Newbie 1730 - To The North (Game Over)

[innocentvillager]

IC Post

Hello friends! I am innocentvillager, your friendly neighborhood IC (Inexperience-Challenged). Basically what that means is that I am still first and foremost a player, but I am also here as a teaching role and am obligated to answer any theory/game mechanics questions truthfully regardless of my alignment. So if you have any questions about how the game works or the theory behind certain situations, feel free to direct those towards me! Other players that can help if you want a second opinion or when I'm not around are the 3 SE (Semi-Experienced) players in this game, who happen to be karnos, Skold, and Transcend. Unlike me, however, they are NOT bound by the rules to truthfully talk about theory/mechanics, so keep that in mind. Of course, as either alignment, I will be playing to my wincon. Read all about my guidelines for being a good IC for more information.

Okay! So below I am going to

regurgitate

explain some basic stuff everyone should know on this site! Feel free to ignore this if you have played here before, but if you are new, I highly recommend you at least take a skim! Thanks for playing with us, and I hope everyone has a great experience!

Spoiler: Lynching Mechanics

In Newbie games, a lynch is achieved if and only if at any point, one player has a simple majority of votes placed on them. For example, right now there are 9 players alive, so if at any point in time 5 people are voting for the same person (selfvoting is okay too, but rarely ever a good play), that player is automatically lynched. The last vote is what we call a "hammer", since after that lynch-achieving vote is placed no one may retract their vote, and everyone may talk until the mod comes to close the thread.

Do not hammer recklessly! The more productive discussion we can generate, the more we can analyze interactions to find scum, and hammering too early deprives us of that information. Before you hammer, it is good form to ALWAYS declare your intent to place the hammer vote using bold tags. At that point, you should also ask for a claim, so that we do not accidentally end up lynching a power role (PR).

Lylo, Mylo, L-X

The terms Lylo, Mylo, and L-X (X being a number, usually 1 or 2) exist to summarize the game state based on the majority lynch rule defined above.

LyLo

(Lynch or Lose) is a situation where town must lynch or lose the game (no lynching will lose too). In Newbie games, this is generally true when townies outnumbers mafia by exactly 1.

MyLo

(Mislynch and Lose) is a situation where if town mislynches (lynches a townie), they lose the game. A no lynch may be a good option here to eliminate the lynch pool by 1!

If a player is at

L-X,

that means they are X votes away from being lynched. The most significant L-X is "L-1". If you put someone at L-1, you MUST declare it in bold, since it is very possible that someone will accidentally miscount and hammer said person (and also gives scum an excuse to do so!). Please count carefully in order to make sure that you are not putting someone at L-1 without declaring it in thread.

Spoiler: Common Terms and Abbreviations

(Stolen from Dierfire who stole from Aeronaut)

Here's a quick list of terms you may see thrown around:

IC: Inexperience-Challenged player (that's me!)
SE: Semi-experienced challenged player. These are players with a good amount of experience on the site.
Scum: General term for non-town alignments, in the case of this game, the mafia players
L-#: The number of votes before a player is lynched. (Example, "innocentvillager is at L-4" means that I am 4 votes away from being lynched)
LYLO: Lynch (correctly) or lose. This means that the Town must lynch a Mafia player in that phase or the Mafia will win.
MYLO: Mislynch and lose. This means that if the Town lynches a Town player in that phase, the Mafia will win. This is different from LYLO in that lynching nobody at all does not lose the game.
BP: Bulletproof, a role that can get shot by the mafia once and not die.
Doc: Doctor, a role that can attempt to protect people from nightkills.
JK: Jailkeeper, a role that both protects and blocks its target.
Scummy: An adjective for any action (or player) more likely to come from or be mafia than town.
Meta: A player's past style of playing from completed games as a given role as compared to their current play.
PR: Power Role, any role that is not vanilla town or mafia goon.
OMGUS: (Oh my god you suck) is where a player essentially votes a player for voting them first. Considered not good play.
NK: Night Kill. The mafia's kill they get to use once a night.
PT: Private Topic: The hidden secret forum where the mafia may talk at all times during the game.
Crumb: A hidden message that can be revealed as needed or will be found after your death hinting on what you do with a power role, or that you are that role.
Claim: An outright claim of your role. Please note you may NOT post your role PM, you can only paraphrase it. DO NOT DO THIS UNTIL IT IS COMPLETELY NECESSARY. I will discuss claiming more later.
CC: Counter Claim. This is when someone claims a role that makes a previous role claim false, exposing the previous player as lying.
Hammer: The vote that brings somebody from L-1 to lynched. IT'S IMPORTANT TO DECLARE INTENT TO HAMMER BEFORE DOING IT!
Mislynch: When town mistakenly lynches a player who was town.

Spoiler: RVS

We are currently in the RVS (or Random Voting Stage) of the game. That means that we are throwing around random votes often backed by silly reasons to get discussion going, since we obviously don't have enough information at this point to figure out who is mafia! Eventually the game will break out of RVS phase and we will shift towards analyzing intentions, motivations, etc.

Spoiler: General Tips

There is a lot of theory and debate about good townplay and scumplay, so I won't go too deep into advice here. I really recommend reading the wiki for the first time if you haven't already, if you are interested in theory/good play! That said, there are definitely some overarching, general tips that you should follow.

If you are town:

Be proactive! This is the big, overarching tip for town players in my opinion. Mafia generally benefit from lack of discussion, so it is in your best interest to be a productive town player who is working hard to look for scum. Being proactive can imply many things: anything from posting a lot (avoid "fluff" or non-relevant posting, which induces apathy and is therefore antitown), to asking good questions, pushing cases with solid reasoning, rereading the thread to see if you are entrenched in confbias (or confirmation bias), using your vote to apply pressure, etc.

Play to your wincon to find scum. If you've found likely scum, lay out your reasoning to try and get other people to vote for them.

If you are scum:

There are a lot of ways you can play this one! Above anything else, you should do anything you would do as a town player, and do everything you would do as town to try and "scumhunt". The most important thing to keep in mind is that town doesn't really know what they're doing! Wagons are bound to form and dissolve on both scum and town for any game, but that doesn't mean the people on there are 100% certain at all! Don't freak out if you're getting wagoned, show that the cases are silly (which they often are, because townies are prone to confbias even when they happen to be correct) and proceed to look for scum.

Spoiler: Wiki Links

I highly recommend parsing through the wiki to see what you like. Some articles to get you started:

A Beginner's Guide to being Awesome at Mafia (HIGHLY recommend!!)

Mafia Theory
General Premise of Mafia
Quick Guide to Mafiascum.net
Quick Guide to Mafia

[innocentvillager]

I'm a VT!

I think it would be an appropriate start to a newbie game to accidentally kill a town by hammering in RVS XD

ironstove, if this was a serious claim, it was very antitown. Don't clarify whether it was or not (best to give mafia as little information as possible), but please keep in mind for the future that in general, claiming when you don't have to or have no incentive to benefits mafia because they can get closer to figuring out who the PRs are. You had 3 votes but you were not at L-1 yet (and it is still RVS), so you were not in danger of getting lynched. I can go over this more if you have any questions!

Ayy so work is slow. Let's see if we can get a full post in!

I'm not sure how relevant it is, but I've started looking through some people's games history. Am I allowed to link these or no? I saw a discussion somewhere about referencing out of game stuff but I'm not sure where it is.

Feel free to quote or link

completed

games! If a game is

ONGOING

, however, please do not make any mention of it. It's site policy, but in a way also common sense

1. How long have you guys been playing mafia?

I've played in-person mafia a few times and prefer it to online mafia with the right group of people! However, in-person mafia requires a lot of people, which isn't always easy to organize (plus, you need to find the right people). That introduced to me to epicmafia a few years back, which is a chat based outlet for playing mafia. I was very active at that time, but don't play as much on there anymore. I like mafiascum a lot since the long days really make you think critically and carefully. I've been on site for 4+ years, but I took quite a few hiatuses in there, so I'm not actually as scary or experienced as I look! In fact, this is my first time ICing a game, and I hope I make a good impression of this site on all of you!

2. In a 7v2 setup like this, what do you feel is the best approach to finding the scum?

Once we advance out of RVS (usually happens when people start to accuse or put pressure on nitpicky things done in RVS), we should scumhunt as much naturally D1, D2. Natural scumhunting can include asking good questions, posting analyses, critically analyzing posts, watching where people place their votes, looking for insincere scumhunting/underlying motivations, etc. It is best to let the PRs do their jobs for most of the game and for them to stay hidden until they get some sort of a result. Every Newbie game has either a Cop, Jailkeeper, or a Tracker, who can receive very substantive results that help us in game during the night. We should ideally lynch every day we have an odd number of players in order to get the maximum amount of information possible, and we almost always want these lynches to happen in the second RL week (a day or two before the deadline is generally best). I can explain how the lynching procedure works more later as we crawl towards the end of Day 1.

3. Is your playstyle more engaged in posting or do you like to sit back and follow activity of others to get your reads? Do you have a different style when you play mafia or town or is it the same?

My playstyle varies a lot. Many times I am rather aggressive and weirdly proactive. Sometimes I am extremely lurky, mostly due to RL commitments. I tend to be aggressive/defensive as town and try to emulate that as scum, but it really depends on how I'm feeling. For example, this game I will be playing pretty differently from my normal games, since I am ICing and I am bound to certain criteria to set a good example for new players on this site

[innocentvillager]

I'm not sure how relevant it is, but I've started looking through some people's games history. Am I allowed to link these or no? I saw a discussion somewhere about referencing out of game stuff but I'm not sure where it is.

Also, I am curious:

1) When did you start looking at peoples' game histories (like before the game started, during the game, right after it started)? I'm guessing you're referring to the players in this game?

