Mini 1805 [C'est fini!]

[Robbnva]

Had a massive game of enine meenie miney moe to decide this one.

vote: Akigoku

[Robbnva]

Toss up between Maggiaone's strawberry cheesecake or this Key lime pie from the outer banks. Can't decide which is better though

[Robbnva]

ladhst

[Robbnva]

Cant tell if creature is being serious or naw.

ladhst

vote this please

Truth hurts?

Why are you trying so hard?

[Robbnva]

Look at dwlee he's so town

I'm not scum but I definitely have issues with your play so far so you're definitely on my watch list.

[Robbnva]

Yes Rvs is definitely over but people should be voting who they think is scum. Since I'm not scum not have I done anything remotely scummy it would be just plain stupid to vote me but hey whatever floats your boat

[Robbnva]

*nor

[Robbnva]

Don't have any scum reads atm.

[Robbnva]

Early townreads on Dwlee99 and Derek12.

Why?

[Robbnva]

lol that's not AI cause that's easily faked. Try again?

[Robbnva]

Your inexperienced. I get it ok. Carry on

Just an FYI what they are doing absolutely can be faked quite easily.

[Robbnva]

Your inexperienced.

lol

We completed almost the same number of games.

I've got like 6 or 7 different accounts on this site.

If you can't see how it's easy to fake pushes early game then yes you are absolutely inexperienced. I've faked pushes late game as scum so early game is a breeze

[Robbnva]

but why are you trying to flaw my reads saying it can easily be faked? I can't have early townreads anymore?

If you are town I'm trying to prevent you from doing something stupid. Town reading anyone this early is a mistake imo. Especially when the reason for your town reads are things easily faked.

[Robbnva]

Meh still weird to me

[Robbnva]

Can't determine if this activity is town or not. It's weird to me that anyone can have a page 2 town read though.

[Robbnva]

Nothing else to talk about atm so why not. Hopefully it'll help me figure you out

[Robbnva]

I'm not usually a fan of rqs but it doesn't really bother me.

[Robbnva]

VOTE: Unvote Well no thoughts, just waiting for some people to present an arguement, and for more posts

There's serious votes on me and you don't have thoughts on that?

[Robbnva]

Also a serious vote on creature.

Btw that post about creature I agree with.

[Robbnva]

How many games exactly do you have across all of your alts, robbnva?

About 135 give or take a couple.

[Robbnva]

So Robbnva agrees we are out of rvs yet..

1. Has trashed those with town reads
   
2. Has no scum reads

nice

Nobody really should have either at this point. It's too early to get strong reads

[Robbnva]

So you dont have any reads on

anyone

?
Not even

a little

Where do you get that idea? Pretty sure I've stated mild suspicion on 2 people already.

[Robbnva]

Everytime someone says someone is town read for *blank* I might as well say that it could be "easily faked".

Here's the thing. Most players see actions like being pro-active as a town tell. Smart scum notice these things and adapt because the point of the game as scum is to be town read as best as they can.

That's why some scum like to end Rvs as soon as possible because that's usually considered a town tell and people who prolong it are usually looked at suspicious.

Trying to start an Rvs wagon on somebody is easily the most common way to end Rvs. Now I can't say I've ever used that myself, I have seen scum do it.

People always lecture me at "looking at motives" and imo those early pushes didn't feel natural to me, they felt forced in an attempt the end Rvs instead of letting it progress naturally. That's why I don't see those actions as necessary town motivated. I also question people who do because it should be questioned.

Now back to creature. The post he made about not going to vote them for the remainder of the game rubbed me the wrong way. Nobody was accusing him of that and it felt out of place. If he were town I would think he would be more confident in his own opinions and wouldn't be rattled by somebody else's.

[Robbnva]

So Robbnva agrees we are out of rvs yet..

1. Has trashed those with town reads
   
2. Has no scum reads

nice

Nobody really should have either at this point. It's too early to get strong reads

Right I have no town reads and no scum reads but idk why you think that means I have no reads at all when I've said this

I definitely have issues with your play so far so you're definitely on my watch list.

And this

Well ok I didn't really say I am mildly suspicious of creature my questioning him and agreeing with smitherines post is inferring I'm keeping an eye on him also.


I wouldn't call mild suspicion a scum read

[Robbnva]

I also want your response to what I was saying in 66

I was actually responding to some of it as you were posting. Lmk if you need me to respond to anything else.

you can't just trash someone's reads and defend yourself. You need valid points on why so and so is not scum or town

1. Actually I can do whatever I want.
2. As already stated I don't have strong town or scum reads so not sure if that was meant for me or not.

[Robbnva]

Guess we will agree to disagree cause mild suspicion just means they are on my radar but haven't seen enough to develop a scum read and rightfully so. Nobody has done anything this game that you can point to and say OMG he's totally scum.

[Robbnva]

Look at dwlee he's so town

[Robbnva]

Post 28 was a direct response to post 27

[Robbnva]

oh. Why are you coming up with acronyms how am I supposed to figure that out

1. All I did was modify LAMIST which is a known acronym in this site.
2. Because I can do whatever I want

[Robbnva]

Yea I like to argue and it's not alignment indicative. I'm trying to not play argumentative and since that's not going so well I'm
Going to bed.

Gotta tell myself to stay calm, it's just a game lol

P.edit? Really? I've seen it quite a few times. :shrug:

[Robbnva]

lol

I don't mind your vote actually. I really kind of want everyone here posting before I start voting. I'm also kind of
Annoyed about something right now but can't really explain what or why atm

[Robbnva]

I'll ask you a question before my phone dies. What's your thoughts of atm who I basically guided him towards things he could give an opinion on and instead of doing that just started questioning me.

[Robbnva]

Well other than a slight(EMPASIS ON SLIGHT) scum read on Robb, I can't think on who to vote for

I was going to vote for atm based on Page 3 but his recent posts are much better, so this is where I'm at right now.

They are? Which ones cause I haven't seen any plus I basically asked his opinions on things and he ignored the request.

[Robbnva]

vote: atm

[Robbnva]

Aaaaaand they're mostly shitposting, w-w-wow.

Not sure how you can say it's mostly shit posting. Lots of game discussion has taken place in the past 2/3 pages.
What's your opinion on these discussions? The serious votes on me, the serious vote on creature, the refusal to give opinions on those 2 things by atm?

Any thoughts at all?

[Robbnva]

Also why the vote on stelo?

[Robbnva]

As far as I see it, we're still in RVS, I voted one of the two people who haven't posted yet.

game was out of rvs by page 2

[Robbnva]

I don't feel safe saying Robbnva is town yet, if he says he's experienced, why would he bring this drama over my townreads?

Questioning something suspicious is creating drama?

So Robbnva agrees we are out of rvs yet..

