Newbie 1744 - Game Over

[FrankJaeger]

Hi all!

I'll be vla today to a degree. Let's kill each other all civilized like.

Sure. You first.
VOTE: Spy

[FrankJaeger]

FrankJeager, have you ever played Mafia before?

Copper, why have you made your scumminess so clear for all to see?

I've played the mobile app, and some forum games a couple of years ago. What about you?

I'de like to see coppers response to this. Im just as interested what happens after that.

[FrankJaeger]

...interested *to see* what happens...

[FrankJaeger]

VOTE: SpyreX

I was looking forward to playing with Thor you imposter.

Didnt see this until after I voted. A little extra vexation wouldnt do any harm, even during these budding stages of the game.

[FrankJaeger]

@frank, what actual vexation do you think that vote adds?

That depends on you, doesn't it?

[FrankJaeger]

Hello.

Jason and Frank, what's your reasoning for voting SpyreX? I don't think he had said anything but 'hello' when you voted him.

Didn't have any real discernment in the vote.

[FrankJaeger]

I'm just asking questions at this point. I've got something to say from this page, but not yet.

The others are 'justified' as well as Jasons was. Franks is a bit different yes

'justified' is a bit generous,though I get your sentiment. You allude to my vote as being different. Any real reason, aside from semantics?

[FrankJaeger]

I hate playing with VI's or people that pretend to be, I suspect you pulled that statement out of your ass because

you

would not have delayed.

It's impossible for me to use a question that I asked

before

you followed up to avoid answering, unfortunately I haven't invented time travel yet.

Newbies posting without knowing about RVS may be revealing because it's a situation where the town and scum win-cons lead to different incentives on how to react, namely newbie townies are more likely to want to understand what is going on.

My reply was tied to the above because I was going to explain what RVS is to Gideon by linking the wiki page (hello IC).

This post caught my attention. First thing, the language got spicy (I like it, but kind of sudden right?).
The VI banter is odd. This is a newbie game, so wouldn't he be an IV? Ignorant villager? Meh anyway, I'm not sure if Copper actually believes what he's saying.

BTW I agree with everything else copper is saying here

[FrankJaeger]

The fact that you think hiding RVS from the new players is actually a good thing is just terrible

Can you show me where Copper did this?

[FrankJaeger]

It's all good I've got good feelings about you mr Gideon.

I agree on this, but could you elaborate on why you feel the way you do?

[FrankJaeger]

Nice...

This game is boring so far. I propose the following strategy:

Let's lynch Frank and see if he turns scum. If he does we lynch humansequencer, and we go home.
Otherwise on day two we lynch Gideon who is overly-defending Spy. If that doesn't work, then I propose we lynch Jason for being an idiot on day 3.

We can also adapt the strategy along the way!

Who is with me?

Surprise! Not I!

Sure, I might be a little biased about your Day 1 lynch pick. BUT my real reason is your plan is perplexing/hectic.
I've read scum like to create confusion, so how about a plan that's a little easier to follow?

Just my two cents.

Why are you still voting for spy?

Speaking of that, UNVOTE: Spy

[FrankJaeger]

Let me rephrase. What about that vote would concern me at all? Even if i was scum, what about a second page 1 vote would be vexing

Again, it depends on you.

Generally

a townie wouldn't want a vote on them. They would want a vote on the real scum. I guess a scum would think the same... Either way its annoying right? Scum could potentially make a mistake with any sort of pressure.

Probably a long shot, but do you see a problem with it?

[FrankJaeger]

Aww you guys think I'm posting walls? *blush*

Dont give me so much credit.

[FrankJaeger]

Frank if you could shoot someone right now, who and why

You first. Pinky promise Ill answer after

[FrankJaeger]

I dont have a problem with it. It should be very clear the probing is just that.

I'll say that generally speaking your premise can be correct much later. This early? Very doubtful

Right, but isn't there a rule or something about not letting the subject know he's being tested? Like it could change their reaction. I don't like coming out and saying "reaction test", no matter how obvious it is.

[FrankJaeger]

Toto, you over looked my question.