2) What are you impressions from what you've seen from other people?

----

I have a townread on ironstove, a very slight townread on Joushi and Soula, and very minor gut scumread on karnos.

VOTE: karnos

Really guys, it just started. What good reason is there to lynch Ironstove at this point? Karnos and Skold seem kind of suspicious voting off the bat like that, unless there's something about this that I'm not getting. That said, Karnos accusing someone of being scum without them even posting is really weird. Either they aren't thinking before they post or they are scum and made a little slip at the beginning. hmmm. I'll be paying attention to them.

Sorry for posting it a bit late, but I will direct you here to the "RVS" spoiler section of my IC Post. Ironstove is not actually in danger of being lynched, so long as every refrains from putting people at L-1. In its most basic form, RVS is where people vote, often for silly reasons, to try and kickstart the game. I don't think people who are voting for ironstove actually want him lynched (unless they're scum and ironstove is town, lol). It is still, of course, important to be careful in RVS so as to not accidentally lynch someone. That is why we should always

BOLD

whenever we put people at L-1 or intend to hammer. Ironstove was at L-2, so so far he is okay.

You can go ahead and make a vote too! If you see something even remotely scummy at this stage, cast a vote down, and let me know if you have any questions!

[innocentvillager]

Okay townread on Joushi.

Effort is definitely not necessarily alignment indicative, I would definitely agree with Skold. It depends on the player. Just because Transcend is putting more effort into this than you saw in his past two games, doesn't mean he's more likely to be scum necessarily. But it's a good observation.

Now, if he continues to play completely differently in this game from either of those two towngames you mentioned and somewhat similarly to a scumgame or two, then it's worth scumreading him or noting him for.

To me, this is implying more effort than normal, which implies scum.

Yeah, no.

I understand what he means by this tho. I've noticed in experienced that OVERALL (not all the time) scum tend to be a bit more tryhard than town because of several reasons.

1. Scum have to put up a fake persona. Town can be genuine and carefree.

2. Scum already know who's who so they have to create scenarios to make everyone believe that someone they frame is scum. Which involves more effort.

3. IMO a scum win is more satisfying than a town win. I've had an epic town win and an epic scum win on this site. I can say I tried much much more on my scum win but I tried really hard in both games. Anyways, being able to say "haha I fooled you all mwhahahahaahha" is much more satisfying than "haha i found you out better luck next time ". However this is just me.

My response to your 1 and 2 is that yes, scum probably have to invest more time/effort into a game, but they will generally spend more time and effort than a townie would per post. For example, I post pretty similarly in both my scum and town games activity-wise, but writing up posts is a lot more difficult for me than writing up town posts. So while scum games actually take up more time for me as a whole since I am fabricating each post carefully, it rarely will show through my activity level. Of course, I am only one example, but my point is that I think you may be conflating behind-the-scenes effort with surface-activity.

I agree with 3 actually in that scum wins are more satisfying than town wins, but I still think it is outweighed by other factors, or at least balanced out.

Regardless of all of this, I don't believe that an in-depth theory discussion on this will be important. I think it's a good idea to treat activity in and of itself as NAI, but if coupled with other tells, it may be important.

I'm more interested in posts like this:

Anyways I actually agree more or less with all of IV's townreads thus far, however his vote on karnos looks a tad bit opportunistic as I feel karnos' post wasn't super alignment indicative.

It looks like you voted me for an unstated reason, but now you're justifying it here. What made my vote opportunistic? I'm not seeing it.

[innocentvillager]

I'm assuming that threads that are in "endgame" are considered to be over here, so please let me know if I can't link them in the future! They all have the reveals done already so that means it's not ongoing to me.

Yep, if mod has revealed everything and declared a winner the game is over!

[innocentvillager]

who I accidentally referred to as IC instead of IV in my previous post

I am indeed IV the IC

chill it with the walls please

a wall every once in a while is fine, but walling in every single post is going to make some players (me) not want to read you.

try condensing your posts

Lol.

Honestly, I think walls are fine if they contain a lot of game-advancing content—how is spreading the same stuff out over multiple posts in any way better?

I completely agree that, if there's a lot of fluff in there, walls induce apathy. But I see no reason to "chill it with the walls" if people can ensure that their walls have lots of good content. You not wanting to read people solely for "walling" kind of just sounds like laziness.

[innocentvillager]

Okay, before we talk about anything else:

Skold is pretty town.

How the hell did you get this? You're either a super-scumhunter, misguided, or scum. I don't see a single post of Skold's that is AI (Alignment indicative), given that they are ALL either RVS/contentless, or just talking about theory.

That is basically all Skold has done all day. Even I have done more than Skold by at least giving reads, helping out newbies to an extent, and asked some questions. We are still kind of in a weird RVS-to game day transition, so there's no way I'm going to be aggressive yet.

So please enlighten me as to why you are townreading Skold and scumreading me even though "I'm talking a lot but not saying much" or however your argument against me is phrased.

---

@Transcend I may have not made it very apparent, but I was asking you a question here. Can you answer it?

Anyways I actually agree more or less with all of IV's townreads thus far, however his vote on karnos looks a tad bit opportunistic as I feel karnos' post wasn't super alignment indicative.

It looks like you voted me for an unstated reason, but now you're justifying it here. What made my vote opportunistic? I'm not seeing it.

[innocentvillager]

Apologies, but I will be V/LA until Monday afternoon. I've been ignoring RL duties/exam week but I'll try to still post maybe once or twice at least.

[innocentvillager]

Can someone summarize the case on me with specific examples of what I did was scummy? It looks super buzzwordy and nonspecific from what I see so I need something that I can reasonably defend myself against. And will do so after V/LA is over. Free feel to quote previous posts you've made!

[innocentvillager]

Transcend, that kind of attitude is

never

okay, especially in newbie games.

[innocentvillager]

Besides that, I find his scum case towards Enefpe to be a bit weak, but this has already been addressed by others.

never made case on him.

[innocentvillager]

Alright genius. So IV, who has been pretty much absent and only made some meta-posts about the game, you read as hard scum? OH REALLY. Fine, I'll play your game. But if he flips green, you got some explaining to do.

Here is a read for you. The above is a huge scum flag, setup so you can miss lynch IV without being blamed for the lynch and turn it into a miss lynch on Transcend the following day.

Um

Why is your vote on me then

There is no continuity in this post

VOTE: karnos

[innocentvillager]

No I think I've seen enough from you. You can just die.

Uhhh... it's kinda fine actually. Bit crass but nothing personal, and honestly we aren't going to get anything solid D1.

Transcend, that kind of attitude is

never

okay, especially in newbie games.

Skold and Transcend, I said this because this is a terrible way to play as town especially (and it's almost too blatantly bad if it's scumplay). Going into shut-off mode after just like 5 pages in is terrible. I asked for a case on me or a summary of one, he not only gave an attitude (bad, but not alone horrible), he is completely closed off to the idea of me being town.

That said, I have yet to see a case on me. I can't really defend myself without a clear case on me.

The higher the person is on the list the more likely I think they are to be town.

{ironstove}
{Skold, Joushi}
{Enefpe no Time}
{Mori, karnos}
{Soula}
{innocentvillager}

Thoughts?

Readlists are a lazy way of contributing and that list is completely arbitrary.

dgaf

More attitude from Transcend. Here, you are clearly the one who asked for thoughts. You got thoughts, and just because they're not what you wanted to hear, you push it off. ENGAGE other people. Engage your townreads, engage your scumreads to show evidence that they're scum, etc. I think you could be a good player if you weren't so closed-minded (idk if it's just you think game, or what), tried to engage with people instead of complained and blanketly accused in-thread, and attacked people with actual content. I know you hate walls, and it's clear from your posting that you do, but if you expect to be a good player this game I highly suggest you use more effort to engage players with logic, and sometimes that requires "walls".

Liking this infighting, beginning to understand who is town more. I still dont like joushi. Lots of weird energies in this game. At a glance i am dubious of soula for saying i have been "floundering" but this response is ego based. Goin to be camping the next few days.

Innocentvillager is a strong lynch, still. Read his posts. They have a very fakey tone.

Enefpe, like all of your other posts, this is what we call a blanket accusation. It's extremely arbitrary, and you're not actually pointing out any specifics here. As a town member, you're trying find scum, but also to convince people to vote for who you think is scum. You can't just say something like "read his posts and you'll see it's fake." That's not convincing, nor are any town members going to take you seriously for something like that. I suggest, if you truly think my posts are fake, go back and point out specific quotes of mine that look fake, and explain WHY they look fake. Of course, I think you are maybe too entrenched in confbias here, and will begin to see all of my posts as fake, but the point is for you to be able to make your own case on me and convince neutral town members to vote me.

All of this said, I think karnos needs some examination. I really don't like that he attacked Soula for putting me at L-1 trying to "ML" me. It looks almost as though he knows that I am town and that I am going to get ML'd, yet his vote remains on me. It doesn't sound like a town-motived player at all.

[innocentvillager]

Nice manufactured rage trying to town tell. Obvious scum is so obvious with the linear brain strats.

Ironstove, I suggest you stop this attitude as well. I'm not seeing the "obvious scum" that you accuse Skold of, and you are not helping your case by not explaining or pointing out specifics. It seems like you, along with Enefpe, may be too entrenched in confbias to evaluate accurately. If not, show us with specific quotes and reasoning.

[innocentvillager]

If you think I'm scummy, then vote me. There's been momentum on me. Why have you pursued shit-lynches like Mori whom you don't even fos over me who you do fos?

