Midsummer Night's Revelry - [Game Over]

[ActionDan]

Hi.

Re: giga

I think waiting for EoD to choose pairings or not is not a huge deal either way. Early pairings, if formed organically enough, could limit scum's options and potentially force a scum/scum pairing. I don't have much hope for a scum gentleman lynch at the end of pre-dance regardless of which option is chosen.

Hebichan choosing pairings makes sense, but also sucks the fun out of it, frankly. I do think that's the best way to actually get a scum lynch before dance phase though.

I'm pretty sure I'd have been happy to partner up with you, but that caveat about no hood talk is a no go, since hoods are fun

---

lots of cuts

[ActionDan]

I don't agree to scorched earth: it's much more likely to kill town than scum since all scum ladies will find a way to accept anything that comes their way and scum gentlemen can at the very least attempt to ask hebichan or potentionally their scum partner or honestly just work the entire floor. In any case the scum gentleman/ladies are going to have a much much easier time of staying alive than their counterparts. That's not even taking into account apathy, which barely a day into this game is affecting me when I come back to the thread and see 10 pages filled with metric tons of bullshit. Any town that signs up for a scorched earth plan that feels apathetic to the game will find appeal in just dying. It's exactly the same as if town suicides early if they feel they got stuck with a scum partner. And lastly, I see no appeal in getting scum "off balance" by forcing them to take their kill early. They shoot a mostly random town/town pair and the town is no better off for it.

I can't read most of you for shit. Maxous and GBT are town reads. Everyone else is a work in progress

[ActionDan]

I've determined I can't read people who twitter post and give Trump a run for his money. There are a couple people who don't do this that I don't have confident reads on either. (either strong or weak one way or the other)

But I can read Priscila and P_A and I'm pretty sure they are both town.

I think Priscila's various critiques of P_A's posts are, bluntly, over the top, but the change in opinion from post 378 to 469 is not something scum motivated. It's purely a reaction to P_A exerting pressure (and minimal at that) on Priscila but scum are not inclined to turn on a dime from something like that as Priscila did. Secondly, behavior that existed previously that earned P_A a town read is suddenly redshifted into scum motivation (specifically the read on Berry). That's the kind of gross inconsistency that scum might omit in doing an about face but one where town would pry after donning new colored lenses.

P_A's town because her posts are logical, thoughtful, and free of anything I would consider scummy.

[ActionDan]

I'm coming around to Vecna being town. Posts 690 and 719 conveying the determination that other unpaired gentlemen are town would put scum in an awkward position of rendering themselves disposable. But more than that, it's also a genuine feeling as far as I can tell, and one which pervades not just posts like those but all others I've seen recently too.

---

I've been less than impressed by the back and forth between MariaR and Dunnstral as well as their "engagement" with others, which is both minimal and superficial. I am highly skeptical of Dunn's 824 because the first two sentences contradict each other, and to a lesser extent the last two parts do too, but more so I fail to see how someone about tied for most posts in the game was not invested in the game and only after this new found zeal is able to produce a reads list like 863 with little to say for it. For MariaR's part post 795 is a terrible reason to turn around a read, since as RC said, that's Non-alignment indicative and it's obviously so. It may be a stronger apology/overture/SOAP opera bullshit post but it's still quite in line with the rest.

---

No but in all seriousness, I'm p. sure Cabd is scum and his partnering with Alisae only makes me more certain, and a lot of his recent posts read more like "scum caught for the wrong reasons" as opposed to "town being wrongly accused".

I don't care if my reasons are wrong, if my read is right~~~

I don't see this. Nor do I really understand why you scum read him at all, but his responses to your recent posts have been reasonable and without undue pushback which is what I'd expect of someone who is "scum caught for the wrong reasons."

[ActionDan]

GBT, with regard to your observation in post 610 it's quite reasonable to raise eyebrows at. I did too. I think it was the only thing, or at least, the only somewhat important thing, I disagreed with in P_A's posts. I didn't make the jump to considering that scummy though and in the context of my overall holistic read I've compartmentalized it as a minor blot on her posting record.

---

Out of the remaining gentleman, I want to leave Key out. I don't find him explicitly scummy per se, but between posts 977 and 1350 the thoughts expressed are all tripping over each other. Examples abound: in 977 Key is convinced Dunn and MariaR slots are town but still casts doubt by both quoting a post of Dunn's to question its intent and also abdicating some responsibility for the read by wanting them to sort it out in the Pt; The read on Cabd meanders throughout both posts from scummy to maybe town to scummy again with the only new input being a scum read on A2 and an associative tell based on that which is not a sound one in any case; the scum read on A2 itself supposedly comes from the fact Key hadn't developed a town read on the slot but it's quite clear that it's pushback from A2 not town reading Key first and deciding that he should be the one to go.

On that last point I would agree with A2 that 977 and now imo 1350 don't contain evidence of scum hunting.

---

I will probably make a proposal later tonight. Of the unpaired girls other than hebichan, and of the girls in general, my strongest town reads are P_A and GBT, by far. I will probably propose to one of hebichan or P_A since both have expressed a desire for me to do so and GBT has other stronger feelings towards other gentlemen. I know Key is one of them but it's not my place to take away the responsibility for that decision from GBT. There's other things like Hebichan not liking Vecna and Priscila probably going to blow up on P_A if it happens but I'm not the type to meddle in these calls.

I also can bet that once I do propose, it will likely create a cascade effect and things may be going quicker than you'd think. So this is a warning and an advisement to air what you will soon.

cut. I strongly advise all unpaired girls to try and pair if possible. you can be choosy, but pair.

