Mini Normal 1841 - At The End... (GAME OVER)

[Something_Smart]

Shut up. I'm always right.

[Something_Smart]

Townleans are Alpaca, Infinity, Zach, Transcend and Xnadroj.
Scumleans are Math and Creature.

[Something_Smart]

They're all slight and most of them are meta-based.

[Something_Smart]

The way I spelled his name was completely intentional and based off of how I hear it in my head.
What did you think of his entrance?

[Something_Smart]

Your name is Dnecsnart backwards. Does that mean I should call you Dnecsnart?

[Something_Smart]

I LOL'D SO HARD

[Something_Smart]

I wonder if Transcend-Infinity is scum-scum; their interaction did strike me as such... (Obviously since I'm so good at reading single people there can't be anything wrong with making preflip associatives )

Uh

Townreading people for early game tone is probably not a good idea in this game

I really don't know what to think about this

One post later:

Anyway I'm pretty sure transcend is town

(Anyway, I said that those reads were mostly meta based.)

So you are saying it's NAI.

Yep

Generally i play to make myself unreadable.

Is this even a viable strategy (for Town)

Sure it is

It makes people not fos me and enables me to focus on reads more, rather than having to defend myself.

This doesn't make sense to me. Why start explaining yourself now after saying that you wanted to make yourself unreadable? Wouldn't this make yourself readable?

I don't think that a scum player would blatantly call their reads BS reads though.

Why not?

Not crazy about XnadrojX. His posts feel like alot of faking noobiness.

And Something_Smart looks scummy too. He posts a readslist and the immediately says they're weak meta reads after getting challenged by Dunn and Trans. Why not mention that initially?

Why mention it initially? I got some interesting reactions.

[Something_Smart]

Not crazy about XnadrojX. His posts feel like alot of faking noobiness.

@jordan i have a hard time believing that was a reaction test and you were satisfied with his reaction

but i'm not voting you since i have a feeling you might be town

OK I like this post cause it was pretty much my exact thought.

If Xnad is trying to fake noob-town, he's convincing me.

Did you switch your read here or am I misunderstanding something?

[Something_Smart]

I never said it was a reaction test. Every single thing anyone says produces reactions; doesn't mean everything is a reaction test.

Answer my question, then. Why should I have mentioned it initially?

[Something_Smart]

Lol Gamma way to be an ass.

[Something_Smart]

I'm not scumreading anyone for disagreeing w/ me. I'm scumreading people for having garbage reads that they shouldn't have.

So you're scumreading people for strongly disagreeing with you?

No. And as I said, I'm just pointing out scumminess where I see it.

My reads are generally good. Therefore when someone attacks my scumreads, I give them townie points. When they attack my townreads, they get scumpoints.

Yes obviously town can have bad reads. One of the points of the game is figuring out if those people are scum or bad town.

Not crazy about XnadrojX. His posts feel like alot of faking noobiness.

@jordan i have a hard time believing that was a reaction test and you were satisfied with his reaction

but i'm not voting you since i have a feeling you might be town

OK I like this post cause it was pretty much my exact thought.

If Xnad is trying to fake noob-town, he's convincing me.

Did you switch your read here or am I misunderstanding something?

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying w/ the second post.

What caused you to change your mind?

i can't read iraon i kinda think he's town but

I DEMAND HE GETS VIGGED TONIGHT

VOTE: Creature

Just backing off since he knows policy vote looks bad.

Also, more proof he is not vigilante...

Can't tell if your serious?

I am not liking Gamma, and JarJar right now but Dunn and infinity seem pretty cool

Explain the Dunn read?

I never said it was a reaction test. Every single thing anyone says produces reactions; doesn't mean everything is a reaction test.

Total misdirection

I asked you why you made those reads knowing that they were just non-serious meta reads. YOU were the one that answered that question saying that U "got some interesting reactions". So obviously you're implying that the reads were made to gauge reactions.

Answer my question, then. Why should I have mentioned it initially?

Cause if ur town, there's no good reason to hide stuff (most of the time).

And you haven't actually answered me since you're now saying it wasn't a reaction test.

They were serious. They were not STRONG. I never said I posted those reads to get reactions; the part aimed at getting reactions was only the act of not stating how strong they were.
However, I didn't hide anything, as I said that they weren't strong after people remarked on them.

I don't take a whole lot of issue with Something_Smart at all, actually.

Why is this phrased in such a way to imply that you would be expected to take issue with me?

I actually like Dong's posting style.
UNVOTE:

Was your vote ever serious?

[Something_Smart]

I don't take a whole lot of issue with Something_Smart at all, actually.

Why is this phrased in such a way to imply that you would be expected to take issue with me?

because jarjar was like " ya my reads are good" and then he voted you

Do you disagree w/ what I'm saying or just dont think it makes S_S look scummy?


To recap:

I ask him why he posted reads that weren't really that serious and he responds

Why mention it initially? I got some interesting reactions.

Like how is that not him saying that he did it as a reaction test. He even re-asked the question he was responding to.

This sentence reads: "The reason I didn't mention it initially is because I got some interesting reactions."

Like how is that not a direct contradiction when he later says this?

I never said it was a reaction test.

Every single thing anyone says produces reactions; doesn't mean everything is a reaction test.

not to mention misdirection since he's now implying I'M the one who brought up the reaction test.

Stating my reads was not a reaction test. In asking myself whether I should say that they were weak in the same post and I thought, "there might be some interesting reactions if I don't". So I didn't.

