New Year's Eve Masquerade Ball - [Game Over]

[Shadow_step]

Maria, we on right?

[Shadow_step]

Now, with that said, I don't believe any town lady should so blithely accept a dance from any gentleman. This is a chance to weed out a villain in our midst, or force the villains to dance together at the least.

Speaking of which...2 mafia gentlemen, one lady? Vice versa? Anyone have any thoughts on what's more likely?

Agree on not doing quick accepts.

Wrt setup, I'd say 2/1 or 1/2 are basically equally likely. I don't know if fakegod would be willing to do a 3/0 or 0/3 but I'd guess it's pretty unlikely at the very least.

I'm pretty sure its randomised. Otherwise it would be bastard. What's with the useless posts.

[Shadow_step]

For the morons who don't bother reading anything.

1. Game name
   - New Year's Eve Masquerade Ball
   
2. Flavor
   - Summer Waltz
   
3. Number of players
   - 17
   
4. Are hydras allowed (Yes/No)
   - No
   
5. Your modding experience
   - Summer Waltz
   
6. Current modding commitments
   - None
   
7. Reviewers
   - None
   
8. Reviewers agreed to FINAL version? (Yes/No)
   - Yes
   
9. Backup or co-mod
   - GuyInFreezer
   
10. Backup or co-mod's experience
    - Many including multiple Large Theme games
    
11. Backup or co-mod's commitments
    - Mini Theme
    
12. Is it possible your game has any of the following: cults, mid-game alignment changes, moderator lies that cannot be reasonably anticipated (for example, Godfather, Tailor, Miller, Ninja, and mechanics like that are generally fine. Telling someone they are a reflexive doctor when they're actually a PGO is not), secret win conditions,

    un-divulged non-randomness in player role/alignment generation, direct moderator influence during the game? (Yes/No)

    - No,

Making it 3/0 in whatever gender's favour would surely making it bastard.

[Shadow_step]

GE, What part of there is no undivulged non randomness in alighment generation don't you understand ?

[Shadow_step]

For the morons who don't bother reading anything.

1. Game name
   - New Year's Eve Masquerade Ball
   
2. Flavor
   - Summer Waltz
   
3. Number of players
   - 17
   
4. Are hydras allowed (Yes/No)
   - No
   
5. Your modding experience
   - Summer Waltz
   
6. Current modding commitments
   - None
   
7. Reviewers
   - None
   
8. Reviewers agreed to FINAL version? (Yes/No)
   - Yes
   
9. Backup or co-mod
   - GuyInFreezer
   
10. Backup or co-mod's experience
    - Many including multiple Large Theme games
    
11. Backup or co-mod's commitments
    - Mini Theme
    
12. Is it possible your game has any of the following: cults, mid-game alignment changes, moderator lies that cannot be reasonably anticipated (for example, Godfather, Tailor, Miller, Ninja, and mechanics like that are generally fine. Telling someone they are a reflexive doctor when they're actually a PGO is not), secret win conditions,

    un-divulged non-randomness in player role/alignment generation, direct moderator influence during the game? (Yes/No)

    - No,

Making it 3/0 in whatever gender's favour would surely making it bastard.

Are you fucking high.

Manipulating random.org to force a non 3-0 would make it bastard...

That's what I'm saying doofus
Learn to understand English.

[Shadow_step]

Do you want me to break down sentence structure for you.

Because what you said is arguing against the possibility of a 3-0.

Pedit: @Shadow.

I was saying that it can't be a pre determined 3/0 or 2/1 or whatever. Which some people were assuming it could be.

[Shadow_step]

@mod my first post is asking Maria lol

[Shadow_step]

Jester has a point about Cerb.

[Shadow_step]

@mod my first post is asking Maria lol

Please use bold or it doesn't count.

Didn't know that sorry.

[Shadow_step]

Let's do this again

Maria, we grooving together right?

[Shadow_step]

Jester has a point about Cerb.

he really, truly doesn't.
did you read his post
it's literally an argument for pairing scum up with the IC

Have you played with Cerb before? He's as asset to town if he is town.

Not exactly thrilled with his pair choice because whoever Nahdia partners up with us going to get killed during intermission.

Bigger problem which I had was his asking the others how scum were distributed. Its an awkward, useless RVS post. How would any players know more than what he already knows?

[Shadow_step]

And why do you wanna pair up with nahdia and get killed during intermission?

[Shadow_step]

Not exactly thrilled with his pair choice because whoever Nahdia partners up with us going to get killed during intermission.

BUT NO FULL STOP.

so if this is the case, by your own logic

why in the nine hells would he do this as scum

if scum are going to shoot the IC pair during intermission

and the IC pair lives

that just makes the IC's partner look pretty damn scum, right?

this is, for the record, YOUR argument here

Wifom
Suck it

[Shadow_step]

I didn't imply he was town, I asked him why he'd do that if he is town(which was obvious but not for dumbfucks like parama).

[Shadow_step]

@mh I'm not sucking up to him. He is aware that I rate him highly and your opinion of him is invalid btw.
Newbies are the crap games. Those horrible fucks are impossible to read properly.

[Shadow_step]

Game will quiet down when players start dying anyway.

SS, you literally just decided to defend yourself with 'Wifom' and now you've chosen to backpedal into something else.

That was a reply to "if scum don't kill her it would mean he is scum"

Stop being awful

[Shadow_step]

Hey, you actually decided to respond! Look at that, did your scumbuddies in the scum PT tell you to do that?
Tell Jester to come out of there and start posting for me, I know she likes hiding from people who are scumreading her but this is just silly!

Ofc they did

[Shadow_step]

Parama gave up too easily.
Just scum try to set up mislynches.

[Shadow_step]

Yeah I'm just gonna ignore usless fucks like HS.

[Shadow_step]

@Cerb

But HS wasn't trying to set you up for a ML(?)

Parama on the other hand is scraping the barrel. Awful/weak cases ~= scum

[Shadow_step]

Parama gave up too easily.
Just scum try to set up mislynches.

Can this OMGUS be any more transparent though?

Can this opportunism be any more transparent though?

Notice I was okay with Parama until she just completely gave up.

[Shadow_step]

1880s called, they want their scum hunting tools back.
If omgus is the best you can do you should go back to playing newbies.

[Shadow_step]

Let's do this again

Maria, we grooving together right?

back off

i'm satisfied that HS is town btw

i accept your dance HS, but you still owe me the goddamn money and you're not getting out of it

Uhhh you accepted before I even arrived to the thread?

Well ok

Make me

[Shadow_step]

1880s called, they want their scum hunting tools back.
If omgus is the best you can do you should go back to playing newbies.

No queue has reached that number so I don't know what you're talking about.

It's a

YEAR

[Shadow_step]

@Cerb

But HS wasn't trying to set you up for a ML(?)

Parama on the other hand is scraping the barrel. Awful/weak cases ~= scum

I mean, any push on town is setting someone up for a mislynch. How is HS's "case" on me better than Parama's? Is it simply because one is on me and the other is on you, and you know your own alignment? I find both pushes equally suspect, and I'm surprised that you don't as well.

Possibly. It could be because I know I'm town.

[Shadow_step]

Shadow, the current proposal is that you're left out of the dance. Is there anyone you'd like to nominate as more-likely-scum-than-you, who we should consider instead? (And why)

Current proposal of 2/3 people? I don't give a crap.
I have something in mind which I discuss later.

[Shadow_step]

1880s called, they want their scum hunting tools back.
If omgus is the best you can do you should go back to playing newbies.

No, it's not my only tool, but yours was pretty obvious. Parama going quiet means literally nothing. It's been a couple hours since this game started, she could have just gone to do something else. Like, out of all infinitely more plausible explanations you reach for something that 1) can't be proven and 2) can't be defended against.

And honestly invoking the "I'm a lynchbait" defence this early in the game is just... idk. I don't like it.

Wtf? When did I say that I'm lynchbait?

[Shadow_step]

Gamma you're wasting your time. Maria is going to partner up with moi.

[Shadow_step]

Wifom
Suck it

again, no dancing with this guy, ladies

Agreed. He's a fuck boy

You again.

[Shadow_step]

Wtf? When did I say that I'm lynchbait?

You accused Parama of "setting up mislynches" and "scraping the bottom of the barrel". I'm pretty sure by that you meant yourself?

In this setup I say guys are free to ask whoever they want

But ladies should show restraint, knowing one of the guys gets lynched


Why did mds accept a proposal on page 1?

Human is right, I signed up for the game pretty much only because of Jester and because I was fangirling over masquerade parties earlier (totally unrelated but hell of a coincidence). We had planned that pairing all along.

