New York 196: My Game, My Flavor Mafia (Mafia Win)

[Mirhawk]

Choo choo Podo

Vote: Podo

[Mirhawk]

Maybe. The same effect can be had simply by not placing a vote though. It stands out because he wants it to stand out.

[Mirhawk]

Wow and we're already out of RVS.

Liking transcend here so far actually. UNVOTE:
I also like implosion.

VOTE: Mirhawk
I don't like the way he gave some kinda wiifm shit to push against a lynch. On his secon post on P 3

I said it stands out because he wants it to stand out, not that he was town or scum.

Why do you think me mentioning this is resisting a lynch?

[Mirhawk]

Catching up.

ummm town wouldnt type a post to stand out, that outs attention on them and away from hunting actual scum. ... so it sounds like you are insinuating that he is scum. i think it could be that you are scum pushing against an early mislynch.

Again how am I pushing against a mislynch? Especially if I'm insinuating that he's scum?

You're looking for a reason to call what I said scummy, but I think you can't think of one.

Unvote
Vote: sick

[Mirhawk]

Not sure what you mean by "group dynamics" on wake but that second part is ok

/agree

[Mirhawk]

Mirhawk

———✶

Honestly,

Performer

didn't say he wanted it to stand out. Are you assuming he did?

.

In order to not stand out he could have simply not voted.

He deliberately voted no lynch, what possible reason could he have done that for unless he wanted people to notice it.

In all honesty the more I talk about it the less I like it.

[Mirhawk]

Hey performer, why did you vote for a no lynch? It's obviously not going to stick, so why not just place no vote?

[Mirhawk]

It's just that phrasing. "NOT GET LYNCHED" card. It's like you're implying it's some pocket tactic that he's pulling out to preemptively dodge pressure which is just such an unlikely line of thought.

Not what I was implying, were I implying anything.

I just really don't like the direction of criticism towards the declaration of v/la. Or the fact that when I question you about it you become more vague and say that "his aura is pinging you."

What you like and don't like has no relevant effect on me, sir. I can tell you you're way off though, like Titanic engineer schematic level of wrong.

The biggest problem with the Titanic wasn't that there were engineering problems, but rather that they didn't understand how brittle steel could get at lower temperatures. Well that and it hit a iceberg.

[Mirhawk]

What sort of reaction were you expecting to get?

[Mirhawk]

@performer btw

[Mirhawk]

/dodge

I'll catch up tonight.

[Mirhawk]

Or now.

Ok Sickofit1138 and Zachstralkita both mafia

Why is Zach scum?

[Mirhawk]

Wait nevermind I get it.

Pedit
Or maybe not? I dunno I'm not caught up yet.

[Mirhawk]

Please link us those as well. Nobody seems to know you in here, which is shocking and disturbing.

I know podoboq. I just fished a large game with him. Nothing he's done so far is unusual for him. I have maybe a slight townread on him.

[Mirhawk]

Anyone thinking wake inturrupting Titus is alignment indicative should think again. I'm fairly certain I've seen the two of them argue about this exact thing before.

[Mirhawk]

Seriously you guys need to stop talking so friggin much. I'm never going to catch up at this rate.

[Mirhawk]

At least someone understands.

[Mirhawk]

Because I'm like twenty pages behind I'm probably going to comment on a bunch of stuff that's already been addressed but whatever.

[Mirhawk]

I dunno, 175 could very well be scum looking for an easy target.

I doubt it.

Depending on how you look at it it's maybe advocating a policy lynch a little bit, but I'm not really seeing that as a serious comment.

[Mirhawk]

I find that strange as well, imp saying he is close to townreading you

+1

I agree, it stood out to me as well.

[Mirhawk]

That's not a scum slip any way you slice it

Ja

[Mirhawk]

Zach also looks shitty in that exchange.

[Mirhawk]

Boem is really town.

[Mirhawk]

^^ This is the kind of annoying non-content I am talking about. How does this help town in any plausible way? How is it anything more than noise that is designed to annoy, confuse, take up space, or break up the flow of conversation?

If you are town and you think this is helping, you are the weirdest townie I've ever met and I don't think your loss would be devastating. If you're scum, even better, we can lynch with impunity. I didn't really consider 'lynch the annoying person' as a policy lynch, but I guess it is and I'm happy if that becomes our policy at this point.

This is ironic considering the content of the posts you've made thus far.

Also, policy lynches are stupid.

[Mirhawk]

*tr on shannon intensifies*

For what? The only thing she's done is complain about Zach's posting style.

[Mirhawk]

still wanna rope boem

i'm curious why his slot has so much resistance

Because you've given everyone zero reasons to vote for him.

Also he's town.

[Mirhawk]

yeah well i think your case sucks, and you candy-coated the weak votes that were on him.

[Mirhawk]

@performer btw

@Mir one like Transcend's.

If that's the reaction you were looking for what did you learn form it?

[Mirhawk]

VOTE: Sickofit

Zach is maybe town

That's what I thought, stay in your lane next time.

VOTE: Wake88

Back to this.

Did I at some point miss a reason for this?

As far as I can tell you've only mentioned him three times before him at this point. Once to vote him, once to say your vote was where you wanted it, and once to tell him that you thought he was a smart player (or something like that).

[Mirhawk]

It's how I roll.

At least they're short.

[Mirhawk]

Wait nevermind, I apparently missed it.

[Mirhawk]

My vote is now on shannon who I'm quite sure is scum, but my case on Wake is as follows:

He's basically talking noise. That colored reads list was great. I'm not buying fucking cupcakes though.

#147 is a long(er) post, but all that could have been said in about two or three sentences. I don't like that. I don't like it when it looks like you're saying a lot when you're not actually saying anything.


The crux of the matter anyway, if I'm not mistaken, was that Titus was talking to someone and wanted THAT PERSON to answer her questions rather than Wake doing it. Wake however, jumped on it.

I probably wouldn't scumread somebody for any of these reasons. Even added together they're super weak.

Also Wake typing the occasional essay is not unusual.

[Mirhawk]

@podoboq would prefer not discussing my claim much further. ty

If you didn't want people talking about it perhaps you shouldn't have mentioned it.