Ridiculous. Pretty much all of the scum tells have been laughable up to this point. People just keep harping on little things and seeing what they want. I voted Enefpe because she/he made accusations and then wouldn't back them up, which I could easily see a newbie mafia doing without realizing how obvious that makes them. That's a lot more reasonable then going after people because you interpreted their posts as scummy. I voted Mori because I don't like the unknown factor. I followed a game where some players were more or less absent the whole game or subbed out only to turn mafia at the end. That totally ruins the game. If wanting to avoid that makes me look scummy, then I've pretty much lost interest in this game. And feel free to vote me.

And honestly, I don't think you're scum at this point. Scum-reading me over one little thing is a little annoying, but your play-style has been too overt and prickly for mafia. You're making yourself a target and that doesn't really make sense to me. It would just make the game a lot harder for you to do that. It doesn't add up. But if you are doing that and manage to pull it off, I'll be impressed.

No, I'm sticking to Mori for now because I want them to post and join the game; otherwise I want them gone for the huge annoying unknown factor. If that makes me scummy, so be it.

This an extremely town post from Soula.

Here are some of my reads at this point, I'd be happy to elaborate on any of these if you'd like:

-Random Disclaimer: Btw, I'm not a particularly fan of the "Ranger style reads" that Transcend (and many other scummers on here) have been using, since often it is unclear where people actually stand on the spectrum; it only shows reads relative to each other. I think people only use them because they look elegant, but it really doesn't say anything about how scummy or how null/town, etc. different people are. If anyone still chooses to format their reads as such, I suggest you clarify where null is, where strong town is, and how far important people are on the spectrum.

Reads

Town: ironstove, Soula
Lean Town: Transcend, Joushi
Null: Enefpe, Mori, Skold
Lean Scum: karnos

[innocentvillager]

If I hammer iv and he flips town will you all stop with your awful reads please?

*IC hat on*

Ironstove, we still have more than 5.5 days, *IC hat off* and no good case on me exists *IC hat on*, so it is not good theory play here to hammer. *IC hat off*

I highly suggest you look at karnos. What are your thoughts of his scumread on Soula for putting me at L-1 to "ML me", but then subsequently not switching his vote from me to Soula?

Also, I would be interested for you to elaborate further on your Skold scumread, blanket accusations aside.

[innocentvillager]

Dude just trust me, you think I'm town. He is scum... Karnos is 90% scum so he's the Lynch

I'm not even sure if you're that town anymore. You're voting literally the wrong person then. So who are you scumreading??? Skold or karnos??

Iv I would read too much into his accusations the guy is just probing cuz it is d1 n getting reactions n reads. He's just walking around sniffing everyone's butt to see who is the liar

Blanket accusation. No one is going to take you seriously if you boldly accuse like that, let alone get your targets mixed up.

Alright genius. So IV, who has been pretty much absent and only made some meta-posts about the game, you read as hard scum? OH REALLY. Fine, I'll play your game. But if he flips green, you got some explaining to do.

Here is a read for you. The above is a huge scum flag, setup so you can miss lynch IV without being blamed for the lynch and turn it into a miss lynch on Transcend the following day.

Um

Why is your vote on me then

There is no continuity in this post

It's a scum read based on Soula having inside knowledge that you will flip town. Of course if you actually flip scum, then that will show the read for just being a red herring as many reads are.

It wouldn't make sense to switch votes now, it's a conditional read on Soula based on your flip- which we haven't seen yet.

I guess that makes sense, but it didn't seem conditional (the way you phrased it). I'm still minor scumreading you.

Karnos, is your only reason for voting me the ratio of IC to "scumhunting" posts? Which is a laughable accusation when most of said posts were 3 pages in and there was a lot of newbie-confusion going around.

A man does not respond to a question from a scum.

This is false. As town, you SHOULD want to engage your scumread, in an effort to reevaluate whether or not you are actually on the right track, since the more you engage with them the more you can see their thought process and make a firmer decision on whether or not their reasoning is fabricated, has ill-intent, etc., so that you can actually have more concrete stuff to show town.

BTW I feel this is obvious but just in case I'll mention: if you're L-1 n a pr you need to out.

I will not claim with 5+ days left. Like I said with my IC hat on (don't forget, I'm not allowed to lie about theory as an IC), this is a rushed lynch with basically no evidence and I refuse to claim until someone shows me a decent case.

[innocentvillager]

This post is basically a scumclaim. Ironstove, please hammer.

You have no case on me, and your push is fucking shit. Come at me with actual content, and maybe then we can talk. Your attitude this game especially but not exclusively towards me has been unsubstantiated, lazy, minimalist, stubborn, and accusatory with no content.

Again, you have no case on me. You saying "I've basically claimed scum" is not productive town behavior at all, and it needs to stop.

Content, Transcend. It's not that difficult.

[innocentvillager]

I'm trying to keep my posts as tempered as possible since I am an IC this game and I don't want to rage at the newbies but I'm seriously getting sick of this unsubstantiated scumread shit. There's no fucking way I can defend myself against a horribad lynch if no one comes at me with concrete content.

[innocentvillager]

Wait ironstove who are you scumreading?? Karnos, skold, or both? You never even answered! I'm giving you a chance here to correct what others might have tried to frame as a slip. You are just tunneling here with literally no basis and confbiasing yourself into believing you have found scum when you obviously have not.

Ironstove, I tried telling you nicely in previous posts. In the least sugarcoated way possible, stop fucking accusing people like me, skold, karnos based on nothing, or blanket accusations. Pull your head out of your ass, and engage people with logic. I promise, that is how you play this game. Not what Transcend is doing here, he's a fucking terrible example of how play on this site should be like as either alignment (maybe less so as scum).

[innocentvillager]

Karnos, is your only reason for voting me the ratio of IC to "scumhunting" posts? Which is a laughable accusation when most of said posts were 3 pages in and there was a lot of newbie-confusion going around.

Karnos can you answer this?

[innocentvillager]

k what else then karnos

Also can you refute my refutation of why that scumread is

Come on, you're an SE, you should know better.

@Enefpe You need to answer my question on what specific posts you find fake, and if so, why. What you are doing currently is terrible town play if you are town.

[innocentvillager]

Whatever, if you want to be a stubborn dick about it fine, I'm not going to even bother to try and help you correct your horrible play anymore.

[innocentvillager]

Actually knowing that you are soda on EM makes me not townread you anymore since I can see scum!soda pushing a horrible wagon like this.

On that note:

@Enefpe, this is nothing like EM. Mafiascum is not meant to be played like EM. On EM you can get away with short, stupid phrases like "why me fry me" or "lynch this scum flailing dude"; basically AtE and gut bullshit, but on here, when we have a day that is 2000 times longer, you're actually supposed to use reasoning and examples. Gut is fine, just don't base everything off of gut and push for lynches you can only justify with "gut". Find some concrete reasons to scum read people.

I know I got frustrated with you earlier, but knowing that you are from EM makes more sense since I also transitioned from EM and still play on that terrible yet weirdly addicting site sometimes. It's a transition out of EM, but I promise, it will come with time. With a lot more content that people post, there are a lot more things you can notice in people other than the quick "tone" stuff you might look for in EM.

[innocentvillager]

Tbh I also scumread IV,

if he was really town he would have just asked to be lynched

knowing the people who FOS him are suspect, and karnos trying to jump off the lynch train is also FOS because he knows if IV got hammered he would be next.

Ironstove, town never wants to be lynched ever. Just because two people are pushing for my lynch does not mean they are scum. Just because I scum read people and I flip town, does not mean they will be lynched, and even if they are lynched, that does not mean my scum reads are confirmed scum. The point is, town has basically 2 chances to screw up the lynch before it's LYLO (lynch or lose), and no town should want to be one of the two MLs at any point.

[innocentvillager]

^That was theory with IC hat on, so I'm not lying to you about this.

[innocentvillager]

@Enefpe: I am leaning scum on karnos, although this isn't too concrete yet. I'm getting mixed vibes from you and Transcend, and by PoE/gut I think it's very possible that one of you two is scum. I posted a reads list earlier, for the most part it has remained the same. Ironstove has dropped down on my town list though, and is more at a lean-town for now.

126 is the best I've seen.

If this is a case, it's the weakest impact case I've ever seen that's not refutable.

Ratio of IC posts/"scumhunting posts" in the first 2-3 pages? Seriously? How is that even an AI argument? Where is the scum motivation, where is the town motivation? I am an IC who is trying to help newbies figure out the beginnings of the game. There's not much scumhunting to be done in RVS, and honestly I did a lot more "scumhunting" in that time than most players, even if there was basically nothing to go off of and we were still in RVS. It is literally my job to answer theory questions/stuff, and a lot of it usually comes up near the beginning of the game.

I think karnos said that was ONE of some unknown number of reasons he was "scumreading" me, if it was the only reason, if it were up to me I would revoke his SE status and make him /in as a Newbie again.

So keep trying.

[innocentvillager]

I've agreed with most of what you've said, but I disagree here. I think it sounded pretty townie to me, if a bit aggressive. Calling people out when all they do is give themselves outs is an important thing to do. You're more likely to try and leave yourselves outs as scum imo.

You misunderstood my issue with this post. My issue here was that karnos scumread Soula for putting me at L-1, while he himself was still voting me. He makes a strong accusation against Soula for setting me up for an ML, but he makes no effort to change his vote to Soula at this point, if he is attacking Soula for "knowing that I'm town". He later clarified that his scumread on Soula was conditional on me flipping town (and he was still scumreading me), but if I'm flipping scum then obviously the conditions for his Soula scumread weren't met so it is void.

I still had an issue with his post for two reasons, the first I already stated:

1) The post didn't look conditional. "Here is a read for you. The above is a huge scum flag, setup so you can miss lynch IV without being blamed for the lynch and turn it into a miss lynch on Transcend the following day." Does that look conditional at all? It is a blatant accusation of trying to ML someone, yet he doesn't do a thing about it with his vote. There was no "If IV flips town" clause here or anything that hinted at that. The wording still implies that he knows I'm town.

