Newbie 1806 - The Ffery Garden: GAME OVER!

[WhyMafia]

VOTE: ciara
How dare you steal first post!!!

[WhyMafia]

VOTE: Ciara for blaming personal problems on my name -_-

I think you're supposed to say that it's L-2 now?

I mean L-2 isn't that noteworthy.
Always declare L-1 though

[WhyMafia]

Hi all! First game and super excited.

@mhsmith0 Thanks for all the info!

VOTE: WhyMafia Question marks are suspicious.

OO hope you have fun and stick to mafia ^_^

[WhyMafia]

Or are going with a No Lynch for D1?

Nah
No-lynches barely give us info. I would say it's better to lynch so we have a better understanding of how wagons evolved, and associations

[WhyMafia]

Town leaning Mhsmith for attempting to get us out of RVS

[WhyMafia]

Town leaning Mhsmith for attempting to get us out of RVS

Why do you think that's town-indicative? In particular, why do you think that scum-me would prefer a longer RVS to a shorter one, where I could more quickly start slinging sludge and pushing "cases"?

Because scum benefits from an extended RVS and jokes. RVS provides minimal risk as opposed to fabricating cases. Of course this is a weak reason, which explains my weak town read

[WhyMafia]

Is it better to lynch or push during RVS or just hang out and do nothing? WhyMafia is saying that extended RVS is bad for town and mhsmith is saying it's good. I remember in the guide I read in this thread that says extended is town favoured - or is it all down to the player?

Well I mean an extended RVS means we're not really making cases/wasting time
Therefore it is of my opinion that RVS is scum favored

Also, what's the point of RVS? I don't quite see what forcing people to react would do when there isn't any information to go on anyway. Especially if town can be scumread pretty easily. Maybe I'm missing something? Do you just bandwagon on someone and see what they say so you can trap them later if they are scum?

RVS happens because there's nothing to go off to begin with. When something controversial happens, it brings us out of RVS.

Keep asking questions if you have any ^_^

[WhyMafia]

I always thought that scum hated RVS because its hard for them to "act" RVS'y or something along those lines. You just get more suss by the minute WM. I've got my eyes on you.

I mean this is all theory lol
But regarding that:
RVS is simply joke posts. What's there to fake?

[WhyMafia]

Yeah, one last question - how do you do the nested reply thing? I haven't participated heavily on a forum site since hl2:dm was a thing. You managed to break up my post in two, both as replies so I'd like to know how to do that too.

Also, If you can break posts up like that can't you misconstrue people's words in order to bus them? I guess people would remember what they say and call you on it?

Thanks for teaching me the ropes!!!!

I mean I'm really bad at formatting. And my method of splitting replies is very inefficient. First, I highlight what I want to respond to. Then, I click quote. Next, I right my reply. Then, I cut it, and repeat with the second part. Finally, I am able to paste the first part back in.

Regarding your second question, I have no idea what you're asking sorry . Regarding the second sentence where you say "I guess people would remember what they say and call you on it," you can click the ISO on the top of the post where it also gives the post time and number to find all of that individual's posts. Alternatively, you can do it by clicking the drop down box on the bottom of the page. Using this method, you can check multiple people's posts at once

[WhyMafia]

Wrt RVS, it mainly is a personal preference. Some people are comfortable in it, some aren't. What I found odd was the statement of a read seemingly just based on my doing something, which is essentially a weak reason for a read.

I mean I said it was weak

[WhyMafia]

Hello Radiant

[WhyMafia]

Hello again!

Also, I have to ask: Why is WhyMafia Mafia?

[WhyMafia]

Whymafia is always mafia.

P.s sup RC long time no see

You've never completed a game with me

[WhyMafia]

I'm bored so I'm going to OMGUS Fykus
VOTE: Fykus

[WhyMafia]

You always come off as scummy lol. We'll see

Exactly. It sucks :/
I don't understand what's wrong with my tone but I always get scum read for it
Although I don't know what gave you that impression this game ..

[WhyMafia]

I basically have the same reads as you. Just be careful of your Ciara read. It could be the classic "This is something scum wouldn't do, so let's do it!"