[Mirhawk]

If they argued about this exact thing before, what is the exact point of doing it again?

It's not that kind of argument.

[Mirhawk]

Anyone thinking wake inturrupting Titus is alignment indicative should think again. I'm fairly certain I've seen the two of them argue about this exact thing before.

If they argued about this exact thing before, what is the exact point of doing it again?


Anyways, I'm pleased to announce I compiled a reads list diagram by hand so you all could see the thought processes I'm cultivating. Complete with key!

Airick and Varsoon are omitted. AGar is most definitely town, and Performer is neutral/townlean.

Spoiler: Town/Key

Spoiler: Neutral/HBP

Spoiler: Scum

What the balls do the numbers next to the names mean? This looks outrageously fake to me.

[Mirhawk]

What the heck does lamist mean?

Is it an abbreviation?

[Mirhawk]

Right, people just take 15 minutes out of their day to draw paint pictures for no reason.

You did it to look town.

I don't care who says it's unreasonable. Catching scum isn't unreasonable.

I'm with Titus on this. Not to mention the whole thing looks like it was fabricated to look legitimate, why bother adding those numbers to it if they mean nothing to anyone but yourself.

[Mirhawk]

especially after you've given crappy non-credible reads all game.

Are you guys in a club? Because your reads stink too.

[Mirhawk]

Ah thanks.

[Mirhawk]

What do the numbers mean?

[Mirhawk]

I just ate a prod.
Meatworld is too gripping.
Anyway, I'm surprised you think I'm less lynchable than others.
Have they messed up that bad?

I have no idea why I'm townreading Varsoon, but I am.

[Mirhawk]

Makes sense I guess. I was wondering if it was some kind of point system (person has done x scummy things) or something like that.

I'm legit caught up now.

Unvote
Vote: Zach

His reads feel faked to me, both the list he presented and the way he interacts with them.

I'm also not a fan on Transcend. Sick's getting a pass for now as they've pretty much dropped off the radar.

[Mirhawk]

Oh and Shannon too. I would lynch that.

[Mirhawk]

Lol those numbers are very crucial. Very crucial

What do they mean though.

I think you threw them on there to make it look like you have some other reason for your reads. Unless you explain it I'm going to assume it bullshittery.

[Mirhawk]

What point does it serve AGar to " forget" about Titus' scumgame? Sounds like bullshit.

Actually legit I am maybe a little worried about AGar.

I played with him before, but it was a long time ago and I can't remember if he felt this disconnected before.

[Mirhawk]

the chart says lynchability, so most likely on a scale of 1-10 that's how much he would lynch them.

is what i gathered.

formerly townread shannon, makes a naked vote, 10/10 lynch.

titus flails under pressure, better stay away from her, 1/10 lynch.

No no no you don't understand...........

The numbers add up to 100 and that's percentage of lynchability-

But there's not a single person with a percentage higher then ten, that's barely lynchable at all. Not to mention most people are withing a few percent of each other.

Unless you're saying you don't really have any strong reads at all I don't think that's a very good way to measure that.

[Mirhawk]

His alive presence is interfering greatly with my scumhunting activities, not to mention he contributes worthless reads to boot

and no fake dayvigs either dont tease me. if you're in this setup then i greatly implore you to use your ability for the greater good

It would help if you avoided rank hypocrisy Zach. You want me to unvote you because it won't go anywhere but Lapsa unvoted me for the same reason, you object.

The difference is:

1) I'm town

2) You're scum

You like that one? Dunnstral taught me.

Am I to read this as your reads suck because of him? Because that's what I'm getting from it.

Also calling for dayvigs on people who you don't think are scum is terrible fucking play.

[Mirhawk]

3 mafia 3 werewolf and a bunch of town prs

Man there's no reason to suspect that day one. Don't even start.

[Mirhawk]

who da fuck is Painbringer?

The exact words I was thinking, get out of my head.

[Mirhawk]

Hey they were according to MY SCALE the +s are the points TOWARD them being whatever color coded alignment just cause Dunnstral whipped up a nice little graph to fucking trump me like he always does in life doesn't make his methods any less questionable than mine

That is incredibly counter-intuitive. Also, what do the null players on that list have, null points?

[Mirhawk]

Uh no, Mirhawk is overanalyzing the graph and replying to other posts that don't matter

Also I think I'll say Varsoon is mafia rather than insult his play

Nothing in this game exists unless the person who said it intended it to. The reasons behind why there are numbers on those charts in important, as without a rationale for them it isn't clear if the expressed reads are real or not.

I don't have a problem with your chart aside from the fact that I think it's laid out in a difficult to quantify way. I don't like Zach's because it looks like he's saying he used some kind of scoring system to determine where people were on that list, but is opaque about what that scoring system is.

[Mirhawk]

Varsoon is a werewolf

There is absolutely no reason to assume this.

[Mirhawk]

Uh no, Mirhawk is overanalyzing the graph and replying to other posts that don't matter

Also I think I'll say Varsoon is mafia rather than insult his play

Nothing in this game exists unless the person who said it intended it to.

See, I find that curious.

How does your exactly comment reconcile scumslips?

Scum make mistakes too. Just because they meant to make a comment doesn't mean they noticed something was wrong with it.

Most scumslips are garbage anyways. I've literally only ever seen two, and neither was really a real scumslip anyways. I've never seen one that someone "found" actually turn out to be scum.

Do you think that most things people say in this game are not calculated?

[Mirhawk]

Sickofit can get dunn in by a vig or roleblocker or something

Vig list:
Varsoon
Mirhawk
Sickofit

Cop list:
Zach
Shannon
Peregrine
Agar

This makes me want a vig on you.

Also there's no reason a person on either of those lists wouldn't fit on the other.

Except Peregrine, I wouldn't shoot him.

[Mirhawk]

Let me put it this way.

Do you think the numbers on Zach's readslist which he painstakingly scrawled in microsoft paint were there unintentionally?

We're arguing over semantics here. Obviously nobody says anything without meaning to say it, but at the same time people can make mistakes when doing so. I don't thin this is relevant.

