Kids TV Show Characters Mafia - Endgame

[BROseidon]

Oh my god this actually started. Not gonna be able to take a look at this until tomorrow, most likely.

@mod v/la through Sunday

[BROseidon]

Woohoo am finally home.

Gonna take a look at this after I take a shower and take care of a few things!

[BROseidon]

Hey hiplop I'm trying to read this game and it's reminding me of why I hate mafia, so I have 2 questions:

1) Are you town?
2) Who should I vote for?

[BROseidon]

(ps I would def vote for you. RIGHT OUT OF A GAME OF SURVIVOR)

[BROseidon]

Ooh ooh is Mala not posting?

Mala not posting when she's in a hydra is a super scumtell for her!

[BROseidon]

VOTE: MJ, then.

And back to reading while I watch CUPCAKE WARS.

[BROseidon]

idk Jonathan Bennett is pretty. Plus, like, Mean Girls.

[BROseidon]

This is a celebrity episode with Carson Kressley, which is kind of hilarious.

[BROseidon]

It's called "Mala hates playing scum and hides/misdirects whenever she rolls it"

[BROseidon]

Also tbh Grib's avatar makes me want to lynch him to get it out of the game.

Shit's cweepy.

[BROseidon]

It's called "Mala hates playing scum and hides/misdirects whenever she rolls it"

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=64524

Ugh I hate having to use words.

Mala in solo-slots can start the game out pretty strongly as scum, at least as far as participation goes (she certainly did in Wicked mafia, as well). However, when she does, someone, if not the whole game, tends to peg her pretty quickly (I've never not caught scum-her on day 1 when she's been solo). No matter what as scum, though, she'll eventually fade.

In a hydra, that fading happens more quickly, sometimes at the start of the game.

[BROseidon]

How dare you insult the queen of ~iconic~

[BROseidon]

I mean...

[BROseidon]

Back in the day, it seemed like I could nail nacho as scum EVERY TIME.
But since I came back, he is a mystery. Maybe it's me, but I think he just got crazy good.

It's you

[BROseidon]

Is there a reason we're not lynching Medical Junkies like.. right now?
:/

Because me being on a wagon is like a redlight to it, probably.

I'm cursed!

[BROseidon]

Yup.

Holding you 100% to this. If you aren't 100% confirmed town tomorrow, buh-bye

unvote

[BROseidon]

I think the problem is that the standard for being town on this site is absurdly low.

Ayyyyyyyyylmao

[BROseidon]

tbf Grib I've considered doing the same to get you and DS out of this game, and I've never seriously pushed a PL before.

Like, you're both being intentionally disruptive. With DS, IIRC I think he just is like that, but with you I don't have that context so...

[BROseidon]

tbf katsuki powerlurking is par for the curse.

VOTE: grib

[BROseidon]

I come back after 24 hours and there's wagons on two of my town reads?

Ugh I hate you all. Time to actually read shit.

[BROseidon]

tbf katsuki powerlurking is par for the curse.

VOTE: grib

Camn is part of the heads, she isn't lurky at all.

wtf was the point of this post?

Like, I can't actually articulate why this post is so dumb because of how dumb it is.

[BROseidon]

Yeah, time to start playing. You've had a slight issue with this in both games I've been in with you (and I don't really care about your excuse for it)

I mean, I am playing?

"You don't play mafia the way I think everyone should play it, therefore you aren't playing it."

You know what happens when everyone spams up the thread with incoherent walls of shit? The game becomes massively unfun.

So I'll leave that to you while I both don't shit up the thread and end up with better reads than you (assuming you are, in fact, town, which I'm not particularly compelled to believe at this point).

[BROseidon]

Also I decided browhoever is talking out of his ass and I'm not being disruptive.

...

sure, w/e buddy.

[BROseidon]

Post 1062 by camn is scummy. I think she deserves to be lynched.
UNVOTE: Snarky
VOTE: Camntsuki

Someone tell me why we are calling this newbtown again? Because I'm not particularly feeling it.

[BROseidon]

I’m starting to question if Fox’s read on Camnt is colored by personal like for the individual heads or colored by knowing they aren’t a partner so assuming them to be Town …

they JUST said they didn't have a strong read and didn't think the attacks against them were good.

why don't people understand this is possible?

Because nuance is hard, let's lynch people for stupid reasons.

[BROseidon]

Yeah, time to start playing. You've had a slight issue with this in both games I've been in with you (and I don't really care about your excuse for it)

I mean, I am playing?

"You don't play mafia the way I think everyone should play it, therefore you aren't playing it."

You know what happens when everyone spams up the thread with incoherent walls of shit? The game becomes massively unfun.

So I'll leave that to you while I both don't shit up the thread and end up with better reads than you (assuming you are, in fact, town, which I'm not particularly compelled to believe at this point).

Actually, I was more talking about how you have an issue with lurking. Not like PV does. But still, it's an issue at times (again, don't care about the reasons)

I'm not sure whether to respond with condescending snark or actual content, so you get both.

1) And I'm still a better player than you. What does that say about your spamming up the thread every fucking game
2) A certain portion of the game needs to lurk at various parts of the game, especially in a large. Lurking with 5-7 people left? Yeah, problem. Lurking because it's day 1 of a large game and people are spamming everywhere and you want day 1 to not hit 100 pages

again

? Correct.

Not to mention contextual lurking based on PR-play and mixups for PR play, but I don't really think you have the nuance to employ those tactics so I'll leave it at that.

[BROseidon]

I think my partner doesn't like him.

also...
for real, please lynch us. pay attention to our wagon after the flip.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: camntsuki

Can you talk to me about why you would do this as town?

Can anyone talk to me about why we aren't lynching this?

[BROseidon]

Bluffing.

Proceeds to indicate that scum could do it as a bluff, which IMPLICITLY REQUIRES KNOWING WHY TOWN WOULD DO IT IN THE FUCKING FIRST PLACE.

[BROseidon]

Camn if I were DGB I'd be fakeclaiming mason with you right now.

[BROseidon]

Ok. That self-vote deserves a lynch with fire.


Town should NEVER EVER SELF VOTE.

Policy lynch us then.
You will get our townflip, and we will but this game in our rearview.
I'm giving you the extra vote... if you have the juice, get it done!

Just please, god, make today end.

I will hammer Grib, DS or Snarky.
Katz will Hammer MOI, or probably anyone else except Nacho. Put them at L-1 and we will do the work.

Camn. If you are town, then remove that vote right now. You are strictly playing against your wincon, if you are town, as you are obstructing information that could help town.

Oh my god do you not understand what frustration is?

[BROseidon]

if it's real i'd like to preemptively report katsuki's first post in the dead thread

tbh my case against jumping on Waco is ~just not feeling it~, but camntsuki are super obviously town, so...

I'mma sit on my vanity wagon and wait for you guys to see the light.

[BROseidon]

Because it's obvious.

He's being intentionally obfuscating, pushing stupid shit, and has sequences of posts like 1250/1252 that demonstrate that he's just pushing shit because it's expedient.

[BROseidon]

I thought you said you were going to be snarky. Not facetious. The fact that you would put 2 completely different playstyles up beside each other and said objectively that one is better than the other is ridiculous. I won't get into why it's ridiculous now, but expect a nice long rant post-game.

Also, you lurking will not stop a game from reaching 100 pages on its own. If it's going to reach that far, then give content so that people can actually read you. Cool? Cool.

1) You know what, nevermind. You're missing the point, and given that I've intentionally made this personal to see if you're incapable of following arguments, I've gotten what I wanted.

2) This is a dumb paragraph.

Fuck if I can read DS - someone please just put a bullet through it so I don't have to care.

[BROseidon]

If I were a vig I would probably shoot you for the sake of my sanity, tbf.

[BROseidon]

so whats the smoking gun here?

