Micro 657: Vanillite Mafia (Game Over!)

Postie · Post Post #131 (isolation #0) » Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:14 pm

Skimmed the game; Dark Horse is probably town, can't tell if algebra is newbtown or newbscum. More to come in a few hours.

Postie · Post Post #140 (isolation #1) » Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:47 pm

As much as I hate posts like 110, 122, and 126, and can see why he got run up, overall I'm leaning newbtown on algebra now. I feel like I can sort-of see a thought process behind his posts maybe? The fact he isn't making a show of it and instead refuses to elaborate on anything feels like stubborn town. I do not endorse this wagon.

VOTE: ThinkBig

This is much better.

Postie · Post Post #145 (isolation #2) » Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:17 pm

In post 141, ThinkBig wrote:Why did you vote for me?

Guess.

Serious request.

Postie · Post Post #147 (isolation #3) » Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:20 pm

Nope.

Postie · Post Post #151 (isolation #4) » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:55 pm

In post 150, shannon wrote:@Postie how can you tell that Alegebra is 'newbie town' but scum read Think Big, who has the same level of newbiness?

Because algebra feels like he's actually thinking and just being obstinate, whereas Think Big feels like he isn't thinking at all due to the fact he's saying a lot of things without forming any opinions.

Postie · Post Post #152 (isolation #5) » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:58 pm

In post 30, shannon wrote:
In post 28, Dark Horse wrote:Creature how are you townreading shannon
If I had to guess it's because I played my first scum game with him, so he knows what to look for (I'm new here, only 2 scum games so far).

Hey shannon, can you give me more details on this? Would would Creature have picked up on that makes sense to townread you for?

Postie · Post Post #154 (isolation #6) » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:16 pm

Fair enough.

In post 63, Creature wrote:Nice busy question btw.

Creature, what made you think Aero's question was a "busy question"?

Postie · Post Post #159 (isolation #7) » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:33 pm

I'll get to answering some of your questions in a bit but

In post 158, Aeronaut wrote:Postie, Shannon are both town as fuck by the way

Why?

Postie · Post Post #162 (isolation #8) » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:51 pm

In post 160, Aeronaut wrote:because it would have been really easy for you to come in and say "Yeah I agree Algebra is scum" and just intent to hammer, and most people in this game wouldn't suspect you for it

What makes you think I'm not scum whiteknighting?
And why are you townreading shannon so strongly?

Postie · Post Post #165 (isolation #9) » Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:33 pm

In post 164, Aeronaut wrote:Because again... it makes so much less sense for scum-you to come in and derail the lynch, or at least it does from my perspective.

Why?

In post 164, Aeronaut wrote:I've also seen your scum play, and this doesn't feel like it.

Elaborate.

In post 164, Aeronaut wrote:Posts like this:

Give me an example from before you gave your read on her please.

Postie · Post Post #170 (isolation #10) » Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:05 pm

In post 167, Aeronaut wrote:Because I wasn't here really and this game is filled with newbies who wouldn't care either way. You're scum, you don't want to prolong the day, yea?

Unless it gets me towncred. If enough people are gunning for an algebra lynch already, he'd just end up being lynched another day anyway so what does it matter to me?

In post 167, Aeronaut wrote:From what I saw in word sneak, you as scum took a backseat role and let the town kind of hash each other out. Here you're making a show of yourself.

Backseat role? Were we reading the same game? I deathtunneled the shit out of my partner.

In post 167, Aeronaut wrote:105. Pretty good example from what I'm talking about. New scum doesn't make that post.

Aero, that's a goddamn basic list of safe as fuck reads, with a sentence of justification for each. I'm not sure what I'm missing here, but you should probably point it out to me. You're better than this.

Postie · Post Post #171 (isolation #11) » Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:10 pm

In post 169, Aeronaut wrote:Postie why in the world do you think DH is town?

His posts read as brazen, ballsy, and unfiltered. Certainly not the kind of attitude I'd expect a fumbling newb like him to be able to fake.
I'm as baffled by your scumread on him as you allegedly are of my townread.

Postie · Post Post #176 (isolation #12) » Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:23 pm

In post 172, Aeronaut wrote:Because why allow there to be time for interactions to happen with you? We're in a 7p game. You'd think scum would be aiming to end the day quick and pretty much rob town of any sort of real interaction. I feel like that'd cripple town?

Sure, but... you don't think that'd make me look scummy as all heck?

In post 172, Aeronaut wrote:I mean I don't know what game you're reading, but we're on page 7 right now. If you expect a full reads list with detailed analysis at this point, I don't know what to tell you? Shannon has contributed the most to the game in my opinion out of any other player at that point

You're completely sidestepping the issue. You said 105 was a good example of "what you were talking about" without saying what that meant, and that it made you townread shannon. I pointed out that I couldn't see anything special whatsoever about that post. Now you're saying "well, there's nothing

bad

about the post and shannon has contributed a lot" which completely misses the point.

So I'll ask again:

what's so special about post 105

? Why does it make you townread shannon?

Postie · Post Post #179 (isolation #13) » Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:46 pm

In post 177, Aeronaut wrote:Please tell me where I ever said there was nothing bad about the post? Again, what are you talking about?

That seemed to be the implication of this...?

In post 172, Aeronaut wrote:I mean I don't know what game you're reading, but we're on page 7 right now. If you expect a full reads list with detailed analysis at this point, I don't know what to tell you

You couldn't tell me what you liked about the post and instead shrugged your shoulders and went "whelp were you

expecting

something good this early?". Considering I asked you about why the post made you townread shannon, yes, yes I was expecting you to be able to point out why the post was good.

In post 177, Aeronaut wrote:As I've said, 105 is a reads list where one wasn't really required. It's pretty good considering the amount of information the game had on page five. If that same reads list was posted in twenty pages, I'd probably have a different viewpoint.

So it's just the fact that it was unprompted? I guess I'll make a note of that for any future games with you where I'm scum; early readslist = instatowncred, sweet.

Postie · Post Post #180 (isolation #14) » Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:49 pm

In post 178, Aeronaut wrote:105 is a great example of what I was talking about because while most of the people in this game were sitting back twirling their thumbs, shannon is putting out posts like that that actually give any sort of stance.

Activity is not alignment indicative.

Postie · Post Post #185 (isolation #15) » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:02 pm

In post 181, Aeronaut wrote:Shannon, even though every single other player is lurking the hell out of this, continues to post her thoughts on players and on the game and makes a decent effort to get people to become more active.

Where is she encouraging activity?

In post 181, Aeronaut wrote:If this were a more experienced player, I'd say yea, that's easy to fake. But I just don't see someone who is new

"Mafia Scum"
She has enough experience. Join dates mean very little.

Which reminds me...

In post 173, Aeronaut wrote:What are you talking about? Dark Horse has been around since 2010?

Missed this earlier. Note his player title please - Mafia Goon. That in combination with the general "I barely know what I'm doing" vibe he gives off makes him firmly a newb in my eyes.

In post 181, Aeronaut wrote:to the game going against the grain and continuing being the center of attention. It doesn't make sense to actively get the game going again from a scum perspective. It shouldn't take you five posts to understand that.

What part of that post went "against the grain"? What part of it made her the center of attention? What part of it opened her up to criticism or wasn't safe as fuck?

Postie · Post Post #186 (isolation #16) » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:02 pm

In post 184, Aeronaut wrote:Are you trying to say Shannon is scum?

Absolutely not.

Postie · Post Post #194 (isolation #17) » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:36 am

In post 187, Aeronaut wrote:Specifically I'd say 45, 60, 77, 113

This still has nothing to do with 105.
(And in all of those posts except the last one she doesn't engage with any player, instead complaining about the lack of content while not producing any useful content herself. Jfc.)