Ive got the week off guys so Ill be pretty active here, lets have some fun.

[FrankJaeger]

There's few hard and fast rules. Personally i hate reaction tests, mostly because it inevitably involved doing something scummy to see something.

Id shoot jason right in his face as of right now

Couldn't you declare that by definition anything a townie does regarding scum hunting cant be scummy? Am I looking at this too literally? Maybe to philosophically? In any case that's not important here.

Jason you say? Right in the face? Brutal. Why Jason?

You can surmise who my shot would be.With just what I have to work with so far, it would be toto.

[FrankJaeger]

Surprise! Not I!

Sure, I might be a little biased about your Day 1 lynch pick. BUT my real reason is your plan is perplexing/hectic.
I've read scum like to create confusion, so how about a plan that's a little easier to follow?

Just my two cents.

Why are you still voting for spy?

I don't have a reason to move my vote yet, and don't see a point to unvoting.

What's so complex about my plan? It has a day by day guide!

I understand your unwillingness to follow it, though. What do you suggest we do instead?

What are you waiting on?

The most confusing aspect is you having a plan that isn't lateral with your actions.

I suggest that we don't plan our votes 3 days out. This hands scum a buffet ticket.

I get the feeling you aren't that serious though. Like when you asked what a VI was. I'm leaning that this is coming from a scummy base. Also you asking about the VC and you not sure if someone was about to get lynched seems very contrived. Maybe not?

Are you scum?

[FrankJaeger]

Nope, wall and insults I could not follow were generated by copper and jason respectively. That's why I wanted to lynch Jason on day 3 for good measure.

Sorry for the wrong accusation.

Why would you lynch frank first?

Double suspicious of him because of the wall.

Help me understand this.

[FrankJaeger]

haha if you say so.

VOTE: toto

[FrankJaeger]

On a side note I just noticed Jason isn't new so I'm not so confused by Coppers VI accusation. (not saying I agree)

[FrankJaeger]

The fact that you think hiding RVS from the new players is actually a good thing is just terrible

Can you show me where Copper did this?

Newbies posting without knowing about RVS may be revealing because it's a situation where the town and scum win-cons lead to different incentives on how to react, namely newbie townies are more likely to want to understand what is going on.

Seems like he is just taking advantage of a situation, instead of actively masking something. Not trying to defend him, I just want to know your thinking.

[FrankJaeger]

Also, if anybody could teach me multiquoting, quoting across pages, and multiquoting across pages, I would be forever grateful.

Ive been using the little "Q+" link for every post i want to quote at that time (you have to do it in the order you want the quotes to appear). On your last quote, just hit the icon to the left of the Q+. Also, hitting the ISO link on a post takes you to a page displaying every post for that player in the current thread.

[FrankJaeger]

@Toto/HS/Frank
You seem to be trying to solve the game as quickly as possible (which is something that points more to newbie town rather than newbie scum), but you risk over-posting and helping scum hide behind your mass of content, try to condense your thoughts if possible.

Cant agree with you here. But for the sake of aesthetics, I will package things a little smaller. Get it? A little smaller? Lol

Cop, I saw your post about associations, but if Tot flips scum, this really looks like coaching. On the other hand I am not so arrogant that I dont see your point here.

Can 2 IC's or and IC and SE both be scum, while every newbie is townie?

[FrankJaeger]

A lynch at this point is very premature

Copper, I agree to an extent.

However

Tots play has been very scummy I have to say. I could give 2 or 3 reasons why him saying he got mixed up with the players doesnt make a shred of sense. Like, i can understand Humans mix up, but Tots doesnt seem like an accident. More like "oh fuck, I got called out after failing to make someone look scummy and now I gotta squirm out of it"

[FrankJaeger]

I dont like tots rhetoric that the wagon on him is all part of his plan. His plans change like wow.
In any case I would like to see more from other players.

[FrankJaeger]

Toto you can hardly call what human did a scum slip. Town or scum could make that mistake.