There isn't one? Like, I'm not going to go through every post and explain why it's coming from scum. One, I'm too lazy, and two, it's disingenuous to say that every single post, or even single posts at all, are strong evidence for someone being scum. It's a wholistic thing with his behavior.

[BROseidon]

if it's real i'd like to preemptively report katsuki's first post in the dead thread

tbh my case against jumping on Waco is ~just not feeling it~, but camntsuki are super obviously town, so...

I'mma sit on my vanity wagon and wait for you guys to see the light.

did you think this post indicated i was scumreading camn? it didn't

also bro is town wow that was easy

Oh I was gonna quote that then didn't, then the quote stuck around because fuck this UX.

[BROseidon]

Can you explain this read to me because the points he made on Grib where based on 2 post out of a massive amount that has gone on.

Also I'll wait 2-3 days for everyone to realize this is scum before pushing it.

[BROseidon]

It's the consistent "honing in on the wrong things" from farside that makes me think he's scum.

[BROseidon]

The irony of Bro yelling about spamming of threads being unfun and stupid and proceeding to do just that himself is “10/10, would appreciate irony again” level.

Oh look, Mr. "I write anti-town as fuck walls" is making a stupid point.

Fuck off.

[BROseidon]

It's the consistent "honing in on the wrong things" from farside that makes me think he's scum.

wait is this a reason for a farside suspicion or a reason for a grib suspicion?

Farside.

Continuity with the previous post pls

[BROseidon]

I come back after 24 hours and there's wagons on two of my town reads?

Ugh I hate you all. Time to actually read shit.

Waco is a town read?
I can understand ~

not feeling it

~, but a townread seems like something that should be a bit more tangible.

My gut on his first few posts was "seems pretty town." Not very strong, but I'd rather go like 5 different places today.

[BROseidon]

It's the consistent "honing in on the wrong things" from farside that makes me think he's scum.

wait is this a reason for a farside suspicion or a reason for a grib suspicion?

Farside.

Continuity with the previous post pls

farside = she

previous question still stands then

lol I'm dumb.

Previous question I'll assume I just answered.

[BROseidon]

Evidently not.

I like the part how you, in this post, are like "people sometimes do slip in individual posts" and then just did that here

[BROseidon]

so whats the smoking gun here?

There isn't one? Like, I'm not going to go through every post and explain why it's coming from scum. One, I'm too lazy, and two, it's disingenuous to say that every single post, or even single posts at all, are strong evidence for someone being scum. It's a wholistic thing with his behavior.

Do you have a case beyond "he's just pushing stupid shit" or do you have a rebuttal for the feeling that he believes the stuff that he's peddling or...?

I don't think he believes the shit he's peddling, given that he's just peddling whatever lets him make easy pushes.

[BROseidon]

I come back after 24 hours and there's wagons on two of my town reads?

Ugh I hate you all. Time to actually read shit.

Waco is a town read?
I can understand ~

not feeling it

~, but a townread seems like something that should be a bit more tangible.

My gut on his first few posts was "seems pretty town." Not very strong, but I'd rather go like 5 different places today.

which 5 places?

Grib
Farside
Key
Transcend
DS
Firebringer
kraska
Probably Snarky, tbh?

So yeah it's actually more than 5.

[BROseidon]

Do you have a similar view on MoI?

Not really, but I also don't really read his posts because they're all like 500 words.

[BROseidon]

Frankly I can't agree that this is good for Town in any way. Especially the bolded. You've been around long enough to know that the first players to go in Large games are competent Town. Your proposal effectively says "Yeh, I don't really want to try to solve the game yet. Let's give scum free reign to kill of the players who might have a clue early" and I don't for a second think Town Nacho would believe this is smart.

Haha this is a funny joke.

[BROseidon]

Okay the cherry picking player above is scum too.

Except I'm not cherrypicking?

It's a thing that you've done multiple times. Just because I only quote a single instance of it as I pass it doesn't negate the existence of the other instances.

Unless you don't have, like, whatever the mental equivalent of object permanence is.

[BROseidon]

tbf katsuki powerlurking is par for the curse.

VOTE: grib

Camn is part of the heads, she isn't lurky at all.

wtf was the point of this post?

Like, I can't actually articulate why this post is so dumb because of how dumb it is.

HEY FARSIDE.

YOU STUPID FUCK.

IT'S CALLED SUBTEXT.

OR CAN YOUR SCUMMY ASS NOT READ IT.

[BROseidon]

It's funny that you call me out for cherrypicking when:

1) Very few of my points have been tied to specific posts from players, because I don't fucking make reads that way.

2) YOU FUCKING IGNORE THE POST RIGHT BEFORE ONE OF THE ONES YOU QUOTE THAT DEMONSTRATES MY TRAJECTORY ON YOUR SLOT.

[BROseidon]

Like, you clearly read my posts.

You clearly saw 1309

You blatantly choose to ignore addressing it because you're more concerned with trying to demonstrate that I'm "scum" than actually trying to sort my slot.

[BROseidon]

Hey kid. Calm down. There is no need for you to swear at someone in all caps...

I don't tolerate scum or stupid.

Farside has clearly demonstrated that she's one of the two.

I'm going with the former over the latter.

[BROseidon]

If you can't handle being sworn at your yelled at in a game that's fundamentally about deception and emotion.

Maybe you shouldn't play mafia.

Just a thought.

[BROseidon]

This isn't emotion.

This is just a childish tantrum. You need to grow up.

Everything I want to say to you right now would probably get me banned again, so I'm leave you a piece of advice and then shut up:

Invalidating people's emotions is incredibly immature and terrible. You may not understand another person's frustration, anger, sadness, etc, but that doesn't make it inauthentic or "a childish tantrum."

You have the emotional intelligence of a robot. You've demonstrated throughout this game that you don't fundamentally understand that most people are emotional creatures. You don't fundamentally understand that mafia isn't a game of logic, or of reasoning, but of emotion. You don't understand how to engage with people in a way that doesn't make them not want to yell at you or worse.

Having emotions is not "needing to grow up." Emotions are a part of life - all of them. Without the downs, you never feel the ups. Anger and sadness and frustration are all natural feelings necessary to feel the joy and pleasure of the world.

Not all of us are sociopathic logicbots like you. So kindly shut the fuck up.

[BROseidon]

You've shown 0 empathy throughout this game.

Literally.

None.

[BROseidon]

Like, you've managed to get me and katsuki to not be at each other's throats because someone managed to piss us both off more than we piss each other off every time we're in a game together.

[BROseidon]

Also as if anything is objective in mafia.

[BROseidon]

I mean I guess flips and night actions are, but, like, it's day 1 so...

[BROseidon]

Am I the only one who didn't have a problem with Camn's attitude? I mean for christ sakes, a good chunk of us have been dicks to each other for the entire game.

Yeah tbh camntsuki being directly dickish is no worse than the passive-aggressive baiting the rest of the game is partaking in...

[BROseidon]

It doesn't matter what others were/are doing. The point is that Camnsuki took it to a level far beyond any sort of ignorable level.

Hahaha.

If you're being an insufferable POS, sometimes you deserve a verbal punch-in-the-face.

[BROseidon]

Don't be sorry.
Unless you're a top secret alt pretending to be new.
Then you should be sorry.

What?! Excuse me, No. And if all of you really don't like to play with me just because I am a 'newbie' then I can be replaced. Because it looks like that all of you don't want to play with me.

Mafia scum people really are terrifying. This is why I don't want to play here. Can y'all be more friendly?

Never lynching this

Ceph I feel like we're the same person sometimes.

Even though we totally aren't.

You didn't go see drag queens with me and Iec

[BROseidon]

I think you're townreading MOI for being MOI.

He writes a lot of words but I think those words kind of suck

I like to think of it as mastin-lite!

