Micro 675: Heroes of the Storm uPick - Game Over!


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Post Post #128 (isolation #0) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:37 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

"Aj The Great"... stop killing me oml
In post 9, Syryana wrote:VOTE: Aj the Epic

Wagering millers must die.
I almost got away with this shit too. Should've.
The Oxford Bubbles wrote:Scum don't scumhunt. They use their actions to tell a story they're creating. True events aren't like constructed stories. They aren't simple and don't follow an easy sequence - linear.
Syryana doesn't use his actions to probe further, dig deeper than he could. He makes a move, explains it, and then moves on.
Controlled. Linear.

~ Raven
All absolutes are bullshit.

In honesty, scum can scumhunt, they're just going to be wrong. You're writing a narrative that is pretty patently not true.
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Post Post #143 (isolation #1) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:53 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Dunnstral wrote:Wouldn't mind lynching shadow-step at the moment
Why? You'd advocate a PL 2 days into d1?
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Post Post #152 (isolation #2) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:21 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 146, borkjerfkin wrote:
In post 143, Aj The Epic wrote:
Dunnstral wrote:Wouldn't mind lynching shadow-step at the moment
Why? You'd advocate a PL 2 days into d1?
You are most certainly not commenting on anything but the lowest hanging "bad theory" fruit
But I probably will be until the 16th. I'm just trying to participate a bit to not be completely gone.
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Post Post #181 (isolation #3) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:45 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 73, borkjerfkin wrote:
In post 71, Syryana wrote:Oxford is getting a squinty eyed glare from me.
I see a pretty believable trajectory from them
So I find this post a bit odd on re-read because I felt their trajectory with Char wagon was anything but natural.
In post 37, The Oxford Bubbles wrote:Well, "us" is better to go on right now than "he lewd".

VOTE: Charloux
In support of RVS-ish wagon.
In post 45, The Oxford Bubbles wrote:Dunnstral, I don't think it was a slip, but what harm does having an early wagon do?

~ Raven
Second head shows that support
In post 57, The Oxford Bubbles wrote:I bet Syryana was trying to get Charloux quicklynched on a reason that only looks good!!! Mafia like hiding behind FAKE reasons to attack people cos they know if the reason sounds good they can vote innocent townies and noone will know!

And then when Dunnstral yells at him he posts a gif of an ugly man! I think he's scum trying to dodge the subject >:C He didn't even explain why he wanted Dunnstral lynched! I bet he moved his vote cos he couldn't hide behind his fake reason any more...

VOTE: Syryana

die! die! die!

- Bubbles
...And...

Okay so my major issue here is I think every major player involved here (SxN, Syr, Dunn, tOB) realized it was an early wagon. That's basically everyone who was voting for it early + Dunn, who was against it. At first I thought this was a bit of a joke because the reason's ugly but
In post 64, The Oxford Bubbles wrote:I disagree with Bubbles about what Syryana was doing but I don't think his posting is genuine. He calls attention to what he did in post and to my gut that doesn't sit right.

~ Raven
Again the hydra reaffirms it. I don't see how you read what transpired as anything but an RVS wagon, which normally gets a hell of a lot closer to lynch before disbanding anyways. Granted the reasoning (Dunn didn't vote after calling someone out) wasn't put down in thread yet, but it isn't hard to see that the wagon on Char was already done. That and the fact that this read has persisted needlessly since then is what doesn't sit well with me.

On the bright side, Dunn is town. This is like the first time I actually believe it too, but his actions around it show actual suspicion, something I don't see in scum games of his.
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Post Post #192 (isolation #4) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:22 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

I'm more or less asking what about their posts made you think TOB is town, since those posts gave me the opposite impression. And no, I'm not 'suspecting bork'.
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Post Post #214 (isolation #5) » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:18 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 212, Shadow_step wrote:
In post 143, Aj The Epic wrote:
Dunnstral wrote:Wouldn't mind lynching shadow-step at the moment
Why? You'd advocate a PL 2 days into d1?
This is the pathetic attempt to make something look worse than it actually is.

