Geriatric Players Club

[Korts]

This thread is for organizing games using the following "geriatric" ruleset for restricting posting frequency:

Spoiler: Geriatric Rules

This game is played under a Geriatric ruleset. This means that posting frequency is restricted as follows:

1. Every player is allowed a maximum of 10 posts in a 24 hour period. In the 24 hour period immediately preceding a deadline, players are allowed a maximum of 15 posts. The definition of a 24 hour period must be provided by the moderator.
   
2. Every player starts with a reserve of 20 additional posts. Any posts above the daily limit are subtracted from this reserve.
   
3. Players who deplete their reserve will receive a warning. Any further infractions after that will incur mod punishment.
   
4. If a player has hit the daily limit and depleted their reserve, they are allowed
   one
   naked vote change per in-game Day.

The following are general posting guidelines for Geriatric games:

Spoiler: Posting Guidelines

The following are guidelines for playing within the restrictions of a Geriatric ruleset (and generally), and are designed to reduce the pace and improve comprehensibility.

• Know how to let off the gas. Momentum is important, but this is not a race. This is a game of cooperation - make sure you don't leave anyone behind.
  
• Don't forget you're always speaking to everyone. One-on-one conflicts have their place, but they can quickly take over a thread - and nobody is interested in spectating five pages of others arguing. You don't need to have the last word - if you're stuck making the same arguments to the same people, let the thread breathe and give others a chance to weigh in.
  
• Compose your thoughts. Before submitting a post, reread yourself and cut, edit, and format your message. Make sure your point is clear, and highlight any arguments you make. For example, distinguish separate subjects with expandable spoilers or area tags.
  
• As an overly general rule, any post that is shorter than three sentences is too short, and any post that doesn't fit on a single computer screen is too long.

Currently, the following players have expressed interest in playing under a geriatric post-restricted ruleset:

Spoiler: Players

• RayFrost
  
• chamber
  
• wgeurts
  
• Grendel
  
• hitogoroshi
  
• Sunlit Diamond
  
• SpyreX
  
• Aristophanes
  
• Papa Zito
  
• Thestatusquo
  
• AxleGreaser
  
• Human Sequencer
  
• Errantparabola
  
• Untrod Tripod
  
• Kmd4390
  
• Ellibereth
  
• Korts
  
• Porkens
  
• Aeronaut
  
• Fishythefish
  
• Kison
  
• Ectomancer
  
• Napoleon III
  
• CooLDoG
  
• Porochaz
  
• Gödel
  
• insanity018
  
• MagnaofIllusion
  
• Kublai Khan
  
• Radja
  
• Gustavo
  
• tn5421
  
• Maruchan
  
• Ginngie
  
• AnonymousGhost
  
• Pine
  
• MichelSableheart

The following people have volunteered their services as replacement only:

• Mathdino

The following people have volunteered their services as moderator:

• Korts
  
• AnonymousGhost

Spoiler: Original OP

Hi.

Years ago, before I had a job, I used to love playing this game all the time. Now, every time I try to get back into it, I am immediately reminded that this is the way it is now. Maybe this is how it always was? I remember holding the top spot for the most posts in a day for a short while in my first year here, and it made me so happy. Now I question whether that kind of activity ever did me any good.

Yes, we used to have horrible spamfests sometimes too. We also had plenty of snoozers, sure. But I would much rather snooze than struggle to breathe.

So this thread here is for the oldsters (and sure, the youngsters, too, if they can slow the fuck down for once) to congregate and organize for some good old-fashioned slow-paced deliberation. If you're tired of the spastic screamfests kids throw these days, and you want to relive game the way it used to be played - with a sense of measure and decency that is lost to this new breed - post here, and we'll figure it out.

Now, get off my lawn.

Kids These Days:

• Transcend
• rb
• RadiantCowbells
• Lil Uzi Vert
• Drealmerz7
• Gamma Emerald
• gerryoat
• Boonskiies
• Creature
• Titus
• Mulch

[Korts]

So, where does one go for a comfortably paced game nowadays? Is the micro queue the only hope I have of not waking up to 20 pages every single day?

[Korts]

We hang together and keep away from signups with hyperposters is what this thread proposes.

