Micro 675: Heroes of the Storm uPick - Game Over!

[Seiko x Naomi]

I'm probably just going to let notty do his thing for a few pages while I let the game breathe.

anyway, bork, you town?

[Seiko x Naomi]

VOTE: Aj the Epic

Wagering millers must die.

I have no idea what game you're talking about.

<_>

[Seiko x Naomi]

if we're doing mass flavor claim it absolutely needs to be everyone, not just half the players. that said, after seeing 19, I'm in agreement with holding off for now.

[Seiko x Naomi]

VOTE: Seiko x Naomi

You alive ns?

NOTTY!

*glomp*

I would like to discuss the pros/cons of mass flavor claiming.

I enjoy mass flavorclaims.

But I enjoy massclaims in general.

Pros- There might be some role interactions with regards to flavor, it limits claims down the line,

it quells my curiosity as to who you all picked

, and maybe if all the stars align and we pay a blood sacrifice we could catch scum? (I doubt a upick will have its flavors be alignment indicative without solid fakeclaims in place.)

Cons- There's probably some roles that, thanks to flavor, are inherently overpowered and claiming characters will give scum (provided they have an inkling of knowledge of the source material this game was based off of) a road map on who to kill. (Of course, this could be balanced out by town power, and of course is purely conjecture)

I think it's a good way people to do things without actually doing things though.

Ultimately I think it's going to be much ado about nothing at best and a distraction at worst

^

[Seiko x Naomi]

Also on the list of distractions is playing guess the alt.

It's kinda sad that these are things I know I love to do in games.

<_< >_>

[Seiko x Naomi]

But what prevents us from fakeclaiming?

But what prevents

us

from fakeclaiming?

But what prevents

us

from fakeclaiming?

Hey buddy

What's up with this?

[Seiko x Naomi]

I've skimmed on my phone, have to actually sit-

@Syry- My thought process was actually twofold. The chance of it actually being a scumslip was slim, but what I was curious about is at worst it IS a scumslip and at best it says he thinks town have reasons to lie in a mass flavorclaim, or any massclaim at all and that needs to be addressed now rather than later. Town have no reason to lie. At all.

I swear if either of you two bring up that 4 letter name I will smite you

Town have no reason to lie, scum do. Simple as that.

More thoughts when I have more time.

[Seiko x Naomi]

first things first, I don't think bork is scum. I could easily be wrong on this since I have misread him very badly in the past, but in general I think the most apparent tell with him is that when he's scum a lot of his posts and reads are just really flat and going-through-the-motions and I don't see that here (the read on Syr falls in pretty direct contrast to it). I also think that most of the more subtle things he's posting about are pretty reasonable, i.e. 120 about Dunn. I will likely revisit this if I have reason to question it later.

second, Charl is town. I don't think 87 comes from scum, and beyond that I'm fine with his posts in general. I pretty obviously disagree with notty's read here; ideally I'd let him handle it himself, but if he continues not to be here poke me again and I can talk more about it.

TOB's push on Syr is terrible, but I am not sure that it is terrible in a scummy way. I want an explanation for their town read on OA, though.

I don't have any town read on Dunn; I don't have any issues with the bulk of his push on us (save potentially the post bork pointed out), but it's nowhere near unfakeable.

AJ's 128 is really underwhelming and since notty seems to be gone/not have a vote down I'm going ahead and voting here.

vote: AJ

bork, when you're around can we talk about Syr?

[Seiko x Naomi]

at best it says he thinks town have reasons to lie in a mass flavorclaim, or any massclaim at all and that needs to be addressed now rather than later. Town have no reason to lie. At all.

You and your partner have played far far far too many games for me to believe you actually mean this.

VOTE: Seiko x Naomi

for what it's worth, I agree with you that notty's stance here is wrong; do you want me to talk more about it or do you want to sort it out with him directly?

[Seiko x Naomi]

I'm around-ish, a lot of people are going to bed. What do you want to talk about?

(When did you misread me badly? Tales of you?)

I generally agree that his posts aren't scummy, and that his opening was either a legitimate reaction test or him feigning a reaction test, but I don't know if I see why the way he did it is more likely the former than the latter. can you walk me through it in more depth?

(and yeah, that. <- still wishes that game never happened)

[Seiko x Naomi]

FWIW I was hoping for more of an NS presence early game -- I find him easier to read than you (I don't feel that I've ever really had a game where I was super wrong about him)

notty's RL is really busy. I think he should be around at some point or another, but regardless, I was only even able to drag him into this game because you were in it. <_>

[Seiko x Naomi]

I don't have any town read on Dunn; I don't have any issues with the bulk of his push on us (save potentially the post bork pointed out), but it's nowhere near unfakeable.

Really? Even after that last game?

I mean, the last game you were making a push on me that was really obviously contrived.

I think "I'm weirded out by notty's 'slip'" is a lot more reasonable than anything you did in that game, given notty's angle was pretty clearly wrong. either way, I do think you would be capable of making the same push as scum, hence why I say it isn't unfakeable and that I don't think you're town for it.

[Seiko x Naomi]

the way he reached out to me specifically as if i was in danger of dissecting the issue too much before people talked about it fully. I don't think scum would have cared if i did that.

I don't feel that 71 feels like a backpedal because people didn't like him jumping on the wagon, it feels like an earnest mindset.

I don't know how to better explain it. A lot of people seem to want to shoot down this townread without doing anything other than replace it with nothing substantial.

I don't agree with this. I think he'd be more than aware that he couldn't just make up a "reaction test" without following through and actually treating it like one.

besides that, it isn't that I just want to shoot down your read for no reason; I just don't have the same sense you do at this point in the game and am hoping to 1. refine my read and make it easier for me to come to the same conclusion as you later if he is town, 2. try to interact with you to hopefully firm up my read on you some.

second, Charl is town. I don't think 87 comes from scum, and beyond that I'm fine with his posts in general. I pretty obviously disagree with notty's read here; ideally I'd let him handle it himself, but if he continues not to be here poke me again and I can talk more about it.

I think you should talk more about it; 87 is, by his own admission, not a legitimate claim. Why is this a slam dunk town post for you?

I think notty, no offense, has a stick up his ass about people lying when they shouldn't be or, generalized, doing things that he perceives as anti-town or bad play that they shouldn't do. he's absolutely right about a lot of things (spam posting being a huge issue for him), but he's wrong about the issue here (that lying during a mass claim is always a bad thing).

