Timeshift Mafia III [Game Over]

[Tywin Lannister]

Didn't even know this game started. Glad I randomly checked after posting in another game, cuz I don't think I ever got another pm after getting my role. Im guessing some other players don't know either. Will catch up in a sec.

Also: VOTE: LandofXanth confirmed scum here! I said it pre-game and am always right in every read I've ever had in every game. I'm so good at this that I can predict flips before roles are even sent out. Follow me to lynch scum. I'm as good as the very aggressive KainTepes! I taught him everything he knows.

[Tywin Lannister]

Okay, so I skimmed this shit show as thoroughly as I have the patience for in RVS.

1. We can't lynch a cop claim D1, regardless of whether it's real or fake. It's not the optimal move, so if someone does lynch James and he flips town, they're probably confirmed scum. Even the scummiest claims aren't lynchable this early, and without a counter, anyone voting the guy is basically confirming they're newbscum.

2. I've never played ToS, but I know about it. I forget other sites I've played Mafia on, but one strategy was for everyone to mass claim immediately. The player who fucks up their claim was usually always scum. It is a legitimate strategy in those quick 5 minute Mafia sites, but it's fucking terrible play on forum Mafia. So I do at least know about those strategies, although they're garbage.

3. That all being said, why the fuck would a 1 shot cop claim D1? How hard is it to use your investigation first and claim D2? That's common sense. I think that makes the claim look scummy af, because it makes zero sense to not wait a day. What townie would do that? This guy is another KainTepes. Idc if he claimed cop D2 if he is a 1-shot, but doing it D1 means either he'll be roleblocked or NK'd. He wasted his role for no reason at all. This site isn't ToS, and it's common sense regardless imo.

4. I can't see any situation where scum would make that claim fucking immediately on their first post. The guy doubled down on it, so he can't claim it was a joke. I can't fathom any reason for scum to fake claim there, and without a counter, i have to assume it's real. I just think it wins the award for dumbest play I've seen since I rejoined this site. It's that bad. At least we know who the first NK will be.

5. Shit like this is why I always say meta is fucking horrible to use. People know their own meta and manipulate it. Idk why this site loves meta so much, but I hope people stop. It's bad play.

6. Anyone voting a cop claim without a cc after thinking about the above reasons is scummy Af, which leads me to this guy: Commknight.

Spoiler:

Now I wonder what Kain put in the snip. It was edited pretty fast!

Anyway. VOTE: James. Whether RVS or not, a CC and reaction is something.

Confirmed newbscum here, since there wasn't a CC (Kyouko clearly said his counter was a joke), yet he votes the cop claim regardless. He states it isn't an RVS vote too, so I think we have caught newbscum. Welp, D1 was easy.

VOTE: Commknight

Choo choo

[Tywin Lannister]

Because he jumped on me after the cop claim, he's very probably scum. But there's an offchance of him being a VI, and that offchance is greater for him than it is for you.

Well Grey jumped on you after the cop claim as well. So did Kyouko and Camm. Does that make us all scum? Does that make us VI? What makes or breaks the difference between being VI and/or being scum in this case?

-Ali

Comm's vote was serious and also was sheeping others. He put zero thought into it, and out of all the players who voted James, comm looks the worst to me. Probable newbscum there.

Or do you TR everyone who jumped on James? You unvoted him for the same reasons I gave, so I don't see you as scum. Kyouko unvoted, because he was joking. Comm put the guy at like L2 or something with a serious vote, yet no reasoning behind it other than sheeping. His join date makes me think newbscum.

[Tywin Lannister]

His join date makes me think newbscum.

I would also like to add that by this logic, me and grey are newbs.

-Ali

Not really, because you voted to get an explaination and interacted with the guy. Half the thread is you two and James talking it out over his claim. There's a difference between that and what comm did. He posted once, said it was a serious vote, then left. He was like the third or fourth vote too. At the least, posting reasons give reads, and posting 'serious' votes without reason is scummy. I want to hear from both him and James, since I haven't seen an explanation as to why he'd claim on his first post when he's a 1-shot cop, but I'm good with voting comm unless there's a good reason to switch.

[Tywin Lannister]

Comm: while I already stated how dumb I think it is for a cop to claim in his very first post, it's also scummy for you to want to push a cop claim without even considering anything/anyone else. Even if he is scum, which I find unlikely due to how big of a gamble it would be to fake claim on his very first post (without any reason for it that I can think of if scum), there are more scum than just him. Without a CC, he isn't lynchable. That's common sense. To push for his lynch because 'he's practically a VT' is scummy reasoning. The only legitimate reason I can think of for scum to fake claim there is to become unlynchible D1, but it still doesn't make any sense in the long term. It isn't a good move whatsoever for scum to make (not that it's a good move for town either), so I can't see any reason to disbelieve it currently. A CC or another cop flip would easily out him as scum, so with 18 players in the game (glad you counted, cuz I didn't), a fake claim there makes less sense than him just being a VI used to a different meta. Do you have any other reasons for your SR on James? Is there any reason that you've ignored the rest of the players thus far (who have posted at least) and want a quicklynch already?

[Tywin Lannister]

James: what do you do when you are a role like Town Doctor or something that would immediately become the first NK N1?

[Tywin Lannister]

I always claim day one. It provides ample information for me to read people off of.

What do you claim if you are scum?

Obviously they don't claim scum. They claim town. The person that seems the fakest in there claim is usually scum. This just proves how dumb it is from scum perspective to do the claiming stuff in ToS. In here tho, it's not that hard to fake.

But overall, mass claiming day 1 and looking for who's claim seems more fake is just lowering the enjoyment level of the game a lot.

It's Mafia for those without skill more or less. Town players just look for the fake claim, but there's no actual skill involved there. The only skill scum need there is to copy/paste from a list of fake claims faster than others. It's a really dumbed down version of Mafia. I feel as though the majority of players who've joined MS from there have no idea how to form reads or scum hunt, and it's shown quite a bit in the few games I've played since I rejoined MS. There are obvious exceptions, but the rule seems to be that if their Mafia experience comes from sites like ToS/EM/etc (I forget the other 5 minute ones), they really don't know how to play yet.

[Tywin Lannister]

James has stated that he played forum Mafia on the ToS website though, so it translates better. Different meta though obviously.

[Tywin Lannister]

He was doctor in his only other game on site and he claimed he was either doctor or BP at the start of D2 (newbie game) and won

Zeke, I was joking because I thought he was joking, so I expected him to reveal he was joking by way of making a sarcastic comment of some kind but he turned out to be serious

Wait... That worked??? Lol. If I was scum, he'd have been the immediate NK target. The only way claiming doc there seems helpful is if there is a watcher on him for when he gets NK'd. So I'm guessing he never got lynched, but was he NK'd? I want to see this game now.

As for your claim, it looked obvious to me to be a joke post. Comm taking it seriously looked contrived to me, but I'll let him explain that.

[Tywin Lannister]

Smh UNVOTE:

[Tywin Lannister]

They both strike me as TvT. Specially, newtown vs newtown. Will look at it more after work, but comm looks new to Mafia based on him thinking his claim there was a good idea, since it doesn't really cc anything. They're both modified cops, although one is a non-consecutive role cop, the other a 1-shot normal cop. They both basically outted themselves without reason. Being a role cop should've told comm to expect things like a scum/town roleblocker, scum/town cop, etc, because there's no point to a role cop over a normal cop otherwise. Usually, town role cops need a reason to search for roles instead of simply guilty/innocent, so I think that should've been common sense to him. Due to that, also having a weak 1-shot cop makes sense and fits balance-wise, especially with the 'time shifted' mechanic in play. I think they're both newtown at this point, and regardless, neither are the correct lynch D1.

[Tywin Lannister]

BTW Tywin, did you see Comm's claim?
If so, why are you still voting him?
-Ali

Not caught up, but saw this after hitting last page. I'm not voting him? I unvoted right as he ninja'd me with the claim earlier today. Look at the vote count from mod. I unvoted before you did? Have you not read the thread at all?

[Tywin Lannister]

Smh UNVOTE:

Tywin, what do you make of Pepto saying James is not the Lynch today but continuing to poke at him?

-G

Grey read the thread, so why aren't you Ali? Wtf?

[Tywin Lannister]

BTW Tywin, did you see Comm's claim?
If so, why are you still voting him?
-Ali

Not caught up, but saw this after hitting last page. I'm not voting him? I unvoted right as he ninja'd me with the claim earlier today. Look at the vote count from mod. I unvoted before you did? Have you not read the thread at all?

Ah. My mistake. Misread the votecount then. It happens, right Tywin?
-Ali

smart ass! Also, read page 7. I have to read 8 through 10 now.

[Tywin Lannister]

I hope that neither one are actually cops...

Perv.....
I would ask why you would vig me but it obvious.... everyone loves to kill FuzzyLogic even when I am town. Cant remember was I scum our last game?

Can you enlighten the rest of us please?

[Tywin Lannister]

ToS doesn't have the best reputation so he may just be blindly carrying some of his bad or in this case, controversial habits over.

Again, my tactics are not representative of ToS, and they in fact caused much consternation while I was there.

Though yes, they are as terrible as everyone says.

So if 'always claiming immediately' is your meta, and you claim it isn't normal for ToS to do, what exactly do you do it for? What is gained? Kyouko said you did it in a newbie game as Doctor too, so what could possibly make claiming any role worth it over the obvious drawbacks? Explain, because this still hasn't been answered. What is the reason to claim in your first post, aside from 'always doing it?'

[Tywin Lannister]

Move on from James and find someone else to vote, because the only people with any notice for killing a claimed cop on d1 is Scum.

Not true. He's a 1-shot cop. He could screw up his one shot. He's not a big loss. If his claim is true and we lynched him, big deal. It would be worth it not to listen to his snippiness for the entire game. I'd be willing to lynch him just so the rest of the game can be fun.

------------

@MOD Is this game bastard?

This game lives in Theme Park. Abandon preconceived notions.

------------

I want to hear from both him and James, since I haven't seen an explanation as to why he'd claim on his first post when he's a 1-shot cop

Not reading the game pings my scumdar.

This entire post is scummy af.

This guy admits to wanting to policy lynch a cop claim, admits to thinking it will flip town, but wants to lynch there to 'make the game fun.' Fun for who? Scum? If you were town, you'd be actually scum hunting instead of trying to policy lynch someone you TR.

Oh, and then he goes on to throw shade on me randomly by saying I don't read the game (which wouldn't be AI regardless), even though I have almost twice as many posts as him. Misrep much? Also, what possibly would make you think I wasn't reading the game when the OP was made? You're clearly just making shit up just to 'look' active and see what sticks.

VOTE: Slysly

[Tywin Lannister]

VOTE: SlySly
-G

Bring forth the votes! My lynch will give you something to analyze much more than that 1-shot cop claim.

Fake AF, since he knows his scum buddies won't be pushing him. Begs for votes while still trying to shade a cop claim that he seems to already know is town.

Comm's vote was serious and also was sheeping others. He put zero thought into it, and out of all the players who voted James, comm looks the worst to me. Probable newbscum there.

The most "scum hunting" post of the game.

Wtf does this even mean? Looks like him trying to discredit me without actually giving a reason.... Again

I'd dayvig Fuzzy Logic.

Why?

This is HIS scum hunting post of the game?


Oh, and then up top in his reads list, he calls me scum 'after reading comm.' Whats ironic is that this guy hasn't read the game at all, or he'd know my push on comm was still during RVS and far before his claim, one that I clearly never expected nor asked him to make, and him even doing it was obvious due to being new over anything else.

I originally was positive Sly was just newbscum after reading his absolutely trash sequence of posts, but then I saw his join date and I cringed. This guy can't be this bad for real, can he? Anyone know his meta? He's just slinging shit around to see what sticks, all of it misreps, half truths, or outright lies. With only 10 pages total, there's no excuse at all to misremember the sequence of events this badly. Even I don't have that bad of a memory, so he has to be intentionally doing it. My question is why. He looks like obv scum to me, but whose he distracting for? I don't see a reason for him to make the posts he's made if not to distract everyone away from someone else. I want to flip him and then see who he was distancing/confirming/etc when he flips obv scum. Unless he really is just a shit player after over a decade of being on MS, there's a reason for him basically begging for a rope.

[Tywin Lannister]

@Tywin

- Except that your vote and rationale boils down to a OMGUS vote. Would rather see attempted discussion by you of either Xanth or SlySly early reads list.

Except this isn't true at all. Have you not read anything Sly or I have said? All I did was point out the facts, which show that he is insanely scummy. Why are you ignoring that? Do you TR sly for admitting he wants to policy lynch a cop claim that he believes is town? Do you TR him for not scum hunting at all, yet trying to discredit those that have? Or is it his shade throwing that are clearly misinformation or outright lies on what has actually happened in the game? You tell me, because you seem to have ignored everything said by him or me, and instead you just discredit my case/vote by calling it OMGUS.

If scum attack a townie, and in doing so, show that they're scum, is it OMGUS for that townie to vote the scum? What is your definition of 'scummy' if Sly looks town to you?

[Tywin Lannister]

Sly, I clearly showed your posts that more than imply you believe the cop claim and he will flip town, so unless you truly believe others are stupid and can't read between the lines of your implications, don't even attempt your 'show quotes of me saying the EXACT phrasing of what I clearly implied, oh I mean... Didn't imply and you're a liar!'

Also, a policy lynch isn't the same as lynching a SR, so if you did SR him, show me an exact quote that proves that. Otherwise, you're admitting you TR James and want him lynched anyways by using the words 'policy lynch.'

And.. Your quote (and the meta it apparently implies) shouldn't be something you're proud of. Just saying.

[Tywin Lannister]

I clearly showed you weren't reading the thread. I'm very proud of it. I should get an award

I'm voting James. I think he's lying scum.

First quote is still a lie. One, you have no way to prove that. Two, I've posted more than you, so does that mean you don't read the thread? Three, reading isn't AI (but lying is), so you're just saying it to be a troll at this point. Four, the thread is too small to even make that statement and truly believe it. Five, your misconstruing of the sequence of events and posts as they happened is more indicative of you not reading the thread, otherwise it means you're admitted scum whose been purposely lying.

This is backtracking from the policy lynch statement you said on Page 9, but it's a start. So now that you SR him, can you give your reasons why? You called me scum for pushing comm in RVS, yet he didn't give his reasons why either. Since it was before he claimed, his reasoning was shit and the same as yours, as in 'it doesn't matter if he flips town.' That's scummy reasoning, plain and simple. James getting lynched is one thing, but unless the doc can protect all town, somebody will also get NK'd. James seems like the likely candidate for that anyways if he survives the day, unless he is considered easy lynchbait for scum. Why do you want to get rid of the lynchbait cop claim before even looking at the rest of the game? Even if James is lying, he isn't the correct lynch today. That's common sense.

So what are your thoughts on practically anyone else? There's apparently are two players who haven't even posted yet, and Kain (your top TR for an unknown reason) hasn't been replaced yet. Why do you TR a mod-replaced player? In my experience, someone that gets booted by a mod and not mod killed end up flipping scum, since mod killing them D1 hurts game balance.

[Tywin Lannister]

BTW Tywin, did you see Comm's claim?
If so, why are you still voting him?
-Ali

Not caught up, but saw this after hitting last page. I'm not voting him? I unvoted right as he ninja'd me with the claim earlier today. Look at the vote count from mod. I unvoted before you did? Have you not read the thread at all?

Tywin, what do you think of the Xanth hydra at the moment? It's obvious they've been missing a lot of posts and are hard-defending a poor claim so early.

Furthermore, do you agree with my analysis of the 1-shot cop balance wise? If anything it should've been my role that was limited shot and his non-consecutive. In your mind does a one-shot cop

*really*

make sense? Whether or not SlySly is scum, his words ring true. I don't believe there to be a second cop in this game. There's many other town PRs to fill before a second cop spot is filled.

Xanth hydra seems to ignore this logic and furthermore isn't really providing much of their own reads or analysis. Aside from saying no cops are being lynched today, they've only been asking other people questions, not really adding anything of import to the game as of yet.

Also to answer another question earlier. Yes, it really does benefit town if James has a modification and outs it. Because then his claim would've been more believable. Right now I'm death-tunneling him and I'll admit that because I know his claim is BS. Right now I'm hard SR'ing the Xanth hydra. Based on gut and their "contribution" so far to the discussion and not really putting James on the fire like they should be. So if James is not lynched today, I can definitely do a Xanth lynch. Their posts are majorly fluff and perhaps I'm new to the site, but surely I can't be the only one seeing their activity as such.

Anyway, definitely hard town read on Tywin. He didn't immediately buddy me or anything and I feel he's town motivated.

Due to having actual experience playing with Alisae and grey (although I can't talk about ongoing games, so there's a limit to what I can say here), they feel town to me in this instance. Idk what scum Alisae looks like, but the other head plays differently (aka far more cautious, less ability to generate reads, sheeping others, etc) IMO while scum.

I also play 'by the book' web it comes to claims, and the book says to not lynch them without a flip or CC, or at least enough room to gamble on it (like if there was only 1 scum left) and not have it hurt town much. D1 just is a bad day to flip cop claims. Either the guy will get his 1-shot off tonight, or he will be NK'd tonight. If neither happen, he can be flipped later. So in that respect, I agree with the hydra. It doesn't make sense to push him there, and I think he's easy lynchbait regardless. I don't want him in a Lylo situation, but if he's town, he won't make it there anyways.

As far as balance, not really, because we don't know the setup without some flips. It's a shitty gamble to say a 1-shot doesn't fit balance-wise. That's a bad argument. If he didn't claim an X-shot, I'd be far more suspicious, but those modifiers are there for balance reasons. You being a role cop instead of normal cop means there are some heavy PRs in the game. There'd be no other reason for it, so due to that, an X-shot doesn't strike me as unbalanced. I don't really follow why you think otherwise?

The hydra is playing as Ali always plays, which is to ask a shit ton of questions and form reads much later. That's how I've seen it in the multiple games I've played with her, and she was town in them all. I don't see how asking questions is scummy. That's what scum hunting entails. Reads that aren't solidified with questions are usually shit.

I think you acknowledging the tunnel is fine, and I don't have a problem with SRing him, but I don't think he's a good lynch today. If he's lying, he's not the only scum, and more reads on everyone is a better play. If he is lynched and flips town, what then? What info is gained, and why did we just let all the lurking fucks slide by for another day without reason?