[Mirhawk]

What's your current take on Zach? He posts frequently.

My general impression is that I find his demeanor antitown. He also says a lot of things that I just don't see town saying.

I don't like his reads much (though my own opinion of Dunn has gotten much worse over the last few pages), and he flails at everyone who attacks him.

[Mirhawk]

What do you think of him?

[Mirhawk]

Anyone have meta on Titus doing Mason gambits?

No but I'd put my level of trust in that being a legit claim somewhere around fifteen percent.

[Mirhawk]

What's your current take on Zach? He posts frequently.

My general impression is that I find his demeanor antitown. He also says a lot of things that I just don't see town saying.

I don't like his reads much (though my own opinion of Dunn has gotten much worse over the last few pages), and he flails at everyone who attacks him.

You're attacking me, I'm not exactly flailing at you.

I find you flail-y in general.

[Mirhawk]

Anyone have meta on Titus doing Mason gambits?

No but I'd put my level of trust in that being a legit claim somewhere around fifteen percent.

Hrm, strike that. They obviously have daytalk.

[Mirhawk]

Are those questions or comments?

[Mirhawk]

Look at all those pages, nope nope nope.

I'll catch up tomorrow.

[Mirhawk]

Two days, thirty five pages behind. I very much don't even want to read it.

Is there even anything important in that?

Someone just give me a summary.

Who should I vote?

[Mirhawk]

I was there for the masons claim. As far as I'm concerned it's not true until one of them dies. But since scum will have to shoot them sooner or later there isn't much point in testing it just for shits and giggles.

I was scumreading Zach trance dance and Shannon thirty pages ago. Has anything changed with them?

[Mirhawk]

autocorrect.

[Mirhawk]

unvote
Vote shannon

Yeah I'm down with that.

[Mirhawk]

Wait what?

There's a second group of masons?

[Mirhawk]

unvote
Vote shannon

Yeah I'm down with that.

This vote tho

Pretty sweet right?

[Mirhawk]

So you are masons then?

[Mirhawk]

I don't know how likely a scum mason would be to push for the lynch of another mason group. A town flip on another group would make them look worse as it would be a confirmed counterclaim.

I'm thinking maybe one of them town and one of thems gambiting. Not sure which is which though. If they're both gambiting they need to stop, that is not helping.

[Mirhawk]

Two town mason pairs seem extremely unlikely though admittedly not impossible.

[Mirhawk]

UGH

[Mirhawk]

How did you know Dunnstral would go along with the claim/why did you go along with it?

I wanted us to scumhunt and not waste time on bullshit day one.

This literally is the crappiest town group I have seen as town. Ever.

Also I may post a bunch of random other shit until, I've caught up. Deal with it.

[Mirhawk]

A50 is mafia

/Agree, that post sucks.

[Mirhawk]

In particular those two exclamation points. He's so serious about those eleven posts and he wants us to know it.

[Mirhawk]

Wow, zombie lie about me sowing discontent again when the last 40 pages have been me trying to get people to agree on a wagon.

Titus stop trying to pretend your shit don't stink.

You are the direct cause of thirty odd pages of pointless mason bullshit followed by another thirty pages of double mason bullshit.

You were so convinced your opinion was so much better than everyone else's you sucked the game into a pit of pointless discussion for fifteen hundred posts. All this to pull what four votes off someone you had labeled as "dumb town". You'll excuse me saying that it wasn't fucking worth it.

Maybe if you sounded more contrite I wouldn't be so fucking salty about it, but you're so goddamn smug about wasting everyone's time and getting your way it makes me physically ill.

And this is coming from someone who's spent most of the day avoiding having to read this drivel.

[Mirhawk]

/apologize for the profanity.

[Mirhawk]

Good morning.

Oh I see Dunnstral and Titus unclaimed mason roles, that's convenient.
Does anyone want to claim mason with me? We need to get more claims going.
Maybe I claim the Fool later, who knows?

Town.

[Mirhawk]

Alright so I'm not posting as I catch up as that's stupid and time consuming. I am caught up now however (except those pages I didn't read the last time I was behind, but fuck those).

Breaking it down on the masons.

Of the bunch of them Titus is the least likely to be scum. Based on the fact that it was in fact a terrible play to make as either town or scum. I'm not going to go in to why it was a shitty town play as I see that as pretty obvious, but basically as scum she wouldn't have done it purely due to the fact that it would have guaranteed her dying before lylo. She also acknowledged that she knew this aspect of site meta and did it anyways. There was no guarantee that she would have been in a position to back off the claim later (as she did) either, as if she was universally trusted on the claim she would have looked like dogshit after coming back on it. It was a risky move with the sole benefit being drawing attention away from Dunn, but if that was the case then Dunn would likely be scum as well which would link them really tightly together which would also make it a shitty play.

Dunnestal and Zach are in pretty much the exact same boat in regards to how I view the claims. I neither see any reason to scum or townread either of them due to it since there was no way that the claim initiator (Titus and Varsoon) could have known their alignment without being their scumpartners. That being said, if Titus or Varsoon flips scum their mason buddy should be lynched immediately. I view Zach slightly worse then Dunn in this as all their Mason claim accomplished was to make the situation more fucking terrible then it already was.

Varsoon is kinda meh. He doesn't get the towncred like Titus due to how easy it was to retract the claim after how ridiculous the discussion on Titus's became. That being said, I still don't see it as a scumclaim due to the fact that if Titus had been lynched on his counterclaim he would have been dead six ways from Sunday.

On not the masons.

I'm not really feeling Ved, his posts strike me as more newtown then anything else. I could go this way if we have no better options, but eh.

AGar is weird, but I was never able to read him in the past either. I think I recall him not posting a ton, but he's more hostile then I remember. That was a long time ago though. For that matter Podo is way more agressive then the last game I played with him, he was town in that game but I've never seen him as scum so idk.

I still get bad vibes from Shannon, but I'm feeling increasingly lonely on her wagon. Similar feeling from Sick, but I'm not really comfortable with lynching a lurker unless it's down to the wire and we can't agree on anyone else.

