Newbie 1806 - The Ffery Garden: GAME OVER!

[WhaleBarnicle]

Hey everyone! Looks like I have some stuff to catch up on so I'll read and get back to you all

[WhaleBarnicle]

Working on it. I read through everything once quickly, but I'm thinking it all over still and am going to read through one more time before I really post for real. Anybody have any specific issues they want my opinions on? Let me know and I'll add them to my write up if I didn't already touch on them.

[WhaleBarnicle]

Well first off I'd like to say to everyone hello, and thanks to Ffery for so quickly letting me join in on this game! This is my first time playing on this site, but I've played a few times with friends at parties. Those were always in person and with alcohol so from what I can tell of reading some other completed games they were pretty different. I'll start by just going through what I generally think of each person, and I'll hopefully have some questions for each person to respond to if they want. I'll wrap it up with just some general impressions about the game so far at the end. I had a lot to catch up on, so I may have lost some details, but fortunately it's still pretty early on so I'll be all eagle eyes from here on out.

In order:

PersephoneSidekick (Peri):

This is probably my biggest townread right now. Back in post 15 Peri warned about us putting someone at L-2 quickly. From a scum perspective this doesn't make sense since if we accidentally caused a quick mislynch without realizing it, we'd be down two people going into day 2 with very little information to go off of. If she were scum WITH Ciara (the person who was at L-2), then this seems like it would be a pretty forward defense and would get sniffed out pretty quickly if either one of them ended up flopping up scum. Then, what also struck me as town was in post 44. All of the questions that were asked were decent probing types of questions I thought. I personally didn't feel like there was really a lot of misguiding or suggestion in them.

My biggest concern for you is that you're almost too towny? I haven't really seen a lot wrong with the way you are playing, which ironically is almost concerning. Because of that, even though you are my biggest town read right now, don't sit to comfortably there cause I still have my eyes on you. For now though, I don't mind.

Questions for you: What do you feel about Cankles (The player, not the actual...disease? condition? weird fat storage thing?...)?

RadiantCowbells (RadCow):

At first I really liked your writing style cause I thought it was funny to read, but as more time has gone on I think I'm honestly just having a hard time getting in your head about what you are thinking because of it. Is this deliberate, or is this just how your talk on forums? I'm still a lot a bit confused by his whole "I have three townreads...jk I only had one townread...btw I'm totally town right guys?" Kind of posts (56, 67, and 85 in particular). I feel like saying you had three townreads, and then only saying you had one all along is just so stupidly scum that it can't possibly actually be scum. I know this is such terrible reasoning, but I feel like his posts are just not how a scum would act. I know when I've played before, scum would always try to be much slyer about things (which admittedly didn't always go so slyly for them), and this just doesn't seem like RadCow at all. That being said, I'm not ruling out the possibility of him being scum either. I think that with two scum it would make sense for one to be the talker and one to be the lurker. He could very well fit in that role. He posts without ever really saying much, and always seems to be leaving half his thoughts out. One thing I will say though is that his role DID get replaced out, and if it's someone new trying to play I feel like they would be more likely to stick around if they had a "fun" role like being mafia. Nothing really substantial, just something to keep in the back of your minds I guess.

Questions or you: Nothing in particular, but I would appreciate it if you could type up something like this where you go through each player. That might not be everyone's style and all, but even a few sentences all in one place would be nice. Unless...you're worried about tripping up and getting caught with something?

King Cankles (Cankles):

So far, one of my bigger contenders for scum spots. Let's see here...post 29 he suggests that we have a nolynch Day 1. How does this benefit literally anyone other than scum? If there's no lynch on Day 1, then it's entirely possible and probable that mafia would just kill off someone that was quiet/non provacative the first night and avoid pretty much all detection. It gives us pretty much no new information, and just set's us behind one person. Now, a mislynch on D1 would set us behind an extra person too, but at least we'd have some pretty valuable information to get out the deal. He lays dormant again until post 73 which is quite a ways down after getting prodded. He says that he doesn't have much to say since its only day 1. At least his story is consistent, but I find it fundamentally flawed to think that nothing important has transpired during the first day. Hiding from that fact and not taking an active position in figuring it out is either cowardly, or scummy at best.

After this, people finally start realizing just how little Cankles has really contributed to this, and I think that I really appeciate RadCow and Peri for point this out. Fykus went along with this little train too iirc, and what Cnakles said was just too little in terms of a justification. He still dodged a lot of questions, still really refused to take up much of an opinion about anything, and only promised to post more tomorrow (after he can consult his more experienced scum buddy for advice on what to say?... ). Too little too late, and if votes is what is going to have to get you to talk, then I would really really love to hear you sing. VOTE: Cankles. That's also L-1 for anybody playing along at home.

Question for you: Idk literally anything you feel like talking about by this point. Try really hard, there must be SOMETHING that's happened on day 1 that you have thought was interesting or suspicious. Do you even suspect anybody by this point? Even dropping some slight reads would be really nice.

WhaleBarnicle:

Scum. Plain and simple there really. In fact, VOTE: WhaleBarnicle.

PestoSwami (Salami):

I have a bit of a hard time reading this guy as well. I get that we are all new here and all, but it seems almost like he asks questions to meet his "posting quota" or something like that and also doesn't really tackle into any real situations. This could be someone new just really overwhelmed, or a scum feigning a dumb card. I'd see him as a potential lurker scum if that second one is the case, but obviously this is a bit more circumstantial than for Cankles who has admitted to playing this game in some form before (which is why I place my vote on Cankles and not Salami). I'd like to her more from you more.

Question for you: How did you hear about this website? What experience do you have with the game, and how can we trust you saying that? A general reads list would be nice too, just do not vote for Cankles right away without stating an intent to do so, I still want to hear if he comes up with anything good.

I'm starting to get tired of typing by this point so these may get a bit shorter/lazy over time. If you want more details, I can provide them upon request.

WhyMafia (?Maf):

My read on him is actually slight scum. He's been a bit more active than some of my other scum reads though, so I'd put him in that active mafia role a little bit more. Now that being said, active mafia I would still expect to stand a bit more off into the corner, but will pipe up every now and again to say something. The catch is in that something, and I feel like whenever they would say something, it would always be at an arms distance so as to not give out free ammunition that can be used against them later. Check back at ?Maf's posts, and I don't feel like very many of them are actually saying anything either. He either pushes off his opinions as "just theory" which gives him deniability, or says that his reads are the same as someone else's, which also provides room for doubt should something not turn his way in the future. He blames it on a scummy tone that he just naturally has, but even that is putting his bad behavior on something that is "outside of his realm of control". I see it as him just saying, "Sorry if I seem scummy guys, it's just who I am! Take it or leave it I guess..." This is my biggest scum read other than Cankles. If I could double vote for them both I would, but for now I'm not sure enough to really vote for him and the opportunity is perfect to place some pressure on my other big scum read.

Question for you: What do you think of me?

Fykus (Fykus, sorry you don't a cool nickname, your name is short enough already!):

I'm gonna be honest you're another offender of the whole post without saying anything important thing, but I like that you have a townread on Peri, I like that you see soemthing wrong with Cankles, and I like how you responded to being in L-1. Neutral to town from you, but I would really like to see more.