I'm pretty sure he realizes that his original point was weak in terms of scum reading Charl, but I didn't really see any reason to get in the way of it when it could generate pressure/discussion (which is something Charl himself pointed out).

anyway, about 87, it read to me as a very tongue-in-cheek way of saying "all of you people who take these claims at face value are dumb", which is a thought process that 1. strikes me as somewhat more unlikely from scum, but also 2. even if he thought along those lines as scum I don't think he'd be likely to express it by fake claiming; it'd have been a lot easier to just say as much and complain hoping to seek town cred from it.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I literally was completely certain you were town, the entire game, even after I died, to the point where even when I got weirded out on Nacho I'd go back and look at your posts and go "OK bork was town" and calm down. so, forgive me. <_>

I am pretty OK with your posts so far in this game, but I'm nowhere near sure about it at this point. I do think if you're town I'll be able to figure it out with some amount of confidence eventually.

[Seiko x Naomi]

do you disagree with what I wrote in the last paragraph of 151?

[Seiko x Naomi]

I think town-him would be likely to see people claiming, think "these claims are stupid", and make up a role and fake claim it to make some fun out of the situation. I think scum-him seeing people claiming and hoping to go for a "these claims are stupid" angle likely just complains about it it straight up, tries to seek town cred discouraging people from claiming, etc, especially given he's a newer player.

it kinda is gut to some extent, but it is what it is.

[Seiko x Naomi]

...

I honestly don't know what you want me to say, besides the fact that I swear it'll be obvious that I'm town here like it usually is if you give me enough time to actually get into the game. that was me giving a very tl;dr version of where I was at with the game after being in observation mode for the first 6 pages; do you want me to elaborate more on any of those reads, or... ?

[Seiko x Naomi]

OK, but I'm holding you to that.

whatever you do, please just don't turn this into another forest fire game where I felt like I was bleeding my soul into the game and people still didn't town read me because they were getting hung up on random crap that I had done, because I can't handle one of those right now.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I wasn't expecting you to, especially because a lot of the reason I chose to rest a few days in this game before coming in, posting where I was at and going from there was explicitly because I have that tendency to get hung up on stupid shit like I did in that game and I know how much it fucks over the game when that happens (and if it helps this is something I've had a tendency to do recently because I find it gives me much better reads, e.g. FG's recent large dance, I just did it a lot more explicitly here).

it's just, ugh.

(and thank you )

[Seiko x Naomi]

I think TOB's 179 is actually pretty town as far as their mindset goes, ftr, but I won't comment any further until Syr's done with his line of questioning.

[Seiko x Naomi]

AJ's 181 feels really forced and is very similar to the kinds of pushes I like to make when I'm scum: find some read that someone has that you can nitpick on and call them scum because "I don't see the logic behind their read" (I'm pretty sure notty remembers when I pulled this on him in a game where he was being dumb wrt a scum read on Tammy once). there are scenarios where someone does have a read that is legitimately off and is worth pushing over, but bork's read doesn't seem incongruous at all and I'm not exactly sure how he can find it so problematic that someone would believe "someone saw a jump on an RVS wagon they weren't comfortable with and freaked out over a quicklynch" as a read someone would hold, even if they disagree with it.

I'm not even 100% bork is town or anything like that, but *if* he is scum it isn't for that.

[Seiko x Naomi]

he seems to be explicitly implying he thinks bork is scum for it ("doesn't sit well with me"). if I'm wrong, he can correct me.

[Seiko x Naomi]

huh I guess it's just worded in a weird way.

in that case, why exactly is it scummy that their Syr read never changed? i.e. what part of it reads as disingenuous and why would you have expected it to have changed?

[Seiko x Naomi]

I also still think the post reads like a scum post tonally, but probably not as relevant of a point.

[Seiko x Naomi]

@S_S: I don't have a town read on Syr, but what do your reads outside of Syr look like?

[Seiko x Naomi]

I would rather the people who are lurking the fuck out of the game actually show up and start posting things. I do have at least some sort of town read on all of {bork, Charl, TOB}, but, ugh.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I also still think the post reads like a scum post tonally, but probably not as relevant of a point.

I need this elaborated on

two things:

1. "so I find this post a bit odd on re-read" is a very, very, very, very weak way of stating that he feels TOB is scum/that he disagrees with your read. I think regardless of how he does it, town-him would come straight up and say something along the lines of "I disagree with bork's read" or "I don't like how they handled the Charl wagon", aka anything where he takes a firm stance either way on it. the way he did it doesn't feel like he's trying to make any wave in the game, it's really reminiscent of the kinds of posts I see scum making when they want to interject themselves into the conversation in a way that looks natural and doesn't draw too much attention onto themselves.

I don't know if I'm explaining this well at all, if I'm not let me know and I can try again. also, before you ask, yeah it is somewhat rare for me to tone read like this but I'm *usually* right about it when I do - I can link other games where I've done so if you want;

2. I hate the way he tries to use TOB's Charl read "persisting needlessly" as a reason for them being scum; I don't really think TOB having a read on Charl that has happened to not change at all throughout the game is scummy, and the way they just threw it in there without thinking through it in any depth at all or elaborating just reads like scum hoping to bullshit another reason they can add on for TOB being scum ("omg he had a read that hasn't changed, that doesn't sit well with me because... ???"). I've asked him what, specifically, about TOB's read progression comes off as disingenuous to him, no answer.

I don't really think there's any agenda behind the post beyond "I need to figure out some read I can fake", but I don't think it's a post that needed to have been made strategically, either.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Either way I agree this is the one thing from Syr I probably don't like - instead of analyzing the claims or writing them off as jokes he just goes into "generic well behaved townie mode" to denounce them.

I didn't actually mind this, but I'm concerned about Syr for a different reason. I'm kinda on the fence whether I want to talk about it now, though (it's a kind of thing that I don't want to let him know he needs to fix if he's scum).

[Seiko x Naomi]

AJ also continues to focus almost entirely exclusively on his TOB read without paying much attention to anything else in the game (i.e. he hasn't given any stance on the wagon on me which has existed since pretty much the start of the game) - his posts across the last page now that he came back were basically him answering a direct question from S_S, and then talking about flavor and backing up the TOB read again.

also, I'm fine with S_S posts so far.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I'll be back tomorrow.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Hi friends.

