Umlaut's Micro Normal

[mykonian]

I think there was some movement to put in the opening topic whether there was daytalk. Might make it more clear if you state that people have nighttalk only unless there's some ability in play.

The game would be normal as is. The role pm's are fine. The game as is isn't balanced. Scum gets way too many toys, to the point that if you made them two goons I still think town has worse than average chances of winning the game. The watcher is potent, the bulletproof isn't.

[mykonian]

I don't think 1 shots help enough here given the easiest way for scum to win only takes 2 nights. I don't think you can cheat the town roles (which also face having to claim on an impending lynch, so won't last the whole game) by taking away ~half their power just like that.

And sorry CFJ, I didn't want to claim a rule where there wasn't one Wasn't sure.

[mykonian]

eh, swing in a micro. The lynches are still more swing than the roles here.

I looked through those newbie stats, JK alone does surprisingly well, comparable to a cop alone. Not quite 50% for town, but that's something. It does plummet with a real scum power though. Now the watcher is no cop, he has a target less to get a guilty on, doesn't get innocents. Say he's half a cop. A cop alone makes up about 15-20%. There's no obvious synergy of the watcher with the JK that I can think of, so say a rough estimate of the setup JK/Watcher vs Goons is ~55% for town. That's fair game for me, for ages we passed setups which were apparently 45% for town, but leaves room to give scum something to play with if you'd like. If you give scum a full role, I think you'll just make your work undone. Given there are only so 3 nights to play with, that'd mean a one shot ninja or strongman, if we stick with that idea.

I tend to dislike the ninja, but in this case it can't create a false inno which is about the best case scenario for it. The strongman is fine for claim situations, might be quite potent. Your preference for me. Or you leave it be.

[mykonian]

uhm, I'm not so sure about this.

Making the watcher one shot means it's all or nothing, now if swing would somehow be the problem, that's hardly a solution. And the one full PR town gets is undermined by a scum PR. This feels very clearly scumsided.

[mykonian]

I think that's where mykonian's unease comes from.

Sorta.

It's much easier to get use out of the strongman than the 1 shot watcher. While both have to guess where the opponent will target, the watcher doesn't know if he'll last the night, is more pressed to actually get their shot in. Further, the JK's power is in situations where you took out one scum. Here in half of the cases, the remaining scum still gets to choose who to shoot despite the JK claiming who they are going to block (the strategy to create inno's), potentially actually giving away the game where town think they have it on lock as a false inno is created.

It's the same thing you run in to every time, scum PR's are so much easier to wield, are so much easier to create impact with. JK alone is balanced, but still slightly scumsided. JK/1shot watcher vs 1 shot strongman has to be way worse in my opinion.

I think if you want to play with the strongman, town can't rely on the JK the way you'd want to, and they should get a full watcher. If you want to play with the 1 shot watcher, the strongman just is too scary for me. The second should be in the 50/55 range, a one shot role and a claim (but no longer in an open game) is going to be within 5% winrate gain. The first setup can't be far off.

[mykonian]

I think the first is more to my liking, and closer to what we've talked about so far. I'd be fine with that.

[mykonian]

If it's slightly townsided as mykonian suggested

It'd be between 50 and 55%, well within reasonable bounds.

I'd be quite happy with that setup. Should we go on to role PM's and get this show on the road?

[mykonian]

/happy!

Good luck Umlaut!