Still want to noose Transcendence a bit, but I think I'm the only one.

I feel like I should have a read of some kind on implosion, but I don't.

Pretty much everyone else is null to me.

Oh and Wake is doing that thing he does as town, so I'm thinking he's probably town.

Anyway

Unvote

What do you guys think of Transcendence?

[Mirhawk]

Mirhawk has no opinion on him, and calls him "newtown", when he's been here about a year and has dozens of games he posted in.

I mean in his demeanor, not the number of games he's played. S'fine if you don't see it though, as I said I don't have any particular problems with him if we're not choosing someone better.

[Mirhawk]

Soft PR claim from Ved.

[Mirhawk]

Dunn's openly advocating lynches without claims.

[Mirhawk]

Vote Shannon

I'm sure I don't need to explain why.

Why does nobody thinks Transcendence is worth discussing?

the guy wasn't even at L-1 or L-2 or L-3 or L-4. i enjoy you shifting things to make them look the way you want them to, though.

Back at you, because I was obviously making a serious accusation there. I think I remember why I was scumreading you in the first place.

[Mirhawk]

Sup Beebs.

Things are going on, there is absolutely nothing worth reading previously anyways.

Some people are voting Titus for one of the Mason gambits, some people are voting Vedith for replacing into a lurker slot then generating little content, and some people are voting AGar for reasons I don't really understand. Smart people are voting Shannon because she keeps making gross posts.

[Mirhawk]

Dunn and I disagree about Varsoon but he's not spouting falsehoods.

You guys never discussed Varsoon in the thread, this post made me think you talked about him.

[Mirhawk]

You already thought that, how did this change anything?

[Mirhawk]

wake's obv town

performer's relatively obv town.

sick was probably more "i don't want to read 100 pages of this shit" than "i'm scum and i don't know how to respond to this pressure".

I agree with the first two. If sick replaced out becuase he didn't want to catch up it not alignment indicative though.

Also, what makes Shannon obvtown? She advocated a modkill which she wouldn't have even done if she had actually read the thread, then when called on it she immediately claimed and made an appeal to emotion.

[Mirhawk]

I admittedly might be mistaken about your read on Lapsa.

Is there something specific that makes you think I'm scum with him or do you just think we're both scum? To my knowledge I've barely acknowledged him this game.

[Mirhawk]

@Shannon, When you keep voting town for being anti-town rather than finding scum, you give scum an excuse to do that too, creating a self fulfilling prophecy.

Right now, there's two decent cases. One, Agar's move was terribly scummy and logically inconsistent. Second, Mirhawk "slipped" that masons should have daytalk, likely because he did. Even if you feel overwhelmed to where you cannot give reads, you can at least look those over.

This mason thing is a huge deal because you let it be.

I don't know if I've ever seen masons without daytalk.

also you're making a mess of what I did. I saw a comment from you that made me think you had daytalk after the mason claim which reinforced the claim in my eyes. How is this a slip?

[Mirhawk]

That doesn't matter, in fact that makes it even more suspicious.

I've barely acknowledged several people so that's not really much of a point.

[Mirhawk]

N.B. Shannon is now conf!town to me. The role claim was uncalled for, but it was also out of the blue (i.e. there was not much pressure on her). I wouldn't be lynching here bc -although uninformed- that's a vote that can help us. Scum are informed and will know where to vote 9and it certainly isn't in town's favour), while town -no matter how uninformed- are more likely to hit on scum sooner or later, besides.. if scum want to shoot her she's doing exactly what a VT should be doing, i.e. eating a bullet for the town PRs.

What scumteam would nightkill shannon?

[Mirhawk]

Jesus Christ B don't even. I've had it up to here with millers.

[Mirhawk]

Can someone tell me why AGar is scum?

[Mirhawk]

I don't see the vote switch as scummy, but the who he picked is kinda weird seeing as how he decided to blatantly sheep some other people (including Titus) instead of one of his secondary reads. Given how pissed off at the rest of the town he sounds I wouldn't have expected that.

I find everything before what you quoted pretty genuine.

[Mirhawk]

Yeah I'm not going to vote him.

The points he makes on Titus are pretty legit. I think they're wrong, but I also believe he thinks they're right.

I'm thinking maybe he figured screw this shit I'll just sheep. I don't think he's liable to be sloppy enough as scum to just jump on a bandwagon that doesn't coincide with his reads.

[Mirhawk]

Reads like frustration to me.

[Mirhawk]

I've got to got to go.

[Mirhawk]

So I'm back and all, I got some catching up to do it seems.

[Mirhawk]

So Ièm back I guess. I'm more skimming then anything else at the moment so I'll just list me general thoughts here as I read.

Titus seems shittier then yesterday. Some of the logical leaps near the beginning of the day rub me the wrong way. I was townreading her previously, but maybe less strongly now. I can't say as I find the case on her that wake was pushing about having bad interactions is particularly appealing though.

Dunn keeps saying that there was no scum kill because he got doc'd. The whole premise is bullshit and I expect that he knows there's no way to prove it so why does he keep saying it. Since there's no way he could know this I'm not really liking the implications of this as the only benefit from saying that is to imply that you're town by means of making it look like scum tried to kill you.

I kinda agree with the sentiment that there was likely no scum in most of the latter people on Ved's wagon. But I probably wouldn't apply that to Dunn and Shannon as the writing was on the wall by that point so I could see bussing happening there.

Dunns 3004 is right on the money.

I'm a hot topic, I should probably be around more.

I seem to have scads of townreads but almost no scumreads in comparison. I would vote Shannon or Dunn though.

I'm more or less caught up now, I appear to ow boem some question replies (technical term) but I'm tired and those look like extensive answers so you're going to have to wait till I have time.

Also, I'm going to

Vote: Dunn

because why the hell not.

[Mirhawk]

mirhawk is probably VI after careful thinking

and probably gonna get ml'd

Mirhawk, weren't you the dude that wanted me lynched?

How come you've never thrown a vote my way or something?

First ow.

Second, you were never a particularly strong read. I find you perhaps moderately suspicious for reasons which to be honest I can't remember anymore.

