Micro 622: Queen Mafia GAME OVER

[Postie]

FIRST

VOTE: Postie

[Postie]

DON'T FORGET

VOTE: Aristophanes

Sounds important!

VOTE: Aristophanes

[Postie]

In other news, my vote is now serious.

Why?

[Postie]

UNVOTE:

Why does my gut say the scumteam is BNL/Fire
Ughhh

[Postie]

The interactions between Fire and BNL at the top of this page are giving me weird SvS vibes.

I really didn't like Elyse posts cause they seemed lazy excuses for the posts, but given this reaction by Bullet. I am now thinking its more town, which is by associations, which I hate.

Meh, not enough right now for reading Elyse probably.
Gun to head probably lazyish town.

Bullet thoughts on duppin?

This post in particular is just... ehghrghdfaslsdfjklf...

VOTE: Fire Assassin

[Postie]

Could you elaborate?

It just feels forced somehow idk I'm finding it hard to explain.

[Postie]

I am also not seeing it

[Postie]

I'm guessing FA is going to say I'm scum with Aris for saying that FA is looked upon favorably for the Aris wagon which is stupid since I obviously meant that he's at the forefront of the Aris push. He looks good for scumhunting and stuff. And I'm also scumreading Aris, so if you incorrectly interpreted it as me saying he'll look good because Aris is flipping scum, that's in line with my reads.

If it's something else then idk lol.

Its word choices and tone.
First off lets show case it:

. Postie's FA suspicion just doesn't seem like something scum

would do right now.

This rings of awareness of what scum is likely to do in a certain scenario and words "right now" bring attention that they could act in this way, but aren't doing it yet.

Aris is getting run up, there's some heat on me, FA is probably getting looked upon favorably because of the Aris wagon.

Hyper awareness of the situation. Scum are usually the most aware players of scenarios.

It'd be a weird time for him to switch focus onto FA under no pressure as scum. It just feels genuine.

Timing is key in this section. The idea is that they are aware of what will and won't look good for scum to do in certain scenarios at certain moments in time. Elyse is looking at the game in the perspective as a scum player. They are not looking at it from the perspective of it in the terms they are town and how scum would act, but what they would personally do. This is what I am seeing.

Wow this is so bad.
Fire, please exlpain in detail why

paying attention to the game

is scummy.

[Postie]

I like Elyse for town.

[Postie]

Oh good TTH is town.

[Postie]

I might agree with your premise if Postie were either very green or an exceptionally slow learner but she strikes me as neither. I feel like you're using a framework for a newbie to intermediate-level player on a lot more of an advanced player.

I don't understand what you're saying here at all, TTH.

[Postie]

I might agree with your premise if Postie were either very green or an exceptionally slow learner but she strikes me as neither. I feel like you're using a framework for a newbie to intermediate-level player on a lot more of an advanced player.

Oh, yeah, I get that. I just wasn't following how that relates to Elyse's argument about my push being unlikely to come from scum because it isn't the kind of push people can sheep, so it's not effective at derailing the Aristo wagon.

[Postie]

I take it back Fire's probably town.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: BulletNLynchproof

[Postie]

Postie, can you explain your townread on TTH?

It's a meta read that I'm probably 307% unqualified to make.

[Postie]

Well, for one, she feels like she's actually playing the game rather than lurking and occasionally throwing in a safe post that doesn't progress the game whatsoever.

[Postie]

If you can't answer either of these questions then your meta read is worthless

and possibly fake

.

Also woah there
Bit harsh

[Postie]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=66377

This is the only time I've seen her scum game though, which is why I said I'm probably unqualified to make this call.

[Postie]

also, it's odd to me that you focused on "fake" being harsh here instead of "worthless". I feel like "worthless" should be more offensive to a town!Postie, since town knows by default that their reads aren't faked, but can get invested in their reads and defensive about their quality. "fake" just implies that your justification of the read is scummy.

I already admitted it was potentially worthless though, so not really? The accusation just came out of the blue so I was like, "well, that escalated quickly".

I take it back Fire's probably town.

I'm curious, why?

If my townread holds up I'll explain it at a later date. If say what he's doing right now that's making me townread him then that's an invitation for scum!Fire to keep faking said behaviour.

[Postie]

You thought they were a team earlier because of the interactions between them on page 3, so I take it you like their interactions on this page?

No, it's nothing to do with how they've interacted.