I really don't get how you just don't understand simple stuff. /rant

Setting up mislynches has got nothing to do with whether the player is lynchbait or not.
Setting up MLs is throwing shade/making a bs case on someone to set them up for a lynch.

Google scraping the barrel. It means she's using a shitty reason to scum read me.

[Shadow_step]

If you wanna dance with someone useless like you said, choose gamma. Fine with that.
I thought it would be good hydra practise.

@Maria ^

[Shadow_step]

If you wanna dance with someone useless like you said, choose gamma. Fine with that.
I thought it would be good hydra practise.

@Maria ^

That was the main reason I wanted to dance in the first place...although that would have to mean you're town

Do you think I'm scum shadow you have been quite scared of me before the fact you're just wanting to partner with me right away is iffy

Nothing scummy in your ISO so far, I'm not really interested in dancing with anyone else.

[Shadow_step]

dawww
It's not scummy things that make me iffy you're just normally super paranoid you've legit said "This is towny but given it's Maria she can prob pull this off as scum"

see the problem?
Pedit: WHAT DUNN

Yeah if you're scum I'll figure it out eventually. Even if you ARE scum you can't be eliminated before the dance begins so you will ally with someone. Might as well be me.

[Shadow_step]

We are leaving out sickofit. Most useless slot ever.

[Shadow_step]

Scum gamma flailing like crazy.

Kagami can you actually tell me what's scummy about me instead of just claiming I'm scummy. Thanks

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: Gamma

[Shadow_step]

I don't need to convince you of something you are doing. You'd never agree to it.

[Shadow_step]

Yeah I love to be an asshole.
Not sorry.

About 703 it isn't survivalistic. It was based on my previous exp with Sick. He's a terrible player who tunnels on town players the whole game.

[Shadow_step]

I'm actually not and quite pleasant IRL. But that's the thing about the internet. You can be anyone you want to. Pissing people off is fun

[Shadow_step]

That's not Maria's game at all.
And that's sexist. Fuck you

[Shadow_step]

Parama if you are town you really need to look at yourself. When the entire player list doesn't agree with you that it is a scum slip it probably isn't.

And I don't scum slip. Just FTR

[Shadow_step]

Other things which I need to address. If I was scum I'd literally have no problem with Cerb allying with the IC. I get to eliminate a strong town player along with the IC.

[Shadow_step]

The point which I was talking about Cerb was his setup spec which Jester bought up.
Him asking what the setup was to other players was odd because it is a useless question. Setup spec is a nice way for scum to show like they are contributing when they're not.
Not the IC pairing thing.

[Shadow_step]

parama i think you're town but that's really not necessarily a scumslip imo

just saying but what does me being town have anything to do with anything? this isn't about me this is about the scum who slipped. i have zero intention of shutting up about it until shadow's lynched

Go on then keep making the thread more toxic.

[Shadow_step]

The point which I was talking about Cerb was his setup spec which Jester bought up.
Him asking what the setup was to other players was odd because it is a useless question. Setup spec is a nice way for scum to show like they are contributing when they're not.
Not the IC pairing thing.

Still doesn't change the fact you did the copycat thing.

Sorry I don't care what scum think.

[Shadow_step]

@Parama feel free to explain why I'd give a fuck as scum about who pairs up with the IC.

[Shadow_step]

Vedith, you can't scum read both Maria and I, that is a mini scum claim in itself.

[Shadow_step]

No. If I was scum I'd keep my options open. I could have asked Pie who was getting town read by a lot of people and herself wasn't really scum reading me. It makes no sense for scum me to jusr stick ith Maria.

[Shadow_step]

MDS you are so deep in the tunnel that you don't realise you are scum reading me for exactly the same thing which you are doing. Telling Dunn to fuck off for scum reading you.

[Shadow_step]

Not really, but she's of the few who's post I'd actually bother reading cause they make sense.

[Shadow_step]

Who wouldn't you bother reading then?
What made sense in particular? Is making sense an AI to you, or no?

Gamma/HS/MDS/Parama

Whoever is town in this lot is going to eat one heck of a humble pie after my flip.

Making sense isn't AI

[Shadow_step]

MDS you are so deep in the tunnel that you don't realise you are scum reading me for exactly the same thing which you are doing. Telling Dunn to fuck off for scum reading you.

I'm scum because

I still think Shadow is scum. For me it was less the scumslip and more the ad hominem ("go back to newbie games") + however you call it when you reach for the easiest way to make

someone look scummy and they can't disprove/defend themselves from it

(e.g. "look how she went quiet, obviously ran out of mislynches to set up")

Does what when someone else scum reads her?

So like, seriously fuck off with that.

*slow claps*

[Shadow_step]

If you're town, you can't blame the whole town for reading you as scum. Your reactions to people accusing you were horrible.

They weren't, it your perspective which is the issue. Omgus is such a pathetic reason to scum read anyone JC. It is so bloody well known, scum don't do it.

[Shadow_step]

If Shadow is town Kagami might be scum.

Scum Meter
Nahdia
Human Sequencer
pieguyn
Cerberus
Parama
Gamma Emerald
MariaR
Ser Arthur Dayne
Vedith
Jester
inspectorscout
mhsmith0
Dunnstral
Kagami
Shadow_step

town

|

~town

|

null

|

~scum

|

scum

How does my flip have to do anything with Kagami's alignment if you scum read her anyway?

[Shadow_step]

And btw I never threw shade on Dunn like you did with Parama ("she got quiet cause she ran out of mislynches")

That's not even what I said, it felt like she backed of tonally because nobody was buying it was a scum slip.
It is a very effective tactic as scum to tunnel on one particular player until they get lynched. You don't have to anything else meanwhile. I know, because I've used this strategy effectively many times.

[Shadow_step]

I was reading the last summer waltz to see what scum did there and found this.

Subject: Summer Waltz - [Game Over]

I already have two scumreads.

Subject: Summer Waltz - [Game Over]

Map Wolf and cy.

Nahdia can you do this again please?(Nailed two scum in pre dance)

[Shadow_step]

Seeing how the last game went, I think it's better to push a lynch on your own partner instead of suiciding if you think they are scum.
Town have more info if there is a lynch.

[Shadow_step]

i want every1's reads on Parame and HS.

HS solid town, comparing to last time her play doesn't feel like an imitation
Parama close to solid town unless Shadow flips town

So this the ML you are going to push next. Okay

[Shadow_step]

And what's your water tight case on me again Gamma?

Only thing in your iso is

is nobody else going to acknowledge the actual, honest-to-god scumslip from shadow

i haven't seen a slip that clean-cut in ages

I saw it
He doesn't make it past pre-dance, anyone who accepts his invitation is scum with him.

Which is equivalent to this fake over reaction.

OH MY GOSH PARAMA I JUST REMEMBERED THAT STRAT
ALSO THANKS TO RANMARU FOR TELLING ME ABOUT HOW IT WORKS
The deal is that Shadow just decided to go "oh yeah X is scummy!" after someone else made the same accusation. Ranmaru taught me that's a decent scumtell.

[Shadow_step]

Right guys, lets not post until SAD is ready for us to.
GTFO

So much this. If you don't wanna read replace the fuck out.

[Shadow_step]

The only way maria is scum is if she's scum with shadow and behaved very suboptimally.

If shadow is town, there's no way maria chooses him over sicko. He's likely to get her lynched and she has to anger the town to pick him over sicko. If shadow is scum, she gains so, so, so much from bussing him there and loses so little.

This post makes no sense whatsoever. If you scum read me it shouldn't matter what Maria's alignment is at all.

[Shadow_step]

Shadow step, you know first hand what kind of damage that attitude can have to town.
SAD has a very valid point. Conciseness is a virtue, and a bogged thread with pages and pages of useless posts is a massive demotivating factor to any budding townie looking for scum.
Scum don't need to read the thread, they already know everybody's alignment.

@jester
I'm not angry at you, you're angry at me.

You're stuck in a tunnel with regard to me. So why do you care what I think? The other thing is when town is hyper posting scum find it very hard to blend in. Doesn't happen with everyone. But it does.

[Shadow_step]

1152

is a holy fucking misrep. I was scum reading Cerb because he wanted to pair with the IC, how the hell can you say that I already scum read him? BS
also please explain how scum! Me gains any town points by poking Cerb?

[Shadow_step]

@HS first you are convinced I'm scum,

then you say clogging the thread up helps scum and

then you are trying to convince me that clogging the thread is a bad thing and I shouldn't do it cause it deters town.