When Dunn replies to him he just avoids answering it which is even worse.
In post 147, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 143, Aj The Epic wrote:
Dunnstral wrote:Wouldn't mind lynching shadow-step at the moment
Why? You'd advocate a PL 2 days into d1?
Never said anything about pl
How is it anything but a policy lynch? You had yet to post, which by definition makes it a PL. I wasn't going to argue it with Dunn because denial is a strong thing but that's nothing but a PL.
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Post Post #218 (isolation #6) » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:40 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

It could be a balance thing. I didn't get my first character choice though admittedly that character is insanely popular across two blizzard games. Would it be pertinent to check if it was a balance choice or already selected character via claiming the ungotten first character? Since I selected mine literally dead last, I could claim the one I didn't get and solve it right away.

Also I did like 45/48 because I consider progressing an RVS wagon a town thing to do. 57/Raven's next post was what I took issue to because I thought Syrana's post and vote on Dunnstral was pretty minor.
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Post Post #231 (isolation #7) » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:08 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 227, Seiko x Naomi wrote:AJ also continues to focus almost entirely exclusively on his TOB read without paying much attention to anything else in the game (i.e. he hasn't given any stance on the wagon on me which has existed since pretty much the start of the game) - his posts across the last page now that he came back were basically him answering a direct question from S_S, and then talking about flavor and backing up the TOB read again.

also, I'm fine with S_S posts so far.
I'm not going to take a stance on the wagon unless I explicitly feel you're town or scum. I haven't played with Notty since Tarrot Mafia and Penguin... ever independently of cabd at least. My general policy in early days is to let as much play out without me intervening in wagon progression as possible to get an idea of where everyone stands. The reason I addressed Char's early wagon is it came to it's natural conclusion and nothing more was going to happen with it. As I choose to hunt with looking for motives/reasons for people's votes, it's not good for me to interrupt a current wagon this early on, especially when I don't have an opinion on it.

And there was nothing more with TOB that I wanted to address. It was literally that string of four/five posts where they were fine with the wagon and then not fine with Syrana having started the wagon in the first place.
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Post Post #237 (isolation #8) » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:32 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Syryana wrote:
Aj The Epic wrote:I'm not going to take a stance on the wagon unless I explicitly feel you're town or scum.
Is there anybody you DO feel is explicitly town or scum? Or are even leaning in that direction? (also fyi Seiko is Notty and Pie, not penguin)

UNVOTE:
No scum reads, I only have town reads right now.

Dunn/Bork are my 'explicit' town reads. IDK S_S well enough to have a read, but I'm comfortable with what he's said thus far.

If you still find me suspicious, why unvote me?
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Post Post #268 (isolation #9) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:15 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 266, borkjerfkin wrote:As it stands I think if either of AJ/S_S flipped scum I'd probably be really comfortable going after the other one; their interactions definitely do NOT preclude them from being a team.

AJ for his unexplainable lack of anything but the most superficial engagement on S_S's suspicion of him and then dropping it.
S_S for in turn scumreading AJ but going after Syr.

I also pointed out , which as I said earlier would make a scumflip from S_S more damning of AJ.

I don't have a huge scumread on AJ outside of everything I just posted but I'm not really at a point where I know what else to pursue and I have double the posts of the next highest person so me posting more isn't going to positively affect the cadence of the game

VOTE: AJ

Also replace obvious_alt TIA.
Because arguing over verbiage isn't my thing. "Why is it a PL?" "Because it is. He hasn't posted." That's literally the only helpful thing that can ever come from that conversation, so why bother engaging in it? Honestly, having no answer is completely fine here because
this line of discussion is a waste of time.


Shadow makes literally eight other posts (not picking prod in that) to look at in that page. Do I care that he's poking suspicion at me? Not particularly. It doesn't end in a vote for me but has a vote for someone he claims is scummier. It's natural enough. There's actually quite a few more reading me as a scum lean, Dunn among them who I also town read.

Jesus. You'd think I've played this game enough to not buddy a partner in such a stupid way.
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Post Post #270 (isolation #10) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:51 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

I felt my response to S_S "How wasn't it a PL" was fairly obviously rhetorical, as I explained my premise immediately after.
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Post Post #272 (isolation #11) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:59 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Basically tell him that I'm not taking the bogus of 'it wasn't a PL'. Like I really don't think there's another answer to it. In most cases I'd probably go "and Dunnstral is being scummy for suggesting it" but I'm convinced that it was a stupid move in this case, not a scum one.