Question: What do you think of a ?Maf and Cankles team?

Cira24 (Cira) and MHSmith0 (MHS)

:

I'm putting you guys together because I have a general town read for you as it stands. I think a lot of that stuff at the beginning was mostly theatrics, and everything else was mostly town just looking for scum and coming up empty both ways. Cira has been a bit quiet as of late, but I think he said at some point it was IRL stuff getting in the way so that's fine as long as he makes up for it. Also, MHS has just been probing pretty well I think from what I can tell.

Questions for both of you: Analyze this post and tell me what you think.


Well everyone, read, think, read again, think, post, let's get this done.

[WhaleBarnicle]

And because I'm an idiot who forgot to switch his vote back VOTE: Cankles

[WhaleBarnicle]

I'm quick checking in myself while I'm at work, Cankles saying he is just giving up is sad to hear whether he is scum or town. Please reconsider at try and help us out? I'm still not sure if that has any real bearing on alignment though.

As far as Salami getting prodded, I think that actually adds a bit of validity to them really just not being sure on how this game is played. I thought it seemed a little bit thick before like trying to play ignorant to fly under the radar, but with the prod this seems a bit paranoid and overly suspicious.

I'm not totally sold on Fykus either? I'd like to hear things from someone else's perspective on the situation though, and I'll look at things again on my own a little bit later tonight hopefully. For now, I'm fine with Cankles maybe not right up on the chopping block, but we really need to start looking around guys (and I'll keep my vote there for now just in case he does say something pretty damning after he potentially starts being more active). The end of the day is coming up in about 8 days and that's right in time for July 4th (assuming you all are in the U.S.). What I DEFINITELY want to avoid is a situation where we all get busy, the timer goes out, and the mafia get away with a nolynch day one with very little content to show for it. Then it's all back to RVS on day 2 practically and we're just one man down with that much less room for error. That's obviously a worst case scenario, but one to watch out for.

For now, I guess my only other real hunch is ?Maf as I said earlier, but I'm getting less sure of that lately as well. Bah. I have to think.

[WhaleBarnicle]

Who doesn't like a good prod dodge?

I'm reading, but also working. One pays, so I'll update hopefully later tonight after I get off.

[WhaleBarnicle]

unvote: Cankles

I'll provide justification later, little bit not sober right now but it's ok cause I thought about this when I was sober. I agree with Peri when they said that the resigned tone sounded more town than anything else. L-1 was a good talking point for a bit, but I think it sorta died out by now.

See you tomorrow? Yeah, that sounds good.

[WhaleBarnicle]

Christ it's been a bit. Sorry for the delay, flights + time zone differences + packing + visiting a new city = getting a lot a bit behind. I'm here, and I've tried to read as critically as I can tonight. Tomorrow I'm going to reread and post my second time thoughts (hopefully!). With that in mind, understand that some of what I say here may shift somewhat when I read through it again, but I'm just going to check my notes/rant/type what I think of for now.

First of @Salami is reading this, sorry for being cautious of you! It's a vetting process. Hope I didn't ruin mafia for you or anything Anywho, I think that the Salami/Miles slot is pretty town all things considered. I think that having been replaced out, Salami's lack of understanding of game mechanics really was due to a lack of understanding, and they did provide some interesting thoughts whenever they posted. Namely in post 185: his way of finding mafia seemed honest and too detailed to be a fake story (more details = more chance for people seeing through it, so people who lie try and make it vague). In addition to this, he has a healthy skepticism of Peri, something that I voiced in my own post. Also goes on to say that the Cankles thing seems forced. I don't

totally

agree with this, but he's on the same train of thought as mine. These were the two biggest things that seemed town, but the Miles replacement has been pretty active in talking. I haven't read their posts super critically yet, but I think that they do seem town so far.

Second off, I don't know why (or if?) people were giving MHS crap for being scum. Him and Peri have been two of my pretty consistent town reads along this way. If MHS is playing scum, then he's doing a pretty fantastic job so far and I don't think we're going to be able to sniff it out until we get more information after tonight and maybe even tomorrow night (which hopefully we won't even need to get to...right guys?....). Peri, you're still town for me. Sorry you don't get much of an analysis this time around lol

Fykus is town though guys. I don't have any really good proof of this maybe, but I certainly don't have much to go off of saying that he's scum. Really, the only thing I have to think of is that, like Peri said about someone else and their own post, he may have been trying to get on my good side after my wall of a post last time I really contributed. Appeasement? Maybe, but doubtful. A lot of people said I seemed town after that, and any number of them could be scum, so I can't in good conscious suspect Fykus any more than someone else for that (and that goes for you too Peri with respect to whoever you made the appeasement case on). I'll definitely be more interested in Fykus if my initial guess(es) are wrong, but for now I don't feel confident enough to put any votes on him.

I'm still scum, so here's the VOTE: WhaleBarnicle to move the game in the one true direction.

RadCow I think is also town, but I really had a bit of a hard time saying this. Call it a "gut feeling" ( ), but I really didn't like his posts for a while. All in all, I think it's just because he has a pretty radically different play style than what I would do myself. It sets me off because I just wonder why the hell anyone would actually post like that. I don't doubt that he really is thinking about all of this behind the scenes, and I don't doubt that he may have a pretty good idea about who is scum.

Ciara....please have a good reason why you aren't posting. Literally every post you have made you've explained that you've been too busy to post. I want to believe that, hell I really haven't added a ton ton to the game myself because life happens and shit comes up, but please post more. I feel like I know next to NOTHING about your opinions, and I'm afraid that its going to come too little too late. If nothing comes by deadline, I'm putting a vote on you at the start of D2 for pressure (most likely). I still think you're town based off of the interaction you had with MHS at the beginning of the game. It's not a lot to go off of so this is a pretty weak read, but I feel like that entire thing was two town players really just testing out the waters with each other, sort of like how armies will have small fire fights that will happen intermittently until the big battle actually starts. The only difference is that I think you two are on the same side (well, hopefully, otherwise I'm going to look like an idiot by now).

MHS is town too I think. He's been trying to move the game along a lot, and I don't feel like any of it has been particularly forced. Natural scum hunting is good scum hunting, and I'd be pretty damn surprised if he were scum.

And to be honest, I'm still sitting by my two scum reads from my last post. Cankles and ?Maf.

Cankles...lord I hope you realize I'm not attacking you but instead your play style here. It's inconsistently detached. You said in post 73 that things are pretty slow on D1. By my count, we left RVS somewhere between posts 56-67. There were things you could have talked about. Then, in post 100 you said that this is the second game of mafia you've ever played, the first on this server. This implies that you've played 1 on a separate server were no lynches are more common on D1, and then began to play on this server. Now, I have no way of proving that you didn't read a substantial number of games on the other server before you played/moved over to this one, but it seems inconsistent with what you say in post 104. You say there that D1 is

almost always

a NL...wouldn't saying almost always imply far more experience than just one game's worth of playing? Then you go on to say "(on the forums I play on)". Anyone else catch it? "(on the forum

s

I play on)". ..........So how many other games of mafia have you played? How much experience do you have with this game again? I'm sorry, but this just isn't adding up. Maybe I'm grasping at straws, but hey, that's all any of us are doing up to this point anyway apparently so I may as well join along.