[FrankJaeger]

I feel like I could be tunneling. Im confident in my vote, but Im going to go back and reread some exchanges

[FrankJaeger]

Ive got a favor to ask. Can someone give a small summary of why Copper should be todays lynch? Ide like to hear from everyone on the wagon if possible. My reads are still foggy. I have a confident town read, and my vote is still where it is for a reason. Thats it.

I see some more content has been posted, and Im going to digest it tonight.

[FrankJaeger]

Towncop* my mistake

[FrankJaeger]

Im here. Posting my thoughts tonight

[FrankJaeger]

Hey guys sorry about being in and out. this hurricane is making things messy around here. Ill have about 2hours to post in a bit and i will give opinion on current state of game

[FrankJaeger]

Power back on. Still crazy but I can keep up with game now

[FrankJaeger]

I'm here. For good now. I'm okay. Moderate yard damage.

Alot to interpret here. I've skimmed over things a bit, and I'm going to hash over the details to get a better sense of things. Anything I should speak on, aside from the obvious?

Few reads so far. Still dont like Tot. Never have.

I dont like the wagon being L- 1 right now. Could a couple of you give us a little more time? It's giving me anxiety.

Apparently Chaos will get my attention first. (After VCA)

Although, Im eager to dive into Town Cop's ISO. I dont have a feel about him yet, but his associations will be the most telling to me at this point in the game.

Is it terrible I dont have a strong town read?

Going to stick around for an hour or two. Will be catching up for the most part.

[FrankJaeger]

It's not L-1.

Basically read through game twice. Gotta get some sleep. These are initial questions and feelings. Cleaner thoughts later.

Scum Lottery Picks!

(CT,Chaos)
(CT,Spy)
(Chaos,Tot)
maybe even (CT,Tot)


I like Coppers and Humans content, but their votes bother me. I'm too tired check, but I think Copper put two players to L-1
Copper and Human have been on

all 5

major wagons.
Is it indicative of anything?
I don't see both of them being scum, but this stat is sending up a red flag.

Chaos has been on every wagon but CT's (and his own). Is this even more significant? I think it is. Him voting human is weird if he is scum.Though, he could be avoiding easier targets to create potential associations. Know what I mean?

Spy's D1 was... How would you describe it? Bland? Promises. Empty statements akin to "Do you notice what I notice", "Ill share later". I did see one decent follow up. Felt like he chimed in at the wrong times. IDK about spy. But
Next part is heavy. If both scums didn't vote alike, Spy is

100 percent

scum.
I don't like his tempo today. He hasn't directly done anything I can call scummy though.

If tot is scum I don't believe he could work 2 more town lynches alone. I'm aiming for larger game unless he does something obv. scummy.

I think we have a good chance of hitting scum with CT/Chaos today. I just feel a CT lynch is the better way to go.

Again, I'm tired and apologize if any numbers are wrong.

More later.

[FrankJaeger]

If tot is scum I don't believe he could work 2 more town lynches alone. I'm aiming for larger game unless he does something obv. scummy.

Could you clarify this?

Toto could be scum. I dont think he can win the game alone so I am fine with going after bigger p.o.i

[FrankJaeger]

Though, he could be avoiding easier targets to create potential associations. Know what I mean?

Please do explain.

Im stumped by his vote on human. If he is scum there are easier targets to go after.

Chaos could be avoiding bad players so town can misinterperet ba mislynch them later

Im not seeing a human/chaos team. Not a show to create distance. Maybe he wants it to look that way?

Was he just looking for town cred?

Brainstorming.

[FrankJaeger]

@Frank
I doesn't make much sense to me though. If you're convinced Toto is scum (which you seem to strongly be given you haven't changed that early read after a catching up with a ton of content) and are uncertain or at least less sure about the rest of us, isn't he the natural choice?

Chess, not checkers.

My problem is I cant gauge toto's newness. So i just have to assume he is what he says.

So if he's noobtown im making the right choice by backing off.

If he's noobscum I'de rather town deal with him alone, compared to his partner alone.

[FrankJaeger]

I am ashamed of my spelling. Im riding in a car on my phone.

