Mini 1805 [C'est fini!]

[Eggman]

Hello, everyone! General question: what's your favorite dessert?
VOTE: Creature (I won't lurk this time if you don't.)

[Eggman]

Town {Derek12}
Null {Everyone else}
Scum {Eggman, Crazy, Robbnva}

Dwlee: Why us in particular?

[Eggman]

UNVOTE: Creature[/vote]

If you can't see how it's easy to fake pushes early game then yes you are absolutely inexperienced. I've faked pushes late game as scum so early game is a breeze

Sounds like it would be making a case on someone with little to no evidence, or voting for them on a really bad reason.

Hello, everyone! General question: what's your favorite dessert?
VOTE: Creature (I won't lurk this time if you don't.)

Hello, I am not lurking, what about you?

I was asleep.

Dwlee and Robbnva's banter, to me, implies some sort of familiarity between the two, even though they're opposing each other.
F-oh-ex

Jsyk, this

is

my first game outside of Road to Rome. Go ahead, be a condescending prick and call me an idiot.

A little AtE-ey.

I'll ask you a question before my phone dies. What's your thoughts of atm who I basically guided him towards things he could give an opinion on and instead of doing that just started questioning me.

Dwlee, don't think you ever answered this

I can see him doing that as town or scum

So far Dwlee's given this answer twice. I think he's using that as an excuse to not form reads on the specific players, or to get out of not having them. Feels a little scummy to me. His 144 feels to me like he realized the above argument and thought it through.

I'll give Dwlee benefit of doubt and assume he's being antagonistic for the sake of arguments/activity. Not an ideal tact imo given all the activity, so take the hint.

Where do you see him being antagonistic?
I'll put my

Vote

on

Smithereens

for now, because I want to hear more from him.

[Eggman]

Whoops.
UNVOTE: Creature*

[Eggman]

Okay so scum team is dragon, crazy and eggman. Thoughts?

So you think the scumteam in a 13-player game would be three people?

Well other than a slight(EMPASIS ON SLIGHT) scum read on Robb, I can't think on who to vote for

I was going to vote for atm based on Page 3 but his recent posts are much better, so this is where I'm at right now.

Have your reads changed any? Do you have anyone you'd rather vote for now?

[Eggman]

I just realized I forgot that ending. Thanks Creature
What I was going to say was, F-oh-ex, Robb, and Dragon were the only ones to respond to my question.
On 188, I wanted to make a post to show I was reading, but I wasn't really sure what to say, so. Uh.
If it helps discussion any, right now I townread Dwlee, Dragon, and Creature.
Dwlee, because of the back-and-forth between him and Robb and his responses (they left me with a good feeling)
Dragon, because of gut mostly
and Creature, because in the other game I played with it (where it was mafioso) it didn't really post a lot and mostly lurked, and today it's been one of the most active players.

[Eggman]

As clarified by his post after that, that was just an acronym for "at the moment" and not some code or attempt at buddying.
I'd say MM is fine in my eyes, as while he hasn't talked up much I can't see many serious holes in his logic.

For the scumreads, I'm leaning towards Derek (reasons pointed out in 248) and stelo (he was here at some point, why hasn't he shown up?)
I'd put Robb and Smithereens at low null, because of gut feelings. Can't really make a read off of those.

[Eggman]

I'd try to scumhunt, but a. I'm not aware of the methods to do so and b. I don't see anything to go off of. So let me respond to Derek's post.
quote="In post 253, Derek12"]

For the scumreads, I'm leaning towards Derek (reasons pointed out in 248) and stelo (he was here at some point, why hasn't he shown up?)
I'd put Robb and Smithereens at low null, because of gut feelings. Can't really make a read off of those.

Uhh could you expand on these a bit more? Your scumreads are either sheeping or completly unsubstantiated. Could you also explain why you consider stelo's flaking to be scummy? I'm not seeing how it's alignment indicative.[/quote]

Derek

: It felt to me like you were restating Dwlee's opinions and joking around with him. Sorta read like buddying.

Stelo

: IMO, inactivity is a scumtell.

Smithereens

: To me, at least, it feels like he's taking a negative attitude with this game. Also, while we're on the topic:

the question is not phrased to imply that he's looking for an answer so much as he wants to be seen asking it:
'How many scum are in this game?' is excusable sometimes.
'So you think the scumteam in a 13-player game would be three people?' Not really.

I don't like this post very much because I don't understand his logic over my question. I WAS looking for an answer there, although the intent seems to have not come across. Every mod can do things differently, as well, so I wouldn't know the exact ratio of a 13-player game, hence the question.

Robb

, I've thought about since the last post, and changed my mind about, simple as that. I'd put him in null now.

[Eggman]

Because I agreed with your opinion on him.
If somebody who hasn't spoken up very much is scum, then that's stelo, Aki, and MM4, and I townread (pronounced like the color) MM4 from his few posts.
Not projection, hypocrisy.
PEDIT: VT. It's why I did the RQS: "vanilla" ice cream

[Eggman]

That was the intent, yes.

[Eggman]

don't you just love when you're writing a big post then accidentally delete the tab
i'm rereading the game closely
also i only just understood dwlee's 167. VOTE: smithereens

[Eggman]

^This. He claiemed he actually closed the tab and his post did't send out.

No, I claimed I was rereading the game and pointing out things I missed before and closed that tab in the middle of writing it. You're deliberately misinterpreting that post.

[Eggman]

I also hold the belief that a VT claim is incredibly useless, so crumbing my role in the form of that RQS would lend a little bit more credence.

[Eggman]

Because I meant to vote Smithereens pages ago to see what he would do about it and for (an admittedly small amount of) pressure, but the format was incorrect so it never actually went in.
PEDIT: you said the tab I closed was for me, saying my favorite desert was vanilla ice cream for the RQS. I said, the tab I closed was my catching-up post.

[Eggman]

Derek: After I wrote the post saying I was rereading and I closed the tab where I had written a post on what I had missed before, F-oh-ex said the tab was where I was going to crumb VT. It wasn't, so I accused him of misinterpreting my post.
Speaking of which, my favorite desert is vanilla ice cream.