If you think I'm scum why do you think I'd listen to you?
Should I take this as a slip that you know I'm town which is why you are asking me?

This is literally what Parama's case is.

[Shadow_step]

SAD I've already said if you don't wanna read feel free to fuck off.
Transcend and I have caught scum just by that method. We ain't making shit up. If you don't like it, it's your problem.

[Shadow_step]

@HS, why would I give you what you want if I'm scum?
I want to deter town remember.

[Shadow_step]

That is exactly what parama has been saying and it's not wrong. 165 indicates a scum-read of some level on cerb, 212 is the infamous "why pair with IC and be NKed?"

Didn't answer the question.
In what world does saying a point = scum read?

[Shadow_step]

1152

is a holy fucking misrep. I was scum reading Cerb because he wanted to pair with the IC, how the hell can you say that I already scum read him? BS
also please explain how scum! Me gains any town points by poking Cerb?

Kagami answer this and stop misrepping me. I said he had a point. I didn't agree with the whole bloody thing.

[Shadow_step]

The setup spec bit. Cause I was thinking along the same lines.

[Shadow_step]

And what's your water tight case on me again Gamma?

Only thing in your iso is

is nobody else going to acknowledge the actual, honest-to-god scumslip from shadow

i haven't seen a slip that clean-cut in ages

I saw it
He doesn't make it past pre-dance, anyone who accepts his invitation is scum with him.

Which is equivalent to this fake over reaction.

OH MY GOSH PARAMA I JUST REMEMBERED THAT STRAT
ALSO THANKS TO RANMARU FOR TELLING ME ABOUT HOW IT WORKS
The deal is that Shadow just decided to go "oh yeah X is scummy!" after someone else made the same accusation. Ranmaru taught me that's a decent scumtell.

My main thing I'm sring Shadow for is the fact he jumped on Cerb saying "Cerb is scummy for what Jester said!" and then went "How will it feel to be eliminated in the intermission, Cerb" which contradicts his earlier statement on Cerb's alignment.

????
I asked him why would he as town want to get eliminated.
I never said Cerb is scummy for what Jester said.

[Shadow_step]

Someone please give more solid reasons to Gamma to SR me. He's struggling.

[Shadow_step]

Lol Vedith. I think Trans is better player than you
You know I always find scum when I'm town and you should sheep me always.

[Shadow_step]

wondering why shadow's still alive after both scum slipping and outright lying

I'm gonna wait till endgame to destroy you if you end up being town. Just wait.

[Shadow_step]

What do you want me to say to someone who is stuck in a ducking tunnel? Keep on being the awful player that you are I don't give a shit. I know I'm town and I'm 99% sure Maria is town. Only way she is scum is she is scum with Dunn so there is no way I'm getting lynched today.

[Shadow_step]

I never said Cerb is scummy for what Jester said.

way behind but this sticks out to me as a bold faced lie.

You explicitly said you agreed with jester's reasoning for scum reading cerb

Why are you trying to pass off any blame to jester?

If you don't understand the meaning of me saying "he has a point" and "he is scum because of what Jester said" then even god can't help you.

[Shadow_step]

Like you're so bloody deep you are trying to twist things to make people lynch me. Saying I lied which is complete BS.

[Shadow_step]

I don't want you to TR me, you're scum reading me for the wrong reasons which isn't my fault.
I said he had a point which was the setup spec thing I didn't agree with his whole goddamn post.

[Shadow_step]

SAD I don't play from your book of how to play mafia. So what you do as scum doesn't apply to me. But thanks for scum claiming with that vote.

[Shadow_step]

SAD, you're a misrepping moron. What I clearly meant was that I'd be okay with my lynch only if I had Maria as scum. I have her as town so I'm absolutely not okay with my lynch.

[Shadow_step]

I'm not sure who is scum with you Gamma.

[Shadow_step]

Zero scum hunting, yeah right lmao

[Shadow_step]

Parama I'll tell you what your case is on me. An apparent slip which isn't one. Being arrogant(wow that is such a big scum tell). Calling people out. Yes because you guys are fucking stupid. What do you expect me to do, give you flowers?

[Shadow_step]

I didn't lie, only you and HS think so. Don't expect pleasant responses when you're being stupid. I'm done with this game.

[Shadow_step]

Not gonna self vote or leave the dance. Scum can jump on my wagon if they want me lynched.

Parama just DIE

[Shadow_step]

So he's still doesn't care about scumhunting or showing a care in the world to solving the game and is literally trying to save his skin. Even in the PT. Thanks for the info.

When all your time is wasted in addressing people who've got their head in their arse scum hunting is impossible.
Please tell me more about how everyone else is scum hunting the fuck out of the thread?

[Shadow_step]

I'm afraid we're at the point where the Shadow circlejerk has gone too far to stop. If Shadow lives through today and we don't manage to lynch scum, he'll prolly end up dead tomorrow anyway.

Yeah, hopefully VCA can help you out.

[Shadow_step]

HS, why did you ask Parama to dance with you?

[Shadow_step]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
You've made your case, I'm getting lynched anyway so fucking stop with your conf bias and let me die in peace.

[Shadow_step]

I was, but it wasn't related to this game, you decided to do it pre game. You didn't know your alignment then so drawing any conclusions from that is pointless.

[Shadow_step]

His non-committal one line responses screams 'Scum who has given up and lost his will' to me. He's resigned to his fate. I feel like townShadow would be much more feisty with this kind of wagon on him.

More conf bias. You know nothing about me.

[Shadow_step]

You can't just make reads go away by calling them conf bias lmao

It's actually "You can't make your reads go away" or actually bother thinking.

I'm not making your read go away. You are twisting everything I say into what the scum motivation behind that is. There is literally no point interacting with you.

[Shadow_step]

I honestly don't know if Parama is stubborn town/scum.
I've used this tunneling tactic as scum a LOT. You don't have to do anything other than scream that player to be lynched and its good way to contribute without actually contributing. So I'm unsure.
I don't think town is being misled by scum into lynching me. I think scum are pretty happy sitting back either staying away from my wagon or have just got on it .

[Shadow_step]

Cereberus/Nahdia will sort itself out so I'm not bothered about that pair right now.
Remember that Cerb had decided to pair up with Nahdia pre game, when he didn't know his alignment so him wanting to pair with the IC doesn't actually make him more town.

I didn't read the sign up thread of the last summer waltz but IAI said in the scum PT that he wanted to pair up with Pie pre game and that shouldn't change just because he rolled scum. So there's that.

[Shadow_step]

Gamma you are trying to lynch me to save your ass not because you SR me.

[Shadow_step]

Gamma scum read on me the most amusing part. Where did it come from ?
Parama asks in the thread if anyone hasn't seen that slip?
Gamma goes "oh yeah I did and Shadow needs to go"
Originality on a plate. Like if he scum reads it why not mention it already. What wait for 5 pages for someone else to ask?

Then he accuses me of shadow thinks cerb is scum because of what Jester said so he MUST BE SCUM!

Holy shit hypocrisy

[Shadow_step]

Gamma you are trying to lynch me to save your ass not because you SR me.

So you DON'T SR me?

I do, but you are not a major pusher of my wagon. You are happy just screaming lynch Shadow in the background and after I'll flip town you'll let HS and Parama take the fall for it.

[Shadow_step]

Shadow thoughts on kagami?

Coming soon. I don't think she's town though.

[Shadow_step]

Gamma you are trying to lynch me to save your ass not because you SR me.

So you DON'T SR me?

I do, but you are not a major pusher of my wagon. You are happy just screaming lynch Shadow in the background and after I'll flip town you'll let HS and Parama take the fall for it.

No I'd actually be more inclined to lynch them if you flip SCUM based on my current reads.

LOL
Please tell me this is a joke. You can't be serious. I'm definitely not so good at distancing.

[Shadow_step]

Shadow, this is goodposting. Why weren't you doing this all thread?

I had a plan which would have helped POE scum but it didn't work put because people accepted requests too early. Then people scum reading me for BS reasons distracts me completely and pisses me off.

[Shadow_step]

What PT interactions ?
Maria and I have a totally different, great vibe. There is no scum benefit in pocketing her. She's not so dumb to not tell the difference.

[Shadow_step]

Spoiler: Kagami

Alright, I'm ok with vedith-town.

VOTE: Jester-Pair

VOTE: Shadow Pair

jester, where's your gamma vote?

VOTE: Gamma pair

Absolutely zero read progression.

One moment she's okay with Vedith town, other moment she is voting Gamma.