[Seiko x Naomi]

it says he thinks town have reasons to lie in a mass flavorclaim, or any massclaim at all

zzzzzzz

I mean, I could just be *that* asshole and use this as a free pass to bullshit. It was something that should have been brought up.

Will catchup at some point.

Meanwhile, hello Pie!
I hope we can solve this game together.

YOU STAY AWAY FROM HER SHES MINE

I think what Bubbles meant to say is that you haven't shown clear town motivation.
I think Syryana action's have been safe and controlled. I don't think they look genuine.

~ Raven

man these obnoxious posting patterns are annoying af why would anyone ever do that

at best it says he thinks town have reasons to lie in a mass flavorclaim, or any massclaim at all and that needs to be addressed now rather than later. Town have no reason to lie. At all.

You and your partner have played far far far too many games for me to believe you actually mean this.

VOTE: Seiko x Naomi

Fight me. I'm not dealing with lying bullshit should it come time to massclaim. I clearly noted in that (or whatever fucking post it was) that I know there are reasons town lies. But why the fuck would town lie about flavor? I don't feel like playing this "what if" game because if it works out, great. If it doesn't, you fuck over the rest of the town. This is my first game back and I'm not trying to lose it because someone thinks its okay to lie.

I don't give a fuck if you hide your motives to reaction test or whatever the fuck it is, but it should be able to be explained at a later date and not be so goddamn questionable.

TOB's push on Syr is terrible

you're terrible

they're wrong

but you're terrible

FWIW I was hoping for more of an NS presence early game -- I find him easier to read than you (I don't feel that I've ever really had a game where I was super wrong about him)

insert work log here

I'm catching up at 4 am lol this is my life

VOTE: Aj

I agree with bork.

~ Raven

Thank you for this post it provided great insight into your sheeping vote of a player who didnt vote for said player.

which consists of two players that I consider better mafia players than I am

I'm garbino lol

You aren't wrong on the rest of this post though.

I think TOB's 179 is actually pretty town as far as their mindset goes, ftr, but I won't comment any further until Syr's done with his line of questioning.

AJ THE EPIC IS A MEANIE!!! OF COURSE WE SUPPORTED AN RVS WAGON IN RVS!!! HE'S JUST TRYING TA MAKE US LOOK BAD SO HE CAN MISLYNCH US!!!!!

- BUBBLES

You know, I originally thought you were dumb town

But now I'm not so convinced.

We have little miss priss over here speaking about how chaos is indicative of town and linearness is indicative of scum, then you just have these random fucking meltdowns and these votes using other peoples explanations which just so

conveniently

fits with what the other head is trying to mandate as town-indicative behavior.

That sounds like shit I'd do.

@S_S: I don't have a town read on Syr, but what do your reads outside of Syr look like?

shut up

This is the pathetic attempt to make something look worse than it actually is.

When Dunn replies to him he just avoids answering it which is even worse.

On the one hand, I really like this because there's no reason he should be going after the person discrediting his wagon if he were scum. On the other hand, AJ seems like low-hanging fruit and a viable target for scum to push when they are coming into the game a few steps behind.

I think he's more likely town, but I blatantly disagree with his syryana push.

I also pointed out 143, which as I said earlier would make a scumflip from S_S more damning of AJ.

I've been thinking about it a lot.

It's such a BAD discredit.

Like

If my scumbuddy EVER did something like that they would get bussed so fucking hard it would make their head spin

Is it bad? Yes

Does it tie them together? No. I think Shadow is town unless you think the post I quoted earlier was some strange distancing thing going on.

Unless you see like AJ/S_S being worried about you/me/syry linking up and plowing through the rest of the game so they needed an early bus to get shit solved, but I really doubt I'm that big of a concern. Maybe a bus could save them in a playlist where its more about who can be the most town but this playlist has a fair amount of sketchy slots so why the fuck worry about bussing when you could chase another one?

The tl;dr of this is I don't think one flip condemns the other. If any vote on this wagon is sketchy it's TOB. By far.

Also while im thinking about it (I need to reread bc I forgot who it was) someone brought up that it was scummy for someone to vote someone that isnt their highest priority scumread

The fuck its not

You vote to lynch scum, vanity wagons are bad. mmkay. (granted, I might have to start one sometime this game BUT STILL). I don't mind people saying x is their highest level scumread and settling for Y unless it persists for multiple days with no movement from them in an attempt to turn town's viewpoint.

Kay just read up on the thread and feel like I digested nothing.

I remember feeling like bork is town.

I'd let syry have my children.

I remember there was that guy who I called out for being a dumbsmurf that I think was just bad town

Then TOB has godawful trajectory and trying to shape their behaviours to fit the model of town that they imposed on us which noone seemed to have called out. at all.

There was shadow who called out someone discrediting a wagon on him which is moronic to say the least if he's scum so he's probably town

There was AJ who sounded awkward as shit but he always kinda sounds awkward as shit. I honestly need to review his ISO and talk to pie about this some because I'm not really confident in lynching him at all. I'd much rather be on a

vanity

TOB wagon.

Obvious Alt is sketchy as fuck. The read on Charloux in particular just bugs the hell out of me- On the one hand, they mention how this player has too much experience to be derping around then thinks they fall for one of the classic blunders? It's textbook negging and it's textbook SKETCH.

But one thing I will note is I feel like both anon alts are scum which probably means I'm wrong on one.

dunnstral apparently thinks we are scum because both pie and I have lives outside of this game and because I called out someone's poor theory? lol. I skimmed the ISO of the game AJ linked and

it looked familiar

I can kinda see the point he's making but his iso alone makes me feel so yucky.

Instead we got 91. Town makes 91.

Scum-me would claim an antitown role.

I don't like it at all. If even one of the three players in this anon hydra is remotely experienced enough they would have known to have claimed IMMEDIATELY in their first post. (That being said, dunnstrall is also guilty of this, but I still like AJ's meta standpoint) I don't necessarily buy their claim, to me it reminds me of Disney UPick where my other heads were posting and I found a bullshit way to push a D1 wagon and came in guns blazing and iirc I had some offhand reason /they/ didn't bring it up. So I suppose my real thing is here, I don't buy this. At all.

Town: Oxford

If your reasons are separate from Borks please explain them for me.

Because I do not like that slot.

At all.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I'm sad the only time I'm available everyone else is asleep.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I'll set my alarm to a decent time today so I can hopefully have a dialogue before work.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I think AJ is just manufacturing reasons to SR Ob Alt, he's on l-2 and thinks that he needs to make a counter wagon and Ob Alt looks the best bet right now.

