Open 658 Making Friends and Enemies | Game Over

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VOTE: MiniDeathStar

I had friends on MiniAlderan.

p-edit: Ah, the murder weapon reveals itself.

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UNVOTE:

VOTE: doomfeathers

Deathstar's RVS is indeed interesting (yes deathstar, there was already a vote on BK). But doomfeathers' vote looks really opportunistic to my eyes.

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Jin, Random voting is an important part of the game. And also it's over. Got any thoughts on doomfeathers/deathstar right now?

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Hmm, now that I think, the same could apply to Aubrey.

Aubrey, you got anything on the early wagons that are forming yet?

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VOTE: MiniDeathStar

Choo choo...

Why the Deathstar wagon and not the doomfeathers one?

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Two things right off the bat.
1. This is my first game on this forum but i have little over two years experience with forum mafia but that is meta-gaming and i rather not bring that into play for this game.
2. The reason i voted no lynch right off the bat is because i am not use to this 2 week long days format and i figured i could take the temperature of the group and see how fast the responses are before actually voting but i didnt want to be caught with a no vote if a majority was reached very quickly.

Okay, I'm willing to believe this is newbtown, but Jin, this is two posts without any real content. I asked you what you thought of the two wagons that are developing. What do you think of them.

Also you really don't need to worry about a lynch anytime soon. Usually, especially on day 1, we'll use most of that 2 week period even if the game keeps on moving quickly.

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I guess i am a little offput that everyone seems to gravitate towards bandwagons. I have always found bandwagons suspicious. I hope that answers the question for you oddmusic. If it doesnt, i cant really elaborate on either of them since it doesnt seem like there is any substance to the bandwagons, just people piling on.

It's an answer. It's not a good one though, TBH. Have you gotten anything off of them at all? It doesn't have to be a read on doom or Deathstar, it can be something on the people who are voting one of them. Just some sense that you're actually scumhunting and not just sitting around refusing to give an opinion.

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OK Transcend, I want to know now as well. Why is Deathstar scum?

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Transcend just appears to be trolling. He's definitely a better candidate for scum. Let's vote him instead of just asking questions.

VOTE: Transcend

Yeah, I can get behind this.

VOTE: Transcend

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HOLY **** This is how Transcend plays it's NAI calm yourself.

Interesting. Can you link some games?

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HOLY **** This is how Transcend plays it's NAI calm yourself.

Interesting. Can you link some games?

Can you look yourself when it's just a click away
I've known him for a year if anyone know he's early game it's me
This is how he plays
Deal.
With.
It.

Yeah, but that wouldn't allow me to be lazy. I like being lazy.

Looked through a couple of his games. This looks a little less productive than what I saw there, TBH.

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Listen, i have not played any games with you all and from an outside perspective it seemed you were trying to defend a fellow mafia member. If this is how you play early game then i understand and i just need more experience with everyones play style.

Okay, this is the third (I think?) time that Jin has appealed to his lack of experience. This is starting to give me scummy vibes. Anyone else?

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OH GOD I MISSED RVS
I really like the interaction between mariar and transcend. She keeps on protecting transcend in a manner not far from masons protecting each other.
Or scums protecting each other; I'm just leaning on the first one. Mariar said (jokingly?) in #30 that she's voting her mason partner and now she's defending him. The interaction is actually really towny to me.

The only reason that I'm quoting this is that I feel pretty comfortable saying that Maria was joking about Transcend being her Mason partner. Don't openly draw attention to masons. You're either scum and rolefishing, or you're town, and playing against your wincon by alerting scum to a potential mason team.

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Okay, I read through 120 six or seven times and I've still got no clue what Transcend thinks he's found.

That being said Transcend is starting to look town to me. Now that he's actually started giving reads and posting content, I think the stuff he's saying is coming from a town mindset. The only thing that bugs me is that he's changing read at the drop of a hat.

-------

I'm honestly not sure what to make of SAJ. I've seen scum do the whole "I'm new I don't know what's going on" defense before, but of course it's entirely possible that SAJ is new and doesn't know what's going on (at least, as far as MS goes). Some of the stuff he's said gave me scumvibes but I want an outside opinion on this one.

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Aristophanes…yeah I didn't give this the proper attention when Ari was around because I focused on other things (SAJ, doomfeathers, Transcend) but Ari's got 5 posts so far and none of them seem to be actually saying anything.

VOTE: Aristophanes

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7 pages of catchup? Alright, let's do this thing.

Transcend is probably town folks. Annoying town, but still town. And there might even be a method to his madness.

BK's entrance looks good to me. That being said I'm not sure if I can get a read off of anybody's interactions with Transcend. Like I feel like my opinion of them gets muddled because everyone looks reasonable in comparison.

Creature is making me nervous, but I'm not sure if I've got scumvibes off of him yet.