See my point?

[Tywin Lannister]

In my experience, someone that gets booted by a mod and not mod killed end up flipping scum, since mod killing them D1 hurts game balance.

KAIN TEPES posted a cipher claim, ciphers are against the rules (encrypted text) so he was force replaced. Not getting modkilled is NAI

Tell that to Sly for TRing the slot for it then? I just gave my own experience, which was to show that the opposite can be true of the Kain slot as well.

[Tywin Lannister]

Kain (your top TR for an unknown reason)

Again, not reading.

KainTepes - didn't read his crumb, but don't think scum be stupid enough to crumb something to get them kicked out of game

No, I read it, and it's not a reason to TR the slot. Just like Kyouko said, it's NAI. So again, it's an unknown reason.

[Tywin Lannister]

KainTepes - didn't read his crumb, but don't think scum be stupid enough to crumb something to get them kicked out of game

[/quote]

A lot of the conversation between him today feels like he's really on everyone case, that's not really a problem but I don't really feel like he's truly digesting anything. He's kind of gone from tunnel to tunnel when transitioning from Comm to Knight and he hasn't really commented on many other players between then. The lack of pause strikes me as weird since he seems like a more detailed type of player

I don't really know what this means, but fair enough. It's a reason. I just got home from work, so I'm fully catching up now. I post throughout the day when I have time/breaks/lunch, but it isn't enough time to be responding to every player/post that aren't directed toward me, and I still can't get to all of them.

[Tywin Lannister]

Sly quote wasn't meant to be in that, but I'm on phone.

[Tywin Lannister]

@peregrin: okay so calling half my case on Sly OMGUS is still different than saying everything I said boils down to OMGUS. That's not true, because I don't vote someone I don't think is scum, and the definition of OMGUS in MS's own wiki is: OMGUS stands for "Oh My God, You Suck (for voting for me)!". it is sometimes used as a shorthand to indicate that you are voting for someone primarily because they voted for you.

1. Sly isn't voting me
2. I've clearly stated why I SR him. It just so happens that his misreps, shading, and flat out lies were against me.

So again: why do you ignore the actual case and everything both he and I have said, and instead try to discredit my CASE/SR using a buzzword that doesn't fit? Do you TR Sly, and if so, why? If not, why are you defending him? He seems pretty capable of handling himself here.

[Tywin Lannister]

Hmm that's a nice post Comm
VOTE: Skelda

Care to elaborate what you like/agree with about comm's post? Any thoughts to add? Why such low effort from you?

[Tywin Lannister]

@Comm: you give cases the way I do when ISOing someone, although your format it better so people actually read it lol. Anyway, I agree that skald won't take a hard stance on anyone here except TRs. His SRs don't have any reasoning behind them, and he doesn't look to actually believe any of them nearly the same way he does TRs. Since scum already know who town are, that's easy to be genuine there, but SRs aren't if you are faking them. So yeah, I agree. I still think Sly is scummier, and I need to sort peregrine too.

@Sly: saying its a reason doesn't make it one.. Wtf? Stop playing semantics here. It's not alignment indicative, so TRing Kain's slot makes no sense. He's never even posted more than once, and the entire thing was snipped. I didn't see it, but I can't fathom how you'd get a read whatsoever on a slot that basically never posted, let alone your top TR. It makes no sense.

Also, I haven't misrep'd anything, and you going back and forth repeating my words back to me doesn't make it true. What have I misrepresented you with that you've proven? Please show me, because the way I see it, you've talking out of your ass this entire time. You keep repeating that I haven't read the thread as if that somehow will be true just by saying it, ignore most of what I say to cherry pick specific things to deny through semantics over genuine responses, and then you call me the liar for it instead of ever addressing almost any accusation brought to your attention. You're using diversionary tactics. It's pretty obvious. Why?

[Tywin Lannister]

Welcome, Ramcius. Can you please tell Tywin you are town so he can get some shut eye? Thanks in advance.

I don't care if he is. I want to know how you 'know' this from a player with a grand total of zero non-deleted posts. He's your top TR, and he hasn't even posted yet.

[Tywin Lannister]

I want to know how you 'know' this from a player with a grand total of zero non-deleted posts.

The post wasn't deleted. You need to learn to say what you mean, not how you're trying to twist it.

You read me as scum, I would assume that would explain to you how I know things.

Again, his post was deleted. You're arguing semantics. You know exactly what I meant. Why play coy?

Also, yes, I believe you're scum and the only reason you'd TR a slot that doesn't make any sense to have any read on (other than null) is due to that. I also want to know why you'd be playing the way you are as scum. You're practically admitting it, and I can't figure out why. Is that direct enough for you, or do you want to continue talking about how I should word things differently, even though you fully understand everything I say to you?

Here, let me be even more direct and down to the point for you:

Are you scum?

What's your angle?

Who are your scum buddies?

[Tywin Lannister]

Not true.

He's a 1-shot cop.

He could screw up his one shot.

He's not a big loss.

If his claim is true and we lynched him, big deal. It would be worth it not to listen to his snippiness for the entire game.

I'd be willing to lynch him just so the rest of the game can be fun.

Here's the post you keep saying didn't happen Sly. You're constantly deflecting, denying, and misdirecting instead of answering legitimately. Those are all scum tactics. You really are one of the scummiest players I've ever seen. I agree with your signature.

[Tywin Lannister]

Just caught up. Went to doctor today and found out I have bronchitis. It sucks, and my ass hurts from getting a shot there. Not been a fun day.

Anyway, VOTE: peregrinV. I agree with Kyouko's reasoning, since I've already said the same things myself, and I still haven't gotten a response to my questions. Also, Sly is probably scum, but maybe he is just another VI. I can't really tell at this point, so I'll leave it alone for now. At least he didn't ignore me when I asked him questions like peregrinV has.

[Tywin Lannister]

@Uzi: so discussing the reads list of Sly/LoX would've moved the game along, but me discussing Sly's other posts were not? How does that make any sense? Also, I ignored his request, because I was going to do a read list myself until I saw that almost everyone was lurking/inactive/0-2 posts total (all with no real content) for me to say anything more than 'these couple of players are obv town, these 1-2 players look scummy, the other 12-15 players are completely null.' It was pointless and I stopped. Narna hadn't posted yet. Gamma wasn't replaced. Hark didn't post yet. Most players had maybe 1 RVS post at best. So how would his request for me to discuss a useless endeavor have progressed the game more than my genuine SR on Sly? It looked like chainsawing to me, since the goal seemed to be take heat off of Sly there. Otherwise, it could be scum trying to gain TCred by defending what he saw as lynchbait. I don't see why town would defend another player from simple questions, especially when Sly seemed capable of answering them himself. He wasn't wilting under pressure like a new player may (which then makes the defense more understandable), so I still can't see why he'd do it. His entire point about the OMGUS thing looks fabricated, and the term didn't even fit.

[Tywin Lannister]

Prod noted.......

I'm voting this guy if he doesn't post absolutely anything worthwhile soon. He's ignored every question asked of him, and he responds to a prod with this. Effort isn't AI, but avoiding answering questions, giving reads, looking for scum, or doing anything except prod dodge with useless posts is pretty scummy. It also pisses me off. I've seen a scum play like this in every single one of my games since I rejoined this site. Every single one.

[Tywin Lannister]

Idk that's between you guys lol but I just don't see any reason to think he's scum with the way things went down today

My biggest issue is he is equating rolecop with cop, yet seems to know the difference, thereby making his counterclaim not an actual COUNTERclaim, but merely a reason to cast doubt on James.

Yet, in the event of James townflip, he still maintains the perfect alibi of "I said I was a ROLEcop."

Not sure if intentional or you really missed it. But no. It's the fact that we're both a cop one way or another yet his claim is 1-shot. Which to me in a game this size does not make sense. He has said no other modifiers so that 1-shot to me is useless because it can easily be faked and the only way to tell if he caught a scum is if HE DIES. Otherwise it's going off his word and would most likely give mafia a free mislynch.

Anyhow, I like Pep's quote of SlySly, which puts SlySly closer to mafia for me. How would SlySly "know" anything about Ramcius slot when his predecessor was kicked from the game? So keep the pressure on Ramcius and his flip would give away anything about SlySly if they are linked together.

Regarding your last paragraph, that's exactly what I said too. KT had literally posted once, and his quote was snipped, so all it said was 'this is my crumb.' That made him Sly's top TR? I don't really care what he reads Ram as, but he called me a liar for saying there were 'unknown' reasons for KT being his top TR. He said he had 'reasons' and so I'm a liar who doesn't read the thread. Smh. I dropped my vote only because his meta may legitimately be that he's the VI no matter what alignment. If that's the case, then idk how to read him, because I go off things needing to make sense. Players that purposely make stupid or irresponsible decisions without cause, whether they know better or not (usually not), are the ones that confuse me the most. Speaking of which, I'm glad Gamma was replaced, because I SR him in every single game he plays (his play style reeks of scum), yet he's flipped town in every one. I don't know what to do with players like that.

[Tywin Lannister]

Just logged in and saw that I was prodded. Could've sworn I've posted within the past 48 hours, but oh well. I've been sick with bronchitis, so I haven't really logged in over the weekend. Catching up now.

[Tywin Lannister]

So there's absolutely nothing substatially new being said between my last post Friday night to my latest Sunday night. That's still not 48 hours either, so idk why I was I prodded?

Anyway, here's everything that's happened in the past 2 days: Sly keeps being scummy on purpose (seriously, wtf?), Fuzzy says his lynch is fine, Ram wants to policy lynch fuzzy for it, hark I forgot what his stance was and am too lazy to reread it, Kyouko SRs hark for his stance that I forgot, LoX SRs Sly, Vifam hasn't said anything game related, I forgot the other half of the player pool for being inactives, peregrinV I quoted below, Uzi TRs everyone apparently, James wants Sly to claim, and everyone else is still pretty much still inactive. Who'd I forget? I'm on phone so can't go back to read without this getting deleted, but that's about everything anyways.

I will say that if I got prodded (assuming it wasn't a mistake), then that means half the game is about to be replaced.

@PeregrineV:

@peregrin: okay so calling half my case on Sly OMGUS is still different than saying everything I said boils down to OMGUS. That's not true, because I don't vote someone I don't think is scum, and the definition of OMGUS in MS's own wiki is: OMGUS stands for "Oh My God, You Suck (for voting for me)!". it is sometimes used as a shorthand to indicate that you are voting for someone primarily because they voted for you.

1. Sly isn't voting me
2. I've clearly stated why I SR him. It just so happens that his misreps, shading, and flat out lies were against me.

So again: why do you ignore the actual case and everything both he and I have said, and instead try to discredit my CASE/SR using a buzzword that doesn't fit? Do you TR Sly, and if so, why? If not, why are you defending him? He seems pretty capable of handling himself here.

1. Spirit of OMGUS - (you scumread him for him scumreading you)
2. I guess when you confront him about those misreps, shading, and lies, I'll eagerly read both of your posts thoroughly.

I null-read Sly, because of my experience playing him in past games. Time will tell, I suppose.

I'm mostly trying to get a read off of you, because there is a sense of activity from you, but it's not seeming to reach the conclusions I expected.

1. Fine. I don't really care enough to argue this point beyond saying I don't agree that it fits. It looked like a buzzword being thrown around as a chainsaw instead of you actually believing it, but I'm not gonna push something that I can't prove.

2. You don't think I already have? I'm kind of wondering if you read any of it? Also, why haven't you asked him yourself if my questions aren't getting all the answers you wanted to see? Why would you eagerly wait for others to post questions/thoughts instead of doing it yourself?

3. What was your experience of him in past games? Did he look as scummy in those games as he does here, and what did he flip? I'm guessing you've seen him act scummy in both town and scum alignments for you to null read him here? Has this read been updated at all since his latest string of posts, or do you hold firm to the null stance?

4. What conclusions were you expecting me to reach? I'm curious as to what those are. You seem to want to direct me somewhere by the tone of multiple posts directed at me, but where, and why? Do you have specific players you SR that you want me to SR as well, or what are you saying about me 'not reaching the expected conclusions?' Why not just say it instead of trying to nudge me there?

[Tywin Lannister]

I forgot a few:

Pepchoninga arguing with Ram about why he's bad town.

TTTT just posts his distaste for EM players, and asks LoX what it's like to be a hydra.

Zekromaster tells everyone to stop guessing setup and meta and give him a case to sheep.

Skald just says 'hi,' follows it up with 'bye.'

Summary for everyone that hasn't read anything.

[Tywin Lannister]

Is it a 24 hour limit before prod, or did I just pass the 48 hour mark over the weekend? I feel like maybe I need to declare V/LA on weekends even if I'm not, since there's a chance I don't post for a day or so there.

@mod: would that be helpful if I declare V/LA on the weekend (days I may/may not post a lot) and just post anyways if I can? I don't really wanna get prodded once a week for missing a Saturday or Sunday.

[Tywin Lannister]

Still catching up. At work, but reading on break right now. Will post more during lunch.

[Tywin Lannister]

VOTE: Skalda.

The fact that this guy hasn't been voted at all by anyone makes me believe he's scum. His posts show complete and utter 'nervousness' in everything he says, is very cautious to not actually say anything, TRs Vifam and Sly out of all the players, and his 'effort' posts are basically just saying 'I'm here guys! Hi! Look at me putting in effort at 2 am! So Vifam looks super town, because no reason at all, but super town there guys. Super town. We have the best town, don't we folks? The best! Oh, sly is obvious town too, because he's so scummy that he's town! Uzi is scum because he posted thoughts, which I don't like due to me not doing it. Also, bad play = town because I'm one of them hahahahahahahahaha. I'm not awkward at all. Ttyl for the next prod dodge!'

Jokes aside, that's pretty much how I read his string of recent posts. I will give him credit for actually posting SOMETHING other than 'hi, bye' for once, but it all looks very forced and contrived. It's like he doesn't want to be on any current wagon, either because they're town or because they're his scum buddies, so he throws his vote away on Uzi saying 'guy read, no other reason' and then asks others to join. He knows full well that nobody will join a non case, so it's a throwaway vote. I don't like it.

Also @ everyone:

What's the exact case on Pep? I've pretty much forgotten he exists. Kyouko made some good posts about it, but I haven't seen reasons from others. I'm not against that wagon and will join if it's deadline, but I want to see why people are joining aside from 'pressure.' Pressure without reasons/questions doesn't work and has no purpose. The entire point of D1 lynches are to gain more information beyond just catching scum. There are more than 1. So those voting pep, give the guy questions and/or post your case on him in a way that he can respond. I can't stand sheep votes that don't even give thoughts/reasons behind them. If you agree with a case, say so and say why/what exact parts you agree with. More information is always good, and if you're town, it helps others sort you. Just saying, because if pep flips town, I can see a few scum in those naked wagon votes.

[Tywin Lannister]

Ah shit Tywin, you're actually scum this game aren't you?

Yep, you caught me.

On a more serious note: are you against the skald vote, or are you against me not voting pep? Too many players have jumped on it without reason for me to like it. It's a mix of TRs giving actual reasons, and SRs giving none. I'm honestly wondering why you haven't called anyone out for that. You're usually more aware of this stuff when town Ali/grey.

Also Ali: why have the questions stopped? You disengaged a bit from your previous activity. Was it due to being SR by some people, or did grey tell you to chill out a bit?

Pedit: Vifam, what sucked about it, and is there a reason why haven't you contributed to the game whatsoever? Youre the same player as Skald here, only you've done even less. You also keep saying 'what's going on? I'm so confused, I dunno what anyone is saying' along with Skald, who coincidentally has you as his top TR. If he flips scum, you're suspect.

[Tywin Lannister]

I'm just chilling man going at my own pace you know


How is not keeping up with the game and being lost scummy? If anything it's NAI

Not keeping up is AI, but you haven't been prodded or anything, so you are keeping up. You just haven't been posting anything really game related, much less have you looked for scum. You're sliding under the radar on purpose here, and at least compared to what I know of your meta, it's not consistent with town you. That is the biggest ping for me. If I had more, I'd vote you, but I don't. Just know that if Skald flips scum, you're suspect. I don't think it's coincidence that you've both said the same things and you're his top TR (of two total). You're completely null to me, so there's no reason I can see for him to have you as the top TR. it's the same crap Sly pulled on the KainTepes slot. That's a pattern with you three, especially when Sly was the other top (and only) TR Skald has.

[Tywin Lannister]

EBWOP: Not keeping up isnt* AI. Etc etc

[Tywin Lannister]

Skald: Why do you TR Vifam and Sly? They seem to be your top reads, correct? Also, who are your SRs (if any) beyond Uzi? It's fine if they're just gut reads, but I'm curious about your thoughts on the rest of the game. You've mentioned 3-4 players pretty much, but there are a lot more.

As far as why I'm voting you, it's mainly the lack of productive posts combined with the extremely odd reads. Trying isn't AI, but the things that pinged me were the strong TRs for Vifam/Sly, the general lack of 'looking' for scum, and you haven't seemed to try to sort anyone into solid reads. You're coasting in the same way I accused Vifam of doing, and I don't consider that a townie trait.

What it boils down to is the read on Vifam, which sets you apart from players like Harp, fuzzy, or really any of the other inactives (half the game), because Vifam hasn't 'done' anything. He's said next to nothing even game related for that matter. Most of what he's posted has been 'I'm confused' kind of stuff. An ISO would show that pretty clearly, so why did you single out Vifam (and sly to a lessor extent) to TR over practically anyone else? There are some generally active players in the game whom seem pretty town to me, and there are many who are null due to almost no activity, but I certainly don't understand why you chose Vifam over others. The Sly read I can see how the 'so blatantly scummy that he's town' thing could be read that way (although why him over others?), and at least he's active. He's asked/answered questions, poked a few people, etc. Vifam hasn't, so that read alone seems way out of left field. It looks fake. Your other posts also look forced to me, which is obviously just my opinion, so it's not something I'm gonna push.

What's really interesting to me is that when I voted you (the only player in the game to do so), multiple players have called it 'bad' and even said I'm scum for it. I'm one vote, and I haven't asked others to sheep a wagon on you, so why would these random players get so upset? Why should they care, unless they hard TR you, and if so, why?