1. Has trashed those with town reads
   
2. Has no scum reads

nice

Nobody really should have either at this point. It's too early to get strong reads

Exactly, where I said I have strong townreads?

not sure why you thought I was talking about you there but I wasn't.

[Robbnva]

And why town shouldn't try to be pro-active too?

i never said that. Are you going to basically try to twist everything I say?

Page 1, anyone trying to be proactive is going to look fake to me because it's somebody trying to make something out of nothing instead of letting the game progress naturally. That's why his actions are suspicious to me.

And town don't?

Imo town like to let things develop naturally and not force things.

You're right.

Of course I am

The point is that, if you're town, you should try to contribute even early

Going to disagree with you here.

Wait, your intention was to rattle me?

Not at all which is why I was surprised you got rattled.

[Robbnva]

Well if you remember I did question you in a way to get you to post more opinions. That's how it started because you just gave an opinion without any explanation for it. I asked you to explain how you arrived at your opinion.

After you explained yourself, I responded giving you my opinion. That's not trying to flaw your opinion, it's me disagreeing with you.

So to say I'm trying to discourage people giving opinions is completely off base because i have asked at least 4 different people questions trying to get them to give their opinions, with you being one of them.

[Robbnva]

I'll ask you a question before my phone dies. What's your thoughts of atm who I basically guided him towards things he could give an opinion on and instead of doing that just started questioning me.

Dwlee, don't think you ever answered this

[Robbnva]

atm487 and F-oh-ex are looking town for me.

atm487 looks different from his game as scum, here he's actually pushing his reads.

F-oh-ex's posts seemed to have a sort of scum hunting rather than scum trying to make noise.

I don't like these reads at all and I had to question if we were even reading the same game.

I don't see atm "pushing his reads" because he doesn't really have any by his own admmission. He has one very slight read and that's on me but he doesn't explain why and he isn't even confident enough to vote me. Of course i'm biased here but I find it interesting that his only read happens to be on the person who was under the most scrutiny at the time and the fact that he avoided giving reads when people were trying to get them from him doesn't look pro-town at all.

as for f-oh ex, please link these posts you see as scum hunting because post 124 definitely looks like a noise post to me

p.edit - thank you

[Robbnva]

More votes on Smithereens would be good.

are you trying to start a wagon or just get more out of them? (seeing as they only have 2 posts and i frankly can't get enough from that to place a legitimate vote)

agree with this somewhat, however the post he made about creature I agreed with so I don't see what creature's issue is unless it's omgus.

[Robbnva]

He did? Oh I missed that post somehow. I'll have to read it later

[Robbnva]

So scum would coordinate around my issues when it would be easier to attack/discredit me?

[Robbnva]

Just a heads up. Going to be limited for a day or so. Got some sort of allergic reaction and my right eye has basically swollen shut. Once I'm better I'll be back posting again.

[Robbnva]

Yeah I've been sick the past couple of days. Had some sort of weird reaction and my eye swoled shut. Now I've got a rash all I've my arms and legs. Doctor thinks I somehow got poison ivy in my eye.

Il try and catchup soonish. I thought about replacing out cause that's easier than catching up but I'm getting bored so I'll suck it up. Gonna pop some Benadryl and take a nap and I'll read up starting tonight

[Robbnva]

OK, now even I'm confused by this whole ordeal, which may or may not has been your intention.
I put the question so I could follow it up with "mine is vanilla ice cream", but you guys started a wagon on me while I was away and I had to claim before answering it.
I think Dwlee got it right.

You made multiple posts before a wagon formed on you though. I also don't understand why you wouldn't ask the question and give your own answer first.

I still don't understand why a vt would need to crumb vt to begin with.

[Robbnva]

Which sounds easier: Pushing a (presumably) strong player for not liking early town reads, or agreeing with the strong player in not liking early town reads in order to push a lynch through?

That's assuming I'm a presumably strong player. Imo it would have been easier for scum to attack me instead of defend me

[Robbnva]

Dwlee and Robbnva's banter, to me, implies some sort of familiarity between the two

What makes you think that?

[Robbnva]

But smitherines made the vote on creature before I said how many games I've played

[Robbnva]

People think you voted creature to buddy me

I personally don't think that's the case especially since you have made great points about creature. These recent ones are also good. The unvote of egg man is weird. The reason he doesn't scum read him is also weird and there was no vt crumb so that imo is just a blatant lie.

I'd rather lynch creature but if people don't go there i don't really have an issue lynching egg man. We have plenty of time though so no need to rush an egg man lynch. Especially since I still need to catch up

[Robbnva]

Buddy me because I wasn't voting creature. I was showing suspicion of him though.

[Robbnva]

Yes creature was the one who brought it up. It was basically the reason for voting you

[Robbnva]

atm487 and F-oh-ex are looking town for me.

atm487 looks different from his game as scum, here he's actually pushing his reads.

F-oh-ex's posts seemed to have a sort of scum hunting rather than scum trying to make noise.

I agree with these two points. ATM is acting differently from the last game I played with him.

Since you agree can you do the same that I asked creature? Links to the posts f-oh-ex made that look like scum hunting?

Also as I stated earlier atm really didn't give any reads, rather avoided giving opinions imo. The only thing he gave was a very slight read on me and he wasn't even pushing me

[Robbnva]

So far I feel that this is creature's town game. His posts feel to me to be made in a manner scum wouldn't, which from my limited experience is more hesitant to start a wagon and draw attention to themselves.

Creature's vote on smitherines was a direct response to smitherines vote on him. At that point creature is being reactive rather than proactive which you imply here. How does that change your opinion?

[Robbnva]

Smithereen's posts do seem scummy but two posts isn't enough for me to make a decision on.

Smitherines has probably made the better posts up until this point so I'd love you to point out which ones you find scummy and explain why

[Robbnva]

I find it pretty opportunistic the way you straight supported Robbnva at "can be easily faked" (see the bolded argument).

How is it opportunistic exactly?

[Robbnva]

Post 5 is an RQS that isn't even game-related.

Post 36 looks like scum trying to make Dwlee townread him.

Post 165 has no conclusion.

Post 188 sounds like pure noise/scum questioning.

So do you no longer agree with your original assment of egg? If no please show me which posts he made that made you change your mind. Cause I'm not buying your read changed because of the number of people voting him or that you supposedly think he crumbed vt (which he didn't)

[Robbnva]

I just realized I forgot that ending. Thanks Creature
What I was going to say was, F-oh-ex, Robb, and Dragon were the only ones to respond to my question.
On 188, I wanted to make a post to show I was reading, but I wasn't really sure what to say, so. Uh.
If it helps discussion any, right now I townread Dwlee, Dragon, and Creature.
Dwlee, because of the back-and-forth between him and Robb and his responses (they left me with a good feeling)
Dragon, because of gut mostly
and Creature, because in the other game I played with it (where it was mafioso) it didn't really post a lot and mostly lurked, and today it's been one of the most active players.