In post 187, Aeronaut wrote:That's your opinion, Postie. Join dates mean a lot to most of us on-site. New players follow the same patterns almost every time. You don't have to believe me, but we're not lynching Shannon today. Or TB for that matter.

You don't magically get better if you sign-up and don't play any games, just because a certain amount of time has elapsed. Join dates would only mean something if they indicated how much experience someone has, which they don't; that's what their player title does, since it's a reflection of how many posts they've made in games.

In post 187, Aeronaut wrote:Ok.... Then if you really believe that join dates mean very little, why are you trying to use that to tell me that DH is town?

I'm not? I specifically mentioned his player title.

In post 187, Aeronaut wrote:And, barring the argument that his player title is at all Alignment Indicative, lets be less general here. You think that he's "bold and brazen." What about my other points? Why ignore those?

Didn't have the time or energy. Will get to that now.

In post 187, Aeronaut wrote:His tunneling on shannon to look busy, and the reasoning was so paper thin there anyway. He refused to give any sort of reads and just knee jerk attacked me when I gave a lick of pressure. I'm sorry, but he's screaming scum to me. Saying "Oh he's bold and brazen and scum don't do that" is just factually untrue.

I don't care how shaky his reads or reasoning were, the point is that he was committed to them and willing to charge headfirst into attacking shit and make himself the center of attention (didn't you townread shannon for that?), despite the heat he got for it. I'd expect scum!DH to be far more cautious, especially considering he doesn't have a huge amount of experience on the site yet (and no, that's not me making an argument based off his player title; it simply strengthens my point).

In post 187, Aeronaut wrote:she gave stances while your slot had posted an RVS vote and nothing more

I didn't realise everyone else producing sub-par content makes anyone else's content magically towny.

Postie · Post Post #195 (isolation #18) » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:37 am

In post 189, shannon wrote:@Postie are you scum reading Aeronaut?

In post 189, shannon wrote:What on Earth were the past few pages about then? The only thing I can come up with is that you are scum reading Aero and think that his read on me is fake. Is that what's going on?

Bingo.

Postie · Post Post #196 (isolation #19) » Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:01 pm

In post 174, Aeronaut wrote:And I'm not getting any sort of brazen or ballsy from his posts. What he's done today is tunnel Shannon for what seemed like little to no reason, and then gave us one of the thinnest lines of reasonings possible (see 89). And then he backpedalled and basically jumped on the next viable wagon which was algebra

To address your "I don't see how he's being ballsy":
1) Putting someone to L-1 early and without warning is ballsy for newbscum
2) His tone in general is consistently aggressive - see posts like 44, 53, 84, 87, etc.

Postie · Post Post #197 (isolation #20) » Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:03 pm

Oh yeah and I spotted this on my first readthrough but forgot about it:

In post 87, Dark Horse wrote:There you go, I was wondering how long it was going to take for you to come out and actually say that I'm scum.

I don't have the words to explain it right now but this statement screams town to me.

Postie · Post Post #198 (isolation #21) » Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:23 pm

I also like the way DH approaches Aero:

In post 69, Dark Horse wrote:lol @ Aeronaut thinking I'm tunneling just because I'm actually trying to put some effort wrt a scum read

In post 83, Dark Horse wrote:Aeronaut what are your reads

In post 84, Dark Horse wrote:And if you answer "nothing solid" then you have no right to say that i'm tunneling

In post 87, Dark Horse wrote:There you go, I was wondering how long it was going to take for you to come out and actually say that I'm scum. Trying to discredit me only to vote algebra was a bad move

Creature's town, thinkbig's slightly town

So I asked you this before, why is shannon town? It's annoying that instead of answering this you've tried to discredit my push instead. The fact that you asked me to clarify the hammering stuff, and then then tried attacking me for clarifying hammering stuff was terrible.

You can see his line of thought go
acknowledge Aero's criticism while thinking it's dumb -> become suspicious of Aero's motives and start questioning him -> openly and aggressively criticise Aero -> start to openly call into question Aero's motives

It's three dimensional without being showy.

Postie · Post Post #204 (isolation #22) » Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:26 pm

Hi Wyvernite!

Postie · Post Post #205 (isolation #23) » Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:26 pm

In post 200, Aeronaut wrote:...I know. I never said it did? These are posts that are about her activity, not 105. What are you talking about?

When I asked where she was encouraging discussion, I meant in post 105, because you said you liked it for encouraging discussion.

In post 200, Aeronaut wrote:Ok, but in most of her posting, she seems to be very genuine to me, just as you somehow think that the handful of shitposts that Algebra calls an ISO is somehow genuine.

That doesn't mean much to me unless you explain

why

she sounds genuine. I can explain why algebra sounds genuine, but I want to focus on sorting you and getting your DH read straightened out.

In post 200, Aeronaut wrote:AGAIN, she could have very easily been much less active and allowing the game the die instead of continually posting.

Sure, but posting nothing of significant value isn't really much better and could easily be scum busywork.

In post 200, Aeronaut wrote:As far as I'm concerned, they're both new.

Someone with 1000+ posts and 7 completed games is not a newbie!

In post 200, Aeronaut wrote:What? So shaky reads don't matter...? ok, well can you show me where at all he "committed" to them? The point i'm trying to get across to you is that he
didn't
commit to them. He had exactly one read he was pushing very hard, which was Shannon. He went with the "X is scum, vote them please" without reasoning early game schtick that almost always comes from scum. He seemed very sure of this read but then cited like ONE LINE OF ONE POST and said "oh this sounded too cautious" which is absolute bullshit.

The point is, though, that he IMMEDIATELY backtracked. As soon as the shannon wagon goes nowhere, he immediately backtracked and was like yeah I can get behind Algebra and just jumped on there. He hasn't really pushed her much after that. Not to mention, when you showed up Postie and voted ThinkBig, he immediately 180'd his townread on him and immediately started showing shade on him and calling him scum. If anything, Dark Horse is going with the flow as much as possible.

He committed to to his stances in the moment, even if he didn't do so in the long term. I'll look into how his reads evolved a bit more though. Meanwhile, I'd like your thoughts on 198.

Postie · Post Post #215 (isolation #24) » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:23 pm

In post 206, Wyvernite wrote:I'll do a read over again tomorrow when I get the chance, it's hard to process everything when it's as quick as lackluster as I feel it currently is. I'd like to see more content from EVERYONE, no one is really explaining reads to the full effect that I'd like. Or really sharing hard reads at all. I get that it's early into the game, but you have to start somewhere.

There's plenty to comment on so far. Do some ISOs, tell me what you think of my reasons for townreading DH, etc.

In post 206, Wyvernite wrote:@postie With all the attention you've been giving to aero, do you still find TB to be your topscum?

Yes.

Postie · Post Post #220 (isolation #25) » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:47 pm

In post 208, Aeronaut wrote:I'll try to articulate why it sounds genuine if you do that for me with Algebra.

I'll explain my algebra read soon (I kind-of have to, he's at L-1), but until then I'd like it if we could focus on the issue at hand and pursue one line of question at a time before dragging unrelated stuff into this and causing an even bigger explosion of arguing.

In post 208, Aeronaut wrote:You've also given me no points on why my reasoning on DH is wrong.

[internal screaming]

In post 208, Aeronaut wrote:Ok, please and thank you tell me all the places in which Algebra's posts have any significant value.

Stop dragging unrelated things into this. I'm asking about your shannon read; my read on algebra has nothing to do with that.

In post 208, Aeronaut wrote:it reads like she has a pretty logical progression

And this makes her towny because...?