Would you consider your current play to be pro-town? What do you think of the reactions that were given out by players like LoX and Vifam for me voting you? What do you think of the pep wagon, and if you don't like it (you're not on it), what do you think of those pushing for it?

[Tywin Lannister]

VOTE: Skalda.

The fact that this guy hasn't been voted at all by anyone makes me believe he's scum.

That's NAI. Other people's actions are not indicative of a different person's alignment.

Not that I'm against a Skelda lynch, but that's just bs shade throwing.

What's the exact case on Pep?

I've pretty much forgotten he exists.

That's more reason to vote someone than "nobody voted this dude hurr de hurr"

You and vifam's reaction to my single vote on Skald is very interesting. I wonder why you both reacted so strongly to a single vote? Do you TR Skald, and if so, why? What makes you so upset about a single vote on a very inactive player?

[Tywin Lannister]

LoX: also, that's not shade throwing. It's a fact. Nobody has voted him before me. Facts are not shade throwing. Also, my opinion of why scum vote, how they vote, and what wagons they join/don't join isn't shade throwing.

If pep flipped town, would you assume there are scum on the wagon, or would it be an all-townie affair? I'm curious as to why you'd ignore how fast a wagon grows, why it grows, and the reasons/lack of any for people joining the wagon. Do you TR everyone on the pep wagon? If not, then do you think scum are bussing on D1? I'm not even against the pep wagon, but I'm gonna demand accountability from those who join any wagon without reasons, and I'm suspicious of anyone who does that in the first place. You're not one of them obviously, but you get my point I'm sure.

Pedit: okay, then why get upset that I voted the guy? You can't say to those not voting 'use your vote, you can change it anytime, etc etc' and then call me scum for using mine on someone you don't TR. That makes no sense, and Skalda (sorry I spelled your name wrong) is talking now, isn't he? Vifam even posted a few things in his defense. So did you two. Interesting how that works. Vifam is a big null to me, but attacking me over voting Skalda looks pretty bad to me. Skalda's TR of Vifam looks bad to me. You two I had as a TR the entire game, but the attack on me voting Skalda looks bad to me.

[Tywin Lannister]

@mod: pepto looks to have site flaked. I just noticed in another game that he got replaced for not responding to a prod. Just an FYI.

[Tywin Lannister]

@comm: my bad. I forgot about you making a case on Skald. So I stand corrected about me being the only one to vote there. Still, you are a TR so I don't see any issues with my general statement.

[Tywin Lannister]

So I've been 'poked' haha. I'm still kind of V/LA due to spending the day apartment hunting at the very last minute (I'm a procrastinator), but I'll catch up and post sometime tonight. Also, the Seattle housing/renters market sucks.

[Tywin Lannister]

Catching up now, but I agree with Ram above. The pep wagon has all been sheep votes from all but two players (Kyouko, LoX). The rest have not given a case, not said why they SR pep, and they haven't even said whose case they're sheeping/what they agree with about it. It's an obv scum train. If pep flips town, there's at least 1 scum on that wagon. It's so obvious that it makes me suspicious of the players who DID give a case, yet haven't grilled any of the players sheeping them.

List of no-case players: Vifam, peregrinV, HavingFitz, Nero

Town needs to start demanding reasons from players like this, or there's no info gained regardless of pep's flip. I got told that my case on Skelda was shit, but that was from players who haven't given a single reason to vote pep. Pot, meet kettle.

[Tywin Lannister]

It's an obv scum train.

So Pep is for sure town? Why?

If pep flips town

Ok...so there's a chaaaaance he would flip scum? I feel better.

, there's at least 1 scum on that wagon.

So 9 to lynch...and there'll be at least 1 scum on the wagon? Brilliant analysis (regardless of flip I'd say).

It's so obvious that it makes me suspicious of the players who DID give a case, yet haven't grilled any of the players sheeping them.

I'm sheeping LoX and Kyouto because they're my strongest town reads and the Pep wagon has/had traction.

This entire post from HavingFitz is shit. He asks rhetorical questions, makes smartass remarks, and tries to discredit me for calling him out on him not giving a reason for voting Pep. He still hasn't, and he avoided the question/accusation entirely.

HavingFitz: You TRing ssbm and LoX does not = a SR on pep. They are not mutually exclusive. You just admitting to not be SRing pep and only voting him because your two TRs are.

If you don't SR pep, why are you voting him? Not SRing him means you TR him, so you're voting a TR.

If you do SR pep, give your reasons for it. Simple stuff here.

If you are town, you should have no problems with either question. Try actually answering them for once. Also, you are not playing the same as your town meta whatsoever. Why?

[Tywin Lannister]

The more I read Ram's posts, the more I TR him.

The more I read LoX's posts, the more I ST them.

LoX is playing as if they're scum based on what I know from their scum meta. They weren't at the start of the game, but each post looks worse and worse, and the shady 'we won't tell you who said what' shit is a total scum tell. No hydra has any reason to hide who is posting unless they're scum. Town have no reason to hide things there, and they only started when they became a SR of a couple people.

Yeah, I'm definitely not liking LoX as town anymore.

[Tywin Lannister]

EBWOP: SR* them

[Tywin Lannister]

Legitimately, the ONLY reasons hydra would stop putting their names after each post is to confuse the town players who know their scum meta. That's the only reason to have stopped whatsoever. They knew that some players know how they have/will play as scum, and so they tried to make it harder to detect.

[Tywin Lannister]

UNVOTE: the Skalda replacement, since that's going nowhere.

VOTE: Land of Xanth have some pressure, free of charge!

*For a limited time only, terms and conditions apply. Please read fine print below for the EULA you agree to by not being dead, all terms and conditions end after your lynch, some saltiness may apply*

[Tywin Lannister]

@havingfitz: gut is fine, but you weren't one to sheep in the game I saw you play as town. Your playing far different than that game, so I'm still wondering why.

@LoX: why claim investigative role now and yet zero suspicion on the two cop claims? I'm looking at you specifically Ali. This smells like a fake claim.

[Tywin Lannister]

Not voting RC, idc if it goes to NL.

He could have easily fueled our wagon if he was scum instead of try to sidetrack town away from us with TWO OTHER wagons including his own.

He'll flip VT.

Quite a change on the only person you've SR the entire game so far, and now you want a NL?

[Tywin Lannister]

We have 2 days to find a lynch. NL's on D1 are bad. Free scum NK and it restarts back to D1 with no information. Personally, I'd go for any of the sheep players on RC who haven't ever given reasons to SR the slot. Vifam would be my top pick before absolutely anyone, but there's no point if nobody else gives a shit this game. Too many lurkers, useless players, replacements, etc. I'd go for one of them over a NL.

@Ram/Comm/Kyouko: talk to me. You're all my top TRs, so I'd rather town bloc a wagon than allow a NL. NL's on D1 are bad. If I have to hop on the RC wagon, I will, but I'd rather lynch the sheep than a bad wagon. Kyouko, do you SR anyone else that hasn't claimed? Ram: what's your case on fuzzy? I'd join that over an NL too. Comm: any other SRs aside from James/LoX? I don't think we can lynch either on D1 with their claims, although LoX's looks like something Ali would make up as scum, especially being so generic. There's no reason to claim 'investigative role' without saying what that is, since scum would know regardless that they're a PR. They can't be cops, so unless it's a tracker/watcher, I think it's fake. Even so, not claiming tracker/watcher specifically is a scum tactic, since a CC makes them an auto-lynch, and claiming at all as town also makes no sense. It only works/makes sense if they're scum.

[Tywin Lannister]

supposedly Ali (and I guess Grey too) always plays to the same meta so Ali always seems fluffy and scummy to me. I know she was hinting at something but I didn't know it was an investigationg role and I dunno why she'd do that with like 2 votes.

Exactly. It makes no sense to claim there, and they didn't 'really' claim. They said they are a PR that's investigative, but that's an easy way for scum to fake claim without a CC. It's also pointless for town to have claimed there, but scum could get away with it if they thought they were going to be lynched. Not actually claiming what role leads me to believing it's fake, and since it doesn't make any sense to claim that as town (scum would know they're a PR so it just puts a target on their back), I think it's fake. Combine that with what I know of their meta, their lack of suspicion on the two cop claims, and soft claiming without reason, and I think it's pretty damn suspicious.

Still, Idk if they're a good lynch today for the same reason James or Comm aren't.

What I also find interesting is that their one and only SR defends them and all of a sudden that player is super town vanilla flavored. Only scum looking for friends would switch that fast, unless they admit to never actually SRing pep in the first place. In that case, they were trying to lynch someone they didn't think was scum. Now that Ram called them out, they've tried pushing him. That's a hell of a lot of inconsistencies in my opinion.

[Tywin Lannister]

Wtf? This game is ridiculous.

RC/Firebringer circle jerk each other pretending they have mad skills on a site that literally has more mentally disabled players than competent ones... It's like winning the special olympics. Good... But bad. This site was far better about 10 years or so ago. I haven't seen anyone noteworthy since I came back. There's been a lot of people who lack common sense, basic understanding of how to play, make shitty decisions, sheep bad wagons, fail to ever look for scum, never pressure scummy players, never give cases on anyone they SR, never think things through, and basically would be considered policy lynches on other sites. It's really bad, so it's a bit weird that you two are so happy to be considered 'good' on a site that looks to have a lot more I gnorant baddies than even competent players. There's a reason almost nobody from a decade or more ago ever shows up anymore. In my personally biased opinion, the skill level has degraded sharply from what it used to be, but I could have nostolgia bias too.

Vifam/fuzzy are basically begging to be lynched and haven't even once looked to find scum. Vifam throws random names out as if that means anything, but hasn't even once put a single shred of effort into the game. Fuzzy has put even less in, and somehow if they are town, they're anti-town af to a point where I question why they even sign up to play. If you don't know how, then the newbie queue is there for you to learn. If you do know how but just choose to be useless on purpose, you deserve a policy lynch for basically being scum, regardless of your flip. Actively hurting town as town is basically being a traitor role but without the wincon. There's nothing good to be said about it. Don't advocate for your own lynch when there's nothing positive to be gained from it. If you suspect you'd be quicklynched in mylo by bad town, then maybe advocate for it before that point since it still helps town's win con. If you just want to die for 'info' that won't actually help find scum, then you're just playing badly on purpose.

The rest of the game is either inactive lurkers constantly prod dodging or getting replaced. Nobody has to post constantly, but if you don't have quantity, at least post something with quality.

The shit fuzzy/Vifam post make me wish we could double lynch them both.

Vifam is all 'hur der derp vote me for infos, dunno wut info is gained but i pretend there is some so I look like I contributed. I like pizza. Legos are fun. RC is a nerd. NLs are lame. Oh look, a shiney thing... Whose that person in the mirror? They look funny. I bet they don't like Legos and pizza. Oh look a shiney thing.....'

Fuzzy just says 'I'm not defensive! I have nothing to say other than defensive things, but I'm not defensive at all! In my defense, my posts are bad but not scummy! So I'm not defensive. I bet you're defensive over me being defensive. I'm so not defensive that I'll say voting me is okay so that I'm proven to not be defensive! If anything is said about me, it's that I'm not defensive! Call me bad, call me fuzzy the scummy, but never call me defensive! Defensiveness is not me, no sir. Vote me plz, cuz I'm not defensive. Nothing I say is scummy either. It's bad but not scummy! Also not defensive!'

Oh and I forgot LoX: 'everything is a lie! You can quote my posts, summarize exactly what I've said, ask me questions and give accusations that I'll ignore entirely, but everything is a lie! It's all such a huge lie that I won't give a single shred of proof that shows it's a lie, because i have none! It's a lie because lies are lies and a lie is a lie is a lie and I lie about my claims and SRs, so I know what a lie is, and that's a lie!'

Yep, I'm more than okay with any of them.

[Tywin Lannister]

VOTE: Vifam

Making a new post since nobody will read my wall. But I'm good with Vifam, fuzzy, or LoX at this point.

And RC/forestarter, get a room and start PMing your circle jerk. Stop doing it in this thread already.

[Tywin Lannister]

Anyway, I doubt both Vifam and fuzzy are scum, so at least one is just a terrible anti-town VT. Idk if that's Vifam or fuzzy, but since I've called Vifam scum since the beginning, I'll go there. It's all too ridiculous IMO. At least fuzzy is sort of playing the game. Vifam hasn't had less than a handful of actual game related posts. They're all trash, and if he's the jester, if not be surprised.

[Tywin Lannister]

I was gonna EBWOP since the 'hasn't had less' sentence doesnt make sense and should say 'more than,' but then I remembered nobody actually reads anything anyways.

[Tywin Lannister]

RC/Firebringer circle jerk each other pretending they have mad skills on a site that literally has more mentally disabled players than competent ones... It's like winning the special olympics. Good... But bad. This site was far better about 10 years or so ago. I haven't seen anyone noteworthy since I came back. There's been a lot of people who lack common sense, basic understanding of how to play, make shitty decisions, sheep bad wagons, fail to ever look for scum, never pressure scummy players, never give cases on anyone they SR, never think things through, and basically would be considered policy lynches on other sites. It's really bad, so it's a bit weird that you two are so happy to be considered 'good' on a site that looks to have a lot more I gnorant baddies than even competent players. There's a reason almost nobody from a decade or more ago ever shows up anymore. In my personally biased opinion, the skill level has degraded sharply from what it used to be, but I could have nostolgia bias too.

if i were the site, i would be offended by this.

If you were a talking website, I'd be very impressed, and also a bit worried that AI has advanced far enough to circle jerk and shit post.

As for actual people being offended, idk what to tell ya. I don't name names. I think the bad players just stand out more and overshadow the quietly good ones. I could be wrong though. I'm biased based on nostolgia. If you're talking about the ones who pay the bills for this site, well they can't decide the quality of their members. People either play well or don't I guess, but more than that it's just bad decision making IMO. Nobody seems to know how to 'play by the book' since they've never read it so to speak.

[Tywin Lannister]

I shit gold. I shit you not.

[Tywin Lannister]

tywin since you don't like either wagon why don't you try to push your own third option?

I'm not good at making people do what I want. They can just ignore my posts and carry on as usual. I've pushed other wagons twice now, but I can't make enough people join for it to actually matter. Scum sure won't join wagons on their buddies D1.

[Tywin Lannister]

Scum sure won't join wagons on their buddies D1.

??????
what makes you say this?

Cuz it's D1? Who busses on D1? Okay, maybe I should say 'scum won't lynch their buddies on D1.' I'm sure somebody has, but idk why scum would ever do that. Scum bussing on D1 seems like a really bad decision in almost every situation. There's not much TCred to be gained on a D1 rando wagon.

[Tywin Lannister]

Also Tywin, know what I think? Get your arse back on LoX and stop complaining. Because we're gonna look at those who refused to vote the hydra tomorrow if they continue to express doubt about the hydra and refuse to help town lynch a person who most likely IS scum over sheeping some wagon.

You want old school? Then let's get rid of the heads and work our way down the bloody chain until people start making real cases for their votes rather than sheeping random people over a claimed rolecop.

I was voting them, but A) I don't see them gaining enough traction to get lynched today and B) their soft claim makes it kind of a bad bet, although I'd still do it if there were enough people actually joining to make it viable before deadline.

So yeah, I don't think it will go through. If it does gain traction, I'll rejoin before deadline.

What do you think of Vifam/Vifam's wagon?

[Tywin Lannister]

I was gonna EBWOP since the 'hasn't had less' sentence doesnt make sense and should say 'more than,' but then I remembered nobody actually reads anything anyways.

Can you repeat that?

Umm.... Which part? If you're trying to say something by quoting that specific post, it's going way over my head. I'm kind of wondering why you chose an edit post to quote? I've said far more substantial things for you to look at... But oh yeah, nobody reads the thread. I forgot again.

But sure, I'll repeat it... I was gonna EBWOP (edit by way of post) a typo from the previous post, but then I remembered that nobody reads anything anyways so fixing my own typos is more a personal problem than actually helping anyone understand what I'm saying. To put it another way: most people are too f'kin lazy or useless to actually read the thread.

Here, I'll even Tl;dr: deez nuts

[Tywin Lannister]

Chill out, RC. You act like the day is already over.

Vifam is still a lovely lynch.

Lovelier than thou?

[Tywin Lannister]

@Vifam
disregard the impending deadline
who are your top three SRs?

LoX/Tywain/RC atm

Brilliant detective work Vifam.

It does seem you picked the last few posters on the current page though. Do you even know whose in this game, or have you not paid attention at all? I'm curious what you think about 3/4ths of the game. A read list would be great.

[Tywin Lannister]

Anyone scumreading us should be townreading Ty, because I don't bus.

Nice way to implicate me if you flip scum here LoX. Such an Ali move to hint scummy things and attach to strong town in hopes of implicating them when you flip red.

[Tywin Lannister]

@Vifam
disregard the impending deadline
who are your top three SRs?

LoX/Tywain/RC atm

Brilliant detective work Vifam.

It does seem you picked the last few posters on the current page though. Do you even know whose in this game, or have you not paid attention at all? I'm curious what you think about 3/4ths of the game. A read list would be great.

You don't have to scum up the thread to sell the lynch, bro.

Do you even know what scummy means? You can't throw the word around for absolutely anything in hopes it somehow sticks. Give exact reasons why it's scummy, or don't bother posting it. Shouldn't be too difficult if you actually read something that looks scummy to you. Well, since you ARE scum, it may really be difficult... Kind of like how you went after Pep/RC all game, then the minute RC defends you, he's super town. Oh, and then you went after Ram for calling you out for SRing pep/RC in the first place, even though you now think he's super town and thus Ram was defending your top SR from a bad wagon led by you... Yep, so scummy he is! And now you go after me.

Looks like every SR you have is OMGUS. Pretty bad play on your parts LoX.

[Tywin Lannister]

Ram was defending your top TR from a bad wagon led by you*

[Tywin Lannister]

needs to be, rather

I agree

[Tywin Lannister]

If you guys end up lynching me please look into Tywin seriously next

I'd prefer lynching Tywin today because his posts have shown actual aim motivation whereas your wagon is all about how you just don't look good which is a typical d1 mislynch (yes, I'm aware we're also guilty of saying the same thing regarding you).