[Eggman]

I was going to, 'till the wagon started and I got to L-1. Also, see 306. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
310: where..?

[Eggman]

OK, now even I'm confused by this whole ordeal, which may or may not has been your intention.
I put the question so I could follow it up with "mine is vanilla ice cream", but you guys started a wagon on me while I was away and I had to claim before answering it.
I think Dwlee got it right.

[Eggman]

If we're talking about my logic for crumbing, here it is. If we weren't, here it is anyway.
So far, all games I've played with Vanilla Townies had them confirmed by the setup. So, a VT claim would be rather useless as defense, no?
I don't know how the common opinion on VT claims is with closed setups, as this is my first with that. So in case I had a wagon started on me, which has happened quite a lot in my experience, I wanted to have something else to back up my "useless" claim. As F-oh-ex pointed out, I did kinda forget to answer it, so that leads us to here right now.

(I feel like I'm talking too much about myself, and not enough about you guys. Any way to fix that..?
Also, I'm reconsidering my scumread on Derek, because it seems that the friendliness between him and Dwlee could be from them being IRL friends. Those avatars are too similar to be a coincidence.)

[Eggman]

As Creature pointed out, we have a week. Let's not be hasty.
(I like your town game more than your mafioso, Creature.)

[Eggman]

Crabman:

In your 401, you said you'd make a chart later today. Well, it's later - did you chart it out?

[Eggman]

Smithereens: how would you feel about the scumminess of Creature's defense if, hypothetically:
a. we were both town
d. I was town, and it was mafioso
b. we were both mafiosos
c. I was mafioso, and it was town

(I think that we're both town, and the "scummy" part of Creature's defense is just it misremembering stuff (I do that a lot as town, too).)

[Eggman]

Robb: How would your reads change depending on how Creature flipped?
I won't go for or against a Creature lynch right now but I'll look through its ISO to make up my mind.

[Eggman]

And now I'm not sure what to make of egg

unvote

Lots to think about now

What made you question your decision?

Pretty sure all of my reasonings have been posted. Finish catching up and if you still can't tell I'll point them out. I'm heading out to pick up my son.

This looks like an SvS interaction.

How so? The scummiest thing you could possibly take away from this is "uh, I posted it in the QT, look there", and I feel like that's sort of a reach. It flew over my head first time I saw it.

Scumreads [in that order] - Creature, Eggman, crazycrab (mutually exclusive to be scum with Creature)

UNVOTE: Eggman
VOTE: Creature

Given that it looks like Crabman's only scumread is on Creature right now, this doesn't make much sense.

I feel there is enough evidence to VOTE: Creature

This vote is opportunistic. Too opportunistic. Probably a mafioso trying to get his wagon going.

Also I think egg town slipped and I don't think it was a "fake" town slip so while I still question why he felt the need to crumb vt, I feel he's probably town.

uh where

VOTE: Crabman for now. That was a bad vote, it's only fair to repay in kind.

[Eggman]

Four votes on Crabman, for the record.

[Eggman]

"some lurker"
so {MM4, Akigoku, Stelo}
...Has anyone checked to see if any of these accounts have been online recently, or is that too meta?

[Eggman]

UNVOTE: Crabman
More in the morning. I should really get to bed.

[Eggman]

Crab. Your other game you did this big wall of players and explained your reads and put them in scummy order and stuff. You explained your reasons and you were pretty close to being right.

Why would you try a new strategy if that worked so good for you?

Fuck it

vote: crab

Somebody please investigate creature. Clearing that slot would make me sleep better

These two posts happened within a minute of each other. Food for thought.

It really stinks that two really good wagons mysteriously disassembled themselves in favour of a guy who merely looks fishy. If this wagon is a mislynch, at least it will be an informative mislynch.

From then through now, Smithereens still pushes for the Egg/Creature lynch. Somewhat admitting that Crabman looks scummy, but downplaying it to make his point. Also, seafood puns.

Smitherines. honest opinion does the person who made this post look like the person playing this game?

Excuse me for being skeptical but my games differ even more than his

when I'm town

. There was one game where I got removed and banned for a week as a townie. Are you going to scum read me because I'm acting completely different?

Slip, or just wishful thinking?

I think a lot of people abandoned the Eggman wagon earlier. He handled the pressure of all the votes on him well. While he's still a scum lean for me for now, he's not near my top. I think some others were reading him closer to null/town even. Creature still bothers me because of the blatant lies and shotty reasoning to back off the Eggman wagon so early. His reason was the crumb claim. While it's possible this really swayed him, his logic was completely faulty. That makes me feel like he was hoping for an Eggman lynch to get himself some town cred once egg flipped town. While I think creature is my strongest scumread at the moment, I'm still suspicious of others and I think Robb is right to say we should use more of this day to put pressure on different people and get more ideas on them. Especially with a few inactives that we're waiting to get replaced. That being said, the day can always end up going back to a lynch on creature after we've gotten more reads on everyone else

I've been ISOing everybody and:
- Eggman has crumbed VT, which I find very unlikely he'd do that as scum.
- There are 6 players scum reading him excluding me.

So I am no longer scumreading Eggman.

The "faulty" parts here are saying I crumbed when I never actually did (although I set it up) and jumping for the opinion of others. Is that what you saw, Dragon?

No, I didn't forget abut them, I was asked who I thought the scum team was I believe (or that's how I interpreted it), and that's who I think it is.

Are you still scumreading Eggman and Robbnva? If so, please explain your scumread on Robbnva because you haven't really touched on it much from what I can tell.

ffs you're mature af. If you want me to talk to you in the same way I'd talk to a challenged person, that's fine too.

What caused you to stop scum reading Eggman/Creature?
What caused you to move to Crazy?

I might try to explain later, right now I'm too busy feeding in league with mah boi norbert who sets francis on me as support viktor taking all my farm. feelsbadman

It's later.

@DotW:

Are you scumreading anyone but Creature or Eggman right now?

This post makes me feel better about Derek, for some reason.