In post 208, Aeronaut wrote:I mean maybe not by your standards, but by mine they are. Looking back at my seventh game, I was scum and had zero idea what to do.

Fair.

IIRC shannon has a completed scum game where she was townread for being able to explain her thoughts well though, so I need to look into that.

In post 208, Aeronaut wrote:On reads, are you saying that you really think it's townie to abandon reads on a whim just because a wagon is forming?

It isn't towny or scummy in itself. It depends on the strength of the reads and the usefulness of the wagon, among other things.

Postie · Post Post #221 (isolation #26) » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:54 pm

In post 211, Aeronaut wrote:
It's three dimensional without being showy.
Please explain to me what you mean by this.

I'd expect newbscum, or anyone with DH's jumpy/aggressive character, to fake a push like this in a much more two-dimensional way by quickly/immediately blowing up at you and calling you scum. Instead, DH displays more of a gradient of suspicion, and does so in quite a subtle way rather than one which makes a show of his thought process.

Postie · Post Post #226 (isolation #27) » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:09 pm

Aero, it's completely natural for a towny to be suspicious of someone's motives for making a push on them. You know you're town, and especially when you're new you tend to be arrogant and assume everyone else should know it too, so you end up being intensely suspicious of anyone who questions that fact because

why are they trying to lynch a towny dammit

. This is what I'm seeing with DH, and the way he's going about it feels incredibly genuine because of the fact I can see several layers of thought and paranoia; I don't see why it matters if that's within a short span of time or not. I don't see him being able to fake this whole thing as scum.

I'll respond to the rest of this stuff in the morning.

Postie · Post Post #236 (isolation #28) » Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:38 pm

For the record, I think Wyvernite's entrance sounded forced as hell too, but I find that a lot of newbies have a tendency to sound a bit forced so I'm hesitant to call him scum for it. I'm scumreading the slot by PoE though.

@shannon

- Why are you townreading Aero?

Idk. My gut says Aero's town but the last time I gut townread Aero he was scum so... someone halp.

I'll get round to doing a case for town!algebra and responding to other stuff once my headache has died down a bit.

Postie · Post Post #238 (isolation #29) » Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:54 pm

The fact that both of my top townreads seem to be generally on the same wavelength as me makes it even more important to me not to let them get lynched. If we can get a solid townblock to form I reckon we could steamroll scum this game.

Postie · Post Post #242 (isolation #30) » Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:24 pm

Got any reads for us, Wyernite?

Postie · Post Post #244 (isolation #31) » Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:13 pm

If I were scum in Wyvern's position, and I had to make a list of everyone that I most and least wanted dead, that would pretty much be it.

Gj Wyv

Postie · Post Post #245 (isolation #32) » Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:14 pm

Also yeah I said I'd be following up on stuff but I'm tired now. >.<
Tomorrow I'll have something up for sure though.

Postie · Post Post #264 (isolation #33) » Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:30 pm

Aero stuff I missed:

In post 222, Aeronaut wrote:It's four in the morning and I need to act in two shows tomorrow so I need to pick this up in the morning; Postie, the reason I'm asking you about your algebra reads in certain places is because I'm trying to show you that you're applying a double standard. You can't be asking me about every single thing I've said about Shannon and Dark Horse when you've got so much unexplained stuff on your own. I want to know why you think algebra is town, really. You had said before I think that Algebra reads to you as genuine. I feel like if you're going to ask me how I think Shannon feels genuine, you should have to answer that same thing about your read, especially since I'm scum reading that player and would like to hear why exactly you oppose that lynch

I suppose that's fair; I just thought it would confuse things further to discuss it before we managed to get somewhere with everything else.

In post 224, Aeronaut wrote:I think a big reason we have such opposite reads is because I guess we see things as differently indicative. I don't remember if you're originally from offsite or maybe just have different experiences and play differently, but usually abandoning reads to jump onto a popular wagon is seen as scummy almost all of the time.

I would agree if we were further on in the game, but DH's shannon push seemed more like something designed to get the game moving. See something, attack it, see where things go. That's typically how I play in early-game too.
It doesn't feel unnatural to me to abandon such a push and jump onto something else if you get frustrated with it and/or it doesn't seem to be producing the results you want.

In post 224, Aeronaut wrote:"logical progression" or a clear thought process and actions is something that's almost always seen as very town-oriented; scum have a lot harder time explaining their reasoning for doing things or sometimes there's not a clear motivation or thought process involved because they're making up justifications as they go along.

I disagree strongly here. It's not hard to fake reasons for your reads or pushes; what's hard to fake is several layers of thoughts, and thoughts that aren't superficial. I don't care how clear or logical someone's thoughts are, I care about how much it looks like they're genuinely scumhunting rather than just pretending to.
It's true that being clear and logical are generally seen as towny, but I don't agree that's correct and I think it's one of the most dangerous assumptions you can make in Mafia. I've seen plenty of players who were perfectly clear and logical as scum.

Postie · Post Post #265 (isolation #34) » Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:32 pm

Now, about algebra...

Firstly, I don't think his jump onto the ThinkBig wagon was opportunistic. His vote wasn't anywhere where it created meaningful pressure at that point, so it made sense to move it somewhere that would.

If you actually read through his ISO, you should also notice that his stances, as limited as they are, remain very consistent and aren't swayed by what everyone else is doing in the thread. And that's my first reason for tentatively townreading him; while everyone else does whatever they're doing, he's just kinda doing his own thing and making his own way from A to B while ignoring them. His thought process is very independant from everyone else's.

I don't think that's enough in itself to warrant anything other than a slight townlean for the moment though, because this isn't something I think is too tricky for scum to keep up this early on in the game given he only has two solid reads.
It's

definitely

something to keep an eye on for later though, because he seems "locked into" the reads he has; he seems to essentially be only telling us about the reads he's somewhat sure about, as evidenced by 94. If town, I expect him to add more to his pool of "sure" reads as time goes on, and that's a strategy that would fall apart fast if he were scum.
Imagine slowly building up your reads and then - oh no, the gamestate's changed, these reads don't work to your advantage any more! You've got to change them. But given that you've spent the game building them up slowly, how do you do that without it looking utterly fake?
It's not sustainable. You

need

to be flexible as scum, and algebra isn't.

Anyway,

In post 137, ThinkBig wrote:
In post 136, algebra wrote:Thinkbig is a scum trying to get by with surface level thinking
Care to elaborate?

In post 138, algebra wrote:No

This exchange is what cements my townread.
algebra is given a great opportunity to give us a reason to think it would be good for us to keep him alive - bear in mind also that

he is at L-1 here

- and he doesn't take it. What's more, he chooses to respond in an incredibly frustrating and uncooperative way. What motive does he, as scum, have to respond in a way that is more likely to get him lynched when it's perfectly easy for him to throw us a bone?
As town, it's easy to get frustrated and stubborn in such a situation and say "well if town lynch me they lynch me, that's on them, I tried my best."
As scum? Fat chance.

Postie · Post Post #266 (isolation #35) » Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:35 pm

I wouldn't hate a Wyv lynch, but I think my preference is still for a ThinkBig lynch right now, just because algebra has been latched onto ThinkBig all game so a scumflip there basically clears him.

Postie · Post Post #268 (isolation #36) » Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:41 pm

Postie · Post Post #271 (isolation #37) » Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:52 pm

In post 270, Wyvernite wrote:I mean as you stated earlier, a scumread, or tunneling is not indicative of alignment.

???

Also, what do you think of my 265? You apparently don't have a read on algebra, so this is a good time to talk about why you do or don't buy my reasons for thinking he's town.