And lastly before I take a break. This would have been a great time to answer your own question since you made a point to mention who had answered already. You had 2 votes on you so that wasn't a wagon on you yet.

Why did you not answer it here? Or in the post (156?) that creature called out as not having a conclusion? Both would have been great times to answer.

[Robbnva]

But he didn't crumb vt and that doesn't even look like an attempt to crumb one

[Robbnva]

"I wanted to make a post to show I was reading, but I wasn't really sure what to say, so. Uh."

Does that really come from somebody who is town? It's easy for town to make posts that show they are reading, if they are actually reading

[Robbnva]

PEDIT: VT. It's why I did the RQS: "vanilla" ice cream

General question: what's your favorite dessert?

But the first time he mentions vanilla is when he claims vt

Asking favorite deserts doesn't support that he was going to crumb VT

[Robbnva]

If anything VTs should try and give off a vibe they are a pr rather they are a vt

[Robbnva]

So his choice of question is a coincidence? He could ask something like "how many games you've played?" or "who's your favorite band?", but dessert isn't an usual question.

Well i never understand the point of doing any rqs. I also don't see why a VT is going to start the game with the idea of crumbling their role.

It's weird all around personally. And yes he could have been coached since scum have day talk.

[Robbnva]

He's played 2 games and was only day 1 lynched once. That's often?

[Robbnva]

*3 games

Okay, maybe not that often, but still think he's often a mislynch bait.

Missed the micro. He wasn't day 1 lynched there either.

[Robbnva]

What do you think about crazy?

Don't like how he's basically sheeped you early on. Want to see him respond to my questions and I'm still not done catching up so have to see if he has any original thoughts.

[Robbnva]

I think it's possible we are seeing egg's first scum game.

[Robbnva]

Ok?

[Robbnva]

im not fully caught up yet so I don't have opinions on a lot of people yet. Im also not one to give out all my reads either. But dragon I'm kind of conflicted on for reasons.

[Robbnva]

Why did you watch and read those other games?

The micro game he was NKd. I haven't read the game yet but NK implies not lynchbait

[Robbnva]

But he's saying he looked at these other games.

Plus micro never even got more than 1 vote on him (based off published VCs)

[Robbnva]

Because it's relevant

[Robbnva]

Probably cause you backed off his wagon for shoddy reasoning. Your reasoning for why he was scum was much stronger.

you did a 180 and your reasoning doesn't work

[Robbnva]

I find it pretty opportunistic the way you straight supported Robbnva at "can be easily faked" (see the bolded argument).

How is it opportunistic exactly?

creature it looks like you missed this question. can you please respond?

[Robbnva]

8 happened after you made that statement so that technically doesn't count
6 is a list read and doesn't get considered as scum hunting
so basically 5 is his only scum hunting post? It's weird you think it's a good post and to me it looks like a post that anyone could fake.

so you town read him off basically 1 post yet later you said this about somebody else

Two posts is not enough to judge anyone on.

so how can you judge somebody off 1 post (even if I include his number 8 iso that makes 2) but you can't judge somebody else off 2 posts? seems weird to me.

as for atm, so it's meta based off 1 game? meh but ok for now.

I would like to see more fo

[Robbnva]

vote: eggman

I believe this puts him back to L-1

[Robbnva]

So far, all games I've played with Vanilla Townies had them confirmed by the setup

This game has VT confirmed by the setup even though it's closed. The mod's are required to provide a sample VT role pm that is used in the game. this is a normal game. Normals are guranteed to have at minimum 1 VT (and more likely 3/4 of them)

I also don't like how you basically implied you know creature is town.

If you want to stop talking about yourself, stop talking about yourself and start interacting with people.

You have played other games where you were town, so you should know how to at least do that right?

Ask questions or have conversations with people about game related things. I mean this isn't your first rodeo so why are you acting like it is? (Don't answer that. It's rhetorical cause I don't really care.)

P.edit - I'm not a fan of him either.

[Robbnva]

Who said there is a problem with it? If you want to pressure somebody go right ahead

[Robbnva]

atm487:

Do you have any scumreads that aren't Eggman currently?

so far, no, i'm still looking at all the posts, but other than Robb(only slight read) i can't think of anyone

I have had quite a few posts. You haven't been able to get a stronger read on me yet?

[Robbnva]

im not implying anything. I'm genuinely worried that at this point he doesn't have more reads. Tbh I have posted enough I should be more than a null for anyone. People should be able to tell if they think I'm townish or scummish. the fact that anyone is null reading me still is worrisome. As for not having anything AI in my posts, I find that quite amusing. I fee there's plenty I've said that can lead people to determine my alignment.

[Robbnva]

such as?

Yes second this request.

Also if you have seen posts from me you have issues with, why is this the first we are hearing of it? Why haven't you been pointing them out earlier? Why have you not tried to directly interact with me to figure me out better?

Better known as "playing the game"?

[Robbnva]

First I'm not sure what this vibe nonsense is. If you are town you are supposed to just come in and look for scum. You shouldn't even be thinking about dropping breadcrumbs about being a vt (tbh you shouldn't even be dropping breadcrumbs at all imo). You should be concerning yourself with questioning people and trying to find scum. Hopefully you do it good enough scum think you are a threat and take you out.

The middle I'm kind of confused by. It seems you are trying to imply I haven't been scum hunting and if that's what you are saying that's pretty laughable and completely inaccurate.


I'm also not sure what you meant by

ou denouce your vote on my and hop on the wagon, even though you claimed to vote for me because I voted for you(idk actually why you voted for me).

1. I never voted you
2. I didn't hop on any wagon, I voted who I thought was scum and have posts that show why I'm suspicious of egg

As for your reason for voting eggman

You voted him for defending himself and then trying to explain why others are scummy. Is that really suspicious? That's exactly what I would expect from somebody regardless of alignment because that is how you play the game. Defend yourself and continue to scum hunt.

[Robbnva]

Also you think me putting somebody to l-1 is hopping the wagon without suspicion? If I'm wrong about egg and he flips town historically people look at the people who joined the wagon late so if anything I've put a bigger spotlight on myself especially when I said earlier that we should take our time and now a day or 2 later I'm putting him back to l-1.

[Robbnva]

im not implying anything. I'm genuinely worried that at this point he doesn't have more reads. Tbh I have posted enough I should be more than a null for anyone. People should be able to tell if they think I'm townish or scummish. the fact that anyone is null reading me still is worrisome. As for not having anything AI in my posts, I find that quite amusing. I fee there's plenty I've said that can lead people to determine my alignment.