[FrankJaeger]

CT- I am having trouble developing good town reads I admit. You have the highest chance of being scum right now, based on association and voting patterns.

I can talk gooder tonite when on pc

[FrankJaeger]

@Frank
You should read Toto is his other games on the site, it should help inform your decision greatly.

Meta is like body language. Its not a good representation if the person is aware its being inspected.
I could try to formulate some tendencies that might be helpful in spotty situations. Not worth the time/effort in my book.

I would need more than a months sample of games anyway.

[FrankJaeger]

My mistake about the bad math copper. It was very late at night

[FrankJaeger]

Spy, who is the other scum?
If chaos isn't scum who are your picks?

VOTE: TownCop

[FrankJaeger]

Chaos,
I cant call anyone town at this point.

Dont have anything to add to toto.

[FrankJaeger]

I was really trying to see how much would change and its not.much. copper would bother me a bit more on a scum.flip here but scum.has no reason to.come.out swinging with all the prs dead.

So if its scum here then... tc and frank probably? Would be my remainders.

Town here is a whole different mess. Then its really buckle down because im very, very doubtful id eat a bullet.

I'm betting heavy on this because otherwise back to the drawring board

But what if he flips green.

[FrankJaeger]

Stopping in, my daughters bday weekend so short on time.
CT im voting you because of your D1 voting patterns, and your flip has 2 things going for town.
1. Youre probably scum, and
2. your slot is the most informative flip, from my perspective.

I've made my read and vote,very transparent.

[FrankJaeger]

Do you guys think there was one or 2 scum on D1 lynch wagon?
If 2 TC is best pick.
If you think it was split SPY IS 100 PERCENT SCUM.

Also, ask what are the odds of 1 experienced player and one newb being together versus 2noob or 2Exp.

Then look at the wagon patters.

Throw all of this together and you should have a good 3 player pool of who scum probably are.

[FrankJaeger]

Im giving spy the benefit of the doubt but damnit what has spy actually done to get off without scrutiny? Not voting a mislynch isnt out of a scums tool box. I'de think scum would split vote more than not. He seems to...just...be...here...I...guess.

[FrankJaeger]

Im giving spy the benefit of the doubt but damnit what has spy actually done to get off without scrutiny? Not voting a mislynch isnt out of a scums tool box. I'de think scum would split vote more than not. He seems to...just...be...here...I...guess.

And exactly what is he getting off?

You seem to be reusing and "piggybacking" off some of my points about Spyre, except extending them to unrealistic lengths. I said there's the possibility that Spyre's not town, and that's true, but then you decide to explain that that somehow the possibility that he's not town makes him scum (even though he was

off

the wagon)??

I just woke up.

Im not piggy backing anything. Check my initial catch up post.

I cant tell what you are trying to say about spyre here but I think he has been givin way too much credit for his D1 vote.

[FrankJaeger]

That's all speculation.

The odds of scum being 2 newbies are higher because there are more newbies in a given game, not much else to infer and it doesn't mean anything compared to actually reading players.

Spyre's Gideon defense is why he is more likely town and definitely not a good D2 lynch, if we lynch Chaos and he flips town and if Spyre survives then it's back to the drawing board.

The latest posts makes me think it's just Frank and Chaos after all.

Jesus.
I DONT WANT TO LYNCH SPY TODAY. Just to be clear so lets not frame the convo that way.

I know there is a higher chance of both scum being noob.

TC is the best vote right now. Chaos is second. Lynch either and it will make D3 alot easier.

What is there more to say about Chaos? No, im not going to start tunneling him at this point like half the town. Im going to keep playing the game and looking at possibilities. I am fine with a Chaos lynch today.

[FrankJaeger]

^Edit: i know there is a higher chance of both scum being noob than two ICs. Im thinking its 1 and 1

[FrankJaeger]

Do you guys think there was one or 2 scum on D1 lynch wagon?
If 2 TC is best pick.
If you think it was split SPY IS 100 PERCENT SCUM.

Also, ask what are the odds of 1 experienced player and one newb being together versus 2noob or 2Exp.

Then look at the wagon patters.