Postie · Post Post #273 (isolation #38) » Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:03 pm

Wyvernite is at L-1

Postie · Post Post #275 (isolation #39) » Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:20 pm

In post 274, Dark Horse wrote:I feel like there are times where it seems like he has switched his reads (He said that he hated one of creature's posts, but then later said he agreed with shannon that creature was town),

I can't find this anywhere in his ISO.

In post 274, Dark Horse wrote:and I don't like the fact that he basically admitted to sheeping shannon's reads.

If you're talking about 260, I believe he was saying he townread shannon for having similar reads to him (which, btw, is a terrible reason to townread someone), not that he was sheeping her. I don't see why sheeping someone would be scummy anyway though.

Postie · Post Post #277 (isolation #40) » Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:39 pm

In post 276, Dark Horse wrote:Shit I meant Aeronaut not creature. I'm talking about this post

In post 191, algebra wrote:
In post 190, Aeronaut wrote:Postie is just trying to sort me, which is fine. I'd rather her realize I'm town at this point so that we could work together, but not much is gonna get done at this rate
I really hate this, looks really fake

Oh, okay. I don't see where he later says he's townreading Aero though?

In post 276, Dark Horse wrote:It feels like he's trying to piggyback off of a townie's reads, especially considering how little reads he's given publicly

I don't know how you're getting that from

In post 260, algebra wrote:Shannon is townlean because we share reads

Postie · Post Post #288 (isolation #41) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:43 am

As of 285 I strongly oppose a Wyvernite lynch. More to come.

Wyv, if you don't want to be today's lynch you'll vote ThinkBig.

Postie · Post Post #293 (isolation #42) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:54 pm

I don't see the utility in Wyv flipping his read on Aero. It looks very much like he doesn't care about making allies that will oppose his lynch; he's managed to make an enemy of half the town by now due to the way he's evolved his reads on people. And he hasn't been actively pursuing another wagon that's likely to go through instead of his own.

The paranoia about "silencing" pings me as

extremely

town also.

In post 269, Wyvernite wrote:When I was talking about people "silencing" this is exactly what I was talking about, and it coming from one of my top towns is very unsettling to say the least.

In post 285, Wyvernite wrote:You're pushing scum on me for bringing up people who aren't being focused currently. You are trying to get me to not talk about them.

Postie · Post Post #294 (isolation #43) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:00 pm

Also note that Wyv is producing content we can read him off, whereas ThinkBig is likely going to continue lurking. I'd rather have ThinkBig out of the picture now than later and at the expense of someone who is actually giving us things to work with.

Postie · Post Post #296 (isolation #44) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:17 pm

In post 295, Dark Horse wrote:What? All of the active townies have expressed a willingness to lynch him. It's not like was more enemies for him to make by changing his reads.

Maybe, but he's screwing over his chances of making any allies.

In post 295, Dark Horse wrote:He's now looking at algebra, the other person "up for lynch today". That looks like pursuing another wagon to me

He's not done anything to convince anyone to vote someone who isn't him. That's the bottom line.

Postie · Post Post #300 (isolation #45) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:39 pm

In post 299, shannon wrote:I think Wyvern needs to go today.

Why?

Postie · Post Post #305 (isolation #46) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:02 pm

In post 285, Wyvernite wrote:You're pushing scum on me for bringing up people who aren't being focused currently. You are trying to get me to not talk about them.

This.

Postie · Post Post #309 (isolation #47) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:30 pm

I'm townreading everyone else who isn't shannon. I've explained why I think algebra, Dark Horse, and Wyv are town. If you're town you know you are. That leaves shannon and TB, and shannon is a) producing content, and b) not going to be lynched today.

Postie · Post Post #311 (isolation #48) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:37 pm

You could say something similar for my scumread on TB. My case for town!algebra-DarkHorse-Wyv

is

my case for scum!TB. And if we're choosing between Wyv and TB, then my case for town!Wyv alone is my case for why TB should be lynched instead.

Postie · Post Post #313 (isolation #49) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:18 pm

In post 303, shannon wrote:Super trying to avoid bussing to save his own wagon.

Hey shannon, if this is what you believe, shouldn't you be okay with us lynching TB today?

Postie · Post Post #317 (isolation #50) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:13 pm

In post 314, Dark Horse wrote:Not only is wyv signifigantly scummier

I'm going to have to strongly disagree here.

In post 314, Dark Horse wrote:but a TB lynch gives us next to nothing.

If we lynch him today and he flips scum:

algebra is cleared
we're left with a pool of 4 people to choose between to lynch, all of which are actively posting

If we lynch him today and he flips town:

we eliminate an unknown who was going to be lynched eventually anyway
we don't have to keep get frustrated over the fact that he's not doing anything

If we don't lynch him today:

we'll likely have to decide whether to lynch between him or algebra tomorrow, and if we choose wrong we lose
that's not a choice I trust town with please let's not go there guys

Postie · Post Post #318 (isolation #51) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:20 pm

In post 317, Postie wrote:
we're left with a pool of 4 people to choose between to lynch, all of which are actively posting

(From each townie's own PoV, of course; technically we're choosing between 5.)

Postie · Post Post #319 (isolation #52) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:22 pm

Like I can already see the entire game going down the drain from here if this lynch goes through.

Postie · Post Post #320 (isolation #53) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:23 pm

In post 318, Postie wrote:(From each townie's own PoV, of course; technically we're choosing between 5.)

Wait no I was right the first time.

Postie · Post Post #323 (isolation #54) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:32 pm

Excellent. Feeling better about townreading you.

Also thinking about that scenario more closely - town has to choose between two lurkers. Even with a TB townflip, we'd at least be choosing between a lurker and someone giving us content to read them off.

Postie · Post Post #325 (isolation #55) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:53 pm

1st Tier Lynchpool:

ThinkBig

⁴ /

shannon

⁴
2nd Tier Lynchpool:

Aeronaut

³
Townpool:

Dark Horse

¹ /

algebra

² /

Wyvernite

²

Spoiler: Number Key

Postie · Post Post #328 (isolation #56) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:08 pm

In post 326, Dark Horse wrote:Algebra wouldn't be confirmed town and we're absolutely not treating algebra as such

You think algebra would decide at the beginning of the game to tunnel his partner?

Postie · Post Post #329 (isolation #57) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:12 pm

In post 327, Dark Horse wrote:You have wyvern as more town than aeronaut? Yean
[...]
No

If Wyvern is scum here he has zero understanding of basic scumplay and absolutely no common sense. Why isn't he trying to push through a lynch that isn't him? Why is he attacking some of the only people who stand any chance of being convinced to not lynch him?

Postie · Post Post #332 (isolation #58) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:25 pm

He hasn't been pushing ThinkBig though. All he's done is expressed minor suspicion of him, and the same with algebra. He has done absolutely nothing to try and make a lynch happen on either of them.

Postie · Post Post #333 (isolation #59) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:29 pm

In post 330, Dark Horse wrote:Considering how noobish his play has been I honestly wouldn't past him. What's important is that were not disregarding the scummy things that he's done just because of that.

There's playing like a newb, and there's playing borderline anti-wincon. No one decides at the start of the game "no matter what happens, I'm going to try and get my partner lynched on day 1 because why not".
And what has he done that's scummy?

Postie · Post Post #335 (isolation #60) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:42 pm

In post 334, Dark Horse wrote:Because he doesn't have to. Both of the lynches of substance behind them. Especially in the case of thinkbig's lynch, there's nothing he needs to do because of how hard you're gunning for it.

That's not how things were for the vast majority of the time he was sitting on his hands and letting things happen.