But wait, there's more: post 124. "A lynch needs to happen in order for us to gain some sort of info." So, do you want a lynch day one or not? I'm sorry, but none of this is adding up. Potentially small grammar mistakes aside, this comment blatantly goes against the entire premise of what you've been going off of and still stick to up to this point. And then....even after quite a substantial bit of content, still nothing substantial from you. I don't care if your old server(s?) did no lynches on D1, when in Rome (or on the Road to Rome) do as the Romans do. Please, before the day is out?

I don't want to think you're scum. I don't really want to think any of you are scum, but you realize why considering all of these things just raises so many potential red flags? Even if you don't want to express your opinions today for fear of getting killed in the night, can you at least give me a sign that I'm not crazy for being suspicious here? (And before anybody quotes the post where I said that Cankles was town, I'd like to point out that I was drunk at the time. I saw that Peri was giving him some slack as just being a misunderstood less than active player. I'm a simple guy, I see Peri post something, I like to think it's true. I trust them well enough to go with that thought process in the moment. I'm nonetheless still suspicious of Cankles being scum). The worst part of it all: Despite having more of a case on you than anyone else, a huge part of me still doesn't think you're scum though. Something else is missing from this picture, and I feel bad not being able to pinpoint it. If you are town, I'm sorry and I wouldn't necessarily be surprised, but if you flop scum I think I wouldn't be surprised less, you feel?

For ?Maf, I have less to rant about (Again, Cankles I really hope you don't fundamentally hate me after that), but I still think that he's my next best read for scum. I still feel like too many of his posts at the beginning were too aloof from responsibility, and there were a couple of moments since then that have made me raise an eyebrow. I'm not a fan of him mentioning so many times that we should try to BP strat. I'm no expert, and to be honest I'm not entirely sure how that situation would even play out fully, but I just feel like this is...early...to go and start role claiming. Gives mafia more info than they need going into the nighttime at this point. You're telling me they wouldn't like a little bit of a more sure fire shot? The only problem I have with this then is that it really does seem obvious for ?Maf scum to go pushing so hard for a role claim this early on. Another problem I have with this is that the ?Maf + Cankles interactions do not point AT ALL to them being scum together. They're mostly one sided going from ?Maf --> Cankles, but it'd be a stretch to make any sort of case off of those posts. That being said, maybe ?Maf is just that good. Maybe I'm right about one of them, and wrong about the other. Maybe I'm wrong about both! Statistically, I probably am!

Someone has to be scum though, and I know it's not me. I'm fairly certain it's not Peri, MHS. RadCow and Fykus seem less likely than Ciara and Miles, and ?Maf and Cankles seem most likely. Tonight is probably gonna be a mislynch (if there is one by this point), that's just an unfortunate truth, but I'm going to be VERY interested in thinking this all over tomorrow once we know who died. That being said, if I were smart mafia, I'd definitely have my eyes out on a few people for targets tonight. RadCow and Fykus are too controversial to kill. Even if they were on the right leads for people, they're wild enough to be able to try and make a case out of them. They're strong players for sure, but this early it might be obvious to get rid of them. Cankles would be a good target to kill. He's been quiet, and hasn't added much. But, assuming he's town for a moment (which he still might be), he's also a really good potential scapegoat, so I don't see them going after him either. Ciara has been awfully quiet too, so I'm not sure what to make of that as a potential target tonight. As of now, it could be, it could not be. Depends on their mood I guess? Miles is too new to really know, and I think that they might keep him alive just to see if they can't get him on their side being a little bit of a later replacement and being more easily to convince because of that maybe if that's actually a thing??? I think Peri and I are both good targets though. Practically everyone had either a null or town read on us, and the kill could equally come from any one of us. I think Peri is the more likely target due to being more active. Though, now that I said that, who knows.

Hell, now that I've said any of this who knows. If Peri doesn't die tonight, am I going to assume it's because they're actually part of the scum team, or because I think the scum team isn't killing them because I said it was obvious? Maybe they didn't kill them exactly so I WOULD start thinking that. Maybe I'm part of the reason why Cankles IS such a good scapegoat. Who knows, this game isn't easy and I think that for a Day 1 we didn't end up doing too bad in terms of getting activity going to look back on tomorrow. I don't have a ton of games to reference to see if this is normal sure, but it'll be better than nothing once we know 2 people's alignments after the night kill too.

For now, all I can really do is just vote where I have the most suspicion, and right now that means VOTE: Cankles. I think we missed our opportunity taking them off of L-1 so soon, and that's something to look at (in terms of who broke the pressure so soon). This close to deadline, I don't think that any significant pressure is going to be mounted on them, and I doubt they are going to come forth and open the flood gates just because I asked them too, but it's where I feel the most confident on, even if that's still shaky as hell.

I'm going to bed. I'm also going to be bored waiting for fireworks for most of tomorrow, so I'll be sure to have my phone charged and checking frequently. I'll reread the best I can, especially the more recent posts and probably post more tomorrow (shorter posts I promise! )

Barnicle out (I don't know how to end these things ever).

[WhaleBarnicle]

@Cankles, that seems pretty reasonable, sorry for potentially jumping down your throat with that logic. I'm still not thrilled with your playstyle, and I still definitely have eyes on you for pretty much everything else I said.

@Peri I'm still suspicious of Cankles because of the reasoning in my post regarding a complete denial to participate. Someone else said that scum leaves the most clues on Day 1...

[WhaleBarnicle]

...and saying that Day 1 is all guesswork and refusing to talk much sure is a convenient way to avoid leaving clues. Its going to be interesting to see tomorrow whether or not he pushes cases or jumps on wagons more.

Concerning Fykus, I don't see him as scum still, though the read certainly has gone more towards null hearing the thoughts of others. If he flips scum, I'm sure I'll catch flack for thinking he was town for a bit but such is life.

As in regards to Ciara, I can't have anything more than a null read on him simply because of the pure lack of ANYTHING, the poor person has gotten prodded how many times? The beginning interactions seemed town, but we'll see what the SLOT gives us Day 2 because I suspect Ciara will get replaced overnight by this rate.

This is just about the last chance I can check in til after deadline so see you all tomorrow assuming I survive! As always, I vote for the most scummy one here

Vote: WhaleBarnicle

[WhaleBarnicle]

(Had to split on mobile sorry guys)

[WhaleBarnicle]

Newbie 1806 The Ffery Garden

Moderator: fferyllt
Backup Moderator: Cabd

After four years of drought, voluntary and mandatory water conservation measures have finally ended. The reservoirs are full and the Ffery Garden is once again a thing!

The morning is still and quiet, and sunlight has just begun to stream into the yard. It appears to be a time for peaceful contemplation and enjoyment. But, looks can be deceiving. Nature has sent ravenous creatures into the garden. Will they prevail? Or will there be a harvest this year?

