Mini Normal 1829 - Game Over

[Elyse]

VOTE: MichelSableheart

Deciding between "of course my reasoning is forced" and Transcend's page 2 faux-rage was a toughie let me tell you

[Elyse]

No

[Elyse]

How is admitting that the reasoning is forced a scumtell?
I'm openly admitting to voting the biggest wagon because it's the biggest - that's an admission of lack of scum read and bandwagoning for the sake of a wagon. That's just as scummy.
What are you smoking here?

Michel seemed to be talking a big game and the sharp turn where he criticized his own wagon seemed off to me. It's not that he did it - it's that he did it after acting all confident.

[Elyse]

VOTE: MariaR

L-1

[Elyse]

The premature claim seals the deal

Maria is a good enough player to not get flustered like this as town.

[Elyse]

I don't need to see you as town

[Elyse]

It's page 7 two days into the game and you're claiming at L-2 asking what you did wrong. It seems like a calculated scum move to me rather than a genuine town one because of your skill level.

You still haven't explained why you wanted a bandwagon on a townread (assuming it's some bs about wanting to see who would hop on) or more importantly WHY you were townreading both the person you were voting and the person Michel was voting.

[Elyse]

No I won't unvote

I already guessed - to see who would hop onto an easy town wagon.

Now why are you townreading blitzkrieg and shadow

[Elyse]

It also doesn't make sense that Maria is flustered if she thinks the wagon on her is only pressure.

Plus townreading someone because a "scumread" pushes them is terrible on page 80, never mind page 2.

[Elyse]

VOTE: elyse
if uve really seen scummaria before, u would know that scumher is consistent as f
this doesnt resemble her scumplay at all

First off I'm not a huge meta user.

Second I've only played with Maria once.

Third she said she's different in every game.

Fourth I never said this is her scumgame. I'm saying that due to her skill level, her ridiculous AtE looks calculated rather than genuine, making me think she's scum playing it up.

Maria/Transcend is weird weird weird. Don't think they're buddies but the hard townreads make me think one is taking advantage of the other. I think it's Maria trying to get a foothold in the game by securing a townread.

Right now I'm townreading Thor, JJD, and...that's it.

[Elyse]

@elyse
my point is her ate here is not helping her. its clearly backfiing on her
so stop with the "calulated" shit

Since when does calculated mean good?

[Elyse]

didn't want this to happen so early but mariar has given me permission in our pt

MariaR and I are masons.

Do masons usually have daytalk

I was planning on voting Transcend and taking my meta tr back because I think people towntell best under a ton of pressure so if he could towntell it would make it easier for everyone to understand my townread on him like I already have.

Pressure from a mason partner usually works awesomely.

So are you doubting the mason claims or???

That's a pretty gutsy move D1 to tie yourself to your partner. Better off bussing imo.

If both are alive by Day x tho, then we start lynching them.

I fakeclaimed mason as scum with a townie once and won.

I don't believe the claim but it's not worth pursuing today.

@IAI
You say that I'm scummy for voting Maria by saying she's too skilled to get flustered as town without seeing her towngame. Yet in the same breath you say I'm scum for meta reasons without having seen me as town.

My point in making that comment was not to say that Maria is like x as town or y as scum. It was to say that her skill level as a player makes it hard for me to believe that her AtE is genuine.

VOTE: kraska

His posts just suck. When I have time I'll go into further detail.

Nero is town.

[Elyse]

VOTE: MichelSableheart

Deciding between "of course my reasoning is forced" and Transcend's page 2 faux-rage was a toughie let me tell you

How is admitting that the reasoning is forced a scumtell?
I'm openly admitting to voting the biggest wagon because it's the biggest - that's an admission of lack of scum read and bandwagoning for the sake of a wagon. That's just as scummy.
What are you smoking here?

Michel seemed to be talking a big game and the sharp turn where he criticized his own wagon seemed off to me. It's not that he did it - it's that he did it after acting all confident.

Elyse why Kraska over michel?

