XnadrojX's Mini Normal Review the Second

[Nexus]

All right got everything ready.

First Post

A long, long, web in here, in a URL deep, deep, internal.
There was a website, called MAFIASCUM.
In this magical land, we played the amazing game known as mafia with people we've never met.
And that's what we're doing right now.

Welcome to Mini Normal ____ - In The Web

Spoiler: Players

Spoiler: Alive ?/13

Spoiler: Dead ?/13

Player Name: Player Role, Player Alignment

Second Post

The All Important Rules

General:

1. All site-wide rules apply here.
2. You may not quote your Role PM or any other moderator provided information directly, paraphrasing or copy/pasting is OK so long there is NO QUOTE
3. All votes must be in the format "VOTE: Nexus" and all requests to the moderator must be in the format "

@MOD: (request)

". These may NOT be hidden in any way.
4. Although this is a game about being an asshole, please be asshole to a certain extent. Do not go too far with your words or I may warn you or even replace you without notice. If you are unsure of what is OK, please PM me first (I'm generally quite tolerant).
5. Please inform of any mistakes I make
6. Do NOT use any form of sneaky tactics including but not limited to encrypted text, hidden messages, hard to see colours and small text
7. Do not attempt to game the system or pretend to break the rules in any way. If you do, sufficient punishment will be dealt.
8. I reserve the right to edit, add, or remove the rules to fix any loopholes.

Game Related:

1. My life sucks so I occasionally may not be able to provide a votecount. if this happens, I am incredibly sorry.
2. Days last 14 days, Night 48 hours, extensions may be granted on a case-by-case basis (e.g site crash, other major issue)
3. If you do not post within 48 hours, I will prod you.
4. If you are prodded, respond within 48 hours or I will replace you.
5. If i find a replacement at Night, the night will be extended by 24 hours to accomadate the new replacement.
6. You may make a "BAH!" post ONLY IF: You were not present during the twilight, and your post may only contain the letters "b", "a", and "h" along with an optional "!"
7. If you will be unable to be active in thread for over 48 hours, please make a V/LA post in bold. As long as the time is reasonable, you will be exempt from prods.
8. If someone receives 3 prods, I will forcefully replace them.
9. I reserve the right to edit, add, or remove these rules as well.

Sample PM:

Welcome to Mini Normal _____, you are a

Vanilla Townie

You have a power in your voice, and since you live in a democracy, you have power in your vote.
You win when all threats to your faction are eliminated, who are defined as having this win condtion.
Please confirm to me by replying with your role name (Vanilla) and faction (Town).
The game thread is

here

This is my Mod Colour, all edits and VCs will be in this colour (#00FF00). DO NOT USE IT. (use #00FF40 for VCAing)

VC Template

[ area=Official VC (day number).(VC number) ]

(Largest Wagon Name) is at L-X

Not Voting (13) [Player Name, Player Name ....... , Player Name, Player Name]

Accurate to Post #[ post ]number[ /post ]

With X Alive, it's (X/2)+1 to lynch.

[ /area ]
[ area=Mod Notes ]

Mod Notes go here(V/LAs, etc.)

[ /area ]

and my setup is here:

The Setup

Town

2-Shot Friendly Neighbour

Spoiler: Role PM

Welcome to Mini Normal _____, you are a

2-shot Friendly Neighbour

You have a power in your voice, and since you live in a democracy, you have power in your vote as well.
Not only that, you are also a very friendly person, so during the night, you may head out to town to inform someone of your faction. You only have enough confidence to talk to two people however, so choose wisely.
You win when all threats to your faction are eliminated, who are defined as having this win condtion.
Please confirm to me by replying with your role name (2-Shot Friendly Neighbour) and faction (Town).

1-Shot Friendly Neighbour

Spoiler: Role PM

Welcome to Mini Normal _____, you are a

1-shot Friendly Neighbour

You have a power in your voice, and since you live in a democracy, you have power in your vote as well.
Not only that, you are also a very friendly person, so during the night, you may head out to town to inform someone of your faction. You only have enough confidence to talk to one person however, so choose wisely.
You win when all threats to your faction are eliminated, who are defined as having this win condtion.
Please confirm to me by replying with your role name (1-Shot Friendly Neighbour) and faction (Town).