Player List (9)

PersephoneSidekick
RadiantCowbells

DoubloonSeven

King Cankles
WhaleBarnicle

Ginseng Tea, Geralt of Rivia¹

Miles Edgeworth

PestoSwami

WhyMafia (SE)
Fykus (SE)
Whemestar (SE)

Cira24 A Simple Plan¹

mhsmith0 (IC)

¹ - replaced in pregame

Spoiler: Alive

PersephoneSidekick
RadiantCowbells
King Cankles
WhaleBarnicle
Miles Edgeworth
WhyMafia
Whemestar

Spoiler: Dead

Fykus,

Vanilla Townie

was lynched on Day 1
Fykus,

Town Tracker

was killed on [post=37315]Night 1

Spoiler: Modkilled

Let's not go there

Spoiler: Vote Counter Settings

Living Players

PersephoneSidekick
RadiantCowbells (replaces DoubloonSeven)
King Cankles
WhaleBarnicle (replaces GinsengTea)
Miles Edgeworth (replaces PestoSwami)
WhyMafia (replaces wm)
Whemestar (replaces Ciara24)
mhsmith0

Links

Day 1: Post #3
Day 2: Post #373

Welcome WhemeStar, what have your thoughts been so far reading through? Were you surprised by either flop?

[WhaleBarnicle]

No time to really post now, but Cankles is still absent. Also I'm digging this WhyMafia wagon, but I'm not going to vote in case he is town and mafia pull a quick hammer to send us into the night again. Intent to put at L-2? Is that even a thing?

Peri is still looking town, RadCow is looking town too, Wheme and Cankles are pulling me in two directions for the other mafia though. Oh, and Miles seems good too. I thought that the Salami slot was towny before he even came in, and he's been pretty insistent on pushing leads which is good in my opionon. Obviously nobody is out of the question entirely (other than me, who is obv v scum guyz), but that's my quick gut check on reading through from the end of last night so far.

The only thing I can think that was directly addressed to me was why I voted for myself at the end of yesterday (I think Miles asked me?). I thought that was pretty clearly a joke? It was obvious that Cankles wasn't going to be a thing and I wasn't going to be able to add much to the discussion before the deadline so a nice silly self vote wouldn't hurt anyone. Does that clear anything up Miles? Also guys, feel free to shoot some questions my way during the day tomorrow, tomorrow night I'll read through them and say what I think.

[WhaleBarnicle]

So yeah...If Cankles could post more tham hmm that would be nice.

[WhaleBarnicle]

Alright, I wanted to wait a little bit before I posted to see if he would produce anything substantial, and he didn't. So....


VOTE: WhyMafia. L-1 and anyone with a quick hammer declares a scum spot with this much time left. Here's the way I see it:

Barnicle:Town
RC: May as well be confirmed town now with no CC
Peri: Also towny (watch they end up being scum )
Cankles: Still just no content...makes me very sad.
WhyMaf: Been wary of them for a while now, and I think that the vote on Wheme was pretty weak
Wheme: ?? Maybe scum who knows.
Miles: Towny in effort, and like I said earlier I don't think that PestoSwami was ever that bad of a slot. He's the only person who ever thought it was strange how much I tunneled on Cankles day one. Admittedly it was a wrong lead anyway, but a healthy does of skepticism is good.

Anyway, I thought it over and I think it would be stupid for mafia to hammer right now. If we truly do have a one shot BP then we can survive an extra day night cycle before it's game over if we mess up, and I think that will give town a bit of an edge. And I wouldn't mind seeing WhyMaf get some extra heat on him. If we lynch and he's scum...well that's all the better really.

[WhaleBarnicle]

But seriously guys we need to be more active because if there's one thing that Miles said that I really agree with is that scum will only ever hide unless provoked to do otherwise. We need to be more active in this scum hunting. I know I'm at fault because work is crazy and I can't post as much as I would like. That being said we need to move this game along somewhat with MHS gone (he was really the only one who pushed on D1), and I'm going to try and post at least once or twice a day.

[WhaleBarnicle]

How can you not make a reads list this late in the game? Are you just trolling WhyMafia?

[WhaleBarnicle]

Whale whale whale that prod snuck up on me. I'm keeping my vote right where it is for now though. I'm interested in this Peri scum idea though. I don't see it off of my first gut check but I may have conf. biased out of it so I'm gonna think it over.

Also welcome to Cankles's replacement, hopefully you can give us some real content!

[WhaleBarnicle]

In fact RC why aren't you voting Why Mafia anymore?

[WhaleBarnicle]

I'd ask for a reason but 506 was just so terrible that vote doesn't even need justification

[WhaleBarnicle]

No you aren't, WhyMafia is scum guyz.

Hopefully a more sizable post coming from me tomorrow. My computer didn't save my multi quotes so I'm going to have to go back through and redo all of it.

[WhaleBarnicle]

I really don't think that him pushing RC right out of the gate is really all that terrible. There's a possibility that Wheme would have just read RC as scummy from the first day's play, and that was before that RC had claimed he was BP. For someone who is replacing in, a vote before reading over everything may as well be a RVS vote. Look at Ciara's play with MHS. Now that we know that MHS was town in the beginning, if you look at Ciara's posts it looks much more town. Wheme doesn't have a lot of content. Yeah, he doesn't. But I think that WhyMafia's push on him has been weak and even weaker if you look at him as a potential scum slot.

[WhaleBarnicle]

Miles, I haven't forgotten about you. Driving back from a weekend trip now and will address your concerns later tonight. It looks like I missed a lot though so UNVOTE: All just in case.

[WhaleBarnicle]

This is going to be a real stream of consciousness thing here since I have a fair decent bit to catch back up on and eventually comment on. I've really only parsed through the posts from the start of the day cause I've been busy IRL myself. That being said I saw in some post that someone gave me crap for trying to hide stuff in walls of text so I'll try and just break these up more into smaller posts for readability.

Of course I voted for the biggest wagon. I'm about to get lynched. I'm not sure how that makes me scum? A lynch has to happen in order for us to gain some sort of info. Go ahead and lynch me if you want, but you'll be losing a townie.

I know I'm going way back with this one, but I can't just help but feel like this post was so terrible. I can't be the only one who has forgotten this am I?

I am as caught up on the events that occurred before my arrival as I care to be. Some thoughts:

How did King Cankles go three days at L-1 without being lynched?

Fykus was a constant counterwagon, thanks to PersephoneSidekick and King Cankles leaving their votes on him for the majority of day 1. Fykus, a townie, was the eventual lynch.

This information alone makes KC

unlikely to be mafia

in my view. Fykus was

constantly an option for the mafia to lynch

if KC were a mafia under attack. It took very little for Fykus to go: I didn't even make a formal case against him, just voted him because I found some of his early activity suspicious and had a couple of things I could cite to support it. I didn't pressure him to a meaningful extent or have to recruit anybody to vote for him; he just picked up two more votes relatively quickly and died.

Suppose KC were mafia. If that's really all it took to get the town to swing toward Fykus, why did KC sit for three days at L-1 and a week after that at L-2? That's a long time for the mafia to let one of their own dangle so close to death without doing anything to save him. More likely, to me, is that KC and Fykus were both town wagons. This would imply that the mafia didn't need to do anything, since the vast majority of the day had two town wagons and very little activity in the thread. The mafia had no incentive to hurry up and end the day, since there was so little activity in the thread; in fact, about the only thing they could mess up would involve hammering KC and looking shady in the process.

