Newbie 1730 - To The North (Game Over)

[PenguinPower]

Pp give your read on karnos ASAP

Not completely sure. It's hard for me to get a read on him when I haven't been directly interacting. Give me a bit.

I think the potential town cred of not being on the wagon is pretty much zero, while the gain to scum of getting an extra townie killed is rather significant, so my personal thinking is

that scum were either already on the wagon or waiting and ready to hammer at the last minute.

Or declaring an intent to hammer, letting someone else take care of that for them, and then saying "Oops, looks like someone else got there first."

He didn't have to hammer himself, and if he was scum he would have known the inevitable town flip would make his hammer look a little scummy. Why take the heat for that if he could instead sit back and let me hammer? I'm not saying he is clearly town, but that action does push him down a bit on my scum ratings, and hark's iso looks very scum to me.

With the looming deadline, need to lynch, and it being D1, I'm not sure why the "inevitable town flip" would have made him look scummy...from what I can tell there was little to no participation around deadline and the village was resigned to the lynch. At worst it would have been NAI. His statement about not wanting to risk someone (you) not hammering in time feels like a proactive defense, though...kinda unnecessary.

Hark's ISO does look bad. Can't argue with that.

Oops. Penguin replaced into the scum slot, that sucks.

Yeah...I don't really care for Hark's play style, but he was scum in my first newbie game and he didn't play this aggressively. What's your case?

p-edit

Should we not be townreading you? At this point, I don't, but that's only because I have 20 pages to catch up on and no direct interaction with you.

[PenguinPower]

My guess is we're in one of the setups with a roleblocker for mafia and scum blocked entsc action

Why? He hasn't even posted D2 yet, so what are you basing this on?

[PenguinPower]

Can you explain why?

FMPOV, he claimed a PR already, at this point what benefit does it serve him or town to not hard claim his role? He could be mafia just lying about being a PR, and if he is caught fake-claiming we can lynch him today.

Because, if he was telling the truth, it would help scum know exactly - or at least narrow it down to two - what setup we're in. That helps scum, but doesn't help town. If he's caught fake-claiming, the it outs a true PR which will almost certainly be NK'd.

Where did he claim a PR btw? I've been through his ISO, but I didn't see it.

[PenguinPower]

Actually I noticed some MAJOR flaw in Enefpe's previous claims and postings. If he doesn't come on and clarify shortly we should just lynch him.

This concerns me based on this type of statement's past use by you. What do you plan to do in the case that Enefpe gets replaced out...are you going to tell us what the major flaw was since his replacement likely won't be able to answer in the way you are trying to get Enefpe to?

[PenguinPower]

Assuming scum killed the people who were targeting them most, as they often do, I'm thinking that Enefpe and Hark-turned-Penguin are our two biggest suspects today. I don't think it would be surprising to people if I don't change my vote?

So, your entire argument here relies on scum killing those that targeted them the most (wouldn't that be OMGUS?...incorrect usage?), which conveniently gives an out for stove, you, karnos, and IV. In the case where scum did not kill those that targeted them the most, what are your reads looking like? Because D1, with little to no information, a townie tunneling someone shouldn't give cause for concern.

Only one I'm not kind of townreading. I think this is today's lynch.

Possible. I'm curious as to his response now that enefpe is replacing out.

if you are Diagonal PR,

What does this mean?

Exciting activity levels guys. It's easy for scum to hide in a lack of activity "it's not lurking if everybody is doing it!"

I'm usually pretty inactive on weekends...real life and all that.

Karnos post 589:

Spoiler:

Okay, well I wanted to wait and see Enefpe's claim, but it looks like he is getting replaced and IV is making annoying noise again.

The whole issue I have had with his "partial claim" is that there is a very good chance the partial claim is actually a full claim for scum. By claiming we are in "setup C", if scum have a roleblocker they know exactly what setup we are in and what Enefpe's role is. If scum don't have a roleblocker, they know it's much more likely that Enefpe is a tracker.

Either way, his stupid "almost claim" is giving a lot of information to scum already, they probably know his exact role and setup, while it just confuses town. Of course if he is scum then that wouldn't be a concern, and I find it interesting that VI is opposed to a claim, as if he was scum he probably already knows Enefpe's exact role- either because of setup knowledge, or because Enefpe is actually his scumbuddy.

I'd be okay with a VI lynch today given his last post, but I really want to see what the new Enefpe has to say.

So, I get what you're saying, but how is that a major flaw and how does that point to Enefpe being scum? IV's post 591 makes more sense than what you have said, tbh.

[PenguinPower]

The point is it's bad play. The whole point of not sharing your role is to keep scum from knowing what it is. The "i'm a PR" post was bad, but could be excused because it puts scum into a situation of no wanting to try to kill because the PR could be bulletproof and missing a night kill would be bad, but then he goes and says we are in setup C which is just way too much information to give scum.

I don't disagree it was bad. But since when does "bad play" = "major flaw" that should result in lynching?

[PenguinPower]

I think it's a perfectly plausible scenario that IV & Enepfe are our two scum.

Don't disagree. IV is strongly advising that slot's no claim, even to go so far as to instruct the replacement not to claim pre-emptively. Not sure it's accurate at this point, but it is plausible.