[Postie]

Actually yeah, I think so.

Theres actually a reason BNL might be just weird in general, so its kind of a reason I don't want to lynch him today at all.

This kind-of thing doesn't feel SvS.

[Postie]

Not feeling my BNL vote any more.

VOTE: GuiltyLion

[Postie]

What you thinking on Elyse right now?

I think she's town but it's more of a gut thing at the moment. I just get weird protesty vibes from her posts that feel town somehow.

Postie what's your read on Aristo?

Don't have one. I agree his opening was a bit off, but not off enough for me to consider him a scumread.
I think his wagon is largely, if not completely, town-driven. Maybe there's a scum sitting on it somewhere, but I think the people actually pushing it are likely town.

[Postie]

Postie: I have a slight scum lean there. Her posting is very simplistic and I don't feel like she's putting the effort I expect into sorting people. All the one liners feel easily faked and have little actual backing stated.

Tell me more...

[Postie]

I don't want to quote wall it, but the majority of your posts are just "I like this." "I don't like this." "So and so is town." "This is scum."
The deepest read we have from you is your TTH townread, which is based on admittedly weak meta.

Okay, but like, why is that scummy?

[Postie]

but what about your townread on Elyse?

I think she's town but it's more of a gut thing at the moment. I just get weird protesty vibes from her posts that feel town somehow.

^

Your scumread on BNL?

51 was bad. BNL is bad a lot but that post is like scum-bad.
Just finished a marathon game where he was scum and his reasoning was similarly bad so I'm no longer willing to give him the benefit of the doubt right now.

VOTE: BulletNLynchproof

Your change from that to GL?

His 171 felt like contrived garbage.

[Postie]

171 does read as pretty faked reasoning, I agree. From his other posts though, I'm getting alright vibes and like the questioning and prodding he's doing to keep conversation going. Do these effect your read at all?

No. His other posts are null to me. I'm not sure how familiar you are with his scumgame but he's more than capable of faking this kind of thing.

[Postie]

VOTE: Aristophanes

This doesn't feel like your town play.

Does it feel like his scumplay? Because I agree but I see little reason to suppose this is scum!Aristo as opposed to just different!Aristo.

[Postie]

I'm honestly not sure what to think of this post. You agree that this does not seem like his townplay, so where exactly are you going with this?

I agree but I see little reason to suppose this is scum!Aristo as opposed to just different!Aristo.

[Postie]

Responding to "her scumgame is weak" with "no, she literally got Nommed for a Scummy for it" is not throwing shade.

To be fair, the game people tried to nom me for is literally the only scumgame I have won.

[Postie]

You see little reason to suppose this is scum Aristo as opposed to just different Aristo, but for some reason it sounds like you believe that makes him more town, correct?

Incorrect.

[Postie]

Although I am gut townreading Aristo, ftr.

[Postie]

duppin, are you scum?

[Postie]

I was not throwing shade at Postie, I'm refuting something I believe to be incorrect. Responding to "her scumgame is weak" with "no, she literally got Nommed for a Scummy for it" is not throwing shade.

For us to be a scumteam, I'd have to be scum. And I'm not scum. So...

I didn't vote Postie because I obviously need a better footing here, as I'm missing too many things (as Elyse noted). I need to reevaluate things before proceeding.

Oh.
Well, from my experience, your scum game is not weak at all. I may be tainted by that first encounter though. RC talked you up A Lot! And I respect his opinions on players quite a bit.

These feel gut towny for some reason.

[Postie]

I'm very much opposed to this wagon and I also think the lack of a counterwagon strongly suggests this is a mislynch.
Unvote please.

[Postie]

I guess I will just say that Postie's approach towards her gut townread on Aristo feels different this game than her approach in Word Sneak 2, and I thought Aristo was far townier in WS2 than he is here. In WS2 she said she thought he was probably town but still pushed him on things and asked for explanations, here she's kinda just ignoring him.

I like how you call me out on being different but then just leave those comments hanging in the air without saying anything about what you think they mean with regards to my alignment.

VOTE: GuiltyLion

Back to this.

[Postie]

There was an attempt to counter wagon on me and one on Bullet.

Those have had zero traction though. And the fact that the Aristo wagon has sprung up so organically and no one is being particularly forceful about it I feel rules out the possibility of scum bussing.
This is a mislynch. Unvote.

