New York 196: My Game, My Flavor Mafia (Mafia Win)
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- Varsoon
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Varsoon Scatman
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I HAVEN'T READ ANYTHING.
WHAT'S UP MY N-WORDS?
DON'T WORRY, I'M TOWN
I'VE GOT YOUR BACK.- Varsoon
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Varsoon Scatman
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Not yet.
I'm considering just hopping on whatever's popular and seeing where that tides us.- Varsoon
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I just ate a prod.
Meatworld is too gripping.
Anyway, I'm surprised you think I'm less lynchable than others.
Have they messed up that bad?- Varsoon
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Some people post a lot.
What about the content of those posts don't you like?- Varsoon
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And so what does that even mean?
Feels like you're just doing busywork here. I don't know.- Varsoon
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I'm glad that when I ask you to generate constructive reasons for why you are scumreading people, all you conjure up is inconclusive rubbish.In post 620, Dunnstral wrote:Have you read the actual game or are you going to harp on me over dumb things
It gives me a lot of confidence in your slot when I tell you that you look like you're just doing busywork and your response is abrasive offense rather than actually following through with your listless observations.
VOTE: Dunnstral
Scum found, GG ez.- Varsoon
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You're going to have to give more more than "That is a bad vote."
When I directly interact with a player and all they can offer is posturing, garbage, and no concrete rationale for their speculation, I get wary. When confronted with this reality, Dunnscum decided to assault me rather than support their cases.
Sorry not sorry. My vote stays. You rubes probably won't vote there because you're too weak.- Varsoon
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Like, Titus, you have a bad habit of chainsawing your allies.
I don't know if that makes you scum or if you have info I'm not privvy to, but it does bolster my conviction here.- Varsoon
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@Zach: If you let players hide behind a veneer of trash anti-town play, they'll do it as scum as much as they do it as town--if not moreso.- Varsoon
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Fixed that for you.In post 752, Dunnstral wrote:
Also I think I'll say Varsoon is mafia rather than engage with his play
It's not surprising that you've gone from reading me as town to wanting me dead and scumreading me the second that I call you out on your absolute trash play. How anyone thinks you're town when all you're doing is posturing and flexing like it is beyond me. Stop trying to direct town actions and start explaining your reads.
Please, get lynched.
VOTE: Dunnstral- Varsoon
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Varsoon Scatman
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Is Dunnstral still campaigning against me?
It's been 20 pages (which I haven't had the time to read yet--modding Bloodborne is almost a full-time job).
Even taking potshots at my jokes. Harsh stuff.- Varsoon
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I'll fight you, m8.
Not that it matters, since I swooped in, declared you scum, and you've been bent out of shape for half of the pages of content this game has so far.- Varsoon
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Tell me why you think so?
- Varsoon
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Is your claimed mason partner Titus?In post 1278, Dunnstral wrote:Hey Varsoon that's prety neat, I'm sure you are scumreading my claimed mason partner as well, right?- Varsoon
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I'mma be real with you:
Only a few pages out of the 52.
I skipped about 20 of 'em.
You can probably figure out which 20.
I thought
"Oh I can wing it."
I clearly could not wing it.
So back up your truck and explain it to me, man.- Varsoon
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Varsoon Scatman
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So when I came in and was like
"Lol so obvious chainsawing"
You claimed masons
with fuckin' Titus
why?
Oh wait are you doing a bit?
I should commit if we're doing a bit.
Uh act like these last lines aren't here so you can jerk me around if we're doing a bit.- Varsoon
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Varsoon Scatman
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The annoying thing is that I'm pretty much compelled to agree with you.In post 1316, Zachstralkita wrote:Because they claimed mason. It's a clusterfuck to get into when you start doubting the legitimacy of said claim, we can get into that another day.
As little as I like Dunn AND Titus' play, the Mason claim ensures that the weaklings on this site would never lynch them without an equally strong role-claim contesting theirs. It's lame, but people like to play it painfully safe.- Varsoon
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@Performer: PRs are important, but the site-meta trends to favoring mechanics far heavier than rhetoric, so much so that the rhetoric of the game often becomes superseded by the mechanics. Claiming masons only renders any sort of leverage to the slots because people think the mechanical advantage of (possible) masons is stronger than any rhetoric that could be thrown down. Even if they are lying about being masons, the fear that we'd lose such a mechanical advantage keeps players from voting there, even when the claimed masons are bringing garbage to the table, rhetorically.