[ActionDan]

I thought about it here and there today, but I'm opting for the simpler game with confirmed town.

And so. With that.

May I have this moondance with you, Hebichan?

[ActionDan]

LLD's proposal strikes me as inherently pro-scum. I would presume that the majority of players to be removed would be town. The less players there are in the game, the less players scum need to pretend to scumhunt, the less possible spew, the less town we have to scumhunt and talk with. I agree that Hebichan should have some form of veto over pairs but I don't necessarily agree that she should have total authority over it. I personally would choose to parnter with Maxous but obviously I am on the wrong side.

Right now I feel that Mariar, Radiant, Maxous, ActionDan and penguin are probably all town. I don't know why I more or less agree with Vecna's reads, but I do - it is just gut. I think he might be town just for that, but it's not a good reason for a townread.

p-edit: I like maxous/giga priscilla/penguin dan/me and in that case it would leave vecna or key/mint which is meh either way and will probably get killed at some point.

I am fine with this.

What's amusing to me is that ActionDan's posts are actually easier to fake as scum and yet he is more townread. It is really too bad I didn't roll scum because I could be partnered with Hebi right now if I had and this game would be a cakewalk.

ActionDan is scum.

Considering the change of heart comes right after 1354 I can surmise that you dislike my choice to leave key out, and that's solely why you've changed your mind here. Do you think there are better reasons to have wanted to leave someone else out? If so, who should I have considered and why? Did you find my analysis in 1354 flawed, incorrect, or duplicitous? If so, how so?

[ActionDan]

hebi, did you not see my proposal?

[ActionDan]

Considering the change of heart comes right after 1354 I can surmise that you dislike my choice to leave key out, and that's solely why you've changed your mind here. Do you think there are better reasons to have wanted to leave someone else out? If so, who should I have considered and why? Did you find my analysis in 1354 flawed, incorrect, or duplicitous? If so, how so?

No, although the way you treated Key slot was sketchy. I think that your posts are empty and you are just playing the tune people want to hear. I didn't realize until 1354 and then your proposal to Hebichan was just incredibly scummy.

I feel completely unable to articulate myself right now, but essentially what I see in ActionDan is empty reasoning. He talks about me and Penguin in 608 but the there is nothing underneath the surface of his townreads on us - they are thin and propped up by what amounts to theory talk and poetry. The behavior he is reading into is pretty null but he's making it a townread. He is not talking through his reads, he is not looking into the players - he is just reciting pre-formed ideas about why they could be a certain alignment and making his read fit to that. Like in 957 he talks about dunn/mariar and it is just empty words that he does nothing with. Then he talks about Key and it is like, he is just forcing Key's behavior in a certain way and not even trying to make a read or understand Key, he doesn't even scumread them he just wants them to be left out. His proposal to Hebichan was scummy because it was like he always knew he was going to make it but he made a show of being unsure and trying to think through the benefits and disadvantages and his preference and such.

Idk I am not in the mental state for mafia these days.

I judged Key fairly and without prejudice even knowing he was a competitor for a dance spot. Contrary to what GBT is suggesting, I can see his posting through a town lens, as a very reactive townie, but there's a critical thinking gap far too large to ignore, and explainable by him simply being scum. He is decidedly the one that should be left out before the dance.

"Empty reasoning" is a rather empty buzzword even after your attempt to define it, but it's clear that you aren't outright invalidating the reasoning part. My town reads on you and P_A for example are were formed exactly as I said. "Thin", "Propped up", "Theory talk and poetry" I can translate to "succinct", "supported by", and "what was said in thread". I stand by those assessments still, and disagree that the material I used to make them was null. If our opinions on that disagree, it is because our judgement differs, and from what I have seen of yours, it is quite bad. You are still thinking GBT is fake. That's almost tragic.

I've looked at every player, though every lens, many times (which GBT, includes P_A). If I come to a conclusive read, I post it. There is a reason I have not yet posted one on A2/Cabd/MBC/LLD/Firebringer/Shiro; it is because I have not come to a strong conclusion. I feel no need to comment on any them yet. That also means 957 did have me extrapolate on a stronger read. Were I to have a vote, I would be voting Dunnstral. Mariah I don't townread, but I don't scum read as much as the only serious thing I consider scummy is her about face on Dunnstral which was unwarranted.

I find it hypocritical of you that you complain about me "not understanding key" or "forcing Key's behavior in a certain way", which I empathically have not, but even so, you ignore the possibility of him being scum because of it. As far as GBT is concerned I disagree that it's natural to call Dunn/MariaR a town pair and then let them decided in their Pt or the emergence of a scum read on A2 and subsequent reassignment of Cabd as scum. The latter of which is either completely reactive, or you know, fake.

Lastly, what you take for a big show is simply forethought. And for the record I was about 50/50 on Hebi or P_A.

[ActionDan]

Do you promise to be an active partner, or will you be complacent?

Active. Hoods are where I twitter post.

I think it's disgusting people equate the two though. It's site meta it seems, or what it's devolved into. It's cancerous and one of the reasons I've been trying to deliberately pace my posts and place an emphasis on quality over quantity.

[ActionDan]

Why would you be voting me?

In addition to the reasons listed in 957 I think your most recent GBT scum read comes out of no where and is manufactured especially with the reliance of trying to pair A2 and giga together, while the spam you continually litter the thread with takes on a malicious quality to me.