This is incorrect. I'd complain about how many people on this site believe that affiliation can always be determined by a good enough number of posts -It cannot. I won't go anymore into that because of irrelevancy, however you're wrong if you think you can be accurately read based of posts. If you could then mafia would be impossible to play etc.

I'm questioning people, engaging people, and even proving people wrong. If none of that is alignment indicative you aren't trying hard enough. You have to look at motives also and you kind of have to use your own common sense. Would scum take the time to go research eggman' games to disprove the statements creature were saying? If yes then you can use that to help decide if I'm scum or not. If no, same thing.

You were able to get a scum read on creature for far less. You also voted egg for some reason or another. To say you aren't able to get a read on me quite frankly is weird

[Robbnva]

Why are you voting eggman? I didn't see a reason in your post. I also think you have more reasons to vote creature but you would rather flip eggman first which is also weird to me.

[Robbnva]

Yeah if your scum read is stronger on somebody else it's bad play to want to lynch the lesser scum read. Ugh now I'm not townreading you anymore.

[Robbnva]

And now I'm not sure what to make of egg

unvote

Lots to think about now

[Robbnva]

Like you have way more evidence against creature. Your vote should be on him.

[Robbnva]

I actually think we learn more about eggman from a creature lynch than vice versa. Plus creature actually got caught in at least some dishonest postings.

vote: creature

Keeping an eye on smitherines though.

[Robbnva]

But if you are more suspicious of creature your vote should be on creature. You even thought he was lying about eggs games and I proved he was and you don't vote him?

That just strikes me as weird. Id like to see creature get a few more votes on him.

[Robbnva]

I think I understand your pov but I don't necessarily agree with it. I think we learn much more from a creature lynch, at least I would. Would help me figure out at least 2 people plus he's scummy

[Robbnva]

did you mean completely different premise?
i'm looking for scum, i'm also looking for people who seem like they are looking for scum, and who's actions make sense to me.

p.edit - If creature flipped scum i'd be more suspicious of you. If he flipped town not sure because I would be kind of confused by his 180 for weak reasoning.

interesting note it was atm's reason for voting you that factored into me reconsidering my vote on you The reason he gave is something I actually see as something coming from town vs scum and after I iso'd you I saw at least one post that looks very town to me.

[Robbnva]

the fact they came in at the same time with a similar message.. uhhh

if you are referring to the creature being scum thing, well it's pretty obvious they look to be connected.

how else do you explain him providing pretty decent reason for egg being scum and when the wagon grows he backs off for weak and incorrect reasoning?

I guess he could be scum backing off a mislynch for town cred but I don't think an egg townflip would actually earn creature any town cred

[Robbnva]

Oh that

[Robbnva]

@Robb, my entire suggestion is that we lynch Eggman -> Creature. My ordering makes more sense because I don't have a case against Creature if it turns out that Eggman is town.

@Dwlee fucking well spotted lol.

You say you don't have a case for creature yet your iso is full of reasons why you are suspicious of him and not as many reasons for egg so that looks like it could be compiled into a case if you wanted to.

[Robbnva]

I find it so anti-town saying that if I flip town you're going to lynch Eggman anyway, either your logic is bad or I got a reason to change my view on you.

Who said they would lynch egg anyway if you flip town? Smitherines nor I said that

[Robbnva]

From what I recall I publically retracted my earlier reasoning vs Creature and replaced with the argument that he's clearly defending a scum buddy in Eggman.

I'm going to sleep, If the Eggman wagon doesn't go ahead, I'm fine for killing Creature.

I must have missed that retraction

[Robbnva]

And now I'm not sure what to make of egg

unvote

Lots to think about now

What made you question your decision?

Pretty sure all of my reasonings have been posted. Finish catching up and if you still can't tell I'll point them out. I'm heading out to pick up my son.

[Robbnva]

Then you aren't reading carefully

[Robbnva]

My approach is asking him to read my posts for the answers to my questions since I'm not able to quote them myself atm. What's wrong with that approach?

[Robbnva]

Yes we know you are town reading him. Yet my point about that change remains valid. You had decent reasons to scum read him. You have bad and factually incorrect reasons to town read him. Because I made these points and actually proved you were lying I'm now on you scum list.

[Robbnva]

Lol how did i go from null to scumlean?

[Robbnva]

There is. He never posted. He's scum reading a vacant slot

[Robbnva]

I am thinking the whole scum team is in {Akigoku, crazycrabman, MarioManiac4, Robbnva, Smithereens, stelo}

He's in your possible scum list which implies scum reading

[Robbnva]

[Robbnva]

Who was using that as a reason to scum read him?

[Robbnva]

"Who said I was scumreading X because Y?"

What was the point of this?

[Robbnva]

I agree with that last part about how dwlee can be a null read.

[Robbnva]

Strong townreads - Robbnva, Smithereens

Oh nice, my flip will give info that scum will have an easy win.

[Robbnva]

The scum team must probably be Robbnva, crazycrabman and some lurksack.

Have you even said why you think I'm scum? Catching you in a lie was some pretty damn good scum hunting and aside from omgus I can't imagine why anyone could be scum reading me. I'm making good logics posts left and right.

[Robbnva]

Creature
Can you stop asking for prods?

2nd this request.

The mod is active. Let the mod do his own thing.

[Robbnva]

I find it so anti-town saying that if I flip town you're going to lynch Eggman anyway, either your logic is bad or I got a reason to change my view on you.

Who said they would lynch egg anyway if you flip town? Smitherines nor I said that

You never answerd this question.

My approach is asking him to read my posts for the answers to my questions since I'm not able to quote them myself atm. What's wrong with that approach?

Or this one

"Who said I was scumreading X because Y?"

What was the point of this?

Or even this one.

Could you please?

Oh and I found the post where you said why you scum read me. Let me respond to that next

[Robbnva]

- You discredited my reads
- You said you question what you find worth, yet I only see you questioning me or Eggman
- You refuse to go anywhere but me or Eggman
- It seems like you're positioning to get two mislynches

How did I "discredit" your reads? Do you mean when I caught you lying about your reason for changing your opinion on egg or was it something else? Because that's a town move actually.

I haven't asked anyone else questions? Are you sure you are reading this game? Did you not see me question and even change my read on smitherines? Did you not see me question crab? I've questioned at least have of the player list.

How am I positioning to get 2 mislynches when I never said that I would go after egg if you flipped town? I said my view of egg would be "unsure" if you flipped town. I also said in a later post that the reason atm gave for his egg scum read actually played a factor into thinking egg could be town, I also mentioned egg made a post that looked townie. All that implies that I'm not really scum reading egg and also implies that I wouldn't be going after him.


Last thing, not directed at you but

@ atm

I guess I did vote you at some point. Somehow i forgot that.