I think kraska is scummier.

Michel was a good vote in RVS but he's not a major scumread atm.

[Elyse]

What JJ said.

Not to mention that kraska's reasons for voting me were utter shit and a chainsaw defense of Maria.

And instead of responding to points against her, she just says she's a she. (sorry about that btw)

[Elyse]

"Instead of responding to points"
What points elyse? Jar doesn't comment at all on the content of my defenses (like...he even holds me pointing out that his first post wasn't serious against me when there was nth wrong with what I said). His case on me in a nutshell is I've "defended" a bunch of people and that somehow makes me scum

Didn't you say you were going to explain ur sr on me? I'm w8ing for that

I think JJD and Thor covered the crux of what I was going to say pretty well.

[Elyse]

@shadow
yes but tell me why she would think approaching the game the way she did will help her as scum?
and she had chances to town it up but she kept baiting rope
this doesnt look like scum

Like this

This isn't a reason to townread someone. Why wouldn't she "town it up" as town?

[Elyse]

i'd rather we keep him around bc i feel like he can be an easy mislynch

This is a borderline slip lmfao

[Elyse]

i already explained this before...we're just going around in circles at this point
the unprovoked nature of her claim and the way some of her reactions were kinda ott when the situation didnt warrant that makes me think this isnt scum

Why do you think a town mason would act this way?

If I was a mason, I wouldn't fucking panic at the start of D1 when I was at L-2 like Maria did. I know that I have a claim in my back pocket to clear me if necessary. The best thing to do is keep it cool. Her play makes no sense if she's town.

[Elyse]

I honestly almost want to fake claim just to stay alive but I know I shouldn't do that on this site so I'm just gonna claim VT I don't know what I did wrong I guess my town game is awful on this site and my scum game is great that's ironic.

lol

[Elyse]

Also your response to Nero's scumread on you was "bye" and you haven't posted content since.

[Elyse]

Ok I like karnos for town

[Elyse]

I thought she meant it as in my game is wavering in this game and it was pretty perfect in the scum game so she thinks I'm town that logic seems fine to me or did you take it a dif way

You think it's ok to base a meta read on one game of experience?

Especially now that you say you change every game?

ughghdfhsgdsfad stupid mason claim I want to lynch you with fire

[Elyse]

Thor why are you scumreading me

[Elyse]

Also Elyse, town panic all the time even masons so your shade there is p dumb. My stance is basicly a wait and see approach. Yes Maria is scummy and flailing around like a chicken with its head cut off and yes Transcend is scummy but I don't think that's really reason to disbelieve the claim

I could see a town PR still panicking but a mason that is confirmed by another player who says "I wish I could fakeclaim but I'm just gonna claim VT" seems fake as fuck to me.

[Elyse]

Because your vote looked the most opportunistic on a theory Mason, so I want to flip you on the presumption that with a functional lynch wagon onsaid Mason (counting IAI) and mason buddy off, that we are looking at near assured scum on the wagon.

Basing your scumreads on unconfirmed (and probably false) mason claims is ridiculous

I thought you were town this time. Am I wrong?

[Elyse]

Why do you think kraska is town?

I'll second this - I would rather lynch Elyse, but the Kraska push feels valid to me.

Do you think they are on the same team? Both are voting each other. While Elyse threw the L-1 vote at Maria, Kraska came crashing down on Elyse by attacking/voting her. I don't see the two aligned, and Elyse's play has been far scummier in my opinion.

PS - Someone attacked Kraska for having too many town reads/not being aggressive Day 1. I think having too many town reads is not how scum like to play, they like to keep their options open and allow for easy flip flopping later, so I respectfully disagree with that point.

Your tunnel on me sucks.

p-edit

no one's going to support a lynch on a mason d1

[Elyse]

Link me to any game wherein scum fakeclaimed Masons day 1 and I'll be much inclined to move my vote.