Hi guys, been following the thread, here are my thoughts so far

Eggman - Looks like noobtown to me, I don't like how fast the wagon on him formed, and crumbing VT seems more like silly town than weird scum
Creature - Probably my strongest townread, he seems to be very open with his thoughts and actively scumhunting. His thoughts on leaving the egg wagon mirrored my thoughts at the time.
Dragon of the West - Also seems open, brings up good points and genuine-looking thoughts
atm - Probably confused town but I'm not sure
Dwlee - Really liked his activity early on so he's probably town, just wish he would stop being lazy
Derek - null. I like his pushes, but some of his posts don't seem to be doing very much and my gut says he might be scum
MarioManiac - null leaning scum for gut
F-oh-ex - Probably town because the depth of his analysis is more likely to come from town and his emotions seem genuine
crazycrab - I was scumreading him up until recently, but the thing about him trying to change his playstyle doesn't seem faked, and his comment along the lines of "I don't know what I can do to make you townread me" is very classic town frustration for being wagoned.
Robbnva - null leaning scum, it's kinda worrying that he hasn't done anything particularly towny yet since he's been very active. Also, his logic-based scumhunting style seems almost too easy--he's very experienced so he should know that town often uses bad logic, perhaps more than scum does.
Smithereens - null leaning town, for his aggressiveness. Something feels off about him to me, not sure what it is though

VOTE: MarioManiac let's do it.

Infinity

: What page were you on when you held these opinions on Creature, Robb, and Smithereens?

watching you Dragon~

O.o

What for? The big quotepost was by Creature.

Yes because that's not manipulative. That's just smart play. Cmon infinity you are a better player than this

This response is confusing. Is it town? Smart play? Are the two mutually exclusive? Robb?

Aw shit, I gotta go on a week long trip, thought this game would be faster than usual. Well it seems I have to leave on Saturday and will be back on Saturday. Rip

A one-week vacation? Have fun! Don't forget about us!

If you're so confident creature is scum, why aren't you voting him?

Cause there's plenty of time in the day and I've found one scum so I'm looking for the others.

Are you talking about Crabman or Creature here?

Do you have a reason you think it's more likely to come from scum or is it just experience

Reason. A player who is uninformed is likely to stick to a person who they've discovered is scum with a high degree of confidence. Moving off it simply shows how little profundity the discovery actually made on the player. If Rob's town, then he isn't too concerned about the town win con, and he clearly shows it. Otherwise he's scum.

In layman's terms, town tunnel their scumreads. From experience, I take Robb's side here: I've had scumreads but instead of acting on them then and there, tried to find the scumbuddy.

There is nothing weird about the fact that it's not normal for a town to not get hyped about finding a scum and just leave it be.

This post just feels like "If you're not me and don't have my reaction, you're scum". Not everybody will be a gold miner, Smithereens! Some will be paleontologists.
[This post is getting big, so I'll start a new one for pages 30+.]

[Eggman]

What do you guys think about the interactions between Infinity and Smithereens?

[Eggman]

This response is confusing. Is it town? Smart play? Are the two mutually exclusive? Robb?

Not sure why it's confusing. Yes it's town, yes it's smart play, imo yes they are.

Objection! According to my words, it can either be town OR smart play! But thank you for your other responses.
PEDIT: I'm asking if the reasons you were scumreading Creature were the ones I pointed out: the crumb claim and the reason he left my wagon.

[Eggman]

(That question, appropriately, was directed at Dragon of the West, because he asked for clarification, but thank you for your response, Robb.)

[Eggman]

Oh, uh.
Smithereens has actually been my scumread for the start.
MM4 saying there's nothing to note on Smithereens is not town.
VOTE: Smithereens (again),

FoS: MM4

[Eggman]

EBWOP. Oh,

huh

.
One implies I'm not sure of myself, the other implies I'm interested by what I found.

[Eggman]

Robb

: you're saying you'd lynch Infinity and Creature. What happened to Crabman? You were on that wagon until petroleumjelly replaced in - did you reconsider any after that?

F-oh-ex

: I would say it feels like Creature's off the table about now and we can reconsider him D2. I'd vote in {Crabman, Infinity, MM4}.

[Eggman]

So, based on what I've seen of other people's opinions, it seems that you consider Creature to mutually be scum with either Crabman or me.
VOTE: Crabman,

FoS: Smithereens (un-FoS Crabman)

I propose lynching Crabman today, seeing how he flips, and if he's town lynch me or Creature tomorrow.
Because I don't get the cases on Infinity and Dragon, which also (to me) seem a little OMGUS-y (didn't Infinity call out DotW in the first place?)

[Eggman]

Just to be clear, because I think you referred to me among others, by saying "Creature and Crab are mutually exclusive scumreads" I mean that I have a scumread on both of them but I do NOT see them as partners so one of them flipping scum would be a towntell for the other one in my eyes.

Yes. So if Crabman flips scum, then we can call Creature town.
(Of course, I forgot about MM4. If that lynch gets traction, I'll support it, because Smithereens.)

[Eggman]

Intent to Hammer: MM4

If he's town, that would reluctantly make me townread Smithereens, who I've had suspicion on all game. If not, hooray.

[Eggman]

EBWOP: I misunderstood the amount needed for a lynch, but I still have intent to vote. Whoops.

Biscuitoid: He's just giving me newbie vibes. True Neutral. (Although, claiming VT on Day 1 is a bad bad move, for future reference.)

In that game, Biscuitoid just claimed out of the blue. While I personally don't think that's a good strategy, it got him townread by mostly everyone.

Claiming VT is useless. I don't know about you guys, but as a mafioso I would never claim VT.

Nor as a townie, either. The only times I will claim VT are when I'm about to get lynched and in LYLO. Which is exactly what I say in this next quote.

I am a Vanilla Townie. Oh, only other acceptable time for VT to claim: in "roleclaim or die", or LYLO.

From the looks of it, Eggman was eventually run up Day One, claimed Townie, and eventually hammered himself in order to help Town achieve a lynch. On the one hand, given the above quotes, I am less inclined to think Eggman is scum in this game. But on the other hand, Eggman really

was

much more proactive and helpful in that game than this one. Eggman, could you please elaborate on your thoughts of claiming Vanilla Townie on Day One? And if you do not think it is acceptable to

claim

Townie on Day One, why do you think it is acceptable to

crumb

Townie on Day One?