I disagree, I feel like what he said outlined some of my misgivings too. Particularly how obv alt has a scumread on you as of page 7- I explicitly went back and double checked. You had all of three posts prior to page seven, and one was the post she linked. None of them seemed remotely alignment indicative, imo, so her trying to pass it off as such is weird. And avoiding commenting on the more prominent posters (particularly when its not even fluffposting) is strange too.

Also, the way they reacted to AJ's pressure (that aj called out) is sketchy too. It looks like scum who is stressed because people didn't believe their reads, then realized

who

did not believe their reads and realized it was better to act indignant.

Its really kneejerk and weird.

I think AJ is just manufacturing reasons to SR Ob Alt, he's on l-2 and thinks that he needs to make a counter wagon and Ob Alt looks the best bet right now.

Suppose AJ is town, and know he is town. Does he know Obv Alt's alignment- anyone's alignment other than his own? Isn't a 1/4 (again, assuming he is town from his vantage point) chance in finding scum in a lynch better than a 0%?

The gist of what I am trying to say is that Obv Alt IS sketchy, but if AJ is town, he KNOWS he is town whereas he can't say the same about the rest of the playerlist. So to that point, I don't particularly mind what he did.

To be frank, the only reason I'm still voting him is bc I don't feel like messing with pie's vote before we have a chance to talk about shit because I am not remotely confident in an AJ lynch at all.

I'm open to a TOB-alogue with you notty

What about them makes you townread them?

Like I will admit my initial thoughts regarding their push on you was bad town but at the same time, I really did not like their jump on the AJ wagon (they are the one vote on the wagon that I really do not like at all) because it essentially boils down to them sheeping another player before said other player has even placed a vote. It shows a lack of thinking for themselves which is one thing if its just one player (its not good then either) but another thing entirely if it seems like multiple heads agree on the front of sheeping bork without anything else substantial to add?

And I *really* don't like the "chaos" they ensue because it feels off and I understand part of this could be tonality from masking a main account but it seems like chaos for the sake of chaos, because it was brought up earlier.

And the last thing is their day one claim thing which I outlined before, I fail to see why scum wouldn't claim anti-town roles in order to gain towncred (or even fakeclaim a role that deters them from being targetted altogether). Yes, the role claimed was antitown but the gist of it was do not target me. There is plenty of motive for scum to claim a role like that, and I don't believe this whole "we didn't know the right time to claim" business, because if you /actually/ have an antitown role your first priority is to alert the town. I refuse to believe a hydra of three people does not have even ONE who brought this up.

TOB (notty i'm willing to engage on this but you've got a lot of convincing to do, I think you're seeing orchestration that isn't there and bubbles just likes to be really dramatic and silly)

I mean don't we all? You know I have my flair for that stuff too. But I'm not convinced it's not just a front to keep people from attempting to/being able to read deeper, along with what I've mentioned before.

some weird shit is going on.

QFT

Also have thoughts re the wagon that I'm sitting on.

[Seiko x Naomi]

PEDIT X INFINITY GODDAMNIT

You missed me, didn't you.

[Seiko x Naomi]

S_S is town, I think; his point on Dunn re: scum WK'ing a town player in order to leave them for a later mislynch makes a lot of sense given it is pretty much exactly what Dunn did in our last game with him (successfully). I have a lot of reservations about Dunn's play here even outside of how he's approaching AJ, too.

the scum pool I'm working with atm is {AJ, OA, Dunn}. I'm hoping to reconvene with notty sometime soon and work out the reads we disagree on.

bork, when you're around, can we talk?

[Seiko x Naomi]

Im awake a little longer

AJ is sending off really obvious scum signals to me, and I don't really think "AJ is just always awkward" is an excuse for it. I think what I'm seeing about him falls outside of that and if you're up for it, I'd like to go through his posts with you and talk about what I'm seeing/why you think his body of work looks town and whether I'm wrong to think this.

I'm trying to hash this out with notty atm, too, fwiw, so we should also have his opinion on it one way or the other sometime soon.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I'd like to go through his posts with you and talk about what I'm seeing/why you think his body of work looks town and whether I'm wrong to think this.

that's a big topic for 1AM; tomorrow?

kk.

[Seiko x Naomi]

i do not fucking get you

fwiw I don't have any problem with it, even though I'm curious to know why (and Dunn's posts are anything but good).

notty is screaming at me that I'm wrong as I make this post.

[Seiko x Naomi]

unrelated question: Dunn, what is your read on TOB?

[Seiko x Naomi]

I wonder if Seiko hydra even noticed my vote on them

unrelated question: Dunn, what is your read on TOB?

Town

why?

[Seiko x Naomi]

I don't think it matters

answer the question.

[Seiko x Naomi]

GUT

And their latest reads are good.

Well, the two I care about (three?)

did you not have any read on them at all up until that point?

[Seiko x Naomi]

I've thought they were town. I probably mentioned it near the beginning. I don't see where you got that from. And again, why it matters

I don't give the slightest fuck about whether you think "it matters" or not. I'm asking for a very specific reason that I don't want to out until after you've answered the question.

can you explain in more detail why you've had a town read on them? I've seen that you declared it earlier, now that I looked again, but I don't see any reason given for it anywhere.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Its okay syry i figured it out :>

[Seiko x Naomi]

I also dare tob to try it.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I also dare tob to try it.

Oh, so you're just throwing shade then and trying to make us look bad

Hint: I'm not the one who was questioning you

Hint: I'm the only fucking person in this game who seems to realize TOB's facade

Hint: TOB then magically flipped the read on us after I called them out and have been campaigning for their lynch

Hint: I don't let scum mislynch me

Hint: It's notsci

Let me explain very carefully what that post was.

I am town. The town's crayons have been breaking . No one sees that it is TOB! I point out that TOB is the big bad crayon breaker. Then TOB tries to flip around and say NO U. TOB can't tell you why he says it is me. I have told you why it is him. I ask him to square up and face me! After all, TOB seems happy with sheep after sheep. Maybe if they have to step up and provide proof, people will finally see they are the big bad crayon breaker!

[Seiko x Naomi]

Like ffs the only thing people seem to think is town from that slot is the stupid claim thing and I've already explained why it's bullshit

[Seiko x Naomi]

Dunn is voting me because I haven't interacted with Pie, OA is voting me because I told pie that I hope we would be able to solve he game together and TOB is voting me because they agree with Dunn(?)
I'm only interested in lynching Dunn or OA today.