[Mirhawk]

I'm waiting for Mirhawk to show up and explain his vote on shannon along with Vedith and to say more about his Vedith townread. Pointing out that Vedith softed a PR is also shady. There was also

some

shade on Mirhawk D1 if I remember correctly.

I'm scumreading Shannon because not scumreading Shannon requires me to think she's stupid. Her claim was made with pretty much zero pressure at all and was in response to her making a enormously bad play be requesting a modkill on a player. Also if she had read the entire thread at that point she also would have known that there never was a rules violation and that would have know that the mod had already acknowledged that fact. Because she was just skimming the thread instead of reading it I think she just looking for something she could attack someone on rather then looking for scum.

It was a ultra scummy play because it would only have benefited scum to do it as it would net them a free kill. The town benefit on this was what, a kill on Titus? Was she even scumreading Titus? When she caught flak for it she immediately went into full damage control mode and fullclaimed because she knew it was a blatantly opportunistic play.

Regarding Ved I stand by my earlier explanation. I found his demeanor newtown in that he wasn't very confident and wasn't pushing anything very hard. I didn't look at anything other then his join date so I didn't realize he had been in numerous games so I wasn't surprised to see him acting that way.

Why was pointing out a softed PR shady? Softing PR's is gross. I think that anyone who softs a PR without the intent to claim it deserves what they get when someone forces them to talk about it. Both town and scum do it to increase their credibility and it's a gross play from both of them.

[Mirhawk]

I feel like I shouldn't have to explain why Shannons scum.

[Mirhawk]

I have no objection to people screwing around in the game thread as long as they also make on topic posts at the same time.

Yo Wake chill the fuck out real quick if you say " Podo if you're town come in here and help me" that obviously implies if podo doesn't come in here and interact and help you that he is scum in your eyes. That is how those statements work. That is kind of a threat.

What planet are you living on?

Boem

,

Implosion

,

Mirhawk

,

Varsoon

,

shannon

, all of you I am asking to come in here and give your thoughts on.

On what? Podo?

I think he's forgettable. Was more aggressive then I expected from him early on, but mellowed out after that. Nothing he's done makes me think much of anything either way. Are there any particular posts you find questionable because I admit I've skimmed an embarrassing amount of this game.

[Mirhawk]

Why won't you vote for Titus or Dunn considering they blatantly lied to us?

People lie all the time in this game. Sometimes it feels like I can't go a game without being subjected to some stupid reaction test or another.

If you want to think Titus lying about being a Mason is significant you'll have to explain WHY it's significant outside being a lie.

[Mirhawk]

Implosion

&

Mirhawk

.

If either of you are Town, and you believe I am Town, it actually is in your best interest to follow me right now, because your heads are on the line.

What do you think of the people on your wagons? Do you feel they're justified, or do you feel some of them are lying?

If you realize that I'm frustrated obvTown the game can be changed on its head if you follow me and we decide who should be lynched instead.

Join me in a Townbloc with certain other players. You don't have to stay in it, but there's strength in numbers and at the moment either of you or podo can be lynched. If you're Town you don't want that, and if you are a Town PR you don't want to have to claim, either. Join me so all of that can be prevented before it even begins. If you don't join me, then you can deal with your wagon on your own. If you're Town it's the smartest thing you can do, and if you're Scum in this bloc you'll be sorted out eventually.

omfg.

Wake I don't really want your help, you're the town crackpot.

I'm fully aware my head is on the line and it's entirely my own fault. I could have NOT lurked most of the game and solved this problem but I didn't and look where it got me.

What are the requirements for joining your townblock? Thinking Titus is scum? I don't really think Titus is scum so joining you isn't a very attractive prospect to me.

[Mirhawk]

I kinda agree with the sentiment that there was likely no scum in most of the latter people on Ved's wagon. But I probably wouldn't apply that to Dunn and Shannon as the writing was on the wall by that point so I could see bussing happening there.

Read: "I don't want to look weird for disagreeing with this sentiment but I don't want it to prevent me from pushing on Dunn or shannon even though them being town is 40% of what the sentiment says." Saying that he agrees with the sentiment and then essentially discounting it wholesale by saying that 40% of the 5 people that have been called town for it are scum is just posturing.

I thought it was six people. In any case I'm saying I agree that the first three (or four if it was six) are probably town since that was a flashwagon and there is no reason for scum to participate on a sudden flashwagon on their temmate. The last couple are less likely to be town becuase at that point they probably know they're close to a lynch and don't want to be seen being off the wagon or want the towncred it provides.

If you want to assume all of them are town good on you. I'm saying I wouldn't.

[Mirhawk]

is performer close to being lynched? I'm not completely up yet?

[Mirhawk]

I don't even know the case on performer.

[Mirhawk]

Willing to Lynch Titus/Dunnstral Day 2?

(If you're playing please answer with 'Yes' or 'No.')

Wake this is very silly. Titus and Dunnestel aren't a two pack. I would lynch Dunn, but not Titus. I'm curious how that fits into your chart.

[Mirhawk]

And in the fucking parallel universe where Dunn IS scum, why would he claim vigilante when he could have just left it for the town to speculate about Lapsa's death? Is there something hard-coded into your DNA that says dumb gambits like the fake mason claim have to be scum?

For the record claiming a one shot vig and stacking it on top of the nightkill is incredibly convenient if you don't want to ever have to prove your claim.

[Mirhawk]

Is there anything besides meta of that game that you wanna use to validate your point? It's fairly solid right now, it's just some people (myself included but I think Dunn!Town) won't be super convinced if your argument for a slot being town is SOLELY based on meta.

I'm moderately amazed you thought Titus had any sort of reason ASIDE from meta.

[Mirhawk]

OK I found AGar's sparknotes edition on performer. It's pretty convincing, I mean I can't really think of any good reason to not vote performer after reading that.

Is the reason everyone else is voting him because of those points? I'm getting a serious lurker lynch vibe here and I typically avoid those.

[Mirhawk]

I'm open to lynching Performer. His D1 voting actions make me suspicious of him. Why was Vedith not in his lynch pool, then sneaks in an early vote on Vedith and keeps it there? Bussing Vedith is entirely possible. I read scum actions.

