Newbie 1744 - Game Over

[ChaosOmega]

Hello! Reading up now.

[ChaosOmega]

Not sure why you want a detailed read on Blue; he's a tracker until some contradictory claim happens. (This is me not claiming anything to suggest he isn't a tracker.)

As for what I think of Gideon, VOTE: Gideon
- 45 reads weird. Spy asked what someone thought about Gideon, and he immediately pops up and apologizes ("I didn't mean to spark any conflicts over my own misunderstandings."). I've seen enough newbies be overdefensive to be wary of that as a scumtell, but this is ultra-hyper defensiveness. No one accused Gideon of anything and he had no votes, not sure what conflicts he was referring to.
- Gideon, why were you hesitant to make accusations in 47? And why did you ask the question at the end of 158?
- 166, he puts TownCop to L-1 with seemingly lame reasoning. I know you clarified later this was a reaction test. This seems conflicting with you earlier, where you were super against early lynches. Did you know you were putting him at L-1?
- 205/262, you argue that you're maintaining your vote on TC because you're "generally wary of people who make a lot of accusations." This point blows. Before your vote on him, he made an RVS vote and a vote on Toto. Meanwhile, you had voted for Toto and Spy before jumping onto TC. Looks like you were just looking for a reason to stay on TC since it was the leading wagon.
- 266, I don't know how to read it. Toto calls you out for being a hypocrite and asking if you're scum for the same reason you're saying TC is, and you say that you're being town read. Who gives a shit? If it's scummy to do something, why are you doing it if you are town?
- Let's look at 2 of your posts in full:

I see no reason to vote SmoothBlue. TownCop is trying too hard to be cool under pressure to be town. I'm maintaining my vote.

Well, I'm not angry, but I am becoming more suspicious of SmoothBlue... and I have lots of reasons (gasp)!

He says I am "milking the new player card" but he claimed to be a new player himself:
#114 "I am new to Mafiascum, therefore I'll likely botch some tags and also ask for some lingo/try and research it myself (Did not know about RVS, VI, and I believe VC = Vote Count?)."
#122 "Gideon's defense was very odd considering there was only a couple votes down. He definitely is a new players, but I feel he is milking that "new player card". I'd like to see more content out of him."

He seems to have a conviction that all towns provide lots of content, and all scum provide little content. If this is his honest belief, then it explains the excessive amounts of content he's provided in order to make himself think he looks more like town. See:
#122: "I'd like to see more content out of [Gideon]." "I'd like to see more content from Spy."
#279: "My vibe on Gideon is that he isn't exactly providing content to the thread."
#281: "I can see someone who has more than 2 pages worth of content to sift through to have reads."

It was also mentioned that SmoothBlue's catch up post was suspiciously agreeable... fair point...

He says my 'defense' (if you can call it that - I really just asked why he was being voted) of Spy is scummish, but he does the same thing with TownCop:
#168: "I'm confused right now? What happened with TownCop other than he put Toto on L-2? @Toto and Spy, What am I missing here?"
#169: "The only thing that I see is the possible statistics that the 3rd vote was done by TownCop."
#171: "[in response to #170] TownCop even stated he was doing it to pressure Toto."
#171: "TownCop may be scum and was hoping some new townie would hammer Toto." - small distancing tactic, likely would come back to this as defense if (when) TC turned scum
#171: "Toto did a brutal job of trying to defend himself and had votes flying everywhere and settled on TownCop."
#174: "The fact that Spy/Gideon instantly switched their votes/opinions based on the above reasoning is quite ridiculous IMO." - continued defense of TC

To me, this last part is most telling - he has put a ton of posts into defending TownCop, who also acts very scummish by throwing random accusations everywhere. At this point, I have a very strong feeling that one scum is SmoothBlue, and the other is TownCop. Since there seems to be more support for a SmoothBlue lynch at this point, and in the interest of progress, I vote him.

VOTE: SmoothBlue
(wouldn't want this post to be too far from my normal, right?)

So in 237, you see no reason to vote him, but in 292, you vote to put him at L-1, with the large majority of your reasoning happened before you said there was no reason to vote him. Why was there "no reason" before? It seems like you're being blatantly opportunistic, voting on the main wagon because it's closest to lynch and looking for reasons after the fact.

[ChaosOmega]

VOTE: Human Sequencer

Why am I your top scumread, HS?

[ChaosOmega]

I've singled you out because your vote on my wagon is the scummiest.

You say you've accused me. Voting for me isn't an accusation. Can you show me anything you've posted as reasoning for why I'm scum? From my end, it looks like you're jumping on because there's suspicion for my slot.

Beyond that, a lot of Jason's behaviour was inconsistent and quite stupid, like how he would argue with Gideon over the reasoning for an RVS vote, and then jump on Copper for hiding RVS from the newbies, even though this is effectively what he was doing a few posts earlier. This didn't stick out to me before, but it does in isolation.