Did you miss where I said I fakeclaimed mason as scum with a townie and won?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=32269

[Elyse]

K I'm not keen on getting blacklisted so I'm not mason, but i heavily believe you should not lynch MariaR.

Fucking knew it

[Elyse]

You know im town idiot

I think u'r scum w/ either kraska or Elyse (probably elyse since she seemed pretty sure the mason claim was false) and saw ur plan backfire and now ur purposefully moving the wagon back to maria.

This makes no sense.

If I was scum with Transcend why would I continue doubting him? I'd play along.

Also it was obvious as hell they were fakeclaiming. Scumreading me for not being an idiot is stupid.

[Elyse]

or you know, kraska could just be scum that knows all the players are town.

And gives herself no easy targets to mislynch?

PS - the transcend confession does change things...I still think Elyse or Maria today, and preferably want Elyse. Like I said earlier, I'm a sucker for ATE...

You act like saying someone isn't scummy on page 4 means you can never scumread them again

[Elyse]

MariaR plz no fowl language. But, I refuse to believe you'd actually think that as town, which is prob why you flipped to someone else. good choice.

Believe what

that me softing PR is scummy, because you know I do it regardless of my role many times on EM. Also, I thought I was scummy, why am I not in your scum pool

You don't soft pr very much unless you really are pr I rarely see you do it as blue and you are scummy for the gamit but not on the tier of Sable/Elyse maybe I'm wrong on you could be.

Why are you scumreading me again?

[Elyse]

As town I think she's pretty dumb.

I was right - they weren't masons

[Elyse]

I've looked at Kraska, and must admit there is some merit in that wagon. Kraska, could you explain where your initial townread on Maria came from? It went against the feeling of all other players at the time, so what did you see that they didn't?

Thor, what makes you say that Elyse's vote was the most opportunistic on the wagon? If I had to point out an opportunistic vote, I would look at Karnos. The reason he gave for joining the wagon was Maria's refusal to explain. I have a hard time thinking of a reason why scum would be more likely to refuse to explain then town, which makes me feel he might just have been looking for an excuse to join the wagon. Elyse's "I don't think Maria would get that flustered as town" seems far more natural to me.

Gerry, what did you accomplish with that gambit?

Note to all EM players: gambiting is a terrible idea on a site that focusses on finding scum through dayplay. If you want to be able to find the lying scum through day discussion, you have to be able to rely on what your fellow town players are saying. Lying as town makes all reads unreliable, while giving scum the perfect cover to hide behind. That's why Lynch All Lyars is a thing here. Benefit of lying for town is non-existent, benefit for scum is far too great to allow liars to live.

Vote: Transcend

Town Transcend willing to lie for unknown maria seems far less likely then scum Transcend willing to lie to solidify her townread of him.

and just like that Michel moves to the town pile

[Elyse]

Now that you know the mason claim is fake why are people not voting me nothing has seemingly changed so I want to know what happened?

You act as though faking a mason claim means nothing changed

[Elyse]

quick Elyse ATE it up so IAI votes kraska!

Lol

I actually AtE far more often as scum

[Elyse]

VOTE: Transcend

@Maria
Do you think it's possible that Transcend is taking advantage of your experience with him and fakeclaiming masons to get you on his side? I've seen him say that you're obvtown (lol) but aside from the fake mason claim, you haven't explained why you're townreading him. And if the mason claim is the only reason, you need to take a step back and see the scum motivation in doing what he did. Read the game that I linked.

I don't think Maria/Transcend are both town and think it's far more likely Transcend is scum. Fakeclaiming mason to save a townread that wasn't even the definitive lynch of the day does not seem like a townie thing to do. Makes much more sense for scumTranscend to see an opening to get a pocket townread from Maria. And if he knows she is town, he probably expected her to flip first of the two. And even when she didn't flip mason, he would look good because she was still town. He might get called stupid and antitown for fakeclaiming, but not necessarily scummy. I literally did the same exact thing for the same exact reasons and sailed through the rest of the game.