I'm not voting for Performer just yet in hopes that we are able to get anything else out of him or any word on a replacement. Again, I don't like lynching someone that doesn't give us much info to work with on D3. I'm going to be out the next few hours and read up. If I still get silence from anything Performer or news on a replacement, I'll vote him.

This is weak as hell.

In the first paragraph he agrees with performer being likely scum, but by the end he doesn't want to go there because he doesn't think we'll get enough information. Follows up with a he'll go there if he has to.

[Mirhawk]

Who the heck is suddenlyarabbit?

[Mirhawk]

I like Shannon and Zach for town btw

Shannon, no thanks.

[Mirhawk]

Hey Mirhawk, what do you think of this performer wagon?

I think AGar has good points on him. Boem's are okay, but not as good. I don't really like the "why the fuck not" attitude that most of the town is using to justify their votes, but then again there isn't really any reason to not go along with AGar as I don't see any of his points on performer as being untrue or worth trying to pick apart. The fact that NOBODY is attempting to do so is a pretty solid indicator of what everyone thinks of his case.

We have lots of time left though and I'm not in any particular hurry to end the day.

What are your thoughts on performer personally? Do you think they're likely to flip scum?

[Mirhawk]

Who the heck is suddenlyarabbit?

here's a little hint:

they sleep in the same bed as you.

shannon's town dude and i have my account on the line on this one.

My imagination is not up to snuff in figuring that out.

Also why do you think Shannons town?

[Mirhawk]

What are your thoughts on performer personally? Do you think they're likely to flip scum?

Yea I'd say pretty good chance of being scum

I also think you have a pretty good chance of being scum, so...

What do you think of implosion?

To be honest nothing really, it might be kinda rude to say so but I viewed him as kinda meh early on and I've been skimming a lot of what he says.

His last post on performer was weak though. Went out of his way to defend performer on the early no lynch part when it wasn't really a part of his case which is odd.

[Mirhawk]

whoops I'm talking about 3559.

[Mirhawk]

They're right next to each other on the same page, you'll be fine.

[Mirhawk]

VOTE: Mirhawk

Is implosion currently voting me?

[Mirhawk]

So you showed up to hard defend performer.... and that's it?

[Mirhawk]

Perhaps he solved your puzzle specifically to obtain your vote....

[Mirhawk]

Re: Mirhawk's recent posts. 3536 completely sidesteps the point I was making. My point was that Mirhawk's post indicated that:

I kinda agree with the sentiment that there was likely no scum in most of the latter people on Ved's wagon.

and yet he did not actually agree with that sentiment, instead calling (being generous to him now) 1/3 of the people in "the latter people on Ved's wagon" scum (note that 1/3 is pretty certainly

much higher

than the proportion of scum in the town as a whole!) Essentially the way he phrased it indicates a cognitive dissonance of wanting to appear to agree with that sentiment, but also wanting to express opinions in direct contradiction to it.

Mu impression was that the view you were espousing was that you thought that the flashwagon on Ved likely didn't come from scum. That I agree with. I don't think that it holds for the entire wagon though.

You seem to take offense over the fact that I don't agree with you completely and I'm not sure why.

Do you think that I don't actually have the opinion that I'm professing here, or do you think I wouldn't point it out?

[Mirhawk]

Yo kras, welcome.

[Mirhawk]

It just feels so waffly, in a scummy way, as though he's trying to leave himself room to go either way on the Performer wagon. Saying he can't see any reason not to vote and then IMMEDIATELY saying he doesn't really want to go for what he perceives as a lurker lynch (which is, in fact, a reason not to vote).

Not being sarcastic. This is 100% what was going on there. You caught me, I wasn't sure if I wanted to vote performer or not.

[Mirhawk]

I don't like how he's voting me but has no reasoning.

And doesn't seem to really have much to say to me

Tharr be reasons mate, you jus have to look for em.

Also I be talkin to yer last page I do. What yer other questions be?

[Mirhawk]

Actually I suppose I could just say it for the whole class.

I think your insistence that you were saved last night by the Doc to be horseshit. You have no reason to think you were covered by any sort of protective role, the role you've claimed wouldn't tell you anything on this either. Despite this you stubbornly insisted no less than three times that you were the scums nightkill victim.

Also the role you've claimed is ultra convenient as there is no way for us to confirm now that you've used your shot as you (conveniently) used it on the only person who there's no way of proving you targeted or not.

I think you tried to claim the doc protection to look more town, and your unprovable claim doesn't make you look any better to me.

[Mirhawk]

And how did you know that?

[Mirhawk]

You thought you killed Lapsa, so you obviously didn't know.

[Mirhawk]

Uh huh.

I believe you. Really.

[Mirhawk]

I do want you lynched?

I'm voting you and just posted the reasons why?

How is that discrediting you?

Are you on crack?

[Mirhawk]

That was a very poorly thought through accusation.

[Mirhawk]

You are very silly. I'm going to bed.

[Mirhawk]

Varsoon I moderately think you're making this up.

The way you're talking makes me think that you don't know who the people in question are and need them to claim to identify them. Which opens up another cats bag on why you need this very specific information to identify two someones who you apparently already know are town. I'm having some trouble with how you came across this information, especially in a way that didn't inform you of who they are.

If you do know their name you should just fucking say if its performer or not.

[Mirhawk]

I don't need you to elaborate, but there is very obviously a will to lynch performer.

You get what I'm saying?

[Mirhawk]

yea kraska's sounding like town

I'm 100% certain that don't lynch me until I read the game is not alignment indicative. Nor is refusing to claim for the same reason. For what reason would you attribute this behavior to town?

[Mirhawk]

Varsoon obviously knows something we don't, so why doesn't Performer/kraska claim and we catch her if she's bullshiting? This way she has time to coordinate and discuss with her teammates if she's scum. Having another scum lynched at this point would be really great and confirming suspect as town and redirection our attention elsewhere wouldn't exactly suck either.