Jason doesn't look scummy to me. Just silly.

What changed exactly?

[ChaosOmega]

When did I even say that I 'accused' you? I voted for you because I want to lynch you. I thought that was obvious. Where exactly did I say I accused you?

You're my top scumread because your contribution so far has been 'Hop onto the current wagon' and 'Lurk and selectively reply to somebody who has accused me'.

You'll see that by post 448 I began to change my mind, and by the end of D1 I had completely decided to swap over to your wagon. So 'Jumping on' is actually a statement you've pulled completely out of your ass, because I was the first to vote for you, and the second to suspect you after Spyre, and I'd displayed intention of voting for many posts earlier. It's not like I took a complete 180 like your post implies, I had him as 'Null read' before changing my mind.

And you'll see that in 448, you posted zero reasoning for why you changed your mind. The Gideon lynch was a lock, so you were looking for your next mislynch? Yeah, you were the first to vote for me, but that doesn't mean shit, you got approval from Grand Emperor Spy in 470.

Jason didn't do anything to get townread, and my only post up to the start of Day 2 was a big case on the doctor who got lynched. I'm an easy mislynch here, I get it. Spy looks genuine with his push on me (even though I think it's weird he wants a fast day with Frank being a non-entity so far), and copper looks meh, but his D1 posting reads town to me. You look opportunistic to me. Yeah, you can say you set up voting for me for a while, and you went through the motions of it. To me, it reads like you're playing nice with Spy trying to stay out of his way.

Didn't I just tell you about how he was acting with RVS? This is a clear contradiction in motive. First he pressurizes Gideon for not knowing what RVS is, and then calls out Copper for withholding what RVS is. What changed was my perspective-- It's a lot easier to pick this out when you're reading over it for the fourth time.

Or it wasn't scummy before, but now I'm trying to get you lynched, so now it is.

As soon as I started considering the lynch for D2, you and Frank popped to the top of my mind, and when Spyre mentioned that he was ready to lynch you D2, I realized lynching you had some support, which is what made me decide to vote for you.

This reads as scum motive, looking for easy lynches over finding scum.

Frank and you? Your slots have been consistently flaky all game.

Not sure on Frank, but I don't post a lot as town or scum, so *shrug*.

[ChaosOmega]

I don't think you're taking a leader role this game (especially with your early posting D1); I'm more saying that with you being the IC and your join date, HS would think you're the strongest player and would want to avoid picking a fight with you as scum. Early on when HS was asking for more content (140), they read almost conciliatory towards you. 315 has them lining up behind you matching your reads, and their interactions with you in 389 and 448 reads like trying to avoid stepping on your toes.

[ChaosOmega]

If I was trying to stay out of Spyrex's way, lynching Gideon probably wasn't the wisest decision on my part, hey?

You still need mislynches if you're scum. There was support for it, and you specifically mention feeling that way despite Spy's defense of the slot.

'Or it wasn't scummy before, but now I'm trying to get you lynched, so now it is.'
Well, is it scummy or not? If it is, then the fact that I'm bringing it up now should be irrelevant.

To me, it looks like you found it not scummy when there wasn't support for my slot to be lynched, and scummy when there is. That's not irrelevant.

'This reads as scum motive, looking for easy lynches over finding scum.'
I found two people I believe are likely to be scum. Frank and you. You have support for a wagon. Therefore, I decided to vote you. Is this hard to follow?

"I found two people I believe are likely to be easy lynches. Frank and you. You have support for a wagon. Therefore, I decided to vote you. Is this hard to follow?"

-----

Frank, why is HS town? And can you go more into your Toto read?

TC, who is your top scumread right now?

Toto, what's the difference between copper's L-1 vote on Gideon following me when copper said he was suspicious of my slot and your hammer vote when you said you had a gut town read on Gideon and wouldn't hammer?

[ChaosOmega]

To me, it looks like you found it not scummy when there wasn't support for my slot to be lynched, and scummy when there is. That's not irrelevant.

Or more like passes through an initial scan easily, but pricks up on a more detailed reading once I have more reason to consider you as scum.
Much more important to me than when I realized this is the fact that Jason had that contradiction, which leads to him being a goon.

I have a feeling we're getting ready to come full circle, but what caused you to have more reason to consider my slot as scum?

I also asked him questions and grew more suspicious when he failed to answer convincingly to my well intended questions. When I made my mind to lynch him, even though I thought it was a lower chance than I would like it to turn scum, I also thought it was a good timing to end the day (I explained this earlier) on what seemed like a locked lynch, and the worst case scenario was going to be a VT to my knowledge.

Can you cite the questions you're talking about?

[ChaosOmega]

Received prod, busy this weekend, V/LA until Monday.

[ChaosOmega]

They don't.

VOTE: ChaosOmega