Either way, Tywin needs to die. He's not his usual analytical self. He's just looking for whatever he can sell.

Complete shade throwing here. Define what scum motivation is and how my posts show that.

You and Vifam both vote with OMGUS reasons, and LoX, you're entire game has been OMGUS. You started off with pep/RC and pushed that shit wagon as hard as possible. Then you got called out for pushing a shit wagon by Ram, so you SR Ram, switched your vote to him, and called pep/RC your top TR out of nowhere. Then you soft fake claim, I call you out, and so you then SR me and switch to me.

You really do need to be lynched for your scummy inconsistencies, and your reads show that you never actually SR anyone, becaus you are scum and know they aren't. It's obvious at this point. It's so obvious that your only hope of staying alive is to try to lynch me, because I've got you pegged on Day fucking 1 already. You're screwed lol.

Vifam idgaf about because he's been so useless that nothing he says matters anymore. ISO him and tell me he's done absolutely anything this game. He hasn't, and so I questioned his 'scum reads' due to them being absolute shit and obviously we're just random names picked on the current page. Vifam probably doesn't even know who half the game is, because he hasn't read a single thing or posted anything actually helpful. He's voting me now for calling him useless and not actually reading the thread.

The fact that Vifam can't even answer a basic question and then OMGUS votes me for asking a basic question shows everything I needed to see. LoX is obvious scum as well, and their specific OMGUS vote on me, plus their fake defense of Vifam shows that they're very desperate at this point. It's pretty funny IMO.

I'd totally lynch LoX today, but I don't think we'll even get a lynch done today. There are still far too many lurkers to get a majority on anyone, and scum won't be lynching their buddies as I've already stated. That's why LoX won't go through, although they're pretty obvious IMO based on their play.

[Tywin Lannister]

VOTE: Land of Xanth ill switch back to them, why not. I'd rather lynch obvious scum over a useless player who asks for their own lynch.

[Tywin Lannister]

I definitely gave you my reads, I really don't see why you keep pushing this idea that I haven't been given reads when if you go through my ISO for like five seconds you'll see different reads on several players on this game

You've given names, not reads. This is a learn 2 play issue maybe, but random names don't = reads. Give reasons for your reads. Reasons for your votes. Reasons for things you do and say. Not doing so means you don't have reasons, and by definition makes you scummy.

[Tywin Lannister]

Now this is the story all about how
My life got flipped, turned upside down
And I'd like to take a minute just sit right there
I'll tell you how I became the prince of a town called Bel Air
In west Philadelphia born and raised
On the playground where I spent most of my days
Chilling out, maxing, relaxing all cool
And all shooting some b-ball outside of the school
When a couple of guys who were up to no good
Started making trouble in my neighborhood
I got in one little fight and my mom got scared
And said you're moving with your auntie and uncle in Bel Air

[Tywin Lannister]

^obvscum post

Tywin trying to fit in.

I whistled for a cab and when it came near the
License plate said "fresh" and had dice in the mirror
If anything I could say that this cab was rare
But I thought nah, forget it, yo homes to Bel-air!
I pulled up to a house about seven or eight
And I yelled to the cabby "Yo, homes smell you later!"
Looked at my kingdom I was finally there
To sit on my throne as the prince of Bel-air

[Tywin Lannister]

There has not, at a single point in this game, been a case presented at my slot following Pepcho's replace out, and yet the votes are still as sticky as they are. That should be god tier red flags.

Hey look, the second person to actually acknowledge this fact. I was the first, and yet I still never got responses from people like Vifam, PereginV, Nero, and to a smaller extend Havingfitz (although fitz atleast said "gut" as a reason). I asked them all why they joined the wagon, what their reasons for their naked sheep votes were, and what case/specific part of the case they agree with/are sheeping. No response. It was just ignored completely. The only one to even acknowledge what I posted (aside from Havingfitz) was Kyouko, who interestingly was the person who all these people sheeped in the first place.

LoX also had a case, but I can't recall what it was, because it was pretty terrible, and they switched votes onto Ram at the time after we called the pep wagon into question in the first place. Ram singled out LoX specifically (I called everyone else out), and so LoX scum read him for it and tried pushing his lynch. Then after LoX all of a sudden TR you (pep/RC), I called into question their constant inconsistencies and their OMGUS SR/Vote on Ram after calling them out. Due to me calling them out, all of a sudden LoX SRs me and switched their vote again. It was their second obvious OMGUS vote in a row. Now it looks like they switched to Vifam since he's the counter wagon, but they do seem to want me lynched after I SR them and have called them out on their bullshit.

I wonder if they still SR Ram, or if they just SR whoever calls them out at any given time? They don't seem to actually believe anyone they vote is scum, and an ISO of them (if you can stand sifting through it) would prove everything I've been saying about them. When their only SRs are based on OMGUS reasons, it means they don't believe the people they vote are scum. When they vote people they don't truly SR, it means they already know alignments and are scum themselves. I've seen Grey play two scum games so far, and his play has remained consistent with that, almost to a T. Ali idk as much about, but I'm pretty sure this is their scum game. It definitely fits their meta.

TL;DR: RC notices the sheep votes on him, which I (and Ram) called out long ago. LoX proved themselves to be scum imo after their repeated inconsistencies and OMGUS schtick, so I'd rather lynch obvious scum than a rando wagon on a useless player in Vifam. I'm not against that, because I called Vifam into question before anyone in the game ever mentioned him, but LoX looks pretty damn obvious to me. Vifam is just a meh whatever kind of lynch to me. I'd definitely go there over an NL, but I'm not sold on it, because there's not much of a case beyond him being completely useless and ignoring all game-related questions directed their way. It definitely is a scum tactic, but it's not nearly as damning as LoX's entire game full of scum tells.

[Tywin Lannister]

Hey look, the second person to actually acknowledge this fact. I was the first, and yet I still never got responses from people like Vifam, PereginV, Nero, and to a smaller extend Havingfitz (although fitz atleast said "gut" as a reason). I asked them all why they joined the wagon, what their reasons for their naked sheep votes were, and what case/specific part of the case they agree with/are sheeping. No response. It was just ignored completely. The only one to even acknowledge what I posted (aside from Havingfitz) was Kyouko, who interestingly was the person who all these people sheeped in the first place.

Shitty reaction to a wagon on him.

Playing hangman to show he doesn't care if he's lynched.

Getting mad the wagon on him didn't evaporate faster.

Getting mad when being called out on bad play.

Etc.

You responding to my questions is why you became a TR after I had originally SR you. I assume you just didn't see my OP so didn't know, but I like that you've responded to everything asked of you thus far, so I take your name off the quoted list.

Anyway, catching up.

[Tywin Lannister]

Not deadline yet? I should probably hammer Vifam then. Any objections? Intent to hammer here folks

[Tywin Lannister]

Although it's kinda my fault for not being more active but w/e

Any other reads besides one of me/LoX being scum? Other SRs? TRs? Anything else to add?

[Tywin Lannister]

So I am still catching up, but I keep reading crap from Vifam and his scumbuddies asking why I didn't hammer. It should've been fucking obvious why, but they clearly set things up to implicate me somehow today. That's what the LoX NK looks like to me when I consider Vifam scum. He still hasn't produced a case whatsoever and refuses to do so, but votes me anyway and keeps asking others to sheep a non-case. No, fuck that.

The reason I didn't hammer (apparently it wouldn't have hammered anyway since he wasn't L1 somehow) was because I was trying to let Vifam not be a complete useless bag of shit for 5 minutes. I was offering them to give last reads before I 'thought' I was hammering. I was at work (being a Friday, as I'm sure many of you also have jobs), so I couldn't wait exactly for deadline to hammer. I figured I had time, yet the mod ninja'd me. I assumed Vifam would say something seeing as they were online and reading the thread before my post, but no dice, because they didn't want to give reads since they're scum. They didn't get hammered because his scum buddies didn't vote him.

So yeah, fuck that. Mod ninja'd me, but it wouldn't have hammered anyway. The useless fucks on the RC wagon look more suspicious to me, because that was the counter to Vifam. More than half of the RC wagon never ever posted their reasons for voting that slot. Pretty obvious stuff here.

VOTE: Vifam get this scumster out of here already.

[Tywin Lannister]

I want everyone who isn't Peregrine, Fitz, SSBM, Nero Cain, or TTTTT to give me their reads on all five members of that voting block.

Would you like me to give quotes for when I asked them all to give their reasons for voting you, and then lack of quotes of answers since they all ignored me? Pretty obvious to me. Ssbm is the only one I TR there, and it's because he was the only one to give a case. The rest sheeped him without even stating why.

[Tywin Lannister]

I should add that fitz/PeregrinV gave reasons after I kept asking over and over, but Vifam refused, TTTT just ignored me, and so did Nero.

[Tywin Lannister]

Obligatory prod dodge post. I'm at work and not caught up, but I'll post when I get home tonight.

[Tywin Lannister]

So this week at work has been shit, and I know I posted a few days ago that id actually be productive, but I will tonight since it's finally Friday. FML though. This week has sucked big ones.

[Tywin Lannister]

Wtf is this fuzzy train I'm seeing? All I read was RC claiming he'll give a case of Ram answers some arbitrary question that doesn't matter. I called fuzzy out D1 and nobody gave a shit, so what's the deal now? Actually, I remember getting shit for calling him out too. So I'm gonna catch up and reread who those people were, and if they're voting fuzzy now with naked votes, we're gonna find some scumsters.

[Tywin Lannister]

Catching up now. Sorry for the week of inactivity. It's been a long one. Off all day, not moving from my couch, and lots of coffee, so I'll be here all day.

[Tywin Lannister]

FML this shit takes forever. Decided to reread all of D2, and it's a lot of shit. 20 more pages of crap to go.

[Tywin Lannister]

Does anyone else find it difficult to believe that Nero Cain legitimately believes that people legitimately believed that I was serial killer and that's why people aren't pushing on me?

Wait, what? I'm not caught up past page 90 or so yet, but what is this about? You fake claimed SK? Why?

[Tywin Lannister]

^ Fake astonishment tbh

What reason could I possibly ever have to fake astonishment? Are you joking or what? In what hypothetical could anyone of any alignment ever have any reason to do what you just claimed? That's beyond stupid to even say it, but it's also shade throwing and scummy af to have said it to begin with.

You can't prove something like that, because you have no idea or ability to read actual emotions over text. So it's an opinion post, but it's also a fake opinion due to you not giving a single reason for saying it. If you believe the shit you actually say, you'd give reasons to back it up. You haven't done that all game, because you're obv fucking scum. I'll get you lynched eventually, and I promise I won't let the mod ninja me into not hammering next time. I'll find your buddies too, so you won't have them creating bad counter wagons to save your scummy ass next time.

I will point out an amazingly easy case as to why you're scum, and it only takes me a few minutes to type. Note that you haven't given a single case against the one and only SR you've ever had this entire game, and the only reason for it was because I've been the first player to continuously call you out, because your obvious scum. It's completely obvious to me.

First, there's the NL (which I couldn't have hammered even if the mod didn't ninja me, because all you shit scummy players were on RC's bad wagon instead), which almost 100% points to you being scum. Only scum survive a D1 with a NL. Ever. I've never seen a game where a town player was NL'd on D1 before. It just doesn't happen, and it points to you being almost 100% sure scum. It's absolutely damning, and the only reason you've escaped suspicion is because either players are bad or they listen to your scum buddies talk them out of it. It certainly can't be due to your absolutely useless, anti-town, scummy play. Speaking of which...

Second, you have never, ever, not even once scum hunted anyone whatsoever at any point in the entire game. I'm on page 95, so unless you drastically changed your play in the past 10 pages or so, then my statement remains true through over a hundred pages and thousands upon thousands of posts. You simply have never done it and refused multiple times to even try. You have been completely useless, anti-town, refuse to answer questions, and have completely refused to scum hunt or even post a simple case on anyone, including me. When asked to provide a case on your one and only SR this entire game at any point, you flat out refused. You need to be hung ASAP for such shit. Shit like that doesn't and shouldn't ever be acceptable to anyone, and add it to your other scummy things, it practically assures that you're scum.

Third, your constant unfounded, irrelevant, and completely baseless shade throwing. You constantly have done it to me and other obv town, yet you've never given any reasons for it, and you somehow escape detection by sheer stupid luck. Shade throwing is scummy, and you have and continue to do almost entirely that. The fact that you've never actually given reasons to believe your shade throwing only confounds the obvious scumminess of it.

Do I need more reasons? I'm pretty positive I know your scum buddies too, and when you flip scum, they'll be next in quick succession. More to come after I finish the reread/catchup.

[Tywin Lannister]

You've played with me when I was town before and I pretty much played the exact same way so idk why you're acting like this isn't my normal playstyle

You actually scum hunted when town before, didn't throw constant shade without basis or reasons given, didn't have one and only one SR whom you've constantly called scum while refusing to give a case or any reason whatsoever to SR them, etc.

So if this was magically another town game from you, which we both know isn't true, you'd just be calling yourself a shit player that does nothing helpful for town and in practice is a minus overall for any alignment you join.

Also, self meta = manipulation. You quoting your own meta means you are actively trying to emulate your past town play and then bring up your meta as a way to give it a basis. Nope, get outta here with that shit. I'm not dumb enough to fall for that trap. You bringing up past meta only helps solidify my SR on you, and I've been looking for your buddies as well. I think I've found at least one. . Again, more to come after my reread.

[Tywin Lannister]

Also Vifam, what sets off my scumdar the most about you is you've been far more active D2 than D1, and so you post a lot, but you never actually say anything. You post one sentence and it's almost never actually about scum or finding scum or catching them. You post one sentence about 'so the sky is blue today' or 'RC you know you gotta read, right?' Things like that over MULTIPLE chained posts to get your post count up, but there's absolutely no substance in any of them. It's blatantly obvious what you're doing, and I know you're scum, because I've done the same thing as scum before. Bad, new, or unaware players don't notice what you've been doing, but I do. We both know you're scum, and we both know I'll get you lynched eventually. It probably won't happen today, but after your buddies are gone, you'll be screwed whether you NK me or not.

I'm just letting you know that I'm on to you.

[Tywin Lannister]

fuzzy has been pretty null all game
nothing's really stood out that made me go hmmm or mhmmm all game
RC asked my read on fuzzy
so I iso'ed and fuzzy looks like a town player playing at less than the level I would expect from his join date
but still a town-lean
if anybody really cares I can break down the iso
but not taking the time just for RC

But...

VC 2.5 (2/10/17)

RadiantCowbells [L-5]

PeregrineV, Havingfitz, Nero Cain, Vifam

TheFuzzylogic99 [L-5]

RadiantCowbells, SlySly, ssbm_Kyouko, XnadrojX

I don't like fuzzy's wagon comp at all.
and RC's wagon is super-townie.

Nero, can you answer 2337 for me?

TTTT: why are your reads completely different from mine? You keep saying you're too lazy to ever make a case on anyone (or scum hunt or actually... anything useful), which coincidentally is exactly the same shit Vifam has been pulling, but the wagon you think is SUPER TOWN is the one with all players who have never, ever given cases or scum hunted absolutely whatsoever.. And the SUPER SCUM wagon is full of players that have all been the most active and pretty much the ONLY players in the game to have scum hunted or given cases on absolutely anyone.

Also, since you think Kyouko is scum, then all the players sheeping his initial vote/case on RC's slot (Vifam, HavingFitz, PeregrinV) are players you should be SRing as well. To SR Kyouko, yet TR all the useless/scummy players that have never contributed in this game and have been sheeping your SR's wagon means you can't actually believe anything you've said. It doesn't make logical sense.

I think this makes you scum. I SR almost everyone on the RC wagon for obvious reasons. I TR almost everyone on the fuzzy wagon, for obvious reasons. I don't TR you, because you've joined the scummy bloc of players IMO, and being 'too lazy' to do jack shit all game, yet constantly find time to post useless shit means you have the time and are more than capable, but you can't because you aren't good at being scum. So since you can't fake a case on one of the towniest players in the game, you just asked others to do it for you. That's extremely scummy and it requires a vote and probably a lynch until you can actually answer and back up the foul smelling crap you've been pulling out of your ass. It's pretty obv to me.

VOTE: TTTT

[Tywin Lannister]

can someone who agrees do all the hard work of typing up a case so the rest of town will see it too and scum will feel forced into bussing as well?
bc I'm too lazy and nobody ever believes me anyway

This is one of the scummiest posts in the game. TTTT trying to get someone else to make a case on Kyouko, because he can't do it himself. He knows alignments already, so he's having problems getting an obv town player lynched.

[Tywin Lannister]

Sly, nice reasons bud. Scum wall why? Plz explain. Or don't, because you've done nothing all game too.

Ironic how this has worked. All the scum line themselves up.

[Tywin Lannister]

There hasn't been a case on ssbm, so I'm positive his wagon is scum driven. He's one of like three total players to actually give a case on anyone, and he's the one all his current voters sheeped originally. Pretty obvious to me whose scum right now. Apparently nobody else reads the same thread I do though, which probably means nobody reads the thread at all.

[Tywin Lannister]

TTTT literally posted an argument on ssbm being scum

What post did I miss? I saw him say 'I'm too lazy, but someone please give a case on ssbm for me to sheep.' You consider that an argument? I consider that scummy af. If he had an argument, wouldn't be just post it instead of asking for others to do it for him? How does this not make sense to anyone else? Unless I missed a more recent post, I don't know what you're talking about. What's the argument?

Also, I'd usually consider ssbm' point about an SK being scummy, but literally my last game with him (he was town), he did the same exact thing. Unless his scum game is identical to his town meta, I really don't see it.

[Tywin Lannister]

can someone who agrees do all the hard work of typing up a case so the rest of town will see it too and scum will feel forced into bussing as well?
bc I'm too lazy and nobody ever believes me anyway

Hi Vifam. Please explain how I'm oblivious, and then explain what the argument is here that you're sheeping. Thanks.

[Tywin Lannister]

K nvm then. Just saw it. Will look at it later.

[Tywin Lannister]

I was kinda hoping it wasn't true
but ssbm is scum

can someone who agrees do all the hard work of typing up a case so the rest of town will see it too and scum will feel forced into bussing as well?
bc I'm too lazy and nobody ever believes me anyway

Can you give an outline? I'm going back and forth on SSBM.