[WhyMafia]

I really like the post from pers, it comes off as genuine to me so you're my first town read. woo woo.

Ciara was my townread. I have another townread.

I think Cankles could use more votes.

ok. pls dont be scum this game

VOTE: cankles

also sorry for not being active, will endeavor to do so this weekend though now I've got my foot in the door.

Don't like this vote at all

[WhyMafia]

I mean you didn't let Cankles explain his vote yet. Oh, are we doing the BP strat?

[WhyMafia]

This is only my second game if Mafia I've ever played. First on these forums, so until some REAL content presents itself, I don't have much to say. After the day ends I'll be much more active.

"I'm just gonna sit back until something happens, no bully pls"

@cankles: I would say that you should be active before the day ends. Content comes from the players, and the more that you invest into the game, the better you'll do and the more you'll learn.

Some potential areas of thought for you:

1) Do you agree or disagree that persephone is doing a lot of work, and that this is relatively likely to be coming from town with genuine curiosity and interest in solving the game?

2) What do you think of the early back and forth between me and ciara? Does it strike you as potentially alignment-indicative from either of us? If so, why?

3) What do you think of RC pushing you for having done nothing? Do you think that's relatively likelier to come from town or scum? If so, why?

4) What do you think of fykus and the discussion about him so far?

1 - I don't have much of a position on this one, i don't think it's too relevant as there's no real way to even have a suspicion if anyone right now.

2 - Again, Day 1 is just trolling and random finger pointing. Grabbing at nothing.

3 - RC on the first day? I won't decline if that's really what you insist on, and I'd believe someone prying me to RC is a scum move. And a dumb scum move.

4 - Everyone is just assuming at the tiniest little movements. I didn't expect that, D1 is almost always a NL (on the forums i play on)


Also, @ PestoSwami - by REAL content I mean actual reasonable suspicion. No roles have been revealed, there are no leads as to who is scum or town. Once somebody dies, we know a role, who pushed for them, etc. until then, we're spitballing.

"I don't want to do anything today because there is apparently nothing to hunt scum with"

I feel like that's more of a newbie mindset though .. that's how I first felt back when I started mafia

[WhyMafia]

I'd like to see fykus/cankles develop a bit before really getting into the BP stuff, but given that the game has overall been fairly stalled I don't really object if you want to claim bp/non.

If we do use it, can someone go over it's potential benefits over negatives? I just remember people are always arguing it in the games I play, but I've never seen concrete reasons why it's scum sided.

[WhyMafia]

I think theres a chance that it could be newb scum motivated. I also expect that whatever develops from this will give us some insight into other potential scum.

I mean I wasn't scum when I played my first game of mafia thinking like that
But yeah, let's see his reasoning on his vote on you

[WhyMafia]

I'd like to see fykus/cankles develop a bit before really getting into the BP stuff, but given that the game has overall been fairly stalled I don't really object if you want to claim bp/non.

If we do use it, can someone go over it's potential benefits over negatives? I just remember people are always arguing it in the games I play, but I've never seen concrete reasons why it's scum sided.

I don't wanna start a debate on the bp strat but isnt it general consensus that it benefits town and thats why it exists?

Nah I've seen people beginning to argue it's not beneficial. I just want to hear some of the more experienced players' opinions

[WhyMafia]

Of course I voted for the biggest wagon. I'm about to get lynched. I'm not sure how that makes me scum? A lynch has to happen in order for us to gain some sort of info. Go ahead and lynch me if you want, but you'll be losing a townie.

Oh god. I'm not sure how to perceive this. On one hand, it kind of makes sense for someone new to be frightened at L-2, but voting for the next biggest wagon, hoping for a quick lynch is just a no-no. If you were town, you ought to realize that someone quick-lynching you is basically scum-claiming. We have plenty of time before deadline to lynch

[WhyMafia]

The primary drawback is it distracts from scumhunting.
The secondary drawback is (if someone claims) it narrows down scum's list of mislynches, and having a wagon go to L-1 with someone claiming a town PR is actually fairly decent in terms of analyzing wagon development and voting motives, so that cuts out a useful part of the game.
The third drawback is if we're in cop only or jk only, it helps scum narrow down their options and makes the night game a bit less risky and complicated for them.