Though it seems your dragging my want to not talk about the semantics of a PL through the mud.
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Post Post #274 (isolation #12) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:00 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Did he?
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Post Post #278 (isolation #13) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:04 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

So yeah none of that really makes a difference to me at least since 6/7 are just fluff/RVS and the 100 post thing is a prod dodge. Unless Dunn's going to claim there was something scummy there, there's really nothing more to it.

Like I guess that brings in disinterest (I was initially under the belief that he, like me, just didn't see the game thread open) but I'm not seeing anything there worth scumreading.
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Post Post #280 (isolation #14) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:06 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Do we have to? Like now it brings up 'is lynching lurkers a policy lynch' if we're pursuing that but it's so far off the original point it's just not worth it.
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Post Post #285 (isolation #15) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:27 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 283, borkjerfkin wrote:
In post 181, Aj The Epic wrote:On the bright side, Dunn is town. This is like the first time I actually believe it too, but his actions around it show actual suspicion, something I don't see in scum games of his.
Since you did bring up why you think Dunn is "being stupid instead of scummy": talk to me about your town read here because I feel like you decided really definitively on this early with only the vaguest of explanations.

And since you brought up meta I need to see the counterexamples you used to get to this.
So the main counterexample I have is Nhadia's Trial of the Evoker http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=69209 Dunn's ISO is a literal metric fluffton :) of posts that don't really have a suspicion behind it early on.

To note scum team in this game is Dunn/Pisskop/BATORU.

It's just a serious difference to see Dunn A.) More reserved and B.) much more questioning/prodding.

Spoiler:
In post 34, Dunnstral wrote:I don't think I've ever seen "us" be used as "Us, the mafia" before

Beyond that, It's pretty scummy to make a big deal out of it. I know from experience this kind of accusation tends to be bought by that one guy who then tunnels on it for the whole game so this goes well beyond rvs
In post 36, Dunnstral wrote:I think seiko is scummy there too. That's not rvs, that's early shade on something that wasn't scummy. A false slip

Syryana's hop on doesn't inspire confidence, either
In post 46, Dunnstral wrote:Feel free to start an early wagon that isn't based off a disgusting misrep. You should be wagoning one of sekio and Syryana. Why aren't you? What harm does having an early wagon do? Why does it have to be on Charloux, in your opinion?
In post 97, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 89, Syryana wrote:What in the actual FUCK people?

STOP FUCKING CLAIMING.
You don't seem fazed at all by my claim. Shouldn't it change the basis of your case on me?


Like honestly if I had played with Dunn before Trials I think it would've been so painfully obvious. Bygones though, I wouldn't have caught pisskop ever.
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Post Post #289 (isolation #16) » Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:00 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 287, Dunnstral wrote:Aj that meta you brought up - did you look at that to figure I was town early in this game? I think that's what you're saying
Did I use your posting Trials to help with my read here? Yes.
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Post Post #317 (isolation #17) » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:27 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 314, borkjerfkin wrote:You're interesting in that you're probably the one slot that actually has polarized opinions from people.
I'd say SxN is a bit polarizing too. Like their post 184 felt stupid as hell for taking my post as an attack on Bork. Like 224 they come out and say "this is what town-aj would do" but neither one of them has played with me as town in over 2 years. Which is why that post just feels all around awful to me. And the icing to me is:
In post 227, Seiko x Naomi wrote:AJ also continues to focus almost entirely exclusively on his TOB read without paying much attention to anything else in the game (i.e. he hasn't given any stance on the wagon on me which has existed since pretty much the start of the game) - his posts across the last page now that he came back were basically him answering a direct question from S_S, and then talking about flavor and backing up the TOB read again.

also, I'm fine with S_S posts so far.

Which is just... bullshit.
Syryana wrote:
Why vote AJ? A lot of it's gut. Some of it is that I feel he's said a fair number of words without actually saying anything. The whole PL thing was fluffy as fuck and basically led nowhere. The only thing of substance I see in his ISO is the Dunn thing but meh because he was in that game. I also still hate his
and he hasn't actually mentioned TOB since.
(Actually I lied he said something about them in but that means his whole schtick with them went nowhere so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
So using Syrana's own post, I can claim it's bullshit. My reasoning for that was as stated in 231, I had nothing else to point out with them other than the posts I highlighted.