1) The RC vote then unvote
I had to ask him 3 times (2083) before he explained why he unvoted RC when he did and then his explanation was "tonal read" during the hangman shitposting.
not sure if this was ssbm backing off from distancing his partner or something else, but I still don't see how it's town!ssbm

2) Interactions with me in general are too shy
Go read my iso it's pretty clear I've been trying to sort ssbm through interactions.
There are personal meta reasons that make me think this is scum-ssbm.

3) I mentioned this already in 2484, but ssbm's vote on fuzzy in 2433 is terrible considering ssbm's "...Vifam is scum. I'm latching onto that like a pitbull and I'll let go when he goes limp and not a moment sooner" in 2129.

and I get that my case is a lot stronger to me than it will be to others, given #2.

Wait.. Really? This is all conjectured opinion. He says Kyouko is shy... And he was asked 3 times to answer a question... And vote on fuzzy was bad... And he unvoted RC.

I don't SR RC either. I think he's pretty obv town, and kyouko's original case was based on pep not RC, so tonal makes sense to me. Kyouko looks like obv town to me too.

Also, why is voting fuzzy connected with him SRing or not SRing you Vifam? So he dropped a dead wagon for an active one, and he's scum for it? That's like 90% of the game doing that. You're clearly not going to be lynched today, so it's a dead vote staying on you regardless.

So this boils down to what TTTT said originally, which was 'personal meta reasons.' Which is fine for HIM to vote based on that, but the rest can't sheep someone else's personal opinion of meta. I TR Kyouko due to personal meta, yet I'm not going to use that to make everyone else TR him. So what exactly are you SRing Kyouko for Vifam? This question goes out to all those not named TTTT on the wagon actually. I see naked votes from players like Elena (hasn't done anything), xmokjisomethingx (hasn't done anything, Vifam (at least is active), etc. These players need sorting ASAP IMO. So the RC wagon fell through and now everyone jumps on my other big TR because TTTT has personal meta reasons to believe he's scum, which coincidentally goes against my personal meta reasons to believe he's town.

TTTT: can you elaborate on what your meta read on ssbm is that makes you SR him? I TR him for the same meta reasons, so I'm wondering if you have an ssbm scum game you know of that collaborates what you're saying?

Vifam: Do you TR all those on the Kyouko wagon currently, and what about those whom have lurked all game? Even you stopped doing that starting D2. I don't like lurkers that have never tried in even one post. I can name a few that have at least been paying attention (you among them), but I definitely can't for everyone. Why am I the only one suspicious of the lurkers who just vote hop from one bad wagon to the next without reasons ever given? You can't all be scum, so there's clearly something you must be TRing these players for, right?

[Tywin Lannister]

At this point I've been more active and attentive than you

So active and attentive, yet refuse to give cases or do anything but sheep others... Hmm. I wonder why? If you have so much time to write multiple one sentence posts over and over and over and over and over and over and over again (and again and again and again) all saying practically nothing game related, shouldn't you have time to scum hunt and post cases?

Just because you post way more than me doesn't mean you've done more. One post of mine gives people far better reads on me, my thoughts, and my reads on others than like 50 of yours. Why is that? To me, it means scum, but if you have other reasons, let me know.

[Tywin Lannister]

Not reading RC as town after that rage quit.

That's not a town tell for me.

Staying to get lynched based off absolutely no case or any reasons given to SR the guy would be a town tell? How is it so hard for some to see this guy's frustration? Literally, the only player to ever give a case was Kyouko, who also happened to switch votes when he got a better read. 90% of you sheeped his reasons. Now the counter wagon to RC is OF COURSE Kyouko, because choosing the most illogical, nonsensical, and completely contradictory options are clearly the way to go. Why not, right? Smh

This shit is clearly scum driven. Use some intuition.

[Tywin Lannister]

RC knows replacing out like that gets town-read
RC's ego also can't handle being lynched as scum
I ain't giving him town-cred for quitting.

Town cred from scum is pretty damn useless anyway.

[Tywin Lannister]

If you have so much time to write multiple one sentence posts over and over and over and over and over and over and over again (and again and again and again) all saying practically nothing game related, shouldn't you have time to scum hunt and post cases?

Im not gonna post any cases

All you've done to argue that Im scum is attack my playstyle, do you have any posts by me that you think are actually scummy?



Make a case

Hi class! These posts are what us humans from the planet Earth call 'ironic hypocrisy.' Yes, say it with me. IROONIC HYP-AC-RICY. Yay good for you! You're the best at pronunciation words! Have a sticker!

Now class, do we know what these words mean? Noooo? Okay, well the words come from some Latin something or other and something or other and stuff, and then the words became real! So the first word is I RO NIC. Now, this is what we call something with irony in it. The above is a perfect example. It's when the opposite of what SHOULD happen actually happens, and we gain amusement from it. Yay class you're all learning! Now, hypocrisy is another similar word, but it deals with ownership. Vifam asks me here to give a case immediately after stating that he will never give a case on anyone. Hypocrisy is a bad thing in Mafia, because it usually points to obvious scum. Being obvious as scum is bad for Vifam, because he will be looked down on by his peers for being a burden and a hindrance to them winning the game. Typically, obvious scum get insta lynched, but sometimes games are full of very SPECIAL people! In our next class, we will discuss the nature of these very special people, the consequences of their usually wrong actions, their lack of foresight or ability to intuitively read other players correctly, and their overall hindrance on town winning the game. Special is synonymous for 'bad at Mafia.' Synonymous means... Ahh..... go fuck yourselves alien children with no common sense or initiative ability.

[Tywin Lannister]

Staying to get lynched based off absolutely no case or any reasons given to SR the guy would be a town tell? How is it so hard for some to see this guy's frustration?

It's RC. His entire meta is trying to be townread based on expressions of frustration.

Literally, the only player to ever give a case was Kyouko, who also happened to switch votes when he got a better read.

firstly, stop lying about the RC wagon being everybody sheeping ssbm.
I've pointed out why RC is likely scum all over this game
secondly, why are you assuming ssbm moved his vote bc "he got a better read"?
thirdly, you might actually be scum here.

1. I didn't lie. Reread D1 and look at everyone on the pep/RC wagon. Seriously, go read it and see everyone say 'I'm sheeping Kyouko' in their answers as to why they're voting the slot.

2. Nobody cares what your opinion is, because you're scum.

3. I don't assume. Kyouko said it himself. Again, read the damn thread.

Your blatant misreps are pretty terrible, and you've proven to never have read the game at all with your posts. Not only are you worthless and scummy, but you now resort to lying. Rich

[Tywin Lannister]

Screw this. VOTE: SSBM

Not caught up but this is better than another NL.

[Tywin Lannister]

Was today deadline or is it passed already? Oh well was V/LA with a fever past few days

[Tywin Lannister]

I'm still at work, so not caught up, but will be tonight. I'm glad Almost is in the game though. Finally someone I can understand. Will post again when I get off.

[Tywin Lannister]

Comm's defense depends on there being a Mafia Bus Driver who just so happened to target the same person as him at random.

Redirector more likely. It would completely control Comm's target.

There's still no evidence of there being a vigilante (or a redirector) though.

Fmpov I'm VT and everything is normal. I can only confirm Comm's result on me is wrong.
From Comm's pov either I am lying (despite not having a mafia result) or he was redirected to another player who happens to be a vig. Would it be worth outing a vig to save Comm?
From Ram's pov his jk worked fine and I'm either scum and couldn't make a nk.....which would conflict with Comm's result....or I'm town and nothing odd happened.

I'm sure there are others scenarios but that's where I'm at.


Is there any scenario where Comm and James are both town PRs? I don't think so. Which lynch would solve more questions?

So what you're saying is this:

Two players (Fitz/Ram) confirmed that comm could not have gotten a result on Fitz, because Fitz isn't a vigilante, and Fitz was JK, which would mean any investigation wouldn't work regardless from my understanding. Also, James claims guilty on Comm. That's three players.

On Comm's side, we have Vifam saying 'I don't know anything, I understand nothing, nothing makes sense... Oh but comm wouldn't do what he's done as Mafia.' PregrinV also defends comm, but does so by calling James a liar while ignoring the other evidence. Comm thinks this all means there has to be a bus driver.

Am I the only one that's starting to see a pattern here that implicates multiple players? If comm is scum, Vifam/peregrinV are probably scum too. Independent of comm, Vifam and peregrinV are still probably scum, but this adds attachments.

I want to hear more from comm though. He says James is lying, but ignores Ram's JK on Fitz and Fitz' claim to not be vigi. Also, if there was a vigi, where are the extra kills? Did the vigi, scum, JK, rolecop, and bus driver ALL target Fitz? I hope nobody actually believes that.

I'm only partly caught up, but read between the lines here. It's not that difficult.

[Tywin Lannister]

'I don't know anything, I understand nothing, nothing makes sense... Oh but comm wouldn't do what he's done as Mafia.' P

Do you think Comm would play way he has as scum? Like is there any actual scum motivation to anything he's done?

All I'm saying is that quite a few things point toward his direction, and his defense is 'bus driver.' Aside from that, if there was a vigi, why haven't they shot anyone? If they have, we have to assume literally the entire game targeted Fitz because... I still can't think of a reason. The only other option is a Nexus or something, which I'm not sure is actually considered normal enough for this game. Not totally up to speed on what roles are normal/abnormal/bastard on this site.

[Tywin Lannister]

Almost, talk to me here. Explain this to me:

1. Claimed JK on Fitz
2. No NK
3. Comm claims Vigi result on Fitz
4. Fitz denies, claims VT
5. No vigi kills
5a. No extra kills N1 or N2
6. James claims guilty on Comm

Do I have everything? Now, riddle me this. Why was there no scum NK? Also, why was there no vigi kill?

Even if we assume the Busdriver/Redirecter claim, the fact remains that there was no NK and no vigi kill. To assume the Busdriver claim, that means ALL of the following targeted Fitz on the exact same night: Rolecop, Jailkeeper, scum, vigilante, Busdriver/Redirecter. That's 5 roles of both alignments targeting the same player. Does that make any sense to anyone? It doesn't add up to me.

Now, there is ONE option that makes this all work in a way that everyone is telling the truth here. One, and only one option, and it takes a hell of a lot of hoop jumping and assumptions to get there. Here's what I've come up with:

1. Busdriver/Redirecter picks Fitz. This is a tricky part that requires the mod to answer which action goes first, Busdriver or jailkeeper. Assuming the Busdriver is first, then Comm's action is on a different person and Ram's action is on a different person. That person is a vigilante. Since the vigi was jail kept by ram, it means their shot didn't go through. What isn't explained is why no scum NK, unless they did actually choose ssbm for some unknown reason. So to reiterate, Busdriver, rolecop, jailkeep, maybe scum all pick Fitz to investigate, jailkeeper, switch, kill on the same night. Otherwise, scum chose ssbm to kill N1, let his lynch go through D2, and so their NK was useless. That seems like a huge stretch, but whatever. It's possible.

That's your only option to make everything work. That's assuming the Busdriver/Redirecter person exists, chose Fitz, and the person switched was the vigilante. In this option, there cannot be a scum Busdriver, because it makes no sense. So that player has to be town for it to work.

So all it takes to prove any of this is for the Busdriver to claim. That's the only option they have here, and so if nobody claims it, then we have to assume it isn't true. To not claim it at this point means either they don't exist or they're really bad scum who somehow redirected town onto town for no apparent reason. So again, there needs to be a claim, since it either confirms town or confirms scum right away.

None of this is taking into account James getting a guilty on comm, which unless there is a Busdriver claim, we should take seriously. For comm's claim to work, a hell of a lot of very improbable things need to have happened. Otherwise, it's simple to assume comm lied and just got caught. Occam's razor points to comm lying, but I'll let everyone read and digest the info first. There may be a Busdriver (they have to be town), but again, we need a claim to confirm. Otherwise, the only real lynch pool here is comm or maybe Fitz if you're frisky.

Otherwise, there was a mod error somewhere. That's the only other way this shit works, and nobody can assume that.

[Tywin Lannister]

Like I said
James' claim is mechanically more credible

RE: 5a - Why would you expect extra kills night 1 in this setup?

The 5a part was added with the 'no vigi kills.' Obviously, a vigilante shooting someone would've made it two kills on one of the nights. Maybe a vigi isn't timeshifted or whatever. Basically, I'd assume there would've had to have been two kills on either N1 or N2 (especially) for a vigi to really be proven.

[Tywin Lannister]

Like he probably could have potentially won a straight 1v1 with James because James isn't widely townread at all, why would he complicate his life like this if he's scum

Idk. I'm just pointing out the things that had to have happened for it to all work out. I'm not really going into his motivations, because I never use that in Mafia. The motivation of everyone is pretty simple: town: lynch scum, scum: not get lynched. Everything else boils down to that.

[Tywin Lannister]

Like he probably could have potentially won a straight 1v1 with James because James isn't widely townread at all, why would he complicate his life like this if he's scum

On the flip side of this though, why would James 1v1 Comm like this too? James practically announced it yesterday. He never needed to. Scum!James could've picked anyone and/or nobody to both claim he would investigate and also give a guilty result on. Pretty much, James has been on comm since D1, and comm has been on James since D1. At this point, if either one is scum, we can question why they'd do it. It wasn't necessary, and of comm flipped town, James will be getting lynched immediately the next day. It doesn't really make sense for scum to put themselves in that position.

Now Comm could do the same for James really, but he didn't. So if we lynched James and he flipped town, all Comm could say is 'must be the bus driver.' If he thought the bus driver switching him personally would give James a different result as well as him, then it would make sense for Scum!Comm to do what he's done. He's set the table for a bus driver claim after a James lynch. Make sense?

[Tywin Lannister]

Comm: why aren't you trying to figure out what happened too? A bus driver claim here could confirm multiple townies and scum, while otherwise, it pretty much has to mean you're lying. That doesn't concern you? One claim could bust the game wide open, but without one, you're the only lynch choice based on the evidence. If it were me, I'd definitely wonder why I got a vigilante result on a VT who thinks I'm scum (even if he were vigi and lied, he's ensuring your death), another cop claim got guilty on me, and the person I claimed to investigate also was jail kept. In all of that, you say it's the jailkeeper who could be lying.....that still doesn't solve the problem of you getting a vigi result on a VT. Without a vigi kill on either night, that claim also looks doubtful. Without a Busdriver claim, it pretty much ensures your lynch. So there are two players who could either confirm or deny your lynch, and you choose to pick one that has no bearing on the outcome?

That seems pretty odd to me. It's as if you expect there to be no bus driver or vigi to prove your story. So you pick the player that doesn't matter if they're lying? Is that a confusion tactic? Ram JKing Fitz doesn't matter to the truth of your claim except to help it, and only if a bus driver claims. If Ram lied, then there's still no explanation as to why no vigi kills in two nights.

[Tywin Lannister]

Okay, so I'm at work and don't have the time to explain all of this in detail, but here's my thought:

1. Almost - Vig
2. Comm - Role Cop
3. Ram - Jailkeeper

These people are now unlynchible, and anyone claiming they are scum at this point isn't reading the game. TTTT says he thinks Ram is scum, but if he believes that, then how did Almost get his shot blocked?

Here's what does add up: Redirecter/bus driver switched Fitz with Almost. Comm's investigation went onto Almost. Ram's JK went into Almost. This explains why there was no vigi shot yesterday, although I don't like the 'I'm not shooting again' thing. Since there was no shot N1 and N2 got blocked, not shooting again gives me conspiracy theory doubts about both comm and Almost. Regardless, they're unlynchible right now.

Here's what does not add up: there was no Mafia NK.

Conspiracy theory logic would be that scum!Almost got blocked by Ram. He knew this was bad, so the only explanation was to claim 'vigilante.' To back that story up, his buddy scum!Comm would've claimed to get that result on a random player. If nobody counters, Almost is free to claim it. If they do, the 'Redirecter' story still works and a vigilante is outed. What they cannot explain away is no vigi shots period, and also no scum NK. They also cannot directly explain away a guilty result from James without saying 'Mafia framer.' Everyone following me?

So here's how we solve this. Either James is lynched or Comm is lynched. One flip should prove the other, assuming that both aren't great at scum theater by bussing each other into clearing the winner of the 1v1. Since that's hard to believe (and if true, we lost already), we have to assume that either flip will basically confirm the alignment of the other. If James flips town, Comm is for sure scum along with Almost. If James flips scum, then it clears those two into confirmed status. The same goes for Comm in this scenerio. Comm could be a scum role cop here who investigated Fitz/Almost. This would collaborate the vigi claim, but it doesn't mean he's town. Role cops are usually scum aligned from my experience, so again, comm may be scum here. The reason I doubt it is due to his play rather than any evidence proving otherwise.

So the only question remaining is do we lynch James or do we lynch Comm. I don't see a scenerio that gives more info. The only uneasy part is that there's still no Busdriver claim.

[Tywin Lannister]

I agree with Vifam here shockingly. What are you getting at with Almost's claim?

[Tywin Lannister]

Lols!!! Ok well, are we going to extend the day to talk, or are we quickhammering James? Idc either way. I guess he saw the writing on the wall, unless he's protecting someone. I can't see a reason to claim scum there otherwise. There was still a chance of comm or almost being lynched, albeit really small.

[Tywin Lannister]

hmmm, mod, you WIFOMing as good as most people here, i was expecting James modkill, but now i have no idea what expect from him claim

What does this even mean? Has James claimed scum when actually town before? Lol, I can't see any reason someone would do that aside from rage quitting out of frustration, and he wasn't defending himself like a frustrated player would. Pretty sure he already knew he was caught and wanted to end discussion.

[Tywin Lannister]

Lol TTTT

[Tywin Lannister]

James is at L1. Again, are we discussing this day further or quickhammering? Don't do it without the replacements at least chiming in. I don't like how James tried to end the day ASAP with his scum claim.

[Tywin Lannister]

Anyways I'm heading home from work, so I'll catch up completely and answer your questions when I get home Almost

[Tywin Lannister]

Well uhm either way the only way for Almost to be scum is for Comm to be scum too and that's unlikely so

Not even going to argue. I can see just about every scenario at this point.