This means that the mafia are likely among the people who...
- Spent a lot of the day voting for one person: This game stalled out big-time. These environments are very pro-scum. As a result, we would expect townies to be the ones who switched votes multiple times through the day, after the random voting stage ended, as part of their investigating and attempts to break out of the stall. Conversely, scum would want to look interested in any breaking developments, but would not want to be too proactive in discovering anything, since the game state is good for them, and since the worst thing that could happen for them to effect that is to give the town a new perspective from which to consider things.
- Voted outside of the two wagons: The mafia's gameplan in a situation like I suspect we had day 1 (two town wagons in a stalled game) will be to lay low. They don't want to stir the pot and accidentally incite the town out of the stall. They want both wagons to get slowly and ineffectually lynched without significant involvement from either of them. Ideally, they wouldn't even be on the lynched wagons at all, since the default reaction in these situations is to go after the weakest votes on the lynched towns' wagons. Thus, we would expect them to find a reason to be off of the main wagons at the end of the day.

It's for these reasons that I call

WhaleBarnicle

to the stand.

And why not WhyMafia? He voted off wagon during the first day. Like I've said before, many of his posts the first day were allowed him to provide very little commitment compared to the content that he was producing.

As for other comments on this post. I went back and checked some numbers, and while Cankles stayed at L-1 for three physical days, he was only at L-1 from post 143 (mine) to post 169 (RadCow's). 26 posts in a game that you admitted yourself stalled out. Hammering without intent is a serious scum tell, and no town would do it. If there were even a single scum on the wagon hiding in plain sight, after getting the heads up of intent it would be too easy to unvote to either keep the day going, or because of Cankles' answer, or for any other BS reason. Then, sitting at L-2 on Day 1 isn't that big of a deal either I don't think, and I don't think that scum would really be too worried about this with other wagons forming as well. All I'm saying is that while these are all really good thoughts, I don't think they really save the slot from being scum.

WhaleBarnicle:
1. Now that KingCankles has had several days to ruminate over the results of day 1, has checked into the thread since day 2 started, but hasn't yet posted anything, how do you feel about his behavior? You did say here that you were going to watch him for how he chose to develop the game state in day 2.

Yeah, and to be honest he didn't perform. Hell, he even got replaced. I'm not sure if that means he just got frustrated and ragequit, got busy IRL, or just lost interest.

2. Given my argument from voting behavior above, do you maintain your suspicion of KingCankles?

See above quote. HE made this slot suspicious. I haven't really delved into his replacement's posts yet.

3. Given the late shift toward Fykus and away from KingCankles,

why did you pull your vote for him and vote yourself

, thereby ensuring your primary suspect had no way to get lynched?[/b]

Again, I said at some point that this was more for humor/frustration than anything else. It was pretty clear by the time that I made that post that the Cankles wagon was going nowhere.

Does this answer all your questions from this post once and for all?

RC I need something to work with. If you're going to tunnel me, can you at least wait until you formulate something that I can defend against? In addition, why don't you search for my "partner" until you can make a genuine case. You're just wasting time and giving an illusion that you're contributing.

Here that last sentence really puts me off. Tonally, it feels very scummy. Even suggesting that RadCow stops focusing on him and tries to find suspicion elsewhere is a really cheap way to divert and allow for a possibility of redemption later in the day.

On to page 17

[WhaleBarnicle]

Also since people are online, can someone post a real quick vote count that's current?

[WhaleBarnicle]

Also also, I'm past the point where RadCow already claimed to be a BP: has literally anyone considered the fact that was a lie? I know that another PR could claim right then and there to prove him wrong, but considering that the only other role that is possible in this setup is Doctor, I don't think that would actually happen.

If a doctor came forward and claimed, their power would literally be useless as they would undoubtedly be targeted in the night and killed. What good is that then unless doctors can indefinitely protect themselves in the night (can they?)?

I think RadCow is town, and I don't necessarily think he is lying about his PR, but I wonder why nobody has brought this up by this point. If it has and I haven't read it yet, sorry lol

[WhaleBarnicle]

Pg 18 and onwards here:

And then I am undecided
But it's either whale or miles

This feels so awkward to me. I put him at L-1, and then suddenly I'm a top contender for scum even though he hasn't been looking at me practically the whole game.

How can you not make a reads list this late in the game? Are you just trolling WhyMafia?

Just refreshing memories on this one. If answered later in the thread then just ignore this.

WM: RC's opinion counts for something. Tone looks increasingly bad to me but that's probably me being impressionable so I'll just fold it into RC. Other than that, no evidence really. Scummier than most other people I guess.

Wheme: Flippant votes, opportunism and no content. Not even doing that good a job trying to look busy. Trollish self vote. And like all of Ciara's very few semi-contentful posts were scummy too. Seriously, lynch this slot.

VOTE: WhemeStar That's L-1, at least until he takes off his stupid self-vote.

I can see how RadCow could see the line about WhyMafia would seem sympathetic as a team. Peri would seem indifferent/slightly on the wagon if WhyMafia flips scum, but it's pretty lazy and I feel like Peri is smarter than this if they were scum together.

That being said I can also see where Peri is coming from with his view of Wheme? Not totally on board but at first glance this seems like not terrible reasoning I guess.

I'm really not not sure what to make of the banter between Wheme and WM association wise. It's weird for scum versus scum but it's kind of weird for anybody? Okay lets think about all possibilities.

Both scum: WM unconvincingly accuses Wheme thinking that it will appear to clear Wheme after he gets lynched and flips scum. Wheme halfheartedly appears to fight back for appearances. It's plausible at this point that Scum!WM would feel already caught and might be primarily focused on protecting his partner with weird WIFOM shenanigans. With Wheme already under suspicion too, the situation is sort of desperate. I can see it, but it's still weird.

WM scum, Wheme town: WM cornered, and Wheme looks like good divert target because he's playing so unhelpfully. Wheme responses continue previous playstyle. This is plausible but depressing because it means we have even more ineffective townies than we realized. WM's partner would probably be Miles in this scenario, because if you look at ISO he kind of defends WM a lot.

Wheme scum, WM town: WM is real frustration and honest reaction to Wheme's scummy posts. Wheme tries to flippantly shrug off pressure. This feels like the most solid possibility. Partner could still be Miles, but only by POE. I wouldn't want to rule out Cankles for example; he's hardly cleared.

Both town: Real frustration on both sides, but then who the hells is scum? Miles + Cankles?

Conclusion: So a lot of what this is telling me is to take Miles more seriously as a candidate, because there are a lot of scenarios for him. I still think that the priors are highest for Wheme, so I'm keeping my vote there for now.

RC, who do you think WM's partner is?

The bolded part that I added honestly seems to me like the most serious opportunity.

[WhaleBarnicle]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaa

Is there a reason you are so sad?

[WhaleBarnicle]

No time to really post now, but Cankles is still absent. Also I'm digging this WhyMafia wagon, but I'm not going to vote in case he is town and mafia pull a quick hammer to send us into the night again. Intent to put at L-2? Is that even a thing?

