Newbie 1730 - To The North (Game Over)

[enomis]

Hey ya. Don't have much time to read the thread now. Will prolly do it tmr night or something. But i see people asking me to claim?

Also, any Tl:Dr on the game so far?

[enomis]

I am not hard-claiming until i am at L1 and someone intent to hammer. Here's why

Case 1:
I am vanilla townie. Me claiming now would not give any additional info.

Case 2:
I am PR and i have not made any significant check that i think will give town additional info. I also did not , jail keep , save anyone or shot by anyone who were significant last night since two town were killed.

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Also, i think enefpe action of soft-claiming PR actually pushes him more towards town than mafia,(If i look at it objectively and i will explain that in the next post.)

[enomis]

I will look at enfpe objectively in this post(from a 3rd person POV)

Firstly, he looked frustrated when he says something like "i am fucking pr, fuck off". I don't think newb scum would do this.

Now let's look at three cases.

Case 1: He is vanilla Town
Maybe the whole thing was a reaction testing farce? Maybe he became so frustrated that the person he thinks is so mafia isn't gonna be lynched/nobody supporting him so he decided to soft fake-claim to try to push his vote through. There are a lot of possibilities on this.

Case 2:He is PR
According to him, we are in setup C. But there is no way of determining whether we are in setup C or not. Thus i think the most likely conclusion is that he misunderstood the table. Objectively, when looking at the table, i think the easiest way it is misunderstood is that there are only 3 Setup and not 9 in total. So in this case, he is either doctor or tracker and thought we were in setup C.

Case 3: He is scum
So, since he said we are in setup C, this means that he thinks that there are only 3 Setup. A,B or C. He knows whether there is a roleblocker or not. So him claiming Setup C means he knows that there is no role blocker. If not, it would be pretty to dumb claim Setup-C and get counter-claimed immediately by a 1-shot bulletproof townie for example.

So, he thinks we are in setup b or c.
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Actually i realized i am thinking in the wrong direction. But i think what i wrote above stills hold true. zzzz, i think i will go to sleep now(sleep-deprived) as it's 4am here and i think i am abit illogical this late at nite.

[enomis]

Anyway, i can safely say if i am a 3rd person looking at enfpe, I can 95% clear him as town when looking at his iso. So go iso him carefully.

That's all good night. I will read the thread indepth tmr and give reads.

Sorry that you all had to listen to my ramblings.

[enomis]

So you are claiming enfp knew that there was 6 setup but pretended that there was only 3 setup?

How u worded that last para also gives me scummy vibes.

I agree that I may not been very logical ytd as I was awake at 4am and just type whatever came to mind and did not bother to vet.
But I believe what I wrote still checks out.

Your whole argument of what I wrote being shit is because you think he is pretending to know only 3 setup.

[enomis]

Also tell me, how does me claiming help town besides me keeping my 'fake claim' option open.

[enomis]

How is he scummy. I haven't read the thread.

[enomis]

I realised I haven't reply you about my username. It has been my ign throughout a lot of game for a very long time now. I think about 8 years. And yeah, my username was randomly formed at the start. But I later realised that there is a movie called Simone. And in the movie, they show the word simone in the mirror and it turned out to be enomis. Maybe that's where ur fren username come from.

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So do you think he knows only 3 setup or not.
From my pov, that is the only way where he claims that we are in setup c or he is just trolling or trying to force a lynch. I think the first option is lost plausible because either remember I have thought that there were only 3 setup before too in the past, so I could totally see that happening.

And also, my case on vt is not fleshed out because I don't noe why he would do that other than gambling play. Let's say if you are vt and you are in my shoes, can you find a good case for him to do what he did???
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I am sorry if my argument is a little jumpy and hard to read

[enomis]

I will get to reading tonite but It does help me in Reading if I know where to focus. But what transcend listed, in my pov, is not really necessary scum traits

[enomis]

Hey iron stove. I have not read the game. I only isoed enfp. And read all the latest post since I joined. And my post is not utter shit. U just don't see my point.

Since you say that saying setup c is a bad mafia play, then it makes it less likely that enfp,/me is mafia? I seriously think enfp misunderstood the setup and thinks that there is only 3 setups. Why else does one says that we are in setup c when he isn't even sure??

How am I Royally screwed if I claim? Also there is advantage if I don't claim. If I am tracker and I don't claim, I can make the mafia waste a kill on me and I get an extra check if we are c. If I am doctor, I would want to pretend like I am tracker so the mafia will dodge me and kill someone else. I tot this was obvious? If we are in 2, if I am tracker, I would not want them to kill me. And if I am doctor, u may say I may be roleblocked to death. But what if the roleblocker is lynched?? The whole point of this is to make it hard for the scum to choose who to nightkill.

Now what if I claimed instead of waiting until when someone intent to hammer. If there are no counter claim, now what. U basically let the mafia narrow down one option and use their night kill better. If I claimed and u don't believe me, u will still lynch me. If you believe me then, u will believe me now. The difference is, I claim only when it is highly likely when I will be lynched which is helpful to town. How is it +eV for town? Can u explain it to me because I don't see it.