I mean... Even I agree with Vifam here. Almost can't be scum due to the investigation of Comm, and the jailkeep from Ram explains no shot, at least for one night. Otherwise, the people whom the bus driver switched didn't include Almost, and so Almost is lying and the real vig is letting him. Regardless, I think the only real scenerio that he's scum is if Comm was also scum. There's too many seperate things involved that substantiate it. I'm positive Almost would lie about it if it benefited him, but I don't think Comm would too. I do think Almost is lying about modifiers and things, but that doesn't really matter anyways. It only affects scum.

[Tywin Lannister]

Comm: just to be 100% clear here, your result PM explicitly said 'vigilante' right?

[Tywin Lannister]

Well uhm either way the only way for Almost to be scum is for Comm to be scum too and that's unlikely so

Not even going to argue. I can see just about every scenario at this point.

I mean... Even I agree with Vifam here. Almost can't be scum due to the investigation of Comm, and the jailkeep from Ram explains no shot, at least for one night. Otherwise, the people whom the bus driver switched didn't include Almost, and so Almost is lying and the real vig is letting him. Regardless, I think the only real scenerio that he's scum is if Comm was also scum. There's too many seperate things involved that substantiate it. I'm positive Almost would lie about it if it benefited him, but I don't think Comm would too. I do think Almost is lying about modifiers and things, but that doesn't really matter anyways. It only affects scum.

Do you understand that if we lynch CommKnight, we can catch or confirm one or more scum?

The only scenerio I can come up with for Almost lying here is for him to bait the real vig to claim. Since James claimed scum almost immediately after, it stops any other possible lynch from happening, and so scum would have the vig outted while Almost stays alive for another day to do.. whatever. It's a bad trade off for scum IMO, because a counter outs two scum in a row for the benefit of outting 1 PR. I just don't see Almost making that choice as scum, because the potential benefit is outweighed by the cost. A 1 for 1 isn't very good unless it's an extremely important role, which a cop could be (so James' claim makes sense to out comm, and he got the watcher too), but a vigi isn't in the same category unless it's Lylo or close to it and scum can afford the trade.

Idk, I get what you're saying about not confirming him, but he's not the best lynch today. James claimed scum, so unless he's trolling, we gotta take the sure thing.

[Tywin Lannister]

Ram: why did you use your ability on Comm N2? I accept that you did, but why? He's a claimed role cop. What benefit did you see from doing that? Did you think he was scum and was lying?

[Tywin Lannister]

PeregrinV: I'm still not following why you don't think James is the best lynch. He claimed scum. Do you think he's just trolling, or do you want to gamble on someone else even though there's a sure thing right in front of you? Why gamble today? What benefit is there to lynch Comm over James? You said James is only the 2nd best lynch today, so why is Comm the first? I'm not following your logic. What does lynching comm gain over lynching sure scum?

Tbh, the only reason I can think of to not lynch James today is that his scum claim and self vote strike me as protecting someone else from getting the noose. Idk what other reason anyone would literally claim scum when they aren't even L1 and nowhere near deadline. Granted, he was the most likely lynch at that point, but there could've been swings onto other players hypothetically. James claiming at that point makes me think a counter wagon was also scum.

[Tywin Lannister]

I've been in games I was so frustrated that I almost claimed scum just to end the day, but I never did it, and I always somehow managed to not get lynched. The only time I did get lynched was when I was V/LA and not there to defend myself from a raging Titus who wanted to OMGUS wagon anyone that ever voted or disagreed with her. Nero was scum in that game, so he knows what I'm talking about. I was frustrated, because logic dictated that a specific player (whom I called scum all game long) was 100% confirmed scum, but Titus wanted to lose the game over actually playing Mafia the right way. It was so frustrating to argue with her and have her dismiss every fact and logical thought with absolutely insane theories that never made any sense, and scum coasted the entire game due to her. She couldn't even be policy lynched due to being confirmed by another player, and she lasted until Lylo only because she was so wrong on absolutely every read.

That game was an aberration though, and being so frustrated and pissed off by terrible decisions by town was clearly shown through my posts. I doubt anyone could mistake them for being faked, although Titus did try to claim I faked frustration at every turn, because that was the only conf bias she could logically use to dismiss everything I was saying.

Now compared to that, how frustrated does James seem? He doesn't seem frustrated whatsoever to me. There's no emotion in his posts that make me believe 'pissed off/railroaded townie.' RC looked that way for sure when he was still here, so compare those posts to James. So why would a non-frustrated townie ever claim scum at that point? He wasn't L1, it wasn't deadline, and other lynches were still possible. I can't see any reason to believe he's town here. He'd have to be trolling pretty hard, and it wouldn't be out of frustration.

[Tywin Lannister]

Isn't it already obvious that those of us not voting am only doing so to not quickhammer James? Yet stupid players like Fuzzy just HAVE to jump on the wagon, because you know, town cred and stuff. It's ridiculous. If anyone quick votes James without the majority of us ready to end the day, they're getting lynched tomorrow.

[Tywin Lannister]

I mean, anyone reading the game can see why the rest of us aren't voting or in TTTT's case, unvoted James. I have no doubts that some idiot lurker will come in and lol hammer without reading anything, but let's not have the actually active players do it. Sly said he wants to vote, but he held back to not end the day. Compare that with fuzzy who didn't give a fuck and voted James immediately while adding absolutely nothing to the discussion. It's not like he gives a shit if the day ends early, because he's done jack shit but claim confusion. Scum clearly want the day ended ASAP. Wouldn't surprise me if fuzzy is one of them.

[Tywin Lannister]

I was going to vote Comm..... he has the cop guilty on him but James claiming scum changed my mind. I think to lynch a cop guilty is the best play t that moment, but lynching James seems a no brainer at this moment
I can see however how you can dislike my play .

Tywin can you explain why I should not vote James when he confessed scum

Why do I have to hold your hand just because you don't read the thread? It's not that difficult. We all specifically said not to quicklynch James. TTTT even unvoted to make sure some idiot couldn't do it, but of course, you swoop out of nowhere to vote James after we all SPECIFICALLY said not to quicklynch him. If TTTT didn't unvote due to expecting some idiot like you to quick vote James without reading a single thing nor adding anything whatsoever to any discussion currently going on, the day would be over. What you did was ignorant at best, and scummy at worst, because only scum want the day to end so quickly.

So again, read the damn thread. There are quite a few of us that have withheld our votes so that the day isn't over yet, and when lurkers like you swoop in trying to end it anyways, that definitely sets off my scumdar.

[Tywin Lannister]

Almost: why do you keep saying 'scum Redirector' as if you already know the role and alignment? Why does it need to be scum that redirected town onto town? That makes literally no sense. In my view, it's probably a town Busdriver. Why they picked you or Fitz I have no idea, but scum directing a town cop onto another town makes no sense at all. Care to explain why you're so sure it's a scum Redirector and can't be a town Busdriver or something?

[Tywin Lannister]

Which again, is convienent that you say 'scum Redirecter' to show that you'd know who the real vig is if scum. If it's a town Busdriver, then no, you wouldn't know who the vig is. Your argument has a lot of holes and too many assumptions.

[Tywin Lannister]

I completely answered your question. You're just too dense to know better. Quicklynching James at that point was scummy, because we were discussing things. Only scum would want to end the days I quickly. It doesn't matter now, but the point remains. You refusing to acknowledge what you did is obvious misdirection. It's common sense, and you claiming I didn't answer the question is a lie as well. You're clearly not this dumb.

[Tywin Lannister]

Directed to fuzzy

[Tywin Lannister]

Why did these people quickhammer the James wagon that was obviously being stalled for more discussion? It wasn't like anyone else was ever going to be lynched. So can anyone explain the fake looking emotion hammer? 'Oh, well NOW that he claims Busdriver, let's quicklynch him even though we know the wagon was stalled purely for further discussion. I mean, claiming scum didn't do it, but bus driv r? Oh hell no, quicklynch lol hammer! And V/LA /kanyeshrug'. Smh. That looked fucking planned. James clearly claimed scum to end the day ASAP. It was stalled on purpose to find more scum, but then James claims Busdriver and these guys end the day ASAP just like scum wanted. Looks contrived as fuck to me. We weren't stalling the lynch for James' benefit. Smfh

[Tywin Lannister]

i was thinking, what chances that there are no redirector? Fitz is real vig, A50 admitted he fakeclaimed anyway, so maybe we should put last mafia (Fuzzy) out of his misery today?

That doesn't add up to why Fitz would hang comm out to dry like that though. Comm was a legit lynch candidate until Almost confirmed he's the vigi, and Fitz was scum reading comm too. That makes no sense whatsoever in the context of how it played out.

IMO, Fitz is probably the SK, almost is the real vigi, and fuzzy is still scum regardless. 3 NKs pretty much confirms both a vigi and an SK, so it also confirms Comm/Almost. The only other option is if comm was a Mafia rolecop, but it makes no sense for James to vs him then. It would take a hell of a lot of scum theater to pull off what they did if both were scum buddies, so I don't really see it.

Also, I don't like Elena's vote. It's trash reasoning, and when questioned, her only response was 'I already gave my reason' and 'his ISO looks funny.' It's complete garbage reasoning, and she's ignoring the JK claim on purpose. Only scum (or SK I guess) would want to lynch a JK claim when there are so many lurkers and completely useless players hiding out and prod dodging every couple of days. Elena is one of them actually. I can't name a single thing that Elena has done since replacing in, and voting a JK claim that ADMITTED to jailing Comm last night is ridiculously stupid. All Comm needs to do is confirm or deny getting a result, and it confirms that Ram is either really a JK or he's a Mafia roleblocker. Those are the only two options, and I can't think of any reason why a Mafia roleblocker would admit to blocking a cop for no reason at all.

So yeah, I'm calling BS on scum Elena.

VOTE: Elena

@Elena: Please explain

[Tywin Lannister]

With 17 players and a bunch of town PRs, I'm pretty sure there's at least 4 scum. Maybe 5. My last game had 4 and a traitor with less players and not as many PRs. Idk if timeshift mechanic or SK change that idea though.

[Tywin Lannister]

Can anyone explain why I...as sk....which I'm not btw...would target any of the nk victims over a JK/RB who has been shading/annoying me the entire time I've been in the game?

Look, I'm NOT FoS'ing you, but your avatar is annoying to me. It always gives me the impression I'm talking to an inmate bully!!

The question is to anyone claiming I'm sk....ex Ramcius and Tywin.

I called you SK for a couple of reasons, most of which are now null since Almost confirmed to be the one to NK two people today (so no SK kill):

1. There was no NK last night phase, and Ram specifically jailed you. That led me to believe you couldn't SK kill anyone based on the jailkeep.

2. A Redirecter went onto Almost, so Comm's result went there regardless of checking you. In that case, you were still jailkept by Ram, and again, no NKs yesterday.

3. You scum read Comm even after Almost confirmed being the vig. It looked off, because regardless that you weren't the vig, lynching comm after the Almost claim would've been anti-town.

So technically, you could still be scum that was blocked by Ram leading to no scum NK, but you can't be the SK because Almost confirmed he shot two people today. He confirmed that after I posted my thought about you being SK. Scum is still a possibility though.

[Tywin Lannister]

So this is purely a VC analysis.

(Note: I updated the current player in that slot so we can compare THEIR slot to interactions of their previous members).

- D1 when I was voting James, both XnadrojX and SlySly slots voted James.
- D1 both Elena Fisher and Vifam slots voted XnadrojX's slot.
- D1 James voted SlySly's slot.
- D1 Nero Cain slot votes for XnadrojX's slot.
- EoD D1 vote count shows both James and Nero Cain not voting for Vifam who would've been lynched if they had voted.

- D2 James starts on SlySly and Nero starts on Fuzzy
- D2 Nero Cain moves to vote Not Chara's slot.
- D2 SlySly is voting James.
- D2 James switches to vote Not Chara's slot, now both James and Nero Cain are voting for Not Chara.
- D2 Vifam and Elena Fisher are early adopters of my wagon on SSBM.
- EoD D2 lynch shows both Nero and Tywin moving to help lynch SSBM.

- D3 Nero starts out voting Not Chara's slot again.
- D3 Elena Fisher and Vifam are early adopters to pushing Jame's lynch through.
- D3 Nero moves to bus vote James.
- EoD D3 lynch shows that after pulling off, Nero replaces his vote on James to hammer him.

From this (purely vote analytical) analysis. I'd be comfortable saying Vifam and Elena Fisher would be scum partners if either is scum. I'd say Not Chara is town. I'd even say XnadrojX and SlySly look town based off votes and who've flipped as scum/town.

Possible 5th mafia, but I think 3rd and 4th mafia are either XnadrojX and SlySly or Vifam and Elena Fisher. We don't have any claims in these 4 and their voting patterns seem to point at second duo being it.

Also based off the two confirmed scum not mislynching Vifam D1.. that further points at their pair being it.

VOTE: Vifam

I have one problem here with what you said about me moving to help lynch SSBM. While I did hammer, I clearly was against the ssbm wagon for the entire day (as well as the RC counter-wagon. I TRed them both), and the only reason I moved on it to hammer was because there was a NL the day before and absolutely nobody was following my votes/wagons on other players. Since there wasn't any options beyond gamble on a bad wagon in SSBM or get a second consecutive NL, I gambled on the L1 player. RC was at L2 and was even more town to me than SSBM, but let it be known that I defended them both. I was ignored and called scum for it.

[Tywin Lannister]

It was also like an hour before deadline and I had already been ninja'd by the mod D1 before I (thought) I could hammer Vifam. So I didn't take the chance of two NLs in a row, although I'm pretty sure Vifam was saved by scum. They'd have totally gone with the lynch hammer if Vifam was town. I thought he was L1 when I got ninja'd at deadline, but it turns out he was L2 or L3 anyways, so my vote would not have mattered.

[Tywin Lannister]

I'm also ok with a Vifam lynch, but i want Elena to answer why she voted Ram, the claimed JK, over anyone else. Common sense says he's the wrong lynch today even if she conceived of some way to SR him using scum theater as the reason.

[Tywin Lannister]

Not Chara (RC's slot) also questioned Elena and got unspecific/bad answers. I need to VCA who was on the RC wagon for two days again too, because those players went from RC and then SSBM, made them the two counter wagons, and had absolutely no logical reasons behind it. From what I remember, SRing RC meant they should've TR SSBM, since they all sheeped ssbm's case on RC to begin with, and after I questioned them over and over with no responses as to why they were voting RC, they said specifically that they were sheeping SSBM. So then the next day comes and they all vote SSBM and flip between those two wagons, and in that situation, they could NOT have legitimately scum read them both. SSBM switched his SR stance on RC to a TR, and that got him lynched by scum.

Everyone following me here? So the important thing IMO is to look at D1/D2 RC and SSBM wagons and see why people voted either. I questioned both wagons and got shit on for it. If people TR Not Chara now, then them voting SSBM was either really bad town play or a possible scum tell.

You can't sheep your SR and have it make sense. They'd all have to TR SSBM to sheep his wagon on RC/Not Chara, so lynching him the following day while ALSO still SRing RC/Not Chara makes no sense whatsoever from any town perspective.

[Tywin Lannister]

I'm also ok with a Vifam lynch, but i want Elena to answer why she voted Ram, the claimed JK, over anyone else. Common sense says he's the wrong lynch today even if she conceived of some way to SR him using scum theater as the reason.

Already answered

Nope. Try again. You ignored his JK claim on purpose. Answer my question and stop deflecting.

[Tywin Lannister]

Didn't deflect just because you dislike my answer doesn't mean I didn't answer it try again.

All you basically said was that lynching a lurker gets no info, but you still haven't really explained why you'd SR Ram when he claimed JK and the evidence supports the claim? Comm didn't say whether he got a result or not, but I think it's safe to say he didn't.

So for you to SR Ram, you have to specifically think he's a Mafia roleblocker, right? I don't think jailkeeper can be scum, but correct me if I'm wrong. So that's a pretty specific read on Ram, and you'd have to also believe he'd tell everyone he blocked comm for some specific reason. I can't think of any, but maybe you can?

I'm curious as to what your thought process is with it. I can understand how lynching a lurker gives less info, but I don't see what into lynching Ram would get. If he flips JK as claimed, then what info do we gain? If he flips scum, well that's nice, but I still don't see what extra info is available. He was defending James most of D1/2 and went after Comm D1, but I chalk it up to meta reasons. They know each other from Epic Mafia, so it makes sense for Ram to disbelieve James' claim while also not SRing him for it.

So what am I missing here? What exactly is your case on Ram that (at the time) made him a better lynch than the pool of players you listed a page ago?

[Tywin Lannister]

What does Yume/Not Chara have to do with you being scum or not? Nobody is lynching NC, and I don't see anyone SRing them either, so that was an awkward statement to make.

[Tywin Lannister]

Since everyone is giving lists, here's mine from Town/Null/Scum:

Town, obvious to somewhat null: Almost, Comm, Ram, Not Chara, HavingFitz

Lynch Pool: Elena, Sly, Xnad, Vifam, Fuzzy

Side notes:

Fitz COULD be scum based on the JK from Ram, but probably not after people explained the Mafia timeshift stuff. I guess either is possible, but I think scum are far more likely in the lynch pool players.

Idk why Sly's gotten a free pass all game, but he still hasn't done anything to help find scum. He basically called everyone scum above, even the practically confirmed players.

Elena voting Ram was weird, but at least she answered my questions. I still don't like the reasoning, but it's not enough to call her scum. I'd have to ISO her slot to see what's there, since I can't remember much from her or the original player.

How has this xnad player not been replaced yet? I didn't even remember he was in the game, and apparently he's V/LA for a week whenever he's not prod dodging every couple of days.

Vifam not getting lynched D1 was weird. I thought I was ninja'd from hammering, but D2 I found out that he was like L2 or L3. I don't see why scum would let a townie live on D1 in that situation, so it points to scum (along with entire content/lack of it from Vifam). I've played 1 game with him before (We were both town), and Vifam was much more proactive in looking for scum.