[Something_Smart]

@the people who've played with JarJar before: does he usually believe his reads are amazing and read people based on how they agree with them, refuse to discuss with townreads, and/or scumread people for semantics reasons?

[Something_Smart]

I don't take a whole lot of issue with Something_Smart at all, actually.

Looks like whiteknighting.

why??

I mean, I'm far from a townread on zach

But I think that's a bit of a stretch

He's right, though. It does LOOK like whiteknighting.

Hey Infinity remember that time when I said a post made by someone I townread about someone I scumread looked like whiteknighting? These are good things to point out.

i said that so i could copy paste your readslist and say i disagree woth all of them. party crasher.

Sounds like a BS excuse.

Lol I'm fairly confident that Dong intended to do this. Not sure how that makes me feel about them though.

@the people who've played with JarJar before: does he usually believe his reads are amazing and read people based on how they agree with them,

refuse to discuss with townreads

, and/or scumread people for semantics reasons?

I'm refusing to get into an argument over playstyle w/ a townread. Not refusing to discuss stuffs.

Okay, fair enough. Correction acknowledged.

LMFAOOOOOO pagetop jacked

I don't take a whole lot of issue with Something_Smart at all, actually.

This is a scummy post by Zach by the way

Willing to believe Mathblade is incompetant for now

VOTE: Zachstral

Of course it is, I love you buddy but your inability to think sometimes upsets me











.........................but I'm the one who's really stupid

Wanted to get out some quick thoughts since work is going to be til late tonight.

I think the scum team is Zach dunn and something smart.

I don't like how Zach is pulling names from thin air and not supporting his reads. The only thing close to a reason is the psychology bit and while scientifically accurate does nothing to demonstrate whether those impulses are logical.

Furthermore if Zach was calling himself stupid and actually meant it then he would spend time asking questions and investigating people to get more signals into his brain to evaluate. Zach seems only interested in mudslinging.

Combining this with Dunn's sudden switch that looks like cross talk when I wouldn't be mislynched. Combined with how Dunn said I wouldn't be run up this gave Zach a place to camp while not doing anything useful.

Something smart when I played with them was pretty antitown. I don't like how they are wording their interactions with jar jar. They seem way more protown than when I played with them. I like it but it is very much off to how I know something smart to be.

hahahahaha

do you WANT me to play like I did in Poker Mafia? I don't think anybody wants that. Read some of my other games if you want to meta read me; that game was an outlier in just how terrible I was (and how busy I was).

Thanks for scum claiming.

You laugh at me but I am coin flip. I am either really really right or really really wrong. You think because you have labeled me an idiot that no one will listen and you will coast. You know of my tunnels Dunn. Once I find someone I think is scum I don't let go. I scream I yell I show I demonstrate. You can laugh now but I assure you when you flip scum I will have the last laugh after you are lynched.

you know, YOU aren't playing anything like you did in Poker either. But that doesn't mean I think you're scum.

I can tell you with certainty you're wrong on one of three of those, and that one is me

So you are saying S_S is scum, as Math is right about him and Dunn?

This looks like it was leading somewhere; how would you have followed this up if he had responded yes?

It seems like Infinity-234 is town-aligned.

Dongempire, what does your signature mean?

Why do you townread Infinity, and do you have a history of correctly reading him?

[Something_Smart]

@smart How does saying that you don't take issue with someone look like a WK? That's my question, obvious it's best to point something out of it does look like WKing.

Because by saying "actually" he's kinda admitting that I'm scummy while calling me town. It seems phrased as though he's defending a popular target (as a WK would), except that I'm not a popular target.

Also, why ask ira if he has a history of correctly reading me? Is that necessary to have a townread on someone?

No, but I want to know how much I can trust that read/expect that it be accurate, because I know my history of reading you is terrible.

[Something_Smart]

this game is hurting my brain

I don't understand why the vote in 461 was not for MathBlade... that seemed like the direction Zach was going and the direction I likely would have gone as him after that exchange.

I really want to read into Creature's and Dong's hops on the wagon but I feel like they're both more playstyle than alignment indicative.

Transcend's 467-468 is kinda shallow but I don't claim to know Transcend well enough to draw a conclusion from that.

random thing I noticed:

yeah fuck it if we get a speedlynch thatd be fun
VOTE: zach

Why do you want the day to end early? Wanna talk with your buddies?

scum have an encryptor

What makes you say that eeeeeeehhh...?

I wonder if Gamma knows there's no encryptor. Food for thought. (Edit: if this is true, 484 incriminates Dunn for hella awkward distancing.)

What the fuck is going on

Zach, why did you selfvote

Infinity is being infinity and this is the kind of post that I would townread until Poker ended and then scumread until True Love ended and now I don't even know. (Edit: ditto for 528)
(I like Dong's response though.)

okay Mathblade is playing WAY differently from Poker. (And not in a more pro-town way )
512 and 516 sound insincere.

I'm not getting any scumreads. Just a whole lotta bullshit.

then you aren't trying hard enough

[Something_Smart]

Meh I think Creature feels a bit lynchbaity.

Has JarJar talked? Like as in anything of significance?

How much of the game have you read

Let's lynch creature

Willing to join this wagon. Definitely looks like Micro 647.
VOTE: Creature

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[Something_Smart]

Meh I think Creature feels a bit lynchbaity.

Has JarJar talked? Like as in anything of significance?

How much of the game have you read

Let's lynch creature

Willing to join this wagon. Definitely looks like Micro 647.
VOTE: Creature

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

These 2 can go together right?