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To ironstove and jou tgt:

Do you seriously think one would try to say setup c when he isn't sure which setup he is in as mafia??!! What is the play here. Because u all do not believe that he misread the setup as 3 setup. There is no freaking play. How is this not towny??!!!.

Or u all think he try to wifom or some shit and since there's no way a mafia would do this, he do this so that we would put him as town.

Really??!!!

This is also why I do not want to claim. Because I think enfp is so towny and there is only advantage to me no claiming.

But you all seem not to agree. I really don't get why.

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I do not panic BTW. If I think not claiming is a mafia play here, I would have claimed and dragged one down with me.

My play as mafia is always to try and play as town. So, if I think this play is mafia favoured play, I would advocate against it and even bring it up on my own if nobody does.

Well, u may not believe me but u can check all my games as mafia. Well if u don't have the time to check, u have to take my word for it.

1---11

I am posting from my phone so it is quite hard to vet and rephrase and I realised I typed a freaking long and jumbled post. Haha. Sorry

[enomis]

That play is soooo... Improbable.
Him misunderstanding is more reasonable

That would put him more town. No?

Then I guess ur vote have to stay there. If 5 town want me to claim, they would have push me to do it. Now I only see u and jou posting after I posted. See if the others agree with me.

If the majority agree with me, u have to suck thumb and scum hunt instead of doing this.

[enomis]

I am delaying me reading the thread tmr. I have work to do and don't really have the motivation to read today. I will be here posting if u need me though.

And if you claim me not reading when i replace in is scummy, it's not. I tend not to read when i replace into games because i work better when i am conversing to find reads.(There are even people who called me out and i got lynched as town 2 times or more for this but i don't plan to change. Because i find it quite to formulate reads just readings 20pages of stuff). I plan to read this time though because i just came back from hiatus and thought it would be a good move. Just no motivation today.

+/- EV is +/- Expected value
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A: Do you read post often? Because i don't. And i already said I am pretty I had misunderstood the setup before, and it was not in my first mafia game. I am sure i am not the only one. The table is quite misleading if you don't read the sentences.

Also, how is he experienced? He is like playing a newbie game as a NEWBIE? Sure he may have played mafia somewhere else but this is his FIRST game here at MAFIASCUM with this new SETUP. If i can even make mistake as someone who played newbie game before, i really don't see how at all this is unlikely. Maybe i am resonating so much with this because i misread the setups before.

You need to get off the idea that him misreading is not very likely.

B. I already explained above. So saying we are in setup C is a degree of certainty you see from scum??

C. Now that you mention this, i thought of one possibility. Mafia is leaving enfp alive to make an easy lynch like this. Mafia probably didnt expect him to flake and me replacing in. Or because they are planning to roleblocked a soft-claimed PR all the way to the end and guess i will get lynched somewhere because i am not "NK-ed"


D. How am i opposite aligned with IV????? This relation is like so hard to find.
Firstly, I must have done something that if i was scum, i would not do to IV(my scum partner)
Secondly, IV must have done something that if he was scum, he would not do to me.(his scum partner)
Both the above points must be satisfied. If not, the relation you are finding is not stable.

And EVEN IF the relation holds true, it is very very speculative to use it to scum hunt. This relation is best used when one of us flipped. For example if i flipped scum, then this relation can help u clear IV as town.

IF NOT, this relation will be wrong most of the time. I am not even joking.

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P-edit:

@Trans

who maf. You think i am town?

[enomis]

Oh you were the guy saying IV having mood swings and other stuff being scummy. hmmm,, I will iso him briefly.

But why is penguin scum?

[enomis]

You think Jou is stubborn town?

[enomis]

In post 19, Joushi wrote:
I'm not sure how relevant it is, but I've started looking through some people's games history. Am I allowed to link these or no? I saw a discussion somewhere about referencing out of game stuff but I'm not sure where it is.

Town Joushi. Agree with IV.


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Also IV

, why did you not claim and your reason was some 5.5 days thingy.
Your reason should have been no one has claimed intent to hammer and not there are still 5.5days. 5.5 days is not a particularly long time and the town need time to switch votes and vote on another wagon and process the information.

Give me your thought process.

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@Jou

, what is it that you see in IV that makes him unaligned with me. The only thing i can see is that he wouldn't defend me that hard if we were scum buddies. Is that it?

[enomis]

why is iron town?

[enomis]

After iso-ing, Ironstove, i think i like him enough to not lynch him today.

Two hardest person on my wagon are towny to me ~.~..

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Karnos: Who is scum and why.

[enomis]

Here's the thing though, if he's mafia why would he be so adamant about not lynching enomis if enomis is town? To make himself appear more town in the process? Actually, if enomis ends up flipping town with IV not explaining why he is TRing enomis so hard, then I would FOS him at that point because only a player who has information that a town player shouldn't have and doesn't want to share i.e. mafia would have the confidence to go against a lynch like this.

This is wrong. Town would have the confidence to go against a lynch like this too. He has been town reading this slot from before enfp claimed "setup C" thingy. He could be town who is so sure of enfp being town after seeing his post.

