Newbie 1730 - To The North (Game Over)

[Skold]

VOTE: ironstove
Because steel is superior.

[Skold]

Hey Joushi and Ironstove. It'd be greatly appreciated if you could both get avatars quickly so that it is easier to distinguish your posts.

[Skold]

To me, this is implying more effort than normal, which implies scum.

Yeah, no.

[Skold]

Just a massive shout here - actions tend to be NAI (non-alignment-indicative) because anyone of any alignment can do anything and in some messed up mind have it make sense based on context and personal opinion.

[Skold]

It's not enough for me to hammer someone, but it's more than enough to vote for them in RVS. I'm not sure what you mean with "actions tend to be NAI" because you're kinda claiming we can't make reads (not reliable reads, but reads at ALL). Appealing to WIFOM is... weird since it just means "hey if we assume everyone is playing perfectly it's just a 50/50" which relies on the flawed assumption that everyone is playing perfectly. I don't agree with that statement at all.

?? I'm not operating on the assumption that everyone is playing perfectly. Quite the opposite, most anti-town players are in fact town. It's why I will no longer take being anti-town as good enough a reason to lynch someone post D1. And only with D1 because we really don't know anything.

[Skold]

To me, this is implying more effort than normal, which implies scum.

Yeah, no.

I understand what he means by this tho. I've noticed in experienced that OVERALL (not all the time) scum tend to be a bit more tryhard than town because of several reasons.

1. Scum have to put up a fake persona. Town can be genuine and carefree.

2. Scum already know who's who so they have to create scenarios to make everyone believe that someone they frame is scum. Which involves more effort.

3. IMO a scum win is more satisfying than a town win. I've had an epic town win and an epic scum win on this site. I can say I tried much much more on my scum win but I tried really hard in both games. Anyways, being able to say "haha I fooled you all mwhahahahaahha" is much more satisfying than "haha i found you out better luck next time ". However this is just me.

Town don't necessarily HAVE to be active but wanting to play the game is NAI. Activity really, REALLY shouldn't be used for tells for a couple reasons.
It is the easiest thing to fake in both directions.
And if you punish activity you basically destroy mafia as a game.

[Skold]

Disagree again. Claiming is the right move in some situations, and having this binary view is either very weak town mentality or a scum play to push onto the newer players.

This is how like 90+% of mafiascum players view claiming. You can disagree alright, but scumreading because someone buys into a very common practice seems silly.

[Skold]

You not wanting to read people solely for "walling" kind of just sounds like laziness.

I know you're addressing Transcend but honestly brevity is rather key. If you can say the same thing with less words

[Skold]

Skold is pretty town.

VOTE: Enefpe no Time

[Skold]

It was a bad post yes, but explain why it's a scumpost. I've seen even experienced town play like this before.

[Skold]

That's the problem with a lot of games I'm looking at. People confuse bad/scummy with an actual indication of someone being scum. D1 might as well be random so I usually don't mind but most tells I'm seeing being used have no relationship with finding scummers.

[Skold]

@Transcend I've already decided that D1 lynch might as well be random because any information we have is purely theoretical with no statistical basis whatsoever. So Enfepe giving me a bad vibe is just a gutread which stands head and shoulders above the rest of the bad vibes.

[Skold]

For the record, I really hate the complete lack of specifics in every post after 87 but it seems to me like that's just the playstyles I'm gonna have to deal with this game. :sigh:

The scum hunting I do see from him seems flawed, in the sort of way a scum would see the game.

could you expand on this? my reread of his posts are kinda showing me an overeager IC more than scum. What are you seeing I don't?

Will give you dog treat if you unvote me.

Scoooooby snacks? You're currently still my #1 scumread, though. I'm rather convinced that you and EnT can't both be scum together though, as 53 is just too dumb to actually do as scum, but you two are definitely 1st and 2nd on the list.

A lot of people are fos'ing IV, and there's no way I'm putting him at L-1 while he's V/LA.