Ah. That makes sense.

[WhyMafia]

UNVOTE: All

[WhyMafia]

I really like the pictures you've been putting in
They look nice

[WhyMafia]

@whale
I would say I null town you. However, my read on you is way to early to be concrete, and this is on first impressions. I read through your wall, and surface level read it. And regarding the scummy tone, nobody here has played a complete game with me, but of you quickly skim through my other games, you can see for yourself.
Please answer peri's questions on Fykus btw, same general concerns I had.
Regarding my theory discussion with Fykus, I scum read him for his tone and his answers. While it is "theory", I'm not using it to deny anything. I scum read him, plain and simple. What did you like about his reaction to L-1?

[WhyMafia]

Oh for the next 3 weeks, my activity will drastically be reduced sorry :/
I'll definitely post everyday, but I'm st a sleep away camp :/

[WhyMafia]

have fun at camp <3

Thanks

[WhyMafia]

I'm just trying to learn the game lol I feel like everything I say is turning against me. But hey, trial and error! I figured I was gonna be lynched so I kinda gave up.

Never give up

[WhyMafia]

No it isn't ..
Stop doubting yourself
Push people
Who do you think is scum?

[WhyMafia]

Yeah uh Fykus is the only person I'm scumreading right now with any real content but I'd like to see more!

Persephone, what are your thoughts on things

So why isn't your vote on him?

[WhyMafia]

Because I'd like to see more content from other people.

What does putting your vote on Fykus have to do with seeing content from others

[WhyMafia]

Because when Fykus gets closer to being wagoned that becomes the main focus of the game rather than exploring other people.

I mean it gives us something to discuss, which might cause one of the people you want to hear from to speak more ..
or we could do the BP strat

[WhyMafia]

Took a quick re-skim, some notes:

I always thought that scum hated RVS because its hard for them to "act" RVS'y or something along those lines.

You just get more suss by the minute WM. I've got my eyes on you

.

Scum-reading a theory disagreement, subsequently lets it die

The bolded and underlined part was more of a rvs joke with a tinge of seriousness, but mostly just joking. Thats why I never bothered to bring it back up again. WM seems like a player who I wouldn't be able to confirm the alignment of until a later day.

As for finding something interesting I'll take a look and get back to you on that.

You call me out as scum by mid d1 every game so far -_-
And you've only been right once

[WhyMafia]

Wait a second I just reread the game.

VOTE: Whymafia

PRETTY sure this is scum yo

Ok

[WhyMafia]

I IS TOWN U STOP THAT.

Please stop avoiding questions and wasting time on an already slow moving game

[WhyMafia]

VOTE: RC

[WhyMafia]

don't omgus me

You're just dilly dallying and not progressing the game
State your case

[WhyMafia]

Lol this is ridiculous

[WhyMafia]

VOTE: RC





Sorry for the inactivity Ffferylit :/

[WhyMafia]

RC I need something to work with. If you're going to tunnel me, can you at least wait until you formulate something that I can defend against? In addition, why don't you search for my "partner" until you can make a genuine case. You're just wasting time and giving an illusion that you're contributing.

[WhyMafia]

If there's CC please do so now
UNVOTE: All
You're not infallible RC

[WhyMafia]

Cankles, Persephone, and Cowbell is town
I'll look at the remaining three

[WhyMafia]

Cankles, Persephone, and Cowbell is town
I'll look at the remaining three

cankles why town

For what someone said earlier regarding that scum would've hammered him

[WhyMafia]

Cankles, Persephone, and Cowbell is town
I'll look at the remaining three

cankles why town

For what someone said earlier regarding that scum would've hammered him

Although on second thought, it could just be scum being cocky enough that they could still pull a Mia-lynch

[WhyMafia]

VOTE: wheme

[WhyMafia]

Hi!