You think Creature is lynchbait and scum at the same time?

your feud is tvt

cease it

Lol I was gonna say it looks like an SvS. I'm trying not to read them based on associatives with each other but it's something to note for later. (And they are my two strongest scumreads independent of their interactions.)

(Out of curiosity and trying to reconcile reads, what made you say it was TvT?)

[Something_Smart]

I think Creature can be, but I don't really think he is lynchbait anymore.

So what did you mean by "These 2 can go together"?

[Something_Smart]

I think Creature can be, but I don't really think he is lynchbait anymore.

So what did you mean by "These 2 can go together"?

Lynchbait means they're an easy target for the lynch. That doesn't preclude them from being scum.

In 377 you used it as an argument in favor of him being town.

[Something_Smart]

If this was town smart he would have said something like "You contradicted yourself here. " (insert vote) "Explain why you aren't conf scum" or some kind of pressure. Instead it is just ...You used it as an argument in favor. When scum lie you take their contradictions and ram them down their throat. You don't just passively limp along and say "hey....you messed up." It looks like something that would belong in a scum chat except by the first post that isn't a thing.

He didn't contradict himself though. The two comments were 200 posts apart.

And why don't you see Dunn and Gamma together?

[Something_Smart]

Because his play is significantly closer to newbtown than newbscum.

[Something_Smart]

Transcend wanted examples for my newbtown/newbscum thing. So based on my experience, newbscum tends to be very interesting in their appearance. This can manifest itself in different ways, but what Xnadroj is doing fits none of them.
Here are a few examples of newbscum that I've seen:

Something_Smart in Newbie 1663:
I basically tried to control the game here as much as I could. I set down, based on weak reasons, who I would and wouldn't be willing to lynch, and I experienced a ton of snap read changes without having good progressions.

Dewy in Newbie 1670:
Dewy played up her newb status by asking a lot of questions and also, like me, laid down a lot of reads with long but superficial analysis. Look also at Garrett in this game, who made some awkward posts and then defended himself at the expense of all else.

AlpacaAlpaca in Mini 1792:
Granted, I wasn't in this game. But I followed along and I once again see the trend of putting down a lot of reads and giving a lot of explanation but the explanation isn't very deep and they seem more interested in explaining what they think than in interpreting what people are saying.

What I've described is a standard newbscum situation: they know how to fake reads and how to back them up with evidence, but they're giving too much and not taking in enough. This is very different from what Dongempire described. When Xnadroj posts, he doesn't seem to have any goal in mind besides working out this huge puzzle. Experienced scum might play that way, but specifically among the two archetypes "newbscum" and "newbtown", he fits the "newbtown" one much better.

(I could attempt to describe newbtown, but it's a lot more nebulous and is closely connected with the concept of obvtown, a concept for which a definition would be self-contradictory. However I can still give some of the best examples I've experienced: Ilikebugs in New York 194, JaeReed in Newbie 1706, and Maverick1102 in Micro 615.)

[Something_Smart]

This is the THIRD OMGUS accusation you made.

Please elaborate, because I don't see any OMGUS accusations.

[Something_Smart]

This is the THIRD OMGUS accusation you made.

Please elaborate, because I don't see any OMGUS accusations.

1) Alpaca
2) Dunnstral
3) MathBlade

You're aware that voting someone who scumreads you does not automatically constitute OMGUS, right?

[Something_Smart]

this game is hurting my brain

MmHmm

At least I've demonstrated that I have one.

I don't understand why the vote in 461 was not for MathBlade... that seemed like the direction Zach was going and the direction I likely would have gone as him after that exchange.

Why are you mentioning this? Do you think Zack is scummy for not voting math there?

I think Zach's selfvote gambit was poorly timed; I don't think he's scummy for that but pressuring Math after that weird exchange would have been nice.

I really want to read into Creature's and Dong's hops on the wagon but I feel like they're both more playstyle than alignment indicative.

Explain please. This just sounds like you wanted to bring attention to the hops w/o actually commenting on em

I personally didn't approve of those hops, but I know that a lot of people do play like that.

I'm not getting any scumreads. Just a whole lotta bullshit.

then you aren't trying hard enough

WHAT???? Where are YOUR scumreads? You made ONE post w/ scumreads in your 2nd post of the game and then said that they were only weak meta reads.

first of all: nowhere did I state that I thought I was trying hard enough. second of all: nowhere did I state that I had no reads just because I'm not shoving them in people's faces.

Creature is not trying to gamesolve.

He has not even commented on the XnadrojX lynch. He opts to have his vote in a safe place with no attention.

I feel like this isn't as scummy as you're trying to make it sound. (The first part might be a scummy action, but the following sentences do not serve as evidence for it.)

You know what I wanna try this. Everyone should give a Day 1 trust, someone they would proxy their vote to.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
Dongempire.

VOTE: Zachstralkita

Oh good, another scum pulling a gambit.

This is a very bad post

agree

Plus no vote to follow.

Creature is scum. His progression through this game is not genuine, and his lines are forced.

Maths most recent post is the only one i like all game.

Still don't like the Jordan slot.

Gamma's posts are scummy, but very likely scummy town.

Gun to head it's creature, jarjar, Jordan.

Why is Creature scum but Gamma scummy town?

I have a feeling that Something_scummy might actually be scum here; I think we should explore this option by bringing him to lynch

You don't sound very confident for this apparently being your super secret surprise holstered read.