VOTE: Enefpe

L-2, voting for tunneling on IV and fairly unsubstantiated claims in 54, and super minimal answers/dodging questions in 74 and 81

Yet again controversial PSA. Most scumtells don't help us find scum, and D1 might as well be removing the players we don't like the most. Though I do like this post from the perspective of someone who thinks scumtells are helpful.

[Skold]

Do mafia have a day/night chat?

That looks forced.

[Skold]

Single scumtells I agree don't help, but I'll attribute consistent scumtells to scum more often than not.

Okay, but that doesn't help you find scum. I'll promise you it doesn't. Scumtells don't mean much honestly, because town make just as many poor decisions as scum.

[Skold]

I don't see how that post looks forced.

Mafia know there isn't any daychat. So do town who have played this settup before or have read the settup on the wiki. Newbie Mafia could ask if there is daychat to make it look like they don't know there isn't. That is how I read your post. However, sticking to my principles, it is probably nothing.
fos: Ironstove
I still prefer Enfepe
@Transcend I have recently done this ''act like your vote is the only one that matters in order to (mis)lead the town
it doesn't come off as powerful it comes off as foolish. We're lynching the popular majority by about a couple days (72 hours works well) before deadline.

[Skold]

People are more likely to be town given the 7/2 split. That meta read is dumb.
pedit: don't flip out like that. It's a dumb meta read but seriously that is too much post for a simple thing. It's also a dumb, NAI thing so whatever.

[Skold]

Uhhh... it's kinda fine actually. Bit crass but nothing personal, and honestly we aren't going to get anything solid D1.

[Skold]

I'd like to have at least 15 pages of content for use later on but without the context of a couple flips, it's all buzzwords and gutfeelings.

[Skold]

The higher the person is on the list the more likely I think they are to be town.

{ironstove}
{Skold, Joushi}
{Enefpe no Time}
{Mori, karnos}
{Soula}
{innocentvillager}

Thoughts?

Readlists are a lazy way of contributing and that list is completely arbitrary.

[Skold]

I feel like we're getting really unlucky with this game in particular.

Fast games tend to make little to no sense whatsoever and have really random wagons. I'd rather be in this for the long haul than have a page a day fulled with bullshit.

[Skold]

*filled

[Skold]

Ironstove shut up. Seriously, your scumtells aren't anything other than pointing out poor habits that town also have. I don't mind any of your lynches, but I'm getting fucking sick of the would be mafia gods that always turn out to follow the statistical trends because of course they do.

[Skold]

You want the town to become complacent so you can sneak by and snag an easy win.

I recognize that mafia is a more complex game than is made out by like almost all players. I also recognize that the best a scumtell will ever get is slightly improving the chance of someone being scum rather than guaranteeing anything. Even something as blatant as a preclaim hammer can, has and will continue to be done by silly town acting silly.

[Skold]

Everything in the last few pages is dumb and probably ought to be ignored. This is what happens when I don't bring sense to this nonsense. Nobody has anything in terms of evidence. Nobody is at all guaranteed to be any alignment except yourself. Stop spreading bad theory plz.

[Skold]

K douchebag I'll stop spreading "bad theory" but watch me be right in postgame when you hand innocentvillager a cake walk scum win.

You might well be. But pretty much any scumtell is useless and you've no evidence to assume anyone is scum. Give me evidence IV is scum not fairytale bullshit.

[Skold]

LOL. So basically you don't think you have to justify yourself and can fall back on claiming intuition as long as you can get people to agree with your perceptions.

WOW

JUST WOW. I should have trusted my read on you from the beginning, instead of thinking I could be smart about this.

Can we just lynch this obvious mafia now please?

VOTE: Enefpe

Just. Fucking. Think about it. Why couldn't town say these things? Why couldn't silly people say silly things or even smart people get trapped into an illogical loop. I don't especially care who we lynch today because it honestly could not matter less.

[Skold]

(since a lot of times, they're wrong!)

PS IV: This is why scumtells are stupid, irrational and useless and you should join me in the ''lets make some fucking sense and try to figure this shit out'' club.

[Skold]

His reaction to the wagon was a bit flaily but I think its a combination of being brainwashed by em theory and playing a newbie game with people who arent necessarily newbies.