And the real fucking kicker is this: I HAVE 3 POSTS between SxN's address in 187 and Sxn's complaint in 227. One of which is a direct response to Notty, and the ONLY continuation of that conversation in any form. The three?
Spoiler:
In post 192, Aj The Epic wrote:I'm more or less asking what about their posts made you think TOB is town, since those posts gave me the opposite impression. And no, I'm not 'suspecting bork'.
In post 214, Aj The Epic wrote:
In post 212, Shadow_step wrote:
In post 143, Aj The Epic wrote:
Dunnstral wrote:Wouldn't mind lynching shadow-step at the moment
Why? You'd advocate a PL 2 days into d1?
This is the pathetic attempt to make something look worse than it actually is.

When Dunn replies to him he just avoids answering it which is even worse.
wrote:"In post 147, Dunnstral"]
In post 143, Aj The Epic wrote:
Dunnstral wrote:Wouldn't mind lynching shadow-step at the moment
Why? You'd advocate a PL 2 days into d1?
Never said anything about pl
How is it anything but a policy lynch? You had yet to post, which by definition makes it a PL. I wasn't going to argue it with Dunn because denial is a strong thing but that's nothing but a PL.
In post 218, Aj The Epic wrote:It could be a balance thing. I didn't get my first character choice though admittedly that character is insanely popular across two blizzard games. Would it be pertinent to check if it was a balance choice or already selected character via claiming the ungotten first character? Since I selected mine literally dead last, I could claim the one I didn't get and solve it right away.

Also I did like 45/48 because I consider progressing an RVS wagon a town thing to do. 57/Raven's next post was what I took issue to because I thought Syrana's post and vote on Dunnstral was pretty minor.


So I mean exhibit A of being really badly reaching when making a read.

Speaking of scum...
In post 311, Obvious Alt wrote:Pausing after the end of page 7, fatigue. At present, SRs on Charloux and Shadow. I'd have a TR on Bork, but respect for his experience makes me wary to the point of null so far. Syryana looks Town. Dunn strikes me as maybe Town.
Like I don't get these reads... specifically the bork one, which is basically an admission to have someone that should be townread thrown to face paranoia. You don't downgrade a lynch off of what seems to be baseless paranoia. Sryana being the strongest townread is really strange. S_S has made 3 posts (RVS vote, fluff, prod dodge) at this point. SxN isn't mentioned at all, one of the more active members (esp. considering he read Shadow who had 3 posts). Also Char's role claim is already out there so there could easily be scum motivation in lynching before we get the chance to test that.

VOTE: Obvious Alt
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Post Post #318 (isolation #18) » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:30 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

@Mod plz fix the first spoiler tag.


I should mention the reason OA first is because SxN's interactions don't actually necessarily make sense with OA as a partner, but OA makes sense with Syrana and going after Charloux is BLATANTLY anti-town.

I guess the argument for SxN first would be Charloux's revive would be more impactful to the town thus far if SxN flips town but confidence says OA.

Done!
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Post Post #321 (isolation #19) » Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:13 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

"I don't get what you don't like about my reads"

next post

"Now fuck off about my reads"

Look, regardless of how good you think Bork is as scum, that's no justification to null out a town read. At page 7, I HIGHLY CONTEST that you have a meta scum read on shadow. I've heard that shadow lurks regardless of alignment. Go ahead and show me what in those first three posts gives you a scum read. I still don't think that you can get a read there and then avoid both SXN and TOB.
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Post Post #338 (isolation #20) » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:08 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 335, borkjerfkin wrote:
In post 317, Aj The Epic wrote:I'd say SxN is a bit polarizing too. Like their post 184 felt stupid as hell for taking my post as an attack on Bork. Like 224 they come out and say "this is what town-aj would do" but neither one of them has played with me as town in over 2 years. Which is why that post just feels all around awful to me. And the icing to me is:
sorry after that ship has sailed
Still doesn't change that pie's scumread on me was bullshit.
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Post Post #341 (isolation #21) » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:10 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

I was referring to 227.
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Post Post #345 (isolation #22) » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:20 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

You realize my point for 227 is I simply hadn't been tunneling TOB and so pie's statement was a lie.
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Post Post #347 (isolation #23) » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:08 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Pie was implying I was tunneling TOB. Are you telling me that's what you see?
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Post Post #370 (isolation #24) » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:33 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 362, Syryana wrote:Because the timing on this counterwagon is weird AF.
So unless you're calling Dunn scum here, what you're just saying is OA's vote is bad. If there was going to be a scum counterpush to me here, wouldn't that happen BEFORE bork votes, not after?
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Post Post #373 (isolation #25) » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:12 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Syrana's point of this being a counterwagon (of 2...) is just shade tossing unless he's gonna come out and say something. It's also badly timed for a counterwagon anyways.
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Post Post #388 (isolation #26) » Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:54 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Yeah, I noticed.
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Post Post #396 (isolation #27) » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:10 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Syr I'm hoping you've realized by now that OA is scum. And that there's 100% more likelihood of a red flip there than me. And that I'm pretty sure I could tell you water's wet at this point and you'd still think I was lying.