1 wk point for Gamma

I'm not saying he's particularly townie dude; I'm questioning this demand for Transcend to be vigged. How do we know there's even a vig in this setup?

This is a dumb question. If there's no vig, then of course nobody is getting vigged. Also, a question for you: Do you like faking overreactions as scum?

[Something_Smart]

What makes you say that?

[Something_Smart]

your nadroj townread is based solely on meta for someone who just joined the website. you're giving this newb benefit of the doubt because he matches the archetype of "newb town". but not all newbs will match the "newb town archetype".

But almost all newbs who do are town.

I know JarJar asked about my reads, so it's probably a good time to share them:
Town- Dongempire, XnadrojX, Manuel87
Null/town- Infinity 324, iraonavp, Zachstralkita
Null- Creature, Transcend
Null/scum- JarJarDrinks, MathBlade
Scum- Gamma Emerald, Dunnstral

To bump or not to bump...

...that's the question.

Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous pagetops, or to take arms against a sea of spamposts and, by opposing, end them... 'tis a consummation devoutly to be wished.

[Something_Smart]

When I posted 1001 I was not really against the Creature wagon; I trust that other people can read him better than I can, and his flip would definitely give a lot of info either way.
After those last three posts by Creature I'm even less against it than I was.

[Something_Smart]

please no one lolhammer. My readslist is coming soon and this post

When I posted 1001 I was not really against the Creature wagon; I trust that other people can read him better than I can, and his flip would definitely give a lot of info either way.
After those last three posts by Creature I'm even less against it than I was.

is making me think creature may be town.

Transcend
I think you are town but this is making me not like this wagon
stop

If Creature is town these two can hang next

[Something_Smart]

Oh, I see.
So I'm scum because Creature's town.
And Creature's town because I'm scum.
10/10 logic bro

[Something_Smart]

JarJar and S_S shouldn't hang imo

Do you see 1018 as coming from a town perspective?

[Something_Smart]

Something_Smart - Scum. Has barely posted ANY scumreads this game except for the ones @ the start of the game that he immediately said weren't real reads. Like so many of his comments are just pointing stuff out and then not commiting to an actual position. And his most recent opportunistic vote on creature just came out of nowhere.

I'm laughing so hard right now


And if you think Gamma is scum then help us wagon him.

[Something_Smart]

Do you still think I voted Creature?

[Something_Smart]

@s_s Let's talk about gamma. I forget why exactly you scumread him, but there is little doubt in my mind that he's town. He's playing very similarly to his town game, specifically he doesn't give a flying fuck about looking town.

I don't see that at all. How can you say that 951, 953, 993, 997, and 1020 (just to quote some of the more recent ones) are not interested in looking town?

Do you still think I voted Creature?

Oh I guess u didn't. Pretty sure that makes it even worse. Since just like what I said about the rest of ur posts:

so many of his comments are just pointing stuff out and then

not commiting to an actual position

I have committed to a position:

When I posted 1001 I was not really against the Creature wagon; I trust that other people can read him better than I can, and his flip would definitely give a lot of info either way.
After those last three posts by Creature I'm even less against it than I was.

Just because it's not one of the two extremes doesn't make it not a position.

[inspectorscout]

I already PM'ed it but

V/LA until Sunday

VOTE: JarJar

Noted (again). I just edited it in.

[Something_Smart]

That was easily the second-worst gambit I've ever seen.
And the worst part about it is that it would have been great if he had just unvoted when Dunn threatened to hammer.

Anyway I want to lynch JarJar and Infinity. But I don't want to rush things.

[Something_Smart]

can we please end this discussion right now

[Something_Smart]

why aren't you claiming?

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: Infinity
if that were true you'd also have a watcher shot lololol

[Something_Smart]

UNVOTE:

[Something_Smart]

Don't want him to selfhammer

[Something_Smart]

No. You three all advocated a JarJar lynch this looks like a coordinated effort. I also think Xnadr is town.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HE WANTS YOU TO THINK

[Something_Smart]

not so awesome 'cause it's getting you lynched

[Something_Smart]

AND JARJAR IS CONFIRMED TOWN UPON INFINITY SCUMFLIP

why?

[Something_Smart]

and then... that scumread mysteriously disappeared once JarJar started getting pressure?

[Something_Smart]

Infinity projected his in-thread read of me (town) onto the whole town, and therefore thought of me as a good kill target, but was presumably persuaded otherwise (possibly by JarJar, who would have done the same thing in reverse).

[Something_Smart]

shush you you're one of my top picks for the other buddy

[Something_Smart]

Is that too many town prs?

We can believe infinity is scum but still give him a chance to clear himself and lynch the scummy guy not dependant on his alignment

Infinity can't be scum if he gets to pick who dies and gets a vig shot.

This makes sense, but I think the odds that Infinity is a scum PR that can interfere with other town PR's (the most likely case of this being where Infinity is a strongman and Manuel still has his vest) are greater than the odds that he's telling the truth (and that scum don't have some way to block his shot).

Since his claimed role is not only not normal, it's an unknown variant of how the role normally works, AND he backtracked on it saying that it could only absorb one ability after I pointed out a contradiction in his claim (which is a further change from the original Absorber), AND he said that the ability he did absorb was the factional kill when absorbers normally can't absorb factional actions, AND he said he thought that which ability was chosen was random, which would be explicitly non-normal.

[Something_Smart]

It doesn't really matter though, because you're okay with being lynched today, right?