You agree but then justify it? I don't mind my vote hanging about here.

[Skold]

You dont think town flail as well? Its hardly an alignment tell. Not sure where you are coming from

I don't see why you would mention it, knowing that it's not a tell.

[Skold]

Even better question, what good is it for a Town Enefpe to play like this?

Wrong question. The correct question is ''why couldn't town Enefpe be this stupid'' and there is no answer.

[Skold]

I need to meditate ;(

See ya later guru

[Skold]

Why I am not surprised Transcend's hydra is called Elitism?

[Skold]

That's not good enough. A PR claim that goes no further leaves mafia a papertrail to justify a fakeclaim later. Full claim it.
Theory bit here - Docs and BPs should claim doc/bp because it WIFOMs mafia.

[Skold]

actually fuck that what am I thinking. don't full claim.

[Skold]

UNVOTE:

[Skold]

Trascends stupid...stupidness is kinda toxic to this town. VOTE: Transcend

I get he wants to be alpha!town/masquerade as that but it's honestly more obnoxious than powerful.

[Skold]

Skold, at least Transcend has been contributing a lot, albeit in a dickish and annoying EM-like minimalist way. Instead of sitting back and calling everyone bad in this game, I suggest you take some posts to generate real content to explain why people are being bad.

And we are not PLing Transcend.

I'm not going to stir bullshit I don't smell. I'll leave the reaction tests and baits to you people, at least for this game. And the ''real content'' we've seen is all bull so I'm not going to.
And we might not PL Transcend but any lynch D1 is a policy lynch. If you deny that you're bullshitting yourself.

[Skold]

Enough role speculation, it doesn't help town.

[Skold]

Well scumhunting is BS but thanks for rolling those dice.

[Skold]

Neither?

[Skold]

Fucking hell sorry this had to happen but we need to get off Enfepe and find something else in like 24 hours.
VOTE: Enfepe
Fullclaim so we can find something else.

[Skold]

If you think so, why do you think Enfepe's full claim would help town?

Well you just read nothing of why I posted. Are you usually this stupid or what? I literally explained in that post that we need him to fullclaim, so the dipshits voting him realize he isn't scum and can vote something else.
UNVOTE:
I don't read much into enfepe thinking he knows what set up we are in. But he doesn't.

[Skold]

Which reminds me: Skold, why did you not announce that you are putting him at L-1?

I don't announce that anymore. For bait related reasons.

[Skold]

I like Hark for his apparent inability to actually read what is actually posted. Choochoo time is running out.
VOTE: Hark

[Skold]

Didn't get pedit notification. Yay.
@Hark yes exactly that. Force him to claim what PR so you get off his wagon. Now you'll have to explain your sarcastic tone because none of what I just said doesn't make sense. Double negatives you've forced me into do however. Not make sense that is.
@Everyone else Me or Hark. Vote one of these or we no lynch at this rate.
pedit: Well then you're stupid. I have no certainty you are scum and anyone who thinks they have 100% found scum on D1 is lying or deluded. Given the state of mafia atm probably deluded.

[Skold]

Yes that elaborate lie, a classic which gives me the upper hand in...what exactly?
I want you to explain why the reasoning doesn't make sense. Are you reading what I'm posting after putting it through google translate a couple times or something?

[Skold]

Town!Skold would have pushed his other scumreads

Have you read the game? Back to front? Etc etc. I don't have scumreads, I think they're based entirely on bullshit D1.

[Skold]

"Forcing him to claim to prove to the people on his wagon that he's town" is bs.

No it's not. Fuck you. That's entirely logical. People don't believe because it's a vague PR claim, people usually believe a specified claim. I believe the PR claim so I don't doubt he is town. Therefore I L-1 to try and force a fullclaim so that people can move onto a different lynch.

[Skold]

Why Hark over IV? Over Enefpe? Over Transcend? The argument you make against Hark seems somewhat spiteful and the argument you're making regarding Enefpe seems a little contrived. If the two of you were really our only options I'd definitely end up voting you.

I don't see any other lynches as realistic.

[Skold]

VOTE: Fiddler
Fuck it no momentum on Hark.