---

Actually it is your problem, Key. Or it will be in time if you don't leave the dance and more people that aren't myself or A2 stop ignoring/rationalizing your thought process. Please expand on why you think Cabd is scum, in fact try to approach this question again without tying your answer overmuch to A2.

---

P_A, it's well and good to encourage pairings, but what "stance" are you referring to exactly? benefits of pairing, or benefits of pairing with me or Key?

[ActionDan]

ike this is the most genuinely invested he's been, the most self-aware i've seen him (he's willing to leave himself out of the dance like) - i dont think this comes from his scum play.

Unless he is blind, it's obvious you were there to accept him with open arms. He isn't in danger and priscila effectively forced one or me/Vecna to get the boot with pairing with MBC. I'm pretty sure she knows that too.

I never put any stock into "Oh woe is me, I should leave the dance" because, hmm, when push comes to shove, look who's asking. That's happened with Priscila and now Key. Something like this isn't hard to fake as scum, and it's something anyone should read somebody as town for, no matter who they are. If there are independent reasons for reading them as town, go for it, but not this. You'll get burned.

Maxous, why do you think GBT is scum? Key may be which will leave that pairing as a ? for the rest of the game, but please explain the GBT scum read.

[ActionDan]

On today's menu:

Spoiler: Sweet and tasty

[ActionDan]

Maxous scumreads are shit loool

Probably the most genuine thing he's said in thread up until this point. This would suggest
A) Maxous is town
B) Priscila is town

The main reason you scumread me is because you think I'm 0% scumhunting. You don't even read my thoughts on the game and how i try to play the game.

If you're scum, you win, because I can't even fucking handle being pressured.

You're acting like if I'm town, you are townreading me now which is complete bullshit

Don't play with me again Ali if you're going to read me for dumb reasons

The main reason you scumread me is because you think I'm 0% scumhunting. You don't even read my thoughts on the game and how i try to play the game.

If you're scum, you win, because I can't even fucking handle being pressured.

My main concerns is your progression over me and that you're points on me is just you attempting to win a debate and not a genuine evaluation of those posts.

That's my thoughts on you and you should deal with it.

I disagree that it's natural to call Dunn/MariaR a town pair and then let them decided in their Pt or the emergence of a scum read on A2 and subsequent reassignment of Cabd as scum. The latter of which is either completely reactive, or you know, fake.

As far as I know, my thoughts are my thoughts and it's not my problem if you think it's fake.

These all feel real and are the purest examples of scumplaining I've seen in a while. This suggests A2 is town (yeah, I included my post in there, it's a a good baseline). To be sure, I need to recheck A2's longer case to make sure it makes sense again so as to preclude a bus but the evidence above is strong to me.

If my choice is Dan or Key, I'm not dancing.

Then don't. It could benefit town.

This is weaker, but it suggests MBC is town too. Other posts by key make me think so as well but they are even less inconclusive than this one.

---

Eulogy to the dead town: Very sad to see both of you go, and I especially feel bad about vecna since I thought it would be rather interchangeable which one of us paired with Hebi, since we thought along similar lines. A pity you guys didn't pair together, it would have been a fantastic town/town pairing to have around. At least you have each other in the grave.

[ActionDan]

VOTE: Dunnstral

It may as well be confirmation bias at this point, but Key's posts tiptoeing around the read of the pair by alternatively calling it town and not wanting to actually commit to a read in the same post is indicative that there's scum in the pair. There's nothing I feel more sure about. Happy to eat my own cake if I'm wrong

[ActionDan]

I ask people let me try to read Dunn a bit more before you all start to vote him but I really do think he's town right now he said he was gonna start "playing" in our pt so give it a bit of time.

VOTE: Ca2d

One of these are scum.

VOTE: Ca2d

One of these is scum. And it isn't Cabd.

This is a joke.

[ActionDan]

If you don't think there's scum in A2 and Cabd the only joke here is you~ Plus you're voting town so.

Why is there scum in A2 and Cabd? Which one would you guess to be scum?

[ActionDan]

VOTE: Ca2d

One of these is scum. And it isn't Cabd.

Both of you should take a time out until Shiro and LLD actually post in this thread.

[ActionDan]

misquote, was referring to RC/Firebringer but honestly it still works

[ActionDan]

Oh yeah
why is MariaR townreading Firebringer?

She isn't?

I thought I read 1691 as Maria telling RC that she townreads you?

She's speaking to me voting Dunnstral. She town reads Dunn.

For the record I neither scum read nor town read firebringer.

[ActionDan]

Welp, I'm so dead, and I'm wanting Dunn out super hard myself.

Goddamn it, you didn't have to leave here.

Basically town, lynch dunnstral.maria,

[ActionDan]

Here's an idea Priscila. Lynch Dunnstral first like every dead townie has wanted to do, then have fun lynching fire bringer, and fight it out with A2/Maxous and their pairings if the game isn't over then.

[ActionDan]

Here's an idea Priscila. Lynch Dunnstral first like every dead townie has wanted to do, then have fun lynching fire bringer, and fight it out with A2/Maxous and their pairings if the game isn't over then.

Yeah this kind of post is never going to make me want to town read you or work with you.

ActionDan you're pretty heavily tunneled on me my man

I don't know why me and mariar both voting a2 is cause for concern. Actually, have you taken a look at a2 at all? Our votes have merit

I'll address you both here.

Yeah I looked at A2, it was one of the first things I posted about. It's a town slot. Me and Hebichan strongly agree on that. There's plenty of evidence to support it.

Your votes are unexplained and thoughtless. Priscila has phenomenally bad judgement despite being a hell of a lot more articulate than you or MariaR and has shown barely any interest in "working with" anyone who have better. That's obvious enough.