Ultimately, it's weak play. Players should be judged first and foremost for what they bring to the table for town. Dunnstral and Titus have given this town nothing. The Masons claim was awkward and only came out after I suggested it, making me feel as though it was conjured after-the-fact rather than a genuine truth of the game.
If you allow players leverage based solely on the claimed mechanical efficiency of their roles, you will lose any well-built setup.
That isn't to say that mechanical efficiency allowing a player rhetorical leverage has no place in Mafia. If a player can prove their role, or if their claim holds up under rhetorical scrutiny, then, sure, it's all gravy. Even then, a well balanced setup punishes players for claiming outright and rewards players for playing smart with their roles.
I think we should lynch Dunnstral today. If Dunnstral flips as a Mason, we'll know Titus is cleared, which, sure, will inform the nightkill, but it gives us a confirmed town to work with unless scum want to waste a shot killing off already-useless-so-far Titus. On the flip side, if Dunnstral flips anything but Mason, we hit a jackpot.
Think of it this way. We're playing poker. Dunnstral and Titus just went all in on the first hand. Are you going to fold, or will you meet their gambit and call?
I, for one, am a gambling man. I know what I've got up my sleeves, and I'm confident they're bluffing.- Varsoon
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Yeah, so let's lynch Dunnstral so we can be done with this day.In post 1333, Zachstralkita wrote:For all the hype leading up to it, Dunnstral's "case" on Varsoon was utterly shit.- Varsoon
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Well, no one, but that's because we haven't counter-claimed masons yet.- Varsoon
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I actually think we could get a Dunnstral Wagon to lynch if we campaigned hard enough, though.
For real, for real.- Varsoon
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Oh, please, if that's a wall, then I've built some truly monumental towers in my day.In post 1338, Performer wrote:...going to read Varsoon's wall.- Varsoon
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I was REALLY hoping we wouldn't have to out like this.In post 1340, Zachstralkita wrote:In post 1337, Varsoon wrote:Well, no one, but that's because we haven't counter-claimed masons yet.
I think we can't sidestep this any further, mason buddy.
I crumbed it in my first post, too. :/- Varsoon
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I've got your 'back' is the clue to look at things from back to front.In post 91, Varsoon wrote:I HAVEN'T READ ANYTHING.
WHAT'S UP MY N-WORDS?
DON'T WORRY, I'M TOWN
I'VE GOT YOUR BACK.
What's up my N-words is actually referencing Mason, because if read from back to front, it's Nosam.
Furthermore, in my last game as a Mason (Cohen Brothers Mafia), I was not town despite being in a Masonry.
That's why I said "Don't worry, I'm town" here.
Why would I make such a post without reading anything?
What point does it serve?
Purely role-crumbing.- Varsoon
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When I find scum, I'll tunnel 'em. Fuck me, right?
Also, this implosion guy is exactly the kind of rube that Titus and Dunnstral are playing like a fiddle.
So, are you going to let every scum who takes a high-risk, barely-ever-seen gambit fool you? Way to play right into their hand. You're exactly the kind of player I'd love to play against as scum.In post 1349, implosion wrote: -The odds of it being a scum gambit are so horrifically low. The risk/reward of claiming masons on d1 as scum is absolutely terrible.
Not at all. If town, the nature of their claimed roles (Masons) informs the nightkill by letting the scum team know that they are not the powerful night action PRs (such as cop, doc, etc.) and so their chances of being killed are VERY low, especially because their play isn't helping town at all. Stack that on top of the fact that there is already seeded doubt about their roles and they've got a clear check to cash all the way to the LYLO line. This plays heavily into their favor as scum. We have to lynch them now or, otherwise, we'll never know outside of a cop clear or vig kill.In post 1349, implosion wrote: -They are outed as power roles; they are, therefore, likely to be killed at night, meaning we don't have to try to sort them at all.
It's no miracle, first of all.In post 1349, implosion wrote: -If by some miracle they are scum, they will keep surviving nights and they will become more and more likely scum candidates as the days go by, allowing us much more confidence in sorting them later
Second off, no. You'll just continue to conf-bias them as Masons and lose for it.