My philosophy on when to claim VT hasn't changed: however, if I saw a VT claim coming from someone who was about to be lynched, my first thought about them would be "lying mafioso" instead of "actually a VT". So, like I've said before, I wanted to back up the claim with something to avoid the D1 mislynch I had predicted.
Evidently, it worked. So I'm happy about that, but I probably won't try crumbing in the future.

[Eggman]

I won't be here when the deadline happens, so I'm going to VOTE: MM4.
He reacted to my intent to hammer when it was actually Intent to L-2, and claimed VT because of it. Although he could probably be VT, we need a lynch today, and I think MM4 would be better than Crabman.
Also, Smithereens.

[Eggman]

Please don't quickhammer MM4, by the way! Announce intent first, and give a time to when you actually will hammer.
Alright, see you guys at 6.

[Eggman]

Welp, Dragon's confirmed as a neighbor now. I'm assuming the neighborhood is day-and-night talk, so: Dragon, did Robb tell you his results?
Also why so many posts Creature?

[Eggman]

Is it weird I am thinking scum must be within petroleumjelly/atm487/Dragon of the West/Smithereens?

Smithereens, no. Dragon, I can sorta see (my main reason is that neighbors aren't explicitly the same alignment). atm, I'm not sure. Petroleumjelly, yes (I don't see it).

I'm in a league game I'm busy

But seriously

VOTE: Creature

Serious vote.

Town (so I don't get paranoid of him)

A weird post to quote for what is presumably a note.

Is it possible scum wanted to kill Dwlee99 to WIFOM Smith?

how

^ I think mafia killed Dwlee99 because:
- SK would see Robbnva more as a threat to him rather than mafia who's just eliminating strong town reads and keeping WIFOM in the game.
- I don't think a vigilante would shoot Dwlee99, some showed paranoia but I don't see someone doing a hero vig here.

Adding to this, I have a gut feeling that whoever killed Robb was someone he was particularly abrasive to, so it was less of a calculated move and more of an emotional one.

I'll give Dwlee benefit of doubt and assume he's being antagonistic for the sake of arguments/activity. Not an ideal tact imo given all the activity, so take the hint.

he's gonna play that way regardless of what you say to him

Huh what?

smith, how was Dwlee being antagonistic: i didn't see that at all, and it feels to me like you're doing what creature did with the opposite intent (lying about someone to throw shade at them)

Nvm, I think Robbnva got widely town read at the end of D1.

at end of D1 I townread only Robb and Dwlee, so I can see what the mafia was intending

VOTE: Smithereens
Putting this back up.

[Eggman]

A wall followed by a wall, great. That's how you do it.

That flood gave me cancer. Also, SK is virtually confirmed because why would a Vig shoot either Dwlee or Robbvna? That "if" looks like trying to force a "townslip".
Also, you point out Derek is Town to you then you say "nvm Derek is Town". Consistency?

VOTE: Creature A shame his wagon died yesterday.

I thought he said town, then scum, then nvm town.

[Eggman]

1.)

Okay so scum team is dragon, crazy and eggman. Thoughts?

So you think the scumteam in a 13-player game would be three people?

I WAS looking for an answer there, although the intent seems to have not come across. Every mod can do things differently, as well, so I wouldn't know the exact ratio of a 13-player game, hence the question.

Would like to revisit this now. Eggman, were you of the opinion that a 13-player game would have a two-player scum team? Did you think there would be multiple scum teams?

I didn't know how many mafiosos would be in this game, since this is my first game of this size. While I was writing that post, I forgot about the 1:3 method, as well.

4.)

Eggman, could you summarize your case on Smithereens?

1. I didn't like his tone all throughout D1
2. Tunnels Creature and I while the rest of us go for a Crabman / atm lynch
3.

I don't pay attention to my posts Dragon, if you read on you'll see that's why I lean town on Rob. He doesn't do it either. However, someone is wrong on the internet and it's my destiny to correct them.

He later says that that's a towntell, as town should be making bold statements and not caring about contradictions. But from experience, contradictions do not a living townie make.
4. (To me, at least, it feels like) he talks about theory as much as, if not more than, the actual game
5. MM4's defense seems very much like one of the scum variety
6. Spends the entire day arguing on why we should NOT lynch Crabman, then flips his vote to Crabman at the end for the hell of it

Since DG replaced in, I'll remain suspicious of that slot, but I'll try that strategy of "finding a mafioso, then finding his buddy".

FoS: Dragon, Vote: MM4

I don't think there's an SK. It's more probable, to me, that there's a vig who felt slighted by Robb and killed him for that, but later found out he dun goofed.

[Eggman]

3.)

Eggman, why did you vote for crazycrabman on Day One while offering up one of yourself and Creature on Day Two?

So, based on what I've seen of other people's opinions, it seems that you consider Creature to mutually be scum with either Crabman or me.
VOTE: Crabman,

FoS: Smithereens (un-FoS Crabman)

I propose lynching Crabman today, seeing how he flips, and if he's town lynch me or Creature tomorrow.
Because I don't get the cases on Infinity and Dragon, which also (to me) seem a little OMGUS-y (didn't Infinity call out DotW in the first place?)

Based on your Day One posting your top scumread was Smithereens (and I see that is apparently still true based on your recent vote), so I don't understand why you would resort to a sort of 'gambit' offering like that.

because I felt that as a town we were stuck on me and Creature, I wanted to move us to Crabman and MM4, so we could come back to Creature and I the next day.

4.)

Eggman, in explaining your case on Smithereens you said:

5. MM4's defense seems very much like one of the scum variety

Could you explain this?

he puts smithereens first, especially saying "nothing here to note" when a few of us have noticed things there. To me it feels like a mafioso making an attempt to defend his buddy.

[Eggman]

Prodge.
I'm going to be more inactive this week, because the intensive I'm going to has two important projects due Wednesday and Thursday. Fortunately, it ends Friday, so I'll be back then.