[Robbnva]

I find it so anti-town saying that if I flip town you're going to lynch Eggman anyway, either your logic is bad or I got a reason to change my view on you.

Who said they would lynch egg anyway if you flip town? Smitherines nor I said that

"I'm not sure on Eggman" = I'd lynch Eggman anyway

My approach is asking him to read my posts for the answers to my questions since I'm not able to quote them myself atm. What's wrong with that approach?

It looks dismissive.

"Who said I was scumreading X because Y?"

What was the point of this?

That looks like an excuse to put down your accusations.

1. That's a reach. Plus I made a post (post 453) that implies I'm not scum reading egg and actually said his
Post looks like he's town so you are REALLY making up stuff here.

2. Being busy is dismissive? Uh not really

3. Nobody accused me of anything so how could I be putting the accusation down. I was asking him to clarify who he saw doing that because I didn't see anyone doing that.

[Robbnva]

And now I'm not sure what to make of egg

unvote

Lots to think about now

What made you question your decision?

Initially it came from my interaction with atm. When I read his reason for voting egg I found that reason to not be a good one. He's accused egg of doing something I'd expect from any player not trying to get lynched. Defend yourself but keep focusing on the game and trying to find scum. I also added in the fact that smitherines seemed to be pushing harder for an egg lynch yet I felt his posts imply that he is more suspect of creature. Creature was my top scum read also and him insisting that we learn more from an egg lynch over his top scum read was fundamentally wrong imo and I didn't feel good about being on that wagon. I also decided to Iso egg and thought his post 267 wasn't bad. He is giving some reasons and explaining himself and he didn't look frazzled doing it. Plus whether I agree with him or not he comes off as genuine about his "crumb" explanation.

[Robbnva]

Also I think egg town slipped and I don't think it was a "fake" town slip so while I still question why he felt the need to crumb vt, I feel he's probably town.

[Robbnva]

interesting note it was atm's reason for voting you that factored into me reconsidering my vote on you The reason he gave is something I actually see as something coming from town vs scum and after I iso'd you I saw at least one post that looks very town to me.

How did you read this post and come to the conclusion that I am trying to line up 2 mislynces (you and egg)

I pretty much took egg off the table with this post.

[Robbnva]

Not the busy part, but the way you just said "go catch up"

well yeah because the reasons for my change were in my posts so if somebody read the they should be able determine why my read changed...

If you'll say you wasn't using that to scumread me in 488, then what was the point of that post?

to laugh at you. This opinion you gave wasn't alignment indicative to me but it was (sorry no offense here) intellectually challenged.

It is impossible to have any read at all on a slot that hasn't posted. Nobody can have a town read, nobody can have a scum read. To include such a person into the scum pool is just plain dumb and I found it amusing.

I was already scum reading you way before that post and for much better reasoning, I don't need something so stupid on my list of reasons why you look like scum.

[Robbnva]

btw I am dismissive a lot, that's why people don't really like playing with me and why I have hidden behind numerous usernames.

[Robbnva]

It is impossible to have any read at all on a slot that hasn't posted. Nobody can have a town read, nobody can have a scum read. To include such a person into the scum pool is just plain dumb and I found it amusing.

"PoE pool"

It's nowhere dumb to narrow down scum.

just to clarify this is what you posted.

I am thinking the whole scum team is in {Akigoku, crazycrabman, MarioManiac4, Robbnva, Smithereens, stelo}

followed immediately by this

I am townreading Eggman.

I am not townreading Akigoku, neither Mario, nor Robb or Smith, not even stelo, neither you.

You only said you were town reading one person. That isn't POE and it contradicts your later post where you say you are town reading everyone else not in that pool.

3 of the people are inactive posters and 2 are being replaced, The only inactive person that worries me is mario because at least his inactivity falls along the lines of lurking under the radar. 2 of the people just happened to be people scum reading you.

[Robbnva]

Btw, don't this post bother you?

@F-oh-ex
I have Dwlee as null as I could see him flipping either way. I use the null spot as a spot for people who I see going in different directions depending on how the game plays out.

Could you ISO Dwlee and get back to me with an elaboration on your read?

Yeah, so reading through his posts it seems to me that he is genuinely scum hunting. But like you said before, he could be manipulating us. Currently, not judging anything but his ISO, I would have him somewhere between townlean and town. But I am hesitant to give him that townlean because say Creature flips town and eggman flips town, then out of the options available, i would have him as one of the main people I am watching out for and have him in scumlean. I think the problem we are having is that while many people read just off people's ISO, I believe that we should consider all the possibilities before we make a decision. I don't know if this is a good strategy because I have only tested it on one game, but it is what seems most fair to me.

The only issue I really see with this one is he is kind of suggesting (at least in a hypothetical way) that we lynch you and egg first. I do agree that dwlee comes off looking very town and also agree that he could possibly be scum manipulating.

actually I have issues with the "we should consider all the possibilities" part. He should concern himself with his own reads and go from there.

p.edit - right but I am not a mind reader and I can't assume that something is true.

i feel if you were town the 2 inactive players shouldn't even be in your pool of suspects at all because they have given nothing at all that can help read them better. Your pool should be a group of people who you can sort of make a case/or provide reasons for why they are scum and those reasons have to be ones that actually make sense.

If you are going to town read people you also have to have good reasons for them. You don't even have good reasons for your egg town read so sorry if I am kind of skeptical about any of your other reads.

[Robbnva]

we should lynch crazy

meh i'd rather lynch creature

[Robbnva]

I question a bunch of those just because I am not town reading them myself. The only person in that list I can say i'm comfortable with saying is town is probably dwlee. I don't need you to justify your reads to me, I just don't really agree with them.

and no calling somebody town because their claim imo isn't a good reason to townread. Not all scum are going to fake claim a PR.

[Robbnva]

what about it? He was at L-1 and was asked to claim and he claimed VT. how can you tell that is AI?

[Robbnva]

how can you tell that is AI?

I already said I think it's weird that a vt would crumb vt but I'm not so narrow minded that it can't come from town but it also could come from scum.

Maybe the rqs was something he decided to do unplanned (I think one of his other games somebody rqs' and maybe he thought it was a good idea) but using that as a crumb for a vt claim could have been something he was coached to say or maybe it was also genuine. But I have trouble believing somebody planned an elaborate way to claim vt but I guess it's possible

[Robbnva]

we should lynch crazy

Curious why him over creature?

[Robbnva]

[Robbnva]

uh where

So you think the scumteam in a 13-player game would be three people?

Right thur

[Robbnva]

OK so seeing robb's post(BTW your response hurt my feelings, and yes you did vote for me at one point) I believe he is town. He may be harsh to new players, but its obvious he did call me out on my bullshit and I am apologizing for basically wrongly accusing you, but still, some posts don't seem completely town, but so far, no posts have been scum in my opinion

Yes I corrected myself later. Also sorry I hurt people's feelings but I do it to everyone so it's not intentional. Don't really know why I do it cause irl I'm the most fun loving person who's always cracking jokes.