In post 334, Dark Horse wrote:In addition to everything that put him in the spotlight, he's gone back to lurking while occasionally making a comment that he has no intention of following up. That's scummy as hell.

Why?

Postie · Post Post #338 (isolation #61) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:58 pm

In post 336, Dark Horse wrote:Badically as soon as he got put at L-1 he comes out with a new readlist where he doesn't like algebra and is not as sure as he is with thinkbig. That's clearly self preservation.

Not if he doesn't do anything with those reads. He didn't even say he was scumreading either of them. IIRC the most we got was a FoS.

In post 336, Dark Horse wrote:It's shows that he's very delibarate with his lurking. He could post more (As shown by what he posted when he was at L-1), but chooses not to, as long as he's not on the spotlight.

I didn't see him producing any more content at L-1? As I've already pointed out in 265, he was incredibly uncooperative at L-1.

Postie · Post Post #339 (isolation #62) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:59 pm

In post 337, Dark Horse wrote:He actually had one post in between that, but it wasn't much. He basically abandoned his reads when he was put on the chopping block

What? All he said at L-1 was that ThinkBig was scum, which he had already said before. That's completely consistent.

Postie · Post Post #341 (isolation #63) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:11 pm

In post 340, Dark Horse wrote:Should we be treating your scum reads lightly because they all come from process of elimination?

I don't know what that has to do with anything.

In post 340, Dark Horse wrote:He started posting a lot more stuff like "I don't get why I'm scum" when people started attacking him. Then he went back to lurking

Why do you think this is scummy? If he's telling the truth about being mislynched in past games, then it makes sense as a reaction.

In post 340, Dark Horse wrote:I was talking about wyvern

Oh, right. Again, he may have changed his reads, but he didn't push for either of them to be lynched and seemed very unsure of himself, so he got nothing out of it.

Postie · Post Post #343 (isolation #64) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:30 pm

In post 342, Dark Horse wrote:Just because he hasn't explicitly said "I think they're scum" doesn't mean we shouldn't consider the fact that those are his scummiest reads. Should we ignore your read on thinkbig becuase you just have him listed as "Not Scum"?

Firstly, the people I have listed as "not townreads" but "not scummy" are in fact my scumreads by PoE. Secondly, the bottom line is that

I'm pushing for them to be lynched

.

In post 342, Dark Horse wrote:Because it shows he's deliberately lurking and trying to coast

Deliberately lurking, yes, but why does that equal coasting?

In post 342, Dark Horse wrote:You were telling him "If you don't want to be the lynch, vote thinkbig" after he posted his reads list. What more did he have to do?

Who cares? I'm judging him off his content before that, of which there is plenty. You may also notice that he

hasn't voted ThinkBig

.

Postie · Post Post #346 (isolation #65) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:14 pm

DH, he wasn't pushing for anyone's lynch

all the time before I started saying he was town

, which was a long time and a lot of posts. As scum he should have been doing that from the moment he replaced in, or at least within a couple of posts.

In post 344, Dark Horse wrote:Do you not think coasting is scummy?

I'm not saying it's not scummy, I'm asking why you think deliberately lurking means he's coasting. Perhaps we're working under different definitions of coasting.

Postie · Post Post #348 (isolation #66) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:25 pm

In post 347, Dark Horse wrote:Do you think it was townie that wyvern didn't vote either of us when he said we were scum?

No, but I don't think it was scummy either. What does this have to do with anything?

In post 347, Dark Horse wrote:I use coasting to mean "trying to have as little presence as possible by barely contributing," which is what I feel like algebra's doing.

I disagree that that's what he's doing. I think he's simply sticking with his principle of only sharing "major" thoughts, and/or being lazy.

Postie · Post Post #350 (isolation #67) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:09 pm

I feel like we're not really getting anywhere here. Whatever. It's fine. Wyv isn't going to vote himself, and hopefully another towny will get onboard the TB train.
When ThinkBig flips scum I want shannon speedlynched. TIA.

Postie · Post Post #356 (isolation #68) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:21 pm

In post 353, ThinkBig wrote:And when I flip town, I want you lynched.

Ahahahahahahahaha

Postie · Post Post #357 (isolation #69) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:32 pm

In post 354, shannon wrote:- You're assuming that say TB or Algebra aren't going to be night killed if we lynch Wyvern today.

This was hilarious also.

Postie · Post Post #360 (isolation #70) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:38 pm

In post 358, shannon wrote:Nightkilling Postie will make me look bad so I'll have to do things another way. :[

FTFY

Postie · Post Post #366 (isolation #71) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:56 pm

Wyvernite is at L-1

(again)

Postie · Post Post #370 (isolation #72) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:18 pm

The point I'm making is that sitting back and letting himself get lynched is stupid as hell. The

only

reasonable way he cold have expected to not be lynched up until I started defending him was by pushing another viable wagon through, and he didn't do that. And what's this about him being on the defensive? Where is making an effort to defend himself?
What I'm saying is that

he wasn't doing anything to prevent his own lynch

.
Maybe he's scum that's given up, but I doubt that considering the amount of effort he's putting into the game wrt to explaining his thoughts.

Postie · Post Post #371 (isolation #73) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:20 pm

Fuck this, Aero's back in my scumpool.

Postie · Post Post #374 (isolation #74) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:24 pm

In post 239, Aristophanes wrote:
VC 1.7
D1 will end
Nov 17/16
or in
(expired on 2016-11-17 07:30:00)

No premature hammers please. I want the chance to finalise my thoughts after how messy everything's gotten.
Also TB promised a catch-up, and I want to read it.

Postie · Post Post #378 (isolation #75) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:29 pm

It's not you simply disagreeing with me that's the problem, Aero. I townread you earlier for not mindlessly staying on the Wyv wagon and considering the possibility of moving over to TB; I figured scum!you would want to stay on Wyv. Now that you're stating intent to hammer on Wyv my paranoia is back with a vengeance.

Gonna get some sleep now. Please no hammers while I'm away.

Postie · Post Post #390 (isolation #76) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:42 pm

In post 368, Aeronaut wrote:besides the argument that it's going to be hard to deal with TB and Algebra tomorrow, I really don't agree with most of your defense of Wyrv right now. And that argument doesn't even really hold up anymore, because TB is back here posting right now.

Yo Aero, about this...

Postie · Post Post #391 (isolation #77) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:51 pm

Aero, I need you to explain to me why TB should be kept alive today, and what that means for day 2. How, exactly, are we going to figure out whether or not TB should live or die tomorrow?

Postie · Post Post #398 (isolation #78) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:33 pm

What if he just makes another half-assed post like 138?

Postie · Post Post #399 (isolation #79) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:34 pm

Wait I meant 135.

Postie · Post Post #403 (isolation #80) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:57 pm

Yeah, but what if it's a readslist with incredibly lazy reasoning like that?
I really don't want TB to scrape through today with something along the lines of "X is town for saying a lot of detailed things; Y is scum because they're lurking."

Postie · Post Post #405 (isolation #81) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:12 pm

In post 243, Wyvernite wrote:Postie - The amount of questions that are asked here, seem to be keeping everyone busy, and when prompted about her own reads we get that: it'll either "come later" 205, "it feels/sounds towny/genuine" 194 197 198 in these posts there is also the notion that aggressive = good which I don't find to be true at all. There are also really no thoughts of her own regarding her own reads. All of the pressure I see on aero, he responds well to imo, and gives no real substance back. Everyone seems to be townreading her for asking questions and sorting aero, but I honestly don't see it.
Dark Horse - I like a lot of points that aero brings up here (see: 200 211) Which I haven't liked any of his defense of. I think Postie's townreads are just an attempt to relieve pressure from her partner, which makes them both look worse in my eyes. I also believe that postie seems to be chainsawing for dark in response to aero's pressure

In post 269, Wyvernite wrote:Again, to use your argument, I didn't know there was a read restriction, where I can only focus on the people that are currently being wagoned? That seems scummy as all hell, my read on you is quickly flipping.
[...]
She town reads you for the "aggressive/firey" playstyle you've personified thus far, where I scum read you for it, it's that simple.