Now, this wouldn't be scummy if he was townreading me. But he claims to be SCUMREADING me. That means, in town!karnos's mind, there is an implicit consideration of me as scum. To accuse Soula of trying to get an ML off of town!IV without any conditionals suggests that karnos does not actually scumread me, which suggests that he is scum/fabricating his read on me/knows I am town.

2) On a rethink as I'm typing this up, I've realized I also don't like it because it could set scum!karnos up to mislynch me, and then based on that conditional, pull an ML off of Soula the following day due to me flipping town. This is more of a convenience/speculative tell, but it still doesn't sit right with me.

@karnos: Why are you actually scumreading me, then? You made that IC/scumhunting argument which I explained in two separate posts why it was terrible, you blanketly called my ISO bad at one point, and now you haven't responded to my refutation of your sole disclosed reason.

[innocentvillager]

To accuse Soula of trying to get an ML off of town!IV without any conditionals

of "If IV is town"

suggests that karnos does not actually scumread me, which suggests that he is scum/fabricating his read on me/knows I am town.

EBWOP (Edit by way of post)

[innocentvillager]

I think it's too early to bus a teammate, so if IV flips town then I'm tunneling karnos/skold like fuck.

I really want to lynch karnos today.

Your vote says otherwise.

I don't understand what's going on in town!you's mind, and it's starting to make me wary of you.

[innocentvillager]

Yeah, actually I don't really like it either. I kinda brushed it off to the side since I think Soula is town, but that is a pretty disgusting post.

I still don't think he's today's lynch at all though. I'll rethink him tomorrow.

[innocentvillager]

ironstove reminds me of me in my first newbie game. I wonder if he will hammer Transcend?

@Karnos

, I got a huge town vibe from ironstove earlier but now he just seems trigger happy and will literally go for any vote. I'm becoming conflicted on him since his play has become almost radically differently from when he was townread.

Like, his most recent posts were:

Iron: Soula is scummy
Soula: blah blah blah
Iron: VOTE: SOULA
Soula: Fine vote me
Iron: VOTE: karnos
Iron: karnos is scummy but IV gives info

So my question here is, why does ironstove look like you in your first newbie game (I'm assuming you were town in that game)? I'm assuming you're referring to his later D1 play since you said it recently, which I can reconcile with newbscum play. I'm trying to figure out if ironstove actually has scum!motivation behind these posts or is just confused accusatory townie.

K douchebag I'll stop spreading "bad theory" but watch me be right in postgame when you hand innocentvillager a cake walk scum win.

Hey soda, no personal attacks on this site please. You can do whatever the fuck AtE you want on EM to win but you can AtE here without RL insults like "douchebag".

[innocentvillager]

Everything in the last few pages is dumb and probably ought to be ignored. This is what happens when I don't bring sense to this nonsense. Nobody has anything in terms of evidence. Nobody is at all guaranteed to be any alignment except yourself. Stop spreading bad theory plz.

Hey Skold, instead of blanketly telling everyone they're full of shit, I suggest you give examples as to what you think was full of shit and why, so you can "bring your sense to this nonsense".

If you're referring to the terrible baseless wagon on me I can understand lol but you should still engage with specifics instead of generalities.

[innocentvillager]

Eh, Fine. If it's going to come to that. But once I flip green, don't forget about Karnos and Transcend. Even if I suck so bad to get outed in the first round, I'm happy if it helps get a mafia.

Soula this kind of thinking is completely wrong. If you're town, you should never want to get lynched regardless. Town only has 2 chances to ML and then it's down to LYLO. Town should never want to waste an ML on themselves, no matter how confident they are in their reads (since a lot of times, they're wrong!). You'd be surprised that scum isn't necessarily always the one pushing a town wagon. Sometimes, wagons on town are completely devoid of scum. So just because someone flips town, doesn't mean people pushing that person are all immediately significantly more suspect.

[innocentvillager]

What happens if we lynch our IC? Is that like killing jesus?

Lol definitely not. Treat me as you would any other player in the game.

The point is, someone has to provide the newbies with truthful theory guidance. It definitely shouldn't be the mod's job, so it's the job of one of the players. I am that player who you can always count on to never lie to you about theory.

Besides that, I am just a normal player. If you think I am scum, vote me. If you don't think I am scum, don't vote me. It's that simple.

[innocentvillager]

This just in: i got bum fucked by karnos when he was scum. I'm gonna have to be extra careful about him. >:(

K still p sure iron karnos joushi and skold are town.

Iv needs rope. Now.

soda what happened to karnos between this time

[innocentvillager]

Also how sure are you that I'm scum

Like what's the probability I flip scum in your mind

You don't even engage me with reasoning anymore when I've asked for it like 5 times so I've given up on that for you

Are you so confident that you'd be willing to selfvote on D2 for it

Just curious.

[innocentvillager]

omg you've finally finally given a case no matter how minimalist and flimsy instead of yelled/AtE'd at me

this is a start soda, this is a start.

Will respond tomorrow, need some sleep but wanted to congratulate you for finally doing something protown

[innocentvillager]

Guys please unvote Enefpe. We are looking elsewhere for our lynch.

I suggest karnos.

[innocentvillager]

I am inclined to believe Enefpe's PR claim, it looks frustrated newbtown.

I highly disagree with Enefpe's lackadaisical style of play and attacking the whole "debating" idea in mafia, but it sounds like it will just devolve into a useless theory discussion when we have 3 days left to lynch IMO, so I don't want people to respond to Enefpe on that for now. We can get to it D2 if it is necessary.

Let's focus on who is scum here.

I'm not seeing the towniness that people are getting from karnos.

@Transcend/soda

why is karnos town here?

[innocentvillager]

Anyways iv, two fold

1. Are you from EM? You've referred to me as "soda" aka the name I'm more well known by on that website as opposed to this one in several posts. If yes, who are you? If I know you I'll take account into any meta I may or may not have with you on that website to here and it might help your case.

2. The reason I'm tunneling you so hard is for 3 reasons.

a. Your instant, opportunistic push on karnos that doesn't look genuine.
b. Your tone when EnT said that he townread Skold. This seriously sounded like you were more upset that he TR'd him over you. Town shouldn't care if they're townread or not.
c. You have been flailing this entire day. Everything you say reeks of scum.

As for karnos, I've been fucked by him once, but for now I'm taking a gamble and marking him as light town but sleeping with one eye open. He's nowhere near as strong of a townread as say, IronStove, Joushi, Skold right now.

1) What if I told you I was pranay
2)

a) Are you referring to like my very first mostly-RVS vote on karnos? First of all, where is the scum-motivation for even minorly scumreading someone off of one post? Don't misrep it as a "push", it obviously wasn't. Second, I told you that it was very minor gut scumread. The "Let's wagon this scum" wording gave me a slightly tonal gut vibe that he was trying to appear minimalist, a bit fearless/confident, and distancing himself from scum, which is very common for somewhat new scum SE's. It obviously wasn't even enough for a null lean scumread, but I threw it out there because that thought popped in my mind.

b) Okay, this is maybe the sole point that I could see going for scum!me, but even so it is weak af. First of all, town definitely does care if they're townread or not, maybe not to the extent that scum is, but definitely is still a significant concern. If they get ML'd, town gets that much closer to losing, just as scum gets that much closer to losing if they get lynched. Second, I may have gotten a little bit annoyed when I saw him come in with a rude attitude towards the mod (I like Xalxe a lot, so that kind of ticked me off), give basically the opposite reads of what I got, agree with your post on "Hey everyone stop walling and be lazy like me", townread someone for absolutely no reason, and finally use terrible logic and try to assert it like he knew everything. Looking back, it was kind of an immature reaction tonal-wise and I should've been more patient with the new player. I was also suspicious that he scumread me for doing "a lot of talking and not a lot of words", while Skold's posts were literally just answering newbies questions. I at least did some scumhunting in the early game, and I didn't like that.

Rereading, it looks like most of his reads were tonal and gut, so it doesn't actually look like incongruent reasoning anymore. I think I was just really annoyed by his entrance.

c) lol

You mean like asking where the non-existent case is on me a few times

How flaily, why me fry me right?

----
So Skold is town because ______ (fill in the blank!)

And karnos is town because _____ (hey... fill in the blank!)

[innocentvillager]

Dunno, guess i just always tr the guy.

Can you respond to what i said like you said you would?

Pedit: Yeah sorry I was getting on that, probably should've said something about that before I posted here.

[innocentvillager]

lol okay if you don't know why you're townreading karnos I guess that's fine.... maybe a bit concerning....

Like even just gut. Something to mildly help me figure out where you're coming from, since I'm definitely not getting off karnos if I don't hear something good in his defense.

And yeah Skold read explanation would be nice too.

[innocentvillager]

skold's tonal town.

Okay.

Don't expect to convince people to getting off of Skold/karnos then.

good job running obv town ent up to L-1 idiots.

Agreed this was a pretty bad wagon, although let's not call people "idiots" in the newbie queue, they are learning.

[innocentvillager]

LOL HARK CAME IN AND CHANGED EVERYTHING LMAO wtf is going on now

[innocentvillager]

I disagree. Being bold and obnoxious is more often a town tell than a scum tell.

That was never my point (although, this is contentious and MAY or MAY NOT be true). My point was no one was going to take the argument seriously if all he did was shout and give gut as a reason, even if people townread him.

In post 220, innocentvillager wrote:
Actually knowing that you are soda on EM makes me not townread you anymore since I can see scum!soda pushing a horrible wagon like this.