[Korts]

I have signed up for Umlaut's hydra-free micro and Alchemist's mini normal, I hope you join me in fostering a reasonably paced experience.

Also, please alert me if you spot any hyperactive youngsters on the current player lists (rb, Transcend, and Draynth so far for Umlaut, and myko, Transcend, and kraska for Alchemist's game). I have only done a quick activity check of the latest games they played - no red flags popped up, but I didn't do a very thorough job either.

[Korts]

Thanks for the heads up! I recused myself from Alchemist's game, then. I hope I can handle Transcend in a micro environment at least, as long as no other catalysts join the game.

[Korts]

I have been alerted by PM that rb fits the description of catalyst. Therefore I have recused myself from the micro as well.

Maybe the next round of signups, I guess.

[Korts]

I have added a running list of Kids These Days to the OP. Feel free to suggest any additions.

[Korts]

Alisae, the intention is certainly not for this to become a witch hunt. I deliberately try to avoid judgmental language (aside from the grumpy oldster speak, which is meant to be tongue-in-cheek), as I do not think there is an inherent problem with hyperposting. I am just physically unable to keep up with games where it happens. I do not want to demonize (nor do I want anyone else to demonize) the people who play this way, I simply want to avoid them - and for that, I need to know who to avoid.

I will not be adding your name to the list, as you said you are trying to cut back. The list is for people who are not known to slow down for others.

[Korts]

I'm running a normal with global post restrictions to keep the postcount down if anyone in this group is interested in playing.

Nice, thanks for the tip! Do you accept pre-ins, or can you bump this when you go into sign-ups?

[Korts]

Mulch, I don't think you get this thread or the complaints some of us have.

it's encouraging mass numbers to avoid certain people

If certain people are making the game unenjoyable for mass numbers, shouldn't they be avoided? (And I don't even think we're talking about mass numbers, it's only somewhere around a dozen people who have indicated, either in the original thread or this one, their inability to keep up with hyperposting. This thread is for those dozen people.)

There should not be a group of players that globally blacklist people. It alienates them and is a form of bullying. It's not complicated. It's bad for site reputation as well.

It's unfortunate that this is taken as bullying, when the intention is for everyone to be able to play in an enjoyable way. Some playstyles are incompatible with others, and that cannot be changed - what can be done, however, is for people to avoid signups with conflicting playstyles. I don't want to call out or stigmatize anyone, but I don't see a solution for avoiding a specific playstyle without naming the players implementing it.

If it wasn't complicated, there wouldn't have been a 22 page thread about the issue. As for site reputation, well, I'm not sure how the hyperposting epidemic impacts it, but I doubt this hurts it any more.

In response to the bolded: YES. I think it's also shit for people to try and only play with a certain type of player.

This is where I struggle not to let a "fuck you" go. I do not only want to play with a single type of player. That is a complete misunderstanding. I just want to avoid a single type of playstyle that is making me incapable of keeping up with the game.

Also, if your answer to the complaints against hyperposting is "suck it up," then either you are not listening, or you're incapable of empathizing, or you don't understand the strain it puts on the game through lagging player slots, or on the replacement queue through people who give up the game of constant catch-up. Whichever the case, fuck you : )

Gamma Emerald has been struck from the list in accordance with post 28. Thanks for the willingness to slow down

[Korts]

Titus has been added on Gamma's recommendation.

Mulch has been added based on a quick review of Large Normal 205 (124 pages, Night 1), where he far surpasses Transcend and LUV, themselves prominent Kids These Days, to be the undisputed top poster.

[Korts]

But the thing is, apart from if you're making a well-developed case, I despise reading walls that are created solely to just reply to things they missed. I would much rather have them break it up into several posts. Or sometimes I want to add something to my 1-2 liner and post another comment. I don't see how posting less frequently with bigger posts is more relaxing than posting quickly. They require equal amount of analysis and take equal amounts of time to make a reply. Unless I'm misinterpreting all of this

I think much of the readability of wallposts depends on formatting, which is why I like to use collapsible spoilers, lists, dividers, and headers. Also short paragraphs are better than long paragraphs, but variation in length is also important. The visual of a good wallpost has a transparent structure and is easily parsed.

I put thought into every post, especially when I have to react to five pages of sudden buildup all at once. I like taking care to communicate my position clearly.