[Robbnva]

ffs you're mature af. If you want me to talk to you in the same way I'd talk to a challenged person, that's fine too.

[Robbnva]

Yes I realize that but that doesn't change what I said. This "strategy" isn't working for you in your words. You are asking yourself what else you can do but you just quoted the answer to your question.

[Robbnva]

If you are town you shouldn't worry about your past.

[Robbnva]

Idk why you even have a strategy.

Ugh now I'm really starting to think Derek has a point about crab

[Robbnva]

You see? Nothing I can do. I guess i'll ride this one out...

I literally told you what you should do and you made excuses why you can't do it.

I mean this isn't a newbie game and I'm not an IC but the advice I gave you was pretty good advice if I do say so myself.

If you aren't scum and you do get lynched, I'd at least like to see you leave behind some useful information.

Who do you think is scum? Why do you think they are scum?

If you can't at least answer those 2 questions you have a lot of work ahead of you

[Robbnva]

You see? Nothing I can do. I guess i'll ride this one out...

I literally told you what you should do and you made excuses why you can't do it.

Please quote that instance because out of the three posts of yours since I last came on (not counting this one) I don't see where you told me what to do. You hinted about changing my strat but that isn't "literal" and doesn't count. I guess you told me not to worry about the past but that isn't really advice.

actually I have issues with the "we should consider all the possibilities" part.

He should concern himself with his own reads and go from there.

The bolded

[Robbnva]

i don't want to leave creature but I'm ok with a crab lynch. I get he's s newer player but skimming his posts from his other game I'm seeing a completely different player

[Robbnva]

Crab. Your other game you did this big wall of players and explained your reads and put them in scummy order and stuff. You explained your reasons and you were pretty close to being right.

Why would you try a new strategy if that worked so good for you?

[Robbnva]

Fuck it

vote: crab

Somebody please investigate creature. Clearing that slot would make me sleep better

[Robbnva]

It really stinks that two really good wagons mysteriously disassembled themselves in favour of a guy who merely looks fishy. If this wagon is a mislynch, at least it will be an informative mislynch.

well to be fair I don't think creature really became a serious wagon. I don't think he ever received more than 3/4 votes. The only serious wagon we had was egg

[Robbnva]

Smitherines. honest opinion does the person who made this post look like the person playing this game?

[Robbnva]

keep in mind scum were ATM and LQ

[Robbnva]

Smitherines. honest opinion does the person who made this post look like the person playing this game?

He hasn't done a post in that format this game, so what? Excuse me for being skeptical but my games differ even more than his when I'm town. There was one game where I got removed and banned for a week as a townie. Are you going to scum read me because I'm acting completely different?

The scum case on Eggman and Creature is so much more solid and you know it. You're just reaching for reasons to vote Crazy and that's something you called out creature for doing. A tad hypocritical if you ask me.

i'm not reaching for reasons at all actually. I find his behavior and complete change in playstyle very suspicious. When a player comes off of a game where their initial reads are pretty damn accurate, most players don't decide to change and do something else. This game he looks lost like he doesn't know how to scum hunt which is a very common occurrence for first time scum (hell even veteran scum have issues with this)

Using the logic that evidence that is more solid = more accurate is also failed. I can point you to about 50+ of my games where I was convinced I had the most solid evidence on why somebody was scum only to not only be wrong but town reading the people that were actually scum.

putting pressure on crab when he is basically just existing in the game is a good thing to see what he will do next. You don't even know if crab will end up being lynched, sometimes people need pressure so why not apply more?

We have plenty of time and have basically 3 vacant slots. Lots of things can change between now and when a final lynch happens

[Robbnva]

I want more from Dwlee on his crab case because I'm really not seeing it.
I'm definitely going to be more active this weekend, but I should be here more tonight too.

I think it's safe to say we all want more from you. Pretty ballsy to ask others for more info when you haven't done much.

[Robbnva]

Well tbh I already removed you as a town read a while back so you weren't too far off the list.

Your reaction to this wagon is weird

[Robbnva]

1. Creatures backflip was weird cause he did a 180 with bad reasoning (and a lie)
2. I still scum read creature
3. I don't have a scum read on egg atm and have said so already
4. Pressuring multiple people in a day phase is probably better than focusing on one or 2 people, especially when the person getting pressured hasn't contributed to the game in a productive way.
5. Ctab looks lost atm and kind of making excuses that I'm not buying.

Your acting like crab is going to get lynched like it's set in stone or something.

[Robbnva]

The strategy I was referring to was to consider all the possibilities before putting them on your list of reads. Apparently this does not work according to some people.

Tbh I don't even know what that means. What do you mean consider all possibilities? Possibilities of what?

Also if that's your strategy where are examples of you doing that?

[Robbnva]

Also, many things changed between creature's early game and now. Early on he acted like he did in my first game with him, where he was town. Now he is acting a lot different, a bit like atm in that first game. I did like his posting style before

Explain. How creature is acting like atm. Use examples from that game if it'll help.

[Robbnva]

Crab. Your other game you did this big wall of players and explained your reads and put them in scummy order and stuff. You explained your reasons and you were pretty close to being right.

Why would you try a new strategy if that worked so good for you?

How do I know it worked so well from one game? I'm learning from my mistakes and trying out many things.
Yeah, I was pretty hyped the first game as I waited awhile for it and I got a power role. This game I'm a bit low on energy as that hype is burning off.

Your reads that game were near perfect. What mistakes?

[Robbnva]

It's so funny when someone accuses me of lying but are lying themselves.

atm487 in Newbie 1715:
"How to vote?"
*hammers tojam2*

Huh? I swear some of your posts I have no clue what you are even talking about.

[Robbnva]

What is the lie that people are talking about? Is it the one where you say eggman is mislynch bait?

Yes

[Robbnva]

what does you being accused by lying by me have to do with atm having issues voting in another game?

so let's assume he was lying that game about voting. he was scum so if anything you have proven what we already know. Scum lie and townies don't

[Robbnva]

yeah me neither since he has multiple examples of failing. It's that kind of post from creature though that makes him stay on my scum list. he is incoherent and grasping at just about every straw he can.

[Robbnva]

welcome

[Robbnva]

Finally the rock has come back to [insert city name here]

[Robbnva]

VC is incorrect as I'm voting crab

[Robbnva]

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!

Robbnva

has achieved

I am error

- Pointed out a mistake the mod made! How dare you.

[Robbnva]

Second wanting to hear from Mario. he fits my definition of active lurking

[Robbnva]

Should never try to make a person change their play style. Force them to contribute more sure but if he's typically an infrequent poster in games there's ways to do that and still be readable. Right now he's not readable and it looks intentional.