[Elyse]

If you're actually town then you're an idiot for fakeclaiming mason

I don't think you're an idiot though

Hence my vote

[Elyse]

She knows I'm town and doesn't need me to pocket her. In fact, if anyone was being pocketed, it was me. Which i accepted with open arms.

I'll get back to you about this after Maria responds to me

[Elyse]

Keep reading and respond to 623

[Elyse]

Ok so aside from his "tone", you're townreading him for not hammering you?

That's awful. You think he would risk lynching a townie so early on in the day? Especially when he apparently knows your meta and you could throw him under the bus in twilight.

[Elyse]

Something is off with the Transcend Maria dynamic. I feel one of them is mafia, but I'm not really sure which right now.

What feels off it'd be nice to get an outside look on it even if I think me and him are both town is it the fact we hard tr each other or you're jealous of our mad skillz

Punctuation is an important part of the english language.

[Elyse]

Yeah, my specific ask was for scum to fakeclaim with scum, though I'll agree you could have read it differently, but that's what you were selling, and that's what I was suggesting never happens.

I was never selling that Maria and Transcend were scumbuddies who claimed masons together

[Elyse]

I'd vote transcend now if it was another player in the slot posting like he is, but... maybe this is just town transcend acting like transcend always acts, not voting him yet.

Maybe we should just lynch transcend, because he is going to be lynchbait in lylo if he lives that long, and I don't scum killing him.

Eeeeeek

This pings my scumdar a lot. Treating scumreads as town is a big no no

[Elyse]

I forget but ik I had a good reason I'll tell you when I remember

Hey Maria! Did you remember why you were scumreading me?

[Elyse]

I guess you can call it an opportunistic vote on my part I do think Karnos last few lines are trash but I want to go on w/e bw out of Elyse/Karnos I think I can get more momentum on I think both are scum and votes that need to happen I pref this happens but if Elyse get's anywhere towards l-3 or L-2 I'll vote it without a second thought and nothing is going to stop me

This is also awful and opportunistic af

[Elyse]

hey look Elyse and me agree on something for once! That last line is what made me vote him wanna join me?

No

[Elyse]

I think you just used the "You're way to good to do this as town!" As a weak reason to vote me when you haven't even seen my town game so I don't know how you can even come to that conclusion

Here's my line of thinking:

I was impressed with your gameplay in our last game and consider you a good player from that.

You had a random meltdown for no reason in this game and since I thought you were a good player, I thought you were AtEing on purpose.

Hence my scumread on you.

Unless you want to argue that you're shitty as town? Idk I've never seen such changes in skill level between alignments.

[Elyse]

Devil dog

[Elyse]

Yodel

[Elyse]

***yskd

*********yodle

[Elyse]

Nvm I was right the first time

[Elyse]

Will get to this in the morning.

You betters

Legit bib can't read RB

[Elyse]

***pedit I can't read rn

[Elyse]

Mhm

[Elyse]

Elyse was either drunk or crumbed not sure which

Drunk

sorry about that

[Elyse]

what did I do o-o

Sick of this shit

This isn't the Maria I know wailing "what did I dooooooo" over and over

[Elyse]

hoookay
maria is town because...i think she's perfectly capable of consistent play. especially with jarjar constantly pointing out inconsistencies in her posts, i think she would have tweaked her play if she were scum. that she didnt and continues to be erratic, makes me think town. can u guys please not reduce my read on her to just "meta"?

I think at this point she's too deep and has to keep the histrionics up

[Elyse]

compare jar and elyse's approaches to maria
elyse's posts at maria seem exploitative
feels like she's more concerned with looking town for the push rather than genuinely sorting her
her posts are mostly "u did blabla and yadayada and according to wikitells that makes u scum"

What the fuck?

Where did I use wiki tells at all?

You're just bullshitting

[Elyse]

I would lynch Kraska, Maria, or Elyse. I would happily help policy Shadow.