Throw all of this together and you should have a good 3 player pool of who scum probably are.

Again, you express your read of me far more than you explain it (It's even selectively lurking in some bits - I know that a lot of stuff has happened recently for you, but when you did post it often ignored some of my points).

I don't think the odds matter and I don't get your point about them either, but since you wanted them:

2 Newbie = 6/9 * 5/8
= 30/72

2 SE/IC = 3/9 * 2/8
= 6/72

SE or IC/Newbie = 3/9 * 6/8 + 6/9 * 3*8
= 36/72

So... as you can see, the difference between 2 Newbies and SE/Newbie is pretty much negligible, considering the fact that reads are much more important than small differences in probability. Even if you were to take anything from it, it would be that Spyre-Chaos is unlikely.

To answer your question, considering I know I'm town, I'd say 1 in the wagon. Your reasoning of Spyre is strange, can you elaborate?

Your math helps my case btw.

Its easy.
Look at D1 wagons.
Look at TC votes.
Look at who TC doesnt vote.
Look at when TC votes.

This is why you are best D2 lynch.
Chaos had a similar voting pattern. If town wants Chaos lynched im A OK with that.

Lol and Spy really isnt trying if hes town. Which sucks as he is one of our non noob players. I guess its a noob game so no big deal.

Lynch CT, Chaos today.
Is Chaos is green fucking lynch the fuck out of spy. If Chaos is red then its probably still CT

[FrankJaeger]

Do you guys think there was one or 2 scum on D1 lynch wagon?
If 2 TC is best pick.
If you think it was split SPY IS 100 PERCENT SCUM.

Why is TC the best pick if there was two in that wagon?

Why is Spy 100% scum if there was 1?

The only logical way to conclude 100% scum spy is if there was 0 scum in that wagon. Are you bussing Spy?

What.

[FrankJaeger]

Ok guys.

Look at TC. What does it mean if he flips red? Green?
Same for Chaos.
Who looks good? Who looks scummy?
TC will give the better reads, but Chaos flip will pretty much give us a good read on spy.

More info from TC lynch, but either of these guys should be lynched D2.

[FrankJaeger]

Chaos Spyre is not a thing. If I am wrong and this was some sort of planned strategy I'll be asking them for lessons after the game.

This is one thing I am certain on

[FrankJaeger]

if we lynch Chaos and he flips town and if Spyre survives then it's back to the drawing board.

Really copper?
Are you saying Spy is cleared if chaos flips green?
Im thinking the opposite

[FrankJaeger]

Vote Count 1.5

TownCop (4) - copper223, Toto, Human Sequencer, Gideon (L-1)
Toto (1) - FrankJaeger
copper223 (1) - JasonWazza
Gideon (1) - TownCop

Not voting (2) - SmoothBlue, SpyreX


With nine players alive, it takes five votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day One is Saturday, 15th October 8pm BST, (in (expired on 2016-10-15 20:00:00)).

We dont have alot of concrete data, but votes dont lie.
This is a crucial wagon D1 because VLA has passed and scum had a great chance for a lynch.

If CT is town.

He wasnt lynched so Im thinking he is scum.

Who isnt on CTs wagon? Chaos,Spy, me. Then copper jumps on Gids wagon and we know the rest from there.

If CT is scum that would make Chaos,Spy,Me or maybe even copper his partner, just looking at this VC.

Lets look at the lynch wagon.

[FrankJaeger]

Vote Count 1.10

SmoothBlue (4) - Human Sequencer, JasonWazza, Gideon, copper223 [L-1]
Gideon (1) - TownCop
Toto (1) - FrankJaeger

Not voting (3) - SmoothBlue, SpyreX, Toto


With nine players alive, it takes five votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day One is Saturday, 15th October 8pm BST, (in (expired on 2016-10-15 20:00:00)).

Wait lets study this. L-1 on a known town. Only reason not lynched is because of claim. I dont think TC wanted to hammer before the claim because he knows it would look terrible.

Whos on the wagon?

Human, Chaos, towngid, copper.