I'm sorry that I shut down conversation. It wasn't my intention and I got really frustrated that I was getting wagoned when I thought that I was obvtown.

Can I get a readslist with reasons from eveyrone?

When I flip town power lynch wheme like you did to me

[WhyMafia]

This was absolutely disgusting

[WhyMafia]

And then I am undecided
But it's either whale or miles

[WhyMafia]

The main thing I'm hesitant with whale is that he refused to give a read on wheme

Sure let's do it

VOTE: Wheme

And wtf is this self-vote
Let's go through this person's ISO
Oh wait ....
He has no content! Nothing screams town in Ciara's ISO either
And overall, this slot has been very awkward (the RVS, sheep RC, and his one opinion with RC "scumreading mh" was complete bs

[WhyMafia]

RC: Read Ciara/Wheme's ISO
Tell me with a straight face that it's towny

Persephone is obv town.
Gamesolved
Team is either Canckles/Miles (more unlikely) or Wheme/Miles/Cancklss
Way more convinced on wheme

[WhyMafia]

RC: Read Ciara/Wheme's ISO
Tell me with a straight face that it's towny

Persephone is obv town.
Gamesolved
Team is either Canckles/Miles (more unlikely) or Wheme/Miles/Cancklss
Way more convinced on wheme

Go read some games of mine please

I can even link you my first and only scum game which was painful

Self meta is easily changeable, especially if you have

one

scum game
Invalid try again

[WhyMafia]

You guys are letting scum waste your time on pre-flip associations because I'm town. This discussion is absolutely useless if you all are speculating her alignment based on me

[WhyMafia]

BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE HALF THE GAME IS CONF BIASING ME
THIS IS ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS

[WhyMafia]

Like I can't wait till I flip town lol
Nobody hammer please
At least let me get my thoughts out

[WhyMafia]

Crap my draft with my case didn't save

[WhyMafia]

Wheme if scum
First off, let's look at his entrance.
We have an immediate push on RC. However, the reasoning is minimal at best, and the read is extremely weak. Immediately after RC claims BP, Wheme says he'll sheep him. Almost too quickly .. Then he posts that a CC should happen. I find it weird that someone who scum read RC would immediately say he'll sheep him before asking for CC's. It seems to me like that read was completely fabricated. Almost to discredit himself? Then he can say he had wrong reads, and trusts RC's judgement to make the right decision (which you shouldn't do even if you're town). That way he shelves responsibility for a mis-lynch. And the rest of his posts just tunnel me. As much as it pains me, at least RC looks at other issues. Let's look at Wheme's thoughts ...
oh wait he has none cause he's sheeping RC

Anyways, in post 414, he states he thinks I am scum. Then in post 458 he says his vote was only due to sheeping RC. I feel like that's another scum slip. He knows I am town, so wants to dive off responsibility. Then in post 514 he says "hammer him".
A) Either he's incompetent townie
or
B) Scum who is impatient
Post 510 doesn't even make sense logically, he just seems to be kissing up.

Please someone tell me how Wheme could potentially be town

[WhyMafia]

No you aren't, WhyMafia is scum guyz.

Hopefully a more sizable post coming from me tomorrow. My computer didn't save my multi quotes so I'm going to have to go back through and redo all of it.

Get original

[WhyMafia]

wheme your vote on me was terrible you're not making endgame

My thought process was

RC scumread Mhsmith
Mhsmith looked townie
RC kills Mhsmith

How does this make sense

[WhyMafia]

. Look at Ciara's play with MHS. Now that we know that MHS was town in the beginning, if you look at Ciara's posts it looks much more town.

It just looks NAI

But I think that WhyMafia's push on him has been weak and even weaker if you look at him as a potential scum slot.

Disgusting. You haven't said anything about how Wheme is town. Just continue on your tunnel

[WhyMafia]

I don't have a lot to say right now, because I'm kind of on a flowchart that is waiting for Wheme and Whale to post answers to questions they've been asked. People have been talking a lot but from my end it looks like rehashing the same arguments. Maybe I should analyse the tone more when have have some more time tonight, but I really hope there'll be new posts from Wheme and Whale by then. I'm inclined to vote WM if both of them give good answers, but I'm very much not in a hurry. We have over a week to gather more information after all.