[ActionDan]

There's plenty of evidence to support it.

Care to share? There's a good chance you're dead tonight if town

This post contains it

Also A2's original case about Key is indeed a case coming from town.

[ActionDan]

tbh I don't think anyone even considered or read my case on Keyen.
I just don't think
anyone cares.

I've read it 3ish times now. honestly

[ActionDan]

I need to sleep. I hope I have a peaceful death.

[ActionDan]

Key?

Keyen

Very likely Town flip though.

It's like a lurker day one lynch

I want know what you were thinking about the other unpaired gentleman (Me, Vecna, Priscila, Maxous) in between these two posts – general reads, and other thoughts you can remember

[ActionDan]

I expected us to die. Maxous/P_A dying instead suggests either scum think I'm solely more lynchable than Maxous/P_A pair together, or that that pair had better, stronger, more correct reads and ability to lynch them than me or hebichan. There's the injection of wifom, but I generally reject that value of that alone. I lean towards the former considering the later stages of Pre-dance where I remember my blood being called for.

Please think on my request

[ActionDan]

I townread Priscilla then. Didn't have a read on vecna but thought i would eventually. Maxous I townread but I can't remember what for. And you I thought were Town but I think it was just consensus everyone was saying you were Town, I disliked quite a few of your posts but I wrote it off as style differences.

I was more concerned with Giga dancing with someone at that point than the gentlemen, Giga was being extremely scummy imo and trying to hard too do Town things.

I also thought key would be useless Town like in last game with him where I think he protected scum all game.

If so, why in 572 did you suggest Key to go if at the least you didn't have a read on Vecna and thought key was town (if useless)? If you town read priscila why did you question both RC and Key about it in 498 and 534? If you town read priscila and scum read giga, why did you state that Priscila/giga was a good pair in 1270?

[ActionDan]

I was snowing my wife and then chose to kill her instead of having her defend me because....?

P_A's last read on you was "mild town depending on a subsequent reads list"; I would not call that "snowing" and I am interested in you giving an updated reads list, which you had not completed before

[ActionDan]

It was probably former but I don't think anyone wanted to lynch you?
Can you point to where this was?

The only people who suspected you in the last 10 pages of pre-dance were Priscilla, Giga (flipped town), RC (flipped town), and keyen (flipped scum). Absolutely nobody voiced any suspicion of you D1 that I could see.
Unlike you, I believe that if you're town the second theory is more likely to be correct. Max had a strong suspicion of Shirou, who I was starting to suspect anyway.

Basically yes, the voices of dissent started right about here. Overall there weren't that many, but they were by far the loudest at the time. Most are gone yes (including for this purpose the replaced out MBC), but I still think that they were there, without that much pushback aside from A2 simply wanting Key gone most (and well, Hebi picking me in the end of course) shows that I am wagon material.

It could also be that Shiro is scum and scum wanted to kill off a shiro voter. Ofc, that same logic would apply to firebringer voters too, which would make Cabd/A2 an obvious target (caveat being their alignments both being town)

I townread Priscilla then. Didn't have a read on vecna but thought i would eventually. Maxous I townread but I can't remember what for. And you I thought were Town but I think it was just consensus everyone was saying you were Town, I disliked quite a few of your posts but I wrote it off as style differences.

I was more concerned with Giga dancing with someone at that point than the gentlemen, Giga was being extremely scummy imo and trying to hard too do Town things.

I also thought key would be useless Town like in last game with him where I think he protected scum all game.

If so, why in 572 did you suggest Key to go if at the least you didn't have a read on Vecna and thought key was town (if useless)? If you town read priscila why did you question both RC and Key about it in 498 and 534? If you town read priscila and scum read giga, why did you state that Priscila/giga was a good pair in 1270?

Dan I am going to be honest here, I think ur just asking me stupid questions to look like your doing something.

Cause I swear I answered everyone of these questions.
But I'll answer anyways:

I thought key would be inactive and easily pocketed by any scum pair so leaving him seemed like best to me for pragmatic reasons which is why even though I tr him over vecna I thought vecna was more useful to keep.

I asked rc for his reasons tr Priscilla cause i was too and didn't have anything to put it to words beyond attitude.

And given my impression of priscilla I was thinking her paired with Giga would give least amount of chance of Giga pocketing her partner since i thought she was getting a partner anyways might as well be someone who blindly townread them.

I wouldn't say they are "stupid questions" when they elucidate your thought process. Speaking of:

I don't think it's a particularly town thought process to immediately recommend someone you townread (useless, easily pocketed or otherwise) to die off over a person you don't have a read on besides thinking you'd be certain to get one later. If I were in that situation I would actually try and bother to try and read Vecna at that point before posting "Key?" in that instance, since at the very least that would be a disservice to Key if you thought he was town. Especially since when conversing with RC there he also suggested Cabd as his #2 for explicitly being scummy and you immediately voiced your disapproval by claiming he was town. Sort of would make people get the wrong idea about why you'd post key in that instance.

I don't buy that you asked RC about his townread of Priscila to give words to your feeling of Priscila. The exchange reads more as a desire to judge RC by his answer. Only a little bit later, you asked Key the same question, which granted, it deserved to be asked of him then imo, but I highly doubt you would have done so for the same reason.

That last part is understandable

---

Dunnstral I have the capability to not death tunnel with a one-track mind, the thing you accused me of doing last phase. I haven't stopped thinking you're scum. I spent most of the game doing so, and I hope players in the game don't forget that easily. I haven't been going around saying you're town, have I?