Peri is still looking town, RadCow is looking town too, Wheme and Cankles are pulling me in two directions for the other mafia though. Oh, and Miles seems good too. I thought that the Salami slot was towny before he even came in, and he's been pretty insistent on pushing leads which is good in my opionon. Obviously nobody is out of the question entirely (other than me, who is obv v scum guyz), but that's my quick gut check on reading through from the end of last night so far.

The only thing I can think that was directly addressed to me was why I voted for myself at the end of yesterday (I think Miles asked me?). I thought that was pretty clearly a joke? It was obvious that Cankles wasn't going to be a thing and I wasn't going to be able to add much to the discussion before the deadline so a nice silly self vote wouldn't hurt anyone. Does that clear anything up Miles? Also guys, feel free to shoot some questions my way during the day tomorrow, tomorrow night I'll read through them and say what I think.

I'm late on your offer at the end here, but I figure you'll have plenty of time to indulge me before the phase ends.

Obviously your self-vote wasn't a serious declaration of guilt. That's not what I'm getting at.

You say "it's obvious Cankles wasn't going to be a thing," but Cankles was sitting at L-1 for three days and always had some number of people willing to kill him. The shift toward Fykus at the end of day 1 was very plodding and reluctant on the part of the town. Nothing about this situation strikes me as being obvious that Cankles would get off the hook. If you really suspected him to be mafia, then the shift toward Fykus should have motivated you to push

harder

in the thread to get Cankles killed instead, since it represented a real danger of losing the lynch you wanted. Why did you not only do this, but also pull your own support?

Didn't strike you as obvious that Cankles was getting off the hook? He literally sat there on day one with people directly telling him to post and said "...meh, no real content sry". And then nothing happened. By the end of the day, there was what, maybe one person voting for him other than me? Was I the last one? It doesn't even matter because for all intents and purposes, if he were scum, he got off the hook alright. I lost the lynch I wanted, and wanted to see how he would respond on day 2 (which he didn't.).

In terms of fighting harder for the lynch: what good is it for me to stand on the table in the room and repeat myself over and over to nobody listening? Sorry but I have better things to do with my time, like be on vacation IRL. I never really understood the Fykus wagon, but I also didn't really have sufficient time to analyze why he was town in my eyes, so I elected to comment on it little in the event I was wrong. By that point, I was curious to see what was going to happen during the night and wanted to get into Day 2.

Allow me to remind you of your own prior statements near the end of day 1:

I'd also like for you to explain to me your shift in suspects priority from day 1 to day 2. You have consistently had Cankles and WhyMafia as your top two suspects. For day 1, you had Cankles above WhyMafia. For day 2, WhyMafia was a higher priority for you. Yet, your description of Cankles's play in day 2 has been as such:

So yeah...If Cankles could post more tham hmm that would be nice.

Alright, I wanted to wait a little bit before I posted to see if he would produce anything substantial, and he didn't. So....
Cankles: Still just no content...makes me very sad.

In other words, nothing about Cankles has changed. This I agree with. Tell me then, why did your priority change, if your primary suspect did nothing to become less suspicious since yesterday?

Can't squeeze blood from a rock my man. If I needed to wait for Cankles to produce some content, I may as well go after WhyMafia. The posts there were to signify that he hadn't left my radar overnight, which would look very suspicious would it not?

[WhaleBarnicle]

FROM PAGE 20

Why whalebarnicle

Also whalebarnicle is there a way to spoiler your posts or make more posts but not as big. I hate wall posts

Noted. Can't make promises, I'm a get it all out there type of person, but I'll try cause you asked really, really nicely.

Spoiler because it is not game relevant:

It's predicated on the assumption that you know what people could/would do in certain situations. Something I feel important to understand in terms of mafia play is that most of the time you don't know why people do things.
Most of what people do is not done for any obvious scum/town motivation or often any motivation at all, it's just what they happened to do at the time. Even players like me who rigorously plan out (moreso as scum but) games from top to bottom.

You have created one narrative by which Barnicle is scum who did certain things. There are also plenty of narratives by which he is town and did the same thing.

Not "knowing." Predicting what they should do, if they are rational actors who have a certain set of objectives in mind to win the game.

Obviously people are imperfectly rational and simply have an x% fail rate at doing the rational thing. All that means is that sometimes you will make a logical read by correctly following the rules of logic and applying them to your suspect's behavior and nonetheless be incorrect. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't pursue aforesaid logical reads.

Tell me then, if you don't practice a method like mine, what method

do

you practice? Because with all due respect to Your Towniness, that method has been very opaque this game, at least from my seat.

Have you taken a Myers-Briggs test? PM your results if you have/take one after this, I have a hunch we would get the same results based off of how you wrote this!

I'm going to respect that he acted optimally

Thanks for the benefit of the doubt at least lol

FROM CURRENT THREAD

This feels so awkward to me. I put him at L-1, and then suddenly I'm a top contender for scum even though he hasn't been looking at me practically the whole game.

What? You didn't even look at context? You're just trying to cast shade. It's something called PoE and why I said

undecided

Didn't even look at context? I'm literally posting as I read the thread real time, how much context do you want me to consider? I'll go back in case I missed something but come on.

WhyMafia is getting frustrated. That's not hard to tell. Do you guys think he's a frustrated townie or scum scraping the bottom of the barrel? I'm saying now that if nothing changes my mind in these next few pages of reading, my votes going right back on WhyMaf

[WhaleBarnicle]

Anyway. Whale, are you up for lynching Una/Cankles with me?

I haven't seen enough of Una to really say yes or no to this, and part of it does depend on WhyMaf's reaction and flip so how about you put this down in pencil for now and we'll check up on it later?

[WhaleBarnicle]

And we couldn't even pull off the lynch by ourselves right now anyway, only up to L-1

[WhaleBarnicle]

You guys are letting scum waste your time on pre-flip associations because I'm town. This discussion is absolutely useless if you all are speculating her alignment based on me

To be fair, this wasn't actually all that bad. It is consistent with him saying that he's town, and he is right in saying that if he does flip town then the Peri scum argument goes down the drain pretty quickly. (See? it's not all just confirmation bias, I can agree with you!)

I'd ask for a reason but 506 was just so terrible that vote doesn't even need justification

Explain.

:checkmark: That being said I do want some reasoning for that vote now.

Just hammer him

These kind of actions always worry me.

This is either scum playing VERY carelessly and see-through, or a townie making questionably aggressive remarks.

In any scenario, WHY would you do this WhemeStar?
Town only takes advantages from longer days, so wanting the day to end quickly is very scummy, even in cases where scum would be 100% locked.

We should take the time we have and try to build cases for WhyMafias scumpartner (in the event he flips scum).

I had a revelation, so I re-read most of the game.

I really feel like we have a good situation here as Town.
Going for the worst case scenario, should we lynch WhyMafia and he flips town, we still have one conf.town to lead us, and by PoE I feel we could pretty much clear Perse. (at least to me he is susp. mainly by proxy)

To me, Wheme and Whale seem like the obvious duo in the scenario where WM/Perse isn't scum, but RC seems to have a VERY strong townread on Whale.
Meaning Miles/Wheme then?