In post 287, Wyvernite wrote:ISO'ing TB is a bit annoying, as most of his posts are earlier into the game asking very simple/basic questions that feel like he's asking just for the sake of asking, and doesn't really feel like anything. I don't really understand his reasoning behind anything that he's posted, besides the questions. I guess I was excusing it because of how early into the game it was. I'll be more critical of him moving forward, as I don't see any of his posts being town-indicative. If TB ends up being mafia I would definitely say algebra is town, or is bussing incredibly hard for a d1 micro game. I think someone has already mentioned that though. I've got a paper to write so I can't go back to find out who it was that said it originally.

In post 382, Wyvernite wrote:While I appreciate having someone defend me, it also makes me a bit suspect. Mainly of Aero and Postie. Aero just agreed with postie, and then 2 pages later, disagrees with her, and is waffling on his vote for me. Postie defending so hard would make me somewhat weary of a pocket, but it seems it's indicative of her play, atleast this game, seeing as she's hard defending people who she thinks is town, and finding scum by POE.

Yeah no it wasn't.

Postie · Post Post #408 (isolation #82) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:29 pm

Right, but it wasn't "literally that". You're being incredibly reductionist.

Postie · Post Post #411 (isolation #83) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:03 pm

He was last online three hours ago, apparently.

Postie · Post Post #420 (isolation #84) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:46 am

In post 417, Wyvernite wrote:Make mafia great again, and lynch TB, and may God bless Micro 657.

Amen.

[eagle noises and machine-gun fire]

Postie · Post Post #422 (isolation #85) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:10 pm

In post 395, Aeronaut wrote:and your reasoning why

Hammer this sucker.

Postie · Post Post #425 (isolation #86) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:18 pm

I can tell you now: give reasons.

Postie · Post Post #427 (isolation #87) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:19 pm

Then how did you make your readslist? Pull names out of a hat at random?

Postie · Post Post #429 (isolation #88) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Okay, so were there specific things people said that persuaded you to read people are certain way? If so, what were they?

Postie · Post Post #432 (isolation #89) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:29 pm

Or he's just scum that's given up.

Postie · Post Post #434 (isolation #90) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:33 pm

Alrighty. I'm fine waiting like 2 hours or so. Don't MafiaScum and drive.

Postie · Post Post #436 (isolation #91) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:57 pm

No. I can easily see scum!ThinkBig realising he has nothing and just asking for tips for how to look town for next time.

Postie · Post Post #437 (isolation #92) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:58 pm

And if TB isn't scum then the team's shannon-Aero in which case we've already lost.

Postie · Post Post #439 (isolation #93) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:07 pm

Because nearly everyone is inexplicably townreading them so they we stand little chance of lynching one them, let alone both.

Now get back on topic and answer

In post 429, Postie wrote:Okay, so were there specific things people said that persuaded you to read people are certain way? If so, what were they?

the question.

Postie · Post Post #441 (isolation #94) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:09 pm

In post 434, Postie wrote:Don't MafiaScum and drive.

Postie · Post Post #450 (isolation #95) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:56 pm

In post 444, Aeronaut wrote:Postie, asserting that Shannon and I are scum together just because we're being townread makes negative sense

Where did I say this?

Postie · Post Post #453 (isolation #96) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:01 pm

In post 449, ThinkBig wrote:I do not like how postie is flip flopping her reads. She has been flip flopping more than a hamburger on a grill; which does bother me a great deal.

Dude the only read I've gone back and forth on has been Aero, and even there it's not like I've gone from calling him super town to scum; I've clearly had trouble sorting him all day.

Postie · Post Post #454 (isolation #97) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:03 pm

In post 444, Aeronaut wrote:because we're being townread

Quote me where I said this specifically.

Spoiler: I didn't.

Postie · Post Post #456 (isolation #98) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:08 pm

I like the part where you forget there's a question in between those two posts that I'm answering.

In post 438, ThinkBig wrote:Why is it that we have already lost if that's the case?

Postie · Post Post #457 (isolation #99) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:10 pm

In post 353, ThinkBig wrote:
In post 350, Postie wrote:I feel like we're not really getting anywhere here. Whatever. It's fine. Wyv isn't going to vote himself, and hopefully another towny will get onboard the TB train.
When ThinkBig flips scum I want shannon speedlynched. TIA.
And when I flip town, I want you lynched.

In post 421, ThinkBig wrote:

Postie

Aeronaut

Dark Horse

Shannon

Algebra

Wyvernite

In post 452, ThinkBig wrote:I am beginning to have an FOS on postie. Her evolving scum reads, poor logic, and seemingly forgetting that she wrote something less than an hour ago.

This is the worst read progression I've ever seen.

Postie · Post Post #459 (isolation #100) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:13 pm

I'm denying saying that I think Aero and shannon are scum

because

most people are townreading them. What I

am

saying is that if they're the scumteam, we're very unlikely to win because most people are townreading them.

Postie · Post Post #460 (isolation #101) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:14 pm

You know what, forget it. Just explain how on earth

In post 457, Postie wrote:
In post 353, ThinkBig wrote:
In post 350, Postie wrote:I feel like we're not really getting anywhere here. Whatever. It's fine. Wyv isn't going to vote himself, and hopefully another towny will get onboard the TB train.
When ThinkBig flips scum I want shannon speedlynched. TIA.
And when I flip town, I want you lynched.
In post 421, ThinkBig wrote:

Postie

Aeronaut

Dark Horse

Shannon

Algebra

Wyvernite
In post 452, ThinkBig wrote:I am beginning to have an FOS on postie. Her evolving scum reads, poor logic, and seemingly forgetting that she wrote something less than an hour ago.

this happened.

Postie · Post Post #464 (isolation #102) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:31 pm

In post 461, Aeronaut wrote:Postie do you think Shannon and I are scum together? Please don't avoid the question.

I think any combination of you/shannon/TB is possible. I see a you-shannon team as possible but unlikely.

In post 463, Aeronaut wrote:And you also left out the part of that where you're already lining up lynches if TB flips town.

Why's this scummy? I have a scumpool and I intend to lynch in it.

Postie · Post Post #467 (isolation #103) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:45 pm

In post 465, Aeronaut wrote:So if TB is town, your unlikely scenario is 100% confirmed?

No, but I think it's unlikely enough that I'm wrong about DH/algebra/Wyv that I'm basically going to treat it as that.

In post 465, Aeronaut wrote:Because it sounds like you already know what alignment he is.

Don't you think if I were lining up lynches I'd pick someone other than the two people that nearly everyone is townreading as my next lynch target? Pushing a Wyv lynch through, for example, would be fairly easy. What would be even easier would be to lynch Wyv now and then push a TB lynch through tomorrow, which is exactly why I want TB lynched today.

Postie · Post Post #471 (isolation #104) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:32 pm

Because I have reasons for going back and forth on my read that I've explained. TB's read on me jumps backwards and forwards in a jarring way that doesn't make any sense, and he hasn't been able to explain.

Postie · Post Post #472 (isolation #105) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:42 pm

Aero, you told TB to give a full readslist with reasons, and he has failed to do that, yet you're

still

giving him leeway. But you were very happy to state intent to hammer on Wyv at a moment's notice.