If they are both scum, our chances of hitting scum with a lynch plummet significantly. Also, this logic is flawed, because other scum being lynched does not make their claim more or less valid at all.In post 1349, implosion wrote: -If we lynch other scum in that time, then the more scum we lynch, the more unlikely the masons are to be lying, making it easier to sort them later
You're assuming a massclaim will happen AND you're assuming that you can outguess the setup/mod. Garbage.In post 1349, implosion wrote: -At massclaim, if there is a huge abundance of power being claimed, they also become easier to sort then
Yes, which makes it an effective gambit.In post 1349, implosion wrote: I'd like to note that byfarthe most important of these points is the first; the rest are just supplementary to it. There are so many reasons that claiming masons on day one has astronomically higher risk than reward for scum.
I just counter-claimed masons.
So who is scum, dickhole?
You only get to be wrong once.- Varsoon
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I've just read your words and assessed that they're wrong.In post 1368, implosion wrote:it's literally like before you've read the words in my post, you assume that what i've written is scum motivated and then apply that to what i've written
zach if you are town for fuck's sake have some intellectual honesty and try to fucking understand the points i'm making
Thanks for doubtcasting though, because insisting on a narrative where a player is scum-biasing you out the gate does wonders for town-posturing.
:3
I actually do think you're town, though, implosion.- Varsoon
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Show me another game where you lynched claimed masons, please.In post 1371, implosion wrote:
as i have explained 6-7 times in the past page.varsoon wrote:So, are you going to let every scum who takes a high-risk, barely-ever-seen gambit fool you? Way to play right into their hand. You're exactly the kind of player I'd love to play against as scum.
If we lynch them on day four
they haven't fooled us!
they just delayed their lynches
and we don't care about that
because dead scum is dead scum.- Varsoon
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Oh man it's like you're doing the exact same thing I did where I was like "Guys Dunnstral and Titus aren't actually claiming masons, don't be dumb."In post 1377, Dunnstral wrote:They're not actually claiming masons guys, don't be dumb
How does it feel to be on the other end of the shit?
More Dunnstral votes please.- Varsoon
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lol right here you rube
In post 306, Dunnstral wrote:
Alright let me break this one down for youIn post 297, Almost50 wrote:
OK, who is NOT mafia in this game? Cuz you've voted or pointed the FoS on almost everything that moves thus far.In post 180, Dunnstral wrote:ok Zach mafia with either Shannon or Transcend
[Titus, Lapsa]
[Boem_u_dusi, implosion, Wake88]
[Nosferatu, Performer, Varsoon, Mirhawk]
[Airick10, Agar, podoboq, PeregrineV, shannon]
[Transcend, Almost50]
[Zachstralkita, Sickofit1138]In post 604, Dunnstral wrote:- Varsoon
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No, you're lynched today.In post 1483, Dunnstral wrote:Like I'm dead tonight anyway
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I'm not lying. Zach and I are masons.In post 1587, podoboq wrote:
If they come back and admit that, I'll fucking reevaluate, but until then, I'm going to take their claim at face value.In post 1586, Dunnstral wrote:Varsoon and Zach are fakeclaiming masons
Dunnstral and Titus are fake-claiming masons and Dunnstral is trying to lie and say that I'm fake-claiming as a mason because we caught them.
Dude, this is the worst kind of reaction test that you could try out.In post 1684, Zachstralkita wrote:Nah I retract, sorry Varsoon I think they might actually be masons so I made a judgement call.
Now no one will believe the truth (that we are masons) because you wanted to bait reactions by retreating the claim.
What'd you even get out of that?
Gah, I wish we had daychat- Varsoon
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@Zach: BECAUSE IT'S DUMB AND UNDERMINES THE WHOLE POINT OF COUNTERCLAIMING IN THE FIRST PLACE- Varsoon
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Like, Dunnstral and Titus claim Masons when I am a Mason
I tried to expose Dunnstral as scum.
Dunnstral plays the most obv-scum game in response.
No one votes Dunnstral.
Yeah I'm gonna claim and let town see where I'm coming from.
Going back on that as a reaction test just weakens that push to lynch Dunnscum, which is practically confirmed from my PoV- Varsoon
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Yeah.In post 1758, Mirhawk wrote:So you are masons then?