What do you know about his meta?

soda uses AtE a lot, is a very active poster, and on EM the premise is to play with a lot of snarky and obnoxious one-liners to get people to AtE lynch and tonal scum read the people you want gone.

[innocentvillager]

Spoiler: kind of a wall but mostly just respond to quotes

This is my first game on mafia scum, I don't know what a mafia scum mafia looks like. Everyone here is so civil and calm, I'm used to people flaming each other in all caps and people who aren't typing all caps are generally hard scum reads.

I wouldn't consider this civil at all. And this game just got less civil in the last few pages...

It's a tasty little piece of cheese. Any scum want to hammer and collect it?

I'll trade town!Enefpe for a scum. It's a perfectly fair deal.

karnos wtf is this?? Did you seriously not think newbtown might hammer that?

IV - would be lean town, if he wasn't so focused on himself. the repeated use of "you accuse me of not contributing, but I've contributed more than others" is something that implies that he worries alot about how he's being read, and that he feels like he should be townread more.

Dude did you even read the thread? I used that response like twice, both were responding to the same point attacking me for one of my read posts against EnT when Skold hadn't done anything at that point.

I don't think I should necessarily be townread, I just think people are scum reading me for shitty reasons and I need to dispel that if I don't want a shitty mislynch on me. Everyone is concerned about how they read to others, even you here.

I dont generally read walls and the examples you listed towards transcend were pretty weak. I generally disagree there

Also i have to deal with the spergelord mod telling me not to make sexist jokes(as if suddenly ive crossed the line)i mean talk about the internet thought police im guessing he is with her

-_- refusal to play the game and not read anything longer than a paragraph is not good along with general read statements like that.

Also, please stop insulting people, especially the mod. You can go troll anywhere on the internet if you want, but avoid being a dick as much as possible in here please. It's very clearly stated in the rules too.

VOTE: Hark

Actually read what he said. Congrats on scumming up the game in about 7 posts.

And yes i town read karnos again. Just had to question the vote.

We're not policy lynching a pr claim. For all we know he MIGHT be our only pr.

I don't see how he scummed up the game in those posts. Why was Hark scum before you made that post?

Win-win. We only lose if stupid town quick lynches town Elephantpee, but I'm banking on the idea that we don't have any town that stupid.

Hmm... looks town-motivated now but I seriously wouldn't bank on that fact.

Trascends stupid...stupidness is kinda toxic to this town. VOTE: Transcend

I get he wants to be alpha!town/masquerade as that but it's honestly more obnoxious than powerful.

Skold, at least Transcend has been contributing a lot, albeit in a dickish and annoying EM-like minimalist way. Instead of sitting back and calling everyone bad in this game, I suggest you take some posts to generate real content to explain why people are being bad.

And we are not PLing Transcend.

vote: harko

Why

I'm not seeing the suspicions on hark.

[innocentvillager]

@IV that post implies that you yourself think karnos is a bad town and you're trying to teach him better. If so, why is your vote still on him? Is he still your top scumread?

What?? When am I referring to karnos in that post?

I never said karnos is a bad town.

I somewhat scum read him, though I'll admit it's not as strong as most scum reads. It's weird that I have a lot of town, null-lean town reads and null reads but no real scum reads.

[innocentvillager]

Hark why are you acting like a dick this game you're not usually like this dude

[innocentvillager]

Okay I might even be okay with a Hark lynch here

Every post Hark has so far is accusatory and /or defensive/aggressive

I don't get the sense that he really cares about solving the game, it just looks like he's pointing fingers at every little post for no reason

I'm not seeing the obvtown that I saw in his 1717 where I was scum

[innocentvillager]

I mean you're not EnT or Transcend-level dick but all you do is call stuff bad and aggressively accuse people

I feel like this could be you weirdly trying to change your scum meta play from 1725

[innocentvillager]

Hey guys sorry I've been so AWOL

VOTE: fiddlercrabontheroof

I didn't want to risk someone else not hammering in time.

100% null slot, not the best lynch, but not terrible either.

[innocentvillager]

I'm a bit confused by that nightkill

Like seriously under what premise was sold killed

I feel scum would have ironstove or enefpe lol

Maybe they could've thought he was PR??

Someone shed an ounce of light on this game plz

[innocentvillager]

I don't think he does.

[innocentvillager]

My guess is we're in one of the setups with a roleblocker for mafia and scum blocked entsc action

Why? He hasn't even posted D2 yet, so what are you basing this on?

Actually I noticed some MAJOR flaw in Enefpe's previous claims and postings. If he doesn't come on and clarify shortly we should just lynch him.

I want to see this.

I just don't see scum motivation for Enefpe to lie.

Maybe someone out there wants to catch Enefpe in a bad claim to test if he's really the right PR; idk, I don't think it's worth it. Let him wifom the way through. I don't think scum knows nor needs to know Enefpe's claim.

Enefpe and ironstove are definitely my top two townreads rn. Penguin/Joushi also feel pretty town too.

Which would suggest karnos/Transcend, but that doesn't feel right either.

[innocentvillager]

The tone was really off, and that's saying something considering how all over the place his tone has been throughout the game.

He has clearly stated multiple times a lack of respect for MS players, and probably would believe that such a simple ploy would work. It seems like it did in all honesty, so on that count it looks like he might've been right. He clearly feels he doesn't need to substantiate a claim if people will just believe it at face value.

Spoiler: Lack of respect quotes
In post 248, Enefpe no Time wrote:
His reaction to the wagon was a bit flaily but I think its a combination of being brainwashed by em theory and playing a newbie game with people who arent necessarily newbies.

In post 252, Enefpe no Time wrote:
The notion of rationality and evidence from ms players always amused me.

Some of the best players on MS are right-brained powehouses (say...faraday, fate), and know how the game works on a social level in a way that the left-brained players here (the majority imo) have a hard time conceiving. In many cases, there are much more subtle things going on than these players can imagine.

In post 348, Enefpe no Time wrote:
You know what, since most people on ms seem to be on the spectrum, im going to refrain from making jokes. Especially em related ones


Also is he actually V/LA again? He seemingly used it initially when he was MOST active...

Even if he is being a dick, that doesn't mean he's lying about the PR claim. I don't see how those two are connected.

I just don't want scum to know his role. He feels so genuinely obvtown that I don't see the merit in him claiming.

Plus, there is enough suspicion on him that he probably won't get NK'd tonight. If he survives to Day 3, then imo we can let him claim.

[innocentvillager]

I'm cop with a guilty on innocentvillager

not really but the guy is blatant scum and i want to get the vote of people who won't read this spoiler

in case you didn't read the spoiler, Transcend is NOT actually claiming cop. Do not counterclaim him.

Transcend, why don't you do something useful and give an actual good case on me. Or find actual scum.

[innocentvillager]

even if he says yes he won't self vote instead he will fos another player lol

Exactly.

Even if Transcend agrees to selfvote tomorrow, it doesn't mean jackshit. He's obviously not going to immediately selfvote if he's town, since that's an instant lylo-loss.

People will just end up evaluating him the same way anyway. He will explain that "I will selfvote if you guys really want me to, but it doesn't need to happen immediately".

This is the same tactic I pulled in my scumgame in Newbie 1722. I said I will selfvote if the D2 lynch was wrong, which I knew it was wrong. I counterclaimed Tracker to win the game later. Obviously Transcend might or might not claim PR after my flip, whatever; point is, it's null.

So, if Transcend says "Yes if I will self-vote if IV flips town", that does NOT give you the green light or should not give you any inkling to vote for me.

[innocentvillager]

Because i don't really want to

Either these guys will trust me or not. I don't really care which.

You're not doing a very good job of getting me lynched then LOL

[innocentvillager]

meh

VOTE: karnos

Only one I'm not kind of townreading. I think this is today's lynch.

[innocentvillager]

At least one of my minor townreads in Joushi/Transcend/Penguin is wrong, but I still think karnos is the most likely scum at this point.

@Transcend, I know you're not one to explain reads, but if you can elaborate or requote previous stuff you might've said about karnos-town case that'd be swell.

[innocentvillager]

@Enefpe's replacement (If I'm not here) DO NOT CLAIM (especially if you are Diagonal PR, but also if you're protective).

[innocentvillager]

Enefpe is obvtown. I don't think he needs to claim, and you really haven't given a good reason why he should. I wouldn't take the "setup C" thing too seriously lmao, there's literally no way PR or scum could actually know that. It doesn't necessarily mean he's claiming bp or tracker either.

If I knew Enefpe's exact role as scum, don't you think I would just kill him?? As opposed to letting him live even if he got down to a claim today?

It's not a full claim for scum, unless there is an RB and you really believe his PR claim. If scum has no RB, how does that mean he's tracker? Even if you believe his claim is BP or tracker, that doesn't mean he's more likely to be one or the other.

See, if it was a full claim for scum then yes I'd say just claim to us. But there's still a 2/3 chance there is no RB. EnT will just get killed after this anyway, so I don't see the necessity to claim now.

I think at least one of the people trying to get Enefpe to claim is scum and at least one is... Trying to get Enefpe to claim wrong. But this is silly. I don't think we should make obvtown claim.

[innocentvillager]

Inconsistent reads. Mood swings. Complaining about not being town read. Wahhing and appealing to everyone when he is scum read by them. Etc.

Literally refuted all of this horrible and shitty points but okay

[innocentvillager]

Now do you guys see why EnT is town

Fuck off of Enomis plz

[innocentvillager]

Get off of Enomis now. I swear I will quit mafia for a year (and finish current games) if Enomis flips scum. There is no way that slot is scum. Please.

[innocentvillager]

Not PR claiming btw, I honestly am just very certain he is town.