[Shadow_step]

And Kagami still hasn't answered my questions. I'm sure she asks me to quote them now. Because "I must have missed it"

[Shadow_step]

HS, I think it's jester-gamma-?, though I don't disagree that shadow pair deserves death regardless of alignment.

Scum calling out for a PL.

[Shadow_step]

Maybe just lynching shadow is correct, regardless.

Parama is not wrong that it's very strange to say "Why are you doing something that will just get you NKed?" to someone you're scumreading.

The town-shadow explanation there is that he finds Cerb's behavior odd and was poking at oddities without really thinking through the implications of them, which weighs against the probability that scum-shadow was poking at him in an effort to appear townish and did so in a very clumsy way. I don't think it's quite the smoking gun Parama is making it out to be, but meh.

I still don't like jester's early play and I don't have any terribly fuzzy feeling about MDS either. I think scum-MDS would probably have held out for just a bit, but if there was already a pre-established pairing plan, that may have itself looked suspicious. Jester's "In fact I know you do, therefore my question should be: are you brave enough?" bit makes a show of saying "I'm totes going to be sorting you (because I am town)," which is counterproductive to any real attempt to establish a read. I'm treating 17 as a joke, but I find it strange that no one jumped on that. It's exactly the sort of low-hanging-fruit comment that usually attracts a scumread nibble. I'm also concerned that pretty much everyone had jester/mds as some level of scumread, but they didn't get any real attention at dance-start.

tl;dr: down for lynching either of those pairs, somewhat prefer jester. Ended up with much more text than I'd like.

Before this post, Kagami gets called out for popping in between. Posting one liners and fucking off. Then this post comes at a convenient time.

I don't understand the MDS scum read.
She initially votes MDS-Jester. Then a lot of vote switching.
As scum its always good to get someone who is not getting scum read a lot lynched first and save the people being widely scum read for later lynches. It's just easier this way.
This feels a lot like that.

[Shadow_step]

@HS you are wrong about the fact that scum don't need to read the thread. It is the complete opposite. I as scum would prefer a game with minimal posts than town hyper posting. If you don't read the thread you'll slip and scum can't afford that.

All of SAD's complaints about not wanting to read the thread because it is too much garbage feels fake as fuck.

[Shadow_step]

So basically we lynch Jester, cerb, Shadow and win.
Easy game, easy money.

Shadow
mh

I haven't payed any attention to the other too except for cerb's godawful post.

Should I say this post game or something?

[Shadow_step]

I commented on it. I'm just explaining it further.

[Shadow_step]

I'm reading MDS as town and Jester is town by POE. Otherwise I don't have a town read on Jester for any other reason.

I don't think scum! MDS would even bother reconsidering her read on me and unvote. She gains nothing by making me TR her cause I'm got to get lynched sooner rather than later.

[Shadow_step]

though I don't disagree that shadow pair deserves death regardless of alignment.

Lol wut?

I don't feel good about mh. Usually he town tells a lot and this game he just feels very passive. I'm giving him the benefit of doubt for now. I'd like to see more activity from him.

[Shadow_step]

That quote shouldn't be there. ^^

Anyway that's where I'm at currently. Don't have much of a read on inspector. I'll iso him tomorrow. Now sleeping.

[Shadow_step]

@Dayne I've talked with her enough in our pt to judge her alignment. Take my word for it or don't. You're just making suboptimal lynch choice which is

sad

cause I townread you.

See the thing is, being "townie" or "town-looking" is just NOT good enough. The wincon isn't "go look townie" it's "find scum". So far:

MDS has no scumreads
You have no scumreads
Shadow has NO reads
Dunn has NO reads
Maria has NO reads
Vedith has 1 read
Parama has 1 read
Cerb has done nothing
mhsmith has done nothing (except discuss setup early on ~so~ helpful wow)
Gamma has ????????? reads
Kagami has ????????? reads

Me and inspector have discussed more reads than I feel has been discussed in 70 pages of this thread.

Imagine the deadline was only 8 days for all of Day 1 like the other games. Seriously imagine that.

You should be Lynched for lying.

[Shadow_step]

Yo
Do we still need death if both Shadow and HS flip scum?

I have not thought about that at all. if you want me to comment on this, you'll need to walk me through what your argument here is.

ftr, I have HS as town.

First is the fact I SR Shadow because his method of play doesn't feel like he is town, especially his aversion to giving solid reads. I see some, but it's scattered and hard to analyze.
Then there's the fact Maria states Shadow has been really nice and apologetic in the PT. Scum don't need to do this with scumbuddies so I think Maria is town
Then there's HS's "if Maria flips town GE/Vedith should go". She only mentions Maria's alignment there, and it makes me think she's setting my pair up to take the fall after a Shadow + Maria flip
So if both Shadow and HS flip scum, there should be no doubt my pair is town based on how they set us up.

All your reasons to town read Maria are bullshit. Esp this one where aren'r even considering that both Maria and I are scum. So Maria can say whatever the heck she wants in the thread about what's happening in the PT.

If you town read Maria so much you'd be trying to convince your partner Vedith that she is town. Which you haven't done at all.

Gamma needs rope.

[Shadow_step]

Yo
Do we still need death if both Shadow and HS flip scum?

I have not thought about that at all. if you want me to comment on this, you'll need to walk me through what your argument here is.

ftr, I have HS as town.

First is the fact I SR Shadow because his method of play doesn't feel like he is town, especially his aversion to giving solid reads. I see some, but it's scattered and hard to analyze.
Then there's the fact Maria states Shadow has been really nice and apologetic in the PT. Scum don't need to do this with scumbuddies so I think Maria is town
Then there's HS's "if Maria flips town GE/Vedith should go". She only mentions Maria's alignment there, and it makes me think she's setting my pair up to take the fall after a Shadow + Maria flip
So if both Shadow and HS flip scum, there should be no doubt my pair is town based on how they set us up.

All your reasons to town read Maria are bullshit. Esp this one where aren'r even considering that both Maria and I are scum. So Maria can say whatever the heck she wants in the thread about what's happening in the PT.

If you town read Maria so much you'd be trying to convince your partner Vedith that she is town. Which you haven't done at all.

Gamma needs rope.

This guy can't read I said you can't be scum together because why the fuck would you buddy up to her like that if you were both scum?
And I still think you're scum Shadow, so as long as Vedith votes the way that gets you lynched I have no qualms with his actual reads.

You can't read you blithering idiot. Who told you that Maria is telling the truth?

[Shadow_step]

"Why would you buddy up to her if you both are scum?"

If we both are scum how can hell can you think Maria is telling the truth about what is happening in our PT. Maria can say anything she wants in that case.

Conclusion - scum mindset, gamma scum

[Shadow_step]

Okay Cerb. We can talk about other people but I want a gamma Lynch regardless.
What do you think about MH?

[Shadow_step]

@Cerberus
We accually have been scumhunting (mind you him a lot more then me) but I plan to give a full reads list before the lynch is set in stone even if that means us

Honestly, the way I see SS's play is much more being irritated and semi-OMGusing and just lashing out, and not really scumhunting.

Plis
Read the posts I made ~10 hours ago

[Shadow_step]

"Why would you buddy up to her if you both are scum?"

If we both are scum how can hell can you think Maria is telling the truth about what is happening in our PT. Maria can say anything she wants in that case.

Conclusion - scum mindset, gamma scum

As I said, better lies to tell. What she said before implied you weren't scum together, I decided that from how she described it it sounded like pocketing
It's the mindset of "What is Shadow trying to accomplish? He's likely trying to make her like him so she'll defend him."

Let me tell you something. Maria already likes me.
The fact that you didn't consider what I said earlier makes you likely scum because you are looking for any reason town read people. What exactly is point of this town read anyway? To show that you are "doing something".

[Shadow_step]

Someone ekse addressed the fact Shadow is good at catching scum as town, so I decide to ask him for scumreads because while I did have a strong scumread on him I wanted to give him an opportunity to prove he was town. Instead he just gets upset at me.

Already done. To which you said. Meh its scattered and impossible to understand or something like that. So it doesn't matter what I do you've just decided to SR me to save your ass.

[Shadow_step]

I like that idea, force scum to kill early.
But I'd like everyone to have an established read list before we reach that point.

[Shadow_step]

Oh lol. I thought you wrote HS, not MH. wow. I have no idea how I made that connection.

Alright.

MH is being lazy, and I don't like it. As I said before pie is within my real of suspicion as well, so...they're on the low likelihood of being town/town spectrum, but blah. Do you want me to actually ISo someone SS? I'll be a lot more useful after I do that.

Yeah iso inspector. I'm paranoid about the slot. He expressed a TR on me when Parama was bombing the thread with SCUM SLIP-LYNCH SHADOW.