Odd-Night Cop

Spoiler: Role PM

Welcome to Mini Normal _____, you are a

Odd Night Cop

You have a power in your voice, and since you live in a democracy, you have power in your vote as well.
Not only that, you are also a very alert person, so during the night, you may look out of your window and spy on one person's door to look at what activity goes on there so you can determine their alignment. However, you are incredibly superstitious, and you only believe you should inspect on odd-numbered nights.
You win when all threats to your faction are eliminated, who are defined as having this win condtion.
Please confirm to me by replying with your role name (Odd-Night Cop) and faction (Town).

Foreign Psychic

Spoiler: Role PM

Welcome to Mini Normal _____, you are a

Foreign Psychic

You have a power in your voice, and since you live in a democracy, you have power in your vote as well.
You are trained in the arts of the psychic, which allows you to view events from a disembodied perspective. This allows you to have a second which you cast through PMing me. This vote will NOT be registered in the VC but it will be counted. The second vote may be on two different people, or all on one person. With your great power, you may unleash it all at once during the night, and gain ALL results I have sent. You do not who sent them or who received them, but you will know whatever results were obtained this night. However, this burns all your strength, and you may not have a second vote afterwards. Due to the fact you come from a foreign land, people have some doubts about you, and you will inspect unfavourably to cops. This is not explicitly Normal, and you will flip with this Role PM.
You win when all threats to your faction are eliminated, who are defined as having this win condtion.
Please confirm to me by replying with your role name (Foreign Psychic) and faction (Town).

VT x 5

Mafia

Mafia Traitor

Spoiler: Role PM

Welcome to Mini Normal _____, you are a

Mafia Traitor

You have a power in your voice, and since you live in a democracy, you have power in your vote as well.
You are a old cast-away from the group of Mafia. You now wish to return but due to the chaos, you do not know who the Mafia is. However, the Mafia have been notified of your return. They do not know who you are as you sent the return letter anoynomously.
You win when the Town have been eliminated, and your faction controls the remaining votes, who are defined as having this win condition.
Please confirm to me by replying with your role name (Traitor) and faction (Mafia).

Mafia JailKeeper

Spoiler: Role PM

Welcome to Mini Normal _____, you are a

Mafia JailKeeper

You have a power in your voice, and since you live in a democracy, you have power in your vote as well.
You are an ex-JailKeeper which means you have knowledge of the art of imprisonment. You were lured to the dark side by promises of power and cookies. You hold the keys to your faction's dungeon, and each Night, you may lock up a citizen to prevent them from being killed, but also prevents them from carrying out any action they may have.
You win when the Town have been eliminated, and your faction controls the remaining votes, who are defined as having this win condition.
Your faction has a factional kill at night which anyone of the Mafia faction may utilise to kill. You may kill and JailKeep at the same time. You are informed that there is a Mafia Traitor out there on your side.
Your Mafia Private Topic is

here

, along with your partners ____ and ____.
Please confirm to me by replying with your role name (Jailkeeper) and faction (Mafia).

Mafia One-Shot Ninja

Spoiler: Role PM

Welcome to Mini Normal _____, you are a

Mafia One-Shot Ninja

You have a power in your voice, and since you live in a democracy, you have power in your vote as well.
You are a trained disciple of a master of stealth. You were lured to the dark side by promises of power and cookies. You know the techniques of stealth, which means that actions you perform will not be seen by anyone but yourself. However, you only have the confidence to perform it once, which means you may only use your ninja techniques once
You win when the Town have been eliminated, and your faction controls the remaining votes, who are defined as having this win condition.
Your faction has a factional kill at night which anyone of the Mafia faction may utilise to kill. You are informed that there is a Mafia Traitor out there on your side.
Your Mafia Private Topic is

here

, along with your partners ____ and ____
Please confirm to me by replying with your role name (One-Shot Ninja) and faction (Mafia).