Like in post 375 you allude to/mention a ton of issues with the way the last page has gone for me being scum. No prior runup wagon, only a 'wagon' starting after Bork (generally most town-read player) votes me. General doubts and no actual solid case on me having this wagon exist at L-1 makes less than zero sense. Just general "meh he's awkward" which, guess what? You KNOW I'm awkward regardless.

Compared to OA's, whose reads suck, who suddenly gets super fucking defensive on it when he notices who called it out, and whose vote screams inability to actually have the balls to call intent. He obviously wasn't liking me given his 'fuck off' response, so you'd assume he's placing me as scum. Odd that he avoids that wagon.

Also you igored Dunn off of gut town reading when your own explanation for scumreading me started with "a lot of it's gut"
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Post Post #411 (isolation #28) » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:00 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 408, Shadow_step wrote:
In post 384, borkjerfkin wrote:this all looks a bit "let me fit this evidence to the conclusion I already came up with"
This ^
Join me on the Dunn wagon.
So when are you voting OA?
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Post Post #431 (isolation #29) » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:07 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

I mean it's really irrelevant because if OA is scum, Syr is partner, not S_S. OA outright townreads Syr, Syr's opinion is leanscum/null but has that post where he appeals to keep OA, even if it's more a joke than anything else. While he calls the OA jump bad, he's still using it as an incrimination to me. If I flip town, guess what? OA's not my partner, which was the basis of the post in 375 for either Dunn or OA (dunn == ballsiest partner ever, OA == laziest partner). And he's not sure of me, thinks OA looks worse than Dunn but won't move.

To me, this is the cut/dry partner to OA, not S_S
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Post Post #464 (isolation #30) » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:39 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 457, Syryana wrote:So, unvoting a scumread to follow that scumread onto another almost-as-scum read makes me...scum?
You know what I really love? People straw-manning whatever I say.

They ain't equal reads and tbh nothing you've said towards me is demonstrated conviction.
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Post Post #558 (isolation #31) » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:12 pm

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If I thought you were making up a read on me, I'd be voting you because you'd be scum, Pie. Your read that I was tunneling TOB was garbage, not made up. There's a distinction there. And that distinction unfortunately wrecks like 90% of your points. Specifically you wondering why I'm voting OA over you shouldn't really be a point anyways (OA's response was in a different dimension of bad, considering he decided to be unreasonable with me after seemingly deciding to explain himself first). Yeah I'mma fight your "Aj's tunneling TOB" statement. What kinda tunnel goes "Yeah I have nothing more to address with TOB for now" after two or three posts? For the basis of your read on me, it seems pretty self-explanatory why I think that read is atrocious.

You go on to talk about how I don't try to change your mind on me. I very rarely address reads on me. Or... at least recently I haven't been bothering in any of my games because it's too fucking boring to argue about the one known constant to me. All it leads to is a bunch of WIFOM especially when it comes to meta or "I think he'd do this" sort of statements. Why don't I try to get you over your read on me? Because I couldn't care less with your read on me. It also makes this game a hell of a lot easier if people use me as a wagon since I don't have to guess if it's a wagon on town or scum. Ergo, I don't really care if I end up getting run up.

Specifically with my post on OA, you make up some semantics on how me saying "scum reading S_S with 3 posts while no read on Dunn is bad" when I should just say "S_S read is bad". What does it matter, really? To me, as bad as the S_S read was, not having a read on TOB or you is more perplexing. Not having an opinion is just a lack of trying. If OA flips red, I need to know WHAT CAUSES a distinct lack of reads there. There's no reason to stop at "reading S_S as scum here is bad" because that's far too shallow in the issues in that post. Really, you set it up as me being scum and attacking OA, all I see here is you trying to fit me into an alignment with no basis. The information
I
want involves connections like why OA would avoid mentioning you/TOB. I could shout that it's stylistic but really it's common sense. "Why are you scumreading S_S" answered with can be answered with 'gut' and the best you get is someone saying 'that's a weak reason'. Cute, what's that actually do you? Unless you have a lot of those marks, all you get is general disapproval.