[Shadow_step]

Amongst Ladies I have Maria/MDS town. Nahdia is the IC. Vedith seems town tonally. Idk about Parama.
Pie is nullish town. Inspector nullish scum and Kagami scum.

Gents the scum pool is [SAD, Mh, Gamma]
Everyone else is town by POE

[Shadow_step]

Oh lol. I thought you wrote HS, not MH. wow. I have no idea how I made that connection.

Alright.

MH is being lazy, and I don't like it. As I said before pie is within my real of suspicion as well, so...they're on the low likelihood of being town/town spectrum, but blah. Do you want me to actually ISo someone SS? I'll be a lot more useful after I do that.

Yeah iso inspector. I'm paranoid about the slot. He expressed a TR on me when Parama was bombing the thread with SCUM SLIP-LYNCH SHADOW.

What are your thoughts about the back and forth between me and IS about his questioning of nahdia?

I'll look into that later.

HOLD THE FUCKING PHONE
You say you have Vedith town me scum, and IS and SAD as both scummy
Are you that sure I'm scum you won't vote the pair you seem more scum in?

@shadow

IS read is barely solid. He is at null scum because I'm paranoid about the slot. Plus I'm gonna get zero support to lynch SAD. So pursuing that ATM is pointless.

[Shadow_step]

Maria TRs Dunnstral. I'm not so confident about him. Dunn is more townier when he is scum and his scum game is reading everyone as town(exaggeration. Try to get the point). This is from my exp with him.

[Shadow_step]

Amongst Ladies I have Maria/MDS town. Nahdia is the IC. Vedith seems town tonally. Idk about Parama.
Pie is nullish town. Inspector nullish scum and Kagami scum.

Gents the scum pool is [SAD, Mh, Gamma]
Everyone else is town by POE

Since you don't really have strongly defined town reads, what is driving your suspicion of me and SAD?

I see

SAD I don't play from your book of how to play mafia. So what you do as scum doesn't apply to me. But thanks for scum claiming with that vote.

SAD, you're a misrepping moron. What I clearly meant was that I'd be okay with my lynch only if I had Maria as scum. I have her as town so I'm absolutely not okay with my lynch.

on SAD, not much other commentary from a quick ISO skim.

Also, thoughts on SAD's postings at me? If you think we're teammates, then that's just theater right? What makes them look like theater to you?

how he keeps saying nobody has reads when that is not the case.
His complaints about there being too many useless posts to read just feel links fake and scum who doesn't want to read anything. I myself have complained about there being too many posts to read as scum because I literally don't give a shit what town are talking about but I need to read it anyway because I can't afford to slip and that is boring as fuck.

You its because you haven't been Town telling like you generally do when you are town. IIRC you love being VT so I expected much more from you.

[Shadow_step]

Maria TRs Dunnstral. I'm not so confident about him. Dunn is more townier when he is scum and his scum game is reading everyone as town(exaggeration. Try to get the point). This is from my exp with him.

I've played with wolf!Dunn once and it was while he was still doing his hyperaggressive/spammy playstyle, so was kinda hard to read (wolves swept ). i don't think I have a great meta on him, was null on him in that one and was kinda null on him in recent game when he was a mason.

I was in that game lol.
I kept defending ploben.
#Ranger_sucks

[Shadow_step]

Alright, I'm down for dunn. [unofficial]

ok,

Accept Dunn.

This should be interesting.

Grand total of 3 minutes to decide.

[Shadow_step]

Another interesting thing is Gamma didn't ask Kagami who was available at that time and went with Vedith instead. Now idk if he thought that Kagami would reject him and he just desperately wanted a partner. Or it's kagami/gamma/x

[Shadow_step]

how he keeps saying nobody has reads when that is not the case.
His complaints about there being too many useless posts to read just feel links fake and scum who doesn't want to read anything. I myself have complained about there being too many posts to read as scum because I literally don't give a shit what town are talking about but I need to read it anyway because I can't afford to slip and that is boring as fuck.

Okay not to be rude but you are the one of the most hypocritical people I presume in the entire universe.

1. BARELY ANY PEOPLE HAVE READS. This is a true fact. I'm not going to argue this point. In fact, my main point: you JUST asked people for concrete reads. YOU. YOURSELF. Here if you are unsure what that means I will help you.

This person:


Just said:

But I'd like everyone to have an established read list before we reach that point.

2. Are you seriously applying what you do as scum to me when you fucking got mad and called me a moron or whatever else you have been insulting me with when I used a scumtell that I normally use when I am scum???

SAD I don't play from your book of how to play mafia. So what you do as scum doesn't apply to me. But thanks for scum claiming with that vote.

How about try "SAD wants to fucking read the thread because HE SIGNED UP FOR THIS GAME and he reads the thread REGARDLESS of alignment". Seriously I read the thread regardless of alignment because, hint, it's FUN for me. That's why I play mafia!!! What I am not willing to do is spend hours reading garbage troll posts that have little to do with actually trying to solve the game.

You are seriously trying to pull the "too dumb and scummy" to be scum trick now right? There's no possible way you are actually this bad because a lot of your posts indicate you are competent, so for you to always resort to these outlandish attacks makes me think this is how you're trying to get out of your lynch.

You decide how omgusy this is.
I was asked to explain my SR on you which I did.
Note I'm not voting you for that because I'm not confident in that read, unlike how you voted me for something you do as scum.
The other thing is I didn't say everybody has ZERO reads. I just said I want everyone to develop reads on the whole player list. There is a huge fuxking major difference in that.

[Shadow_step]

btw, on my end I picked pie because she's a veteran and seemingly competent player and I thought it'd be interesting to chat w her. Not sure why she picked me yet tho.

If Maria wasn't playing. I'd pick pie for the same reason.

[Shadow_step]

I joined the game to dance with her.

[Shadow_step]

Hydra practice

Already said this

[Shadow_step]

Already made. There's just not fun game to play.

[Shadow_step]

You're paranoid because there were at least the majority of th people who didn't see it as a scumslip, but you are paranoid of me because I'm the one that voiced it?

Yeah.

[Shadow_step]

Thanks for scum claiming as a team btw

I literally don't get this.

I think he wants to say that Vedith is scum with Me or Maria and is suiciding to save us.
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LMAO

[Shadow_step]

How did gamma roll scum two times in a row jej

Randomness has no pattern.

[Shadow_step]

@Vedith: Excuse me for trying to be an active influence in the game. If you are Town and you leave, I'm tunneling you as much as possible for the foreseeable future.

How will you tunnel him after you are dead. Why would he leave as scum?

[Shadow_step]

Pathetic shade throwing ^
That's how I read it and why exactly would scum! Vedith leave exactly

[Shadow_step]

That was to mh

[Shadow_step]

Pathetic shade throwing ^
That's how I read it and why exactly would scum! Vedith leave exactly

Scum!Vedith almost certainly wouldn't leave, unless he felt lynch inevitable and wanted to cut off discussion (and it's pretty early for that). So why ask the question?

Cause like I said scum Vedith doesn't leave under any circumstance.
So the if you're town and you're leaving. There is no if. Only town leave scum don't.

[Shadow_step]

Mh is trying really hard to build something out of nothing.

[Shadow_step]

I really hope Gamma flips town so Vedith doesn't feel like he's doing the right thing.

??

[Shadow_step]

Vedith if you're gonna do it. Then do it.
I'm getting tired of Gamma's non sense.

[Shadow_step]

Gamma flips scum. Lynch Shadow?
How about no

[Shadow_step]

How anyone can think interactions between gamma and I are s/s I have no bloody idea.

[Shadow_step]

Learn to read @Gamma

@parma i don't think mariar was being sarcastic

vedith leaves, gamma flips scum
lynch shadow,

he flips scum, if not, use his and vedith's reads to carry game
if shadow flips scum, lynch jester = win
if not win i'll re-evaluate then, this game is a fucking shit show to be honest, why the fuck did we let the game run up to 86 godamn pages without a lynch?

hyperposting is ~very bad~

[Shadow_step]

SS, Maria, Nahdia: HS/Parama? Yes/no?

Are you asking our opinion on whether they are scum or no?

There are many more scummier people who need to go first.

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: kagami

[Shadow_step]

Cerb where will you be voting today?

[Shadow_step]

I'm sure there is one scum in Kagami/Dunn

Kagami continues to not address my questions

[Shadow_step]

Then there is this

Spoiler:

VOTE: Jester-Pair

VOTE: Shadow Pair

VOTE: Gamma pair

VOTE: jester pair

VOTE: gamma

VOTE: No Lynch

That's a lot of hollow votes, and they all happen to be on the safest wagons of the day. The Shadow vote in 1622 is especially interesting because Dunn said Kagami was allegedly townreading that pair at the time.