I'm not sure how RC reads this slot with Cankles playing very quiet almost all game, and then me liking to post a lot and try to deduce shit, but from a VT perspective this situation in game doesn't seem bad.

I'll sheep RC today, but my suspect list differs on Whale/Miles, for now, at least.

You guys are letting scum waste your time on pre-flip associations because I'm town. This discussion is absolutely useless if you all are speculating her alignment based on me

Is this scum trying to bait newbies into quicklynching himself?
But then why didn't he just selfvote to end the day quickly?

A question I have for RC/Miles/Whale: What goals could be driven through this post by WhyMafia?

All these posts seem really forced to me. Every single one of them talks as through the perspective of town. Lots of "we as town" and "from a VT perspective" type of stuff. Town doesnt really talk like this, and it's a nice way to potentially frame what someone might think when they are reading this post. Sort of like some sort of subliminal suggestion almost? I know people always say they are town, but this seems different and I think raises some suspicion. Thoughts ne1?

[WhaleBarnicle]

VOTE: Unabombah

sorta think Cankles was scum now

Feels good when I think something is sketch and then I see this at the top of the next page.

VOTE: Unabombah

sorta think Cankles was scum now

I was waiting for this to happen.
I'm used to getting targeted for my upfront play.

I'll turn it to you RC - in a world where you didn't claim BP, how would you convince people about your alignment?
From a newbies perspective your playstyle seems very scummy and destructive, I for one doubted your alignment before you claimed BP.

I think the first part of this question is actually good. If you took away the BP, I think that this would be a very different game with RadCow. That being said, we have BP, and he himself says its confirmed. Why consider it? Seems like it's a diversionary thing to me.

Wheme if scum
First off, let's look at his entrance.
We have an immediate push on RC. However, the reasoning is minimal at best, and the read is extremely weak. Immediately after RC claims BP, Wheme says he'll sheep him. Almost too quickly .. Then he posts that a CC should happen. I find it weird that someone who scum read RC would immediately say he'll sheep him before asking for CC's. It seems to me like that read was completely fabricated. Almost to discredit himself? Then he can say he had wrong reads, and trusts RC's judgement to make the right decision (which you shouldn't do even if you're town). That way he shelves responsibility for a mis-lynch. And the rest of his posts just tunnel me. As much as it pains me, at least RC looks at other issues. Let's look at Wheme's thoughts ...
oh wait he has none cause he's sheeping RC

Anyways, in post 414, he states he thinks I am scum. Then in post 458 he says his vote was only due to sheeping RC. I feel like that's another scum slip. He knows I am town, so wants to dive off responsibility. Then in post 514 he says "hammer him".
A) Either he's incompetent townie
or
B) Scum who is impatient
Post 510 doesn't even make sense logically, he just seems to be kissing up.

Please someone tell me how Wheme could potentially be town

Are any of these proof that he's scum, or just an ineffectual town? Now of course, these actions DO seem like it would be more likely for scum than they would be for town, but this all just seems SO BAD for scum to do. Even someone totally inexperienced in this game would realize that these sorts of things are just making them asking to get lynched. This is why I feel like this read is weak; it's picking off the low hanging fruit and calling them obvious.

My own thoughts on UnaBombaH is that he's kind of sketch, but not really enough to overcome my townread of Cankles.

Weird cause you just asked me to power lynch the Cankles slot. I'll reserve judgement until I totally catch up.

[WhaleBarnicle]

whale if you scumread whymafia vote him please

No cause this is exactly why he suspects you as scum so hard. I'm catching up first, then thinking about it.

[WhaleBarnicle]

So in other words, if Cankles were scum with someone who replaced in, those two would have had no prior planning to lean on in order to try to save him from the noose in day 1?

I accidentally quoted the wrong post, but this idea of scum not being able to talk to each other is an interesting one. Generally in a newbie game I would expect town to replace more than scum cause I think people would be disappointed in getting a "boring" slot, but with how many people replaced it is likely that someone is scum in that list.

RC. What do you think about a KingCankles/Unabombah + GinsengTea/WhaleBarnicle team? I recognize pre-flips aren't really useful, but I've been suspicious of WB this whole day cycle, and I couldn't help but notice that

WB replaced in for GT during the height of pressure on KC during day 1.

He still has yet to answer my questions about why he didn't push KC harder when he started "losing his lynch"... and of course it stands to reason that scum bussing a teammate would not object to that teammate's wagon losing traction in the later stages of the day.

Please, I feel as if I started most of that pressure on him. You did say I lost MY lynch, not that I stayed on someone else's broken wagon. Also thinking so hard of lynching me for not answering when I'm about to probably get prodded by this point seems really opportunistic.

[WhaleBarnicle]

Okay, you're going to hate me for this Miles but I think the burden of proof is back on you. It's plausible that he took that long to answer, and the responses don't seem unreasonable. I look forward to watching your argument :p

Sorry to disappoint, but I'm not sure I have much of one. His defense is pretty impressive and I especially like that he immediately had a coherent direction to go after responding to my concerns.

UNVOTE: WhaleBarnicle

<333

[WhaleBarnicle]

So if Whale were to be lynched and he flips scum, is this where I start to look for the accomplice? Funnily enough, his strongest townread is the one guy I sort of suspected, even though it was mainly by proxy via WhyMafia suspicions. Note how Whale has to put something negative about him too, but doesn't find anything but "maybe too towny".
So now I have another possible scum-duo in my mind, it being Perse/Whale.

Well, I guess being cautious makes you scum here

Many players will obviously see this differently, but the way it seems to me (this slot being in focus), I feel like Whale is just hopping on the wagon.
I do not like how he really gives the explanation ready for Cankles, and then says its not enough of a reason.
I edited out the part where Whale explains why no-lynch on D1 is stupid, but then again, WHY did he deem it necessary to write it out? It had been already explained to Cankles, and everyone else, so it seems like an attempt to act helpful where no help was needed anymore.

I was trying to talk about from the perspective of scum and not one of a new player, which up to that point I felt people had been treating him as as opposed to a crafty scum slot.

Then he keeps belittling Cankles few arguments before placing his vote on him. And notice here,

HE PLACES THE L-1 VOTE

, and makes sure to jokingly point it out to avoid scummyness,

BUT HIDES IT IN THE MIDDLE OF A HUGE WALL OF TEXT.

And to make it even more confusing, he next votes for himself in the very same post, basically revoking the L-1

and then revoting in the next post without bringing up the L-1, now that he had a good chance to make sure everyone would notice it.

Also good to know I shouldn't actually expect people to read every word in a post

Here I found most value in my "research". Because Whale basically confirms the biggest reasons I had for scumreading WhyMafia. He feels like a "natural scum" who says his tone is just off, always gets pinned scum etc. But what I found interesting is that Whale states his case on WhyMafia so that he seems like Whales biggest scumread. Yet he votes for Cankles (me). Miles already pointed out how Whale dropped his case for my slot, so I'm not gonna repeat that. He also doesn't have a good question for his second big scumread, shouldn't he try to make WhyMafia speak and give some hard hitting questions?
So then what do we have here?
Scenario A: Whale is scum, WhyMafia is scum. So this would be called distancing, right? And if we really stop to think about it, this is exactly what he would want to do.
Say nothing positive about WhyMafia,

but don't vote him

.
Scenario B: Whale is scum, WhyMafia isn't. This would be Whale preparing his secondary wagon should Cankles survive the lynch, right? Voting towards the likely new wagon, but keeping his actions open for later.