With 396 in particular, I'm not particularly interested in Syr's scum read (as explained above, not interested in fighting them). My belief is that Syr did not play the sequence out naturally. Reading into his posts, he acted suspicious at what had occurred, but his reasoning wasn't sound and reinforced my idea that OA and Syr could be a pair. (This reason is because in my town flip at an L-1 lynch, him calling OA/Dunn a partner of mine makes no fucking difference. If he wanted to push again, it'd be as a 'you white knighted Aj' sort of deal, meaning regardless of how to pursue either Dunn or OA in that situation, it would require throwing out the reason to cast suspicion in the first place). Is there reason for him not to unvote? Sure, but to lack any reconsidering (as alluded to), no, he's suggested such that I'd expect suspicion where none was found..
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Post Post #587 (isolation #32) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:46 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 480, The Oxford Bubbles wrote:I don't want to lynch OA today. I feel I can work with them.
...? Okay, how so? Disregard that slot's been replaced and let's pretend we've got OA sitting around and lurking for a moment. How did you feel you were going to be able to work with OA? I got the exact opposite impression for obvious reasons.
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Post Post #589 (isolation #33) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:01 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

I already see where this is going and so I'm going to ask you right now to explain that S_S read.
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Post Post #590 (isolation #34) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:02 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Because honestly that's super fucking convenient on your part.
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Post Post #592 (isolation #35) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:11 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Through 10, you'd put SxN lower than Syr?
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Post Post #594 (isolation #36) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:14 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In your mind, where is OA in that?
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Post Post #602 (isolation #37) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:40 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Somehow I can't agree with that assessment.
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Post Post #632 (isolation #38) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:48 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

The way he does reads lists is also a pet peeve of mine. It's a hell of a lot of paraphrasing and summary that normally just is strawmanning whatever the target said. Here is really no different.
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Post Post #634 (isolation #39) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:54 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Talking about persivul's reasoning on shadow.

This post:
In post 610, Persivul wrote: & - rvs
- claims will catch up, buddies up to pie
- game's been going on 4-1/2 days, still no content.
- makes a really easy scum read
- the
oops I scum read him, I should have voted him
vote
- false bravado
& - filler
- admits he hadn't really read the thread closely, was just picking on syry as an easy target - this is making me question my syry read
- you give reads on charloux, bork, and AJ without reasons - you think that's scummy when others do it, right?
- weak attempt at finding an issue
- This is bizarre. In the same post you say you know nothing about the flavor, and also note that you needed to send in characters, acknowledging that you had to do at least a little research and learn something about the flavor
- A different time zone doesn't explain several days with no real contribution.

I see several scummy things and not a single townie thing so far.
...Like... It's just not good. Format isn't conclusive to helping, and note how he takes EVERYTHING as something bad. Highly unlikely considering if everything S_S had said was scummy or bad as suggested, he'd be lynched far before. It's a case made to fit his vote, not the other way around.
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Post Post #655 (isolation #40) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:33 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Why take a conceding lynch that literally allows scum to get away free with a vote?
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Post Post #657 (isolation #41) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:41 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

I'll take real information from a lynch over a town oneshot role any day.
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Post Post #659 (isolation #42) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:52 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

What if it does nothing?

No cop-outs.
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Post Post #682 (isolation #43) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:29 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Like semi-full disclosure, I'm pretty sure my role isn't relevant to my hero. I think there might be something I'm missing (interaction between characters at night) but as of right now it's just completely pointless and... not completely related to my hero.
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Post Post #684 (isolation #44) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:33 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Ok so lynching charloux == bad. All it does is guarantee a NK on said person if it's town.
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Post Post #705 (isolation #45) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:24 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

If we're giving Persivul the night, TOB is the two I'd fall back. Mainly TOB's complete belief that he could 'work with' OA is so incredibly off base to me not only because of OA's offputting bullshit, but also because TOB has 0 interaction (flat none) to back that up. There's no talking between them and TOB only talks about OA after I brought up OA as a major scum read.
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Post Post #802 (isolation #46) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:15 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

VOTE: TOB
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Post Post #807 (isolation #47) » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:42 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

If this is town shadow, the team is nigh 100% persivul/TOB.
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Post Post #946 (isolation #48) » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:57 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Why? You know very well my opinion on your slot.