The town-shadow explanation there is that he finds Cerb's behavior odd and was poking at oddities without really thinking through the implications of them, which weighs against the probability that scum-shadow was poking at him in an effort to appear townish and did so in a very clumsy way. I don't think it's quite the smoking gun Parama is making it out to be, but meh.

That was a pretty bad sheeping on the Shadow case and pinged me right away. Funny thing is she had been calling him scummy for a while at that point but not actually voting him.

I still don't like jester's early play and I don't have any terribly fuzzy feeling about MDS either. I think scum-MDS would probably have held out for just a bit, but if there was already a pre-established pairing plan, that may have itself looked suspicious. Jester's "In fact I know you do, therefore my question should be: are you brave enough?" bit makes a show of saying "I'm totes going to be sorting you (because I am town)," which is counterproductive to any real attempt to establish a read. I'm treating 17 as a joke, but I find it strange that no one jumped on that. It's exactly the sort of low-hanging-fruit comment that usually attracts a scumread nibble. I'm also concerned that pretty much everyone had jester/mds as some level of scumread, but they didn't get any real attention at dance-start.

I kind of wish I'd noticed this part earlier because that's literally the same sort of nitpicking that made me scumread Jester in the beginning and mhsmith in the middle of Yesterday. FYI: I admitted pre-dance that Jester can read me like an open book. The "brave enough" was obviously a joke playing on that. We were scum together recently and he noticed I was scum before even looking at his role PM. Like literally 2 pages into the game.


Regardless, Kagami's reads started looking suspiciously similar to Dunn's at that point and I voiced my concern, which Dunn agreed with. Then, this happened:

@Whoever mentioned read-cloning: my internalization is that dunn's reads followed mine, with mismatches as to who was scummy but general agreement on which pairs were likely to include scum.

"Whoever mentioned my read-cloning" was Dunn. Hi.
Does anyone seriously buy that explanation? Dunn scumreads my pair, so does she. Dunn scumreads Shadow, so does she. Dunn scumreads Gamma, so does she. Dunn thinks Vedith is town, she changes her mind and says he's town after having called him scum. No, Dunn's reads definitely didn't follow Kagami's, it was the opposite.

Before accusing Kagami in the village thread, I asked Jester in private something like (paraphrasing)...

Mini:

Is Dunn easy to fool? I think Kagami's either pocketing him or blindly sheeping his reads (because she *is* transparently agreeing with him)

And he said no, Dunn's a great player as either alignment, so I figured she'd be the one sheeping Dunn and I was right.

By the way Kagami, what happened to this?

I would be shocked if gamma and shadow are both town, I'm just unsure who should leave first, since one pair being scum somewhat implies the other town. Part of me wants to channel our charming mod, who would probably just want to lynch them all and let the mod sort them out.

HS, I think it's jester-gamma-?, though I don't disagree that shadow pair deserves death regardless of alignment.

Gamma's town. What does that make of Shadow? I thought your townread on that pair depended on Gamma being scum, but you said you'd vote them out "regardless of alignment". Why are you no-lynching right now?

I think we should just flip a scummo and work from there.

VOTE: No Lynch

Like, feel free to vote me off, but when you see I'm town, this is the lady you need to start looking at. And that includes you, Dunn.

[Shadow_step]

The dude literally told someone.

In the middle of thread what translated to "Go ahead and leave the dance coward"

If it was literally anyone else who has not been acting like a complete asshole you would've scumread it right?

But no. He plays the "too scummy to be scum" card. And you're like "Shaddddddowwwww-samaaaaaa please shadddddddowwww-sama why are you such a beacon of innocence please say more nice words to me in the PT"

SAD's posts are just sad misreps.

[Shadow_step]

Notice how SAD has completely ignored HS and Parama's cry outs for a lynch/flip.

I make a single line about asking vedith to leave(he was dead set on doing it anyway). I was confident of a Gamma scum slip ,and hell breaks loose.

[Shadow_step]

I'm not no lynching because I'm certain there is scum in kagami/dunn

[Shadow_step]

That's to Cerb who is pro NL.

[Shadow_step]

Oh yes, of course, my entire case is that shadow scumslipped, that's all it is, and nothing more.
Nice misrep!

What else is there to it?

[Shadow_step]

alright let's stop the misrep and see where my reads actually are huh?

lock town:
{arthur, parama}

probably town:
{smith, pie, scout, kagami}

unsure:
{dunn, cerb, mds}

scummy scum:
{shadow, mariar, jester}

that leaves a whole six slots to find scum in, and only 4 of them are paired.
are you going to rethink your stance now that you have more detailed information, or do you think 2735 is still a valid post with valid points?

Have you taken issue with one of your lock town voting the other lock town?

[Shadow_step]

Not flipping scum. Vote Kagami/Dunn

[Shadow_step]

No I've said a million times I want a shadow pair flip so I can work from there.

If he flips scum I think much less likely you're scum as the competing wagon.

What happens when I flip town?
Will you accept you are horrible at mafia if you are town?

[Shadow_step]

I haven't read any of the last 6-7 pages and I've no idea what the VC is. I just checked this page briefly and saw MDS voting me which is a bad vote.

[Shadow_step]

"Shadow has given no reasons for kagami being scum"

Spoiler:

Spoiler: Kagami

Alright, I'm ok with vedith-town.

VOTE: Jester-Pair

VOTE: Shadow Pair

jester, where's your gamma vote?

VOTE: Gamma pair

Absolutely zero read progression.

One moment she's okay with Vedith town, other moment she is voting Gamma.

And Kagami still hasn't answered my questions. I'm sure she asks me to quote them now. Because "I must have missed it"

HS, I think it's jester-gamma-?, though I don't disagree that shadow pair deserves death regardless of alignment.

Scum calling out for a PL.

Maybe just lynching shadow is correct, regardless.

Parama is not wrong that it's very strange to say "Why are you doing something that will just get you NKed?" to someone you're scumreading.

The town-shadow explanation there is that he finds Cerb's behavior odd and was poking at oddities without really thinking through the implications of them, which weighs against the probability that scum-shadow was poking at him in an effort to appear townish and did so in a very clumsy way. I don't think it's quite the smoking gun Parama is making it out to be, but meh.

I still don't like jester's early play and I don't have any terribly fuzzy feeling about MDS either. I think scum-MDS would probably have held out for just a bit, but if there was already a pre-established pairing plan, that may have itself looked suspicious. Jester's "In fact I know you do, therefore my question should be: are you brave enough?" bit makes a show of saying "I'm totes going to be sorting you (because I am town)," which is counterproductive to any real attempt to establish a read. I'm treating 17 as a joke, but I find it strange that no one jumped on that. It's exactly the sort of low-hanging-fruit comment that usually attracts a scumread nibble. I'm also concerned that pretty much everyone had jester/mds as some level of scumread, but they didn't get any real attention at dance-start.

tl;dr: down for lynching either of those pairs, somewhat prefer jester. Ended up with much more text than I'd like.

Before this post, Kagami gets called out for popping in between. Posting one liners and fucking off. Then this post comes at a convenient time.

I don't understand the MDS scum read.
She initially votes MDS-Jester. Then a lot of vote switching.
As scum its always good to get someone who is not getting scum read a lot lynched first and save the people being widely scum read for later lynches. It's just easier this way.
This feels a lot like that.

[Shadow_step]

Kagami still refuses to address my questions give me one reason to town read this.

[Shadow_step]

Not flipping scum

. Vote Kagami/Dunn

Makes a post suggesting awareness of pressure level

I haven't read any of the last 6-7 pages and I've no idea what the VC is

. I just checked this page briefly and saw MDS voting me which is a bad vote.

Makes a post claiming lack of awareness of pressure level



Bonus points for wolfy pop in responding to mds vote
Double bonus points for not being able to (or not choosing to) explain why the vote is bad other than "it's wrong"

Cause she townreads Maria and doesn't scum read me. That is bloody obvious. If you scum read me vote me stop throwing shade .

[Shadow_step]

Not flipping scum. Vote Kagami/Dunn

No I've said a million times I want a shadow pair flip so I can work from there.

If he flips scum I think much less likely you're scum as the competing wagon.