[BROseidon]

You supposed distain for shit-slinging peaks my interest given that you aren’t knocking either Camnt or Bro who personify that particular brand of posting.

You kind of answer your own question here; Katsuki and BRO are occasionally (not always, but occasionally) personifications of shit-slinging; as a result, I'm not particularly inclined to spend my time trying to convince them to stop.

No every game Katsuki and I are both in turns into shit-slinging.

Up till now it's been at each other, though. This time someone managed to piss us both off enough to change history!

[BROseidon]

I'm not Ceph but lmk if you ever see drag queens again

IIRC you don't live near me?

Also I was more referring to your interactions with Ceph b/c the entire time through it I was just like "lol Ceph is me."

Except I would have pre-emptively just been like "scumread on me incoming for personal reasons."

[BROseidon]

68 pages ;_;

Thank all the people who say "Large walls are anti-Town" and proceed to put what could be easily summarized in a single post in a string of 5 to 15 posts thus artificially inflating the page count which is hella Anti-Town.

Except people actually read my posts, and they make the game a quick read

[BROseidon]

That's probably not true.

Personal reasons have a lot to do with how people get read.

[BROseidon]

It doesn't necessarily mean "I hate person x therefore I always scumread them"

But emotional blindspots fuck with your reads. My biggest blindspots are AP (may he rest in piece) and Iecerint!

[BROseidon]

Pick literally any other activity next time :p

Dude Tatianna fucking

slayed

, although she always does so that isn't special.

Also that hilarious thing happened.

[BROseidon]

It doesn't necessarily mean "I hate person x therefore I always scumread them"

But emotional blindspots fuck with your reads. My biggest blindspots are AP (may he rest in piece) and Iecerint!

i am a robot bro calculate that

We'll see how much of a ROBOT you are when I blindside your ass again in [insert next survivor game we're in together]

[BROseidon]

Omg Spiffeh maybe we can be friends for once (re: your farside read)

VOTE: Waco let's just end this stupid day

[BROseidon]

tbf that's basically what the scumteam in 167 tried to do >.>

[BROseidon]

(also fuck 167)

[BROseidon]

@BRO why do you think farside is scum?

Because of the reasons I've already stated?

The primary thing is a consistent "missing the point" from farside. Like, it'll either be:

1) Farside responds to an idea that is sort of tangential to the original post, but not the core idea.
2) Farside makes an argument built around specific posts/ideas from a players play without consideration of the whole, which tends to come from a mindset of "I need to demonstrate that this person is scum" over "what alignment makes the most sense based on what this person has said or done"

[BROseidon]

Steal the scum's NK?

Oh wait Ceph was scum that game.

[BROseidon]

We also need Dramonic for that.

[BROseidon]

@BRO why do you think farside is scum?

Because of the reasons I've already stated?

The primary thing is a consistent "missing the point" from farside. Like, it'll either be:

1) Farside responds to an idea that is sort of tangential to the original post, but not the core idea.
2) Farside makes an argument built around specific posts/ideas from a players play without consideration of the whole, which tends to come from a mindset of "I need to demonstrate that this person is scum" over "what alignment makes the most sense based on what this person has said or done"

Wow this is exactly what I said bro was doing.
What a novel concept.

Your case on me is literally "no, u"

[BROseidon]

Steal the scum's NK?

Oh wait Ceph was scum that game.

Yeah, ceph can be dram. Spiffeh can be faraday

Who's Skrew, then? Do we need to have auditions?

[BROseidon]

Why is BRO so high?

generally they hold addictive qualities

This post made me LOL xD

-Luna

>.>

[BROseidon]

What the fuck is with people's fixation with hammering?

[BROseidon]

MJ are confirmed town.

Scum also probably don't have a roleblocker, but that's just spec based on MJ's ability actually going through on me.

[BROseidon]

There is no way that they could be confirmed town. They could have their role confirmed, but they can't have their alignment confirmed by acting on another.

The role is called Friendly Neighbor you moron.

[BROseidon]

DS sorry for calling you a moron but please learn your common roles before asserting that I'm making a technical mistake.

Because I don't make technical mistakes as town.

Ever.

[BROseidon]

This is where I currently stand:
Anti's list may differ, but this how I (Luna) currently feel about the game.

Luna's Foxy reads list v 1.0

Strong town:

BROseidon
Spiffeh
Cephrir
hiplop

Towny:

Transcend
Firebringer
kraska77

Imperium (Nachomamma8/Tammy hydra)

keyenpeydee

Medical Junkies (KuroiXHF/Malakittens hydra) (!) <- Pending supposed conf town d2 claim before moving further up.

Grib
kdowns

Leftovers:

DiamondSentinel
farside22
MagnaofIllusion
SnarkySnowman

Waco Kid

Here's Luna's last read list.

I'm trying to work through why Fox would get shot by scum over a number of other high-profile players in this game. N1 shot is best used to remove a townie who has a scumread on one or more of the more townread members of the scumteam. Obviously that wasnt TammyCho.

This makes me think that there's very like 1-2 scum in {DS, farside, MoI}. Snarky being scum probably wouldn't have gotten Fox shot, since Snarky's not a scum member that the team would try to protect until endgame. DS is probably the most likely to be town out of those 3 based on him also getting pretty seriously wagoned day 1 as well.

VOTE: Farside

(hooray using NKA to further things that I already believe!)

[BROseidon]

hiplop and MoI aren't scum together, though.

Probably worth noting.

[BROseidon]

VOTE: spiffeh

FB am I doing it right???

[BROseidon]

Friendly neighbor isn't a particularly powerful role?

[BROseidon]

Also assuming the setup is like 14/4, town should have a pretty high amount of power given that the EV for scum in a mountainous with those numbers is like over 70% iirc.

[BROseidon]

VOTE: spiffeh

FB am I doing it right???

Yes, you are.

Cool I'll just take a timeout then b/c apparently I'm off this game.

[BROseidon]

Roleblocker could have also been afraid of getting caught by a watch?

[BROseidon]

Friendly neighbor isn't a particularly powerful role?

It's objectively more powerful than IC, as it forces the scum to try to go in a 1v1 with town (if they lie) or to reveal a confirmed townie, if they happen to be chosen.

Also, if scum want to stop it, then it forces them to waste a kill/roleblock on a less-than-favorable slot.

People don't listen to you because you say shit like this.

[BROseidon]

we should really just lynch spiffeh tbh.

I'd also rather a full-claim from firebringer but w/e.

[BROseidon]

We aren't lynching 24 hours into the game day.

If you have a guilty this is exactly what we're doing

[BROseidon]

We aren't lynching 24 hours into the game day.

If you have a guilty this is exactly what we're doing

No. We need to spend this time getting more information from each other, Why would you want to end this day so early when its more beneficial to get more information out of everyone.

No.

More data isn't a good thing. It gives town more time to distract itself and scum more time to mist all over the place.

We have a guilty.

We take the lynch and move on
We take it

[BROseidon]

DS I'm just gonna keep calling you a moron if you insist on keeping to spout drivel.

[BROseidon]

Like you're insulting my intelligence and person at this point and you need to stop

[BROseidon]

Like you're insulting my intelligence and person at this point and you need to stop

I never insulted your intelligence. Only the dubious amount of credibility you have this game.

I'll take "things that credibility implies for 200," Alex.

Not to mention your entire attitude towards me this entire game has been that of a condescending prick because your ideas about how mafia should be played are wrong, and you can't accept that.

[BROseidon]

DS, let me be clear:

If I were the mod, the same standard that got Camntsuki force-replaced this game would get you force-replaced as well, because you are being a massive passive-aggresive piece of shit. You're lucky you exist in a world where WASP values of passive-aggression are normalized, and therefore it's okay to passive-aggressively goad people on, but not okay for people to react to those being passive aggressive.