[PenguinPower]

Hey ya. Don't have much time to read the thread now. Will prolly do it tmr night or something. But i see people asking me to claim?

Also, any Tl:Dr on the game so far?

I think you have a majority of the players asking you to hard claim at this point, with one person strongly recommending against it.

Tl;dr - Lots of arguing, bickering, bantering leading to a townie lynch and a townie NK. Now we are all eagerly awaiting to see how you respond since your slot softclaimed...which will apparently have to wait until tmr night or something.

[PenguinPower]

How is he scummy. I haven't read the thread.

You're going to have to read, then. Transcend doesn't explain.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: innocentvillager

Switching while we wait to hear from new!Enefpe

We've heard...what are your thoughts now?

[PenguinPower]

@Penguin: WHo is scum and why.

I'd like to hear from karnos on your slot before I answer that.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: innocentvillager

Switching while we wait to hear from new!Enefpe

We've heard...what are your thoughts now?

VOTE: enomis

This still needs to claim.

Interesting...

Is that L-1? Joushi, you and ironstove?

[PenguinPower]

I was going to wait a bit, but I'm pretty convinced at this point. I'm going to keep my thoughts on your scum buddy to myself for now.

VOTE: karnos

You're playing your scum game right now.

[PenguinPower]

I was going to wait a bit, but I'm pretty convinced at this point. I'm going to keep my thoughts on your scum buddy to myself for now.

VOTE: karnos

You're playing your scum game right now.

Why are you convinced karnos is scum?

I've played a lot of games with him, so it's kind of hard to explain because it's part gut. He's a very logical player as both scum and town, but when he's scum there are slight "off-putting" things with his logic and interactions.

The one that just sent it over the edge for me was his re-voting Enomis to get a claim after my request for his thoughts. Why did he wait until that point to do it? He had already been back and posting after Enomis' walls, but nothing. In fact, he starts to go down a different line of thought, seemingly forgetting his previous stance.

[PenguinPower]

Sorry, I'm not scum this time. Penguin might be, or he might just be a bit paranoid after our last game. Fair enough...

Thing is I want IV & enomis lynched. That is why I didn't immediately change my vote back, because I'm a bit torn and I'd be perfectly happy seeing IV get lynched first. But you reminded me that enomis has flatly refused to claim until he is at L-1 with intent, so lets get that going first and then decide who to lynch.

I think you may want to lynch both...but the explanation on switching back to enomis is weak. So, enomis claims PR, and you're back to where you started, but with a bit more info. Right?

[PenguinPower]

Penguin & Transcend?

Interesting thing is I posted the above, and then shortly after Penguin voted me. Maybe I hit a little too close to the mark?

Ah, the recency argument. Nice.

[PenguinPower]

I don't think Karnos and IV are scum theatring either so I don't see them as a team.

See...I actually was thinking this until recently. Now I'm thinking it could be karnos and you. Not as strongly as karnos and IV, but it's a possibility now.

[PenguinPower]

??

You might want to proof read this

Sorry...maybe it didn't come across clearly.

When I called out karnos as scum, I said I didn't want to mention his scum buddy. I was thinking at the time that it was karnos and you, and your back and forth was just an act as your votes on each other were never that strong or serious. I'm still thinking that, but I'm also thinking it could be karnos and transcend. Transcend seems to always play very loose and free, so its hard to get a read on him, but for him to be buddying karnos now after his hesitation after our previous game gets me worried.

Strongest read is still karnos>you. But I learned from my first IC that in If X then Y scenarios, always go for X.

X = karnos.

[PenguinPower]

I don't think Karnos and IV are scum theatring either so I don't see them as a team.

See...I actually was thinking this until recently. Now I'm thinking it could be karnos and you. Not as strongly as karnos and IV, but it's a possibility now.

Lol

This is why I love you, and also why I hate you.

At least you understood what I was saying.

[PenguinPower]

Would you be willing to perhaps lynch iv today since he's a possible wolf then if he flips green, broaden your scum read on me/karnos

I'd rather lynch karnos. Not saying at the end of the day I wouldn't if he was L-1 and I had to be the hammer, but I would prefer karnos.

karnos>>>>>>>IV>>you


You mentioned you had a case on IV...care to explain?

[PenguinPower]

so rn you think me and karnos are scum but you'd lynch iv over me?

what!?!?!

Can you please read post 774?

[PenguinPower]

Transcend if it's not utterly obvious that stove and joushi is the team I don't know what you're doing.

He town read me over joushi right at the beginning of this day, but later decides it's okay to vote me knowing you might hammer?? Come on, no town is that anti wincon.

I'm on mobile right now and haven't had a chance to look at the bazillion posts since end of Day, but I'm inclined to agree with IV based on this current page alone. I'll do a complete read when I get to a computer this morning.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: InnocentVillager

[PenguinPower]

Night 2
enomis protects Joushi
Joushi kills enomis

Lol. I love how that reads.

[PenguinPower]

I was pretty pissed that I missed ironstoves first IV vote. I was on 1 minute before he voted and then had an hour in the car where I couldn't do anything. Glad he voted again

[PenguinPower]

Penguin making the kill N1 was definitely weird, I would have insisted for Joushi to do it

Nah. You were pretty obvscum from my viewpoint so I knew I was going to have a lot to come back from. Rather risk me being seen than confirming Joushi. Worked out.