[ActionDan]

I have checked here occasionally today but there's been almost nothing that bothers saying.

VOTE: Firebringer

Since Cabd is playing around with numbers in 2117, without the reads post becoming corporeal yet, I will as well.

I have since stopped caring about what order the Firebringer/Shiro and Dunnstral/Maria lynches go down. Just that they ought to.

Although I rate Cabd higher up the scum scale slide than either Priscila or Assemble (or really anyone not named Dunnstal or Firebringer), and I'm as close to 100% sure that A2 is as town as you can get without being the IC.

If the pairs end up Me/Hebi, Cabd/A2, and Priscila/Assemble, whether there is 1 or even 2 scum still left, I am still very comfortable with that.

Time is indeed running out and I want to save a chunk for whatever scenario befalls the last two pair lynchings if it gets there. It's more important than now.

Pedit: I don't trust anyone in this game's gut for shit. Especially people where that's basically all they have to their name

[ActionDan]

Like I'm being a major wuss cause I get why I'm not tr but I don't think I should be sr so it's a weird mix of "how dare you sr me" but like gah
Pedit pocketing me with Raman gifs work 99% of the time

Dancing gifs cause me to be pocketed

Can't really be pocketed if you're already scum

Which this desperate push is simply confirming

[ActionDan]

I'm the scummiest now Dunnstral?

How easy it is for you to change gears and see what shit hits the fan

Last time it was Priscila, and before that, A2.

Without reason. Without the semblance of any kind of sanity or actual thought. Just reactive. A little bit of deja vu isn't it this game.

[ActionDan]

Which mean town wins, you aren't wrong.

[ActionDan]

God I hope Cabd is just a lurky fucker this game and it's just you two.

[ActionDan]

Me too.

[ActionDan]

I mean let's be real. Dunnstral and Firebringer are clowns. Scummy clowns sure. But Cabd isn't that, and I expect more from him at this point.

[ActionDan]

That was in reply to A2. people cut a mile a min here.

[ActionDan]

I mean let's be real. Dunnstral and Firebringer are clowns. Scummy clowns sure. But Cabd isn't that, and I expect more from him at this point.

the clown has way more posts than you and way more detail into them than you.

Keep up the ate and attacks tho.

I will because it's true.

Your level of detail hasn't evolved from "X person is scum/town" or a reads list of the same at various points of the game along with a much healthier smattering of non-game revenant posts. As far as I remember the only time you've gone into detail of any kind was when I asked you about your reads.

[ActionDan]

You're scum.

You're really accusing me of having surface level reads, and waffling on those reads, and asking pointless questions, which btw are the ones that elicited the detail which I mentioned since they got you to post more than sentence at a time

Have a quote dump

I've been less than impressed by the back and forth between MariaR and Dunnstral as well as their "engagement" with others, which is both minimal and superficial. I am highly skeptical of Dunn's 824 because the first two sentences contradict each other, and to a lesser extent the last two parts do too, but more so I fail to see how someone about tied for most posts in the game was not invested in the game and only after this new found zeal is able to produce a reads list like 863 with little to say for it. For MariaR's part post 795 is a terrible reason to turn around a read, since as RC said, that's Non-alignment indicative and it's obviously so. It may be a stronger apology/overture/SOAP opera bullshit post but it's still quite in line with the rest.

Why would you be voting me?

In addition to the reasons listed in 957 I think your most recent GBT scum read comes out of no where and is manufactured especially with the reliance of trying to pair A2 and giga together, while the spam you continually litter the thread with takes on a malicious quality to me.

VOTE: Dunnstral

It may as well be confirmation bias at this point, but Key's posts tiptoeing around the read of the pair by alternatively calling it town and not wanting to actually commit to a read in the same post is indicative that there's scum in the pair. There's nothing I feel more sure about. Happy to eat my own cake if I'm wrong

Here's an idea Priscila. Lynch Dunnstral first like every dead townie has wanted to do, then have fun lynching fire bringer, and fight it out with A2/Maxous and their pairings if the game isn't over then.

Yeah this kind of post is never going to make me want to town read you or work with you.

ActionDan you're pretty heavily tunneled on me my man

I don't know why me and mariar both voting a2 is cause for concern. Actually, have you taken a look at a2 at all? Our votes have merit

I'll address you both here.

Yeah I looked at A2, it was one of the first things I posted about. It's a town slot. Me and Hebichan strongly agree on that. There's plenty of evidence to support it.

Your votes are unexplained and thoughtless. Priscila has phenomenally bad judgement despite being a hell of a lot more articulate than you or MariaR and has shown barely any interest in "working with" anyone who have better. That's obvious enough.

There's plenty of evidence to support it.

Care to share? There's a good chance you're dead tonight if town

This post contains it

Also A2's original case about Key is indeed a case coming from town.

It was probably former but I don't think anyone wanted to lynch you?
Can you point to where this was?

The only people who suspected you in the last 10 pages of pre-dance were Priscilla, Giga (flipped town), RC (flipped town), and keyen (flipped scum). Absolutely nobody voiced any suspicion of you D1 that I could see.
Unlike you, I believe that if you're town the second theory is more likely to be correct. Max had a strong suspicion of Shirou, who I was starting to suspect anyway.

Basically yes, the voices of dissent started right about here. Overall there weren't that many, but they were by far the loudest at the time. Most are gone yes (including for this purpose the replaced out MBC), but I still think that they were there, without that much pushback aside from A2 simply wanting Key gone most (and well, Hebi picking me in the end of course) shows that I am wagon material.