Dunnstral knew full well he was caught. His vote on you seems pure wifom.
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Post Post #948 (isolation #49) » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:27 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Give me a reason to not scum read you. Didn't you say you could "Prove you were town"?
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Post Post #951 (isolation #50) » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:03 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

I read the thread. I was expecting more.

TOB full claim or death. Tomorrow's LYLO, we're massclaiming today.
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Post Post #953 (isolation #51) » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:16 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

No I knew you were a double voter, I was expecting your grand scheme of showing us how town you were to involve more.
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Post Post #955 (isolation #52) » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:26 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Because OA was really fucking scummy. So I had expectations that you were willing to flip that entire read.
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Post Post #958 (isolation #53) » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:52 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

I haven't hammer you, have I?

I want TOB's claim. Then Syr's. Then SxN's. We're getting a mass claim done today and then we'll go forward with a lynch.
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Post Post #960 (isolation #54) » Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:32 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Funny time for TOB to be afk eh?
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Post Post #966 (isolation #55) » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:58 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 962, The Oxford Bubbles wrote:Persivul as scum could instantly hammer anyone Dunnstral chose to make Hated. Dunnstral chose Persivul. That doesn't make sense if Dunnstral knew he was caught. Not knowing he was caught, it wouldn't make sense to push for Persivul's lynch. Persivul should be town in both situations.
Is this right?

~ Raven
No, because the next day wouldn't be LYLO so you can't quickhammer regardless. It's basically a game of finding out how much thought Dunnstral put into choosing to make Persivul hated. Was the risk worth the possible clear? Or did he just want to encourage more suspicion?

Also your hydra partner's again being counterproductive.
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Post Post #971 (isolation #56) » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:09 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 968, The Oxford Bubbles wrote:Aj I am not being counter productive, I am trying to solve the game and find mafia! Tell me how I'm makin the mafia win?? huh??
Voting town would be the first piece of evidence...
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Post Post #973 (isolation #57) » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:25 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

There's nothing sneaky here. I'm town. You may not be.

Now I'd really appreciate this hydra claiming.
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Post Post #980 (isolation #58) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:25 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Yeah just claim. If it comes up later, it'll just look like verification.
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Post Post #981 (isolation #59) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:55 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Jesus christ guys. We have 12 days but we don't need to lurk all of them through.
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Post Post #984 (isolation #60) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:18 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Granted only one head is actually good at staying on topic.
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Post Post #988 (isolation #61) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:36 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Is it... useful to this?
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Post Post #992 (isolation #62) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:05 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Why do you need someone to claim this shit before you? Like I'm assuming your claim is going to need a targeted ability interaction based off 977 but your role is your role regardless, the PM doesn't change depending on what someone else says here.
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Post Post #997 (isolation #63) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:12 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

This is some serious moonlogic on 'how to not claim first'.

You're claiming regardless of someone having this ability. What's it matter when?
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Post Post #999 (isolation #64) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:21 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

I want to be a pain in the ass because your trying to be cryptic but assume I have an ability that has the potential to do what you're looking for.
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Post Post #1001 (isolation #65) » Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:25 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Guarantee it's only me.
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Post Post #1006 (isolation #66) » Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:24 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Persivul/SxN just comply with this so we can get the claim.
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Post Post #1015 (isolation #67) » Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:27 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

SYR you should claim regardless.
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Post Post #1017 (isolation #68) » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:24 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

technically SxN by my list but for the sake of time...

I'm Brightwing. I'm a compulsive targeter The role literally does nothing else.
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Post Post #1019 (isolation #69) » Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:30 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

I honestly was expecting a more explicit interaction from TOB's role. While waiting, I was thinking it was largely Syr just cuz a close-tailored interaction with my role would suggest town because otherwise why the hell would I compulsively target him? I've prodded SxN and Bork respectively trying to see if my role would do anything.
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Post Post #1023 (isolation #70) » Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:28 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In fact I'm not even a fruit vendor. SxN can confirm if they received a note saying they were targeted, but I'm pretty sure not even THAT part gets noted.