[Korts]

I'll collect a list of names and come up with a way forward this weekend, probs.

[Korts]

I think this conversation belongs in another thread.

Anyway, here's a list of people who have indicated an interest in a geriatric game in this thread (I will scan the original hyperposting thread for more names later, possibly):

• RayFrost
  
• chamber
  
• wgeurts
  
• Grendel
  
• hitogoroshi
  
• Sunlit Diamond
  
• SpyreX (?)
  
• Aristophanes (?)
  
• Papa Zito
  
• Thestatusquo
  
• AxleGreaser
  
• Human Sequencer

If I include myself, that is 12 players. I am sending a group PM to confirm everyone's interest and availability. Anyone who is interested but wasn't included in this list is welcome to post /in in this thread - if we get more than a Mini's worth of players, we can split them up into two Micros. If that's the case, I will be happy to mod the one I'm not playing in.

[Korts]

you missed me there buddy-o

Fixed, thanks. I'll skip the confirmation PM for you, since you just posted here.

[Korts]

Korts I would love to help with Modding

Thanks, noted. I'm hoping to create a unified Geriatric ruleset that defines posting frequency and such - I will post a first draft soon.

[Korts]

I'm curious what you mean by post restrictions. If it's just along the lines of "no hyperposting" that's fine, if it's similar to what tsq posted in that other thread then that's a different animal.

My initial thought is something like 50 posts per day during the first week of Day 1, and 25 posts per day after that. Not sure about enforcement yet - immediate force replacement is probably harsh, but three strikes before replacement, maybe?

[Korts]

If you think that's lenient, that tells me I should be stricter maybe?

As for punishment, I'm not sure I really want in-game consequences, because that would punish the entire faction and/or mess with the balance.

[Korts]

Checking RC's currently running post-restricted game, the cap is actually on posts per game day - 100 for D1, 50 for D2 onwards (and up to 20 posts can be carried over). With a 14d D1 deadline and a 10d for the rest, that amounts to 7 posts per day for D1 and 5 for the rest.

I would prefer to limit according to RL days, going by my own experience of waking up each morning and counting the number of pages I have to catch up with. The 25 per day per player general limit is built on the idea that no single player will be able to post more than a page worth of posts. That limit is raised to 50 for the first RL week of D1 to facilitate the early game development.

So going by RC's numbers, I would probably say 10 posts per day for the first week, then 5 per day. And to have some leeway, everyone has a reserve of 20 posts for the entire game, and any posts above the daily limit are deducted from that.

Hm?

[Korts]

Okay, 10 it is. Is it better for it to be 10 across the board, or is there value in the 10/5 system I proposed?

hito, what penalties were you using? Was it only instadeath?

[Korts]

It's more like temporarily raising the limit for the early game phase.

[Korts]

Early game is short on information, more interactions help kickstart the game, a chance to goof off a bit before the harsher limit kicks in, that kinda thing

[Korts]

This is the first draft of a guideline I'm thinking of appending.

1. Don't push the pace when it doesn't need to be pushed.
   If you don't let off the gas, you'll drive the game off the cliff.
   
2. Don't forget: you're always speaking to everyone.
   Every personal conflict you resolve is observed by a chorus of silent judgment, each waiting for their turn to let it out.
   
3. Let them let it out.
   Give people room to speak, and you'll get so much more out of them than if you strangle each other with words.
   
4. Make your point.
   You're trying to get your message in the mix. It doesn't have to be an illegible wallpost - cutting, editing and formatting go a long way. Practice them.

[Korts]

The point is something like - don't say something just because you can. Keep some cards to your vest. Think your engagements over with a strategic mind.

[Korts]

2. I don't get what this means. Do you mean that when you speak to one player you should assume you'll be judged on it in the future and therefore be mindful of what you say or otherwise it'll eventually be taken advantage of??

Partly that, sure. But also just don't get lost in extended one-on-one arguments, because the whole town is watching, and most probably nobody is interested in five pages of back-and-forth.

As for 1 and 3, it's a personal judgment thing I guess. There is no clear universal stopping point, but the point is not to respond to everything immediately, and to let everyone reflect on current issues before moving on to the next.