[Something_Smart]

not so awesome 'cause it's getting you lynched

I'm ok with that tbh

@dunn I don't see how BP contradicts with absorber or watcher

It's not very much power anyway

?

[Something_Smart]

I think it was a joke coupled coincidentally with a naked vote that could have been misinterpreted as a crumb.

[Something_Smart]

what is this I can't even

Dunnstral are you for real

[Something_Smart]

called it

[Something_Smart]

I mean, if you hadn't slipped up and instead claimed that you received a 1-shot watcher in addition to (or instead of) the 1-shot vig, you might have had a chance.

[Something_Smart]

yeah but that was a scum role

and I actually wondered if you might have had it, lol

[Something_Smart]

Your life will soon be dunn as well

[Something_Smart]

Jarjar was ignoring logic in order to bus infinity as hard as possible.

Bwhahaaahahaa

Ignoring logic OMFG!!!?!!!!!

Infinity is still scum for @ least the following reasons:
- Absorber cannot absorb the mafias kill therefore he is lying
- Gamma didnt see anyone else target therefore he is lying

That is as logical as can possibly be bro. Infinity was proven to be lying therefore he is clearly scum.

YOU were the one that ignored logic to hard-defend scum.

If you're town Dunn then you need to swallow your pride and realize that you played like an idiot yesterday.

I'm gonna reread and will likely be posting a case against S_S today.

I want to see this actually

because I was thinking that there's a chance you might be lynchbait and that I'd have to watch for that today, but this should make it pretty clear whether or not that is the case.

Something doesn't make sense here.

This seems way overloaded with power. JK + Watcher + BP pushes realms of improbability but that plus <redacted> is not likely at all.

One of Manuel or <redacted> are scum. Manuel is more likely based on how they tried to save infinity.

VOTE: Manuel87

do you even setup spec?

[Something_Smart]

Mathblade, I don't think you can draw any useful conclusions from setup spec while so much is unknown about the scum power. I personally think the setup would be balanced by a goon and either a roleblocker or a ninja/strongman JOAT (though I do agree that Dunnstral's idea is a bit harsh in that it provides scum absolutely no protection against the Watcher).

Jarjar was ignoring logic in order to bus infinity as hard as possible.

Bwhahaaahahaa

Ignoring logic OMFG!!!?!!!!!

Infinity is still scum for @ least the following reasons:
- Absorber cannot absorb the mafias kill therefore he is lying
- Gamma didnt see anyone else target therefore he is lying

That is as logical as can possibly be bro. Infinity was proven to be lying therefore he is clearly scum.

YOU were the one that ignored logic to hard-defend scum.

If you're town Dunn then you need to swallow your pride and realize that you played like an idiot yesterday.

I'm gonna reread and will likely be posting a case against S_S today.

I want to see this actually

because I was thinking that there's a chance you might be lynchbait and that I'd have to watch for that today, but this should make it pretty clear whether or not that is the case.

OK just in case anyone is wondering how to read this, here's what S_S is saying to me:

"You better not push my lynch because I'm gonna jump on your wagon if you do."


But I'm gonna save you some time here. There is no point in trying to determine if I'm lynchbait. I've played in around 15 games on this site and have NEVER been lynched. There's never even been anythng resembling a real wagon on me. I can guarantee you that nobody that has ever played mafia with me would ever call me lynchbait.

Do you think that I could have realistically expected you to NOT push my lynch? Given the lack of support for your lynch thus far, do you think I would expect such a veiled threat to effectively deter you from pushing me?

Same, until I saw the day start PM.

I actually believe this.

I can confirm that I am not scum.

@Dongempire I have to disagree with you for that, I don't believe JarJar is scum, and I am most certainly NOT shitposting.

Went back and ISOed Infinity to try and see what he did, and I feel pretty comfortable that JarJar + S_S is Town.

Either Manuel or Dunnstral is scum though, and given the outrageous about of Town power, I'm inclined to lynch Manuel.

VOTE: Manuel

Potential JarJar partner found. @Xnadroj why do you think that your reads on me and JarJar are better than either of our reads on each other? What about Infinity's ISO makes you so sure neither of us could be his partner? Why does either Manuel or Dunnstral have to be scum?

[Something_Smart]

Universal Roleblocker is out for scum would have roleblocked Gamma and killed someone else unless his reads are right and he was killed for that and a PR is a coincidence.

and you know this... why?

[Something_Smart]

I don't know about you, but my brain would tell me that killing a conftown is smart.

[Something_Smart]

Your argument is literally, "Why kill a confirmed PR when you can roleblock them instead?"
Which makes literally no sense, because the role is just as useless whether it is killed or roleblocked.
And this is not role madness. There is almost certainly not another town PR that might be dangerous for scum.

I'm not saying that killing Gamma would have been the only smart choice. But you can't say that no scumteam with a roleblocker would kill Gamma.

In other news, I'm still waiting for JarJar to post his case and respond to my questions.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: JarJar

[Something_Smart]

Can someone who's played with JarJar before tell me how his playstyle this game compares to other games?

[Something_Smart]

And I'm asking it again. I didn't get a good answer last time and I really want to know.

[Something_Smart]

I mean, if you're town, you'd welcome this, because I looked through your ISO in May 13th and it actually does bear some resemblance with this, including the massive tunnel on town, and so I'd like to gauge the likelihood of that being the case here.
And to be fair, I have had some uneasy thoughts about the other people on your wagon.

I'll also ask you what is your definition of doing something?

[Something_Smart]

JarJar, can you answer my questions in 1817 please?