I am townreading everyone on the wagon and strongly scumreading Aris.

a) Why are you townreading the people on the wagon?
b) Even if everyone on the wagon were town, what does that have anything to do with Aristo's alignment?

[Postie]

I think it's pretty clear what they mean with regards to my opinion of your alignment

Then why don't you just come out and say it instead of aimlessly throwing shade?

[Postie]

When did this opinion change?

Around post 248.

[Postie]

P-EDIT: what's the alignment-indicative difference between me explicitly saying "Postie's townread on Aristo doesn't look like the last time I played with town!her and she has a townread on Aristo,

therefore I think she's scummy

" vs omitting that last part? That feels like a semantic point from you

Because one says "here is why I'm scumreading Postie" and the other says "hey guys have you noticed this thing Postie did? isn't

totally

weird? omg guys look!".
It also leaves room for you to backtrack if people disagree and go "well I never said I was scumreading Postie; I just thought it was weird so I made a note of it".

[Postie]

You ruled out bussing but then ask why everyone being town on the wagon has to do with Aris' alignment. Lol. Bussing this early on day 1 in a micro when Aris isn't an obvious lynch is an unlikely move for scum so a wagon with a bunch of townies on it looks good to me.

Yeah because town never wagon town amirite

Not going through my reasons for townreading the three of them, do you disagree with any?

Do you see my vote?

[Postie]

Are you seriously trying to argue that a town led wagon is more likely to be scum?

That question didn't make sense.

*town led wagon more likely to be on town

No. I'm saying town-led wagons on town happen often enough that saying "this wagon is likely on scum because the people on it are town" is bullshit.

Your reason for voting GL is bad.

Okay. Why?

[Postie]

Except both of us agreed bussing is unlikely. So what wagon composition should I be looking for?

I'm saying it's a town-led wagon on town.

GL didn't back down or take a wishy-washy position when you questioned him which makes me think his intention was to scumread you.

Hmmn, perhaps. It's still giving me weird feelings though. :/

[Postie]

Alright so one of BNL/duppin is scum. Cool.
But in all seriousness what the fuck. If you're both town here I'm going to preface every one of my posts post-game with a sad-looking orange. Not even joking.

Give me a moment to respond to duppin's wall.

[Postie]

I'm going to ask you for the third time (or fourth?), what was the purpose of #244?

And I'm going to give you my answer for a second (or third?) time: I agree this doesn't feel like Aristo's townplay, but it also doesn't feel like his scumplay, so my 244 was me pointing out the flaw in your logic if you were scumreading him for it.

I fail to see the town motivation behind it. Basically what you said was that you agreed this wasn't his town game but just him playing differently, which honestly just implies that he could be either alignment. That is correct.
Seeing as you agree it isn't his town game, don't you think it is a good idea to pressure him to get a better read? I thought so, apparently you did not because otherwise I do not see why'd you post that.

I assumed your vote was a serious vote, not a pressure vote. It would have helped if you'd have said this earlier. Your vote wasn't accompanied by any attempts to engage Aristo, which is what I'd have expected from someone trying to put pressure on him, and so it came across more like an opportunistic jump onto his wagon and/or vote parking. Which is why I called you out on it.

I felt like you were trying to discourage me from voting on him but on the otherhand you weren't willing to commit to a townread. Seemed a bit like fencesitting.

If not having a read on a player is fencesitting then I guess I was fencesitting.

But if that is the case, please explain why you thought he was town at the time? Because the posts you brought up in #279 all came after #244, so obviously they couldn't have been part of your initial gut read on him.

I didn't. I disagreed with your vote on him because I didn't like the reasoning behind it.

Anyway, I still find Aristo suspicious

Why?

[Postie]

If there's an actual case on Aristo I'd like to hear it.

[Postie]

UNVOTE: Wingback
VOTE: Postie

I actually

really

want to move here now, despite earlier strong townpoints on her.

BNL, explain to me why I should believe this isn't an opportunistic scum-jump. Because that's exactly what it looks like.

[Postie]

239 pings me so hard. The overjustified, apologetic unvote of Bullet, the slight shade at Postie, the ridiculous defense of Bullet at the end when you were voting him like two posts earlier.

That was such an awkward and complete backoff of Bullet for "towny toned posts that you missed". Like are you even reading the game? You've "missed" a crazy amount of posts.

I wouldn't be surprised with a Bullet/Aris scumteam.