It could also be that Shiro is scum and scum wanted to kill off a shiro voter. Ofc, that same logic would apply to firebringer voters too, which would make Cabd/A2 an obvious target (caveat being their alignments both being town)

I townread Priscilla then. Didn't have a read on vecna but thought i would eventually. Maxous I townread but I can't remember what for. And you I thought were Town but I think it was just consensus everyone was saying you were Town, I disliked quite a few of your posts but I wrote it off as style differences.

I was more concerned with Giga dancing with someone at that point than the gentlemen, Giga was being extremely scummy imo and trying to hard too do Town things.

I also thought key would be useless Town like in last game with him where I think he protected scum all game.

If so, why in 572 did you suggest Key to go if at the least you didn't have a read on Vecna and thought key was town (if useless)? If you town read priscila why did you question both RC and Key about it in 498 and 534? If you town read priscila and scum read giga, why did you state that Priscila/giga was a good pair in 1270?

Dan I am going to be honest here, I think ur just asking me stupid questions to look like your doing something.

Cause I swear I answered everyone of these questions.
But I'll answer anyways:

I thought key would be inactive and easily pocketed by any scum pair so leaving him seemed like best to me for pragmatic reasons which is why even though I tr him over vecna I thought vecna was more useful to keep.

I asked rc for his reasons tr Priscilla cause i was too and didn't have anything to put it to words beyond attitude.

And given my impression of priscilla I was thinking her paired with Giga would give least amount of chance of Giga pocketing her partner since i thought she was getting a partner anyways might as well be someone who blindly townread them.

I wouldn't say they are "stupid questions" when they elucidate your thought process. Speaking of:

I don't think it's a particularly town thought process to immediately recommend someone you townread (useless, easily pocketed or otherwise) to die off over a person you don't have a read on besides thinking you'd be certain to get one later. If I were in that situation I would actually try and bother to try and read Vecna at that point before posting "Key?" in that instance, since at the very least that would be a disservice to Key if you thought he was town. Especially since when conversing with RC there he also suggested Cabd as his #2 for explicitly being scummy and you immediately voiced your disapproval by claiming he was town. Sort of would make people get the wrong idea about why you'd post key in that instance.

I don't buy that you asked RC about his townread of Priscila to give words to your feeling of Priscila. The exchange reads more as a desire to judge RC by his answer. Only a little bit later, you asked Key the same question, which granted, it deserved to be asked of him then imo, but I highly doubt you would have done so for the same reason.

That last part is understandable

---

Dunnstral I have the capability to not death tunnel with a one-track mind, the thing you accused me of doing last phase. I haven't stopped thinking you're scum. I spent most of the game doing so, and I hope players in the game don't forget that easily. I haven't been going around saying you're town, have I?

Q.E.F.D

[ActionDan]

I never judged you on style. I judged you on your thought process you presented me with.

[ActionDan]

It's 2 scum against 1 ActionDan, more like

[ActionDan]

Actiondan pls summarize your points against me and

dunnstral

again? Cause all it has been is just a waffle and you didn't even commit to me or Shiro when you voted us.

Immmmmmmmmm

Maybe try reading your own posts

[ActionDan]

you're a clown based on style. That's NAI

[ActionDan]

I almost wrote an entirely different post too. But after seeing that I will amend it to say this:

It's fine to not play serious 100% of time and shit post once and a while to be friendly, lighten the mood etc, but be cognizant that there's an upper proportional limit to that which makes the game harder to parse for plenty of people which can also make the game a lot more tedious and unenjoyable for many. I am in that category.

That said it's a lot harder to recognize effort if your posts are spaced out and effectively thinned. I can't see it. I could only see it when you answered my questions. I did not like those answers but I could see the effort placed in making them.

[ActionDan]

I am going to Sleep. I am still sticking with Evidence-based reasoning, and I don't understand what wouldn't qualify as surface reasoning to you if you didn't think anything in the quote dump was beyond surface reasoning.

[ActionDan]

My vote is in spirit squarely on Dunnstral but I don't mind if anyone else wants to think over the thread or w/e else for a couple days

[ActionDan]

If Dunn makes it to lylo something terrible will have happened.

If Dunn is town, then and only then would I think beyond my reads now.

[ActionDan]

I find it hilarious that all 3 scum literally asked a different lady to dance in their first posts. I can only imagine the strategy discussion in their scum qt. 3 scum gentlemen, must have been an oh-shit moment

[ActionDan]

Can't you allow him to try and milk the last bit of paranoia inducing posts he has?

Dunn is scum.

I am as close to 100% on that as I can be.

[ActionDan]

Then I bother to think again.

A2 is town.

And I take a hard look at you/Priscilla/assemble.

I have certain impressions.

[ActionDan]

O lord.

Please take a good hard look at 2221

I've looked at your major cases, take the time to look through mine.

[ActionDan]

In order:

It is trying to spin a narrative. It's a scum case in essence. That's what it's selling.

Giga gets scum read in 1095 for reasons I can not begin to fathom considering the posting by giga immediately before that was demonstratively fine. That read becomes permanent for the rest of the time giga is alive within a post or two. Thus it looks manufactured. Combine that with the fact Dunn called you scum two posts prior and said giga and A2 interactions look like scum on scum yet I don't remember any such interactions at all. Another tidbit is that Dunn called you scum in response to you questioning Firebringer about his Key read. I hope I don't have to explain the spam posting being cancer, but it is.

That point still holds.