[Eggman]

I'd go for atm487, unlike Mario, nothing makes me hesitate to vote him.

What'd stop you from an MM4 lynch? IMO he's one of the scummier slots due to the Smithereens defense.
@Infinity: part going off of Creature's {lynch list}, part because neighbors are not masons. I don't really suspect him as of now, but I'll keep the FoS up to remind me to look into his posts next week.

[Eggman]

didn't see the second question.
MM4:
pops in at start of Day 1, pops out
imo inactivity at the beginning of a game may be a minor scumtell
also his defense of smithereens by saying "nothing here" when there was obviously stuff from that slot is really bad

[Eggman]

Ok this is stupid.

I want everyone to list their top 3 lynch targets for today and explain in detail, if you haven't already, why they are there. Then at least we will have something to discuss and we can compromise or if worst comes to worst just plurality lynch where everyone gets on the wagon of the most popular scum spect. For me it would be dragon, Mario, and eggman.

Or at least say something, I'd rather get into stupid arguments with dragon that this. Hopefully the replacements will help.

Smithereens / DGB: I've already written a post on Smithereens, I'll go over DGB's iso tonight.
MM4 / NJAC: mainly because of lurking and the slot's defense of Smithereens
I wanted to lynch atm for his --posting / inactivity, but I think Titus will breathe some fresh air into the slot. So, uh, strike that.
Creature: I don't remember the exact reason for it, but we could try revisiting this lynch from D1?

[Eggman]

I'm not sure who the third mafioso could be, but I'm pretty sure on {DGB, NJAC}.

[Eggman]

@Eggman

Intent to Hammer: MM4

If he's town, that would reluctantly make me townread Smithereens, who I've had suspicion on all game. If not, hooray.

Do you still agree with this? Also, I don't really get it in the first place. Looking at it now, you seem to have more points against Smithereens then just MM4's defense of him. Why did you believe that MM4 flipping town = town Smithereens?

It wouldn't really be a townread now, just a point against my scumread. And to explain the second point, let me apply Smith's own quote: MM4's move was scum insofar as he was scum. If MM4 / NJAC is town, it's just a townie saying they townread this player. If MM4 / NJAC is scum, it's a mafioso defending their buddy.

I'm not sure who the third mafioso could be, but I'm pretty sure on {DGB, NJAC}.

Pretty sure? What's your case on DGB that makes you "pretty sure" he's scum?

I wrote a small case on Smithereens. (Totally forgot to look back at DGB, but I will do that right. now.)
Will look through DGB's ISO and reread Day 1 for Titus's question.

[Eggman]

On one hand SK will probably try to target Mafia. On the other one, eliminating him would get us rid of one NK.

I get that, but the scum is always more worried about SKs than town.

No one is considering a vig for the second kill?

The first one to bring up a vig, which is what I'm thinking as well.

And, seriously? Two people are voting Creature???

VOTE: crabman

Opposed to the Creature lynch, even when there isn't much threat to it at all. "Randomly" votes our D1 lynch.

Yeah... when I read that I thought they were scum together... but he flipped town.

Scumreading MM4? That could possibly be some small distancing. Or, if she's town, she scumreads MM4 as well. Hmm.

ISOing is nigh-worthless if you didn't catch up and don't know the context of situation in which the said posts were made.

There's a button for exactly that; the little white page.

I'm trying by helping lynch MarioManiac.

Yet you haven't said anything attacking MM4.

I'd go for atm487, unlike Mario, nothing makes me hesitate to vote him.

I can get behind that.

Getting replaced by a pretty good player is pretty pauseworthy, Creature.

Alright so. What I got from this:
DGB scumreads MM4 / NJAK. I'm in favor of lynching NJAK today, because that lynch would give a little more information about DGB.
Who's my vote even on, anyway..?

[Eggman]

EBWOP: NJAC*, sorry. I knew it was a "k" sound, at least.

[Eggman]

Titus and Infinity, I wanted to fully reread Day 1 to refresh myself with the particulars of the Creature lynch. While reading, I found this in F-oh-ex's first post:

Favourite dessert is neapolitan ice cream btw.

Isn't Neapolitan a mafioso role?
Actually reading now.

[Eggman]

Was the NK someone pushing Creature NKed N1?

Also: What does this part of the sentence mean, exactly?

[Eggman]

So I read up to page 24, and it seemed that the Creature wagon ended there to be replaced by the Crabman wagon. So here's some thoughts I had on that.

If Smithereens flips scum, it must make Robbnva very town-aligned.

VOTE: Smithereens

There's absolutely no way you're getting a town read from the very first post a person makes in the game. If you could I'd just copy/paste that post everywhere I went as scum and you'd be none the wiser.

Looking ar smithereen's post again this really bothers me. Creature never said that they got a town read from like one post or something, it was based on the pushes people were making across multiple pushes.
VOTE: Smithereens

Creature is the first player to vote for Smithereens / NJAC

Smithereen's posts do seem scummy but two posts isn't enough for me to make a decision on.

Crabman, who would become the mislynch, gets a bad feeling from Smithereens's first two posts but doesn't feel like they're enough to justify a scumread

OK listen, so I have been inactive lately because I have had alot on my mind and some stuff happened, but listen. I know for a fact creature is town, his posts are very revealing and if he's playing scum, he very good, if not, then he is very good at town too, rooting out the obvious people that have been active, for now, I would like to re-review all the posts and wait a little before voting, because many of us have been active and I am having a hard time deciding who to vote for, my apologies

"I know for a fact"? My "I like your town game, Creature" post is just a roundabout way of saying "I townread you, Creature", but this is the cold hard truth. Scumslip..? Titus, how do you feel about this post from your slot?

OOC: Who is perturbed by the amazing Derek12 account?

Still not sure about the relationship between you two besides "IRL friends".

VOTE: MarioManiac4

Let's go here, his play here is WAY different than his town play I know.