Being apologetic and over-justifying stuff is just an Aristo thing; it isn't alignment indicative. I didn't see him throwing any shade at me at me either, only calling someone out on calling my scumgame weak; there was nothing there to imply I should be scumread because of it. Saying something isn't a good example of someone's meta is hardly a defence either, especially since he was addressing BNL and not the thread.

So yeah. Aristo's still a mislynch.

[Postie]

Hey guys, wanna wagon BNL? You both have him as null/scum, right?

VOTE: BulletNLynchproof

[Postie]

Now can you explain beyond wagon speed why aristo is a mislynch?
It seems a weird read, you explained away things as NAI so what exactly makes it a town mislynch if only thing is the speed?

I didn't say wagon speed. I wouldn't make a wagon speed argument I'm not that bad anymore god.
He's town because there have been no counterwagons that have gotten any traction. And scum aren't bussing or there'd be people making a bigger deal of getting Aristo lynched.

[Postie]

Other than "gut" and something about ~wagon feels~, is there a reason for this insistence?

OH MY GOD
Scum aren't going to sit there and twiddle their thumbs while their partner gets lynched. They'll either push a counterwagon or start actively pushing for his lynch so they can take credit for it, and no one is doing either of those things.

[Postie]

Sure. But I'm town.

[Postie]

"Counterwagon" arguments are about on the same level as "wagon speed" arguments.

Only because of the possibility of scum bussing and it's pretty fucking obvious there's no bussing going on here.

[Postie]

Thought experiment: what if the partner is relatively inactive?

That's precisely why those arguments are garbage. It's reducing something with a million variables into an overly simplistic model.

Okay so he could

possibly

be scum in a world where Iprobablysuck/Wingback is scum.
Is Iprobablysuck/Wingback scum?

[Postie]

Distinct possibility. I'm not townreading the slot.

Then shouldn't you be holding off on lynching Aristo until you have a read on that slot?

[Postie]

Are you saying I should have what I consider developed reads on

everyone

before voting/lynching? Because If I did that, I would never vote and Day 1s would never end.

No. I'm saying if someone can only reasonably be scum with one particular person then it makes sense to get a read on both of those people before lynching one of them.

[Postie]

GL/BNL gg.

[Postie]

Not sure where you're getting that I think he could only reasonably be scum with Wingback.

If you're talking about our conversation just then, that was just

one

of the things wrong with your reasoning that I just thought of off-hand.

Okay then explain the other things.

I also didn't like her accusing BNL of opportunism.

Why

[Postie]

Postie, what's the benefit to scum!BNL or scum!GL of hopping to your wagon here? Especially in my case, as I was already on a wagon that has a high chance of going through today.

Not only do I not immediately see the alleged scum!motivation for BNL's vote there, your reaction also seemed panicky as it was literally the second vote on you. When I think of opportunistic votes, I'm thinking middle-end of the wagon, not beginning of the wagon.

Because his jump came instantly after duppin's. He had a townread on me and then as soon as duppin made his case he

suddenly

had all these reasons to scumread me.
Although I do feel like I'm more likely to be wrong on BNL than I am you, and TTH is being pretty bad.

GL/TTH?

[Postie]

AHAHAHAHAHA

1st Tier Lynchpool:

GuiltyLion

/

TellTaleHeart

2nd Tier Lynchpool:

BulletNLynchproof

/

duppin

Townpool:

Fire Assassin

/

Elyse

/

Wingback

/

Aristophanes

[Postie]

If I die, you lynch in GL/TTH. No exceptions.

[Postie]

Btw, I'm more sure on GuiltyLion for scum than TellTaleHeart, and fairly sure BNL and duppin aren't partners.

Your possible pairings, from most to least likely, are...
GL/TTH
GL/duppin
TTH/duppin
TTH/BNL
GL/BNL

[Postie]

Postie, why is your scumread on GL so strong? It appears most of your disagreements have been semantically rather than actually scummy things,and I think he's been very town this game.

What has he done that's actually scummy? Because I don't see it at all.

Hard to explain but his scumread on me feels super opportunistic and fake. I just can't see town!GL scumreading me here at all.

[Postie]

I guess what I'm trying to say is town!GL isn't

this bad

.

[Postie]

Anyone have some TTH town games they can link me?

[Postie]

What about it is opportunistic? He has clearly had an escalating scumread on you. He voted you when he decided the case on me wasn't as good as he thought (which I see from town more often than not).