Mafia Goon

Spoiler: Role PM

Welcome to Mini Normal _____, you are a

Mafia Goon

You have a power in your voice, and since you live in a democracy, you have power in your vote as well.
You were a regular citizen, but the Mafia have lured you to the dark side with promises of power and cookies.
You win when the Town have been eliminated, and your faction controls the remaining votes, who are defined as having this win condition.
Your faction has a factional kill at night which anyone of the Mafia faction may utilise to kill. You may kill and JailKeep at the same time. You are informed that there is a Mafia Traitor out there on your side.
Your Mafia Private Topic is

here

, along with your partners ___ and ___.
Please confirm to me by replying with your role name (Vanilla) and faction (Mafia).

Results

Spoiler: Friendly Neighbour

You were visited by a very friendly looking ___ last night, who informed you that they were town.

Spoiler: Cop

Your investigation revealed ___ to be Mafia/Not Mafia. {inspect succesful}
Your investiagtion did not return any results. {inspect was blocked}

...have a second vote which you cast ...

EBWOP

I have one Mini of modding experience (Mini Normal 1862)
I currently have no modding commitments and I am currently playing in one Mini Theme, one Large Theme, and one Micro.
I currently do not have a backup moderator.
I do not want the setup distribution to be revealed.

[mhsmith0]

9/4 with

Mafia
goon
traitor
1-shot ninja
jailkeeper

Town
Miller Doublevoter One-time PM results copier
Odd night cop
1-shot friendly neighbor
2-shot friendly neighbor
5 VTs

Probably scumsided, but mainly just weird in the mix of town/scum, and probably a LOT of swing given the cop, the multiple friendly neighbors, and the seemingly superpowered miller role.

Why 9/4 and not 10/3 as is the norm in these games?

[mykonian]

the traitor is closer to a full goon than a nonentity. 3:10 is already super rough on town. Town has actually very little firepower and scum get 1.5 roles.

This is miles away from where it'd need to be to make it somewhat fair.

I haven't looked closely if the psychic is normal enough yet.

[mhsmith0]

Well 10/3 is basically the standard alignment distribution, then it's a matter of finding the right role balance. 9/4 requires a different role balance, and I would actually suggest the the four town roles are substantially stronger than your typical set, although the overlap between the cop and the multiple friendly neighbors seems super prone to swing.

[mykonian]

you and I both know that although 3:10 is standard, you need to work it to make it balanced, actually throw a lot at town (as per hoopla's numbers) and give scum nothing to make it fair. That's because you start out little over 20% win chance for town. 9:4 more than halves that. I seriously doubt you can somehow make up 40% winrate with 2 mislynches for 4 scum while keeping the game normal and not broken in some way.

Like, make the Mafia JK a VT, take out the "gain all results" power the psychic got, because the more I think about it the more that's a themed ability at heart, and you are going places with a weakened scumteam. A doublevoter and an odd night cop is still not a strong town, for sure it doesn't feel townsided even then, but that should be playable?

At that point though, it's not even the same setup anymore. I think Jordan wanted to play with the psychic, I don't think that's a good idea. And then I took out the strongest mafia PR to give town another VT. It's a question if Jordan wants this, or if it's better to start from scratch then anyway.

[XnadrojX]

I wanted to play with the idea of someone getting someone else's results, I think it's balancable with a bit of power shifting. I overestimated the power of getting someone's results though, I didn't consider the overlapping power. Possibly replace one of the friendly neighbours with a inspecting role? I can probably cut the mafia jailkeeper and/or traitor.
I think replacing Mafia JailKeppeer with another VT and replacing the omeshot friendly neighbour with a 1-shot rolecop(?) Should balance it better? Or maybe if it's hopeless I can probably remake the whole setup

[XnadrojX]

I've checked and it should fit under normal boundaries, "inspecting" should fit the bill there

[mykonian]

Nah, it goes through a different route than inspecting in normals. Inspections target a certain player, then you get information on that player based on a known set of rules (whether they moved, whether they had a gun, etc). Further, normals are characterised by straightforward night actions, which support the game, while this is dependent and does a lot of different things and makes the game about the role (tells you what information roles are in the game, a bunch of results, no names to go with them?). It fits much better in a role madness game than here.