@Manuel: because his push on me all game, but particularly his recent case, is weak, not a natural thought progression, and obviously reaching to justify an incorrect conclusion in ways unlikely to be town caught in a tunnel.

[Something_Smart]

Do you think that I could have realistically expected you to NOT push my lynch? Given the lack of support for your lynch thus far, do you think I would expect such a veiled threat to effectively deter you from pushing me?

Fair points. Probably not.

I guess it's more likely that you were just trying to justify your eventual vote on me.

I had already voted you and made my scumread on you known in previous days. I could have justified an immediate vote on you if I had wanted to.

I'll also ask you what is your definition of doing something?

scumhunting, voicing your reads and/or reasoning, trying to push a lynch, etc...

Scumhunting- I don't think if you look at my posts from an unbiased perspective (and granted, you are unable to do that, either because you're town stuck in a tunnel or scum faking it), that you could say I haven't been scumhunting.
Voicing reads and/or reasoning- I will admit that I haven't done much of this since day 1, but to be honest, there hasn't been much need to. I was absent for basically all of day 2, and there was a guilty on day 3 and I obviously wasn't dying, so I didn't feel it useful to voice my reads then either.
Trying to push a lynch- Similar to the previous, I did this on day 1, didn't have a chance to on day 2, and didn't need to on day 3.

If you're trying to compare me to you, I think our content levels were comparable day 1. Day 2 wasn't a fair fight because of my V/LA, and the fact that you pushed Infinity hard day 3 means diddly-squat.

[Something_Smart]

Bullshit. Even if you believed Infinity was scum there is always a need to hunt partners unless there are no scum remaining.

Okay, fair enough. But I just didn't see a need to publicize that. There's nothing I could have said tomorrow that I couldn't say today.

You are either horribad town that has a guilty conscience for not doing anything on D3 or you are scum. I am leaning towards town with a guilty conscience but this post is terribad.

I hope you realize that what goes on in my head and what goes on in my posts are not always congruous, particularly when there was no question as to what the result of Day 3 was going to be. Now, I don't mind if you object to me waiting until today to start hunting Infinity's partners on the grounds of town always being completely open, but you can't call it "terribad"... at worst it's not contributing where no contribution is needed. And I don't have a guilty conscience; I don't think I did anything wrong, just maybe a bit lazy.

In the prior game I played with you you gave no shits about how you were perceived. Why the sudden shift?

Well, for one, people are actually giving reasons to scumread me this game, so I can actually push against them. And for two, I'm needling JarJar about his read on me not to get him to change it but rather to read HIM.

[Something_Smart]

Oh also, VCA like the kind you're doing is terrible and easily manipulated.

[Something_Smart]

Can I knock it since I've consistently fooled it as scum?

[Something_Smart]

Bussing is not playing against your wincon.

[Something_Smart]

Okay then
VOTE: Mathblade

[Something_Smart]

Read JarJar's ISO. In particular, look at the reasons he gives for his reads.
He is obviously not trying to get into people's heads and figure out what they might be thinking. He throws out reasons such as:

4 pages in and townreading Dunn. I like his reads and he's like the only person trying to move the game past RVS.

Transcend looks bad. I get the impression he's trying his hardest to appear to not be invested in the game.

Creature looks even worse for townreading trans. dafaq can he possibly have been townreading @ that point?

OK I like this post cause it was pretty much my exact thought.

If Xnad is trying to fake noob-town, he's convincing me.

I think the scum team is Zach dunn and something smart.

Well games over I guess

Congrats to mathblade naming the entire scum team on page 17

fuck sake bruv i told u we could have got out of it

Very much dislike this last post from Zach.

I feel like he's trying to inception the idea into Dunn that since math is wrong about him, he's wrong about Zach too.

please no one lolhammer. My readslist is coming soon and this post

When I posted 1001 I was not really against the Creature wagon; I trust that other people can read him better than I can, and his flip would definitely give a lot of info either way.
After those last three posts by Creature I'm even less against it than I was.

is making me think creature may be town.

Gamma Emerald

- Scum. Man for the quantity of posts in his iso, gamma doesn't say anything. Seriously, do a quick skim and look @ how much fluff is there. It's just nonsense w/ an occasional sheep vote w/o any reasoning. I dont really understand the progression of the creature read going from lynchbait to scum. Also I mentioned how I didn't like the misrep of zach which he wrote off as "I was totally misrepping on purpose".

Dongempire

- Scum. pointed out earlier how he said my reads weren't good. Then he asked me for a reads list after I wanted him to point out the reads he didn't like. He STILL has yet to answer what reads of my he thinks were bad. His entire ISO is pretty content-less. All of his reads are just so empty.

Something_Smart

- Scum. Has barely posted ANY scumreads this game except for the ones @ the start of the game that he immediately said weren't real reads. Like so many of his comments are just pointing stuff out and then not commiting to an actual position. And his most recent opportunistic vote on creature just came out of nowhere.

I don't really know how to explain it but it's more than just "vibes" or "gut". It's "lack of anything real". I know what it's like to fake reads as scum; usually you can just say stuff that looks good and looks like something that you might conceivably use to read someone but upon further inspection it just falls apart.

There are also important things that you're ignoring in your argument that JarJar as scum wouldn't be playing and voting the way he is. Scum's goal is to gain mislynches. How they gain them, it doesn't matter-- it's not like they HAVE to push mislynches for them to happen. In fact, for precisely the reason you are describing, scum would often prefer to be off a wagon, unless they're needed for it to go through. Clearly JarJar wasn't needed for either the Creature lynch or the Transcend lynch; so why would he have to be on it if he were scum?