When I'm at L-1 and claim, Creature moves his vote here to try and get rid of some of my pressure. This is a couple posts before his post where he says "Egg crumbed and I think he's VT"

OOC: what was that show from the 90's with the guy who would always say "howdy neighbor"? Was that the one with Tim Allen talking to his neighbor over the fence and they never showed his neighbor's face? I've been trying to figure it out all day and it's killing me

noone gonna hammer the scum?

This also flew over my head: at the time I thought it was just an atm shitpost (no offense meant atm)

I think creature is the scum here.
VOTE: creature
it seems like creature is attempting to tie himself to egg.

Conftown's thoughts on the matter.

Crab smells fishy to me

PUNS

we should lynch crazy

Curious why him over creature?

Dwlee starts the Crabman wagon, Robb objects.

Why so many votes on Crazy when there's an objectively sound case on Eggman and Creature..?

Smithereens tries to steer our lynch back to Creature and I...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Creature

I'm thinking Crazy is a counter wagon to relieve pressure off Creature. Atm help lynch this guy. Eggman isn't happening.

then in 5 posts changes his mind about me and only votes Creature.

Gotta go, I'm seeing a show now.

[Eggman]

The reread does little to answer my question. Like for instance was the townie that died N1 pushing Creature.

Because I didn't understand what your question meant and you didn't clarify after I asked you to.
I do think Dwlee was suspecting Creature before he went to the Crabman wagon, so, yes.

Eggman, do you think creature's recent posts have been scummy?

Not really? His wall, to me, just looks like catching up, but with each point in a different post rather than one giant post. I feel like his reads on 64 are fine, as well.

A question to the more experienced players from a newb: I know the consensus day 1 was that there are 3 Mafia but since it's apparently a multiball or SK exists, can we be still sure of this? I don't think it's a scumslip per se but this post rubs me wrong.

I will repeat, I bet my scumread it's a Vig.

I'm not sure who the third mafioso could be, but I'm pretty sure on {DGB, NJAC}.

Fantastic, help me bus my buddy!

@Egg and @DGB:

Why are you voting me?

Because you're my buddy and I am bus'ing you.

Eggman's reads are a hot mess and he's my other scum buddy.

Da fuq is this

Sarcasm. I hope.

if DGB flips scum i'd honestly use that as evidence to lynch njac

Derek, why the blank vote on Creature?

[Eggman]

Overconfident.

[Eggman]

Nvm, I already saw it, but not sure that was a townslip.

(I don't see it myself, as evidenced by that one post I made. Where?)

Eggman's Read List, Because I'm Not Sure What Else To Put Into This Post Edition:

Eggman: Role PM
Derek12: He has been consistently scumhunting and doing his best. Leaves a good taste in my mouth.
Creature: I liked its posts on day 1, although it seems not many of you did. After its big wall at the start of Day 2, it's been erratically popping in and out
Infinity: Seems like he's been asking questions and thinking his posts through to make them sound like town. Higher than neutral, IMO.

Dragon: still not sure what to really think of them. I know I was somewhat suspicious of them, but I forgot what for. Probably something about the neighborhood.
F-oh-ex: Loses points in my book for agreeing with/defending Smithereens, but has otherwise stayed consistent. Also, Neapolitan soft? Check me tonight bro
Titus: You probably already answered this question, but why wouldn't you need to read the game as town..? Gains points for trying to catch NJAC with a possible scumslip.

(Both of my scumreads replaced into slots that I already found scummy and I have written posts for, so...)
NJAC: not sure I have stuff to say about this slot, so let me bring up the fact once more that both NJAC and Titus had extremely similar OPs.
DGB: in addition to Smithereens' moves, that healthy dose of what I can hopefully presume is sarcasm doesn't help my opinion of her.

[Eggman]

Oh wait, Titus totally top-townread Tsmithereens.

@Titus

: What about his posts did you find towny?

[Eggman]

2.)

Eggman, please place me in your latest Read List. Also, I will ask you not to color code your reads like that -- I have a particularly difficult time reading your yellow text without highlighting it.

Ah. You hadn't posted in a while, so because of life stuff I sorta forgot what I was feeling with you.
But after going through her iso, I'd put PJ down as Strong Town. She definitely thinks her posts through, makes valid points, and asks good questions. (She also read the game )

3.)

Eggman and Infinity 324: you have both pressed on Titus for not reading the entire game. Is there a reason you are not similarly pressing DrippingGoofball for not reading the entire game? They have both literally said they prefer to hunt through direct interactions.

I'd say, because I forgot due to life stuff and DGB replaced in much earlier than Titus and NJAC. But, hey, that's a good point! One more thing to add to my DGB case. Thank you PJ!

5.)

Eggman, how do you know about Neapolitan (Cop) roles? And why have you only seemingly noticed F-oh-ex mentioning his favorite flavor is Neapolitan

now

, as opposed to earlier in the game? Has something changed?

I read through the wiki.
The intent of my reread was for me to look closely and see things I missed, as well as where the Creature wagon started. F-oh-ex's RQS was something that I, on the first read, had missed.

6.)

Somebody sell me on the Creature case. I have a Townlean on him. Why is he scum? I do not find the "lying" about the Eggman crumb persuasive in the slightest. I do not think his Day One hunting by "process of elimination" is scummy. I assume there is more meat on the bone?

Although I'm townreading it, the best reason I can think of for lynching Creature was by our good friend, Smithereens: he believed if we lynched Creature, we could use the information gained from his lynch to come to a conclusion about me.

[Eggman]

NJAC is still scum guys, let's lynch him

[Eggman]

@NJAC:

...alright, where are they?
We need 3 more votes to lynch NJAC; since Creature's being replaced, I suggest... having the people from Creature's wagon hop over to NJAC or DGB and allowing Creature's replacement to get their role during the night?

@petroleumjelly

: Vote NJAC - while it seems DGB is both of our top scumreads, I feel like the NJAC lynch has a much better chance of happening today.

@F-oh-ex:

I never managed to ask this. How do you feel about MM4's defense of Smithereens, given it seemed to you that Smith was your toppest townread?

[Eggman]

@Titus:

@egg, I haven't read a lick of Smithereens. DGB is townie though. Sarcastic, moderately aggressive but not antitown is town DGB.

