Newbie 1816 (Game Over)

[A Simple Plan]

UNVOTE:

Hi guys, I'm ASP. I'm replacing Tuber. His vote on Llama was bad. Working on reading up a bit right now, but I might have to put a full catch-up on hold until after I get a little sleep.

Through two pages, Llama's play is more NAI (not alignment indicative) than anything to me. It feels more teach than necessarily town leader like others have suggested/hinted. But by no means should my vote be there.

As dumb as it may seem, the push on Bhoy for confirming and never posting honestly makes sense from a newbie-meta standpoint. I don't like pushing something of the sort because it always feels game-breaking, but still...

Also, in case any of you newbies are interested, yes you can check someone's last login time, but users can shut that function off by hiding their online status when they sign in, so it's not always effective.

[A Simple Plan]

As dumb as it may seem, the push on Bhoy for confirming and never posting honestly makes sense from a newbie-meta standpoint. I don't like pushing something of the sort because it always feels game-breaking, but still...

ASP also needs to really explain this statement, because I don't like it at all. This seems like just trying to leave that as a point he can push a player on later, but for the time being is going to give them a pass on it. This is a type of tell where it either is scummy to you if you read your role and then flake, or it is not a scumtell. Maybe later in the game with a scum flip you can try to connect dots reaction wise, but stand alone it is either a tell or not. ASP seems to say its a tell but one he doesn't want to use.

JR still is making me very uncomfortable as well, I need to try and do reading but just something about him feels unnatural to me.

Its about 72 hours to deadline. We need to start consolidating things and make sure everyone is caught up. If you are not voting right now, go read posts saying why people who are voting are doing so. Try and see if you like cases, or if you think cases being pushed are bad and react accordingly.

It's a statement that basically equates to "its not something I morally approve of game-wise, but if we've got nothing else, it's where my vote will go." Using login times to see when players are around is the equivalent of glancing at another player's card when they're not paying attention during the in-person variant. While it's not against the rules, it violates the spirit of the game, and I'm not gonna push on that alone unless there's nothing else to be had whatsoever.

[A Simple Plan]

My sincere apologies. Work has been killing me lately- I got called in Monday night, making this past evening five days straight that I've had to work; and if it wasn't for the "rollover" Saturday night, I'd already be into overtime hours for the week. Stocking jobs are exhausting...

Currently my vote goes on Mulch just at a glance. He is just jumping around on any potential wagon trying to see what sticks- when Llama was under pressure, his vote went there. He voted me to try to create a pressure wagon, and now he's on Jaereed who is, with that vote, the largest wagon- and all his reasoning has been absolutely terrible (Meta is garbage; wagoning an inactive is garbage; "gut" sometimes nails people (Micro 732), but is heavily unreliable.).

VOTE: Mulch

[A Simple Plan]

What.

Alright, so, Llama's post about unvote your self vote is spot on. That's stupid as hell regardless of alignment. But in this particular instance it's scum flailing like mad, hence the trap card image.

Gin's brand of sarcastic play reminds me of town game from quite a few players. Too much posting for a Not_Mafia comparison, but I see similarities in demeanor. Gives me a gut reaction of town.

People criticize my passive lurking because I've been busy as hell (first night off in a week!) but not active lurking (aka contentless posting) from Whemestar. Not lynch-worthy, but note to self: over half his posts are less than ten words. You don't get anywhere off of "Maybe he is." "Maybe he isn't."

@Mulch: even if we lynch you, there's no chance we're using your flip as the basis of a push on Gin. The more likely result is that the blame falls to me for starting the push and disappearing. But you again switched votes based on a weak reason ("too scared to talk about his scum read flipping town") and even self-voted to push your agenda. It wasn't that you started the wagon on Llama, it's that you were late to the party (my predecessor started that wagon/push. My vote would've preceded yours had I not unvoted upon joining the game.), and even so were trying to reignite a wagon after others had expressed interest in voting there/concern about the slot. You've thrown Appeal to Emotion (AtE) at us ("go ahead and lynch me, but when I flip town you have to listen or we lose.") and WIFOM (wine in front of me; look it up) in the sense that it's almost objectively against wincon as either alignment to self-vote, and it makes no sense from either alignment, so why is it happening? I like our chances lynching you. Also 286 literally trying to use the way something is worded to get yourself out of trouble. Like, what?

Allow me to rephrase Ginngie's 284 to help you get the point in case you don't already.

Mulch, what I don't on a moral level as town, is why you're trying to teach newbies that self-voting is okay

Point: don't do it regardless of alignment. Especially in a newbie game.