What happens when I flip town?
Will you accept you are horrible at mafia if you are town?

haha okay screw off
VOTE: Shadow

you pop out of dormancy just to chastise other players for playing badly

when you're literally not playing???

these two posts contribute nothing to the game except to go "ohai i'm not scum you suck if you think i'm scum" which is just

a literal nothing

You mean the same way you were sick of reading posts and just wanted some flips? Yeah this is the same.
I'm very confident of a kagami scum flip ATM and I don't have anything else to say right now.

[Shadow_step]

mds/jester needs to die tomorrow hory shet this is horrible

We can die now. With pleasure. Your face afterwards will be so worth it.

So much this

[Shadow_step]

Before this post, Kagami gets called out for popping in between. Posting one liners and fucking off. Then this post comes at a convenient time.

I don't understand the MDS scum read.
She initially votes MDS-Jester. Then a lot of vote switching.
As scum its always good to get someone who is not getting scum read a lot lynched first and save the people being widely scum read for later lynches. It's just easier this way.
This feels a lot like that.

Given that you've been called out for popping in and out at convenient times, why is it worse on her end than yours?

Why is vote hopping suspicious? That seems if anything somewhat towny at an early stage, unless you think that she's empty bandwagining and is up to lynch anyone?

I also don't understand your point about pushing to get a non suspect lynched. Obviously it can be convenient to get someone outside the POE "scammed up" or actually mislynched, but why do you think that this is something she'd actually be likelier to do as wolf, as opposed to the town explanation of critically engaging w more players? I feel like if there's good evidence of her reaching to get a tougher mislynch, there'd be more substantive evidence than I've seen; what am I missing there?

Jeez your misreps.
My activity is low sitewide. Its a thing called the weekend. I don't think you're aware of it.

Let me hear your case on me so I can call everything you say "Why wouldn't town! Shadow do this, why us this scum?" Looking forward to it.

[Shadow_step]

Is*
This is going to be one of my last posts because I don't care anymore.
One scum in kag/dunn
One scum in Mh/pie
Not sure about 3rd scum
Maybe SAD, not sure.

My work is done here. Found the three scum now do what you want.

[Shadow_step]

Not flipping scum. Vote Kagami/Dunn

No I've said a million times I want a shadow pair flip so I can work from there.

If he flips scum I think much less likely you're scum as the competing wagon.

What happens when I flip town?
Will you accept you are horrible at mafia if you are town?

haha okay screw off
VOTE: Shadow

you pop out of dormancy just to chastise other players for playing badly

when you're literally not playing???

these two posts contribute nothing to the game except to go "ohai i'm not scum you suck if you think i'm scum" which is just

a literal nothing

You mean the same way you were sick of reading posts and just wanted some flips? Yeah this is the same.
I'm very confident of a kagami scum flip ATM and I don't have anything else to say right now.

[Shadow_step]

Is*
This is going to be one of my last posts because I don't care anymore.
One scum in kag/dunn
One scum in Mh/pie
Not sure about 3rd scum
Maybe SAD, not sure.

My work is done here. Found the three scum now do what you want.

Anti-spew or OMGUS? Or both?

I'm just making sure my death isn't in vain and town stop derping. You and kagami need death asap.

[Shadow_step]

Also, when did Maria tell you that?

Let me just complete this for you.

"She told you in the scum PT, lynch this with fire."

[Shadow_step]

The shadow ISO between vedith suicide and his recent pop in

Spoiler:

Cerb where will you be voting today?

VOTE: kagami

I'm sure there is one scum in Kagami/Dunn

Kagami continues to not address my questions

Then there is this

Spoiler:

VOTE: Jester-Pair

VOTE: Shadow Pair

VOTE: Gamma pair

VOTE: jester pair

VOTE: gamma

VOTE: No Lynch

That's a lot of hollow votes, and they all happen to be on the safest wagons of the day. The Shadow vote in 1622 is especially interesting because Dunn said Kagami was allegedly townreading that pair at the time.

The town-shadow explanation there is that he finds Cerb's behavior odd and was poking at oddities without really thinking through the implications of them, which weighs against the probability that scum-shadow was poking at him in an effort to appear townish and did so in a very clumsy way. I don't think it's quite the smoking gun Parama is making it out to be, but meh.

That was a pretty bad sheeping on the Shadow case and pinged me right away. Funny thing is she had been calling him scummy for a while at that point but not actually voting him.

I still don't like jester's early play and I don't have any terribly fuzzy feeling about MDS either. I think scum-MDS would probably have held out for just a bit, but if there was already a pre-established pairing plan, that may have itself looked suspicious. Jester's "In fact I know you do, therefore my question should be: are you brave enough?" bit makes a show of saying "I'm totes going to be sorting you (because I am town)," which is counterproductive to any real attempt to establish a read. I'm treating 17 as a joke, but I find it strange that no one jumped on that. It's exactly the sort of low-hanging-fruit comment that usually attracts a scumread nibble. I'm also concerned that pretty much everyone had jester/mds as some level of scumread, but they didn't get any real attention at dance-start.

I kind of wish I'd noticed this part earlier because that's literally the same sort of nitpicking that made me scumread Jester in the beginning and mhsmith in the middle of Yesterday. FYI: I admitted pre-dance that Jester can read me like an open book. The "brave enough" was obviously a joke playing on that. We were scum together recently and he noticed I was scum before even looking at his role PM. Like literally 2 pages into the game.


Regardless, Kagami's reads started looking suspiciously similar to Dunn's at that point and I voiced my concern, which Dunn agreed with. Then, this happened:

@Whoever mentioned read-cloning: my internalization is that dunn's reads followed mine, with mismatches as to who was scummy but general agreement on which pairs were likely to include scum.

"Whoever mentioned my read-cloning" was Dunn. Hi.
Does anyone seriously buy that explanation? Dunn scumreads my pair, so does she. Dunn scumreads Shadow, so does she. Dunn scumreads Gamma, so does she. Dunn thinks Vedith is town, she changes her mind and says he's town after having called him scum. No, Dunn's reads definitely didn't follow Kagami's, it was the opposite.

Before accusing Kagami in the village thread, I asked Jester in private something like (paraphrasing)...

Mini:

Is Dunn easy to fool? I think Kagami's either pocketing him or blindly sheeping his reads (because she *is* transparently agreeing with him)

And he said no, Dunn's a great player as either alignment, so I figured she'd be the one sheeping Dunn and I was right.

By the way Kagami, what happened to this?

I would be shocked if gamma and shadow are both town, I'm just unsure who should leave first, since one pair being scum somewhat implies the other town. Part of me wants to channel our charming mod, who would probably just want to lynch them all and let the mod sort them out.

HS, I think it's jester-gamma-?, though I don't disagree that shadow pair deserves death regardless of alignment.

Gamma's town. What does that make of Shadow? I thought your townread on that pair depended on Gamma being scum, but you said you'd vote them out "regardless of alignment". Why are you no-lynching right now?

I think we should just flip a scummo and work from there.

VOTE: No Lynch

Like, feel free to vote me off, but when you see I'm town, this is the lady you need to start looking at. And that includes you, Dunn.

The dude literally told someone.

In the middle of thread what translated to "Go ahead and leave the dance coward"

If it was literally anyone else who has not been acting like a complete asshole you would've scumread it right?

But no. He plays the "too scummy to be scum" card. And you're like "Shaddddddowwwww-samaaaaaa please shadddddddowwww-sama why are you such a beacon of innocence please say more nice words to me in the PT"

SAD's posts are just sad misreps.

Notice how SAD has completely ignored HS and Parama's cry outs for a lynch/flip.

I make a single line about asking vedith to leave(he was dead set on doing it anyway). I was confident of a Gamma scum slip ,and hell breaks loose.

I'm not no lynching because I'm certain there is scum in kagami/dunn

That's to Cerb who is pro NL.

Oh yes, of course, my entire case is that shadow scumslipped, that's all it is, and nothing more.
Nice misrep!

What else is there to it?

alright let's stop the misrep and see where my reads actually are huh?

lock town:
{arthur, parama}

probably town:
{smith, pie, scout, kagami}

unsure:
{dunn, cerb, mds}

scummy scum:
{shadow, mariar, jester}

that leaves a whole six slots to find scum in, and only 4 of them are paired.
are you going to rethink your stance now that you have more detailed information, or do you think 2735 is still a valid post with valid points?

Have you taken issue with one of your lock town voting the other lock town?

That's over the span of nearly four full days. "But weekend"

Its actually a town tell for me if anything. When my top scum read flips town I really get annoyed with myself and just kind of lose motivation for a bit. But w/e ofc I'm scum who's hiding.