Why not transcend

[Elyse]

lol
you used stereotypical scumtells against her is what i mean

Really where

[Elyse]

Also, in the case Transcend hasn't mentioned it yet, I'm negative utility (Ascetic to be specific). I'm still kind of new to the site but I'm under the impression it's correct town play to claim any NU as soon as possible.

Transcend did not claim this because he is not town

[Elyse]

Maria I hope you know that if you actually are town then I'm really disappointed

[Elyse]

Elyse and Michel, is the entire scumread of Transcend based around the fact people felt that his mason fakeclaim was an icky gambit to butter up Maria?

Yes

As far as Maria scum goes, I would lynch her in a heartbeat if you flipped town. Her play has been terrible and scummy but I'm mostly putting her on ignore because if you flip scum then she's very likely town.

[Elyse]

What are you even saying

[Elyse]

Hey giga

Instead of asking other people for their thoughts on me, you should try explaining your scumread on me.

It's kind of expected when you're only scumreading one person who just so happens to be the biggest counterwagon to your lynch.

@JJD
The ascetic claim is scummy to me. Transcend didn't claim it and then giga's claim seemed more of a "just in case" claim if someone got a no result on him or something. If giga truly believes that claiming ascetic is protown, then I feel as though he would do it as either alignment. It's scummy to me only because Transcend didn't claim it.

Why do you think it's more likely to come from town?

Also the scumreads on me are awful and it's embarrassing if I actually get lynched. What are even the reasons for scumreading me? My vote on Maria was "opportunistic" when karnos' was worse? IAI's "tell" that he won't reveal? Maria deciding that I have to go even though "2 of my posts were scummy" just because I'm a counterwagon to giga?

Idk what happened but the Transcend slot is scum. Like Michel is arguing, it makes so much more sense to fakeclaim mason as scum than town.

[Elyse]

This is why I'm having so much conflict between you/giga in my head.

I am voting my top scumread - giga. You are not voting your top scumread. Yet you ask me to start another wagon. My strongest scumread is one of the leading wagons so no I'm not starting another one. You on the other hand have all of the reason in the world to start one and you don't.

It's actually jarring how different your play has been from the previous game. I know that's your intention but I can't tell what's genuine and what's not.

[Elyse]

Élysé u willing to vote shadow?

Yeah

but giga is scum because as I've said multiple times, it makes much more sense for him to fakeclaim masons as scum. I've done it before in the same situation. Maybe that's why I scumread him so strongly.

I'm not going to address much of giga's wall. As Michel already said, he just combed through my ISO and twisted anything he could into something scummy. If I had the time/desire, I could do the same thing for him.

I will say that me believing the claim was fake and still not wanting to lynch them is not a contradiction. No matter how bullshit I think the claim is, there's a very small chance I'm wrong and I would never lynch a mason claim D1, especially when it's confirmed by a mason partner. Mason claims resolve themselves in time.

However they admitted to it being fake so I want giga's head on a platter.

[Elyse]

Elyse, you don't get to ask me to explain my read on you and then accuse me of trying to paint you in a bad light because it's a scumread.

There's a difference between explaining a scumread and doing what you did.

[Elyse]

No.

I'm slightly scumreading karnos but I don't feel good hopping on a wagon with you or Shadow step.

So go ahead and vote me

[Elyse]

I would vote kraska or shadow

[Elyse]

I would vote kraska or shadow

And you're not voting either of us because...?

why would I vote either when giga is at L-3 and I'm scumreading him the most

like you're just making shit up to make me look bad

vote:Elyse

We have a day and change left, go ahead and claim.

ANY HAMMERS BEFORE INTENT AND A FULL CLAIM WILL BE TREATED AS A SCUM CLAIM.

VT

Honestly just lynch me

This game sucks

[Elyse]

VOTE: Shadow step

[Elyse]

VOTE: Shadow step

Does this vote mean you think me and Giga are both town
UNVOTE: god what the f am I doing

No. Idk giga's latest posts have seemed town but if he is town I'd have to reanalyze the situation

but vote shadow

[Elyse]

VOTE: gerryoat

[Elyse]

Fine with this or shadow.