I often see players having utmost confidence in their read(when they think that read is strong). I am one of them.

[enomis]

fiddlercrabontheroof (5):

ironstove

, Harkonnen97, Transcend,

Skold

, innocentvillager

I think there is at least one scum here. 99% sure. Skold is dead. Ironstove is cool for today.

I think Harkonnen97/penguin. is actually my best bet out of this 5. Dont think transcend is scum. IV is cool today too.

oohh..god this is hard.

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@Penguin

: WHo is scum and why.


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P.S. I have isoed a few people and i think i got the general idea of the flow of the game.

[enomis]

@penguin: OK

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@ IV: i back off from the 5.5 thing.

I would want to hear from you why ironstove is so town though. Cause from my pov, he just played solid town that's all. He could be good mafia playing solid town and i am not that sure on him. I am only really sure on my reads when i think i see something that only comes from town. One example was when i look at enfp iso(well i may be biased since i am his slot, but thats what i think i will get even if i never see my role pm).

So what about iron stove strikes you as so town because your posts reads that way.

I am having a hard time finding scum this game man. It seems like i am townreading alot people.

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P-edit:
@ironstove
Apparently, they don't agree with you.

[enomis]

I will humor you, tell me your 2nd scum beside me.

[enomis]

I am doctor. Happy now?
My predecessor send no action night 1.

[enomis]

Now to make the best of this situation, I think tracker should come out. But if you are cop you should not come out.

Here's why:
If tracker comes out, I can confirm protect him and he gets one extra check. Even if he doesn't come out today assuming we lynch wrong, he have to come out at lylo anyway. So it doesn't make a difference.

If he Is cop don't ever come out today cuz u may be roleblock Ed.

Since scum already know if we are in setup c or 2 after my claim, I think tracker should come out.

This all can wait until everybody posts and no one counterclaim me.
Mafia, do you want to counter claim me??

[enomis]

Actually no, there's no use in tracker coming out.
Can the people other than transcend tell me why they are on the iv wagon?

[enomis]

I am getting bad vibes from iron stove man... Omg

No, tracker do not follow me. What's the point, scum will just kill me once we decide on this plan. If I do not get cced I am like fking town. Can the people who want me to claim tell me now what we get from my claiming.

Tracker is not watcher

[enomis]

Why. Tell me.

[enomis]

Iron stove, I think u got wrong concept of tracker. If the tracker tracks a scum and the other scum kills, the tracker would still get that the first scum did not visit anyone. So he can't really clear anyone.

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I will read more on Karno when I reach home. Maybe it's a bad play for me to claim. But with half the town on my wagon, I think it's just distracting at that point since they won't scum hunt other than pushing me to claim.

[enomis]

Transcend can you tell me why iron stove is town? You can just link me to the post or Smth.

[enomis]

Iv why is iron so towny. Tell me

[enomis]

Joushi: there's is no cc, so I am prolly the doc??

What's there to think about so much

[enomis]

pretty sure iv tunneled enepfe most of yesterday, then today he doesn't want him to claim at all.

why the hell would iv not want his scumread to claim? that seems like inconsistent, fake behavior.

I think ur first paragraph is not true by the way. I isoed iv ytd and he town readed my slot from very early days.

[enomis]

Alright I think joushi is fking town.

[enomis]

You all should probably stop speculating partners.

Speculating scum partners is a bad tactics when neither scum have even flipped.

It is hard trying to find one scum..

It is even harder to find another scum USING RELATION FROM ONE WHO YOU THINK IS SCUM.
This way to find 2nd scum will be wrong 80% of the time.

If you think A is scum and B is scum because of A, lynch A. Not lynch B.

[enomis]

Lynch B and him flipping TOWN gives you NO INFORMATION

YES NO INFORMATION. IT does not make A more towny.

[enomis]

@Transcend: I don't think IV is scum. I dont think you are scum either. The problem with me this game is that i town read too much people. I got to sit down and reconsider my town read.

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I am having this bad vibe from iron stove. I really do. I really don't see his newb town points are strong enuf.

One example: The day chat/night chat thing. I actually asked about this in my first game at mafia scum(As scum). I knew there were night chat and i asked about this to pretend that i don't know. Not saying that this point make him scummy, but u know, it is null in my book.

[enomis]

But i don't think he will be a good lynch today so i am gonna ignore him. But make sure u all reassess your reads of him tmr because i am going to die regardless. I think.

[enomis]

@ironstove: I should be killed. But i am not going to explain why hoping that i will still be alive. I hope scum think the same as you about the roleblock thingy.

@karnos: Yes, if someone has no potential scum partner, it is a town-tell. But he has to have that interaction with 6 of the town? And i am not seeing people using it this way. They are using it to pinpoint scum-scum team to scumread someone instead of town-telling.

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I can see plausible scum on karnos but i would like to sit down and reconsider my reads. I think my read on the game on a whole is off. Gut feeling.

[enomis]

Then please enlighten me the idiot. I don't see the way.

[enomis]

And what the fuck was that vote.

[enomis]

Nice game guys.

My town read on joushi was like so wrong. Gd job Josh.

That day 2 hammer was bleh.....