Sad's experience with EM doesn't explain why he's fishing for the only power roles in the game (masons). I get how on EM it makes sense to look for a cop, but shouldn't it be obvious that the same logic that makes that work on EM doesn't apply here? I don't mind the vote on Tojam though.

MiniDeathStar's readslist is fine. I don't get how Transcend got a vote off of that, TBH.

The argument between MDS and Transcend is NAI. Town gets frustrated just as easily as scum.

People are putting way too much wait on how individual posts are worded.

Maybe it's just because I hate any lynch that's not specifically about lynching scum but MDS's 275 is getting me nervous about her for the first time this game.

@Tojam (279): I always want to know why somebody is voting somebody out of RVS. It helps me sort the player doing the voting.

Okay, I don't like how Tojam just wandered in the game, did nothing but defend his first post, then wandered out and hasn't returned since.

Not sure what to make of Burgerking's entrance yet.

Okay, I'm willing to sort SAJ as town for now. When he's not talking about his lack of experience, he's actually making substantial posts and giving reads.

Note to self: page 13 contains nothing of any value. Ignore it from now on.

More seriously, Maria's been really touchy this whole game, but that's NAI, and I don't buy the white-knighting argument on it's own. I've got an null-read on her for now.

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Reads in no particular order

Townpile

Transcend
SAJ
BK201 – forgot to note it in my catchup but I did like his entrance
MDS – made me nervous at the end there, but the rest of her game is still town.

Nulls

BugerKing (need to see more)
Creature (I have no idea how to read this one)
MariaR (I think I need to see her interact with people who aren't Transcend…)
Aubrey (See the above)
Doomfeathers (Had an early scumread on this one, but there are better candidates now)

Scum

sad1492 – don't buy his excuse for Masonfishing
tojam – Dropped into the thread, said nothing, and left.
Ari – Leaving my vote here for now. Hasn't posted since I was last here and my reasons for voting him still stand.

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@ Aubrey who have you got for scum? It looks like you've got Transcend and Sad. Any good candidates for #3?
Also, I think your avatar is mesmerizing me.

@ Tojam: I'm gonna echo MDS's question to you. It was: Have you caught up yet? Do you have any reads?

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^ Yeah, I mean I see that argument, but it assumes that he knew he'd stand out by masonhunting. If he didn't because, as you said, he's not used to this site's meta the scum him might think that masonhunting would stand out less than he expected.

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Also, I guess I was wrong about your read on Sad. Do you have any scumreads besides Transcend right now?

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Transcend is probably town folks. Annoying town, but still town. And there might even be a method to his madness.

Sell me on this. Cause just looking at this sentence makes me think your town reading him just cause he is active.

Transcend has been very transparent with his thought process in a way that feels very town to me right now. I think Transcend has been overstating his cases to put pressure on people. He did this with SAJ, MDS and sad. The thing is, he backed off of all of those guys once they responded to pressure in a way he saw as towny…at least that's my take on what he's been doing. That strikes me as something town would do, whereas scum would probably have stuck his vote on SAJ or sad and not been flexible.

Look, I don't actually have any 100% reads town or scum. So I could be wrong. And I really don't get his case you you. But Transcend looks town to me right now.

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I don't like tojam pushing the Transcend wagon right now. Maybe it's just because I'm townreading Transcend right now, but he feels like exactly the kind of player that scum would push for a mislynch.

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In fact, VOTE: tojam

Ari's on V/LA so my vote's basically doing nothing stuck on him.

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Still having trouble getting reads off of MariaR. I don't like how she reacted to pressure, but a lot of it seems like very genuine frustration (NAI). But I think there might be something more to it.

Transcend/Aubrey has me rethinking my townread on Transcend. As in, I don't think I thought my Transcend read all the way through, and based it too much on tone. Either way 407 has me townreading Aubrey.

My early townread on BK201 looks good after his more recent posts. The motivation is behind them is usually transparent and they seem town motivated.

Creature's readslists look okay to me, but his other posts seem pretty lightweight to me. I'm starting to get a similar vibe off of him that made me vote tojam.

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Updated reads:

(This time actually from towniest to scummiest)

Townpile

BK201
Aubrey
SAJ
MDS

Nulls

Burgerking – Hasn't posted much yet, but I like fine what I've seen from him so far
Transcend – I'm still taking into account my earlier townread, it's just a lot less strong than it used to be.
Doomfeathers
Creature
MariaR

Scumreads

sad1492 – Hasn't posted anything yet to make me change my read
Ari – Waiting for that catchup
tojam – My vote feels well-placed

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Alright, I need to sort this slot:

@ Gamma/Aubrey sell me on Transcend scum.
@ Creature sell me on Transcend town.

p-edit: That's this game in a nutshell.

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@ Aubrey: What's the case on Burger? Has he done anything scummy that I missed?