I found kraska's unvote of me very town actually

[Elyse]

Sorry I've had a super busy week and didn't even get to read the end of yesterday. Catching up soon.

[Elyse]

I'm good with a Shadow or Blitz lynch.

Blitz has done nothing townie at all. It's just a scumslot, there's nothing else to it.

Shadow saying that he was playing lynchbaity so he could get results seems like BS to me because he's a vanilla cop. Like maybe I could see that if he was an actual good role, but vanilla cop sucks. It doesn't add up. The check on me is also very convenient because if he's scum, he knows I'm telling the truth and doesn't have to worry about calling a PR vanilla.

[Elyse]

Well the tracker is dead

And you were under pressure to claim

[Elyse]

VOTE: Blitz

L-1

[Elyse]

I don't see what Blitz has done to be at L-1 that wagon formed very fast. Right now I'd say Giga and Elyse are scum.

I'm coming for you next

[Elyse]

The fact that Blitz hasn't said who she protected yet makes me confident that she's scum.

And gerry's 1689 is terrible. "I'm not hammering Blitz cause she's townish" Are you kidding me?

Blitz/gerry/{karnos, Thor, Shadow} is the team.

[Elyse]

The fact that Blitz hasn't said who she protected yet makes me confident that she's scum.

And gerry's 1689 is terrible. "I'm not hammering Blitz cause she's townish" Are you kidding me?

Blitz/gerry/{karnos, Thor, Shadow} is the team.

Why should I? Outing who I protected just gives scum information about who I protect.

Your attack on Gerry is also bad. You're professing a scumread solely based on him not doing what you want.

The customary thing to do when claiming a PR after night 1 is to claim your actions as well. You not doing that makes it seem like more of a fakeclaim.

And no, I'm not scumreading gerry for not doing what I want. When there is a wagon at L-1 on a doctor stalled out, you need to give more insight than "She's townish".

Nice defense of him though. I'll make sure he goes after you.

[Elyse]

Ok I'm not even going to respond to you after this if your retort is "yeah you are" after I explained why I'm not.

And scum are more likely to withhold actions cause it means fewer lies and potential screw ups. For example if you targeted a PGO we would know you're lying.

[Elyse]

Not to mention that claiming who you protected won't do shit besides stir up WIFOM

[Elyse]

Blitz is scum stop getting distracted.

Her "ideas" are complete nonsense and she's making them up as she goes along to try to justify her ridiculous play. Like if she was actually town and thought this was role madness with one token VT, she would notice that I claimed VT (and was allegedly confirmed by shadow) and Maria flipped VT. So right there it would have to be a me/shadow scumteam or else it isn't role madness.

[Elyse]

JJD is so town it hurts

[Elyse]

agree

@Michel
I point out "scumslips" as scum all the time.

Transcend was scummy as fuck. I agree. Titus pointed that out. It was good reasoning. Doesn't mean she's town though. It does make me question my read a small bit, but her ridiculous assumptions of a vig and role madness with a flipped VT and a claimed/verified VT just don't make any sense coming from a townie who's truly thinking about the game.

[Elyse]

Titus why are you ignoring the fact that Maria already flipped VT and Shadow verified my VT claim?

[Elyse]

VOTE: shadow

This was JarJar's first post of Day 2 so yeah it looks like he checked Shadow.

Do we really think two investigative roles is likely? I could see scum having a doc, thinking there's a gunsmith, and shadow claiming vanilla cop because it's an easily faked role and shows up guilty.

[Elyse]

Good with lynching karnos today

[Elyse]

I actually think it's karnos/Thor now

[Elyse]

I think we should massclaim tomorrow and let the vig shoot again. Don't think there's an SK

[Elyse]

I feel comfortable with my scumpool of {karnos, Thor, shadow} and would prefer the vig to be able to get another shot off

[Elyse]

Yeah but if they have a roleblocker then they could block it

[Elyse]

Idk I feel like if the consensus is lynching karnos no matter what then there's no point to massclaiming today

[Elyse]

Nah, we should massclaim.
It will help coordinate stuff at night and lock scum into claims.