[BROseidon]

I have a few minutes so my issue with Bro as I said was how he takes a few quotes from players and calls them scum.
He doesn't take everything stated in the game and just votes for those few post he found and calls the player scum.

Here are a few examples.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8249987
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8249385

This is where I asked Imp about there view on Bro http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p8249679
The response: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p8249688

Plus add that bro and imp had no interaction what-so-ever in the game and you can understand why I'm scum reading Bro a bit more.

You're literally cherry-picking to call me scum for cherrypicking

[BROseidon]

It's also literally the only thing you've said about me over and over.

[BROseidon]

If I were a vig, I'd have shot DS last night for my sanity and then farside tonight because she's actually scum.

[BROseidon]

I have a few minutes so my issue with Bro as I said was how he takes a few quotes from players and calls them scum.
He doesn't take everything stated in the game and just votes for those few post he found and calls the player scum.

Here are a few examples.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8249987
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8249385

What's wrong with that?

What do you think of farside repeating the "bro is cherrypicking" arguments when all of my reads have been articulated in wholistic/"feels" form, and farside is literally just pointing to the places where I point out specific examples of broader trends?

[BROseidon]

Mala don't bother.

These people won't understand.

[BROseidon]

farside can you stop blatantly lying and wait for your turn to get your scummy ass lynched?

It'd save us a lot of trouble.

[BROseidon]

OKAY YOU MISERABLE PIECE OF SHIT, YOU WANNA GO:

1:

Ooh ooh is Mala not posting?

Mala not posting when she's in a hydra is a super scumtell for her!

Case is based on broad trends (turned out to be wrong but w/e, still proves you're peddling bullshit and need to die in a fucking fire this game)

2:

Ooh ooh is Mala not posting?

Mala not posting when she's in a hydra is a super scumtell for her!

tbf Grib I've considered doing the same to get you and DS out of this game, and I've never seriously pushed a PL before.

Like, you're both being intentionally disruptive. With DS, IIRC I think he just is like that, but with you I don't have that context so...

Based on broad trends

3:

tbf katsuki powerlurking is par for the curse.

VOTE: grib

Camn is part of the heads, she isn't lurky at all.

wtf was the point of this post?

Like, I can't actually articulate why this post is so dumb because of how dumb it is.

Initial foundation of my scumread on you, based on first instance of you pulling shit out of context in ways that don't make sense.

4:

Post 1062 by camn is scummy. I think she deserves to be lynched.
UNVOTE: Snarky
VOTE: Camntsuki

Someone tell me why we are calling this newbtown again? Because I'm not particularly feeling it.

Overall read based on gut. The fact that you would probably call this "quoting a post" shows how you're missing notions of context within this game (which is traditionally a scum thing to do)

5:

so whats the smoking gun here?

There isn't one? Like, I'm not going to go through every post and explain why it's coming from scum. One, I'm too lazy, and two, it's disingenuous to say that every single post, or even single posts at all, are strong evidence for someone being scum. It's a wholistic thing with his behavior.

Literally me saying that what farside is accusing me of doing is stupid.

6:

It's the consistent "honing in on the wrong things" from farside that makes me think he's scum.

Back to farside, which is, again, a broad trends issue

etc

etc

Now shut the fuck up and wait for your turn for the rope you miserable pile of scummy shit.

[BROseidon]

This game will go one of two ways...

Either I have great town-buddies and we've already found the scum team, or the players who are actually playing decently are scum, and it's just that there're enough embarrassments that their stupidity crowds-out the good play of the scum.

PEdit: Bro, you want to have a repeat of UNI MUM and Camnsutki? Because those insults are way out of line.

I have not gone into any gendered, able-ist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, etc, language.

The insults are fine.

I'm sorry that you can't deal with someone dealing with things in a way that isn't being passive aggressive.

[BROseidon]

Also: Why the fuck are we forming counter-wagons when we have a fucking guilty.

[BROseidon]

Yeah farside is really obviously town

Caught scum with the ~WIFOM~

[BROseidon]

farside just fuck off.

I'm not addressing you the rest of this fucking game.

[BROseidon]

Also: Why the fuck are we forming counter-wagons when we have a fucking guilty.

1. FB fake-guilties all the time.

2. Spiffeh has shown no mechanical inconsistencies, and there are people who haven't found him terribly scummy.

3. FB has shown numerous red flags. e.g.

"Let's slow down this wagon" - This is a classic red-flag, which points to a fake-guilty.

He also tried to "reason out his vote" when he had a guilty, which should have been the only reason he needed.

Okay, we don't power-lynch Spiffeh if FB says it was a fucking reaction test.

If he doesn't say that it was a reaction test next post, we power-lynch his ass and go into night so I can fucking not have to deal with your bullshit anymore.

[BROseidon]

VOTE: ds

[BROseidon]

it's okay bb i'm here for you.

[BROseidon]

I'm willing to consider it if there were actually something there but it looks like people are voting him because he gets on their nerves which is like

ignore him and get over it?

No I actually think he's scum at this point.

[BROseidon]

Hehe

I find it funny that the only person who's ever played with me that's voting me is FB. Of course, it makes sense, though, as I've never been impressed with his play.

Plz fix that, broski

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=65649

[BROseidon]

reaction

lol this post is so bad

omg hippy stop cherry picking

haha yeah

[BROseidon]

If you were a friendly neighbor, then there was no way that it wouldn't work, so I really really want to call bullshit on it. Enlighten me, please.

Wait wtf I missed this.

This implies that DS knows that scum don't have a roleblocker.

[BROseidon]

Ceph are you scum?

[BROseidon]

Gotta love how people are still calling us scum when we are mod confirmed town to a person.

~M

This game is morons idk why we try

[BROseidon]

Wonders how anyone can say the majority that lynched a town player is majority town.

so we have six scum? interesting

No it has to be 7

Imperium wasn't on the Waco wagon at the end of the day.

[BROseidon]

It's a commentary on how stupid the thing farside said is.

[BROseidon]

It is though, your statement implied the wagon was majority scum.

It's not implied.

It's literally explicitly stated.

[BROseidon]

Or that the game is somewhat bastard.

Uh...

Is it possible your game has any of the following: cults, mid-game alignment changes, moderator lies that cannot be reasonably anticipated (for example, Godfather, Tailor, Miller, Ninja, and mechanics like that are generally fine. Telling someone they are a reflexive doctor when they're actually a PGO is not), secret win conditions, un-divulged non-randomness in player role/alignment generation, direct moderator influence during the game? (Yes/No) - No

[BROseidon]

Scum don't need information right now. Town does. Ergo, it's in our best interest to claim flavor.

Why aren't we lynching this holy fuck.

[BROseidon]

This game is morons idk why we try

I mean you've done an excellent job proving my point.

Ceph and MJ are the only people I don't want to reach through the internet and punch in the face at this point. I guess hiplop, too, but that's because I like the guy and he isn't doing anything.

Which puts him above you.

Think about that for 2 fucking seconds you prick.

[BROseidon]

Why aren't we lynching this holy fuck.

Because being bad is not alignment indicative. Duh.

At a certain point it is.

"Too scummy to be scum" is sometimes "just scum"

[BROseidon]

Read Imperium's iso and tell me you're still convinced DS is scum

Nacho is as addicted to bussing as I am to things I probably shouldn't mention in a mafia game.

[BROseidon]

I haven't been that bad yet!

Yeah I guess I haven't gotten banned yet so you're probably fine.

[BROseidon]

Like, I'm probably going to get lynched with 2 scum on my wagon today.

I'll flip town. People will STILL somehow call MJ scum because this game is literally that full of stupid.

MJ will get mislynched and flip friendly neighbor.

And I'll probably have an aneurysm by then.