Could I sell you on a TOB lynch my good man?

[Seiko x Naomi]

I want to give AJ until tomorrow to see if he does anything with the flips we get, but I am respecting pie's vote and wishes to discuss it further with you.

I refuse to lynch syry or you

AJ's meta on dunn looks concrete, granted it was one game but I haven't had time to search for more, he looks like spamposty scum-me in that game which is vastly different from his play here

Charl is testing my patience

I think the wagon on shadow is stupid as shit

so that leaves me comfortable lynching

Charl or OA should we not agree on TOB.

thoughts

[Seiko x Naomi]

i won't vote charloux, nothing he's said has looked to have any agenda behind it and he he's a low info lynch outside of that anyway. his recent stuff looks like bored town. if the worst you can say about him is that he's lurking, i don't really see where you're coming from

I have him in my pool because he's annoying me and I refuse to him into my bloc

he's a settle wagon. Ie, I'm not heartbroken to lynch him but I would much prefer his lynch to most others atm

[Seiko x Naomi]

(basically I see what you are saying, but if we cant come to an agreement)

[Seiko x Naomi]

I still would love for TOB to swing.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Things I don't like about TOB:

Their first non-sheep vote (outside of RVS) comes after I call them out on having predominantly sheep votes.

I think that one head is trying to assert chaos=town while the other head plays chaotically and attempts to portray bad town.

The OMGUS on me was laughable at best.

They did not claim anti-town roles in their first post. I refuse to believe NONE of them knew how to behave with an anti-town role. I understand that there are several different methods for which to use anti-town roles but I can't think of a single one that delays a claim just to claim before scum can be tricked into killing them/whatever. If anything their claim sounds like they are just scared of being targeted.

So no.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Honestly, and this sounds really dumb, but I've had syry as a lock-read since his reaction test. I fucking loved that shit.

Also syry calling me out. No way in hell scum-syry tries to go toe to toe with town-me and town-pie.

pedit
Why not

[Seiko x Naomi]

syry's a lock read for me and idr where he was for pie

[Seiko x Naomi]

Like it sounds like nothing but be real with me for a minute bork

Would you, as scum, try to take on me and pie? Would you draw that much attention to yourself from us in the early game?

[Seiko x Naomi]

Your vote was rvs iirc

If im wring let me know but i thought it was just sittin rvs

[Seiko x Naomi]

can you hang on for another day, please?

I'm writing a post to you about why I think AJ is scum, I meant to do it earlier but I was just in a shitty mood all day so I never got around to it (my fault). I don't know exactly how long it'll take, so we might not be able to *really* talk until tomorrow, but either way I'd like if you could wait for me.

for the record, if you see my post and you still really don't want it, I would feel much, much more comfortable with an OA lynch over an S_S one.

also, I don't have a super-strong town read on Syr or anything but he is not in the set of people I want to make dead today

[Seiko x Naomi]

I'm basically just going to go through AJ's ISO from the top and go through everything that I don't like in order.

181 still feels really bad to me, for the same reason I pointed out before: tonally, it read strongly like a scum post to me.

I didn't like his response to me in 231, mostly because I don't really buy that he had absolutely no scum reads at that point in the game.

I thought 317 was completely terrible, for a whole bunch of reasons. the first paragraph of the post actually just reads like a straight up discredit; he clarified in subsequent posts that he wasn't taking our read as a meta read, so it's basically just him attempting to throw out an excuse along the lines of "these people haven't played with me in forever so they shouldn't be able to have any read on me". the second paragraph of the post was him directly calling the post where I called his focus off "bullshit", which is mostly notable because it doesn't fall in line with what he does later (which I'll get into later).

I also thought the read he gave on OA was really terrible: all it is is him just nitpicking on her reads and inventing reasons that "she shouldn't be having the reads that she has". I don't really think saying "you shouldn't give up the town read on bork just because he's good as scum" makes any amount of sense; OA's mindset with regard to her read on you was perfectly fine (and I know I can say this because I've had games like FF where even though you had a lot of posts I just kinda hazed out and couldn't see anything town because "he could fake all of them easily enough"). then we have "Syr shouldn't be your strongest town read" with no further justification for it at all, but I think the worst thing there is how he criticized the S_S read, since there were plenty of angles he could have pushed there that would have actually been legitimate; OA's reasoning for her read on S_S is actually pretty awful (and her read there is pretty much the major issue I have with her slot at this point in the game), yet AJ completely misses it and instead nitpicks based around "you shouldn't have such a strong read on S_S and no read on the people with more posts", which is an angle that's far easier to push as scum since he doesn't have to directly call out OA's read for what it is.

for what it's worth, notty specifically told me he disagrees about this point: he thinks his OA read at least is reasonable.

next, there's 338 ~ 345. at this point, he very clearly thinks I'm just making up my read on him, but the thing is, he's done absolutely nothing to actually push me over it. usually, if you think someone is outright making up a read on you, you would be all over it trying to call them out for it, show everyone else that they're making up the read on you, and generally just not let them get away with it. he isn't doing anything like this, he just continues to nitpick about OA's reads. this, to me, indicates that he didn't actually believe his response to me and that he just thought that he had to call my read on him "bullshit" to make it look less credible - he isn't pushing us because we're very clearly town and he can't figure out any way to get away with actually pushing us without making himself look like obvious scum. I also just generally think there's a complete lack of pointed questioning directed to *both* of me or OA - none towards me and only the one post to OA.

396 is another post where I'd expect something a lot more direct than what he actually did - again, there is no pointed questioning here, it reads really deflective (the same way his 231 to me did).

431 read as off to me because again, his focus is all off: he supposedly has me who is making up a read on him, and OA who he apparently feels strongly enough is scum that he berates Syr for being on him over her, but again, there's no real pointed questioning to either of us, he just keeps going on about other things (i.e. associatives in this post).

notty and I still don't *really* agree on this read - from what he's told me, he thinks that AJ is a slower player who needs flips to really be able to get going in the game and he wants to give him until D2 and see what he does before launching a serious push on him. he also thinks AJ is largely town hunting and doesn't take as much issue with his lack of any concrete push, but I don't agree with this at all (since he clearly has at least tried to express a major scum read on OA).