[Korts]

Geriatric Rules

This game is played under a Geriatric ruleset. This means that posting frequency is restricted as follows:

1. Every player is allowed a maximum of 10 posts in a 24 hour period. In the 24 hour period immediately preceding a deadline, players are allowed a maximum of 15 posts. The definition of a 24 hour period must be provided by the moderator.
   
2. Every player starts with a reserve of 20 additional posts. Any posts above the daily limit are subtracted from this reserve.
   
3. Players who deplete their reserve will receive a warning. Any further infractions after that will incur a modkill.
   
4. If a player has hit the daily limit and depleted their reserve, they are allowed
   one
   naked vote change per in-game Day.

Posting Guidelines

The following are guidelines for playing within the restrictions of a Geriatric ruleset (and generally), and are designed to reduce the pace and improve comprehensibility.

• Know how to let off the gas. Momentum is important, but this is not a race. This is a game of cooperation - make sure you don't leave anyone behind.
  
• Don't forget you're always speaking to everyone. One-on-one conflicts have their place, but they can quickly take over a thread - and nobody is interested in spectating five pages of others arguing. You don't need to have the last word - if you're stuck making the same arguments to the same people, let the thread breathe and give others a chance to weigh in.
  
• Compose your thoughts. Before submitting a post, reread yourself and cut, edit, and format your message. Make sure your point is clear, and highlight any arguments you make. For example, distinguish separate subjects with expandable spoilers or area tags.
  
• As an overly general rule, any post that is shorter than three sentences is too short, and any post that doesn't fit on a single computer screen is too long.

General Rules

[Korts]

Fair question, Ari, but considering the post restriction is only a daily limit, I don't think there should be a lot of allowance. It's not that hard to just wait it out until next morning.

Then again, I guess there can be quick momentum shifts when it would be important, so maybe something like "If a player has hit the daily limit and depleted their reserve, they are allowed one naked vote change per in-game Day."

You need to define what 24 hours is.

Defining it by a "replenishment votecount" once every 24-ish hours has the advantage of being easiest to maintain for the mod and check for everyone else. It has the disadvantage of not being 24 hours exactly. It also requires the moderator to be able to post a VC around the same time every day. Defining it by a consistent time makes it easiest to remember and means that the bank can be retroactively calculated even if the mod is truant for a bit. But doing the VC is harder because you need to finish out the tally in the middle of the VC. It's even worse if you fall multiple days behind. There's also defining it by day start every day, which lets you ensure the first 24 hours of gametime follow the rules but makes it a bit harder to remember when "midnight" is because it keeps changing.

Having run this myself, I think the first one is the best option personally, because it really does make the VC's easier. But it does mean that the game freezes and dies if the mod is lazy.

I also do still think some allowance should be made <24 hours from deadline, whether it's eliminating the limit or just giving more posts.

These are good points, hito, thanks. I amended the rule to include a raised pre-deadline 15 post limit. As for the definition of a 24-hour period, I would probably go with the first option as well, just because of the maintenance benefits, but I don't want the ruleset to micromanage the moderation, so I added the following instead: "The definition of a 24 hour period must be provided by the moderator."

[Korts]

Hmmm.

It looks like RC has left the site.

Is there anyone else who would like to help run these games? Alisae and I will most likely be running a Micro and Mini, respectively, with the current player list split between them as pre-ins, and I would like to have someone co-mod both games (or two people co-mod one each).

[Korts]

Thanks for the help, guys! That comes down to one co-mod for each game, then

[Korts]

Is there an estimate for when these games would be happening?

I will get the ball rolling this weekend. I still hope to enter sign-ups by the end of November.

[Korts]

Okay okay so I meant to say this weekend. I started writing up the setup and role PMs and everything for the Mini. I'll be done with that sometime next week, and moving on to the review and sign-up process.

Alisae, have you started panning out the Micro?

[Korts]

Headcount coming soon.

[Korts]

Sorry for the delay. The playerlist has been updated. Sorry I missed you, Kmd!

I have removed RC from the modlist, and added Gurgi! <3

Anyway, we are slowly but surely moving on from the pre-pre-in phase to the pre-in phase, which means I need more definite commitment from the mods. Current headcount is 21. Micro pre-in limit is 2/3 of the playerbase, which is 6 at most. Mini Theme limit is half, rounded down - again, maximum 6. Normal and Open limits are pending questions, but I imagine it's similar. That means we're gonna need a 4th mod. Anyone interested?