Thoughtless, reasonless, votes especially after a flip to analyze is scummy. As well as claiming they have merit without explaining why. As well as it being on you out of all people.

[ActionDan]

Also
if I could feel good about ActionDan I'll leave.
Right now I just
don't.


Dan, I want you to talk to me about a few things like why you're willing to defend me so much
kinda thinking about it now it bugs me.
And what about the thoughtless, reasonless votes you thought came from scum? Because judging from flips they obviously didn't.

First don't leave.

I'm willing to defend you because your interactions with Key aren't a bus from either your side or his. Besides that, your first vote on fire bringer after predance concerning "fire bringer's awkward defense of key" was correct and justified. beyond that, I don't see anything in your posting that I'd consider explicitly justified.

Well they also came from Firebringer, who was scum. It happens. Just not with Dunnstral I guess. Still certainly looked like a scum vote and a horrible scum read at the time.

---

As for what my feelings on the rest of everybody is, there have been reasons to townread and scum read all of them to various degrees. In Assemble's case that came mostly from MBC but I the few posts of his I have gauged also.

Upon these are what I'll be thinking about and also I'm going to reexamine Fire's and Key's isos.

[ActionDan]

explicitly scummy*

[ActionDan]

Reading Fire's and Key's isos has yielded a little.

The more I think about Key's attitude with MBC the more I think MBC was town. It seems like Key was legitimately pushing for Mint to die predance.

Relevant quotes below:

If not you, then who should be booted out?

Can someone please explain to me how Mint Berry Crunch should not be booted out other than me? Thank you.

Mechanically impossible due to gender not being male

But if no one asks her?

Sure, but that doesn't mean she'll accept it.

Then we shouldn't pair.

Giga and Vecna should pair. I'm confident that both of these slot are town.

Priscila should be with Hebi.

Mint and Dan are the ones who I don't townread at all, so I could confidently say they could flip scum.

If my choice is Dan or Key, I'm not dancing.

Then don't. It could benefit town.

I know that I'm town
so it's between you and Dan who could possibly flip scum.

This just isn't something I see key saying to scum MBC.

From Fire's iso I get the impression Priscila is town, but that's not as strong as the above. Asking 2 different people to explain how she's obvtown reads as not wanting her to get that status so easily (granted one of those 2 people is key). Later I don't think this exchange happens between scum:

It's weird Priscilla keeps talking about me without you know, wanting to talk to me?
It's like talking about someone in the room while actually nfclike they aren't there.

I really wish this was responded to?

Hello.

Ohhh cool you don't hate me.
So why do you scumread me and think shiro is town?
Cause I have known shiro for long time and I have zero read on them.

---

Also just briefing commenting on the posts above this, that seems really strange for a scum!cabd to effectively sabotage himself. If you're here can I ask how you formed your most recent reads lust including Firebringer/Shiro and Dunnstral/MariaR pairs. It's basically exactly the same as what I was thinking of at the time but I'm curious as to how you got them.

[ActionDan]

Almost nothing of note between the two of them. The last game relevant post was "Was null early, now town" I believe.

cuts. I can't say I put any stock into that read though. It could have easily been put out there to make people think they were buddies if he flipped.

I agree that it would be a good thing were Priscila and Assemble to post! Priscila at least is on V/LA

[ActionDan]

I also don't really understand A2's plan. I assume it's simply voting your scumreads. If so, I don't think that's really a plan outside of what's normal.

[ActionDan]

ActionDan FoSes Fire for most of the game but doesn't vote him but goes for Dunnstral instead while Fire takes stances against him the whole game, basicly setting up a bunch of false dichotomies that they can't be paired together.

Neither part of this statement is true. I only took a closer look at Fire after intermission, and Fire only explicitly targeted me after I questioned him. It's up to you whether you think that interaction could be a bus, but as I said to hebichan in our Pt, I objectively would not think so as an outside observer.

Dan also talks to me as if he's trying to pocket me

I don't see how I'm treating you different than others in terms of tone or language I'm using. No one else has made two good cases on the two flipped scum and besides that I've found other corroborating evidence that suggests your town. It is what it is.

Also Hebi, what do you mean by undercommit to my reads? I've never backed down from them, and while I've expressed my doubts about a couple in our Pt, they don't disintegrate or appear out of thin air.

[ActionDan]

Cabd, I'd still like to know how you formed your reads previously.

[ActionDan]

I'm just holding my breath. This could easily be game; probably is game. But if it isn't I see town losing on the spot per hebi's last posts and the ones before that.

[ActionDan]

Either one of two things has happened this game.

One: A2 is scum and a decision was made to bus/distance from the rest of the team early on. I believe A2 both scum read key and FoS'd fire predance and both reciprocated with a scum read of A2. (I have to check fire doing this predance vs during first dance)

or

Two: Cabd is scum, paced himself pre-intermission and rallied just as fire was being lynched.

It's not obvious which it is, although I certainly have a lean which I'll post in the Pt to document it only ftm. I'll be rereading to try to make a final determination today.

Also I suggest NOT leaving to decide the game but voting, at least until the 11th hour. The slow and painful way raises the EV of a town win slightly in my opinion.
I know my vote actually doesn't really matter, but I'll specify who I think is scum when I do.

[ActionDan]

Ok I've reread and I've reconfirmed that A2 wasn't bussing. If you were, well played because I don't see posts like 955, 1016, 1019, 1021, 1025 and 1026 as interactions between scum buddies. I find those posts even more convincing than the main case on key in 1383, which stands on its own merits still to me. Later reading the progression on fire after the first dance, feels really good considering the above, like to borrow your own words, a "natural" scum read extension from pre-dance combined with the knowledge that Key was scum.