[XnadrojX]

Oh, I see.
I can probably remake the setup and change a few things, like cutting the mass result obtaining and balancing a few more things.
New setup coming in a moment.

[XnadrojX]

Changes:
Psychic having it's mass result obtaining removed (now a miller doublevoter)
Mafia JailKeeper changed to a Vanilla Townie
Mafia Traitor changed to Mafia Traitor GodFather
1-Shot Friendly Neighbour changed to Even-Night Cop

[mykonian]

I think we cut godfather entirely from normals. Could you make him ascetic instead?

[XnadrojX]

Really? Must have been some time since I last checked. Change to an Ascetic instead, and I think it looks balanced?

[mykonian]

it got removed before you joined, about a year ago

anyway, what are we at then:

1 goons
1 1 shot ninja
1 ascetic traitor

vs

miller doublevoter
odd night cop
even night cop
2 shot friendly neighbour
VT's

Yeah I'm happy with that. There aren't too many confirmed players in all likelyhood, town has some power, but it's diffuse. This seems nicely playable.

[mhsmith0]

Incidentally, if you want a godfather traitor, you could just make the cops gunsmiths, and it has the same effect since traitors don't have guns.

[XnadrojX]

I think I'll keep them as cops, it makes the Miller Doublevoter have more of a ppint. Also I've been using MafiaScum's definition of Normal before I joined MafiaScum, on another site, and I've pretty much not really seriously looked through the list since then.

[XnadrojX]

The Setup

Town

2-Shot Friendly Neighbour

Spoiler: Role PM

Welcome to Mini Normal _____, you are a

2-shot Friendly Neighbour

You have a power in your voice, and since you live in a democracy, you have power in your vote as well.
Not only that, you are also a very friendly person, so during the night, you may head out to town to inform someone of your faction. You only have enough confidence to talk to two people however, so choose wisely.
You win when all threats to your faction are eliminated, who are defined as having this win condtion.
Please confirm to me by replying with your role name (2-Shot Friendly Neighbour) and faction (Town).

Odd-Night Cop

Spoiler: Role PM

Welcome to Mini Normal _____, you are a

Odd Night Cop

You have a power in your voice, and since you live in a democracy, you have power in your vote as well.
Not only that, you are also a very alert person, so during the night, you may look out of your window and spy on one person's door to look at what activity goes on there so you can determine their alignment. However, you are incredibly superstitious, and you only believe you should inspect on odd-numbered nights.
You win when all threats to your faction are eliminated, who are defined as having this win condtion.
Please confirm to me by replying with your role name (Odd-Night Cop) and faction (Town).

Even-Night Cop

Spoiler: Role PM

Welcome to Mini Normal _____, you are a

Odd Night Cop

You have a power in your voice, and since you live in a democracy, you have power in your vote as well.
Not only that, you are also a very alert person, so during the night, you may look out of your window and spy on one person's door to look at what activity goes on there so you can determine their alignment. However, you are incredibly superstitious, and you only believe you should inspect on even-mbered nights.
You win when all threats to your faction are eliminated, who are defined as having this win condtion.
Please confirm to me by replying with your role name (Odd-Night Cop) and faction (Town).

Foreign Psychic

Spoiler: Role PM

Welcome to Mini Normal _____, you are a

Foreign Psychic

You have a power in your voice, and since you live in a democracy, you have power in your vote as well.
You are trained in the arts of the psychic, which allows you to view events from a disembodied perspective. This allows you to have a second which you cast through PMing me. This vote will NOT be registered in the VC but it will be counted. The second vote may be on two different people, or all on one person. Due to the fact you come from a foreign land, people have some doubts about you, and you will inspect unfavourably to cops. This is not explicitly Normal, and you will flip with this Role PM.
You win when all threats to your faction are eliminated, who are defined as having this win condtion.
Please confirm to me by replying with your role name (Foreign Psychic) and faction (Town).