So just copper on both wagons.

[FrankJaeger]

Vote Count 1.13

Gideon (4) - TownCop, Human Sequencer, ChaosOmega, copper223 [L-1]
SmoothBlue (1) - Gideon
Toto (1) - FrankJaeger
ChaosOmega (1) - SpyreX

Not voting (2) - SmoothBlue, Toto


With nine players alive, it takes five votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day One is Saturday, 15th October 8pm BST, (in (expired on 2016-10-15 20:00:00)).

TC still has vote parked. Human. Chaos. Copper. Totohammer.

So on the known town wagons- copper,chaos, and CT.
CT's wagon did not have chaos me or spy then copper jumps off at L-1.

Connect these dots it is PROBABLY CT and Chaos.
Looking at the associations after a green/red, CT gives the clearer perspective of who is scum.

If CT happens to be green it makes it easier on D3. If Chaos Flips green we will all have alot of trouble finding spys scum buddy.

[FrankJaeger]

Sorry, Human was on the known town wagons as well. But he voted for TC while the others didnt. So i think scumTC would clear Human. Green TC would mean human was on 3 town wagons.

[FrankJaeger]

So yeah heres my thinking. Still phone posting so I can make my sentences pretty.

[FrankJaeger]

I've got approaching 0 interest in a non chaos lynch today.

Are you saying Spy is cleared if chaos flips green?
Im thinking the opposite

?

[FrankJaeger]

if we lynch Chaos and he flips town and if Spyre survives then it's back to the drawing board.

Really copper?
Are you saying Spy is cleared if chaos flips green?
Im thinking the opposite

I am not give scum a road-map to my reads depending on how someone we haven't even lynched flips.

If Chaos flips green and if Spyre is alive tomorrow he will be more suspicious than today for sure, but not in any way confirmed scum.

I'm going to collect TC's voting pattern and then you can explain to us why you think it's scum indicative.

Im just confused by the logic that if chaos is green, and spy lives, we have to go back to the drawing board.

Its pretty clear spy is scum there but his partner is a complete guess.

[FrankJaeger]

@TC
Let's say I'm wrong about you but we are both right about Chaos, who do you think is his buddy?

Frank's the second scummiest person so far (albeit I still don't have a strong scum read on him)- he also needs to be more active (and he needs to respond to my later posts).
I think I've already explained part of my reasons in posts before.

I'm pretty confident of my strong town reads though: HS, Toto, and to

some

extent you. Through PoE, Spyre's probably the remaining one if it's not Frank.

How can you think Spy is scum if chaos is...

[FrankJaeger]

Hammering in less than 12 hours. Waiting for Chaos to post.

[FrankJaeger]

Unless town wants more time.

[FrankJaeger]

Oh jeez

[FrankJaeger]

VOTE: tc

[FrankJaeger]

Sick reads Spyre my man.

VOTE: Frank

He focused chaos all game. Singular.

sorry to break it to you, his read on me is wrong.

[FrankJaeger]

Frank, you may want to go back and answer my questions you haven't answered yet.

Rephrase them please.

[FrankJaeger]

copper can you explain your read progression at the end of D2

[FrankJaeger]

Focusing on scum all game until they are lynched is a good thing.

Hah but thats not what you said. Saying "sick reads" after he just focuses one person is wierd.

[FrankJaeger]

which ones would you like me to rephrase?

Um...I guess the ones you want me to answer?

[FrankJaeger]

which ones would you like me to rephrase?

Um...I guess the ones you want me to answer?

[FrankJaeger]

I'm certain enough that you are the last scum Frank that I am not interested in doing so.

Damnit this is scummy copper.

[FrankJaeger]

So coppers case on me is "spy has sick reads". Cool.

[FrankJaeger]

On paper copper looks terrible, but hes been invovled when scum didnt have to be.

Toto still "newb" so meh gg if its you kinda cheezy tactic.

Human Idk another gg if scum. Good job staying out of towns way but I think youre town.

TC sticking here.

Remaining scum is prob TC maybe Copper.

[FrankJaeger]

Nope, let's not discredit.