I asked you this two days ago; since then, have you read any of Smith's posts? If so, what's your impression of him - obvtown, obvscum, or somewhere in between?

[Eggman]

My apologies. I was looking for questions on the current page, and I found none.

Titus: You probably already answered this question, but why wouldn't you need to read the game as town..? Gains points for trying to catch NJAC with a possible scumslip.

What "scumslip" are you talking about? Are you reading the game?

Daytalk is enabled.

Hmm...genuine or fake townslip?

The question is why you didn't call out NJAC for a scumslip there.

Because I needed his response to determine if it was a scumslip or not. Thanks a lot.

NJAC: not sure I have stuff to say about this slot, so let me bring up the fact once more that both NJAC and Titus had extremely similar OPs.

What the similar OPs say to you about my alignment?

NAI, at least without Titus' flip. If either Titus or NJAC flips town, it's just a weird coincidence. If one flips mafioso, it's reason for suspicion on the other, since it stands to reason Smithereens or MM4 could have left a message to their replacement in the PT along the lines of what the OP was.

[Eggman]

[

V/LA tomorrow (7/31) for my birthday.

We're traveling and used up basically all of our shared data plan]

[Eggman]

@Eggman, What do you think of both Creature and NJAC as scum?

I get why people would think it, but I didn't see any Creature/MM4 interactions, so I'm not completely sold. If DGB flipped town, though, I'd be set on this scumteam.

@Eggman

What are your thoughts on NJAC/DBG? I mean them specifically, not their predecessors.

i will come back to this question tomorrow, but for now i'll just say that i feel like dgb hasn't been playing the game completely seriously

@egg: how do you feel about the creature wagon? Is it a possible lynch candidate for you today? And what would you say about me wanting to jump right on your wagon following a Creature lynch if he flips scum?

I suppose it is, but I would definitely prefer the NJAC lynch. And I would say "I understand why you're doing this, and I have nothing else to my defense but 'I'm a VT'".

2) Look: I literally copied, pasted and made minor changes to the first post of Titus. It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with our alignments. Scum wouldn't be that blatantly obvious. If something my entrance copying Titus is "akward" as Infinity said, but not AI.

oooooohhhh
You should have said you copy-pasted from the beginning, then neither of us would be having this silly feud. As it stands, I don't think that's AI at all. Lazy, but not AI. Unless it's too scummy to be scum, but I don't think it is.

Welp, I'm off to bed now.

[Eggman]

Let's actually not lynch NJAC until we're at deadline and have gotten all the responses from Shiro we need to come to a good conclusion about him

Hello, Shiro!

Hello, you guys. How's going ?

I see you replaced into a scum slot

Care to explain, DGB? How does a friendly introduction mean an insta-scumread?

One more thing: most people on my wagon are not trying to figure out my alignment, but rather pushing for a mislynch. Obviously there's at least one or two scum on it.

Bold statement, considering there are only three people voting you right now.

[Eggman]

I preferred MarioManiac4's Day One play to NJAC's play

Why is that?

Largely because MarioManiac4 did not crossvote with crazycrabman at the end of Day One. It was a little gesture that makes me think he is more likely to be Town.

Not crossing = town? If anything it's anti town, since he puts himself closer to being lynched, which is poor form if you're a townie.

[Eggman]

@Eggman

What are your thoughts on NJAC/DBG? I mean them specifically, not their predecessors.

i will come back to this question tomorrow, but for now i'll just say that i feel like dgb hasn't been playing the game completely seriously

Please respond

Aw heck, I knew there was something I forgot.
NJAC strikes me as a little lazy, from his copying of Titus's OP and forgetting to catch up. But his latest post seems OK about that? Also, why did we keep on the daytalk "scumslip" - I admit I skimmed around that part, but it just seems now that Titus was trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, since daytalk is in the OP.

DGB is very erratic. But she's maintained a scumread on NJAC / MM4 since she replaced in, up until NJAC made a post calling out "boring"posts. I don't like that sudden read swap very much, as I'd expect someone's scumreads to stay consistent. Feels to me like a flimsy way to get off NJAC's wagon while keeping her current meta of erratic posting. I don't know.

[Eggman]

@Shiro: have you caught up entirely? If so, who would you say is a viable lynch today?

[Eggman]

For the record, if DGB's lynch gains traction and it's nearing deadline, I'll hop over to it for a lynch.

[Eggman]

Deadline is in one day. Let's lynch NJAC, because he seems to be scumread by majority of the town.

[Eggman]

NJAC is at L-1

[Eggman]

Aight, lynch DGB tomorrow.
PEDIT: No chance it could be refuge in audacity?

@All replacements: if you haven't already, the night phase would be a good time to catch up and read Day 1!

[Eggman]

hahaha infinity was scum that whole time

How the hell did he get killed????

Nice shot..? I'm assuming you vigged Robb and Infinity, and mafia killed PJ because it was the logical thing to do.
If there's an SK, I guess we'll have to wait until tomorrow to find out. Because I'm still pretty sure that the second kills were just a vig.
This quote is confusing though

[Eggman]

Never mind, I can't read
Eh, DGB being the vig makes sense I think, because the vig kills have been more emotional OMGUSes

[Eggman]

@Titus DGB claimed shooting PJ though. However, this probably means we do have another scum - I agree with what Shiro said. And Mafia's kill was obviously either docced/blocked or they targetted the same person DGB did. Same thing would have had to happen Night 1 too though...

I believe Mafia can kill mafiosos; maybe they killed Infinity because they didn't want a replacement? And also for more SK confusion which is always nice.

[Eggman]

Same thing as a PR targeting themselves
Just an extreme form of bussing?

[Eggman]

VOTE: DGB
OK, maybe we do have an SK after all.
ninja'd by F-oh-ex wow

[Eggman]

Legit

We might mot have a vig

Have an sk and you are scum pretending to be a vig

If DGB was SK pretending to be a vig, we still have vig kills being blocked.
If DGB was SK, why not just claim the mafia kill as her own? Survival tactic?

This whole thing makes no sense.

I really don't feel good about DGB or Eggman here.