There's a couple things I would like answers about though. Some I can guess at, but I'd like to hear your own words

1) you linked a game in post 1029 to show a difference between town key there and key here. Even knowing his alignments in both now, I can't spot a difference between the two when you hard town read him in that game. What's the difference, what would have made you care about what he said in that game

2) What made you prioritize lynching Firebringer first dance over the Dunn/Maria pair. Did your scum read of Dunn and/or Maria go up or down relative to Firebringer?

3) regarding your most recent post on me in 2427, you have said plenty that my push on Dunn wasn't natural, and now you cite 2268's last point but you posted this in 1886:

Lol your votes have 0 merit.
Maria's "merit" is fabricated bullshit.

As far as I can tell, you started scum reading Maria around here. In 2427 you're calling this suboptimal play coming from town but why is it unnatural of me to call this for the BS it was especially when thought Dunnstral was scum?

4) Also from the same post — What to you makes my push against fire look more like a bus and less like a push against scum from town? Like I don't understand this sentiment at all. I know I'm highly biased but I'd be less concerned if you said the same about key than fire, considering how things turned out at the end. I don't do theater like that. Never have never will. But regardless I don't understand how you look at that and feel "yeah looks like a bus".

---

I will try to get a more proper reread of Cabd.

For now I want to know what gave you the impression you were snowing P_A here?

some cuts.

[ActionDan]

I was in the middle of a post btw

um

good job!

[ActionDan]

I was town

[ActionDan]

For now I want to know what gave you the impression you were snowing P_A here?

Mostly? Instinct from her phrasing and the lack of heavily pushing me. There's a very specific way we treat each other if actually scumreading one another. And what she was doing wasn't it. It's "deathtunnel mc deathfunnelface" if anything.

For now I want to know what gave you the impression you were snowing P_A here?

Mostly? Instinct from her phrasing and the lack of heavily pushing me. There's a very specific way we treat each other if actually scumreading one another. And what she was doing wasn't it. It's "deathtunnel mc deathfunnelface" if anything.

Like I can state with near 100% certainty that her PT from the interlude is her telling Maxious how town I am. And that I'm being lazy.

I believe you that were she scum reading you, she'd tunnel you, but there's a clear difference between "snowing" and the mild townread she expressed. I highly doubt she was singing your praises in Maxous and her Pt. The last thing she wanted from you was a reads list on which her read of you would be conditioned, and she said this multiple times. You never gave one, and were I her, I'd find that unsettling.

1) He seemed like he cared about the game there, like he was making an attempt to scumhunt. Here his scumhunting is just...Absent.
2) I was starting to forget why I scumread Dunnstral, so I went for Firebringer instead and I wanted to help Cowbells push that since it was a read we both agreed on. Maria was one I got from interactions during the First Dance but even then pushing Firebringer was a priority for me since I though that had more chances of flipping scum due to Associatives.
3) Maria was just saying "Keyen v A2 could be a SvS" without looking at flips. Dunnstral was saying "A2 is being extremely hostile and it bothers me." Maria blantantly did not care about Flips, Dunnstral just concerned that I was hostile and wanted to figure out if it was AI or not.
4) Honestly it's mostly just judging by gamestate and how it went down. Ever hear of the bussing method called Divide and Conquer? A group of scumbuddies scumreads the other and vice versa. I'm saying this is what happened here in attempt to open up a bunch of false dichotomies. I'm saying the way Fire approached it made it seem like this is what was going on. I'm saying instead of going for Maria/Dunn, Fire was going down and you decided to hop on for cred.


There you go Dan.

1+2 make sense to me.

for 3) I agree that those were their cited reasons, but again, you said that what I said about it:

Thoughtless, reasonless, votes especially after a flip to analyze is scummy. As well as claiming they have merit without explaining why. As well as it being on you out of all people.

is suboptimal play from town that I spinned into something scummy. They are the exact same reasons you scum read MariaR if not Dunstral. This reasoning applies to the both of them, so I'm asking you why I shouldn't have thought this was a reason to scum read Dunstral?

4) Ok but which posts of Fire's made you think that and why? also after I voted you complained about nothing getting done so you didn't think he was going down necessarily.


----

Where I was at before game over

[ActionDan]

Well good thing I efforted whenever I wrote 1354!

[ActionDan]

But let me teach you a lesson about scum!Alisae.
My game is clean majority of the time, unless it's Adventure Zone where I put myself in a position where I am like super uncomfortable 100% of the time.
and I do whatever the fuck I want
because as scum
I recongize I have complete freedom over my actions.
So if I feel like doing something
I'll just
do it.

So to answer if I would push you as scum or not?
I quite don't think it matters.
I also think it's quite a waste of time to speculate on right now.
For starters A. I'm not scum here
B. It depends on the Gamestate and
C. It depends on wether I feel like it or not.

So when I reread this, this was basically the only thing that made me think you could be capable of bussing like that.

(Also where you asked Maxous if you were right on key which made no sense but mostly the above)

I was scared. And rightly so but there was no way I could see you as scum

[ActionDan]

agreed. Even non-bussing posts I more or less agreed with or felt they made sense

[ActionDan]

Now I understand that gambit more fully.

I probably would have shrugged it off, but hey I guess it worked

[ActionDan]

Unsure where he was toxic tbh. "Hello?" was basically the limit of his hostility as far as I could tell.

That said I tend to tune out breakdowns and stuff like that.