By the same logic we could just have everybody claim for Varsoon to tell us who two townies are. I am explicitly against running people up just for Varsoon to check their claims, If we're running people up its going to be with the intent to lynch or I'll throw a fit.

[Mirhawk]

Nah Wake is town

He is not.

He is. He's always this paranoid and unreasonable as town.

[Mirhawk]

I support the request for Kraska to claim. I don't think Kraska realises quite what the situation is here, if she doesn't claim she's toast as far as I'm concerned.

Would somebody rope this?

[Mirhawk]

Dunn why are you against a Kraska lynch today. What specifically in her demeanor made you think she was a bad lynch?

[Mirhawk]

Except if there isn't a town will to lynch Kras in the first place then there's no reason to run her up.

I obviously don't have a problem with running up a person then getting their claim before deciding what to do, I have a problem with running someone up just to get the claim. Varsoons potential information could be ANYONE in this town. There's not actually that great a chance that it's Kras, so counting on getting that information is foolish.

[Mirhawk]

Varsoon don't even. I understand precisely why you want claims before we lynch. That isn't a problem.

My problem is that some of the people in town (ie, Boem, house, 50) are treating this like some kind of reverse cop that Kras has to pass in order to not be scum.

I actually do think Kras is going to need to claim here, but I don't want this to turn into one of those stupid witchhunts where five more people are run up to get claims so they can be compared against whatever information you have.

[Mirhawk]

I'm mostly blaming Boem on this.

Implosion is just being obtuse, what I'm saying isn't complicated.

[Mirhawk]

Why do I feel like people are trying to explain basic mafia theory to me when I'm not actually confused by anything.

[Mirhawk]

Dunn why are you against a Kraska lynch today. What specifically in her demeanor made you think she was a bad lynch?

Eh

We'll see

Stunning

[Mirhawk]

dont know. would be reading the slot as scum rn if it werent for the claim

This happened a hundred pages into the game nowhere near the pages you've read, has anyone mentioned it in the last fifteen pages?

[Mirhawk]

I'm 100% certain that don't lynch me until I read the game is not alignment indicative. Nor is refusing to claim for the same reason. For what reason would you attribute this behavior to town?

Refusing to claim is very town in my eyes. My reason is posted in 3729. She's not desperate. Scum is desperate.

Dunn why are you against a Kraska lynch today. What specifically in her demeanor made you think she was a bad lynch?

Mirhawk - why are you against a Kraska lynch? Why are you asking Dunn? Last time I checked, your vote is on Dunn.... not Kraska.

If I had subbed into a game where I was being asked to claim and there were 11 days left I would tell people to get bent until I figured out what was going on too. Any alignment, that is absolutely what I would do.

I'm undecided on Kraska. I'm maybe scumreading her a bit now that she's talked a bit, but that might be because I'm annoyed by the fact that she's targeting me to pull heat off herself. On the other hand I could understand this coming from a townie, she subbed into the game and she was under heavy fire so the first thing she did was attack the person who made the most effective case on her and jump on the nearest counterwagon. It's survivalistic as fuck, but I get why she would do it.

Dunn has no reason to suddenly townread Kraska, nobody else seemed to be interested in pointing that out. Dunns done a lot of shady shit this game, but despite that a fairly vocal portion of the town think that he's town. I figure if I keep calling him on shit sooner or later they'll get it.

[Mirhawk]

I've seen scum not claim at L-1 twice

Of course in that game we lynched the town bp after he did not claim and selfvoted so....

Sure, but were they replacements at L1 or L2? I haven't seen that before.

Because everybody's robots and will always do the same thing as everyone else.

The first statement is maybe a little useful in that it highlights that it can be done by either alignment, the second is a pointless rhetorical question.

[Mirhawk]

I think the magical emergence of Mirhawk saved any momentum to lynch Performer/Kraska. Attention was drawn off.

Do you think I did this intentionally?

[Mirhawk]

Regarding Mirhawk: why the heck is he after Dunn? His actions just feel so far removed from the actual happenings of the game
He thinks Titus is town for fake claiming to "save" Dunn, but he doesn't think Dunn is town? Doesn't quite add up
I mean, I can see how people can think Dunn is town and Titus is scum, but I can't see how the logic adds up the other way around?

Come on Kras.

[Mirhawk]

His actions are removed from the game. What would voting you achieve? You claimed, people riled you up for it. You claimed and it's done. Almost 50 also claimed they jailed you
So like
What would a vote on you now achieve? I want to know. Because it seems to me that everything that can be said about this topic has already been said. A wagon on you is not happening and he knows it, so it follows that the vote on you is a pressure vote. But like. Is there something about your claim that still needs clarification or something? What new information would a pressure vote on you prompt at this point?

You're right I should definitely be on one of the leading wagons. Which would you prefer, yours or mine?

I'm on Dunn because I think Dunn's scum and I don't think the odds of you flipping scum are really all that great.

I suppose if I'm limited to only picking already formed wagons I could go with Implosion, but I simply don't feel like it.

[Mirhawk]

Join the wagon on me if you think I'm scum obviously
Or push anyone you think is scum
A dunnstral lynch is not going to happen and you know it

You're saying vote anyone who isn't a single vote wagon, but there is literally only one other game in town.

It feels like you're trying to say vote Implosion without having the word Implosion anywhere in your post.

[Mirhawk]

Any alignment? Really? I believe a pro-town role would do that much more likely then scum. Keep in mind, scum has already lost one player. They don't want to lose two. If you were scum in that situation, you'd tell the town who has you at L1 to get bent? Personally, I think a pro-town person would do that much more then scum would.

The fact that you think that town would do that is also why it would be attractive for scum to do it.

Your entitled to your opinion, but I stand by the position that there is absolutely no way to tell alignment one way or the other from this.

[Mirhawk]

No I think implosion is town why would I ask you to vote implosion
Come on don't you find anyone scummy at this point and want to push them?

I think Dunn is scum, why doesn't he count? I also additionally I think Shannon is scum.

I've laid out clear reasons for why I think both of them are scum, do you think they're wrong? If so why?

I also currently mistrust Boem and Implosion for specific things within the last bunch of pages. I used to have a scumread on Transcend, but I forgot why.