Give me one good reason not to think you're scum stalling out your partner's wagon.

Postie · Post Post #474 (isolation #106) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:44 pm

1st Tier Lynchpool:

ThinkBig

⁴ /

Aeronaut

⁴
2nd Tier Lynchpool:

shannon

³
Townpool:

Dark Horse

¹ /

algebra

² /

Wyvernite

²

Spoiler: Number Key

Postie · Post Post #477 (isolation #107) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:50 pm

Thank fuck.

Postie · Post Post #484 (isolation #108) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:59 pm

My thoughts haven't changed. If the team is Aero-TB and he hammered Wyv, we would probably still have a TB lynch tomorrow, but with less towncred in it for him.

Postie · Post Post #490 (isolation #109) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:04 pm

I'm not sure I buy that TB will flip town given that he lurked through me questioning him, but then instantly showed up as soon as he was hammered.

Postie · Post Post #496 (isolation #110) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:06 pm

I'm probably just going to ignore this thread until we get a flip.

Postie · Post Post #531 (isolation #111) » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:24 pm

In post 530, Aeronaut wrote:I don't get that.

Postie · Post Post #532 (isolation #112) » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:34 pm

In post 528, Aeronaut wrote:Postie, what are you reads now that TB flipped town.

I think at least one of you or shannon is scum, probably both. I am however more open to considering I could be wrong on one of my other reads now that there's more at stake; I basically need to hear more from everyone.
I have other thoughts but it would be anti-town for me to go into them right now.

In post 528, Aeronaut wrote:Are you scum?

No.

Postie · Post Post #533 (isolation #113) » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:36 pm

@shannon

- why are you voting me over Wyvern?

@Aero

- what's your read on me and how did you get from your initial heavy townread on me to where you are now?

Postie · Post Post #535 (isolation #114) » Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:05 pm

In post 534, Aeronaut wrote:Hard townread on Algebra and Wyrv makes zero sense from your perspective.

Why? I covered both in detail.

In post 534, Aeronaut wrote:The push on Thinkbig with minimal reasoning besides POE... etc.

This is literally how I play the game.

Postie · Post Post #537 (isolation #115) » Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:18 pm

In post 536, shannon wrote:I'm voting Postie over Wyvern because I think that Postie is the one pulling the strings and Wyvern will flail without Postie.

Which one of us is scummier individually?

Postie · Post Post #539 (isolation #116) » Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:21 pm

shannon, how convinced are you that the team in me-Wyv? Have you considered other partners for either of us and if so, details please?

Postie · Post Post #542 (isolation #117) » Sat Nov 19, 2016 7:58 pm

In post 540, shannon wrote:I also notice that you haven't issued a denial,

I, Postie, solemnly swear I am not scum who worked to divert my partner's lynch on day 1 of Micro 657.

Better?

Postie · Post Post #543 (isolation #118) » Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:02 pm

In post 541, shannon wrote:@Postie how are you feeling about a Wyvern lynch today?

Not feeling it right now but I'm a bit unsure about everything at the minute so I'm gonna re-read and want Wyv to make some more wallposts and then we'll see how things are.

Yeah I'm fence-sitting on the gamestate a little whatchagunnodo

Postie · Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:50 am

Hey shannon, if I'm not scum then who is?

Postie · Post Post #562 (isolation #120) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:51 pm

In post 557, shannon wrote:Just saw Aero's most recent wall, looks towny enough that Postie is my sole focus in the firing line.

Please explain.

In post 558, Aeronaut wrote:the fact that Wyrv has been absolutely silent today

Please explain.

In post 558, Aeronaut wrote:mixed with the kill

Please explain.

Postie · Post Post #563 (isolation #121) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:52 pm

Responding to Aero's wall in a few.

Postie · Post Post #565 (isolation #122) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:21 pm

In post 564, shannon wrote:I think strongly that you are scum and less strongly that you're town and he's pulling the wool over my eyes.

What makes you think that those are the only options?

Postie · Post Post #567 (isolation #123) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:59 pm

In post 553, Aeronaut wrote:
In post 215, Postie wrote:
In post 206, Wyvernite wrote:I'll do a read over again tomorrow when I get the chance, it's hard to process everything when it's as quick as lackluster as I feel it currently is. I'd like to see more content from EVERYONE, no one is really explaining reads to the full effect that I'd like. Or really sharing hard reads at all. I get that it's early into the game, but you have to start somewhere.
There's plenty to comment on so far. Do some ISOs, tell me what you think of my reasons for townreading DH, etc.
This is a null interaction, first off.

If it's null, why mention it? Are you drawing any conclusions from this? Did someone suggest it

wasn't

a null interaction? What are you trying to say by pointing this out?

In post 553, Aeronaut wrote:
In post 236, Postie wrote:For the record, I think Wyvernite's entrance sounded forced as hell too, but I find that a lot of newbies have a tendency to sound a bit forced so I'm hesitant to call him scum for it. I'm scumreading the slot by PoE though.
Here is her soft defending him, but then calling him scum anyway? She mentions that his entrance is forced, and she'd be right. Then says it's NAI. Ok. But then she's scum reading him by POE?

The question marks seem to indicate this confuses you. What about "I disagree that X is a good reason to scumread this player, but I scumread them regardless because of Y" is confusing you?

In post 553, Aeronaut wrote:Here, she's moved to "not hating" a Wyv lynch. Still pushing ThinkBig on POE, but mentioning that she still would lynch Wyrv. Granted, Postie here says that Thinkbig flipping scum would clear algebra; Ok, so since TB has flipped Town,
@Postie[/b[ what do you think of Algebra now?

Why would TB's townflip change my opinion of algebra? I said that I'd be able to draw conclusions from a TB scumflip, not

any

flip.

In post 553, Aeronaut wrote:
In post 293, Postie wrote:I don't see the utility in Wyv flipping his read on Aero. It looks very much like he doesn't care about making allies that will oppose his lynch; he's managed to make an enemy of half the town by now due to the way he's evolved his reads on people. And he hasn't been actively pursuing another wagon that's likely to go through instead of his own.

The paranoia about "silencing" pings me as
extremely
town also.
In post 269, Wyvernite wrote:When I was talking about people "silencing" this is exactly what I was talking about, and it coming from one of my top towns is very unsettling to say the least.
In post 285, Wyvernite wrote:You're pushing scum on me for bringing up people who aren't being focused currently. You are trying to get me to not talk about them.
This is what doesn't make sense to me now looking back; Why does Wyrvernite changing his read on me suddenly make him town? Literally what happened is that he hard townread me for no reason besides my posts being "detailed". I called him out on it, and *suddenly* he was scum reading me for disagreeing with him. Somehow, some way, that is reasoning for Postie's excuse to hard-townread him for the rest of the game.

I like the part where you ignore that I gave

It looks very much like he doesn't care about making allies that will oppose his lynch; he's managed to make an enemy of half the town by now due to the way he's evolved his reads on people.

three

And he hasn't been actively pursuing another wagon that's likely to go through instead of his own.

other

The paranoia about "silencing" pings me as
extremely
town also.

reasons.

In post 553, Aeronaut wrote:Not doing anything to convince anyone that someone else is scum, is not Town-play, and not a real argument.

It's not pro-town, certainly, but anti-town = scummy is fallacy and you know it. The question should be whether it: a) helps or hurts his wincon as scum, and b) whether the answer to a) matches his perception of the action. When you're scum, not pushing for someone else to be lynched while you are being lynched is blatantly detrimental to your wincon, and therefore more likely to come from a town mindset because it's unlikely that someone would knowingly play against their win condition.