I don't really think "he's always awkward" is an excuse for any of this, since a lot of his play seems very clearly scum motivated to me independent of "awkwardness", so I'd like if you could walk me through what I'm missing here.

[Seiko x Naomi]

the town signals I'm seeing in S_S are his treatment of Dunn and his reaction to his wagon; in addition to what I said earlier (his push on Dunn being really understandable coming from him and mirroring my own concerns to some extent), 460 is actually a pretty succinct explanation of what is wrong with all of the votes on him.

notty is in explicit agreement with me that the wagon on him is bad.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I'd let syry have my children.

Its okay syry i figured it out :>

I refuse to lynch syry

syry's a lock read for me and idr where he was for pie

[Seiko x Naomi]

We don't really agree, no. Hence my "give him a day" thing.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Of all the wagons right now, the only one I would join is OA.

[Seiko x Naomi]

you're just mad I voted you and stuff!!!

Oh, the irony

[Seiko x Naomi]

VOTE: Persivul

Consolidation time.

[Seiko x Naomi]

VOTE: Persivul

Consolidation time.

OK, don't let me catch up.

VOTE: Shadow

My role pretty much lets me prove I'm town tomorrow, so if you're town and lynch me, don't say I didn't warn you.

Yes, because my one vote for consolidation with less than a day left in the day is purely to make sure you can't catch up.

Seiko, bork, where are your heads at?

I'm still gunning for some TOB blood.

I just voted Pers for consolidation.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Honestly at the moment literally the only person I feel like I want to lynch is TOB.

I don't want bork/syry.

Charl obv don't want

I still maintain no belief in the shadow wagon

aj's earlier meta re: dunn

I dont really want aj

Pers should fullclaim rather than just soft all around but I suppose it's in our best interests to leave him alive granted it could be a scum gambit so meh

TOB is all Im left with

[Seiko x Naomi]

how does pie feel about dunn meta, considering the fakegod game they both recently got out of?

the reason I caught Dunn in the dance game was because eventually I realized his reads were just really bad and shallow. tonally, this Dunn is different, but outside of his tone, I have similar concerns about his reads here, so... /shrug

sorry I never got back to you on AJ, btw, the other game I was in was in a critical position. I'll probably be around this evening to do stuff.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I don't agree that Persi's soft claim is reason to give him another day; it is absurdly easy for scum to just vaguely claim "my role makes me town tomorrow" and then claim something along the lines of "herp derp I was roleblocked".

it's also pretty much the only contested read notty and I are in any sort of agreement on (along with that we hate the S_S wagon).

I really wish I was able to get around to this game earlier.

[Seiko x Naomi]

notty apparently agrees with AJ's meta read on Dunn. I don't remember agreeing with it and I'm focusing more on the reads he's expressed wrt my read on him.

[Seiko x Naomi]

If I thought you were making up a read on me, I'd be voting you because you'd be scum, Pie. Your read that I was tunneling TOB was garbage, not made up. There's a distinction there. And that distinction unfortunately wrecks like 90% of your points. Specifically you wondering why I'm voting OA over you shouldn't really be a point anyways (OA's response was in a different dimension of bad, considering he decided to be unreasonable with me after seemingly deciding to explain himself first). Yeah I'mma fight your "Aj's tunneling TOB" statement. What kinda tunnel goes "Yeah I have nothing more to address with TOB for now" after two or three posts? For the basis of your read on me, it seems pretty self-explanatory why I think that read is atrocious.

AJ needs to clarify this because this is way, way different from the kind of shit he was saying about me before.

the most apparent one is that in 345, he outright claims I'm lying about what I'm saying about him, but the wording of his other posts seems to strongly imply a scum read on me ("post feels all-around awful to me", "bullshit", "the reason for OA over SxN"). that isn't how you treat someone who you think just has a horrible read on you. ideally I would have had time to have more of a dialogue about this, but since it's close to the deadline, I think he's making something up somewhere in here either way: if he was scum reading me then the points I made still apply, if he wasn't then 345 feels like a typical scum post in terms of trying to oversell issues with pushes on him ("lie") in order to reduce our credibility while still not committing to calling us scum (even though if he thought we were attempting to lie about him, he should have).

I'm not as sure as I was about this. I don't take as much issue with his recent posts/reads (the Persi read in particular was fine to me), but, eh.

@bork I'd like to hear your thoughts about this, too.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I don't agree that Persi's soft claim is reason to give him another day; it is absurdly easy for scum to just vaguely claim "my role makes me town tomorrow" and then claim something along the lines of "herp derp I was roleblocked".

If we don't lynch SS, I may have a solution to this.

I don't really know what to say to this. I disagree on principle with any kind of "let a scum read get to night phase because night actions will sort them out", because there are just too many things that can go wrong with night actions and in a role madness setup it's pointless to even attempt to enumerate and plan around them.

this is more so the case here because notty and I are pretty much entirely divided over the game apart from the situation with him and S_S.

p-edit: I'd probably be a lot more OK with that if he had done literally anything to attempt to sort/refine his read on me after the things he was initially saying about me.

[Seiko x Naomi]

the only way I'd feel comfortable with it is if you promise me that if he attempts to do *any* sort of "I was blocked" shenanigans or if we're in any scenario where D2 opens and he isn't confirmed town, for any reason, we auto-lynch him.

I'd really really much rather just lynch him now, though so we don't have to deal with all of that, and I'm glad you're seeing my viewpoint on this.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Persi's posts and reads are terrible and I hate the read on S_S in just about every way it's possible to hate something.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I'm fairly sure. he's in my top town pile along with you and Charl.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I still think 460 is a good post, and I generally think his posts across the recent pages are bleeding town (650 is another post that resonated with me a lot).

[Seiko x Naomi]

i feel like 460 is null because it's just addressing points on him; i feel like he's going to try to downplay those regardless of alignment.

also dunn thinks that's a misrep of his stance.

it isn't. in fact, Dunn's read on S_S is one of his reads that I had an issue with, so I think it's perfectly reasonable that he would take issue with it.

the thing he said about OA is literally what OA's read on him was, and similarly that's the primary reason I took issue with OA back when they were still in the slot.

[Seiko x Naomi]

the thing I really, really hate the absolute most about Persi is his reaction to Charl's claim.

that just isn't how town would react. at all. I read it purely as him hoping to test the waters to see if a Charl lynch is possible.

p-edit: thank you. at this point I guess we just wait for Syr and then one other person.