[BROseidon]

How about we meet in the middle and lynch whoever I want to lynch

Is who you want to lynch in {DS, farside, grib, keyen, MoI}

Because that's my list at this point, although MoI is to get his bullshit out of the game more than actually thinking he's scum.

[BROseidon]

tbh I could also probably to Transcend or kraska but those are more along the lines of "if I'm wrong, it's probably there" than "these are probably scum"

[BROseidon]

Why aren't we lynching this holy fuck.

Because being bad is not alignment indicative. Duh.

At a certain point it is.

"Too scummy to be scum" is sometimes "just scum"

Yep but it doesn't mean they're really scum. It's just luck.

[BROseidon]

This seems like a good interaction for Transcend to me.

Good as in townie?

Because Nacho's point is actually right, and would make a lot of sense if Transcend were an alt.

[BROseidon]

Not all of us have watched crap TV from when America was super racist and terrible, DS

[BROseidon]

This seems like a good interaction for Transcend to me.

Good as in townie?

Because Nacho's point is actually right, and would make a lot of sense if Transcend were an alt.

Yes, that's what I meant

Yeah I kind of agree, but it's a bit contingent on Transcend being an alt b/c I don't know how he knows scumcho's MO w/o some sort of coaching or just luck.

[BROseidon]

Is who you want to lynch in {DS, farside, grib, keyen, MoI}

Because that's my list at this point, although MoI is to get his bullshit out of the game more than actually thinking he's scum.

And this illustrates why you need rope.

Grib and Farside are most probably Town.
I've yet to see anything out of you in the way of a case to support either DS or Key from you.

And you are by far the most toxic presence left in the game after Katsuki was replaced. So if anyone needs to go simply to improve the quality of the thread it is you.

So you lynch list is bad.

My lynch list is probably 2 scum and 3 people I'm wrong on. I'm probably wrong on you b/c I remember feeling basically the same about you in Soccer Spirits, and you flipped town there, you're just pissing me off with your self-righteous, holier-than-thou bullshit.

[BROseidon]

Not all of us have watched crap TV from when America was super racist and terrible, DS

Oh boy! Already throwing in the racist card.

It was a show meant to be silly. It wasn't meant to speak to race-relations....


Also, how the

fuck

can you say that TV isn't terrible today...


But I digress.

I was saying that mid-late 1970s America was super fucking racist and terrible, given that it was the era of the rise of the religious right. But I digress.

TV today is much better.

[BROseidon]

MoI, you want cases.

The cases against DS and farside are both that you can quote basically everything they've said in this game and respond to it with this 4-second youtube clip:

[BROseidon]

The case against keyen from me is mostly gut. He's playing up the newb card super hard in a way that makes me uncomfortable and lets himself get pushed around in the game. It reminds me of some of how I got pushed around by loud/"strong" players in my early scum games.

[BROseidon]

The case against grib and you, MoI, are that you're both assholes.

Which I guess probably means that you two are reads I'm wrong about, but I don't really care. Would still lynch.

[BROseidon]

Ceph.

Nobody wants to lynch that.

When that is the level of logic he's provided consistently this game.

What are we doing with our lives that we're stuck here.

[BROseidon]

I guess I shouldn't say nobody because he keeps getting almost lynched and then not.

Which should also be a massive red flag.

But people like MoI exist and ruin everything.

[BROseidon]

Ceph, how I feel about MoI right now is much like Katie felt about Caryn:

[BROseidon]

From my POV he's quite the opposite of a utility lynch. He's a real player who can actually be read, who I can understand, and who is providing me with morale.

This falls under the category of "Your morale means little to me since he's scummy as fuck and toxic".

How about this:

I stop calling you stupid

When you stop posting things that are stupid.

[BROseidon]

Oh I'm going to have fun with this one once I'm done with lunch!

[BROseidon]

(However, should Bro flip scum, 100% check the wagon for a bus. If Bro is scum and MJ is town, then this a very favorable bus, as this throws shade on MJ)

It only would because you're all not very bright tbh.

Even as scum, I'll always claim a friendly neighbor truthfully. And the idea that scum-me would start a game trying to bus my partner and forcing a gambit is pretty dumb.

[BROseidon]

Why does this vote appear the second after I move off hiplop?

Because DS is scum and you're going to great lengths to justify why that isn't the case.

[BROseidon]

So I’ll lay out a Bro case for everyone to see to encourage them to do the correct thing and lynch him.

First off take a look at it yourself. It is filled to the brim with fluff posting and not much scum-hunting.

Yeah I'm a fluffly poster. Not alignment-indicative.

As far as scumhunting goes, I've done plenty of that. Just because I don't post massive walls and read lists doesn't mean that I'm not engaging, forming reads, pushing things, etc. I'm sorry if you don't have the intellectual flexibility to understand scumhunting that happens in ways that isn't identical to your own.

And what scum hunting is presented has either been proven incorrect from Bro’s perspective (Mala lurks as scum from 888 for example).

Mala is the only read that I've gotten wrong. So now me having a wrong read day 1 is a sign of me being scum. Congrats, you've just called every mafia player ever scum, by extension.

Also take a close look at 1940 – very scummy attempt to use an existing list from Fox as support which

feels

very, very pre-planned.

For someone who's going to later attack me for being a primarily gut-driven player, you sure like using gut here!

Back in the day, it seemed like I could nail nacho as scum EVERY TIME.
But since I came back, he is a mystery. Maybe it's me, but I think he just got crazy good.

It's you

Oh, so Nacho is easy to read as scum? Odd that Imperium was never once on Bro’s radar then. Especially given Nacho was the architect of the wagon on Bro’s supposed Town read in Waco.

This is the one point you make that isn't completely stupid.

What you're missing, though, is context, which is going to be a recurring theme throughout this. Context, both within a game and over the course of many games going back three years, matters a lot. I've played a ton of games with Nacho. I've seen him as both alignments, and he's seen me as both alignments. We've been scum together multiple times as well. As players, we know each other super well.

So without that history, there really isn't a way for you to know how I read Nacho. I don't attempt to form a read on him day 1 anymore. It's kind of a useless thing, given the lens through which I play mafia combined with the way he plays scum. There are certain patterns I look for in how he pushes wagons and who he pushes them on to, but the data there isn't super useful to me until I have flips on at least a few of those wagons. Who he pushes combined with the general way in which he pushes them and how he appeals to the game to make them happen are how I read Nacho, but I can't come to a conclusion until late day 2 at the earliest.

Speaking of which …

I come back after 24 hours and there's wagons on two of my town reads?

Ugh I hate you all. Time to actually read shit.

Funny that Waco is a Town read for Bro given that Bro NEVER mentioned them at all before this very post in his ISO. It’s a fun game. Do a search through Bro’s ISO for Waco and see how many hints you get. Hint – it is less than 10 and not direct interactions with Waco at all.

Your argument amounts to the fact that I don't post readlists. Congrats, you've just implied that all players who don't post readlists are scum. Good job, you so smart!

tbh my case against jumping on Waco is ~just not feeling it~, but camntsuki are super obviously town, so...

I'mma sit on my vanity wagon and wait for you guys to see the light.

And here’s the most detailed explanation of why Waco is Town that you will find in Bro’s posting history. Not very convincing. More indicative that he know Waco was Town because they aren’t partners.

Or I'm primarily a gut-driven player. There are a handful of players I have non-gut based ways of reading (Nacho and Mala being two in this game I have non-gut ways of reading), but most players, especially ones I'm unfamiliar with, I mostly read with gut then look for what's pinging the gut if people start asking about it.

Next we get …

Waco is a town read?
I can understand ~

not feeling it

~, but a townread seems like something that should be a bit more tangible.

My gut on his first few posts was "seems pretty town." Not very strong, but I'd rather go like 5 different places today.