P-edit: No using the govern should NOT happen. It puts us in Mylo tomorrow with no flip. Verifying Syr's role exists isn't the point. More of having his claim to note any obvious balance issues.
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Post Post #1024 (isolation #71) » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:10 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

For targeting, I wonder if being governed wouldn't trigger it as well... Bork, myself, Charl, S_S have targeted abilities of some sort right now so there are decent ways to trigger it.
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Post Post #1032 (isolation #72) » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:11 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Assuming a 3 person LYLO, scum, you and another... Scum just kills that 'another'.
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Post Post #1041 (isolation #73) » Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:52 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Well what's flavor cop got from you, how does that match up with what's said?

Also, TOB/Syr? Which one?
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Post Post #1043 (isolation #74) » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:23 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Persivul shouldn't be our lynch target.
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Post Post #1045 (isolation #75) » Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:06 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

VOTE: TOB
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Post Post #1057 (isolation #76) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:57 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

We have days. Raven, SxN all need to catch up and participate.
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Post Post #1060 (isolation #77) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:27 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Your claim makes the least sense, Dunn has gone after Syr fairly hard and wanted to lynch OA for some non-factor response to a prod.
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Post Post #1070 (isolation #78) » Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:59 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 1066, Seiko x Naomi wrote:I need time to think and talk to pie. I kinda had a long weekend (I work at *insert sports bar franchise* and last weekend was *insert biggest sports event of the year*) so this is the first I've had a minute to think.
"I work at Hooters and last weekend was The Dafabet Masters Snooker Finals"
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Post Post #1072 (isolation #79) » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:10 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 1071, The Oxford Bubbles wrote:
In post 1060, Aj The Epic wrote:Your claim makes the least sense, Dunn has gone after Syr fairly hard and wanted to lynch OA for some non-factor response to a prod.
Why does our claim make the least sense?
In post 1069, Persivul wrote:You're all caught up, and that's all you have to say?
Yes. I don't see anything else I can comment on. My reads haven't changed. If you disagree with something I've said, let me know.

~ Raven
We already have a basic "odd night doctor" who if they paired with you, would make you fully immune to nightkills by your claim. There's 1xpublic cop and a strong reporter (2x results per action) AND a 1 x flavor cop. All of these are fairly weak (don't equal the power of an actual cop) but have pretty good signaling with each other through Bork's role. Governor is needed to balance hated+double vote issues, and that combination is too disgusting for scum to have in tandem imo. Having Scum Governor + scum hated invalidates town lynching super hard because Dunn could hide power and no way on earth would we figure out WHY someone was becoming hated. +Gambits are pretty strong that way.
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Post Post #1074 (isolation #80) » Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:50 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

It's an effective VT without being a VT. It also serves to neutralize power in Bork's tracking.
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Post Post #1077 (isolation #81) » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:50 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Like letting scum have 2 of the 3 vote dictating powers is pretty insane considering that's the best town power... I'm not sure which makes less sense, a scum double voter + scum hate inducer or a scum governor + hate inducer. The second one is counterintuitive but makes for some excellent gambits. More importantly, why does scum get a governor when they straight up win lylo situations with it?

P-edit: Syrana, you're better than that.................................................
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Aj The Epic
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Post Post #1080 (isolation #82) » Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:28 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Notty is kinda the most important piece here but...

Like goddamn where would we be if we didn't massclaim today?
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Aj The Epic
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Post Post #1082 (isolation #83) » Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:14 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

Who would you lynch, claims not withstanding?
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Post Post #1088 (isolation #84) » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:42 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 1085, Persivul wrote:
In post 1084, Seiko x Naomi wrote:I still want Persi dead.
I'm a double-voter, which per the wiki is almost always town.
But it could possibly be scum.

Flipped scum made me hated.
That could be wifom.


Scum!Pers could hammer someone now, then kill you tonight.
Uh...more wifom?


I get that you're too deep in the tunnel to come out. I'm just posting this so that, if you're town and we lose, you don't have an excuse in the after game.
Because again, what better way does scum!pers have to get lynched tomorrow than to hammer off town.
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Post Post #1146 (isolation #85) » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:17 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

At the same time, no one in the town really helped the cause that much... OA was really fucking scummy, bubbles wasn't interested and I was completely off. Then we lynched a bunch of vote-affecting roles for some random ass reason. Oh well. Notty's gotten a lot better at playing scum from the last I remember.
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