[Seiko x Naomi]

can you really not see all the conviction in S_S recent posts? I think on a general level, that's what I'm so inclined to town read about it - he isn't a particularly loud player but I can still feel it.

[Seiko x Naomi]

You rang, pie?

I don't really need anything in particular, except you plan on voting Persi with us, right?

[Seiko x Naomi]

I voted dunn because I hated how he handled the Charloux situation, like he was testing to see if anyone was gonna bite on lynching Char, a blatantly antitown thing to do, especially if the progression goes

we as town decide to uncover lynch target -> char reveals ss -> ss is town -> ss gets NKed before lylo -> now we're down someone who was pretty obviously town and scum can't kill without having to deal with some consequences

I've stated before that I take issue with a lot of Dunn's stances. the way he approached Charl was one of them.

I probably would join you there if it weren't for the fact that notty doesn't want it.

[Seiko x Naomi]

He made us hated.

VOTE: dunn

[Seiko x Naomi]

Hey bork lets have a day phase

Did persi confirm himself as town

[Seiko x Naomi]

Also shadow wagon was straight garbino

Said that several times

I bet second scum is on it somewhere

Pedit-
I mean town seems to be no slouch too based off the first two flips

I kinda see your point tho

I need to go iso dunn and tob together to see if that makes sense as a team

[Seiko x Naomi]

I still dont want to lynch bork

[Seiko x Naomi]

I meant syry

[Seiko x Naomi]

Noted, will either be done tonight after I work or tomorrow if I wake up early enough.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I am the one who is vehemently against it. (notty)

I'll reconsider, because I know I've been having a hard time adding tangibility to how I feel but this is just one of those reads. I'll work on it tomorrow.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Are you hated forever or just today?

it's just for today.

I'm going back to sleep (lololol weird schedule lololol), but can we talk when I wake up? I still think Persi is very likely the second scum here and I want to talk to you about why when I'm not too out of it to write complete thoughts.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I really am hating this interaction between the two of them.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Persi next.

vote: Persi (L-1 if he's still hated from Dunn's role?)

also, I'm going to preemptively say: 1. be careful with votes outside of Persi in case he tries to invent some bullshit excuse to pile both of his votes on and hammer, 2. if Persi shows up and tries any sort of voting shenanigans at any point this game day, including the above if people fail to be careful with votes outside of him, autolynch him.

[Seiko x Naomi]

By...voting...me...you're...saying...that...the...flipped...scum...made...his...partner...HATED.

That's ludicrous.

yeah, OK...

not only is that exactly the kind of WIFOM-ic bus Dunn lives for, you're attempting to say this at the same time as saying that bork's town read on us is the only thing holding you back from scum reading us...

[Seiko x Naomi]

in case it isn't obvious, I don't read into the bork death; killing bork and playing the "omg why would I ever kill bork" card is also a viable option for scum-Persi, whereas killing me even though it removes the obvious attacker runs the risk of e.g. bork seeing that he survived and that we died and considering what our read before a certain someone cut the day off was, and it also means Syr probably is just locked on him today with no real recourse.

I'm not accepting any other end to this day unless he somehow does something really, really, really town. I would hope that his last post to me makes it obvious enough that he isn't town, though.

[Seiko x Naomi]

What exactly would scum persi do in that lylo sutuation raven

[Seiko x Naomi]

What she is saying is making someone hated today means 2 votes to lynch was is right

But if persi quicklynched someone today based off that hed be fucked going into tomorrow

Hence, null

[Seiko x Naomi]

I owe bork a syry reread.

So me, personally, yes but i need to reread syry

[Seiko x Naomi]

I miss bork.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Wait a minute

[Seiko x Naomi]

Kind of awkward

And I can't tell what posts are from pieguy and what from notscience, but it seems like they're all pieguy? (Correct me if I'm wrong)

I've got a theory that the more lopsided a hydra's posting habits, the more likely they are to be scum

What the fuck

[Seiko x Naomi]

To be fair

This is a quote from flipped scum on a scumtell he applied to me and pie when anoter slot did the same exact thing and was blatantly igbored

So

[Seiko x Naomi]

Lets make it simple

Claim within 24 hours or eat rope

Stop wasting our goddamn time

[Seiko x Naomi]

All right. It would be beneficial for everyone to claim whether they have an ability that can directly and intentionally target us before we claim. I don't have a lot of experience with set-up analysis, but I think this is the correct play.
Would everyone be OK with that?

~ Raven

we don't.

[Seiko x Naomi]

beetlejuice

Haven't had time to review syry's iso

We're sylvanas

1shot flavor cop

We checked persi n1

[Seiko x Naomi]

Notty, get your sorry ass in here

You too Pie

This game is fuckin dead

I'm going to catchup tomorrow bc I get off work early

[Seiko x Naomi]

@Syr, I don't understand why you're so hung up on TOB's posts. I think you're 100% right that their thought process is wrong and stupid, but I don't really see them-scum faking it; I think it's a thought process they either legitimately would have had as town or them as scum doing what they'd do as town (i.e. it's null).

I don't think any of this is anywhere near as much of a tell as shit like Persi straight up trying to oversell his double-vote as a "confirmed town" role back on D1, which has a hell of a lot more scum motivation than this (TOB delayed their full claim so they could... what... have more information for a claim they largely locked themselves into all the way back on D1?).

I'd be continuing to call for Persi votes if not for the fact that notty and I haven't convened in forever and he still isn't caught up with the game.

if I'm missing something, let me know.

[Seiko x Naomi]

he says give him until tomorrow.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I am here now.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Kind of awkward

And I can't tell what posts are from pieguy and what from notscience, but it seems like they're all pieguy? (Correct me if I'm wrong)

I've got a theory that the more lopsided a hydra's posting habits, the more likely they are to be scum

This still bothers me.

(I'm reading him+syry iso'd together)

[Seiko x Naomi]

I could maybe see there being an early bus type thing where dunn distances with a light scumread and syry engages and then his reasoning magically fits dunn's role perfectly (ie syry explained it as why are you telling people who to wagon without voting yourself only for dunn to have the perfect explanation for it after) but that just seems too... cohesive? Like the flow was just TOO perfect to be scum?

Like if they were scum together why would he use that as a point to push him

Then he changed his vote to us re:my lying thing

mmm

Still looking. I can kinda see weird interactions but I still don't think syry's scum.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Dunnstral (this one is stagnating a little too but not as much as charleyhorse)

why is this a townread

So the takeaway from this is I'm really interested to hear what Dunn has to say on S_S and AJ. I also think this wagon is town driven/motivated. This basically leaves me entertaining the idea that AJ may be town. Jury's still out on OA; I think that jump reasoning is shitawful.

