Mini Normal 1983: Winter Wonderland [Endgame!]

[mozamis]

Oh hey guys. Who are the scummies?

bit self conscious, could be scum?
VOTE: sephiroth

[mozamis]

Let's put UC on L-1

we want to be a bit careful where UCV is concerned. He can wind some people up because he has strong opinions, and thus canbe lynch baity - he's not a sheep or a pleaser. So yeah, dont just lynch him cos he is different.

[mozamis]

vote: UCV

scum slipping onto the wagon?
happy with my vote.

[mozamis]

VOTE: Flub

I want mulch to sub in

ah i thought sheep was mulchs alt lol

[mozamis]

flub vs kat = tvs t

[mozamis]

not mafia town as well

[mozamis]

so 3 scum out fo 9 easy lol

[mozamis]

havent read anything yet except this lol

could be self conscious, procrastinating scum

fos serg

[mozamis]

Oh we need to put UCV at l-1?

VOTE: UCV

and an opportunistic vote as well!
yeah up for seriph or serg

[mozamis]

and an Hopkirk.
Played with twice when he was town and both times he was very active, proactive. it's early days but so far he has been lightweight.

[mozamis]

So consolidated town/p.o.e list:

Town: moz, kat, flubber,kat, sheep,

3 scum in: Seph, Inter, Serg,Hopkirk, UC, Scishm, Bjaber, Human

strongly suggest we stick to those 8, almost 50 pr cent chance already of hittng scum.

[mozamis]

NOT MAFIA SHOUD BE IN TOWN, (put kat twice)

[mozamis]

my "confident" reads consost of 5 people that are very likely town. then 8 people who i read as null or scum. I wouldnt say that is over confident.
but yeah, for early day 1, i think its helpful that we have 5 people that are obv town. getting the 3 out of 8 could be trickier, however...

[mozamis]

well, i cant really help that. altho my maths is bad, the calc tells me its 37.5 per cent.
you're an exp. alt, you know that those 5 guys i listed are so likely to be town. and also that most of the scum team prob havent posted yet.

[mozamis]

man 23 pages

[mozamis]

gonna slowly catch up through the evening.
obviously i'll skip self indulgent waffly wall posts.

[mozamis]

to whoever said i was scummy for making strong townread early on: it's just how i play, i like to narrow it down day one and play captain obvious/occams razor.
you can wifom if you want but those townreads are unlikley to be scum.
you may think it's being overconfident, or think the approach is wrong (and OF COURSE, sometimes i am way off) - but none of that is scummy, it's just something yoiu dont approve of.

[mozamis]

fix my perception of you.

fixed.

[mozamis]

VOTE: Bujaber
Meant to do this in 151.

fos

think i have done this as scum, he's nervous , doubting himself, thinking "shit, i should have for bub, but ididnt, shit!"
town may not bother voting here.

[mozamis]

Moz has the lowest content to spam ratio in the game atm, so the vote makes sense in that regard.

you are either blind or stupid, since i gave out reads very quickly - too quicklyu according to some - and you cant get purer content than reads.
tl;dr: STFU.

[mozamis]

although you arent exactly buddying, so you reinforce my town read on you.

[mozamis]

stating intent. At minimum I'm waiting for the continuation of 182, seph to post, moz to post, and UCV to post.

what the fuck is this? cant see any town motivation for wanting to end the day so soon.
fos BUJ

[mozamis]

Or do you think Hopkirk is more probable to be scum than Flubb?

yes.

[mozamis]

I just want you to explain to me why you felt those people were town at that point in the game.

none of them were shy, they seemed guilt free, bantering but also giving out reads, not backing down in arguments etc etc lot of CONTENT, ANALYSIS.

[mozamis]

It was spam in the sense of you taking about 10 posts to get that one set of reads out

dont be a dick, none of those posts were spam. keep your tone civil for gods sake.

[mozamis]

if in doubt, policy lynching lurkers day 1 always good idea. always a decent chance of hitting scum, and get rid of useless town. UCV, Internice and Doyuouknow.

[mozamis]

I didnt like moz's catch up. And also serg's.

can you do more?

i havent caugh tup properly, huge chuinks of the thread missing.
however, i'm happy with lynching any of the lurkers or burj. i retract my scumread of serip for now, he seems quite town. admitedly he is posting in that really fluid natural way that good scum players CAN do (Vifam, Mulch). But more often than not "conversational" = town?
what the fuck do i know lol, day 1 is always anightmare.