[innocentvillager]

IV has also ignored these two posts I made directly addressing him, IV please respond:

@Enefpe's replacement (If I'm not here) DO NOT CLAIM (especially if you are Diagonal PR, but also if you're protective).

Can you explain why not outing his PR claim is +EV for town? I agree with karnos' assessment that mafia most likely already know what the PR is, and hiding his PR at this point is more harmful to town than anything else.

Also IV, another question why does it matter if he's a diagonal ? I'm missing the significance of this detail.

Sorry a lot of stuff sometimes gets directly towards me, I can't always respond to everything but keep asking me and eventually I will see it and respond LOL.

See, I disagree with karnos's assessment that scum know what role enomis is. Firstly, that setup C claim was silly lol, and everything that follows rests on the hypothetical that he actually knew what he was doing when he was claiming "setup C". Even if you buy it, the only way they would know is if there is a RB, which is improbable (1/3 chance). That means that there's a 2/3 chance that they don't know whether he is Doc or Tracker (if you buy the "setup C" thing).

I have to apologize, I mixed up setup C and setup 3 in my previous post.

The point is, basically whatever enomis claims will clear him, unless he gets really lucky. A cleared PR will just probably get killed. There is no reason he has to get lynched today or get cleared.

Diagonal PRs are generally more powerful than protectives (BP/Doc) because they can actively investigate and figure shit out.

[innocentvillager]

Here's the thing though, if he's mafia why would he be so adamant about not lynching enomis if enomis is town? To make himself appear more town in the process? Actually, if enomis ends up flipping town with IV not explaining why he is TRing enomis so hard, then I would FOS him at that point because only a player who has information that a town player shouldn't have and doesn't want to share i.e. mafia would have the confidence to go against a lynch like this.

This is wrong. Town would have the confidence to go against a lynch like this too. He has been town reading this slot from before enfp claimed "setup C" thingy. He could be town who is so sure of enfp being town after seeing his post.

I often see players having utmost confidence in their read(when they think that read is strong). I am one of them.

Yep.

I am honestly just THAT certain of this slot being town. I'm even more sure of this slot being town than ironstove slot being town. You shouldn't really be townreading or scumreading me for this.

[innocentvillager]

Somewhat related, but I'm fairly confident that IV and Enefpe are opposite alignments. I'm confident that IV is town, Enefpe is opposite, ergo Enefpe is scum

Yeah this is not great reasoning. Either enomis and I are the most blatant non-newbie scumteam on this entire site, or maybe... (no way!) we're both town. Me town and enomis scum is laughable, me scum and enomis town is mildly plausible.

In post 19, Joushi wrote:
I'm not sure how relevant it is, but I've started looking through some people's games history. Am I allowed to link these or no? I saw a discussion somewhere about referencing out of game stuff but I'm not sure where it is.

Town Joushi. Agree with IV.

I think he's town too but I'm not as sure about him as you and ironstove.

--------------------

Also IV

, why did you not claim and your reason was some 5.5 days thingy.
Your reason should have been no one has claimed intent to hammer and not there are still 5.5days. 5.5 days is not a particularly long time and the town need time to switch votes and vote on another wagon and process the information.

Give me your thought process.

5.5 days is enough time dude. I recognize the need to lynch not-last minute, but that's like 40% of Day 1 that was still remaining. I had no reason to claim when the wagon was horribad, based on no reasoning, and there were other lynches that were better available. 5.5 days is easily enough time for a wagon to dissolve and reform on someone else.

[innocentvillager]

Also, V/LA until Saturday, I have a lot of college move-in to do among other seminars I have to attend.

I will still try to make a post or two in that time period.

[innocentvillager]

I still don't see him getting night killed, because scum would rather kill the cop if one exists.

What the fuck? Are you scum knowing there's a roleblocker? You mentioned no hypothetical to this!

VOTE: karnos

[innocentvillager]

Nvm it's not as much of a scumclaim as I though after rereading.

But I still disagree with that post.

[innocentvillager]

Nah he doesn't

[innocentvillager]

Are you guys fucking serious

Did you fucking maybe enomis claim

I told you fuckers to stop

VOTE: karnos
VOTE: karnos
VOTE: karnos
VOTE: karnos
VOTE: karnos

That was just rolefishing. You of all people should know better as town.

Lynch karnos or lose.

[innocentvillager]

*make not maybe

[innocentvillager]

I told you fuckers to stop

I'm sorry, I totally forgot I was the IC for a second. I am just really frustrated that obvtown had to claim. But I don't go back on my word that karnos is still scum.

Transcend scum is getting more likely too, I don't think real town soda is this bad.

[innocentvillager]

Maybe. I really wish you didn't claim. It was SOOOO obvious that you were town even from a non PR perspective I'm pissed that town kept pushing you for shitty reasons anyway.

The fact that SEs were on that train makes me want smash my head against a wall.

Honestly I just want to flip fucking green at this point just so I can watch Transcend flail like a fucking idiot from the graveyard

[innocentvillager]

Transcend what will you do when I flip town

Tell me

[innocentvillager]

That'd be a good point if you were my top scumread, but I've been townreading you to some degree all game and I'm really not sure on you

[innocentvillager]

WELP ironstove isn't tracker LOL (unless it was an awesome wifom from the beginning with that VT claim)

[innocentvillager]

Innocentvillager is probably scum roleblocker. He didn't need enomis to claim because he knows the exact setup.

I can't see town karnos being this bad.

This is obvious scum. What kind of town actually thinks this??

[innocentvillager]

Scum team is probably you/Transcend although Penguin could be the partner and less likely Joushi.

[innocentvillager]

Oh if we're all town

Then it's Transcend/penguin

[innocentvillager]

I told you I don't really have an explicit scum read on you, and that I have been town reading you for most of the game. I think most likely team is you/karnos, then karnos/penguin, then karnos/Joushi, then you/penguin. How am I "appealing" to you? I don't think town karnos is likely at all.

[innocentvillager]

Just because I asked for a case like 10 times doesn't mean I have you ruled out as scum lol.

[innocentvillager]

Transcend I liked soulas explanations later though.

If you think I'm scummy, then vote me. There's been momentum on me. Why have you pursued shit-lynches like Mori whom you don't even fos over me who you do fos?

Ridiculous. Pretty much all of the scum tells have been laughable up to this point. People just keep harping on little things and seeing what they want. I voted Enefpe because she/he made accusations and then wouldn't back them up, which I could easily see a newbie mafia doing without realizing how obvious that makes them. That's a lot more reasonable then going after people because you interpreted their posts as scummy. I voted Mori because I don't like the unknown factor. I followed a game where some players were more or less absent the whole game or subbed out only to turn mafia at the end. That totally ruins the game. If wanting to avoid that makes me look scummy, then I've pretty much lost interest in this game. And feel free to vote me.

And honestly, I don't think you're scum at this point. Scum-reading me over one little thing is a little annoying, but your play-style has been too overt and prickly for mafia. You're making yourself a target and that doesn't really make sense to me. It would just make the game a lot harder for you to do that. It doesn't add up. But if you are doing that and manage to pull it off, I'll be impressed.

No, I'm sticking to Mori for now because I want them to post and join the game; otherwise I want them gone for the huge annoying unknown factor. If that makes me scummy, so be it.

I think mori or karnos are good lynches for D1, I'm fine with lynching mori. Him and karnos are null reads but they've both been useless so far in the game and I'd rather remove the nulls beforehand in order to progress the game.

VOTE: mori

seconded. I think I'd rather vote Karnos though. But I can go for Mori, at least until Mori decides to participate.

UNVOTE: Enefpe
VOTE: Mori

Ick this vote was smelly

whatever. I'm getting bored and almost got mod replaced because of it; I just want to progress the game. This is a LONG Day. There's not much to go on and at least getting rid of Mori eliminates any possibility of lurking as mafia. It's really convenient to not even participate in day 1 as mafia. Everyone just ignores them and then they pop up mafia later.

And that's rich coming from you, one of the scummiest players this round. Can you be any more random in your accusations?

[innocentvillager]

Lmao

Well how do you feel about her explanation posts? The 143 might be the biggest reason I'm somewhat town reading that slot.

Honestly if you think someone is scum you should want to engage them even more, not plug your ears and shout "scum" "scum" like a child.

[innocentvillager]

And why is that ironstove?

[innocentvillager]

You ignore questions, answer selectively, and don't provide reasons for your town reads.

These are pretty bad reasons to scumread someone because neither scum nor town are more inclined to do one or the other (not providing reasons for townreads maybe? But i provided a pretty strong case for enomis town and briefly mentioned others). If I ignore questions (which I am bound to do), I'm either doing it a) out of laziness because it might take a lot of effort to answer said question but more likely b) I just missed it/forgot about it.

Can you post your read list IV?

Literally have been saying my readlist all game. In increasing suspicion I have enomis as conftown, you at strong town, Joushi at mostly town, Penguin at nulltown, Transcend null, karnos strong scum lean.

They're both scum reads for me, Transcend has been a scum read for me from the start, while IV was someone I had a strong town read on, but IV is not answering why he town read me, or town read enomis' slot, and isn't answering questions about his thought process, he's ignored my questions towards him for the last 3-4 pages, which is drastically different from the way he has played at the start of the game.

I know he said he will be going on vacation, so maybe the vacation planning/preparation has him distracted, but he could also just be trying to dodge the pressure.

What other questions do you still want answered? Sorry, I don't get to all of them.

Enomis would you vote iv? Or do i need to take time out of my life to make a solid case on him.

You're gonna need to do the latter for once this game dude I need to see something that I haven't already refuted lmao

I don't think Karnos and IV are scum theatring either so I don't see them as a team.