Why call out a teammate like this

I'm not this good at scum

Huh? but you haven't done anything

I feel like if Syry is scum I will see this post in my nightmares.

I think that town's best interest knowing I'm scum is just to look for my partners instead, as you guys can lynch me any time you want, and it would be nice having a frame of reference

Then this shit

Like I could see an argument for them being scum together. And I can feel my inner confbias too so I'm trying to ignore it but I've been really confident about this read all game and I really don't think I'm wrong but this could just be the confbias talking

But if they are scum together with the interactions they had why would dunn even bring up looking for partners unless he was confident in his associatives and if associatives are making me think syr might be scum and confscum wanted us to look for partners then maybe associatives are a dead end

I'm going to refresh myself on what bork's points were and try to see his PoV

[Seiko x Naomi]

But if associatives are supposed to be a dead end then what the fuck was that bullshit between dunn and persivul after he was confirmed scum

As well as persivul being the one who hammered him making sure he got towncred

and the last second "oh why would scum haterize his partner when he was confscum"

It could have been a desperate move by scum who was cornered?

[Seiko x Naomi]

I need time to think and talk to pie. I kinda had a long weekend (I work at *insert sports bar franchise* and last weekend was *insert biggest sports event of the year*) so this is the first I've had a minute to think.

[Seiko x Naomi]

bc atm I'm caught in this sea of wifom and confbias and I need to not be <_>

[Seiko x Naomi]

Gamestate is either I hammer Persi or Seiko hammers TOB. From what I can see the only way TOB hammer happens is if notty gets a super hard on for it and talks pie into it. I'd rather see TOB swing than Persi but I don't see how it happens today.

notty and I have been trying to find a time to convene about this game, but the last time we spoke (last night) he basically told me he was in no emotional state to think about this game and that I should just take it solo from here.

if there's anything you want to talk to me about I'll respond when I get a chance (kind of busy atm), otherwise I still want Persi dead.

[Seiko x Naomi]

this has got to be some sort of sick joke.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I was near 100% lynching Persi would have ended the game. I frankly am going to have words for him in postgame for thinking some of the shit he did were somehow OK things to do as town, but that's beside the point.

I need to actually step back and think.

I'm probably going to do a full reread, but just as one quick point, the last thing notty and I tried to convene on yesterday before he was overwhelmed with RL were the Dunn/Syr interactions, and from what I remember I didn't find his points all that compelling - one thing I'm probably going to look out for when I get to them is rereading bork's posts and seeing if I can directly parse anything out of them instead.

this just completely sucks because one of you apparently thinks you can get me to misvote today, so clearly I'm missing something huge in my assessment of the game somewhere, regardless of whether it's Syr relying on our read on him or TOB hoping that I flip out on Syr (that or one of you thinks you can lynch me, which, lololol if that's the case).

[Seiko x Naomi]

I was near 100% lynching Persi would have ended the game.

Why did you think this after he was clear about his intention to self-hammer?

~ Raven

I didn't really care about all of the stuff he was saying about self-hammering; as far as I was concerned it was just yet another cheap scum ploy that people would look at and think "o, no way this comes from scum" and not want to vote him (this falls into a similar sort of thing as a lot of what I thought he was attempting to pull and had got away with D1, i.e. claiming DV as a "confirmed town" role to get people to back off and attempting to put out some half-assed reads right at the end so that people would flip out and second guess themselves at the last minute).

obviously it was wrong, but, /shrug. I can walk you through my read there in more depth if you have anything you want to ask me about.

where are your reads currently at?

[Seiko x Naomi]

I didn't really care about all of the stuff he was saying about self-hammering; as far as I was concerned it was just yet another cheap scum ploy that people would look at and think "o, no way this comes from scum" and not want to vote him

What made you think he wouldn't follow through?

shit like that is the easiest sort of shit to back out of as scum, and I'm not exactly sure why you disagree; he was under literally no obligation to follow through with it. I figured he'd probably just show up and say something along the lines of "thought about it more and I don't want to self hammer, let's just lynch Syr". you can't exactly push him for "backing out of saying he'd selfhammer", because selfhammering is completely stupid even for town-him, so it's very easy for scum to make that sort of empty promise without really having any repercussion if they feel it'll make them look town.

do you follow?

I've been scum-reading Syryana from the start of the game. But I can't understand why you're still alive. I don't understand how you can say you were so sure about Persivul. There's a disconnect between how we're seeing the game there, and I need to understand why that is.

I wasn't expecting to be alive either, so your guess is as good as mine. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

my current working assumption is that scum thinks I'll be more likely to misvote today than AJ would have been, and that they figured he was as town as I was in terms of being unlynchable so no real utility in one kill over the other. that's a part of why I don't really feel good about this game atm, since if that *is* what is going on here it means whichever of you is scum feels confident in tricking me one way or the other.

[Seiko x Naomi]

plus not to mention Persi's play in general was just shit and (as I said before) that idea of "fake people out by acting like I'll self hammer" matched a lot of how I was reading his play D1 (this being him basically just trying to trick people into getting weirded out on the lynch on him one way or the other). again, if you want me to elaborate more on how I was reading him feel free to ask.

[Seiko x Naomi]

hai.

[Seiko x Naomi]

claiming town.

[Seiko x Naomi]

hi

[Seiko x Naomi]

I was going to revisit things but I got called into work so I will be productive afterwards

[Seiko x Naomi]

hmm.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I've been thinking about this game.

notty has informed me that he is back to not knowing if he'll be able to get around to this game, so he's relegated it back to me. I'm nowhere near as sure on this as I'd like to be, but at the same time I don't really think I'm capable of doing any better here and I don't want to lose myself in an endless sea of second guessing myself, so, I don't really see a reason to drag this out.

vote: TOB

TOB, if you're town, I'm sorry in advance. more than anything, I just don't think Syr's play looks like scum and I don't think his play over the course of the game looks like he's been attempting to long con me. I could go into more detail on this but really all it'd be would be me attempting to retroactively justify myself and both of us know how pointless that would be, but, know that if I'm wrong I take full responsbility for it. (this is also directed to bork, I know Syr was your primary read too.)

[Seiko x Naomi]

Syr, were you town?