In post 553, Aeronaut wrote:Nothing on here made/makes any sense besides the content part.

Why?

In post 553, Aeronaut wrote:And now you're still hard defending him. This doesn't make sense.

Why?

Postie · Post Post #568 (isolation #124) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:06 pm

shannon, please tell me how in the hell you're townreading Aero's wall. He describes my actions, but he doesn't follow that up with a single. Fucking. Conclusion. It's all well and good to stand around going "this confuses me", but it doesn't advance the gamestate, doesn't show you're putting thought into the game, and overall reeks of busywork.
Being confused about someone doesn't make them scum and saying a lot of words about being confused doesn't make someone town.

Postie · Post Post #570 (isolation #125) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:43 pm

Ugh too tired to break things down into quotes, so:

1) Great. Does town

not

interact in unimportant/null ways with each other? "Scum do this" means nothing if town also frequently do said thing.
2) I outright called him scum. Much fencesit. Very undecide.
3) "If a, then b." =/= "If a, then b. If not a, then c."
4) Right, but you implied the quoted was the only reason I was working off, which is a misrep.
5) He had stances though; they just weren't ones that would lead to an alternate lynch. You're misrepping again.
6) You overestimate my paranoia and underestimate how far I will go to defend my townreads.

Postie · Post Post #573 (isolation #126) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:57 pm

In post 571, Aeronaut wrote:why won't you give me a read on algebra

algebra is likely town for the reasons I outlined on day 1 but the flip says nothing about his alignment because

In post 570, Postie wrote:"If a, then b." =/= "If a, then b. If not a, then c."

Postie · Post Post #574 (isolation #127) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:59 pm

In post 572, Aeronaut wrote:Your argument isn't that he had stances though, it's just that he didn't want to vote and somehow that makes him town

My argument is that he didn't do anything to try to prevent his own lynch. Your counterargument was that doing nothing is pro-scum because it means you don't need to take stances. Since he took stances, your counterargument fails.

Postie · Post Post #578 (isolation #128) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:50 pm

And there it is.

See after how perfectly the nightkill fit into the Wyv/Postie scumteam narrative (DH ended the day with "lynch Wyv, then Postie if Wyv flips scum"), it was fairly obvious what argument scum were going to make today. shannon pushed the theory a little, but you, Aero...

In post 558, Aeronaut wrote:Honestly, the fact that Wyrv has been absolutely silent today, mixed with the kill makes me feel like he makes the most sense to lynch today.

In post 577, Aeronaut wrote:He's definitely scum. When he flips scum, please lynch Postie tomorrow.

Your line of thinking fits with the narrative that scum have tried to construct with the nightkill 100%.

VOTE: Aeronaut

Postie · Post Post #582 (isolation #129) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:59 pm

You think a scumteam of me/Wyv would make a kill that incriminated both of us on the off chance that a townie would construct their entire argument for today around it in a scummy fashion

and

I'd be believed after the inevitable cries of WIFOM?

Please.

Postie · Post Post #583 (isolation #130) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:59 pm

If anyone wants a case beyond that here it is:

Find me a single sentence in Aero's ISO that's indicative of a town mindset.

One.
Single.
Sentence.

Postie · Post Post #586 (isolation #131) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:34 pm

Boy your "probably town but I don't know I need to think about it more" read on me sure flipped around to hard scum fast with no discernible thought process as to how you got there.
You know when I did that thing where I pointed out all the ways I could see DH's read on you develop in a three-dimensional way? This is the exact opposite of that.

Postie · Post Post #587 (isolation #132) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:36 pm

I'm done here. Need sleep. If I woke up tomorrow to find Aero had been quicklynched I would be okay with that.

Postie · Post Post #589 (isolation #133) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:41 pm

Oh, huh, I guess you didn't. You never said I had gone down to a null read so I assumed your not-sureness was just you being a bit unsure of your original townread.
Anyway I'm out.

Postie · Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:00 pm

In post 591, shannon wrote:Am I correct that if we get it wrong today, that's game over? (I.e. we're 3:2 now?).

Yup.

Oh yeah and your argument for me being scum was that I hard-defended someone right? I was going to address that.
Basically, it's a playstyle thing and therefore NAI. Examples can be found here and here.

Postie · Post Post #598 (isolation #135) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:10 pm

;______;

Postie · Post Post #599 (isolation #136) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:11 pm

What do you make of...?

In post 594, Postie wrote:Oh yeah and your argument for me being scum was that I hard-defended someone right? I was going to address that.
Basically, it's a playstyle thing and therefore NAI. Examples can be found here and here.

Postie · Post Post #602 (isolation #137) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 5:38 pm

In post 599, Postie wrote:What do you make of...?
In post 594, Postie wrote:Oh yeah and your argument for me being scum was that I hard-defended someone right? I was going to address that.
Basically, it's a playstyle thing and therefore NAI. Examples can be found here and here.

Postie · Post Post #604 (isolation #138) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:37 pm

In post 603, shannon wrote:Postie, if you and Aero aren't the scum team, now is the time to convince me of it.

What? If we're the scumteam then what's the problem with voting him?

Postie · Post Post #617 (isolation #139) » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:13 am

It's okay Vedith, Aero's scum.

Postie · Post Post #618 (isolation #140) » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:16 am

In post 613, algebra wrote:VOTE: Wyvernite
Scum team is in wyv aero Shannon

So why are you voting when you aren't sure you've hit scum and we're in Lylo? Unless you've ruled out an Aero/shannon team somehow?

Postie · Post Post #641 (isolation #141) » Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:22 pm

In post 624, Vedith wrote:Postie is confirmed scum to everyone now.

I'm assuming you meant town?

And holy shit I didn't even realise it was 3 to lynch. This could have ended disastrously.

In post 624, Vedith wrote:
In post 160, Aeronaut wrote:because it would have been really easy for you to come in and say "Yeah I agree Algebra is scum" and just intent to hammer, and most people in this game wouldn't suspect you for it
What I don't like here is that Aero has already decided that Alg is town by posting this. He doesn't take in consideration that Postie or Shannon are the buddies of Alg

This is really good point.

In post 624, Vedith wrote:(Strongly suggests Aero and Shannon team here)

I'm not sure I understand.

In post 624, Vedith wrote:
In post 437, Postie wrote:And if TB isn't scum then the team's shannon-Aero in which case we've already lost.

In post 437, Postie wrote:And if TB isn't scum then the team's shannon-Aero in which case we've already lost.

In post 437, Postie wrote:And if TB isn't scum then the team's shannon-Aero in which case we've already lost.

What's this about?

Postie · Post Post #642 (isolation #142) » Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:23 pm

Oops I forgot there was another page.

Postie · Post Post #643 (isolation #143) » Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:33 pm

Vedith, convince me you aren't bussing real quick so I can pretend you're conftown.

Postie · Post Post #646 (isolation #144) » Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:42 pm

Why would I do that when I could have just hammered Vedith and won?

Postie · Post Post #651 (isolation #145) » Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:58 pm

I get that. I just mean, tell me why it's implausible you'd be bussing in this situation or something. I don't see myself voting you at any point this game but I wanna decide what strength townread I can give you for my own records.

Postie · Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:56 pm

Yeah, good enough.

Spoiler: Ranking

I'm ready to end the day, I guess. Looks like me or you are dying tonight; don't screw this up, algeboy.

Postie · Post Post #705 (isolation #147) » Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:58 pm

I really like this set-up. Was fun. Congrats, scum!

Postie · Post Post #715 (isolation #148) » Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:56 pm

Thanks for modding! I really liked this set-up. I hope someone runs it again sometime.