See...I actually was thinking this until recently. Now I'm thinking it could be karnos and you. Not as strongly as karnos and IV, but it's a possibility now.

??

You might want to proof read this

[innocentvillager]

Shhh its cool dude

Just lynch iv.

All will be o.k.

let's play a game it's called name that sound. i make a sound you tell me what it is.

WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH

If your guewss was innocentvillager being a crybaby that he isn't being townread anymore then you'd be correct!

soda can you chill it with the fillering AtE please.

[innocentvillager]

Joushi, you really need to unvote now. On the chance that you and transcend are both town, scum can blitz and win the game.

[innocentvillager]

tracker

[innocentvillager]

im tracker

nv joushi n1
nv pp n2

[innocentvillager]

popcorn pp

[innocentvillager]

tbh i think the scumteam is iron/pp

[innocentvillager]

where is everyone??

[innocentvillager]

Transcend get your fucking vote off me if you're town.

[innocentvillager]

Right now, serious.

[innocentvillager]

Team is iron/joushi. 90%. Fuck this shit.

[innocentvillager]

I also crumbed at the beginning of d2.

[innocentvillager]

I'm a

b

it confused by that nightkill

Like seriously

u

nder what premise was sold killed

I feel

s

cum would have ironstove or enefpe lol

Maybe they

c

ould've thought he was PR??

Someone shed

a

n ounce of light on this game plz

[innocentvillager]

busca is "look for" in spanish.

[innocentvillager]

Transcend I'm serious you're town, PP is town.

The reason I didn't get track results from joushi is because ironstove was sending the kills.

[innocentvillager]

That is NOT really a tracker soft. I had the same reaction kind of.

[innocentvillager]

No wtf Cop doesn't look for shit

fuck transcend stop being bad

[innocentvillager]

made what on the spot? Are you fucking serious? Where the fuck does that even come from?

[innocentvillager]

no what the fuck i would've written like investigar or some shit.

Do you seriously fucking think that was a double crumb? I mean, how fucking idiotic do you think I am? If I was so intent of crumbing both, wouldn't I have just crumbed twice?

[innocentvillager]

Buscar is so much closer related to tracker than Cop it's not even close, trust me. If I wanted to double crumb I could've.

Ideally I would've crumbed at the start of the game but I was writing my first IC post and shit, then eventually as I got into D1 I put off crumbing. I thought I was going to have to claim on D1 later, so I stopped putting in the effort to crumb. When the wagon tension was off me I got lazy and forgot to crumb again. I crumbed at the start of D2 because I thought of something cryptic enough that scum would never find it but also clearly a crumb.

[innocentvillager]

Because I think you're obv town now given that Joushi is scum.

I HAVE NEVER HAD YOU AS SCUM MOST OF THIS GAME. Where fuck are you getting that? I clarified over and fucking over that I had you at null for a lot of it and only towards the end did I have you as most likely scum by purely PoE. I began to think because most of the town had hard townreads on Joushi plus given my tracker result.

Want to know why I tracked Joushi and PP, instead of you and karnos? Because I actually put some fucking thought into my tracks. Little did I know the reason I didnt get anything from them, was because fucking ironstove was killing everyone! I figured if it wasn't a Joushi/ironstove team, then given that Joushi was widely townread, Joushi would be the one doing the killing if he was scum. I wanted to clear Joushi-scum, and I thought I did, but if ironstove is his partner it all makes sense. So before the end of yesterday, I thought the team was you/PP probably. I thought PP would be doing the killing, since you!scum with that terrible hammer yesterday wouldn't have made sense for you to carry out the kill.

[innocentvillager]

Enomis hadn't claimed yet genius.

[innocentvillager]

Okay with regards to the setup C thing, why do you think I yelled at everyone to not make enomis claim??? Maybe because I knew EnT was obvtown, and he was claiming doctor! I didn't want to fucking out the doctor! Joushi on the other hand, made this obv fucking town doctor claim! I mean like what the fuck? How are you not seeing this?

[innocentvillager]

Also why do you think I was so vague with my explanation on EnT town? Firstly, I knew he was town. No scum claims "setup C" and happens to be right, that's not a scum move. If I laid a massive case as to why EnT was obvtown, don't you think enomis would've just died that night? He died anyway because he idiotically claimed prematurely, but I wanted enough suspicion on him that scum might not try to kill him, but also so he didn't need to claim.

Do you really think I would've killed Skold as scum either? THat doesn't even fucking make sense!

[innocentvillager]

Ok I'm at work still and don't have time for long posts but why would you even track me N1?

Also while it isn't likely to be made up on the spot, that kind of shit isn't hard to fake if you want to

I dare you. Try and cc me, and just die. You thought ccing me was a good idea? Lol, I don't fucking think so. I'm not letting you win this game.

[innocentvillager]

I explained why I tracked you n1.

Fake what shit? Come at me LMAO.

[innocentvillager]

Joushi did you crumb? Lol, I didn't think so.

[innocentvillager]

Also if it was me PP or me ironstove scumteam Transcend you would be dead AF.

BlankFace and i came up with an exact system like this in Newbie 1717, when town voted town. Why the hell would i yell at joushi to unvote when I have an autowin on my hands??? Please think thx.

[innocentvillager]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... hilit=1717

Newbie 1717 scum thread.

Last page, BF and I discussed a way to quickhammer.

Here is our very own town-Hark newbvoting town-Postie in lylo and me and BlankFace quickhammering the shit out of that for an easy autowin:

You seriously think I wouldn't do that here?? That ALONE should be what makes you vote Joushi. Plus, if PP really was online at that time like you said he was, it would've been an easy win.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=1150

[innocentvillager]

TRANSCEND HOW FUCKING BAD ARE YOU

I COULD'VE HAD YOU AUTOLYNCHED RIGHT NOW

I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW YOU ARE THIS BAD

[innocentvillager]

I have literally blitzed before. I GAVE YOU AN EXAMPLE OF WHY I BLITZED. AND YOU'RE TELLING ME I NEED TO LEARN FROM THAT??

Let's say I'm scum. I'm so fucked here, right? You're onto me, PP is probably onto me, what the hell am I supposed to do, right? I NEED A BASIC QUICKHAMMERING SYSTEM IN THE EVENT THAT I CAN SURVIVE THIS GAME. I'VE DONE IT BEFORE, AND IM NOT JUST GOING TO RANDOMLY PUSH FOR JOUSHI TO UNVOTE YOU HERE.

[innocentvillager]

joushi was tunneling the shit out of enepfeslot until enomis claimed doc with no action and the 180 looks super genuine here.

You are only seeing this from a town joushi perspective. You are ignoring the fact that this makes perfect sense to do as scum too. He was just rolefishing for EnT to claim.

Why do you think I didn't want him to claim??? Just so I could kill him secretly??

[innocentvillager]

i'll learn from my mistakes if you're town lol

if i'm wrong wp to you joushi and i hope to see you play more games.

NO. This is not the attitude to have. You should be looking for actual scum, not letting whatever previous stuff that's happened color your reads.

Scum!Joushi makes just as much sense if not MORE sense here than town!Joushi.

[innocentvillager]

i'll learn from my mistakes if you're town lol

if i'm wrong wp to you joushi and i hope to see you play more games.

NO. This is not the attitude to have. You should be looking for actual scum, not letting whatever previous stuff that's happened color your reads.

Scum!Joushi makes just as much sense if not MORE sense here than town!Joushi.

[innocentvillager]

UNVOTE:

fine

but just know i'm likely roping you at eod

Thank you. Let's get iron and PP in here and we can continue discussing this. But honestly, the fact that I didn't quickhammer you should be obvious enough.

[innocentvillager]

it's just your actions are more inconsistent than joushi lol

how

I literally explained all my motivations for tracking each person. All you have to do is ask.

[innocentvillager]

A real tracker will generally not just track their top scumread if both scum are alive, since the scummier person will generally not submit the kill.

Note that the only reason Joushi was tunneling Enefpe D1 was because he didn't like his attitude. Yeah, sure, I didn't either, he was total fucking dick that had no respect for the mod or for the game. But does that mean he's scum? Absolutely not! Newbtown would realize this.

There is no pause in D1 for why he kept hardtunneing Enefpe other than stuff like general unhelpfulness, rudeness, etc., which clearly aren't scumtells. The fact that he didn't even question this makes Joushi either a horribad town player or newbscum that is looking for a reason to have a consistent read.

Who knows, maybe he was clever enough to soft tracker along with it too and was planning this whole thing out. But honestly I can see scum Joushi coming up with this on the spot.

That "reversal" on Enefpe is a reaction ANYONE would have. What kind of a doctor claims their predecessor didn't visit?

[innocentvillager]

That's why I was on edge about Joushi N1 so I submitted the Joushi track pretty late into the night with the added plus that Joushi would have submitted the kill unless his partner was townier perceived than him. That's why he was an optimal track N1: I had some private reservations about Joushi, and he was relatively townread that an NV would make him-scum MUCH less likely. I didn't actually consider an ironstove/Joushi scumteam, I thought that was kind of ludicrous. But hindsight/confbias I guess, makes anything seem more obvious.

[innocentvillager]

okay iv: you have a solid point, but unfortunately it does not 100% clear you because if you have a scum partner they didn't post in the thread when you were both online simultaneously to quickblitz.

Sure, I'm not 100%, nothing really is other than cc related stuff like me/Joushi.

But you have to realize that we would both be watching the thread. It doesn't make sense to set up a quickhammering system where you just blindly go for a post to signal to the other partner. What would've made more sense for a quickhammering system is if I just voted when I was sure PP or IS was going to be online and watching the thread. Of course, I would make sure than Joushi isn't online to remove the vote, which he did shortly after.