This reads as scum interacting with each other. Nacho, who has a “case” on Waco just questions Bro on why Waco is a Town read. And Bro gives a pat, empty answer. No pressure from either side to move positions. No significant followup on either side. Just light interaction to make a few links with no depth to it.

My answer isn't empty. He asked why I had a read, I answered. The hypothetical exchange you think should have happened would have been nacho repeatedly asking "why" and me saying "gut." Nacho would know that, and was more interested in the second part of what I said (who I would rather lynch).

And Bro goes out of his way to defend Imperium when I called his “Utility Lynch” idea bad via discrediting in 1450.

What I was laughing at was the notion that players within a game don't change their level of effort or strength of play over time. Different players play in different ways - some come out of the gate super strong and make a ton of shit happen, whereas others will blend into the background early and move into the foreground later. Different players take different roles depending on the other players in the game.

Nacho specifically couldn't take another position in his post because he knows how I play. He knows I hate day 1, and he knows that I can absolutely break a game 3-4 days in. I wouldn't be posting this much, tbh, if Ceph weren't the only active poster making any fucking sense.

Omg Spiffeh maybe we can be friends for once (re: your farside read)

VOTE: Waco let's just end this stupid day

And here is the hop on the mislynch wagon. No interactions or comments about Waco in his ISO – just hopping on to “end the Day” which is a scummy transition.

And here you sound like a Tea Partier.

Mafia isn't a game where you can be completely principled and just yell until you get your way. There's a degree of compromise no matter what. Sometimes your first choice isn't going to get lynched. Sometimes, none of the people you want lynched aren't going to get lynched, and sitting there throwing a tantrum about it isn't going to make the game move any better. This is a lesson I learned the hard way. I compromised onto Waco because the other option was a stronger townread, and literally nothing else was happening that day. At that point, it's better to hope that I'm wrong than to make the game a slog.

MJ are confirmed town.

Scum also probably don't have a roleblocker, but that's just spec based on MJ's ability actually going through on me.

Hey remember when Bro called Diamond scummy for “knowing there was no Roleblocker” yet this post which greatly pre-dates it is the exact same thought process from Bro.

Cognitive Dissonance at work in full effect. That’s scummy for those of you who don’t know …

And this is where you seem to intentionally ignore context. Compared to when I made my comment about DS, I had acquired the information of MJ's ability actually going through on me, when a scum-RBer would have likely been there N1. Is context really that hard for you?

Hey hiplop I'm trying to read this game and it's reminding me of why I hate mafia, so I have 2 questions:

1) Are you town?
2) Who should I vote for?

This is here mostly to show that if Bro flips scum Hiplop despite being scummy as heck probably isn’t. I don’t see scum buddying up to a partner so obviously.

The idea that this is out of my scumrange is funny tbh.

The overt buddying done to Camnt also makes me think that Spiff is probably just bad Town if Bro flips scum. See 1319 as an example.

Summary for Those Who Think “Reading is Hard” – ISO dominated by fluff and fake-rage as opposed to trying to solve the game, interactions with Nacho that look like partners laying down soft links, strong buddying to players for self-defense purposes, scummy reasoning for voting mislynch Waco.

Vote away!

Summary for those who think "Reading is Hard:" MoI doesn't understand intuition or context, and is more concerned with demonstrating why I'm scum than critically thinking about the evidence in the text. Someone must have failed high school English pretty hard tbh.

[BROseidon]

And yet the only non-RVS, non-known Town (at least to you) player he voted Day1 was Snarky. Yet Snarky is nowhere near your radar / lynch list ...

You wanna do Snarky?

I'd do Snarky over hiplop.

[BROseidon]

I could say 2+2=4 and you'd still bitch about how I was wrong.

No, you would say 2+2=5 then bitch about how you were saying 2+2=4 all along.

[BROseidon]

PEdit: GOD I REALLY WISH I HAD A VIG! THIS IS HAIR-TEARINGLY AWFUL

I mean you do have a nightkill which is sort of like a vig except for scum?

[BROseidon]

Walls are nearly always useful.

lol

[BROseidon]

Spiffeh pls do more b/c I think you're actually town this game.

[BROseidon]

BRO I think kdowns is scum but no one else thinks so

I've explained why and no one cared

Why isn't he on your radar?

Because other people are scummier/pissing me off.

I wouldn't try to stop a kdowns wagon.

[BROseidon]

BRO if you're town you need to stop going after farside

She is like the only town read I'm confident in atm

Well your read is wrong.

[BROseidon]

pie I'm sorry you rolled scum

[BROseidon]

@Bro- I was gonna say it's pretty bold of you to say that when you're a much bigger wagon than I am, but you aren't anymore actually

Why do you think keyz was scum?

Boils down to two things:

1) How much he threw around the "I'm a newb I'm so lost" card

2) How easily he was bullied on to/off of wagons. Newb scum are often yes-men because they don't want to rub people the wrong way/stick out too much. My play in Xenoblade and NY165 had a lot of this (although not nearly as overt as key's here).

[BROseidon]

#2 is the much bigger reason, though.

[BROseidon]

Pie is off my lynch-list to give him time to town up the slot and restore my sanity.

[BROseidon]

And because I'm feeling frisky mj I included a game where you play with bro and he was town

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

And now adamantly demand a better reason for the so called town read.

You wanna talk about cherry-picking?

You've quoted 3 games out of the over 40 that I've played.

[BROseidon]

And I've played a pretty good chunk of those with Mala, who's a part of that hyrda.

[BROseidon]

lol

[BROseidon]

This kdowns wagon is dumb can we just finish off DS already.

[BROseidon]

I'll have you know that I inhale stupid, which is a very good thing, because there is so much in here, without me recycling it into something worthwhile, we would all die from the toxic levels of stupid in this thread.

That are 100% your fault.

[BROseidon]

scum designated mislynch to me

Who are the scum designating the mislynch. You'd be looking for 2, probably.

[BROseidon]

Ceph did you roll scum.

I'm starting to think you're scum

[BROseidon]

Because you don't want to lynch anyone.

[BROseidon]

Well we've already established...

You know what

Nevermind

Sit in your corner.

[BROseidon]

"I don't like people calling me scum or telling me my thoughts are bad in a mafia game."

Then why fucking play mafia.

[BROseidon]

where is mala

if shes going to be maybeconfirmed town she should be in here giving us thoughts

I would more want her around for my sanity.

[BROseidon]

Also this constant circling back to a hiplop push feels the most like the scum-designated mislynch of the day, and I'm pretty happy that it's going nowhere.

[BROseidon]

That would require me to be scum.

[BROseidon]

a. Subtext is hard, let's go shopping.

b. lol. And you've been a passive-aggressive whiner who goaded a player into being force-replaced. At least I'm forthright about not being a nice person.

[BROseidon]

Why do people think being nice is such a chore.

Because it is sometimes.

[BROseidon]

Like, the sequence of events from my POV has basically been:

1) A bunch of people are dicks to me, misrepresenting what I say and attacking my intelligence, dignity, and right to play mafia in my style.

2) I don't hold back (beyond what the laws of the game require me to) because if you're going to fundamentally attack me as a person (as either a tactic or because fuck you), I'm not going to sit and take it.

3) People complain that I'm being mean to them or their friends.

Like, grow the fuck up. If you can't take being attacked directly in a game of mafia, don't fucking play mafia. Especially if you're going to spend the game spewing idiotic bullshit from your mouth. One thing that Katsuki and I at least have is a self-awareness of when we are being dicks to people. DS, farside, MoI, Grib, you all seem to fundamentally lack that self-awareness. You legitimately don't seem to understand why at every turn I'm being a dick to you,

because none of you have had an interaction at any point with me that demonstrated that you have any respect for me.

You don't respect me? Fine, but I'm not going to show you any respect back.