I'm sort of leaning towards scenario B now, because I don't think Whale would be bussing his partner so eagerly D2. Unless it's a tactic WhyMafia discussed with him at night? Whale found his confidence quite suddenly..

Maybe it's a bit of a stretch. So yet again, I sort of see WhyMafia and Whale on different sides of a fence, the same way I see Whale and Miles.

One of the biggest reasons I voted for Cankles was to get him to talk. Sure I thought WhyMaf would be a good scum candidate too, but I could kill two birds with one stone with a vote to Cankles. Not my fault he still refused to talk.

This is a point I'll have to give to Whale: he said he townread Fykus and didn't take part in the wagon that got him lynched. Which would mean that [line]his partner[/line] scum [line]PROBABLY[/line] definitely did.

FTFY

And if I take that list and just paste it here, it says: PersephoneSidekick, King Cankles, Miles Edgeworth, RadiantCowbells, mhsmith0.
Three are confirmed town (myself to me, obv), and the other two are Perse (read my thoughts above) and Miles (read my thoughts above).
This actually warms my gut feeling of Perse potentially being a very GOOD scumplayer.

So it's scummy when I keep one eye on him being really good scum, but totally towny when you do the same thing?

Never reaching the end~
Letters I've written~
Never meaning to send~

Idk if you're doing that weird hidden message shit again, but I appreciate the song choice at least.

[WhaleBarnicle]

Are any of these proof that he's scum, or just an ineffectual town? Now of course, these actions DO seem like it would be more likely for scum than they would be for town, but this all just seems SO BAD for scum to do. Even someone totally inexperienced in this game would realize that these sorts of things are just making them asking to get lynched. This is why I feel like this read is weak; it's picking off the low hanging fruit and calling them obvious.

Is too scummy to be scum a thing though? Isn't that most of our basis on the scum read on Canckles?

To some extent, but to be honest his replacement isn't helping the case much at all.

[WhaleBarnicle]

People keep using "he" for me in posts and it's very distracting. It's weird; everybody got it right on day 1. Is it the obviously male lion in my avatar?

Well this is awkward. Sorry

[WhaleBarnicle]

What's going to happen if we mislynch today?
We have 7, takes 4 to lynch.
We go down to 6
Mafia kills town in night
We go down to 5, takes 3 to lynch. In that 5, there would be 2 mafia, so all three town would have to agree to even have the chance of a win. I don't like the sound of this.

I know we all have our thoughts on players here, but with how close to a knife's edge we are we all need to be really, REALLY careful about who we lynch today. Everyone (even you RadCow) needs to look at this with fresh eyes again and make sure we aren't barking up the wrong tree.

I'm going to bed for tonight, and tomorrow after I think a little bit more I'll probably place my vote. If the day ends before I can and I die at night, it's been fun guys.

[WhaleBarnicle]

Mind you if we do get this right, tomorrow we have 5 alive with only 1 mafia and 4 town (3 votes to lynch). Then, even if we mislynch we have some protection with an extra day and can still in theory pull a win.

Just some motivation for everyone!

[WhaleBarnicle]

I've been rather confbiasy in the past so I want to try to make a case for Whymafia so other people can independently judge it's merits.

Give me a bit before we go anywhere.

Awh and just when I was about to put him at L-1. I'll check back around 11pm EST

[WhaleBarnicle]

VOTE: WhyMafia

L-1

Una next based off of what I've seen so far.

[WhaleBarnicle]

Even if we miss with this one I'm feeling good about town's chances as I've thought about it more

[WhaleBarnicle]

what.

That can only mean one of three options:
1) RadCow is telling the truth about BP and was targeted last night. Scum must have not trusted that claim though because why the hell would they waste a night kill on him?
2) RadCow is actually doctor (He could have claimed BP knowing that there would be no CC since he is the doctor) to avoid him getting killed in the night and correctly saved who was targeted. If this is the case, who did you save RadCow? That person is now confirmed town.

I can't see scum just passing up the opportunity to at least try for a night kill. That just wouldn't benefit them at all, right? I don't think the possible confusion it could cause town would be worth the extra person they have for voting.

[WhaleBarnicle]

And to be honest I'm a little surprised I'm still alive.

[WhaleBarnicle]

And to be honest I'm a little surprised I'm still alive.

why would anyone have shot you last night

Well, I figured they wouldn't waste a shot on you last night if you are one shot BP.
Una is top suspicion for most people right now so I doubt that they would kill them.
Miles seems town to me, so I guess he could have been a candidate to kill
Peri's name has been thrown around some as a potential to be scum, which I'm sure actual scum would want to save as diversion worst came to worst
Wheme made the hammer vote with pretty much no justification, so that's naturally going to cause some suspicion and give scum a chance to hide

And then there's me who nobody is really suspecting after my "comeback posts" as someone said. Seemed like with me out of the picture that was one less person that was probable to be town in the mix for people to use for PoE.


What I didn't realize is that we still need to lynch scum today in order not to lose right? In that case losing your BP is actually useful for them as a backup plan in case we do manage to catch them today.

[WhaleBarnicle]

I have 3 townreads and 2 null-scum reads.

I'm more interested in this though. Since this is MYLO why not just come right out and say them? (Genuine question from a newbie)

[WhaleBarnicle]

Wheme you're on here, what say you about last night? Why shouldn't we all think its you, the person who so gleefully dropped the hammer with very little reason?

[WhaleBarnicle]

With how many people we have left, I feel like scum would sure as hell not be putting themselves out there. Even if one of them gets caught, then they still have a NK and one more scum for tomorrow. They're going to be laying low, probably not instigating a ton of stuff. Or at least one of them will be. Wheme is acting scummy for sure, but I'm not convinced it's actually coming from scum.

[WhaleBarnicle]

Hell, if I follow my own advice in that last post, I'd say that the person who seems the most town to me would actually be scum. RadCow is conf. town so that's out of the question, but other than that Perse actually seems like the next runner up for good town two shoes over there. I don't have a case other than that though honestly, so I may as well go along with Perse being conf. town as well. But the rest of everybody, I can't figure out who is scum and who would even be a scum team together. I still think that Una is the most suspicious probably, but I'm lost as to who their partner would be.

[WhaleBarnicle]

Wheme just because I'm not convinced you aren't scum doesn't mean that I'm not annoyed by how little you are contributing >.>

[WhaleBarnicle]

*not convinced you ARE scum

[WhaleBarnicle]

you are trying very hard to hide your true reads, and that doesnt feel good in this gamestate.

VOTE: Una

How's that for trying to hide my reads?

[WhaleBarnicle]

@RadCow: so who do you suggest and why? For now the vote stays on

[WhaleBarnicle]

Gg scum. I was starting to think it might have been Peri but I just didn't have the case for it by the end. Also didn't den think about scum quick hammering like that so that's on me guys. Off to the queue again!