What questions

Mostly, I just want a reads list from you with reasons. And for you to explain your votes in ways that actually make sense. I don't really have to energy to quote every single post in the thread where people are bugging you to be more transparent or explain yourself.

He's scum, his reads are fabricated

[WhyMafia]

Whymafia, sing me a lullaby

Also:

We are not lynching Whemestar today. Foot down.

[WhyMafia]

I realize that nothing I say will dissuade y'all that I am scum. Well played scum. I just hope town lynches you tomorrow

[WhyMafia]

Hmm is Miles scum

Idk is he?
Why don't you make a case?

[WhyMafia]

Someone said cases are scummy and I agree

......

[WhyMafia]

I realize that nothing I say will dissuade y'all that I am scum. Well played scum. I just hope town lynches you tomorrow

Let's lynch elsewhere!

I don't have to lynch you.

who then

[WhyMafia]

Miles I've been thinking, and I support your case on Whale
UNVOTE: All
Ugh
3 scummy players
Who to choose? Decisions decisions.

[WhyMafia]

I can push Una, but I don't see his scuminess from that page. Willing to wait for whale however.

[WhyMafia]

RC can I get an apology post game if you manage to get me lynched <3

[WhyMafia]

Actually, can town get an apology


I CANT FIGHT THIS LYNCH BECAUSE IDEK WHAT TO FIGHT BCY ECBWKDDWF

[WhyMafia]

Here that last sentence really puts me off. Tonally, it feels very scummy. Even suggesting that RadCow stops focusing on him and tries to find suspicion elsewhere is a really cheap way to divert and allow for a possibility of redemption later in the day.

I stand by what I said. I didn't know RC was conf town, and it made no sense for him as town to be just wasting our time with "BOOOO WHYMAFIA IS SCUM"

[WhyMafia]

This feels so awkward to me. I put him at L-1, and then suddenly I'm a top contender for scum even though he hasn't been looking at me practically the whole game.

What? You didn't even look at context? You're just trying to cast shade. It's something called PoE and why I said

undecided

[WhyMafia]

idk but these two posts by Whale seem fake

[WhyMafia]

Are any of these proof that he's scum, or just an ineffectual town? Now of course, these actions DO seem like it would be more likely for scum than they would be for town, but this all just seems SO BAD for scum to do. Even someone totally inexperienced in this game would realize that these sorts of things are just making them asking to get lynched. This is why I feel like this read is weak; it's picking off the low hanging fruit and calling them obvious.

Is too scummy to be scum a thing though? Isn't that most of our basis on the scum read on Canckles?

[WhyMafia]

But changed my mind on whale, definitely liking the rest of his posts
Wheme/Una
That's my lynch pool

[WhyMafia]

Well we're in agreement then on the scum team
If I get lynched, will you promise to spearhead a lynch on them?

[WhyMafia]

I'm starting to get cold feet on my town read on pers
Need to re-read her ISO

[WhyMafia]

Ok I know I'll get lynched
But ...
I am town
So my final thoughts are that the scum team is Pers/Wheme
I've got nothing to lose, and I was kind of hiding my true read of Pers. She definitely looks towny on surface, but if you look back a her ISO, she hasn't really done much. I can't really explain it much, but please look into her ISO tomorrow. Additionally, she has tons of wishy-washy positions, and never seems to aggressively push something. I really like Whale's comeback posts, and like Mile's posts as well. Already explained Wheme countless times.

[WhyMafia]

So i can feel comfortable about the future, once I flip town, what's going to happen tomorrow?

[WhyMafia]

I'd probably vote Wheme if you flipped town

Ok good
Everyone else? After I flip town, what are y'all gonna do?

[WhyMafia]

Gg. Sorry town for my disappointing display :/
Well played though Pers and Miles

[WhyMafia]

And Una, please play another one or two MS games. As others said, the games you were part of, weren't really ordinary. I played horribly both games. I'm sorry that you had to feel the burden both times :/