(Also, he himself invalidated this argument in 1648. After he tried to claim towncred for it and was rebuked.)

And by the way, you said that if he were scum he'd have to start pushing mislynches eventually. Well guess who he's pushing today?

If you want to have a discussion with me (though from your V/LA it seems you might not be able to; when you get a chance I guess) about JarJar's play, rather than the fact that the other players decided to lynch town without his help being needed, I'll be happy to have it with you. But the fact is that you can't consistently form good reads based solely or even primarily on votes; that's been tried time and time again and burned time and time again.

[Something_Smart]

JarJar I think they're town > scum

Most possible scumpartner is Dong.
Most unlikely scumpartner is JJD.

explain

[Something_Smart]

MathBlade, have you had time to read my case yet?
(Also, do you REMEMBER what Infinity was like in Poker? Do you really doubt he'd do that?)

[Something_Smart]

If this is town, then JarJar is probably town.
(And given that my feelings about Xnadroj are pretty similar to how my feelings were about Creature Day 1, he probably is town.)

[Something_Smart]

Because I feel like both scum would have been on this wagon.

Although phrased like that it sounds pretty shaky... maybe a better way to express my gut feeling is that JarJar if scum would have found a way onto the Xnadroj wagon, especially when it was clear that a wagon on me was going nowhere.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah, I just addressed that.

That's why I rephrased it in a non-VCA way.

[Something_Smart]

FYI the Neighborization was what I referred to as most neighborizers are weak so I had thought ergo conf town. A nonweak neighborizer is even more powerful damn. Makes me think it is Manuel + Dong or SS. Dong because he was inactive in the hood and SS because his reads seemed more capitalistic.

The only thing remotely right here is the part about Dongempire, and that's not even the main reason I scumread him. (For those of you not in the hood, Dongempire is now my top scumread due in part to that hammer.)

[Something_Smart]

I'm not being lynched today.

Pick one of them (preferably Dong) and push them instead.

[Something_Smart]

Nope.

I've already admitted that my head was probably up my butt about you; now time to do the same about me. (It's definitely a playstyle thing; we both have playstyles that the other doesn't like.)

[Something_Smart]

Read the neighborhood thread.

[Something_Smart]

I should probably just out my second scumread now.

[Something_Smart]

Okay.

I think the scumteam is Dongempire/Mathblade.

[Something_Smart]

Everything you say pings me.

[Something_Smart]

You already scumread Dong, though, correct?

[Something_Smart]

And bussing is a natural state to be in for scum because you can make arguments you genuinely believe in. So given that neither of you were under serious suspicion coming into this day (and that nobody's buying your ML on likely town Manuel based on some of the worst setup spec I've ever seen), you two as a team would likely be expecting to lynch one of you and have the other coast to victory pretty handily on the towncred.

[Something_Smart]

So you look like you aren't partners.

I ran a game with 4 town PR's that was comparable to this setup (because ofc Manuel would be 1-shot) against a scum rolecop as the only real scum power. Your conception of balance is wrong.

And are you saying that "gut" has got

me

mislynch after mislynch? Because I was off all three mislynches. (And my flip on JarJar came from nobody but myself.)

[Something_Smart]

hey it's Titus!

Titus I hope you are town because town!Titus is exactly what this game needs and scum!Titus is exactly what this game doesn't need.

And I'd probably be up for a no lynch. I'm also interested to hear your VCA although I have serious reservations about putting any sort of faith into it.

Regarding the neighborhood, just to be clear, it's night talk only, so Manuel can read it but hasn't been able to post in it. Also Manuel claimed BP if that wasn't already mentioned.

[Something_Smart]

Manuel is definitely the only one who's claimed PR. I'm pretty sure he's the only one who's claimed at all.

[Something_Smart]

VT. Popcorn Mathblade.

[Something_Smart]

I did rolefish Mathblade. Why are you acting like that's a bad thing?

And ugh. I'm gonna need to check and see how often I am right versus wrong when I defend scummy people because I think that they're lynchbait (and I can think of a few times when I have incorrectly townread scum like this just off the top of my head), because I feel like I might do better just scumreading people who are scummy and leaving it at that.

[Something_Smart]

Why is it terribad? Of my two scumreads, you were the one I thought more likely to claim a PR.

And duh, it's massclaim. Everyone's claiming anyway, and if you have been obvious VT like you said, then your claiming early doesn't really do much for scum.

(I don't expect it to matter much, however, since I expect everyone else to claim VT anyway.)

[Something_Smart]

Titus I'm pretty sure you'd know better than this as town.

[Something_Smart]

Calling me scum based on VCA. (Calling me scum at all, really.)

[Something_Smart]

I'm not sure what drives you to say that "my wagon spots are terrible" when I was on hardly any wagons, and none that led to lynches. It's indicative of nothing more than me being conservative with my vote, which is a playstyle/situational thing.

You scumreading me at all because I think I'm a fairly easy to read player, and you have a decent amount of experience with me.

In any event, I think we just need your claim and then we can NL.

[Something_Smart]

I'm changing my mind again aaaaaaaaah
Titus, did you claim?

[Something_Smart]

In what way would I be concerned?

(Also, can you just claim please? You can't advocate massclaim and then not claim; that defeats the purpose.)