[Robbnva]

I haven't done anything townie yet?

Calling out a weird 180 and doing research to catch a player in a lie isn't townie?

[Robbnva]

Dude my posts scream town. Saying I haven't made any townie posts is like saying Jeremy Lin is the best player to
Ever play in the nba.

[Robbnva]

Surely, if they were an average player I would push him harder, but compared to Newbie 1715, he looks very different.

What if he is an average player and he's just very manipulative?

[Robbnva]

I played a game with a player who played the newb card and was town read for most of the game. Can't remember if scum won or not but the player admitted afterwards she was manipulating town.

I lov manipulating to cause they easily write things off as town that are so easily faked.

Maybe that's not the case for atm, but maybe it is. That's how my mind works though. I know how manipulative I can be so I expect it from everyone else

[Robbnva]

Yes because that's not manipulative. That's just smart play. Cmon infinity you are a better player than this

[Robbnva]

I use logic all the time.

And I know of you. You may know of me exactly but maybe a family member of mine.

[Robbnva]

Yeah but calling someone scum for lying about a simple thing or a logical contraction or something is :/

Cmon creature's lie wasn't some simple thing and I'm not buying it's something he misremembered since he was the one who brought it up. When you use something as evidence you make sure the evidence is right.

[Robbnva]

I don't like the part where you say "I use logic all the time", it kinda looks like an attempt to discredit me by making me look silly. You could've just said "I don't know what you mean" or something

How does me stating a fact about myself make you look bad? You brought up the question as to if I use it or not. So I answered you

[Robbnva]

Well the idk what you mean. I look at things and if they don't make sense to me I question them. Creatures defense and lie about egg were both weird to me and it's not something I can't fathom coming from town. Not when his reasons for egg being scum were much better than his reasons for egg being town.

[Robbnva]

Cause there's plenty of time in the day and I've found one scum so I'm looking for the others.

[Robbnva]

If I could vote twice I'd also vote mario

[Robbnva]

That thought process: [found one scum, move on, find another] doesn't actually occur to townies too often I realise. The fact that multiple players are expressing confusion over your vote should alert you to this fact.

I'm not worried about how my actions are perceived.

[Robbnva]

Reason. A player who is uninformed is likely to stick to a person who they've discovered is scum with a high degree of confidence. Moving off it simply shows how little profundity the discovery actually made on the player. If Rob's town, then he isn't too concerned about the town win con, and he clearly shows it. Otherwise he's scum.

you are just talking out of your ass at this point.

[Robbnva]

you REALLY don't want crab lynched.... I wonder why that is?

your reaction to the attention he got is actually why i'm not moving off him anytime soon. Your reaction is far more suspicious than creatures 180

[Robbnva]

If Rob's town, then he isn't too concerned about the town win con, and he clearly shows it. Otherwise he's scum.

like this part right here can no way come from a rational thinking townie.

I am playing against my win condition because I think it is better to pressure people instead of limiting the search to 1/2 people especially when we have a bunch of inactive people, people doing jack shit, and even lurkers?

the fact that you want to stay focused on creature/egg and ignore everyone else actually worries me if you are town. it shows you are close minded and town should not be close minded, they should be open minded.

[Robbnva]

I'd say you panicked when it appeared that Creature was about to get lynched, and now you're trying to get pressure off him.

but creature was never about to be lynched.

[Robbnva]

You're diverting attention from a scum lynch, the affiliation of Crab is actually irrelevant to this matter since he hasn't said anything that can be considered scummy. Inb4 you say 'he's' acting different, go back and reply to the fact that I act different in my town games, and I know a lot of players do since it isn't AI.

You're really looking for a way to stay off the Creature wagon it's pretty cle

1. I am not diverting attention from a scum lynch because creature isn't guranteed to be scum (though I think he probably is)
2. The most votes creature had on him was 4 votes. That is L-3 and isn't anywhere close to being lynched so idk why you keep bringing that up.
3. Using that same logic above, crab now has more votes than creature and you are trying hard to prevent crab from getting more votes. To the point you want to accuse me of playing against my win condition or I'm scum.
4. Crab hasn't said anything scummy? clearly we aren't reading the same posts because he absolutely has
5. You keep bringing up how you act differently in your games like that somehow matters to me. It doesn't this is some sort of false logic you are trying to use. It's not going to change my opinion no matter how many times you mention it.
6. I am not looking to stay off a creature wagon. If he gets close to a lynch I will gladly vote him but he isn't and I am suspicious of other people so I want to pressure them. Pressuring people is how you find scum. Ignoring scummy people is how town loses.

[Robbnva]

@Robb, why didn't you call into question my alignment during our discussion?

i'm not sure I understand.

[Robbnva]

Concern about our wincon is shown when a player get's excited about a discovery of scum they have just made, or concern about other players backflipping on their reads for shit reasons.

It doesn't matter what you believe about open-mindedness when I'm actually claiming that your apathy towards Creature (which you're construing as 'open-mindedness') is actually a scum tell.

now you just aren't making any sense. I don't have any apathy towards creature. He is still on my list of possible scum. I have like 6 people on my list of possible scum so excuse me while I do my best to sort these people out.

if you think that's me playing con, idgaf. If you think I am scum, idgaf

I'm not going to let you bully me into changing my vote and that's obviously what you are trying to do. Your hard defense of crab is noted

[Robbnva]

@Robb don't you think it would be helpful to pressure creature more to try and make him crack?

I have already seen enough of creature though. His 180 for weird reasons, his "lies" (put that in quotes since some people don't consider it a lie ), and his weird attempts at deflection makes me think there is no way he is town. I honestly don't think I can pressure him anymore than he has already been pressured.

[Robbnva]

Since my slot was empty up until recently, I'm wondering why you didn't seem to make an effort to determine my alignment or state a read on me.

I already establish my read on you. I didn't state it publically for the same reason I haven't stated my reads on quite a lot of players. I don't openly share my reads. I hate read lists and showing all my cards only benefits scum.

[Robbnva]

You also need to stop thinking that I'm town reading Crab.

when you try very hard to divert votes from his wagon, that's a logical conclusion. People don't typically try that hard on somebody they are null or scum reading

plus you said he hasn't said anything you think is scummy which would imply you are not scum reading him which would logically conclude he is more of a town lean rather a scum lean

[Robbnva]

Do you think pressuring him might convince other people more though?

historically, i'd say no.

[Robbnva]

@Rob, If there's a reason to be diverting votes from Crab to Creature, it's because Creature is scum, and we don't know (read: can't know atm) what affiliation Crab is. I haven't dismissed the possibility that he's scum, I'm arguing that there is an elephant of a scum in this room, and we have a whole group of people piling onto a bystander. It looks as stupid as it sounds.