[Mirhawk]

Mirhawk are you telling me the only scum read you have so far is the universally town read person? :/

Are you telling me that you're blind?

We have lots of time, why is it so important to you that I move my vote right now.

Also I asked you what you thought of the cases that I outlined on both Dunn and Shannon.

[Mirhawk]

Oh I missed this post
Dunn already said all he has to say about the claim episode. Your vote is useless because a) no wagon will form on Dunn today b) there is no new info you can get out of pushing Dunn now
If u think shannon or boem are scummy, push them. I don't agree with shannon bc i think she's been set up as convenient lynch bait but push her if you think she's scum
Point is your vote on Dunn has no utility

This is remarkably unimpressive to me considering you managed to not address any of the reasons I'm actually scumreading Dunn and Shannon for.

[Mirhawk]

i honestly did not feel an iota of pressure when i replaced in lol so if you guys would stop claiming im pressuring mirhawk to get the pressure off myself, that would be cool. im genuinely trying to sort mirhawk and so far he's doing a terrible job at making me reconsider a vote on him

If this is how you sort people I doubt you often get very good results.

[Mirhawk]

Suggesting multiball is dumb. Unless there is some kind of evidence otherwise there's no reason to suspect multiple factions.

[Mirhawk]

i cannot fathom any reason that titus would be lynched at all today

[Mirhawk]

His actions are removed from the game. What would voting you achieve? You claimed, people riled you up for it. You claimed and it's done. Almost 50 also claimed they jailed you
So like
What would a vote on you now achieve? I want to know. Because it seems to me that everything that can be said about this topic has already been said. A wagon on you is not happening and he knows it, so it follows that the vote on you is a pressure vote. But like. Is there something about your claim that still needs clarification or something? What new information would a pressure vote on you prompt at this point?

You're right I should definitely be on one of the leading wagons. Which would you prefer, yours or mine?

I'm on Dunn because I think Dunn's scum and I don't think the odds of you flipping scum are really all that great.

I suppose if I'm limited to only picking already formed wagons I could go with Implosion, but I simply don't feel like it.

If Dunn claimed to be vig who shot Lapsa, and you think he's scum, then wont the vig take care of that tonight?

So, combined with my personal belief that Dunn is town, your vote choice....is suspect.

Possibly, I admit I hadn't thought of this. There's no guarantee that there's a vig in the game though, there was only one kill last night after all.

[Mirhawk]

Y'know I'm mystified as to how my wagon even exists. There are eight people voting me and I only really understand the position of one person because only one person has bothered posting anything even resembling a case for why I'm scum. I wish I could pick out one or two of you for being lazy opportunistic sacks of crap, but nope it's all of you.

My case on Dunn has nothing to do with his claim other then the fact that I don't believe it at all. It's that he repeatedly claimed that he had Doc protection when there was no way it happened. How do I know? I'm a even night doctor, I sure as hell didn't save him. Even if I had been able to act last night I wouldn't have targeted him because he was useless and loud all day long yesterday. The only reason he would ever possibly insist that he had protection is to make himself look more towny. Which actual town DOESN'T HAVE TO DO.

Just because Titus calls him town doesn't make it true, she's playing like shit this game and has regulated herself to just sheeping other players instead of actually trying to do anything. He's not obvtown and anyone calling him that needs their eyes checked.

Shannon is scum because she made an outragiously scummy move on day one and knew it. She immediately claimed to try and keep the heat from coming onto her BECAUSE SHE KNEW SHE HAD JUST SCREWED UP. What other possible reason was there to immediately claim? I challenge anyone here to say anything counter to that because that is absolutely one hundred percent what happened.

I usually try not to defend myself from stupid vague cases like this as struggling against them only really gets you into confbias ally and they often fall apart on their own because there's literally no substance to them, but I can't believe the apathy in this town in general. Every person on my wagon seems to be going "Well I don't really have any reason to think Mirhawk is scum, but lets lynch them anyways because scumhunting is hard herr drrr".

You have my claim now so go nuts.

[Mirhawk]

The only person who would ever shoot you is a Vig, so no.

[Mirhawk]

Nurse would also inherit from a scum doc.

That being said B's right, there are too many protectives. I think fifty would have to be scum unless they have some serious power.

I protected podoboq last night.

Vote: fifty

I think our setup is light on full power roles hence the double backups, the half doc, and the one shot vig. I don't think the full JK sense with thus.

[Mirhawk]

It was between him and Zach really. Zach is super town but podoboq hinting a pr and saying he knew about the weak roles means he's probably the first nurse, so I went for him.

The other claimed PR's are a backup nurse and a one shot vig. Fiftys probably scum so he wasn't in the running for me

Also I'm now thinking that maybe Dunn Is town after all, the one shot vig makes sense thematically with the other PR's.

Pedit:

Shit

[Mirhawk]

This further reinforces me thinking that fifty is scum though.

[Mirhawk]

I started thinking about it after peregrines flip, so yeah overnight.

[Mirhawk]

Wakes not a bomb, he's full of shit.

If he was actually a bomb he would have claimed it right from the start to avoid the possibility of killing town PR's.

Or are bombs the ones that only go off on kill attempts, I can't remember.

[Mirhawk]

In that case he probably never should have said it. Which means he shitting us. I don't think it was a serious claim.

I protected Titus night one. It was a toss up between her and wake.

[Mirhawk]

Jesus Christ.



I think I care not to.

Totally suckered me in.

[Mirhawk]

Uuuuuuugggggghhhhhh

[Mirhawk]

I mean, you've caught me (cleverly) in your trap.

I'm a one shot lynch proof serial killer.

[Mirhawk]

True story.

[Mirhawk]

Total props to A50 on that, I didn't think he was going to pull it off. But every day he managed to somehow bluff his way through it.

Sorry I wasn't more help fifty, I'm moderately embarrassed that I couldn't keep my shit straight.

Good game everyone.

[Mirhawk]

@Titus
Actually the reason we shot you was to break up the you/zach/dunn triangle you guys had going. It had to be done before the game got small enough that you guys were a significant voting block.