[Something_Smart]

Nah, the purpose is to force scum to claim. Since we know I am not, there's no point in giving scum that info. Like I said, the times where this is a proper move are rare. This is it.

So, why aren't you investigating if Math is white knighting you?

No point in whiteknighting when a town lynch ends the game

And FYI I scumread you now.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: Titus

[Something_Smart]

@Smart
Much more important people claim reads and are held accountable to what they say their reads are. Speaking of which did you say what your new reads are?

I was waiting until Titus claimed, but since she obviously isn't going to, I'll just say that my top scumreads now are Titus and JarJar.

[Something_Smart]

@Smart
Much more important people claim reads and are held accountable to what they say their reads are. Speaking of which did you say what your new reads are?

I was waiting until Titus claimed, but since she obviously isn't going to, I'll just say that my top scumreads now are Titus and JarJar.

Who hasn't been your top scumread today?

You. Manuel. Mathblade.

What kind of a question is that?

[Something_Smart]

Here's a list of all the players in the game that Something_Smart has not advocated lynching today

- Something_Smart


That's not an exaggeration.

lol

misrep moar plz

[Something_Smart]

@S_S what changed your townread on me?

My growing townread on Mathblade and my decision that scummy people are probably just scum.

[Something_Smart]

I'm gaining confidence now, in Titus at least. Because I have been on the receiving end of a vehement town!Titus push and she doesn't seem at all the same. Plus she's kinda getting desperate now that people are calling a Titus/JarJar team.

And Titus, you were the backup mod for Walking Dead Season Finale. How closely did you follow the game? If it wasn't very closely, go and look at the VC's and then at the flips and tell me if you still believe what you said about JarJar.

[Something_Smart]

Not gonna respond to all of this (not yet, anyway), but:

Not sure what his townread on mathblade has to do w/ anything so his reason here is "You're acting scummy".

You don't think the fact that me townreading someone I previously scumread might have something to do with me scumreading someone I previously townread?

(Also, just for the record, Mathblade was never my top scumread. I just found it highly unlikely that Dongempire would claim anything other than VT, whereas Mathblade's setup spec could be seen as a prelude to them claiming a PR and saying, "THAT's why I knew Manuel was fake.")

[Something_Smart]

I don't think there's much more I can contribute at this point. I don't think the odds are even 50/50 that the scumteam is Titus/JarJar but I do think it's the most likely team and I don't think further thought will improve my personal odds of finding the scum. (It seems to me that Dong feels the same way.)

I'm not going to make a case, because my cases are always terrible and people rarely listen to them anyway. I form my reads based on a multitude of small and fleeting factors that I can't write down without disrupting my concentration, and I can't remember them all (or even the majority of them) either. That's what got me lynched in Poker, because I locked in on a scumteam and didn't have more to contribute. However, I think that in this case, enough evidence has been presented that I don't need to give much more. (But just off the top of my head, read the interactions between Infinity and iraonavp. Infinity asks a lot of softball questions to ira and throws some minor shade that never really goes anywhere, and then ira ends up in the middle of his reads.)

and lol at the groundhog day reference (I actually contemplated designing a game around that movie, wonder how it would work... ) and lol at Mathblade saying that 1-shot BP is the same amount of power as watcher.

[Something_Smart]

@Manuel: the first thing I thought of is that they either rolecopped or tracked him and determined he was a PR.

But it could just be to protect JarJar, or it could be WIFOM. I don't know, but it was something that I thought about.

[Something_Smart]

Worse case scenario we draw.

That is not the worst case scenario.

[Something_Smart]

Worse case scenario we draw.

That is not the worst case scenario.

It is 10v3 in the first post? So only two scum remain. Explain how no lynching loses?

I have intention of reconsidering after an NK.

It doesn't, but it's full to the brim of WIFOM. (And by the worst case scenario, I'm obviously referring to the case where we NL and then mislynch.)

Also, for the record, scum would have huge incentive to bus here. It's basically a guaranteed win.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: NL

if we're gonna lose this game we might as well hurry up and do it

(also I think now is the appropriate time to end discussion and see who dies.)

[Something_Smart]

Goddamn.

Was it you and JarJar?

[Something_Smart]

Sigh.

Very well played Mathblade.
Well played Dongempire.

And by the way, no lynching at the time I said wasn't wrong here. I would have wondered why Mathblade didn't die.

[Something_Smart]

I'm not unhappy with how I did this game. I had Infinity and JarJar nailed way earlier than most people (although I didn't speak up about my Infinity read until he already had the guilty).

[Something_Smart]

I don't think the setup was unbalanced. I think it was pretty swingy, primarily because of the watcher.

[Something_Smart]

Mathblade, how much of what you said about setup spec actually reflected your beliefs?

[Something_Smart]

thanks for the advice, mr. "jarjar is conftown".

[Something_Smart]

actually, we should have lynched him day 3 after lynching Infinity day 2.

[Something_Smart]

I KNEW INFINITY WANTED TO KILL ME BUT JARJAR TALKED HIM OUT OF IT

[Something_Smart]

also aww the scum thought I was a PR but never had a chance to kill me :/

[Something_Smart]

and finally, lol @ Mathblade assuming my reads were going to be anywhere near constant in MYLO.

[Something_Smart]

Sorry but when my lynch is inevitable, i tend to not give a fuck

It wasn't though

I was gonna defend you and push Infinity when my V/LA was over but I genuinely thought you had scumclaimed and hammered.

The reaction test wasn't bad, just you should have unvoted when Dunn threatened to actually hammer.