Fuzzy keeps getting a pass too, and I still don't know why. His posts don't look nefarious or feel like he's lying, but he hasn't actually scum hunted anyone all game. He hasn't even accused anyone of being scum. When he voted James, he sheeped a wagon that was already a sure thing and his reasoning was just sheeping what a good 5+ players already said. He was late to the party, and he voted only after it was set in stone (James had already claimed scum). What I didn't like was him voting after we all agreed to not quicklynch James to extend the day a bit. Nero obvious hammered James, and James was voting himself. He claimed scum. What that tells me is that scum wanted to end the day ASAP for whatever reason. I'm not sure why, but it's obvious that they did. Due to that, it makes me even more suspicious of Fuzzy voting James (again, late to the party) after we said not to and even TTTT and others unvoted to stop an lol hammer. Nero did it regardless when he got the chance. I was the only one to question why fuzzy did that, and he never did answer my question. He deflected and said 'why don't you want to lynch James?' even though it was obvious what I was asking in the context. It wasn't about why he would be voting James, but why he would vote after we all specifically were delaying the game to extend the day/find more scum.

As a side note to that, HavingFitz/Vifam/Nero quicklynched James after he claimed Busdriver, as if it was too much to wait anymore. Him claiming scum didn't do it, but Busdriver did? Note that Vifam/Nero were last two to hammer in quick succession.

So anyways, I'm okay with any of the 5 I mentioned, and I'm more than good with a Vifam lynch, but I think all 5 need sorting. None have specifically done or said much beyond Sly on D1 and Vifam/Elena after D1. Actual content only came from Elena/Vifam too (not much, but a little is still far better than none). The rest have done nothing. Sly just calls everyone scum that doesn't completely TR him, even the most obv town. It takes some mental gymnastics to call Comm/Almost scum based on what's happened the past two day/night phases, and if they are, we already lost this game IMO. They're not getting lynched, and I can't come up with a single reason for Almost to be scum whatsoever after Nero died. He'd have to be SK if not town, but Comm's investigation confirms there's a vigi. I've never heard of an SK+1 team, so sly calling these two scum is in itself scummy af.

[Tywin Lannister]

Fooooooooooock.
Not Chara...Tywin...XNADROJX!!!, FuzzyLogic, SlySly ...and even Vifam....please engage the game and/or vote. Give reads...something. ffs

Zzzzzzzzzz

I'll vote and/or hammer whenever Vifam comes back to respond to it. If they flaked completely, then I'll do it soon. I'd still rather them be able to claim and say whatever they need to before we quicklynch anyone.

[Tywin Lannister]

Actually, looking at the latest VC, everyone in my town list minus Not Chara is voting Vifam, and everyone not voting (again, aside from NC) are in my possible scum pool. That looks pretty telling actually. Scum wouldn't lynch Vifam D1, and now they don't wanna vote him again.

I'm still gonna wait for tonight like Vifam asked, but it's something that came to my attention just now.

[Tywin Lannister]

I feel like sly hasn't read the game since D1 with his posts, because he's not dumb/bad, and him calling Almost/Comm/Ram all scum (although he said 'something' made him change his stance on comm) just seems ridiculous. I've tried, and I can't think of any way that comm/Almost could be scum based on Comm's vigi investigation D3 and Almost killing two people (and 1 scum) last night phase. Scum don't NK their partners, and the only possible way I can see them being scum is some extreme scum bussing/theater and both comm/Almost would have to be scum here. Otherwise, it's possible (basically no chance, but possible) that comm is a Mafia roleblocker. I don't see it as even close to likely though, and regardless, Almost is basically cleared after the Nero shot. If comm is scum, I'll consider him an amazing scum player post game. I mean, the only other chance they're all scum is multi-ball, but I don't think the game's big enough for that, and the NK numbers don't support it.

So yeah, either sly hasn't read any of that, or he's scum trying his best to place doubt on everyone else. Idc if he thinks I'm scum cuz of wall posts (that's a really bad reason though), but the rest just don't make sense.

Other players that don't read look to be fuzzy and xnaj. Idk why people sign up for games they don't intend to play in. Sly admitted RL getting in the way at least, and he didn't start out as a lurker.

[Tywin Lannister]

Catching up now, but so far, it seems everyone is all over the place. Vifam was about to be lynched, didn't care, so now it's fuzzy, sly, Elena are being pushed. Vifam escapes another lynch. I'm fine with voting elsewhere since it's just a process of elimination at this point, but wagons stalling only because a player doesn't really care if they're lynched seems off. It wouldn't surprise me at all if scum stopped caring after James and Nero died, so I'm not gonna buy the 'lynch me idc, but I'm not scum so lynch these other players I mention' thing.

Aside from that, everyone needs sorting anyways, so I don't see it as a bad thing.

@fuzzy: Stop calling yourself bad all the time. It's not about that. What has pinged me constantly is that it's your go to excuse whenever you're questioned, but you don't ever try to change anything. You refuse to push anyone, and the very few SRs you ever have aren't questioned by you either. Essentially, you're refusing to scum hunt anyone, and your excuse is that you're just bad. If you were trying, why haven't you tried to find scum? I'm not questioning effort more so than what your alignment/wincon is. If scum, then you obviously can be trying while not pushing to lynch scum. If town, then I don't see what you're doing that equates to trying. You're always on the fence, and the one time you seemed to push for a scum lynch was after they were already caught (James) and there was no chance for another lynch regardless. So you hopped on an already sure thing and then when I questioned why you'd vote after we were purposely delaying things, you went after me saying I didn't want to lynch James. You either didn't read anything or you were trying to push a false narrative on me regardless of the context. Which one is it? If you didn't read anything, then you clearly aren't trying the way you've claimed. If you did, then what didn't you understand in the context of what I asked and what others like TTTT/Comm said as well (which was 'don't quicklynch James')?

IMO, you hopping on at that point was the same as Nero jumping to make the hammer. It was for town cred. Then you tried throwing shade on me for not being on the wagon as if I wanted someone else lynched, but that goes against everything I as well as others said at the time. Why push that narrative? Who else do you SR besides me and why? Why haven't you pushed/questioned anyone else? You seem to only respond when someone calls you out. Why?

Im just trying to understand your mindset here.

[Tywin Lannister]

VOTE: Elena
Gut tells me so.
Also tywin is still town. Vifam is idk.
A brief skim makes me think I should lynch this slot.

Okay, but why do you TR me? Why do you SR Elena? Why is Vifam idk? Any other SRs or TRs?

[Tywin Lannister]

To be quite frank you Sly and xnadro have done nothing what so ever this game and should be lynched ASAP while we have the time (vigged if you have the shots,) Then the game can move forward. Fuzz feels like coasting scum and the fact I have no defenders and everyone is just jumping at the chance to lynch me should tell you enough, xnadro's vote on me is by far the worst

What am I at atm?

Dunno but UNVOTE: [/ for now. It was a placeholder vote anyways. Not gonna let a lurker quicklynch anyone.

[Tywin Lannister]

Stupid phone.

UNVOTE:

[Tywin Lannister]

Tywin
I pushed you because you were saying that James was scum but did not seem at all to even attempt to vote for him. As far as I could tell it seems that you did not even say you had any real intention to vote for him. Than you intentionally held up the
James vote. You could be town but because of these things I am null scum reading you.

My James vote was a reaction to everything that had happened. I was busy with RL things and when I got back James claimed and than slipped with his role. There was little I could do. It was not like I was MIA for a few days. I was gone about 1 day and all
that happened. This game is fast and a lot tend to happens within 24 hours. To blame me for that is silly

Also I did push players. I pushed Sly for a while. So you saying I have not push anyone is untrue

Chara
I am aware of my meta very much...... but this is not the case. It is just me being a unconfident player.

Town read
Not Chara
Almost

Scun reads ( in no order)
Tywin
Sly
Elaine

Twin????- I am confused on what to do with him

the rest is still null or need better reads

So wait.. You think I intentionally held up the James vote (I did), but then you also think I SR him yet didn't intend to vote him? Why? That sounds like you're twisting what happened to fit a false narrative. Then you admit to not reading anything due to RL, but you read everything enough to think I didn't intend to vote James? How does that work? If you didn't read, then why do you think what you do? If you did read, then why are you ignoring what was said by me (and others like TTTT, Comm, etc) to throw shade on me?

Your story doesn't work both ways. Did you SR TTTT and Comm too for saying stop voting James and if anyone quicklynches him without everyone agreeing, they'll be lynched next? If you did read, then you saw me ask everyone if we are lynching James now (far before you ever showed up to vote) or are we stalling to find more scum, right? If you didn't read it, then you're not putting in the effort you claimed.

Your reaction vote isn't what I ever questioned. I didn't question your vote on James nor the reason. He claimed scum. He was obviously the unanimous lynch. I questioned your vote, because multiple players either held off on voting or unvoted so players like you couldn't quicklynch and end the day. You tried anyways.

[Tywin Lannister]

To clarify, we were stalling the lynch A) so that everyone could speak first (Yume flaked, but we didn't know at the time), and B) because scum obviously wanted to end the day ASAP. Nero hammered as soon as possible, and James was voting himself. You didn't see that and question anything? IMO, they had a reason to end the day so fast, yet you jumped right in to get on the wagon multiple players held their votes or unvoted to avoid quicklynching for the above reasons. Then you tried throwing shade on those not voting James even though it was stated pretty clearly why. Sly held his vote for a reason. I held mine. TTTT unvoted. Comm said anyone who lol hammers gets lynched the next day. Seems like you didn't care what anyone else said as long as you were on the wagon at the very last second, which was the same thing Nero did. Scum had day talk too, so you don't think it was coordinated?

[Tywin Lannister]

Also, what about the rest of the players in the game? Any reads on them? You listed only 5.

[Tywin Lannister]

Nice case sly. Way to chainsaw for fuzzy.

[Tywin Lannister]

Tywin 101:

1. Make the short story long.

So you think I'm scum because my posts are long, or because you simply don't like to read anything? You already admitted already to not having read a single thing all game, so I just think you're useless scum that can't make an actual case. You've just used excuses all game as to why you're useless af, admit to not reading or trying whatsoever, and then chainsaw when I question your scum buddy fuzzy. If fuzzy flips scum, you're next bud.

Aside from that, carry on being useless and scummy at every turn, and congrats on posting the worst case you possibly could. You really couldn't think of anything better? Did Nero dying take away all your help? Interesting how all of a sudden, life just changed for you! It was so tough for you to post or read during the last two phases, because naturally, life got in the way right after D1 like clockwork. Then Nero died and BAM all of a sudden your schedule is clear! What a coincidence!

Oh, I went over my word quota already. Damn. Here, have a tl;dr: Sly is obv scum and his buddy is fuzzy.

[Tywin Lannister]

Tywin, why you not voting Vifam to put him at L-1, but instead you said he escaped lynch again? I clearly remember your promise vote him before you gone for weekend

Cuz everyone unvoted and looked elsewhere after Vifam asked for more time to say.... nothing at all actually. I'm not sure why Vifam asked for more time when he didn't actually do anything with it. I'd still vote there, but now I want Sly lynched. He's obv scum IMO, but he kept getting free passes all game because of his excuses. Take those away as fake and he practically screams scum.

[Tywin Lannister]

Tywin, why you not voting Vifam to put him at L-1, but instead you said he escaped lynch again? I clearly remember your promise vote him before you gone for weekend

Cuz everyone unvoted and looked elsewhere after Vifam asked for more time to say.... nothing at all actually. I'm not sure why Vifam asked for more time when he didn't actually do anything with it. I'd still vote there, but now I want Sly lynched. He's obv scum IMO, but he kept getting free passes all game because of his excuses. Take those away as fake and he practically screams scum.

i don't want Sly lynch based on his interactions with Nero, Nero was pushing him pretty hard, but he never tried push Vifam, contrary, Vifam was his top TR, but he never said why, also RC replace out - scum, Vifam - town action, when Kyo was L-3 and i was alone on Wifam wagon, Nero asked me to choose other wagon that more likely to go trough, we strugle with a VT lynch since D1, how that possible?

I'll have to reread, because I don't remember it. If true, then you're probably right. I didn't see anyone question or really interact with Nero much, so the Almost shot was a pretty good read/call.

What pings me the most was Sly's read list that called you, Almost, and comm scum. You're all basically as clear as I think anyone can be, yet he still threw that out there. It means either he didn't read anything (which he claims he's read every post in the game), or he's scum trying to throw shade on obvious town. It didn't make sense in the context he posted it, because Nero was already dead, James lynched, Comm had already given his investigation, and you had already claimed to have jailed comm last night. It was just weird. I don't even remember who he actually TR in it, but it was someone in the lynch pool. It just looked off, but Almost laughed about it and said he wouldn't vote sly over it. Since I didn't read it as a joke, I still question why he made the post. He never did answer.

[Tywin Lannister]

What pings me the most was Sly's read list that called you, Almost, and comm scum.

I said they were scummy. You keep trying to take the "my" away. I'm gonna keep adding it back on every time you try.

I have no idea what this means.

[Tywin Lannister]

I've asked this before and nobody claimed having been neighborized by PV. It thus follows PV must've neighborized a scumster or not at all. I'm leaning the former. Scum found out about him being a neighborizer and took him out, but I cannot really take a guess of any degree of confidence on whom PV might've targeted with his ability. Any thoughts?

I still don't understand why scum took out a neighbor over a vigilante, role cop, or jailkeeper. It doesn't make any sense, especially when James made his claim of guilty on comm trying to get him lynched. It was an obvious sacrifice play that didn't work, so instead they left the role cop alive to take out a neighbor? Who was PV scum reading? How does neighbor work? Do neighbors enter scum chat when they use the ability? It would make a lot more sense for him to be NK'd then.

[Tywin Lannister]

So I tried going back to ISO PV's last few posts to see his reads before his NK, but I don't think it means anything. He was going after comm and Almost, not Nero or James. He did also mention a few others though. They're basically everyone already in the lynch pool.

James3 [L-1] CommKnight, Elena Fisher, Vifam, Nero Cain, James3, Almost50 CommKnight, Elena Fisher, Vifam, Nero Cain, James3, Almost50, FuzzyLogic

Yep, my bad...L-1. I was thinking it was 9 to lynch.

So how long we playing out this day?
Why aren't you voting anyone PerV?

Hopefully longer than 48 hours.

Like who? Claims, I want Comm.
Crap play? Fuzzy, XnadrojX
No play? Yume.

And want more from Yume, Nero, Elena, Sly

[Tywin Lannister]

So I tried going back to ISO PV's last few posts to see his reads before his NK, but I don't think it means anything. He was going after comm and Almost, not Nero or James. He did also mention a few others though. They're basically everyone already in the lynch pool.

Again; PV was most likely shot on N2, after he had neighborized someone on N1. He probably was non-consecutive (as is Comm). If you want to take a guess, I think you should check his posts towards the end of D1 (thus the reads he used to invite his N1 target). Anything after that is not important (unless he intended to invite someone they didn't want in that neighborhood, which I doubt).

If this were true though, then he'd have still scum read whatever player he neighborized on D2 as well.

[Tywin Lannister]

Am I the only one that never understands the point of soft claiming a PR? I'd scum didn't have other PR targets, it absolutely puts a target on your back. It helps nobody but scum at that point, and the only reason to not fully claim is if it's a high-priority target for scum (like Doctor maybe). Otherwise, it's still just telling scum 'NK me ASAP.'

Better to either fully claim (if it helps town in some way) or to not claim at all unless totally necessary. Even VTs claiming is dumb, because it just lets scum narrow down the possible PR list. It better for a VT to be NK'd before a PR, so someone like fuzzy claiming VT right away is just dumb. It leaves him alive if town, but since he's not a strong player that helps town much, it doesn't help anyone when a stronger player/PR gets NK'd instead.

Just my $0.02 though. Obviously, it depends on the situation.

[Tywin Lannister]

Tywin
I am sorry I got you twisted into a bunch bc I role claimed. It was a bad move but compared to some other dumb moves town has pulled me claiming VT is minor.

Almost
I don't like how you are role fishing..... it comes off bad.

I just used you as an example. I'm not twisted in a bunch. I just gave my general thoughts on claiming. It's just my opinion about it for any game really. It's not really about this one.

[Tywin Lannister]

Why hasn't xnaj been replaced yet? The guy is a master prod dodger apparently. Why's he do it though if he doesn't intend to play? What's the point? Just get replaced.

[Tywin Lannister]

Prodding Xnadrojx

Can we lynch this?

If he isn't replaced soon (and with someone that will actually contribute), I'm more than ok with that. With how many already replaced in this game, i question how/why this guy hasn't yet. It isn't like he's even reading based on the few posts I remember from him.

Soft claiming is mostly to do 1 of 2 things

1) incase you get a cc increase your evidence/proof
2) Give info to other players without others knowing like cop results doc saves etc
Why are we on this topic again?

Almost wants Sly to claim, because Sly has already soft claimed a PR, yet refuses to fully claim without being L1 first. Since he already soft claimed, I don't see a reason not to fully claim and narrow the lynch pool down. Otherwise, he could be scum that's been pretending/crumbling to be a PR, but refuses to say what when it matters.

So there is a reason to talk about it, although my post was just a general statement for my dislike of people claiming without reason. There is a reason now (assuming he's not a doctor or something), but it's not like it's Lylo. I just don't see the point in holding out when you've already soft claimed. Either it's true and he can remove suspicion/not waste the day to get to L1 then claim at last second before deadline, or it's fake and he's lying scum. Either one is possible.

[Tywin Lannister]

Screw it. What's he at? Will vote if not L-1, will hammer if/when he responds and anyone else wants to weigh in.

Edit: Nvm he's L1. Will let everyone post before a hammer, but I'm good with it.

[Tywin Lannister]

Honestly, fuck that xnaj guy. He gets to L2 (you sure you didn't just hammer Fitz? I thought he was L1), doesn't read it at all, and posts ANOTHER prod dodge post. I'm gonna hammer him if that's everyone that's spoken. Sly is all that's left.

[Tywin Lannister]

Ok. Will hammer later today I guess. I'm in-between moving apartments and moving company is about to show up, so that gives time for sly or whoever to say whatever they need. I doubt xnad will be saying anything based on his 17 prod dodges.

[Tywin Lannister]

@Tywin:

I would also appreciate your input on whom I should shoot. I'll be using my delayed shot tonight, so that gives them another day to be useful if we're mistaking and they're town.

I don't really wanna say anything about it, because I don't want a Redirector or whatever messing it up. It's better if scum don't know, but I suggest anyone in your lynch pool. I think it's just a process of elimination right now, so narrowing down the scum pool is good for town regardless. There are enough basically confirmed townies right now where I don't see a problem choosing whoever you want.