(As a side note I'm not touching what just happened between Burger and BK. This is a game, and I don't want to deal with any of that shit here).

@ Creature: Sorry I was misreading your readslists and I thought you had him down as town.

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Scumreads
sad1492 – Hasn't posted anything yet to make me change my read
Ari – Waiting for that catchup
tojam – My vote feels well-placed

Why is my lack of catchup scummy?

I mean, people already answered this but I suppose since it's in response to me I should say something – you said you'd do it and you've been delaying. I know you're on V/LA but it's a pattern of meaningless activity with you.

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I'd just like to point out the aris wagon still sucks lol.

Holy butt monkeys riding a unicycle batman. We agree on something!

Bleh

I'm not so sure about Aubrey anymore.

Okay, it bugs me that you eased off on your scumread of Aubrey after he started agreeing with you.

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Got to p.23, realised that most of the discussion was about the use of an acronym and skipped to here. And you say I'm the one who posts crap.

Can you point to a post where you've actually added any content?

I'm being deadly serious here, I haven't seen one from you yet.

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Aubrey what's your read on Transcend right now? And what's your feelings been on Gamma thus far?

Also let's try attaching some of the pigs to the jet packs. That image is far too ridiculous not to make a reality.

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@ SAJ: What do you think of the replace-ins? What about BurgerKing?

What do you think of tojam's recent "activity"?

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Spoiler: Entirely off Topic

Yes, yes I did do an image search for "pig with jetpack".

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OK Transcend is echoing and his only vote that had reasoning was actually the vote on my slot, he's scum
Aubrey is very likely town
VOTE: Transcend

nvm gamma's scum again

If this isn't the the definition of OMGUS, I have no idea what is.

That's NAI as far as I'm concerned but still, what are you doing Transcend?

p-edit: Okay I will have to look at that later. I still stand by the OMGUS comment though.

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Also accusations of backpedalling are kind of rich coming from Transcend considering how much his reads change all the time

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Alright, maybe if I bold people's names they'll answer my questions. I used to do stuff like that. Why did I stop?

@SAJ

: What are your thoughts about Burger King? Also, since he's been grilling you what's your read on Aubrey right now.

@Aubrey

: What makes SAJ's empty activity different from tojam's?

@mhsmith

: Why haven't you voted anybody yet? Why have you retained Deathstar's vote on sad1492 when you said you think sad is ok?

To answer the question I directed at Aubrey for myself, I can still read SAJ's activity as newbtown, whereas tojam's seems more like what's called "active lurking". That's just how I see it, and every time SAJ says something like "I'm here, I just don't have anything to say" it gets harder to credit.

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Okay, tracked down your quote on tojam:

All that being said, why would Toejam offer his life when Maria is getting shat on for doing it by me, and when he really isn't under fire at that given time? Yes the lil guy has 2 voters on his ass, but is that enough to really attempt the damsel in distress play as scum? Unlikely. Reads more like a lazy townie. Could totally be wrong here, but that is what it reads as to me.

Problem is, I can't tell what you're referring to exactly. When did tojam "offer his life"? I just don't get what you're talking about here honestly.

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And I don't think he's been flying under the radar, he seems to be trying to be proactive.
He's a decent townread for me.

Now let me question you good sir. Where exactly are you seeing him as trying to be proactive?

I think that may have been the wrong word actually, I like the way he is progressing, I tried to sum it up in one word and I think I failed. It's just, his posts seem to have really brought some eyes to him and I don't get how you can say "flying under the radar" with that.

The main thing I'm townreading is his awkwardness: it feels unscripted, which is towny.

I think tojam takes too much upon himself

I think tojam takes too much upon himself

What do you mean?

Your statement that you are the hardest to read, but I don't think that's necessarily the case, and you say you'd be willing to be lynched because of that. It's not your fault if people can't sort you.

I disagree, obviously, but this read and follow-ups on by Gamma Emerald on tojam all feel logical and towny to me. I've been having trouble sorting that slot, so Gamma can be in my townpile for now.

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I have read up and as far as Burger King goes i dont even know where to point my finger when reading him. It seems like he is pointing fingers at people that point fingers at him. It all seems like retaliatory posts and weird reads that i cant see how he arrived at.

I guess if i had to post an updated scumlean list then it would be Tojam and Burger King. My mini scumlean suspects would be BK and Ari, i am currently reading through BK and will post my thoughts on him.

I sort of agree with your read on Burger though I wouldn't go so far as to scumread him for it. He's another poster like Transcend TBH. Difficult to read because so much of what he's posting feels really random.

Did you ever finish up with BK?

[oddmusic]

I've been away, like many here in the US I'd imagine, dealing with election stuff. Back to scumhunting!