I think in terms of starting the sign-ups and the games simultaneously, the best would be to spread across the queues. So one Micro, one Mini Normal, one Mini Theme, and one Open would be the games to be run.

I'm planning on running a 13p retirement community theme, so that leaves the Micro, the Normal, and the Open. Gurgi, Alisae?

[Korts]

Shea, I agree completely. In the long term, I'd like to see large games like this, but first I'd like to see if it works on a small scale. Probably for large games the post count restriction would have to be stricter (at least in the beginning) for the game to keep a similar pace.

Okay, Alisae - my game can go in the normal queue as well, its theme doesn't define the setup. You can do the Theme.

Hi Ecto!

[Korts]

Yeah, early December is looking likely.

What is hidden alt?

[Korts]

Ah, cool.

[Korts]

Okay, Gurgi is modding a 9p Grey Flag Nightless, so I'm officially opening pre-in signups. We have 6 pre-in slots for all 3 games. Take your pick:

Lord Gurgi - 9p Micro Open Grey Flag Nightless - (4/6):

Korts
RayFrost
xRECKONERx
Magister Ludi

Alisae - 13p Mini Theme - (3/6):

SEND PM, NO IN-THREAD PRE-INS ACCEPTED

Korts - 13p Mini Normal - (6/6) - FULL

Thestatusquo
Kmd4390
hitogoroshi
Fishythefish
Ectomancer
Kison

[Korts]

This is mostly because hidden alts are a thing.

Fair enough, I have edited the post.

Shea added.

[Korts]

Thanks, post updated.

I have sent out notification PMs.

[Korts]

in

I put you down for Gurgi.

/out apologies

Okay

Guys can you clarify this spectate thing? Do you want me to send you a link to the game when it's up, or is it something more official than that?

[Korts]

I will mull it over.

[Korts]

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope your game goes well. If there's only enough demand for two games, that's the level of appeal we have. If we only run these once or twice a year, that would suit me very well.

[Korts]

By the way, I will be entering the queue this week, after I clean up my setup notes and talk with Nexus. Note that pending list mod approval, I intend to run a Deep South day-night mechanic which would ensure continuous play without closing the thread for nights.

[Korts]

Of course, that's awesome!

[Korts]

I hereby authorize you to create the wiki page

[Korts]

Done.

Looks pretty great, thanks!

[Korts]

According to the normal queue OP:

Moderator queue

Mini Normal
Needing Review:

TwoInAMillion
schadd_
northsidegal
Gödel
Archwing
Srceenplay
korts

So it looks like the game will not reach sign-ups until mid- to late January I expect.

[Korts]

The fuck is your problem still, Mulch? Go the fuck away.

[Korts]

Mulch, have you ever considered that

you're

the asshole?

[Korts]

Like, seriously, let's break down the timeline.

0. You actively (very, very actively) participate in a site meta that forces a bunch of people out of the game - not intentionally, of course, but by nature of sheer tempo.
1. When the people who were forced out of the game start a conversation about it, you tell them to suck it up and join or die.
2. When a solution is proposed, you keep complaining that it will draw away from the player base (even though a fair share of players who play under this ruleset have explicitly said that they wouldn't be playing otherwise) and that it will drive people away from the site (????)
3. When the solution is implemented, and everyone agrees that it is working as intended, you still continue to attack it.

From the beginning of the development of this ruleset, it has been made clear that this would be implemented in only a small portion of games, and most games will still be free to become a spamfest. In the past month, two games have started with this ruleset, and one more is in development. Why don't you go count how many games have started without it? Why don't you go do that instead of continuing to post here?

Everyone else, including those players who don't actually want to play such a slow game, agrees that this is a fine thing to have, even if they had some concerns while it was under development. You're the only asshole still being an asshole.

Why don't you go the fuck away?

[Korts]

I want to clarify that I don't feel attacked by Mulch simply existing. I feel attacked by being attacked.

That said, I apologize for any harsh words, Mulch. I respectfully ask that you not respond in any way whatsoever. I hope you recognize that you have no business in this thread, and will not be disrupting it any further.