VT X 6

Mafia

Mafia Traitor Ascetic

Spoiler: Role PM

Welcome to Mini Normal _____, you are a

Mafia Traitor

You have a power in your voice, and since you live in a democracy, you have power in your vote as well.
You are a old cast-away from the group of Mafia. You now wish to return but due to the chaos, you do not know who the Mafia is. However, the Mafia have been notified of your return. They do not know who you are as you sent the return letter anoynomously. You are Ascetic, and cannot be affected by any action other than kills.
You win when the Town have been eliminated, and your faction controls the remaining votes, who are defined as having this win condition.
Please confirm to me by replying with your role name (Ascetic Traitor) and faction (Mafia).

Mafia One-Shot Ninja

Spoiler: Role PM

Welcome to Mini Normal _____, you are a

Mafia One-Shot Ninja

You have a power in your voice, and since you live in a democracy, you have power in your vote as well.
You are a trained disciple of a master of stealth. You were lured to the dark side by promises of power and cookies. You know the techniques of stealth, which means that actions you perform will not be seen by anyone but yourself. However, you only have the confidence to perform it once, which means you may only use your ninja techniques once
You win when the Town have been eliminated, and your faction controls the remaining votes, who are defined as having this win condition.
Your faction has a factional kill at night which anyone of the Mafia faction may utilise to kill. You are informed that there is a Mafia Traitor out there on your side.
Your Mafia Private Topic is

here

, along with your partners ____ and ____
Please confirm to me by replying with your role name (One-Shot Ninja) and faction (Mafia).

Mafia Goon

Spoiler: Role PM

Welcome to Mini Normal _____, you are a

Mafia Goon

You have a power in your voice, and since you live in a democracy, you have power in your vote as well.
You were a regular citizen, but the Mafia have lured you to the dark side with promises of power and cookies.
You win when the Town have been eliminated, and your faction controls the remaining votes, who are defined as having this win condition.
Your faction has a factional kill at night which anyone of the Mafia faction may utilise to kill. You are informed that there is a Mafia Traitor out there on your side.
Your Mafia Private Topic is

here

, along with your partners ___ and ___.
Please confirm to me by replying with your role name (Vanilla) and faction (Mafia).

Results

Spoiler: Friendly Neighbour

You were visited by a very friendly looking ___ last night, who informed you that they were town.

Spoiler: Cop

Your investigation revealed ___ to be Mafia/Not Mafia. {inspect succesful}
Your investiagtion did not return any results. {inspect was blocked}

[XnadrojX]

I'll fix the colouring in the role PMs when I PM then, am phonepost rn

[mykonian]

I'm sorry, I'm going to have to be the grump again.

The role pm's are too verbose as it is. In normals there shouldn't be flavour in them, claims should be about the day play, not how well you describe your role pm. Concretely, the cops could confirm themselves to another via the explanation that's given for the odd/even nightness. But for other roles, this could be a problem as well. It's fine for theme's, but here you want a role name, what it does, what the win condition is.

Further, if it's a miller double voter, I think it's better if it's just called that way. Makes the flip way easier to read, is understandable in claim situations.

[mastina]

mykonian's not gonna be the grouch this time; I am.

The miller double-voter is never getting lynched.
The two cops working together with a friendly neighbor give the town a lot of investigative power, and the one role that the cops fail on is a role that can get lynched because ascetic + miller claims in the game (and half of scum truthfully claim ascetic), with the miller being a double-voter = the traitor gets lynched 100% of the time. Also, because it's a traitor, the mafia are at a severe disadvantage.

