Fro99er/Alisae's Large Normal

[RadiantCowbells]

Okay so without talking about balance for the start the setup feels really horrible.
If a traitor scums it the fuck up on day 1 and gets double investigated and cleared they can then basically walk to lylo
I'm not a huge fan of all the potential for false negatives, not a fan of the fact that from mafia's pov the proper move is to hardbus the traitor enabler so they get all their scum as full scum even though it hurts them bad

I'm not sure I'd ever pass this

[RadiantCowbells]

Like I'm okay on principle with the idea of double traitor and I like that but I do not the current mechanic around recruitment and I feel like it's way outside the bounds of what is expected in a normal game.

[RadiantCowbells]

A Traitor is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, as long as it:
is Mafia-aligned
knows the identities of all of the Mafia team
identity is not known by the Mafia team, although they should know a Traitor exists
cannot be recruited to join the rest of the Mafia team, and (unless Bulletproof) is killed if shot

EVen if technically as an enabler that would be 'normal' it's not normal. I will not pass this as is.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you do as one role the traitor enabler and one role your modified trabler I am willing to pass that counting the traitor as greylist.

Currently the town is a joke too, yeah.

[RadiantCowbells]

Sure. It's technically normal. But, no.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you bring it to Nexus and he okays it I'll go with it but I really, really, really don't think this belongs in the normal queue.

[RadiantCowbells]

In fact it's not technically normal.

cannot be recruited to join the rest of the Mafia team

This should take precedence. Most players' idea of what normal is would have this take precedence.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's true that most of the real abuse cases only occur after a traitor enabler flip: aka town already knows that bullshit happened

but in general it's really questionable to have a slot give a false inno and then be required to be lynched for endgame wincon. it makes all your innos worthless.

traitor being inno is fine because you can win without lynching the slot, but it eventually being added to the must-be-lynched-for-win group is bad.

[RadiantCowbells]

Okay, but it's just bad.

This feels like a way to backdoor in a godfather.

[RadiantCowbells]

The answer is that I don't think that traitor should be enabled just like I don't think innocent child or mason should be enabled. It's a fundamental property of a role with different informational requirements that you can't just change midgame. If it weren't for the interplay between the investigative roles and the traitors it wouldn't be such a big deal but I don't think this setup is at all fair for town simply because of how far from normal the traitors currently function, unless you just throw a shitton of power onto town to make up for it in which case it's hardly a normal game at all.

[RadiantCowbells]

I will never change my mind on this. If Nexus says that it's okay I'll step down from reviewing this and bring this up in the NRG because I don't like this mechanic in a normal game whatsoever.

[RadiantCowbells]

At the very least all the information about this mechanic would need to be public knowledge.

[RadiantCowbells]

Err. I'm not arguing what a 'traitor enabler' would be if we accept that it's a thing. I'm arguing that traitor is not a role that should be treated as if it can be 'enabled' in that sense.

[RadiantCowbells]

Protectives are good. Penalizing scum for killing the obvious player every game is

[RadiantCowbells]

I think this is fine

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, that's not a pass. I'm fine with the setup but obviously we need role pms and ruleset

[RadiantCowbells]

/fail.

YOU GUYS SUCK UR ROLES ARE TERRIBLE UR SETUP IS AWFUL

BULLIES

[RadiantCowbells]

/pass