[Shadow_step]

I want reasons why you scum read me. NOW

[Shadow_step]

You guys might get lucky if Maria is scum but I highly doubt that. Unless she went "fuck this shit and didn't listen to her buddies and decided to dance with me anyway"
If you look at it she wasn't going to have a great survival chance with Sick either. But then why not just dance with Dunn. Unless they both are scum but then why would Dunn ask Maria first. For wifom?

Lol as I finished typing this I think Maria being scum is highly improbable.

[Shadow_step]

No answer? Fine then I'll go first

1) your activity dropped off a cliff post vedith suicide (before then it was your pair vs his)
2) wolfy pop in
3) you seeming to be in anti spew under pressure

There's also something else that I want your answer on first before I discuss.

This happened after you voted me, how can this be a reason to vote me because you think I'm scum?

[Shadow_step]

They are conf biased it doesn't matter what I do they'll find a scum motivation behind it.

[Shadow_step]

I'd be upset if I had a strong PR or something. I don't so these people are just dumb.

Case on me is "alleged scum slip" it isn't and I don't slip as scum anyway. "Arrogant" that's NAI for me. "Assholish" like seriously?
Then there is the conf bias

[Shadow_step]

Shadow over and out. Better get all 3 scum on my wagon if you want to lynch ms cause I'm not self voting or leaving.

[Shadow_step]

Pissed and upset are different things
You didn't get that I was pissed for being scum read by my reactions to being voted, really?

[Shadow_step]

Bla Bla Bla

@SAD^

[Shadow_step]

Those are not initial reactions. Check my day 1 reactions. I've already said no matter what I do they'll scum read me so there is no point wasting my energy

[Shadow_step]

I'd be upset if I had a strong PR or something. I don't so these people are just dumb.

Case on me is "alleged scum slip" it isn't and I don't slip as scum anyway. "Arrogant" that's NAI for me. "Assholish" like seriously?
Then there is the conf bias

Oh my. For someone who cares so much about alleged misreps, you sure just misrepped like the whole suspicion on you.

As I previously said, if you're really "arrogant", then you would be "arrogantly" putting in more effort everywhere, aggressively pushing stuff instead of coasting hardcore. It's not that you're arrogant, it's that it looks like you're faking arrogance/assholishness/aggressiveness.

Also, it's not really "conf bias" as much as you can't override what you have done, and it doesn't change your alignment in the game. I've seen wayyyy too many people pull the too scummy to be scum card and coast off of that. Especially back before I took hiatus, I also used to pay/spec games on another forum where we played all/large majority of our games alted. Experienced players faked being noobs/naive/too scummy etc with ease and got written off for it. Which is exactly what I get the feeling you're doing here.

I haven't played the too scummy to be scum card. People scum read me for my arrogant behaviour in every other game you can check for yourself its NAI.
Love how you are selectively responding. You accuse me of not having a case against Kagami. When I prove you wrong you choose to ignore it.

Also pushing my scum reads aggressively. I've repeatedly tried to interact with Kagami but she refuses to respond and the entire fucking player list is letting her get away with that.

[Shadow_step]

I don't care about Dunn. I don't town read him. Kagami is scum so he can die.

[Shadow_step]

HS, Arthur, smith and Parama will never unvote Shadow.

Tbh I am at the point where I think I will hammer any L-1 wagon just because I need a freaking flip before 500 pages so I have something more to work with than these back and forth accusations and AtEing.

That said I will make this very clear:

I much, much, MUCH prefer a shadow lynch today, as a) I need a scumflip before night as I can work much better with the game that way (and shadow highest probability for me rn), b) at least people like mhsmith are actively contributing, you people left the dude I forgot his name day1 without a dance for "gonna be useless", like holy Shadow scummy AND being useless.

Again with the calling me useless for no reason. Ignoring my posts, selectively responding.

[Shadow_step]

Mh, town! You can make better cases on people in his sleep. I don't think you buy your own case.

[Shadow_step]

Shadow, what's your experience with smith?

One open game where he replaced in and one game as hydra.

[Shadow_step]

Mh, town! You can make better cases on people in his sleep. I don't think you buy your own case.

Why do you tr me friend

I don't see you dancing with me as scum given the position I was in.(scum read by a decent amount of people)
Its as simple as that.

[Shadow_step]

Shadow, what's your experience with smith?

One open game where he replaced in and one game as hydra.

We'll also always have that mini normal that you somehow thought was townsided

Spoiler:

I subbed into that game, died that night, and watched town derp its way to a loss

It was!
You made a grand total of zero posts lol

[Shadow_step]

'I am used to your bad reads'
>picked the scumteam in our equilibrium mafia game (mariar was scum btw)
>picked the scumteam in autumn masquerade
wot
yes i'm a terrible player and yes i often have bad reads but as far as you're concerned i have a pretty clean track record

The scumteam wasn't hard in equili maf because my slot was obv scum

want a cookie?

My timeline maybe incorrect but
@Dunn why did you ask Kagami and not Vedith for the dance?

[Shadow_step]

Idk how that quote got there ^

SCUM THEATRE
idk guys two scum with one lynch really doens't seem that unlikely anymore after that interaction

Yeah, I would totally want to dance with my scum buddy right from the start.

[Shadow_step]

They had tracker also

[Shadow_step]

You are not considering the fact that he vig shot failing on a person without a reasonable explanation is a guilty in itself.

[Shadow_step]

Spoiler: for mh

not really, a tracker tracking the maf doc is a guaranteed guilty once the doc flips like.
Don't get me started on how impossible it is to pass a scum RB in mini normals

[Shadow_step]

back to actual content

Mh, town! You can make better cases on people in his sleep. I don't think you buy your own case.

Also, what exactly about my case makes you think I don't buy it? I feel like that's a statement that ought to be substantiated by quotes/explanations that back up the idea that I'm somehow just going through the motions or faking my case etc.

Tomorrow.

[Shadow_step]

On phone can't quote selectively.

[Shadow_step]

What's your thoughts on Dunn/Kagami

[Shadow_step]

That's a bad reason go TR kagami. You said you'd analyse who chose whom as partners and why. Kagami choosing Dunn in what 10 minutes or something isn't scummy to you?

Also why isn't scum me voting you right now?

[Shadow_step]

This game needs more voting, or more suicide.

I remain of the opinion that jester-mds is the most likely to get a scum-flip. I'm willing to go smith as well.

I'm probably not going to compromise on shadow-maria vs intermission unless there's something I'm missing beyond that they're terrible.

YOU ARE TERRIBLE

[Shadow_step]

I'd say that just about everyone seemed to be lazy about who they were taking and why (and/or just going w someone they wanted to pair with regardless of alignment); why does kagami stand out in particular on that end?
Other examples: jester/mds wanted to pair together

Pie took me because I was getting taken anyway, she thought we were compatible, and why not (in PT she expressed a preference for being paired w scum so she could eventually die before endgame, fwiwi)

I don't recall why Maria took you do but I do remember her being clear on it being a useful source of a TR for her

If you think I picked shadow as scum to draw a giant target on my back Vedith that's really bad thinking when I could've went with 2 others.
Can you answer my question.

Pedit: I'm saying you're sudden call out on me was sus as fuck when you had nothing to back it up besides calling something fake and that's the easiest thing you can ever say as scum

It would be nice if I could get something useful from the accepts but enough seem lazy that it seems like a non productive avenue (I recall asking about it and nit really getting anything useful from the excercise). Do you disagree? Maybe you think a partuclar accept was especially towny in nature?


As far as scum!you goes, you certainly could be voting me, but maybe you are concerned with not looking opportunistic or OMGUS-y, maybe pie is your buddy, maybe you have a strategic reason to be pushing Dunn/kagami (possible distancing? Possible hoping to throw dirt on a town pair?). I don't feel like your non vote on me is especially clearing at this point; do you think I'm mistaken in this evaluation and your being elsewhere is an important point in your favor?

I could make 1000 townie posts right not and people still would be okay with okay with voting me. When I'm "so ob scum" some OMGUS isn't going to change anything for me. As scum I'd be thinking of self preservation.

[Shadow_step]

Hey just lynch mhsmith already


I have seen that actually explaining yourself doesn't have any effect here so I'm just gonna post this until it happens

Kagami/Dunn has a higher chance of flipping scum.

[Shadow_step]

I sincerely hope both HS/Parama are town, their reaction after my flip is going to be gold.

I'll leave if Insta is too far away near deadline.

Scum is in
SAD/Inspec
Dunn/Kagami
Mh/Pie

Cerb I expect much more from you, wreck scum for me please.

[Shadow_step]

If not, we can judge the town together from the dead thread. Win/win really.