I mean to be perfectly honest I think that if you play this game the town only has a 60% chance or so of winning it (rather than the more severe number), but when all is said and done by post-game I'd be calling the game ridiculously townsided because from a theoretical point of view, to me...this is ridiculously townsided. For the scum to win, the town has to make multiple misplays and/or the scum need to be on-point (virtually psychic) with their actions. The friendly neighbor is never getting lynched. (The only way for the friendly neighbor to get lynched is to be lynched before being able to send an action OR very very very poor night action choices--which the scum might still be put at a disadvantage for.) The miller double-voter is never getting lynched. These slots are both slots the mafia need to kill--and by killing those slots, the mafia are NOT killing the cops. And by NOT killing the cops, the cops are allowed to get results.

The only way the town can realistically fuck up is by lynching a cop claim, but a town can easily figure out odd/even-night cops are both in the game as a balance to one another. The town can get: four confirms on D2 (cop, result, double-voter, friendly neighbor), and six confirms by D3. (Other cop, result.) While, yes, there is the obvious chance for overlap (cop investigating friendly neighbor, cop investigating cop, cops investigating the same player), even a town playing sub-optimally has a hard time fucking this setup up. In any remotely-competent town (miller-doublevoter fullclaims, friendly neighbor actions, cop investigates), this is just not a game scum can win.

[XnadrojX]

I can fix the role names and flavour and stuff, but the balance looks a bit hard.

I think I can cut the Friendly Neighbour.
I think I can make the Traitor a full goon and make one of the cops a RoleCop and change it to X-Shot(2-3?) instead.
I could also give the scum a RoleBlocker now that I've broken the balance in the other direction.

1 3S RoleCop
1 Odd-Night Cop
1 Miller DoubleVoter
1 Mafia Ascetic
1 Mafia OS Ninja
1 Mafia RoleBlocker
7 VTs

3:10 with scum having a RoleBlocker and Ascetic with Town having an OS RoleCop and Odd-Night Cop as well as delaying LyLo for a day with the Miler double voter seems balanced to me.
The Cop can force the claim off the DoubleVoter and get his inspect stopped by the Ascetic.
The RoleCop gets one-shot, which most likely hits a vanilla, the Miller DoubleVoter or the other cop, a Roleblocker or Ninja. Pretty much 9/12 times it is useless while 2/12 times it confirms a town, 1/12 it gets a scum.
RoleBlocker gets to fuck with all the investigative power but is otherwise not incredibly powerful with the VTs around.

Town potentially gets max 3 confirms day 2, possibly 2 confirms day 2, and scum has less must-kill targets, with the Miller DoubleVoter needing to be killed whle the cops can be roleblocked. It cuts the issue of the massive number of potential confos, but not too imbalanced when LyLo is further because of the miller doublevoter.

The setup right now

Town

7 VTs

Spoiler: Role PM

Greetings _____, you are a

Vanilla Townie

You have a voice and a vote, and are aligned with the Town, defined as having the following Win Condition:
You win when all Threats to your faction are eliminated.
Please confirm to me by replying with your Alignment and Role

3S RoleCop

Spoiler: Role PM

Greetings _____, you are a

Three-Shot RoleCop

During the night, you may PM me the name of a player. You will get their role, but not their alignment. You can do this 3 times.
You also have a voice and a vote, and are aligned with the Town, defined as having the following Win Condition:
You win when all Threats to your faction are eliminated.
Please confirm to me by replying with your Alignment and Role

Odd Night Cop

Spoiler: Role PM

Greetings _____, you are a

Odd Night Cop

During the night, you may PM me the name of a player. You will whether they are aligned with the Mafia, but not their role. You can do this every odd night.
You also have a voice and a vote, and are aligned with the Town, defined as having the following Win Condition:
You win when all Threats to your faction are eliminated.
Please confirm to me by replying with your Alignment and Role

Miller DoubleVoter

Spoiler: Role PM

Greetings _____, you are a

Miller DoubleVoter

During the day, you may PM me the name of a player, you will place an invisible vote on them. This vote isn't counted in the VC but will be taken into account when calculating Hammer.
You also have a voice and a vote, and are aligned with the Town, defined as having the following Win Condition:
You win when all Threats to your faction are eliminated.
Please confirm to me by replying with your Alignment and Role

Mafia

Mafia Ascetic

Spoiler: Role PM

Greetings ______, you are a

Mafia Ascetic

, along with _______ and _______-
You are Ascetic, and any actions other than kills will fail on you.
You have a voice and a vote, and are aligned with the Mafia, defined as having the following Win Condition:
You win when you are the last faction standing, or nothing can stop you from doing so.
Please confirm to me by replying with your role and alignment.