[Korts]

I assume Transcend is talking about my reaction to Mulch, and just doesn't want to name me so that I don't respond. I will respond anyway.

Yes, I was an asshole. So was Mulch. I have apologized to the best of my ability for any offense, but I do not feel that I was wrong. I am sure Mulch remains unconvinced as well, and that's that.

What Mulch seems to be proposing is that there is no place for a slower paced game on MS, and I fundamentally disagree. I will happily fight for the right to post only twice a day, and to always have a place to do it on this forum, but this is not the thread for that argument.

If you feel that I shut down worthwhile discussion, feel free to open another MD thread, or even a Site Ideas petition to ban the Geriatric ruleset. You do you. And until I'm banned for doing so, I will continue to do me.

[Korts]

After reviews, my setup has been expanded from 13p to 15p. The additional pre-in slot is filled by roflcopter.

[Korts]

Noted, I will send you a PM as soon as we get to sign-ups.

[Korts]

The list was just an initial attempt to solve the issue for those who don't want to participate in fast games. It was a bad attempt that came from a place of frustration and unintentionally vilified hyperposters, and was thus quickly replaced by a more constructive approach that focuses on providing an environment for slow players.

I would personally welcome anyone whose name is on this initial list to join my Geriatric game, as long as they respect the post frequency restrictions. Except Mulch, because after his contributions to the discussion, I wouldn't trust him to join in good faith.

[Korts]

I see that you consider any criticism of your way of play bad faith

Nah just yours

[Korts]

It's more about you being obtuse and disrespectful, rehashing the same unfounded arguments and refusing to acknowledge any counterpoints, and insisting on shitting up this thread when others have been made for you to post your complaints in.

[Korts]

I could be interested in coming out of retirement for a geriatric game or two.

i thought you got clean poro now here we are debating if we should chase the dragon once more truly 2018 is a year of mistakes

if yall were to have a geriatric game run would you be interested in an open say like white flag or a mini-normal?

Absolutely. Gurgi is running a Grey Flag right now, and I'm gonna finish up my Mini setup for the review board this weekend, so that fits right in.

I'll also update the OP with new names and shit over the weekend. Thanks to everyone who expressed their interest!

[Korts]

Updated the OP with new names. If I missed anyone, let me know!

Also, the reviews on my setup are wrapping up. Updates soon, and I will also send a PM to everyone who pre-inned or expressed interest as soon as sign-ups start.

[Korts]

FYI, reviews are complete, and sign-ups will begin after Team Mafia has completed.

[Korts]

You thought I was going to flake on this, didn't you?

[Korts]

I'd like to mod a large theme under the geriatric rules (probably 15ish players)

coolcoolcool

[Korts]

MagnaofIllusion has been added to the player list in OP.

FYI Team Mafia games seem to be wrapping up soon, and my game will finally be starting sign-ups when they do, so keep your eyes peeled.

[Korts]

Done and done.

[Korts]

I have received a message from Nexus that Team Mafia is officially finished, so pre-in confirmations and sign-up invitations for my game will finally be going out first thing tomorrow.

[Korts]

@AG, awesome! Looking forward to it.

@Radja: welcome! I have added you to the OP.

[Korts]

I’m in for this.

I am interested in playing under this ruleset, if you'll have me.

/intrest in geriatric

I think my later-games are better than my earlier-games where I was always the most prolific poster.

I also try to condense my quotes to oen post instead of back to back posts now. so that helps

I've added you to the list in the OP, thanks!

[Korts]

Large Normal 212: Korts' Geriatrics is in need of a replacement. Day 1, 18 pages, deadline on the 28th of May. Please PM me if you're interested.

[Korts]

Yes, but if you're interested, I can put you as no. 2 on the replacement list.

[Korts]

Okay, thanks! I'll keep you in mind, but I won't add you to the list then.

[Korts]

I've added the three of you to the list in the OP.

AnonymousGhost, was that the list you meant, or are you interested in signing up for the Large Normal 212 replacement list as well?

[Korts]

Cool, I'll put you on the list in the OP.

[Korts]

I need two replacements for my game. PM me for details.

[Korts]

I need two replacements for my game. PM me for details.

Make that four replacements.