Lol at people calling me and burger random posters when we're the two most obvious town in the game

Okay I'm wrong Oddmusic is prob the most obvtown

But still

Okay, since I was the one who called you random I just have to respond. Your reads are all over the place. You push someone for a bit, often for stupid reasons, declare them as obviously scum, then arbitrarily decide that they're town. And I think I'm the only one who ever called you random, so it's not people, and you can stop feeling so persecuted, I'm not going to lynch you today either way.

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i make one image post and all of a sudden im "another poster like Transcend"

also can people stop fake quoting me pls *looks at secret agent jin*

Nah, you just read kind of erratic to me. I don't think I even was thinking about the image when I made that post.

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Dunnstral just keeps on sort of posting. I don't get where the vote on Aubrey came from, I

really

don't get where the vote on Transcend came from.

Also, yes Dunn your predecessor (Ari) did have a wagon on him, albeit briefly. It kind of went away when he stopped posting. It was, at various points me, Doomfeathers (Flubberslot), Creature and BK. It wasn't much of a wagon but it did happen, it was there.

[oddmusic]

Just a reminder we have already played this game for a week.
Also Doom replaced out good luck bruh
VOTE: tojam although you're not my strongest scumread I'd like some pressure on you

Sad, that's not pressure. I actually see voting for pressure as scummy seen as it never actually works.

This reads scum vs. scum to me. Sad finds a very weak reason to vote his scumbuddy who is currently the leading wagon (I think?). Tojam points it out, which is odd because tojam has barely bothered to actually defend himself at all this game.

And on a side note, voting for pressure is not scummy. Claiming to be voting for pressure before the target has had a chance to react is scummy because the target knows its not genuine and it's basically just an excuse to jump on the leading wagon.

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I feel okay about Flubber right now. I don't have a strong read on him but it's leaning town right now.

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Honestly sounds like the kind of mistake I would make. What did you think about that wagon then, since Transcend asked.

[oddmusic]

I think mhsmith said he'd be back sometime today…

[oddmusic]

Just a reminder we have already played this game for a week.
Also Doom replaced out good luck bruh
VOTE: tojam although you're not my strongest scumread I'd like some pressure on you

Sad, that's not pressure. I actually see voting for pressure as scummy seen as it never actually works.

This reads scum vs. scum to me. Sad finds a very weak reason to vote his scumbuddy who is currently the leading wagon (I think?). Tojam points it out, which is odd because tojam has barely bothered to actually defend himself at all this game.

And on a side note, voting for pressure is not scummy. Claiming to be voting for pressure before the target has had a chance to react is scummy because the target knows its not genuine and it's basically just an excuse to jump on the leading wagon.

You're assuming that this was coordinated and that toe knew what sad was doing when sad voted him. I doubt this is something that scum would have set up in pre-game chat.

Interesting. but if this is true, wouldn't Toe vote him in order to create even more distance between the slots? Again interesting thought, but I don't know how likely it is. Then again, Toe seems to refuse to vote period unless it is on himself.

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Wait, my whole response to that quote got lost. The hell?

I basically said that I don't think this is something where tojam necessarily knew exactly what sad was doing. It wasn't coordinated. Just two people who know that the other is scum interacting. That's why I thought that the fact that tojam bothered to defend himself was odd, as if there was something fundamentally different about that particular vote.

[oddmusic]

@ Tojam

Please answer this question:

This does raise a good question, why in the hell is Toe not voting anybody?

[oddmusic]

VOTE: Flubbernugget

This vote, dropped on a guy Burger hadn't even talked about to that point in the game deserves more attention. Especially since I don't think Burger's posted since.

[oddmusic]

OK, I'll be honest, this game is giving me a headache. I have no idea what Dunnstral is even doing. Transcend has claimed that half the game is definitely, 100% scum at this point. Burger sort of drops in random posts. Tojam doesn't seem to be bothering.

READS! Because IDK what else to do at this stage.

Townies

Aubrey
BK201
SAJ

Townleans

mhsmith (left over townread from the MDS slot, don't have much on smith right now)
Flubbernugget – looks good so far, had a null read on the doomfeathers slot
Gamma Emerald – People are scumreading him? I've thought his posts have been on point really

Null

Creature – Liking him better as time goes on, still not sure how to sort this one
Transcend – My gut is telling me town. My brain is telling me that my gut is not very good at scumhunting.

Scumleans

Dunnstral – I just…don't…even…This is basically the Ari slot read + Dunnstral's disruptive behavior.
Burger King – Fairly contentless and god that vote was shitty

Scum

sad1492
Tojam

I'd be willing to vote any of Dunstral/Burger/sad/tojam, with obvious preference for the last two.

[oddmusic]

Gamma Emerald (L-3): Transcend, Creature, Dunnstral, tojam2

Oh dear god it's all of my favorite posters (ok, Creature's OK).