Ultimately, it comes down to who you're gonna trust:
A pair who claimed masons under pressure
or
A dude who counterclaimed masons when it was clear that the claimed mason wasn't going to be lynched otherwise
What's it gonna be?- Varsoon
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Titus, you're doing that thing you do as scum where you try to tie an opponent down to another player everyone thinks is scum.
Correlation does not imply causation.
@Dunnstral: Isn't the fact you are familiar with the wiki for Masons imply that you're there a lot?- Varsoon
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Man, I was about to fashion this defense for my partner arguing that first time players of a role often check the wiki to see suggested strategies and linked games with notable uses of the role.
Then I realized that Dunnstral could just say that's why he's been on the wiki so much.- Varsoon
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In post 1829, Titus wrote:We aren't masons. I fake claimed to save Dunn because he is frankly obvtown but crappy and needs to learn to play with others.
I don't regret it.
Now if there wasn't a double fucking standard regarding claims, I would be dead N1, scum would be lynched and ALL would be sorted.
Yet this group cannot do shit.
OOOOOH WHAM
BAM
THANK YOU MA'AAAAAM- Varsoon
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Also I was going to propose a way to prove you have daychat through use of a code, although that wouldn't prove you as masons, just as daychatters. :3
See, what you do is:
Post the solution for the codex in the daychat.
Then one player writes entirely in code for a short sentence in the thread.
If the other player can't immediately decipher it publicly, then they don't have daychat.- Varsoon
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I'm bubbling with delightedness.In post 1838, Titus wrote:Dunn I am never reclaiming. This has gone on long enough. We know they are lying to but they will keep up their bullshit claim just to lynch you.
And questions!
How did you know Dunnstral would go along with the claim/why did you go along with it?
Do you have a role connection that allowed that leverage/bond so that it wasn't such a test-of-faith?
What do you think of Dunnstral?
Etc
etc- Varsoon
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To be fair, Titus, I did set you up for all'a dat.
Although this does bring me back to why you were chainsawing Dunnstral in the first place.- Varsoon
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That was like 30 pages of catchup I had to do and it was all for a failed Titus wagon that sputtered out when she claims VT?
Wat?
C'mon, you lamers.
You have two players who have admitted to lying about being masons and you're giving them both passes for it? Why?
Also, since I don't get to post enough of 'em in my Bloodborne game:
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VOTE: Titus
If only because absolutely no one has any love for my Dunnstral wagon.
Fuck like
You morons, I CALLED OUT SOMEONE FAKE-CLAIMING MASONS, CAUGHT THEM, AND EXPOSED HOW ANTI-TOWN THEY WERE AND YOU'RE STILL TOWNREADING THEM!?!
We've already lost before we've begun.- Varsoon
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I'm actually with AGar on this one.
Outside of Titus/Dunnstral? My reads are shit, mate. I've not been focusing on things outside of Titus/Dunnstral.
I think it's bothersome how much resistance there is to getting any wagon beyond six votes in this game, though.
Even players who look absolutely scummy (Dunnstral, Titus, Vedith, Sickofit) just have wagons that get stalled out.
The amount of vote-hoping and vote-holding that's happening bothers me.
We're 100 pages in. We shouldn't have six minor 1-or-2 vote wagons.
We need to consolidate and focus.- Varsoon
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I'm just going to stay in park.
I'm hungry.
Who wants to buy me a pizza?- Varsoon
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I'm here but not really.
Also
Vedith scum flip is best flip.
Let's find Vedith buddies.- Varsoon
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In post 2815, Wake1 wrote:
That won't cut it any more.In post 2813, Varsoon wrote:I'm here but not really.
You're also in my lynchpool.In post 2857, Wake1 wrote:Varsoon's constant lack of presence and engagement has me wondering.
Yeah it's fucked almost like I'm hardly posting anywhere on the whole site and like I delayed my own modded game's night phase 48 hours and like I've been on V/LA up to this point.
Almost like I'm real busy in the real world doing stuff.
Take my word for it, I'm town.
OR don't take my word for it, whatever.- Varsoon
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...for what, exactly?
I've got no leads besides still kinda wanting a lynch on Titus.
Dunny can be fine for now.
Oh, also, I can confirm one player as town, by the way, but only after a certain condition is met.
I don't know if that helps. - Varsoon
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