Which just happened to be as there was a wagon building on me.
It's more that the way his read on me comes across as fake is making it stand out as opportunistic though. Most of his reasoning feels so shoehorned and unnatural and unlike anything I can actually see town!GL coming up with.

[Postie]

Why would GL hop off the Aris wagon when it was at L-1 to vote you if both you and Aris are town?

Because I'm scumreading him?

[Postie]

(and Ari isn't)

[Postie]

If I'm right about GL/TTH then them swinging an L-1 wagon over from someone townreading GL to an L-1 wagon on someone scumreading both of them makes perfect sense.

[Postie]

I'm sorry what? That's honestly a pretty bad argument. Basically you're saying my logic is flawed if I'm scumreading Aristo for not playing his towngame? Just because it doesn't feel like his usual scumplay does not mean I can't find it suspicious.

And to be honest I don't really agree that I should say that I'm just doing this for pressure.

Him not playing his town game = most logical conclusion is he is not town.

This seems to be at the heart of our disagreement and I'm not sure there's much we can do about it other than agree to disagree.
I strongly oppose any assertion that anyone not playing to their typical towngame is likely scum because of it. Playstyles can vary from game to game.

But your post gave the impression you thought he was town

Yeah, but, I didn't. Not much else I can say there.

It sounds like you are reaching the conclusion that him not playing his town game or scum game (which I can't tell yet) makes him more likely to be town and that's the logic I don't get.

And again, that's not even remotely what I'm saying. I'm saying that him not playing to his typical towngame doesn't make him scum, and have formed a townread on him

independantly

of that.

[Postie]

BNL joins my townpool! And no, that's not because something something reverse OMGUS. It's because the way he's jumping on and off my wagon makes little sense from a scum PoV.

RE: OMGUS accusations - just because I am scumreading the people on my wagon does not mean I am OMGUSing them. I'll go into detail on my reads in a bit so you have a clearer picture of where I'm at.

[Postie]

Hey GL, tell me what you think of Ari's 436 please.

[Postie]

*426

[Postie]

So his post was scummy for not being logical enough and not agreeing with you enough? Do I have that right?

[Postie]

Oh yeah and

UNVOTE:

[Postie]

Yeah, Ari, see, this is what I was talking about. GL should know better than this.

VOTE: GuiltyLion

[Postie]

Oh my god I was just clicking randomly through GL's post history to find a town game to refresh my memory of what town!GL felt like... and for some reason I clicked quite a while back to a game from 2015 and just like... this is just perfect...

Biggest thing for me (that I still always try to focus on) is to think about motivation/intent, rather than transparency/clarity/effort/sometimes-even-literal-content. It's very easy to nitpick at something that someone does that you didn't understand, or that you didn't like, and assume they must be scum for it. However this is a dangerous fallacy because something is only truly scummy if doing it benefits scum more than it benefits town, if scum are more likely to do it than town would.

[Postie]

Here let's put those side-by-side...

So his post was scummy for not being logical enough and not agreeing with you enough? Do I have that right?

Yeah, pretty much

Biggest thing for me (that I still always try to focus on) is to

think about motivation/intent

,

rather than transparency/clarity/effort/sometimes-even-literal-content

. It's very easy to nitpick at something that

someone does that you didn't understand, or that you didn't like, and assume they must be scum for it

. However this is a

dangerous fallacy

because something is only truly scummy if doing it benefits scum more than it benefits town, if scum are more likely to do it than town would.

[Postie]

Explanations and things!

---

FIRE ASSASSIN

I was compelled to say that because i want to hear more from them in general? Getting an idea of their thoughts might help me understand their thought process and whats going through their mind? I feel like that is the most stereotypical answer I can give you but I also feel like your question is such a time waster. The only reason I am answering it is because I don't want to just post stuff like "Why are you asking stupid questions?"

This feels town. I do not know why.

For example what is your motivation in telling me I have the worst case ever on you?
Trying to get me to change my mind? Discredit? It doesn't seem to be point out flaws.

What is motivation in me to "frabricate" a case like this on you?

I tend to think a town player would either see sincerity in attempts to sort players and just throw me off as misguided town

, but you take the fence position.

I might be conf biasing my read here

, but I really want you lynched more now.

The bolded here is an incredibly towny way of thinking, especially the first bit. The "why can't you see how town I'm being!?"-mindset is something that's very difficult to fake convincingly as scum.