No matter if DGB is vig or SK, there were two kills in play and one will be removed from the game. If she isn't lying about 2-shot vig, then there will be only the Mafia's kill. If she is SK and we lynch her today, her kill dies with her and there will only be the Mafia's kill.
I think this is good for town either way. If she's not lying, we just lynch a VT. Which isn't horrible?

[Eggman]

Eggman is Town, just confused though.

Yes.

[Eggman]

DGB is a great scumhunter though. If DGB was suggested to be scum by the analysis, that's one thing. I don't see the suggestion.

Lowering the KPN just seems to help mafia at this point since the vig/sk seems to be targeting mafia...

I haven't seen any real scumhunting from her tenure with the slot though, just erratically-changing reads?
@DGB: Who'd you kill night 1, if you'd replaced in by that point? Can you ask Sméagol for what Smithereens did, or is that against the rules..?

[Eggman]

Oh, DGB's at L-1. Huh.
Derek? DotW?

[Eggman]

Well guys I will flip vig

After I do, what will be your theories then?

I'd love to hear them

If only for my future entertainment in the dead pt

I'd say Dragon of the West is the last mafioso, and if he isn't then Shiro or Titus. Because I'm pretty sure F-oh-ex and myself are town. Derek, I have a town lean on, because he was good day 1 but without Dwlee his game weakened, if that makes sense. I also am townreading Shiro's slot, but because of others' arguments and Creature's last few actions I'd support a Shiro lynch if my other scumreads are incorrect.

[Eggman]

NOOO

God damnit why the quick lynch on yourself

This feels fake.

It does to me, too.

Gives me more of a "these were meant for the PT" vibe?
So thirded.

[Eggman]

Well, it seems all of my scumreads were off the mark. Clearly, this means it is time to vote semi-townreads.
@F-oh-ex: if anything, SK is now explicitly deconfirmed. There was only one NK in play because we lynched the other one yesterday. SKs are always compulsive, no? So I believe it's 3v2. So this is LYLO.

I'm gonna do something risky here: VOTE: Derek.
Let's hope this gambit pays off..?

[Eggman]

Since this is LYLO, let's all massclaim in order of the Player List. Dragon, you go first.


(Actually, my gambit pretty heavily depends on my being online, so: UNVOTE: Derek. I place

Intent to Revote

after I wake up. Hooray for not thinking things through!)

[Eggman]

I'm in the middle of wrapping my work up. I don't want to throw everything I think just yet though.

I'm worried by the amount of lurking we have at the start of this day.

[This is probably more for Sméagol, but I wasn't immediately aware the day had started because I didn't recieve a PM.]

Eggman works in mysterious ways.

:y:
I'll try the gambit later tonight, and if it doesn't work then I'll explain it.

I agree with F-oh-ex on DGB's lies. Maybe the reason she didn't come clean before her flip was to psych out the mafia; make them think there's still an SK.

Hey Titus, where are you?

Looks like you've taken one out of my book: say you'll come back in a few, and then... don't.

[Eggman]

(Looks like the board can't handle emojis. I tried posting that post with the thumbs-up emoji instead of :y: and it crashed every time.)

[Eggman]

[Thank you for clarifying!]
Alright, Titus, let's agree to disagree. I think that we could theoretically pull off a massclaim if

we can organize it so that everyone claims within two or three minutes. That way, the mafiosos won't have time to fabricate claims.

With that idea stated, for the record, let's do something different. Why don't we all FoS our top two scumreads, and depending on Town's common consensus we can go from there?

[Eggman]

Alright.
VOTE: Derek
I'll sheep anyone who has a good case. Going with Dragon for now, since I was also sorta scumreading Derek.

[Eggman]

If I don't see a claim in the next post Derek makes, I'm automatically lynching him.

This, too, seems suspicious.
VOTE: F-oh-ex

[Eggman]

UNVOTE:
I think I'll ISO both F-oh-ex and Derek and use those to come to a conclusion, along with what we have already. Expect a post... once I get access to my laptop, so sometime in the afternoon.

[Eggman]

Actually, you didn't. I unvoted.
Will ISO in a few minutes.

[Eggman]

As far as I see it, we're still in RVS, I voted one of the two people who haven't posted yet.

game was out of rvs by page 2

So apparently I still suck with reading some things, pardon my noobness.

When I am forced to catch up (and I often am due to time zones), I prefer to take a few horus to read everything carefully a few times.

Timestamps are consistent.

The reads go as following:
Strong townreads - Robbnva, Smithereens
Townreads - Dwlee (I want to be careful here, however, because he seems to be a very good player and I wouldn't like to underestimate his manipulation abilities as Mafia), Dragon, atm (possible subject to policy earlier)
Null reads - MM4, stelo, Akigoku (aka lurk squad), Derek12 (just noticed I don't really have a read on him. Will ISO)
Scumreads [in that order] - Creature, Eggman, crazycrab (mutually exclusive to be scum with Creature)

UNVOTE: Eggman
VOTE: Creature

Still no Derek ISO, even when he said he would a while back.

If F-oh-ex is scum, it'd make DotW look pretty town.

Scum team: F-oh-ex/atm487/petroleumjelly

I have basically nothing else to say and Creature (conftown)'s quote sums this up well. I'll hammer now.

Intent. FoS: Titus.

Please claim!

[Eggman]

One-Shot BP

I already softed Neapolitan so hard it was basically a claim (add Eggman pointing it out too) so it was obvious I inspected you.

Besides my RQS, where?
Also, do the claims match up?

[Eggman]

I went through Derek's ISO and I couldn't really find anything to comment on, which is the comment itself.
I'll hammer after F-oh-ex shares his result.

[Eggman]

You never explicitly said Derek wasn't Vanilla, which confused me a little bit.
Alright, it's time to hammer. Let me find my picture.

[Eggman]

VOTE: Derek12

[Eggman]

For some reason, I thought that the wagon was on F-oh-ex, which is why I quoted that Creature post. But I did trust in the Neopolitan claim. Nice play with that, F-oh-ex.
DGB, why didn't you claim hitting Infinity?