I set up an optimal quickhammering system like this each time. It straight up does not make sense why I wouldn't take the autowin here if I had it, it simply does not, given how much suspicion there was on me.

[innocentvillager]

i seriously think your name is going to have red font in it from the host

but i promise i won't make another vote until we've had a few days of discussion.

I do this a lot when I think someone is scum/town. I townread one, then scumread the other, then they cc each other. Naturally, I should just vote the scumread and be done right? He was scummy all game! Right, no, especially if the scumread was the one who told someone else to unvote me. Then, what trumps your previous "read" on people, is what they've actually done as their role. Looking at all aspects of how they would have played as scum or said PR (2 angles per person) would be essential to understanding the true game that each player has been playing.

Also, don't forget that it's easier to scumread PRs over VTs since PR game is a lot like scumgame.

[innocentvillager]

Yeah I admit I went too hard.

Honestly, I just found out about a really upsetting RL event so I am kind of channeling my anger into this game, hence why I am more agitated than usual (also, I would've been heated anyway after being almost wagoned by a scum!cc and a probably townie). I apologize if I crossed in line in the past few pages.

[innocentvillager]

Because Joushi has a lot of towncred and he may have been planning to cc PR this whole time? Also, if his partner was IS, then he might not take the chance here.

[innocentvillager]

Clarify the second statement: If Joushi claimed VT here and let me lead as uncc'd tracker, it's very possible that ironstove might've gotten lynched and that I would've rethought my PP read.

It's not like I was 100% on iron/PP. He probably thought this way was cleaner, especially if he was planning it.

[innocentvillager]

Sure. I need sleep. I'll let PP come in and weigh in because a lot of shit just happened in the last couple pages.

[innocentvillager]

I honestly thought that he thought you were maybe softing PR and didn't expect me to be the actual tracker here, especially after he hard townread me at the beginning of D3 lol, hence the quick vote on you.

It seemed too rehearsed. The day starts, and, boom, there's the vote on you.

[innocentvillager]

Transcend if it's not utterly obvious that stove and joushi is the team I don't know what you're doing.

He town read me over joushi right at the beginning of this day, but later decides it's okay to vote me knowing you might hammer?? Come on, no town is that anti wincon.

[innocentvillager]

Then he's all surprised and butthurt when you reprimand him for voting me.

Can we also talk about how Joushis post was right at the beginning of day like 13 min after Xalxe opened the thread? For such a long post and explanation on Transcend scum, he obvious prepped it overnight.

Now this isn't that scummy if he's VT, but he's Tracker, which doesn't get their result until the end of the night. Why would you prewrite a case on someone if you don't even know what Tracker result you're going to get yet? This can't make sense from a town PR perspective.

[innocentvillager]

fuck are you serious

I tracked BOTH SCUM just in the wrong order??? You have got to fucking me.

[innocentvillager]

well, gg fam.

[innocentvillager]

LOL you think i'm butthurt

VOTE: Innocent Villager

the hurts are real.

Why did you do this

Why do you make rash decisions like this

You need to calm your emotions or whatever next time, I'm serious

I know you're new, but please never do this again

[innocentvillager]

I can't believe I fucking tracked both scum in the wrong order. How fucked up is that??

[innocentvillager]

That was a big reason I thought it was stove/Joushi bc joushi/penguin would've meant that I literally tracked the scumteam reversed.

[innocentvillager]

Joushi did really well for a newbie, there was nothing in particular I could really catch him on. I still think there were wayyyyyy too many reasons to believe I was real tracker, but Joushi's fakeclaim was plausible from many angles and for a cc in general, let alone a newbie cc, that's pretty difficult. Props to the scumteam.

[innocentvillager]

I can't believe I fucking tracked both scum in the wrong order. How fucked up is that??

alol

This is why tracker is fucking useless lmfao.

I thought my reads were shit for so long looool. Why I subconsciously townread Joushi and Penguin later days.

Next time, I am never letting a Tracker result color my read on that person. Holy shit.

[innocentvillager]

Hey at least you weren't reason we lost this game lol

[innocentvillager]

huh, interesting pt.

Another thing I should've pointed out that came as scummy but I forgot to is how Joushi literally COPIED my notation for the tracking results ("nv on ___ n1, nv on ____ n2"). The actual wording is pretty different, i.e. "X didn't visited anybody last night". The fact that he copied my exact format suggested subconsciously that he was copying all of me, i.e. my claim.

Transcend I think I a couple more days without an IS vote I think I would've convinced you lol

[innocentvillager]

yea i revoted iv because he said i was a butthurt scum, i just wanted him to realize he was wrong in his call, didn't care about losing at that point. transcend and IV both deserve the loss, esp transcend for being so tunnel vision.

Hey ironstove, I'm really sorry if that came off the wrong way. I honestly didn't mean it as an insult.

Here's what I was thinking when I said that.

I knew that Joushi was scum, so the partner was you, PP, or Transcend. Transcend was almost certainly not the partner, due to how he handled D3. For PP to have been the partner, I would have had to track both scum at the wrong times, and also means that switched both days. Besides the low probability of that happening, I didn't think they would do that, given how Joushi was generally the townier slot both nights.

So, "knowing" that you and joushi was the scumteam (also given your hasty vote on me after a 180 switch from townreading me and seeing no hammer made me think it was you), I was basically aggressively explaining to Transcend why you two were the scumteam. I used the wrong adjective, but I meant it as if I was describing you were behaving rashly to Transcend's reprimands (note that I was addressing Transcend, not you, so using more vulgar words generally speaks to him more lol). If you'd had given me a chance to respond to stuff like this, I think we could've won the game due to you believing Joushi's claim over mine.

I too take things more offensively than I should sometimes, but to compromise a game just because of that is not fair to everyone else who is just trying to play to their wincon. I do, however, apologize if that came off as an insult.

[innocentvillager]

I thought transcend was a cop or tracker.

You guys should have lynched joishi, i had the best case on him.

I would've but there was too much me!scum in there so I didn't take it seriously lol. Plus me getting a no visit on him N1 made me townread him a lot more.

[innocentvillager]

Trackers are kind of nice because they require you to think through who's taking the shot so it's not as easy as cop. In this setup if you track doc you have a hard town clear too. And if you lynch a wolf then tracker nearly = cop. That said tracker+bp is hard mode for town compared to the rest I think.

Lol, that's what I tried to do. Maybe I shouldn't thought too much about it?

Joushi, why did you and PP/Hark let PP slot do the killing? I thought that slot was more suspicious, so I chose your slot to track LOL.

And at the end of D2, I thought the team was Transcend/PP esp because of Transcend's hammer, so I tracked PP because I thought Transcend would take the shot ;D

[innocentvillager]

soula started to wolf it up hard before she (i hope it wasn't strategically) replaced out. hark was scummy the whole time. penguin was scummy too. i just could not get off my iv tunnel. sfjsfsfjsdkfsjfks i just never fosed joushi at all.

It wasn't. And I'm sorry for quitting like that as mafia, but I didn't play this game to be personally attacked. Enefpe can go to hell. I think I'd enjoy a game that's faster and has more activity, less scrutiny of every little thing that someone does and more focus on reading playstyles; I don't have the patience to sit back and carefully do what Joushi did.

I think I'm too sensitive for this shit or I don't like the asshole factor. I don't know.

/mafiaisnotforme

Soula, I think you played quite well for the time you were in the game, you were pretty widely at-least light townread by most of the town

People like Enefpe on this site are rare. I have never seen someone quite like that on this site. I too get offended fairly easily, but honestly I think the best way to deal with the occasional insult from a player like that is to just tune it out and try to concentrate on the game. I really hope this doesn't discourage you from coming back to a site like this, mafia is really a lot of fun and really interesting, if you like argument-style games.

[innocentvillager]

but honestly I think the best way to deal with the occasional insult from a player like that is to just tune it out and try to concentrate on the game.

To be fair, I don't always do this well (there are times when I let Enefpe or others get to me, for example this game), but it's something to keep in mind that this is a game of argument and discussions generally do head there. Hopefully if people are being enefpe-level rude, that they get force-replaced or are warned to stop.

[innocentvillager]

Penguin making the kill N1 was definitely weird, I would have insisted for Joushi to do it

Soula, don't take things so personally ^^
Words hurt only if they are spoken by someone who you care about. You really shouldn't give a fuck about what a random stranger says about you over the internet.

Why did you replace out Hark? You could've gave me a free scum!! D: D:

If you chose the logical person to kill on N1 this whole mess could've been avoided

For the record, Enefpe was warned twice. If he'd done it a third time I'd have reported/replaced him, but he wasn't, to my eyes, bad enough to justify it it.

Ahh xalxe sorry I wasn't trying to take a stab at you, didn't mean it like that! I honestly didn't read too closely into his behavior and I know you have a low tolerance for personal attacks so I 100% trust your judgment on stuff like that. You still da best mod around

[innocentvillager]

btw sorry if some of my posts were more rude than acceptible, I did that purely because of you

lol wat

No they were definiltey not more rude than acceptable, they were just more rude than the you I've seen in the previous games.

I got a scumvibe from your slot because of how oddly aggressive you were (it really felt like you were actively trying to play alpha male, and it looked too forced to be genuine imo) but idk why I didn't pursue it. Maybe Soula? I should've realized I was TRing Soula based on personality and not on actual game motivations :/ ohwell.

[innocentvillager]

And you're right, after that last game I really don't have time for personal attacks like that. *shudder*

lmao that was sooooo cringy.

I mean you can be aggressive and annoying without personally attacking people. That's what I have done in basically every one of your games LOL. I get loud, obnoxious, scream at people, use caps and bold, but I've never personally attacked anyone, or if I come a bit too close, I immediately apologize