Coordinate what exactly? Who the vig is going to shoot? I don't think that's a good idea. And do you think scum is going to claim a PR with this many out in the open already? All massclaim will do is expose the vig and everyone else will claim VT. Scum won't be locked into anything.

Especially if we are lynching Karnos with a Vanilla cop claim.
I mean seriously now.

Karnos claimed VT?

What are you suggesting in implying it's a not good idea?

If the end result of today is a karnos lynch no matter what, I don't see the problem with allowing the vig to be anonymous another night.
You're being about as empty as Karnos, quite frankly - what reads do you even have? I couldn't describe them. Give me a couple of the ones you feel strongly about.[/quote]
I've already said that I think you, karnos, and Shadow are my scumreads. Outside chance of Michel.

[Elyse]

Why would you be happy with scum claiming VT? That just means all massclaim did was out the vig.

You said "especially if we are lynching karnos with a vanilla cop claim" and I said "he claimed VT?" as refutation of your statement.

I also think it's scummy af for you to just start massclaim when there's opposition to it.

[Elyse]

vote:Thor

He's pretending to be a derp.

Yeah I'm fine with lynching Thor today too

[Elyse]

Ok chill you don't have to be so patronizing.

I thought you were saying karnos claimed vanilla cop. That's how your sentence was structured.

I'm not wasting time building a case on you. It's gut, PoE, the fact you've been utterly useless yet acting like you haven't been, proposing a massclaim that will have no effect except outing the vig and "directing the vanilla cop" which we can do anyway since we know who it is, calling me scum and not explaining why, etc.

Like I don't know if you've realized but there's a strong town bloc and you're not in it. It's just how it goes sometimes.

[Elyse]

VOTE: Shadow

Why aren't more people voting him?

[Elyse]

What else is there to say?

Shadow nearly has a guilty on him. karnos or Thor is probably last scum.

[Elyse]

Nearly guilty?
You crazy or what?
It was mechanically impossible for me to do the kill last night ffs.

So?

Your buddy could have done it.

@Nero
tbh I skimmed a lot once I saw you claimed vig who shot shadow N1. I'll have more time to read tomorrow.

[Elyse]

If I was scum, we would know that there is either an SK/vig in the game. My "buddy" would be protecting me.

And scum can't kill and perform an action on the same night because...?

[Elyse]

If I was scum, we would know that there is either an SK/vig in the game. My "buddy" would be protecting me.

And scum can't kill and perform an action on the same night because...?

Setup Info Rule #6. Can't do an action and kill at the same time.

That's what's stumping me about scum!Shadow.

Well he could've just lied about kraska. Worst case scenario he outs the vig

[Elyse]

Wtf why was Thor killed I was going to vote him today

VOTE: karnos

[Elyse]

That was obviously an indirect kill

I'm an idiot

Also wtf I'm not scum. Why is this suddenly a thing? I wanted Titus and shadow both dead.

If it's not karnos it's giga or Michel in that order.

[Elyse]

How was I supposed to know that massclaim would put Nero's guilty? Even if I was scum I wouldn't know that. Why couldn't he just not have shot or there not be a vig?

I still think I was right with the information I had. Now it makes sense why Thor wanted it - he was a bodyguard who could protect the vig. But from my PoV it would only out the vig, and I thought any guilty would have been out in the open already.

Plus if you look back I was like the only one to stick with the guilty the entire time. If I was scum hesitant about bussing shadow, why wouldn't I feed into people's paranoia that shadow was town?

Idk I'm just confused that I was widely townread and now I'm considered to be on the same level as fucking karnos. Really?

[Elyse]

Meh that's true.

But it's mostly due to me being busy irl. But ok that's fair

[Elyse]

I don't think it's obvious who's getting NK'd...