There is only 1 way you can know 100% sure creature is scum... Trust me, if you have some time go read all of the games from Jake from state farm and you will see me about a bazlilion times (obviously exaggeration of the number) claim I know somebody is 100% scum. You will also see that person flip town and I have egg on my face and a room full of pissed off people

Pay attention to this next part, It's really good.

I think creature is scum, however I also think crab could be scum. Right now we have 1 player who is making a bunch obvious scummy posts but is at least giving reads and thoughts for his reads (even if I don't agree with them) vs another player who isn't really doing a good job at giving reads or even explaining his reads when I know (granted it's only based on 1 game) that he is capable of doing it.

The fact that crab is capable of giving reads and explaing them worry me WAY MORE than somebody who is actually giving reads but I don't agree with.

Pressuring crab to give reads and explain them helps town out way more atm since nobody is close to a lynch and we still have 2 other players who aren't contributing.

There is no rush, so stop acting like there is.

[Robbnva]

@Rob, I'll propose a trade, I'll sheep your vote on Crab tomorrow if we lynch Creature today. Everyone wins, except for Creature and Crab.

We have 6 days plus we will probably get an extension due to still having an inactive player.

what's the rush?

why are you limiting your scum hunting on just 1 person?

better question, why are you so eager for my approval or assistance?

even better question, Why aren't you trying to convince other people besides me to vote creature?

[Robbnva]

What if I said crab and creature were both town and that we should push on derek and mario who haven't had pressure yet.

I would be ok pressuring mario also but until I get what I want from crab, I don't really want to change my vote.

[Robbnva]

@Rob, you explain the point well, however it simply becomes more clear that you've recognised the fact that the evidence against Creature is empirical, and the evidence against Crab is conditional. Putting your vote against a player for not giving good reasoning does not motivate that player to give better reasons. That fundamental study on human behviour is why the death penalty has been abolished in so many countries: The threat of punishment does not change behaviour.

The only useful place for a vote is to kill scum, and atm you're hoping it will do things that it clearly isn't going to do by pursuing a side show to Creature.

thanks for bringing up facts about the death penalty... that's totally going to change my mind...

The only useful place for a vote is to kill scum? That is factually incorrect.

Votes are often used for pressure, pressuring players is a good way to not only determine their alignment, but also later for vote count analysis.

Please refrain from telling me how to use my vote and also refrain from trying to teach me incorrect mafia theory.

Thank you

[Robbnva]

and smith, please respond to post 748 please

[Robbnva]

I don't think we would get Creature to somehow "crack"

at least not anymore than he already has.

[Robbnva]

ok fine, be worried about my vote.

p.edit -

[Robbnva]

Right, so my error was in believing that you were driving for a Crab lynch at the expense of a creature lynch. That sits better with me, dw.

I also find it odd that you accuse me again of trying to divert attention from creature when you already acknowledged you understood what I was doing when you made this post.

p.edit - I pay attention to my own posts

[Robbnva]

What about his early game am I missing?

[Robbnva]

Do you suggest that Creature is a newb who doesn't know what the town win con looks like..?

That's like 2 peopl you have accused of not playing against their win con which is 2 more than it should be.

[Robbnva]

Do you suggest that Creature is a newb who doesn't know what the town win con looks like..?

That's like 2 peopl you have accused of not playing against their win con which is 2 more than it should be.

If you read my post vs you, I posited you had apathy for the town wincon.

In this situation I'm not suggesting Creature is against the town wincon.

I have accused 0 players of going against a wincon.

If you lack understanding in this matter, the post your taking issue with basically asks whether or not creature is just lolvoting because he has no idea how to read. It's also a legit question.

Semantics imo. The fact that you bring it up at all bothers me

[Robbnva]

Creature was actively scum hunting for most of the game. Creature looks town for that, scum hunting is kinda hard to fake as noob scum. In addition, he's looks very open with his thoughts which is hard to fake even for experienced scum.

Going to disagree here. I don't really see anything that looked good coming from him after he got called out for his weird 180 which implies buckling under pressure which implies scum

[Robbnva]

What question?

[Robbnva]

If he's town I don't think he's playing against his win condition. If he's scum I don't think he's playing against his win condition.

The fact that you keep talking about it bothers me very much especially after you tried to imply I didn't care about (or was playing against) my win condition.

I'm voting you and will be ignoring you from now on cause I don't see this push coming from a townie.

vote: smitherines

[Robbnva]

I don't agree

[Robbnva]

1. You're like the second person to have issues with the "I'm not scum but" thing. Why? If you are accused of being scum and you aren't the natural reaction is to deny that you are scum.
2. Yes it does because I'm an angry player at times. I get into arguments with people quite frequently
3. Not sure why you have an issue with 154. That was a genuine post
4. Not sure what your issue with 326 is either. Stevie wonder himself can see creatures 180 was weird.
5. 430/431 are excellent posts. If you don't agree that really makes me question your intentions. If a player who's made a bunch of posts is still unreadable to you and that same player isn't making an effort to engage with that person to attempt to read them better they aren't playing the game. That's not even my opinion anymore. That's an honest to god fact. Like seriously how do you have an issue with that?
6. Why the soft defense on atm? Atm does look bad. He looks like he isn't playing the game.
7. it is ridiculous that he's scum reading a vacant slot and from his post there is NO WAY you or anyone else can determine he's using Poe. You are letting your bias show with this one.
8. Yes really. Now you are just being nitpicky
9. 542 - this makes me town actually. I'm playing the game and attempting to develop reads. Yet you put that as a knock against me? And at the end of your post you vote me? Are you even town? There is literally no way you can read my posts and think I could be scum right now.
10. Of course it's a fair post. All of my posts have been fair posts. Why do you only concede that one? Weird
11. More nitpicky stuff. Like there is seriously nothing wrong with requesting a scummy player being investigated or me voting a person I'm scum reading.
12. Yes I did and yes I will. What's the issue?

Conclusion your posts and vote are terrible. If you are town you need to do better.

[Robbnva]

Now to your other stuff.

1. How can you possibly be unsure of eggman? There's plenty from him to determine a read. You have given enough just in the blurb about creature/eggman alone that implies you could actually make an informed decision yet you can't? That's weird.

2. The point you bring out about dragon is actually a better reason for you to want to pressure dragon yet you don't seem to want to. Active lurking until a couple of potentional wagons ebbed and now a play style change? Why aren't you pressuring that and instead attacking me for protown posts?

3. Your points about smitherines is also good and I feel that you have better reason for voting him yet you don't...

Yeah I'd gladly be ok with somebody investigating you also. If you are town your opinions can be ignored because you make good points about people and ignore those and make bad points and votes that one.