I like guy's points in 290|292

[A Simple Plan]

Look, I'm not even gonna lie, at this point I'm willing to call it a policy lynch on Mulch on the fact that regardless of his alignment his play has been so counter-productive to a town agenda that I don't want him to make it another day phase. His voting behavior is scummy af, but not even voting for your scum read is terrible. The two options are poor town play or noncommittal scum. Either way, this wagon needs rope.

[A Simple Plan]

For starters, might I recommend not trying to sacrifice yourself just so you can push a tunnel on someone, or jumping around from vote to vote like a game of hot potato?

[A Simple Plan]

What questions do you want me to answer?

I wonder if the scumteam is Raya and Llama.

I wonder.

Where TF did your death tunnel on Gin go so quickly?

[A Simple Plan]

In all fairness, the case against me is weak. I'm not gonna sit here and squirm, but I'll offer a few parting thoughts because it looks like this game got impatient after stalling day one to deadline.

1) the reason I didn't vote Llama is because I wasn't around. You'll notice I didn't post for the entirety of day 2, which was ended quite prematurely despite finding a decisively-scum player. Rays wasn't around until after hammer either. The argument that we didn't bus so we must be scum is invalid because of the quickness with which the entire day, much less the Lynch occurred. If that's your reason for pushing me, it's much more fair to say it's an activity-based lynch in its entirety. The case that I didn't push Llama, or that I moved my predecessor's vote off of him, isn't entirely invalid, but looking at the vote counts, the only two players/slots who never voted for Llama at some point during day one are Guyy and Raya. If we wanted to use early voting alone for our lynches, that's something to note. On a somewhat related note, it's typically how I function that I unvote with my first post upon replacement. Emphasis on that being NAI of me, but something to be aware of when using as an argument to push me.

2) I really don't like how Mulch has played, I pushed him as scum the whole game, but based on interaction with Llama and llama's flip, I'm willing to say town. Also agree with Mulch's 561 as described above.

3) remaining players from town to scum:

-Guyy: has genuinely been pro-town, has stuck to his guns for the most part. As much a good feeling about his posts as anything else, but still not conf by any means.
-Jae: would've been higher, but that Lolhammer was potentially a clever cover-up for ending D2 early to deprive town of as much discussion as possible. I don't care the flip, it was BAD.
-Raya: NGL, I liked 574 in theory. It feels like newb-town effort to explain reads and things. It also helps to say that a quick-hammer AGAIN would be bad. But it's not enough in my mind to convince me of anything.

VOTE: Raya

Also willing to look at a JaeReed wagon, surrounding that 'lolhammer' theory as mentioned above.

[A Simple Plan]

LOL so you think llama's push on me that nearly ended in my lynch was scum-scum? You wanna go there?

I think it was more likely scum-scum than a Guyy scum or Mulch scum at this point, yeah. It would also make sense of the Whemestar kill (see 527 when it appeared you'd be the next suspect on the list there, taking out a potential opponent with next to no repurcussion from the town for it. Are you my top pick for scum? Nah. Are you in the mix? Yup.

[A Simple Plan]

I'm a little confused as to why I'm being voted for. Asp, you say you like my 574 and you say it's a good thing that I said another quickhammer would be bad but then you say you're not convinced I'm town and vote me.

Everyone else is more likely town than you are. One good post =/= town.

[A Simple Plan]

What does who's pushing the case have to do with anything, guy?

[A Simple Plan]

Cross vote

Not yet I'm not. The fact that you're alive concerns me way too much.

Like, it's still hard to see you and Llama as buddies this game, but there are too many factors playing into WHY ARENT YOU DEAD? And all of it points more than anything at me, so unless one of us is scum, it makes more sense to kill you in my head.You were the only one to townread me, so you surviving the night, at first glance, looks to be a play from me to save my ass. I know that's not the case, so I'm being framed. Is it by you, and my read from the beginning of scum!Mulch is correct, or is it guyy, on whom I saw a more decent case later in the game? Either way, it's too early for me to cast a vote.

[A Simple Plan]

The fact that you're demanding cross-votes is what coaxes me to believe you could still be scum. Nobody town ever demands a cross-vote.

[A Simple Plan]

The fact that you're demanding cross-votes is what coaxes me to believe you could still be scum. Nobody town ever demands a cross-vote.

Why not? And why did you scumread me before I did this?

One, I didn't (see 634, same page).
Two, that implies you're conftown, which you're not, and in the event that you're scum and we're foolish enough to do it that quickly, gives you an easy hammer.