Nice post. I give it 10/10 stars.
Want to go into your read on aristophanes anymore? He hasn't posted in awhile, but this game is kind of dead so lets make busy talk!

see this is me making busy talk

I definitely think scum!Fire in this position would avoid getting snarky, because it makes this post come across as a lot less helpful than it could have been if he hadn't.

---

ARISTOPHANES

Explained in post 279 and 284/336.

---

IPROBABLYSUCK/WINGBACK

Wait, is there really THREE votes on Aristophanes this early in the game? I get its RVS but I've never seen the point in piling more than one vote on somebody in RVS. Not saying anybody there is scum but I don't think you should put somebody onto L-2 so quickly.

I'm not sure why but this paranoia and the way he's expressing it feels extremely towny.

Okay, first off, I wasn't ''worried'' about it. I'm not retarded and I know none of you would actually be dumb enough to hammer on page 2.

Secondly I HAVE seen three votes on somebody before in RVS. I just never seen the point, make up your own joke, don't piggyback off of someone else's :/

And that little comment was to try and kickstart discussion. The game wasn't really going anywhere by that point so I decided to give us a little push.

And the way he gets slightly offended here about people's comments about his comment is a pretty damn towny follow-up and looks really genuine.

---

ELYSE

I'm guessing FA is going to say I'm scum with Aris for saying that FA is looked upon favorably for the Aris wagon which is stupid since I obviously meant that he's at the forefront of the Aris push.

He looks good for scumhunting and stuff. And I'm also scumreading Aris, so if you incorrectly interpreted it as me saying he'll look good because Aris is flipping scum, that's in line with my reads.

If it's something else then idk lol.

Gut town vibes from this, especially the bolded.

You're literally blowing things up to try to make me look bad and now you're backtracking on your read like I thought you would earlier.

Strong townfeels from this.

Now that I've noticed Elyse's join date and post count I'm a bit less confident on this read, but she's still a very solid townlean.

---

BULLETNLYNCHPROOF

Just the way he took me off L-1 and started rethinking his read struck me felt town. As scum it would really make more sense to keep me at L-1 and hope someone hammers.

---

So that leaves GuiltyLion, TellTaleHeart, and duppin. I want GuiltyLion lynched today for what I highlighted in 445;

GL is playing directly contrary to how he

knows

he should be playing the game as town.

After that town needs to decide between TellTaleHeart and duppin. My gut says TTH is the second scum but idk.

tl;dr vote GuiltyLion

[Postie]

Just the way he took me off L-1 and started rethinking his read on me felt town.

EBWOP

[Postie]

aristophanes wagon

Whyyyyy

[Postie]

You keep claiming that anyone not playing their typical towngame isn't necessarily scum which is true, but they aren't necessarily town either.

So what don't you understand? I've already explained that I formed a townread on Ari

independantly

of this (see readswall), not because of it.

I'd mainly like to hear your read on me and TTH.

PoE.
I have a townread on everyone who isn't you, TTH, and GL. I'm scumreading GL. Therefore I believe GL is scum and one of you or TTH is his partner.
Leaning towards it being TTH based mostly on gut (and also now your 461 being mildly towny), but I can ISO TTH to try and pinpoint why I'm feeling that way if you like.

[Postie]

and I think that is town.

u r wrong

If I'm right about GL/TTH then them swinging an L-1 wagon over from someone townreading GL to an L-1 wagon on someone scumreading both of them makes perfect sense.

There's a problem with this. Postie hasn't stated a scumread on TTH before GL voted her.

Why's that a problem?

[Postie]

I don't agree with your analysis on it, and to be honest I think your reasons for townreading me and others are very weak and not very alignment indicative.

I disagree strongly. For example, Iprobablysuck has shown the kind of newbtown behaviour where when I see it I instantly write the person off as conftown until further notice. And when it comes to making a read like that on a newbie, I've never been wrong before. I would bet the game on most of my townreads.

For example "Scum!Fire would not be snarky here" isn't really a good reason, as I can be snarky at any point as either alignment I believe.

Well, sure, but I highly doubt you would have been as scum in that specific context. You had the choice of making a post and either phrasing it in a way that is helpful and potentially gets you townread or adding a snarky tone that instantly makes it look 80% less helpful and town.
Why would you, as scum, purposely choose to write a post in a way that makes you less likely to be townread when you could just... not do that...