If I'm being biased and OMGUSy about it though, id be shooting Sly if I were the vigi. I don't like the exchange that happened yesterday, and he pretty much disappeared when questioned further about it. He may be a town PR though, so idk if it's a good call or not. He also could be pulling a better version of James and was just crumbing a PR in case he needed it. No idea. Aside from that, Vifam not being lynched or voted by scum means he's either scum or a future mislynch, and fuzzy rubs me the wrong way too. Other than that, I'd probably shoot them before the others, although Fitz could be scum based on the lack of NK when jailkept.

Honestly, it's up to you. Idc either way.

[Tywin Lannister]

I mean, if you jail the Redirector or the scum kill, then you're basically roleblocking them and the game is solved immediately. May be worth the risk. If Redirected, the worse case is scum send you to their buddy and Almost's shot doesn't go through on scum. Regardless, it solves the game without an NK right? Or am I missing something?

[Tywin Lannister]

I did not vote XnadrojX, yesterday so I should be suspect IMHO.......My james vote was kinda weak,
Tywin did not vote James or XnadrojX,, This might be bad read but it also could be scum protecting scum.

Comm- Did you investigate anyone last night and who,
Its been 4 days have you been able to come up with anything useful with your investigation

On the redirector how do we know we have one...... Yes it was claimed but how do we know that it was a lie. I am looking for something solid to prove we likely have a redirector

we know atleast 1 scum was on the Vilfam wagon.

more later.............

Actually, I declared intention to hammer both of them, but some randos like Vifam jumped in to do it first without waiting for a claim or for everyone to post. If you've ever actually read the thread whatsoever, you'd know this.

What strikes me as funny is that the people that jumped to hammer without waiting for a claim and doing it before I could have been Nero and now Vifam. Nero flipped scum and wanted the town cred. My thoughts are that Vifam is also scum and wanted the town cred.

VOTE: vifam

Otherwise, fuzzy is scum and his blatant misrepresentations of how the game has unfolded and what has been said is pretty terrible. Still, he could just be new town. Idk. What I do know is that there's two people who ninja hammered scum without waiting for a claim after I gave intention to hammer. These players didn't care and voted ASAP to get on the already for sure wagon.

Since Nero flipped scum, my bet is that Vifam will too. Fuzzy did defend xnad and didn't want him lynched, but that seems more townie than Vifam seemingly already knowing alignments and never being voted by scum. Ever.

[Tywin Lannister]

Wonder why XnadrojX stayed off Vifam wagon D4. Could have put Vifam at L-1 instead of making a useless vote on Elena.

I.e. vote Vifam.

Scum stayed off Vifam D1 too. And D2. And D3.

[Tywin Lannister]

I think Vifam is L1 or close to it. Vifam claim?

[Tywin Lannister]

Yep he's L1. Nobody hammer yet.

[Tywin Lannister]

So, I've done a reread during the night phase, and I'm sorry we lynched Vifam (but still, your style WILL get you lynched more often as you fall into apathy).

Anyhow, Sly Sly is almost confirmed Town now, and 1239 makes Fuzzy Town too. Here's the reworked readlist of mine:

Unlynchable: SlySly,
Almost Unlynchable: Not Chara, Havingfitz, TheFuzzyLogic99,
Not Today Lynch Pool:
Compromise Lynch Pool: Elena Fisher,
Primary Lynch Pool: Tywin Lannister,

VOTE: Tywin

This is the game winning lynch for us, guys.

P.S. My shot on Tywin should have resolved today, so it can't be Ram's JK that kept him alive either.

Shot on me? I'm not BP. I'm a VT. This makes no sense. You're lying here and it's obvious (to me at least). You couldn't have shot me, or id be dead already. Why are you blatantly lying right now? You can't be scum based on Comms investigation, but you also couldn't have shot me or I'd obv not survive. Otherwise, we have a doc that protected me. If you shot at me two nights ago and it should've resolved today, then yes, Ram couldn't have JK'd me and saved me from it.

So now I'm really curious. What are you lying for? That was a little tidbit you added at the end that clearly isn't true, and if it was, it would be the first thing you'd say, not the last. Again, I'm not BP, and I'm also not a Redirecter, so Idk what you're playing here, but it's obviously a lie. We both know that. Please explain yourself.

[Tywin Lannister]

Not sure why sly is confirmed town either. That's another tidbit that doesn't make any sense.

[Tywin Lannister]

@fitz: my guess is NC is town based on what Comm said, not Almost. Comm said he was 100% town, which leads me to believe he investigated NC and got a town result. He never specifically said, but that's what I took from it.

[Tywin Lannister]

This is just weird. Almost claims he shot me, but that isn't true. He claims sly is confirmed town, but that isn't true.

Wtf?

[Tywin Lannister]

Comm said he was 100% town, which leads me to believe he investigated NC and got a town result. He never specifically said, but that's what I took from it.

Why on earth would that go unstated?

The replace out is not AI because I've seen RC do that as scum.

The bussing needs a closer re-look IMO.

P.edit....Comm is confirmed Role cop and got a vig result. A50 is only one claiming vig. A50 = locktown.

I never said he wasn't, except that he claims to have shot me the other night, but I'd be dead if that's the case. I'm clearly not, so he's lying for some reason. He's also claiming that sly is confirmed town, except there's no reason at all to believe that. As for NC, I'm going with what Comm specifically said. He clearly had to have investigated someone. He said two people are confirmed town: Almost and NC. He didn't say anything else except that he assumed me and you were both town as well. If he investigated someone else, he'd have probably said that, right? Idk why he didn't specifically say it, but fuzzy quick hammered before anyone else could speak.

I'll be lynched today whenever fuzzy logs in, but I think there's something screwy going on that needs to be looked at after I'm gone. If Almost did actually shoot me, then I'd be dead, so something else is happening that is confusing me. Otherwise, he's just lying. It's kinda simple stuff. If not, then I was JK'd by Ram and it still resolved, in which case the fact that there was still an NK should've shown that I can't be scum anyways.

So yeah, I'm fucking confused right now and not sure what's going on. I'll definitely be looking at it post-game to see what the fuck happened here.

Pedit: then why would it resolve tonight? That makes no sense. It would resolve tomorrow, in which case lynching me today is a waste anyways. I guess it doesn't matter either way then, but it makes today an effective NL situation.

[Tywin Lannister]

If it resolved tonight, then why would you waste the day lynching me? I'll flip town regardless, and then you'll probably be dead assuming you're town too. You saying sly is confirmed town may even help him win, and you ignoring Comm's words that NC is confirmed town is just bad play, unless you mixed the two up.

Comm said he thought Sly/fuzzy were the last scum. So let's ignore that an call them confirmed instead? Really? Don't lose an already-won game by ignoring everything that's happened before. Just saying for the future. Id rather not lose the game after I'm gone due to people ignoring what the flipped role cop said.

[Tywin Lannister]

except that he claims to have shot me the other night,

Why did/do you assume it was the other night and not last night? A delayed shot from the other night OR a direct shot from last night should've had the same effect (i.e. resolved today), so why did you automatically assume it was the other night?

You also need to explain not ever ONCE voting any of the 3 flipped scumsters. You gave "intent" to hammer the two who got lynched, but when it came to Vifam you didn't have a problem joining the wagon earlier (to ensure you weren't put in the same position and then have to state intent and wait, I presume).

Anyway, THAT was the reason why I shot you. I even said that I did a reread OVERNIGHT, so I still don't know why you automatically assumed it was "the other night".

P-edit: I used a TIMESHIFTED shot, not a normal one. It should have resolved already.

P-edit 2: Did I say Fuzzy was confirmed?? Show me where I said that, please.

Because you said 'Tywin didn't die and I shot him' which mean you were alluding to me being BP or something. The way you worded it was that it makes me scum somehow, and you stated that it should've resolved already. If you're timeshift immune, then that's not something I know about. Regardless, lynching me today while shooting me tonight is a waste. I'm not sure why you'd do that or even mention it unless you had alterior motives to show WHY there have been only 1 NK for multiple nights now. Which IMO, if Comm didn't confirm you (by checking fitz), then you'd be the most likely scum candidate left. If you do flip scum post-game, I'm really going to question what happened there, and if it's some brilliant Mafia Framer play, I'll be impressed. You're not getting lynching regardless, although if you're still alive by Lylo, it should be obvious you're not town. I'll be long dead by then anyways though, so it's not my problem.

Pedit: if you used a timeshifted shot, then I should be dead. It also was my understanding based on what ssbm said earlier in the game before you morons lynched him was that only scum have timeshift, and they apparently used it already. Since it didn't resolve on me (cuz I'm still alive), it means you're lying. Just admit it. I'll be dead regardless long before you are, because comm basically confirmed you somehow. Since he investigated fitz though, it either means there has to be a Redirector or you're lying scum and am a Mafia framer. It technically could happen, but it's not going to matter. Town will lose before scum you would ever get lynched. I just know that you're lying about the shot, because there's no reason for me not to have died then. Since you obviously lied about that, you clearly must be lying about a lot of things. You lied about being a vigi/not being a vigi days ago, and then you made up multiple modifiers that can't all be true or you'd be the most OP role ever invented. So you lied about that. You now lie about shooting me, so maybe you've been lying about being a vigi too. It's possible you're just a Mafia framer that made a great gambit. I really don't know, but you're a liar regardless.

As for the rest, I don't need to explain anything. I gave intent to hammer two scum and I clearly was the FIRST person to ever bring up xnad. Nobody else ever did even once in the game until me. I effectively got him lynched yesterday. You must not have read a single thing in the game for you to come to the conclusions you have.

So you can explain everything to town after I'm gone, because you have a lot of lies that need questioning. I'm questioning your shot that is a lie, but you make up new things on the fly that contradict what you already said previously. Also, only scum apparently have timeshift, so you may have slipped.

[Tywin Lannister]

You ARE missing the fact I said it was a TIMSHIFTED shot so it should have resolved on the same night not the next one. Can you explain that?

Maybe the mod changed things from previous Timeshift Mafia games, but it's my understanding that only scum have that. I still think you're lying or id be dead already.

[Tywin Lannister]

And I'm still waiting to see why he assumed my shot was normal from the night before and not timeshifted from last night.

I'm wondering how you expect me to know that or even assume it based on what was said about previous games, not to mention that I'm not dead and not BP, so you're clearly missing the obvious points on purpose here. Why would I assume it's timeshift when I didn't die? Also, why would I assume you are a vigi without x-shots, strongman, Redirector immune, timeshift immune, and any more modifiers you want to add?

If those things are all true, then you're role is so OP it's game breaking and the game is a bastard. Since I doubt that's the case, it means you're lying about at least one thing. My guess is it's either about the shot or you're scum, maybe a Mafia framer. Idk what other roles could have given the result from comm after he investigated fitz, but I'm sure there are a few more. Back when the original confusion happened, YOU were the one who kept insisting over and over and over that there HAS to be a Redirector. Not a bus driver. Not any other role. Redirector. You said it over and over and over again until everyone just went with it, but now that your actions show some really confusing shit, not to mention that you've lied pretty consistently, I think town need revisit the whole thing once I'm gone. You're suspect as fuck and would be the top scum candidate if not for comm getting a vigi result on Fitz. Also, seems like you shoot quite a lot but there's only 1 NK ever. Funny how your recent 'shot' is stated to explain that away, although since only scum have timeshift immunity according to past Timeshify games, it may be a scum or third party slip. Maybe you're an SK. I'm doubting that you're town at this point, although my opinion won't matter soon regardless.

The very weird thing is that you want to lynch me when you've already supposedly shot me. Now that I brought it up, you claim it was timeshift. That's gotta be a lie or you are scum who just slipped. You really want me gone and are pushing hard for a mislynch right before I'd die due to your NK anyway? That makes absolutely no logical sense, which is why I think you brought up 'timeshifted shot' after the fact. It's just another lie to add to the 100 other modifiers you claim to have. Funny how that works.

[Tywin Lannister]

Almost is sure freaking out right now when he supposedly already shot me. You'd think he'd move on to someone else if he knew I'd die tonight anyways. He's fucked when I flip town though. Guy got himself caught with his lies.

[Tywin Lannister]

One more thing:

@Almost: please explain why you said SlySly is confirmed town? That's clearly not the case, and it's another blatant lie. There's absolutely no way that you'd know that whatsoever even if it were true unless you are scum. Please explain. Comm said that Not Chara and you are confirmed town, NC based on no info given but assuming he investigated the slot, and you because he investigated fitz and you 'claimed' vigi convienently after nobody else did. So technically, you're not confirmed, but that's not what I'm asking about. I'm asking why you said Sly is confirmed town. Only an actual cop with an investigation or scum would know that. Sly never claimed, and he certainly wasn't confirmed by Comm. So you have some explaining to do with this one bud.

[Tywin Lannister]

You ARE missing the fact I said it was a TIMSHIFTED shot so it should have resolved on the same night not the next one. Can you explain that?

Maybe the mod changed things from previous Timeshift Mafia games, but it's my understanding that only scum have that. I still think you're lying or id be dead already.

3rd or 4th time you bring this up, which makes me wonder: How come you had no problem with my timeshifted shot that hit NERO and resolved ON THE SAME NIGHT my normal shot resolved on TTTT. And I'm the one who didn't read?? *Smirk*

This makes absolutely no sense. You really have issues with common sense and the ability to be intuitive with what goes on. How would I have any idea if you used a timeshift shot on Nero or not? Do you think I see all your night actions? Are you confusing me with the mod? Are you just insane? What's the deal with you?

[Tywin Lannister]

Also, seems like you shoot quite a lot but there's only 1 NK ever.

Really? Then I must be hallucinating. I was under the impression Nero, TTTT and PV all dies the same night!

Was that not the night scum used their timeshift? How many do you apparently have? Again, according to ssbm, scum had 1 timeshift shot in every other game, and only scum had it. So now you are timeshift immune, multi-shot vigi that is a strongman, can't be redirected, and.. Again, any more modifiers you wanna add? Seems like you're more powerful than scum based on the flips. Either there are two left, you're lying about multiple things (once a liar, always a liar, and in most games, the motto is lynch all liars), scum have some crazy roles to counter yours, or your role is so OP that it's game breaking and the game shouldn't have passed review. Again, one of these things seeks the most likely, and that is that you're just a liar.

Also, I didn't die when you claimed to have timeshift shot me. So again, you're a liar. Maybe Mafia have a poisoner or something that makes 3 people die on N3 and only one person on literally every other night since then. Funny how that works, and funny how I didn't die when you claimed to have shot me. Again, you're a liar. A bad one.

[Tywin Lannister]

Elena
I am not voting you at the moment,,,,or plan to

Tywin
We are not voting Almost he is conf town by the bullet to Nero unless you can prove otherwise......

The only way I could prove otherwise is assuming other roles beyond a Redirector (also an assumption). Comm investigated Fits and got vigi. We all assume there's a Redirector (although why no Busdriver or framer or literally dozens of other roles? Because Almpst wouldn't stop saying Redirector as if he knew already) due to it, but if there's not, then the result of vigi from comm investigating fitz, and Almost's lies combined with only 1 night having multiple NKs, his obvious lies about his modifiers due to the power being game breaking of true, his supposed timeshift shot on me that A) didn't kill me and B) shouldn't have a timeshift shot unless he's scum regardless, and basically the way James played means scum had to gamble hard on something to win. It's not beyond my assumption that Almost would claim vigi after a Mafia framer result, or possibly Nero had some type of role that killed him or got him killed during an NK. It would require me to look up all the possible roles to figure it out though.

I'm not voting Almost, because it doesn't matter. If he's scum, town will lose. Also, apparently I should be dead already, so I'm not really sure wtf is going on. What I do know is that IF almost shot me, he wouldn't need to lynch me today. I also know that I'm the last person alive that was generally looked at as town by all those NK'd (Ram/Comm/etc) and so it's fitting for Almost to buddy up with Sly now to push my lynch. Sly is NOT confirmed town regardless of what almost said, but I promise he said it to get Sly on his side after I'm dead.

Again, I'm not bulletproof or anything like it, so Almost is lying. There's no other explanation unless a doc protected me, and I personally think he is scum that is covering his tracks about WHY his vigi shots never seem to kill anyone at all and why only ONE night actually had multiple NKs. I think he's lying. Again, you'll see regardless after my flip. He's lying about being a vigi. I almost guarantee it. Otherwise, he's lying about being more than a 1-shot, and so his shot on me last night wasn't real.

That or he's literally just crazy.

[Tywin Lannister]

You've said you couldn't be redirected, but how would you know that? The mod would literally have to tell you. That's not a legitimate modifier, and if there isn't a Redirector at all, it again means you're lying.

You don't have to talk to me, because you don't answer anything I ask, the questions and inconsistencies I bring up are ignored, and you just say 'lol scum lol look at him type such such lol' as your rebuttals. You're the classic scum archetype at this point, but my death won't matter. The point is that you're now shaded to hell and aren't to be trusted anymore, and that's all I can hope to do.

Again, Almost is not confirmed town. Comm investigated fitz, not Almost, and many other roles can make cop results change. Far more than a Redirector, and what an AMAZING coincidence that Almost can't be redirected!!! How great! Every modifier he has somehow proves he's scum's worst nightmare and hes so OP guys lemme tell ya, and those dirty scum rue the day they ever went up against a guy with 1000 different modifiers in the most powerful PR ever invented that just so happens to counter absolutely everything imaginable and those poor scum had a goon, a 2-shot ninja that went obsolete as soon as watcher got NK'd, and an encriptor, which gives day talk to scum. Funny, most games automatically give scum day talk, so essentially scum flipped two goons and a ninja. Super OP! I bet that requires the most powerful town vigi role ever invented, but also a watcher, a rolecop, a jailkeeper, any more? That's a ton of town PRs for what scum flipped, but hey, we have a super powered vigi too! Sweet! /sarcasm

Obviously, I don't believe town has a vigi anymore, and since there was literally only one night where multiple people died, I think almost is scum.

[Tywin Lannister]

Hammer the scum!

Sadly, you or Almost aren't L1. Maybe tomorrow one of you will go, cuz I'm betting neither will be NK'd. Odd how a vigi this powerful is still alive.