There was nothing to discredit. But now that you admit your reasoning, here we go.

Copper made a post game comment addressing how well Spyre played this game.

My case on you is that your read progression is wack, your reads are far too sticky, you stayed on Toto all day D1 and on TC all day D2 (and this was your plan today as well I guess, him being the most likely alternative to your lynch), being over-cautious with who you vote and how often you change is often scum indicative.

So when Spy tunnels to a greater extent, its sick. Ive been over cautious? How? And please explain the scum motivation.

But more importantly you're the only one that actively tried to deviate from a Chaos lynch yesterday and for that alone you're a compromised slot that needs to go.

So because I wasnt cock sure on my second scum read I need to go? How towny of you copper

Finally your reaction to Chaos's hammer after you gave him 12hrs to post kinda gives it away, don't you think.

lol no, but i do think thats WIFOM as fuck, and a pretty weak arguement I am scum

[FrankJaeger]

The scum motivation is that the more you switch the more you may be questioned about it so you try not to unless you have to

, limiting the amount of times you have to lie about something is a standard tactic to try and seem truthful when you are forced to lie.

Because there is an obvious scum motive for trying to deviate from Chaos, you doing so makes you the most likely scum candidate, and yeah that's very townie of me, I know.

I'm happy you seemed to be prepared for this one so at least you noticed your own slip, what happened is you prodded Chaos hoping he would respond by announcing the buss and when he hammered himself, instead of towning it up like you wanted him to and that's why you gave him that chance, you let that Jeez slip .

Yay, Ive got my PC back! Now I can try to not type like an idiot.

Look Copper. Your case against me is backwards. You're going in with the basis that I'm already scum. You authored my biography and called everything in it scummy. Cheap stuff.

I made my reads clear why frame them this way?

And you think me typing the words "Oh Jeez" and then hitting submit was an accident? I slipped and fell and it just happened?

Lol WTF?

@HS
This is the difference between me reading players and me wanting to lynch a player because I think he is scum, so it's true I am out for blood.

I think it's import for newer players to realize that once you're set on someone being scum you have to commit to your read and get them lynched, it's a valuable skill to learn.

Explaining mechanics (answering your Q+ and debating the general case of a 2 man IC/SE team) is a way to post and interact without giving anything away.

If the IC or one of the SE's doing it in a newbie you have to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are just explaining as they should (provided that's not ALL they do), but in a general game it's often a scumtell (it's called IIoA on the wiki, information instead of analysis).

Frank's reads by the way also look like him trying to buy off his lynch by town-reading those that haven't yet decided to hang him, in particular his Toto read evolution makes no sense (hint: because it's not a real read).

This. This. This. 1000 times. This proves my above point. Copper isn't scum hunting anymore. Just using WIFOM with

every

thing Ive done.
And about toto. Ive had the same toto read since I caught up on D2, can you prove different? Nah you cant.
Just shout "SCUM" as answer.
You aren't trying to figure out the game, you just want Frank lynched.


Look at the sentences I've bolded. Perfect example of what Copper is doing right now. He does a complete 180 when talking about himself, to human.
But I'm sure copper has a reply with "what I really meant" coming.

I still think TC is best lynch. Coppers play style has had an abrupt change, and it scares me. But Im still thinking the scum is 1-1 Exp/noob players.

[FrankJaeger]

I'm still want to hear what towncop has to say about his upcoming lynch tomorrow, after we lynch Frank today.

Hey. What happened to your questions?

Why just jump on my wagon like this now?

Apparently you didn't care for my answers in the first place.

Human says hes on the wagon too. Fuck. That's 3. I also have a hunch TC wants me lynched too.

Welp town, my reads are there. Not sure how accurate they are. If I get lynched, please no one vote on D4 until you are SURE of it. I still want to win this game, even if I'm dead.

[FrankJaeger]

Also 760 from toto is just terrible. scum or town

[FrankJaeger]

That's a pretty pitiful defense.

VOTE: FrankJaeger

I'm ready for a lynch.

Defense from what?