I'd prefer a no lynch

[Elyse]

kraska if Giga hammers I'm holding you personally responsible

We should no lynch

[Elyse]

Ok well my giga paranoia is gone.

VOTE: MichelSableheart

That was a ballsy move for kraska-scum - confirming a town player like that.

Why are people townreading Michel again?

[Elyse]

This basically a scum win

kraska and Michel are voting me

giga has been paranoid of me all game

If you're not going to change your mind there's no point in dragging it out. I don't think I've played a great game. I got busy irl and never got into it much. Sucks that town has to lose because of it

[Elyse]

Here sorry

[Elyse]

Fair enough

[Elyse]

?

[Elyse]

Oh shit the deadline is coming up. I thought giga was just giving me one arbitrarily.

I promise content tonight I'm sorry

[Elyse]

Ok so both Michel and kraska are all "ughhh idk I feel like I could be wrong about you!!!" but kraska's is to Giga and Michel's is about kraska. So it's pretty ballsy and perhaps dumb for kraska to be willing to put the game on the line if she was unsure of Giga. Like would she really do that if she was town who didn't know Giga's alignment for sure? I wouldn't.

I initially thought that this was a townie move from kraska, but I don't think a Giga lynch was ever really happening. So scratch that.

I was also suspecting Michel over kraska because I was listening to Nero.

will go into that when i have time, i think he's my best townread :s

Can you go into this if you have time?

Again I'm really sorry I was demotivated/busy/focusing on other games/didn't realize the deadline was approaching.

I do think that we shouldn't rush though because we can still no lynch. We just won't have Giga's input which will suck. But it's an option if we run out of time.

You know
Maybe we should start by going through the blitz iso first

Omg this buddying

"we"

Ok

Basically I suck. I don't really know who it is. It could be kraska or Michel but I don't have many reasons at all. Like there's nothing that stands out to me in the slightest.

I feel shitty but like idk what to do :/

[Elyse]

Ok that makes me feel better

VOTE: Michel if I'm not already

Always trust Nero!!!

Why I'm town - really the only reason I can give is that I love playing as scum and am generally good at it. When I'm town, I often become disinterested in the game if I'm not doing well and hope I'm killed. If I'm fucking up as scum I usually try that much harder.

But that's unreliable self meta

[Elyse]

I'm good with a Shadow or Blitz lynch.

Blitz has done nothing townie at all. It's just a scumslot, there's nothing else to it.

Shadow saying that he was playing lynchbaity so he could get results seems like BS to me because he's a vanilla cop. Like maybe I could see that if he was an actual good role, but vanilla cop sucks. It doesn't add up. The check on me is also very convenient because if he's scum, he knows I'm telling the truth and doesn't have to worry about calling a PR vanilla.

If you look through my ISO I didn't really interact with scum at all (besides Michel, but you don't know that). Until this post. I wouldn't narrow down my lynch choices for the day to my two scumbuddies. It's just not reasonable.

[Elyse]

Also if Titus was my scumbuddy I'd totally be more invested in this game. I've always wanted to be scum with her.

[Elyse]

My reaction to mhsmith dying was just stupidity lol.

I also don't think that if I was set up to be the "deep townie", Shadow would fake a result on me. Seems unnecessary to potentially join us together like that.

[Elyse]

That aggressive tone shift though...

Anyway my point was that if I was scum being setup to go deep then Shadow WOULDN'T still be alive. So it's more risk than reward

[Elyse]

The risk that people would say Shadow could fake a result on his buddy because I would back up what he said. I mean this point may be moot because I had already claimed VT at the time, but Shadow WAS a vanilla cop. I doubt he actually checked me since he knew I was town and thus telling the truth (though you can never tell anymore). But it seems like an unnecessary risk to lie about his check and say he checked me (if I'm his buddy) rather than reveal his actual check. The only way this would make sense is to hide a PR find from town, but if scum have a doc then they probably assumed there wasn't another protective role out there. Even though there was lol