Mafia RoleBlocker

Spoiler: Role PM

Greetings ______, you are a

Mafia RoleBlocker

, along with _______ and _______-
During the night, you may PM me the name of a player. That player will not have their Night Actions be carried out.
You have a voice and a vote, and are aligned with the Mafia, defined as having the following Win Condition:
You win when you are the last faction standing, or nothing can stop you from doing so.
Please confirm to me by replying with your role and alignment.

Mafia One-Shot Ninja

Spoiler: Role PM

Greetings ______, you are a

Mafia One-Shot Ninja

, along with _______ and _______-
During the night, you may choose to go unseen for your Night Action. Trackers, Watchers and any other variants will not detect you. You may only do this once.
You have a voice and a vote, and are aligned with the Mafia, defined as having the following Win Condition:
You win when you are the last faction standing, or nothing can stop you from doing so.
Please confirm to me by replying with your role and alignment.

I think it looks balanced, but my balancing skills are incredibly bad, so yeah.
I've always wondered how do reviewers get so skilled at telling balance of a game.

[mykonian]

I get mastins issue, I don't think you have to be too drastic about solving it.

Yes the FN and the cop inno's will not be lynched in all likelyhood, that's a threat. The miller, for sure, is on the chopping block, esspecially given his vote isn't made to be public (which makes the role way more ambiguous). I think you are overestimating that claimed roles aren't lynched. There's so many ways that town can and will screw up from your "perfect" top down view of the game. Without perfect information, a claimed even night cop after a claimed odd night cop (if he even claims his odd-night ness) is going to be way more dubious than it looks from here.

I think if you are worried about an amount of inno's taking over the scum, you take away the FN and replace it with something that won't straight up confirm itself, but does bring a little bit of power, because I think you hit the mark with that setup powerwise, Jordan. Say, a commuter, a bp, a follower would work, a neighbouriser could work, stuff like that. Plenty of other options in all likehood. I wouldn't stray too far from what you had there.

[XnadrojX]

I always have this problem of overcompensating. ;;

I think I like the newer setup actually (looks cleaner) so I think I'm going to replace a VT with a 2-Shot Tracker, to give the Ninja an actual point. And change the RoleCop to a Gunsmith, which can catch scum more reliably but can also force a claim from a cop.

7 VT > 6 VT and a 2-Shot Tracker
3-Shot RoleCop > 3-Shot Gunsmith

And I think it looks like the old setup but with more scum power and more town power. Looks a little swingy but otherwise I think it looks like pretty balanced.

[XnadrojX]

Bump? Mastina mykonian smith?

[mhsmith0]

Town
2-shot tracker
3-shot gunsmith
odd night cop
miller doublevoter
6 VTs

Scum
1-shot ninja
ascetic
roleblocker

Since I think the idea is that the tracker is a low utility cherry on top power, I'm somewhat inclined to turn the ninja into a full ninja. That gives scum three full power roles against town's four power roles, two of which (cop and gunsmith) are high utility, one of which is a passive claimable that will never get targeted by either cop role (which is strong for town). I'm slightly concerned about the over-abundance of information roles (three is a pretty strong number), but the tracker is mediocre, especially gated, and scum get to roleblock AND shoot every night, and neither of those actions can be stopped.

[mykonian]

1 3S Gunsmith
1 Odd-Night Cop
1 Miller DoubleVoter
1 2 shot tracker
6 VT's

1 Mafia Ascetic
1 Mafia OS Ninja
1 Mafia RoleBlocker


I don't think scum needs three roles for that town.