[Postie]

First, some context - the post she quoted is from a Newbie game, where someone asked "If you could go back in time and tell yourself one thing about this game before you started playing, what would it be?". So like, from the context of the question I'm answering, it means that the "dangerous fallacy" is a pattern of thinking that I have fallen into before, or tend to fall into, because I'm literally talking about something I would tell past!me. I even say in the quote that I still always try to focus on it, because it's a mistake that's bitten me many times before.

So even if we grant Postie the point/argument that I'm doing to Aristophanes what I said not to do in this post, her argument is weakened because in context, town!me is saying this is a mistake that I should always try to avoid. That doesn't mean I'm perfect, that doesn't mean town!me will never do it.

>says this is a mistake he tries to avoid
>doesn't reevaluate his push on Aristo

Finally, she's ignoring evidence that I'm in town!scumhunting mode in this very game!

Note @ everyone: things don't stop being scummy just because you haven't done them in other places. That's not how scumtells work.

I strongly oppose any assertion that anyone not playing to their typical towngame is likely scum because of it. Playstyles can vary from game to game.

I want GuiltyLion lynched today for what I highlighted in 445;

GL is playing directly contrary to how he

knows

he should be playing the game as town.

Also, Postie - why is your bolded here different than what you said in 435? Because I'm sitting here seeing you saying Aristophanes is not scum for not playing to his towngame, and then saying I am scum for not playing to something I said I should do as town.

In Ari's case it's his playstyle that's changing, which is fine, because playstyles do that. In your case,

it's your level of knowledge about the game

.
There's a huge difference between those two things and you know it.

[Postie]

Postie is universally scumread because she's obviously scum.

lol

When I flip town you are officially fired from scumhunting and sheep my reads instead, yeah?

[Postie]

TTH, Duppin, and GuiltyLion are town, no question about it. Happy to elaborate on any of these if needed.

Humour me.

[Postie]

I do agree that Postie is scummy

Why?

[Postie]

Did I seriously just get hammered without claim? Congrats guys you lynched your doctor.

GL

knows

I'm town. Read his posts about me before the hammer, then read his response to the hammer.
If you don't lynch him tomorrow I swear to god

[Postie]

I hate all this buddying and I can't shake it, and her whiteknighting of me is just too much!
VOTE: Postie

I'll finish reading up soon.

Also this post was awful and I'm tempted to retract my Aristo townread because of it.

[Postie]

Actually yeah Ari can go in my secondary scumpool because of that. If I didn't get lynched, he would have been, so I can potentially see that as a desperate move to buy himself another day.

Lynch GL, then lynch in Ari/TTH. duppin if all else fails.

[Postie]

Sorry postie, I am going to have to ask why you decided to replicate RC posts in this game.

I didn't! D:
At least not intentionally. Sometimes when I'm exposed to people's personalities a lot I absorb bits of them.

[Postie]

I think its GL and Ari perhaps.
I am not seeing TTH as much tbh. duppin either.

I think GL/Ari and game is done.

<3

I would doc you but y'know.

[Postie]

The fact that GL didn't call out Aristo for his awful hammer feels pretty bad too.

[Postie]

???

I explicitly said if you flip town, Ari was scumread #1

Let's not misrep me, thanks.

Yeah, but you didn't point out that his hammer was terrible and he had a scum motive for doing it. I don't see how you'd have missed that as town.
Idk feelsbadman.

[Postie]

We're gonna be chatting postgame

The last person who said this to me in a situation like this was scum.

[Postie]

Okay lol enjoy your rope.

[Postie]

I don't think Fire is a viable mislynch, GL. You're better off nightkilling him.
6.8/10 for effort though.

[Postie]

but 513 may be a bonafide scumslip.

I'll bite: where did he scumslip?

[Postie]

It's hard for me to imagine a town player genuinely reasoning about everyone's alignment making such a mistake. But I also feel like scum shouldn't be so careless either,

So it's NAI but you want to pretend it's AI. Gotcha.

[Postie]

Spoiler: sad orange

the only criticism i have on that front is that postie should have claimed once she got to l-1

Considered it, but I wasn't expecting a quickhammer. >.<

The wagon on me was so frustrating because I still don't fully understand why it happened.

[Postie]

Spoiler: sad orange

Fair enough I guess. Part of the reason I tunneled you more than I should have was probably because I was frustrated with your reads too.