[FrankJaeger]

@Frank
Not admitting there is a case on you will not make the actual case go away.

My point is your case is unassailable when your saying "scum could do this" about everything I'm doing.

I mean I guess I can say "But Im not scum"

if there is something specific Ive done you arent clear on I'm happy to elaborate

[FrankJaeger]

I want you to take the instances where I call you likely scum for behaving in a certain way and explain what your thought process was.

Specifically, explain your Toto read progression. Explain what you meant with that jeez comment. Explain why you think TC and maybe I are the likeliest remaining scum from your perspective.

Isn't the burden on you to prove that I'm scum? Not for me to prove that I'm not.

Oh jeez as he hammered himself I didnt expect that. Did you see it coming? Why are you reaching so hard on this?

Ive made my read on toto clear. Need the post link?

You're asking me to rehash my reads. Why not just ISO me?

I've pointed out several flaws in your read, and you have no counter point?
Are you just going to keep looking for things to confirm your bias?

Ive asked you several questions that you haven't answered.

[FrankJaeger]

I wrote that post to ask TC to come and tell us why we should vote frank and not him since they are the two most likely to be scum. I have not decided who Im going to vote today. It looks like you wont need my vote to lynch frank though.

Why aren't you following our conversation?

[FrankJaeger]

Focusing on scum all game until they are lynched is a good thing.

My case on you is that your read progression is wack, your reads are far too sticky, you stayed on Toto all day D1 and on TC all day D2 (and this was your plan today as well I guess, him being the most likely alternative to your lynch), being over-cautious with who you vote and how often you change is often scum indicative.

The scum motivation is that the more you switch the more you may be questioned about it so you try not to unless you have to, limiting the amount of times you have to lie about something is a standard tactic to try and seem truthful when you are forced to lie.

I think it's import for newer players to realize that once you're set on someone being scum you have to commit to your read and get them lynched, it's a valuable skill to learn.

[FrankJaeger]

At work prod dodge

[FrankJaeger]

On semi-V/LA until Friday (started this Monday)

Not much has changed from last time I posted about my reads.
Frank is still not answering what I him to.

So, here is my intent to hammer when V/LA ends unless something changes.

Which questions?

Claiming I have no solid evidence is hilarious.
Who would?

Im actually looking into concrete stuff though. VCA is alot more reliable than what you are saying.

You are going to try and dicredit

any

read I have on you, sure. But its hard for scum to hide from VCA.

You didnt vote chaos, which just adds to my logic.

[FrankJaeger]

I've got approaching 0 interest in a non Frank lynch today.

I'm pretty much willing to hammer tomorrow if nothing changes.

?


Anyway,
Human can you help me understand why i am your vote?

[FrankJaeger]

I need to go back and check, but i think chaos was on every d1 wagon but yours

[FrankJaeger]

Above to CT

[FrankJaeger]

;D

[FrankJaeger]

GG all. How did you ever do that, spyre. I'm terrified of any games I play against you now.

Human I enjoyed having you in this game, hope we play again soon!

[FrankJaeger]

Haha well I've played a few.
I am not the best at finding scum,but I've become fairly good at finding town. It's about feeling what their agenda is

GG Spy! Maybe we can mafia together one day?

[FrankJaeger]

Links

Mod PT http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=68539
Mafia PT http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=68537
Dead thread http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=68549

Very professional job, and I will look to you as a model if I ever run a game.

[FrankJaeger]

MODLE

[FrankJaeger]

Whoohoo! Well played everyone!

WP Tot! sorry I was leaning on you D1! If you stick around we can learn and play together.

[FrankJaeger]

I think that's gg.

GG Copper. Thanks for being open minded. I saw you as the town leader, so your view was really important to me. Next time we play,lets work together. ;D

[FrankJaeger]

D2 soul reads ftw

[FrankJaeger]

Copper, you interested in /inning a game with me?

Or anyone for that matter? I want to get it in ASAP.

Spy, I completely understand the paranoia. I was super suspicious of you lol

[FrankJaeger]

Ill be there

[FrankJaeger]

Haha thanks my guy