This is also an issue I have, in general, with how we've come to moderate toxicity on this site. You're allowed to be mean in a very middle-school mean girls sort of way, but you can't respond to it in ways that are appropriate within certain cultural lenses. You all complain about me being mean? Holy fuck you wouldn't have lasted a day in my house growing up. Western WASP-derived passive-aggressiveness isn't something we all grew up in. Some of us grew up in houses where expressing all our emotions, including frustration and anger, in direct, meaningful was was normal. And that's not allowed here because of the dominant culture of people who end up on the site. For some people from other cultural backgrounds, that's going to be a clash.

This is also tied to why I think there

has

to be scum in there, because I don't think the four of you can all have your heads so far up each other's asses - someone has to be playing the others. It's why I'm wary of Ceph - he's doing some shit that's pinging me, and he's playing to my ego and our relationship that spans mafia games going back since I joined the site, meets we've both attended, Survivor games in mishmash, and the Skype channels we're in tied to those Survivor games. Him playing to my ego could be just a sort of natural thing if he's town b/c we tend to see things in a similar way, but there's always going to be a degree of paranoia that he's playing that up to try to get into a blindspot. If he's scum, it may not even be intentional - it could be completely intuitive/natural, or it could be my personal feelings blinding how I make a read there (like I've said, there are certain players, although not ones in this game, who I'll refuse to ever commit to a read on because I fundamentally cannot read them).

[BROseidon]

Make an actual effort unless you want to chase more people out.

I have.

Actually, since I've started engaging with this game, I've provided far more useful content than you have.

So put up or shut up.

[BROseidon]

Oh I interpreted that as making an effort in the game.

A few people not wanting to play with me isn't that big of a concern to me. Fuck, what I said to Spiffeh in Buzzfeed was far, far worse than anything I've said to anyone in this game, and yet he's still here.

Grow up.

[BROseidon]

I haven't read the rest of your wall because I'm walking and phoneposting, in case there was something else in there.

tl;dr get your head out of your ass about your attitude and also about being so blind to potential scum sitting in a blindspot if you're town. You don't have the moral highground here, as much as you think you do due to your Euro-WASP centricity.

[BROseidon]

You're not allowed to make jokes when I'm trying to decide if you're scum or not.

Spoiler: kinda ?oog? stuff

Like, the sequence of events from my POV has basically been:

1) A bunch of people are dicks to me, misrepresenting what I say and attacking my intelligence, dignity, and right to play mafia in my style.

2) I don't hold back (

beyond what the laws of the game require me to

) because if you're going to fundamentally attack me as a person (as either a tactic or because fuck you), I'm not going to sit and take it.

3) People complain that I'm being mean to them or their friends.

I won't really comment on this stuff because there's probably a lot of players you felt have done this, and I can't really speak for them.

I don't ~think I've gone out of my way to be mean to you (as in instigating a fight), but if I have, then I apologize.

I will say that I think the underlined is problematic, because deliberately pushing people (even if you think they deserve it) tends to just escalate and make everyone upset.

Like, grow the fuck up. If you can't take being attacked directly in a game of mafia, don't fucking play mafia. Especially if you're going to spend the game spewing idiotic bullshit from your mouth. One thing that Katsuki and I at least have is a self-awareness of when we are being dicks to people. DS, farside, MoI, Grib, you all seem to fundamentally lack that self-awareness. You legitimately don't seem to understand why at every turn I'm being a dick to you,

because none of you have had an interaction at any point with me that demonstrated that you have any respect for me.

You don't respect me? Fine, but I'm not going to show you any respect back.

Eh, also something I disagree with. Not everyone has thick skin, and handwaving them aside and saying they shouldn't play mafia is borderline bullying them out of the game. The whole "spewing" thing is another matter, especially if it turns personal. If you simply don't like someone's reads or pushes, that's not a free pass to be mean to them. I've seen a lot of the latter this game.

Acknowledging you are a dick and continuing to be a dick is not something to be proud of.

I will freely acknowledge that it's easy for me to slip into being a passive-aggressive asshole. I try to control myself when I can, but I also give in to not wanting to "lose" the argument by stepping away first.

Looking through my posts (specifically showcasing an interaction with you), I see that I might have started being PA to you because you said I was deliberately being disruptive and it was worth a policy lynch, the reasons for which you didn't elaborate on and I never understood. I probably also thought you were treating several players unfairly, so I reacted to that.

This is also an issue I have, in general, with how we've come to moderate toxicity on this site. You're allowed to be mean in a very middle-school mean girls sort of way, but you can't respond to it in ways that are appropriate within certain cultural lenses. You all complain about me being mean? Holy fuck you wouldn't have lasted a day in my house growing up. Western WASP-derived passive-aggressiveness isn't something we all grew up in. Some of us grew up in houses where expressing all our emotions, including frustration and anger, in direct, meaningful was was normal. And that's not allowed here because of the dominant culture of people who end up on the site. For some people from other cultural backgrounds, that's going to be a clash.

Okay, there's a difference in how people deal with expressing emotions. We're probably just going to have to have a difference of opinion here: I still don't think that makes lashing out at strangers okay.

I mean, anger is fine. Frustration is fine. Expressing it is fine. But going beyond that and attempting to deliberately make the other person feel bad is not. Plus, you're making a lot of assumptions about the other person behind the screen. You aren't a special snowflake. I don't say that to be mean, or PA.

But yeah, culture clash.

This is also tied to why I think there

has

to be scum in there, because I don't think the four of you can all have your heads so far up each other's asses - someone has to be playing the others. It's why I'm wary of Ceph - he's doing some shit that's pinging me, and he's playing to my ego and our relationship that spans mafia games going back since I joined the site, meets we've both attended, Survivor games in mishmash, and the Skype channels we're in tied to those Survivor games. Him playing to my ego could be just a sort of natural thing if he's town b/c we tend to see things in a similar way, but there's always going to be a degree of paranoia that he's playing that up to try to get into a blindspot. If he's scum, it may not even be intentional - it could be completely intuitive/natural, or it could be my personal feelings blinding how I make a read there (like I've said, there are certain players, although not ones in this game, who I'll refuse to ever commit to a read on because I fundamentally cannot read them).

Ceph has popped up on my radar as well. I think the first sign of it for me was because I thought most of the people he wanted to lynch were town.

More than anything, my problem is that I think this site fosters an environment where everyone thinks it's okay to be as mean as they want, as long as it's within the boundaries of the site's rules (which are pretty out there). And then people who don't like that are told to stop playing mafia, or get off the Internet, or to

die

, a la camntsuki. Sure, they probably didn't mean it literally, but it's still definitely not okay.

Like. This site has a /ban thread/. And a lot of the people banned are repeat offenders, who can't seem to learn their lesson, because they think they're entitled to being as mean as they want, because it's Not Against The Rules, blah blah blah, the cycle continues. I find that problematic.

But I digress.

tl;dr we could all probably stand to be less mean in whatever way we express it and reel the focus back onto finding scum.

Because most of us are teammates and we should be working together.

I'll try to put together a reads list or something soon.

The issue with this is that a certain level of meanness and toxicity is implicit in a game where a group of people are trying to deceive everyone else and are peddling bullshit, lying, etc to do it.

Like my reason for scumreading farside (now Zulfy) has to do with her consistently misrepping or outright lying about what I have said, what I am saying, and ignoring context on a consistent basis. What am I supposed to do when she's just blatantly trying to peddle bullshit? Sit there and take it? No, I'm going to call her out on it. That's implicitly not going to be a nice thing to do, especially when she then gets defensive and tries to "no u" me over and over again.

Telling people to die, get hurt, etc goes too far, but you can't expect mafia not to get heated. It's also a lot more enjoyable when both parties in a heated fight accept that's what's going on. My shitpost fests against Katsuki in other games have been some of my favorite things because we both know what's going on and aren't afraid to go for the throat. Anything Goes is simultaneously one of the most frustrating but amazing games because of how hilarious shit got b/w me and Katsuki.

[BROseidon]

Grib the issue I have with your read list is that it's completely different from mine.

[BROseidon]

Also VCA on day 2 is not very useful. You need a lot more flips to start forming groups based on how votes are moving around.

[BROseidon]

I think the majority of my townread on Magna stems from me agreeing with ~almost everything he's said.

See this bothers me because MoI's entire case on me was a steaming pile of shit and you also have me as a townread.

Unless that wall was the ~almost.

[BROseidon]

Hi friends.

I'm sorry you rolled scum

[BROseidon]

Eh I guess that's less inconsistent, although still somewhat inconsistent.

Also "I agree with what this person says" is a really dangerous reason to townread someone. Learned that one literally in my first game on site.

[BROseidon]

Fox McCloud
Waco

Grib

Medical Junkies

MagnaofIllusion
Transcend r Cheetory6
DiamondSentinel
Zulfy r farside22

Firebringer r ConManMick

Gammagooey r keyenpeydee
BROseidon
Spiffeh r camntsuki

??? r kraska77 r Dekes
Cephrir
kdowns

hiplop
SnarkySnowman

Imperium

The bolded are the places I take issue with. Like, you're strong-townreading the entirety of one half of a partisan split within a game - do you really think that all three of them can be town? That none of them have been stoking the flames to get me and camntsuki to go off as a distraction within the game? In addition to that, I'm not sure what Transcend has done to justify a strong townread. To me he's... sort of there?

It's the same with Snarky. I don't know how the fuck to read snarky because he doesn't do anything. Doing nothing isn't alignment indicative for a ton of players.

hiplop I'm slightly townreading because this low-energy idgaf is something I'd associate more out of town-hiplop over scum-hiplop, although tbh I've just never seen him like this before.

[BROseidon]

I'm willing to just roll with "I'm town and thinking about xyz, this unknown person is thinking about xyz /without/ engaging with me, it's probably coming from the same alignment" instead of stewing in paranoia.

Literally my first game on site:

Me: "I'm townread Mara because she's saying a lot of things I agree with"

Nacho: "You probably shouldn't do that"

Mara was scum.

[BROseidon]

Bro, can you throw together a quick updated reads list? Just so they're all in one place.

Conftown:

Me
MJ

Town:

Firebringer
Spiffeh
Grib

Slight Town:

hiplop
Gamma
Ceph

Null:

Transcend
kraska
kdowns
Snarky

Scum:

MoI
DS
Zulfy

My read list is kind of wonky right now because my scum pool is probably 1 scum 2 town, but it's hard for me to saw which one of the three is the scum. There's probably 2 more scum after that - and my confidence would be that I'd expect 1.5 scum in that null group (so 50% chance that my slight town/town pool has me wrong somewhere)

[BROseidon]

Since you pivoted from "no u"ing and started being productive/not-terrible

[BROseidon]

Bro, I'm going to color your reads in on the Waco wagon. Violet > blue > green > gray > red, in order from towny to scummy.

[10]

Waco Kid

~

Fox McCloud

,

Cephrir

,

hiplop

,

Firebringer

,

keyenpeydee

,

kdowns

,

Spiffeh

,

BROseidon

,

DiamondSentinel

,

Transcend

Going off of your reads, you should think kdowns has a very, very high chance of being scum. In a cluster of votes, if you see TOWN TOWN TOWN TOWN TOWN UNKNOWN TOWN TOWN, the unknown(s) should be your first priority.

You haven't really engaged with kdowns at all, or made any attempt to get a read on him by asking others for their opinions of him. What you've done is tell him "no" when he requested we use the full Day to get more data, you claimed you "wouldn't try to stop a kdowns wagon," then later say the kdowns wagon is dumb. That's it.

Imperium attacked Waco for trying to lynch kdowns. Imperium also lightly praised one of kdowns' posts, even though the post itself was pretty bland.

What do you think of kdowns?

You make compelling points. I called the wagon dumb because of it detracting from the DS wagon and who was on it, but kdowns being lynched isn't something I'd lose sleep over help make happen.

[BROseidon]

DS this is why we are mean to you.

[BROseidon]

Also just gonna throw out DS's asymmetric treatment of me be grib on how we included ourselves in our read lists

[BROseidon]

Notice how ds doesn't attack grib for doing what I did.

[BROseidon]

people were joining in but DS acted like he knew my result was bullshit.

This is why I would think DS-scum would mean Spiffeh-town.

[BROseidon]

Also DS's response to the fake guilty was super bullshit and he deserves to be lynched for that alone but w/e nobody seems to care at this point.

[BROseidon]

Why are people talking about maybe lynching Spiffeh.

Spiffeh's not on the table.

[BROseidon]

Spiffeh ur wrong.

[BROseidon]

btw BRO farside's replace out confirms my town read on that slot so never try to lynch Zulfy thanks

This is bad and you should feel bad.

How is what farside did out of range for a scum player? I literally told you to go break your back as scum.

[BROseidon]

You didn't.

farside did.

And you haven't done anything right, either.

[BROseidon]

MoI you can take the bullshit you keep peddling about me and shove it right up your ass.

[BROseidon]

MoI you can take the bullshit you keep peddling about me and shove it right up your ass.

Ah good, Bro is being helpful. Lol
I do totally agree though. MoI, I really dislike your discrediting on a Friendly Neighbour clear this early in the game.

Talk to me my friend! MJ obviously townreads you or they wouldn't confirm to you,and you are both on DS. What makes them scum to you?

It's a handful of things.

His response to FB's fake guilty on Spiffeh is super bullshit - it looks like DS preparing for an inno flip because "omg Spiffeh/camntsuki so town by play." Like, that's never a reason to not trust or discredit a guilty result because people have wrong reads all the time, and not having self-awareness of that is obviously not a realistic thing to expect.

His play in the game has, in general, been disruptive and non-productive. His reads are relatively static, and he doesn't seem to take into consideration new information.

Plus he just says a lot of incredibly dumb shit that I wouldn't expect town to say on questioning fairly fundamental theory points. Usually that sort of shit comes from scum (hiplop should remember Chicagomeet where literally only scum asked me in Deathnote's Deathnote game why I started the game out by claiming hated, as if a hated townie should ever start the game not claiming immediately. DS has been doing shit like that)

[BROseidon]

The first point is not in any way true. He called Firebringer out for the faked guilty right after Firebringer made a second post that showed clearly he didn't have a guilty on Spiffeh. Which when I called Firebringer out on it also. As did Spiffeh. So the first point is junk.

The second point is policy and therefore more junk.

The third point is "playstyle" which Bro made a whiny post about other players discrediting his playstyle so this brimming with irony. Also the "Oh, some F2F game supports this" is a crap addendum that isn't viable meta at all. So yet again more junk.

1) "This thing that's obviously true is not true." Yeah, Spiffeh's response being "wtf this has to be fake" makes sense irrespective of his alignment - town would have known it was fake, and scum's response to a guilty on them is always going to be "lol wtf fake." You didn't whiteknight the fuck out of Spiffeh the way DS did. DS's whiteknighting was super fucking spastic.

2) Not actually policy, but I don't expect you to understand that because you've been pretty terrible this whole game (if you're even town)

3) It's not playstyle, and the f2f point is for hiplop. But I guess the concept of tailoring information to work with specific people is too complicated for you.

[BROseidon]

MJ... Just because Bro is confirming your FN doesn't mean they are town. If they denied it, they would be put in a 1v1 with you that they would die in anyways.

You got the order wrong. It's the other way around.

wait what

wait....

what???????????????

This post is kind of gross.

Snowstorm not getting the semantics is fine b/c he probably hasn't read everything yet. Transcend not getting it is gross, though.