[mozamis]

players

i hear ya, but i lik eit because there is that decent chance of hitting scum. Scum do like to lurk. Not all of them, but i bet at least one of them is in the smaller amount of posts.
just putting it out there.

[mozamis]

And you. And Sergtacos. Why did you miss them? Can you towntell now?

yes, for on ce i am one of the lower posters. its been a busy few days. however, i just picked the bottom 3 players, the hard core lurkers.
as for town telling, i stand by my early four town reads. - sheep, kat,notmafia and flubber.

[mozamis]

Now Moz is scumming it up too smh

I don't like how BuJ's wagon is supported and populated by my top scumreads and my recent scumleans. It throws me off so much.
I don't like how Sergtacos adds a vote to "add pressure" where there's already a lot of pressure.
I don't like how Moz is playing right now, and 'lynch all lurkers' is something I have observed scum does in D1 in my recent games. I could be wrong but Moz is still not in tiptop shape imo.

I have a fat list of scumreads right now. I need help. @Kat

no, i'm town. i agree with you abotu the BUj wagon, i didnt like the fact tha t you and Hopkirk were on it. before you get cross, for the record i think hopkirk is much scummy than you.
i dont think i've ever seen scum say lynch all lurkers day 1. And i re-iteratere ITS A GOOD WAY OF CATCHING SCUM.

[mozamis]

VOTE: Not_Mafia L-1 this pls and make him claim.

post like this make me townlean human now.
it's fucking ballsy for scum.

[mozamis]

UPDATED P.O.E
TOWN = MOZ, KAT, SHEEP, FLUBB, NOTM, SERIPH,MONKEY
lynch in Schism, Buj, Hop,Inter,Do you know, Serg.
Now we do have a 50 per cent chance of hitting scum day 1!

apolgies, i ddint realise Do you know had replace UCV.
So we cant lynch Do you know on the lurker principle.

[mozamis]

Kat and Hop: I'm gonna be honest here, if I were to fully understand what just happened in the last few pages I will need several rereads. It is all over the place. It hurt my head reading it. So look, I will if I have to, but do I need to? I think the summaries you guys posted make a bit more sense, but they don't align. So the real question I'm asking here is do you both agree that you misunderstood each other, or does one of you think the other is twisting facts?

I can see HEM's case (with regards to HEM's own posts) on Hop making sense. But the Kat/Hop interaction is messier.

Also while I totally see HEM's point of view, I am not sure Hop was doing it intentionally. Him not liking the flubb wagon is more AI imo.

I've been playing around with the theory that flubb's wagon could be entirely town. It felt unnatural and exceptionally quick, and regardless of whether all voters are doing it for the same reason or not, the intention behind it seems to be to get out of RVS and get a wagon going, which means if flubb is town scum would probably be a little nervous joining in a wagon that could be quickhammered plus they could just sit back and watch town mislynch for them. If this is true it makes Hop look significantly worse. However serg being on the wagon complicates matters. Like my initial read of serg was obv scum. But when I saw people TR'ing him I thought it might just be a personality thing. Especially when players who've stated or implied having played with him are claiming he's always difficult to read.

UNVOTE:

THIS IS EQUIVOCATION< FENCE SITTING< it doesnt say anything!
we should be happy lynching this.

[mozamis]

-

for the record, i dont get the obsession with pagetops, who gives a fuck lol

[mozamis]

it's classic day 1 so far, ninety per cen to fthe thread is town. kat vs serip vs monkey vs sheep
whilst scum just look on damn them.

[mozamis]

moz i’m still missing why you townread flub

it's a fair point, i am catching up- as you can see- and he is defintely a weaker read than those other town reads.
i think i just felt he responded well to the pressure on him.
i dont htink we should lynch him.

[mozamis]

Comment on my scum reads assholes

i think monkey is TOO aggro to be scum. yeah i know, it has been done, it CAN be done. But it's quite rare.
Buj i obviously agree needs rope.

[mozamis]

what he is doing is POE. if we lynch X, X, and X, we will hit scum. it has worked really good many times. what do you find bad about it. the fact that a player is there that you think should not be there?

(sure, he's been replaced, but the role pm remains the same)
this post is scummy. there wa sso much to catch up on, to talk about, and he gives us some theory?

[mozamis]

Can I be replaced with my alt, DoYouKnowDeWay?

AH FOR FFS LOL

[mozamis]

can someone tell me what occam's razor is

OCCAM was medieval philosopher who basically said the simplest answer is often the correct one. Shave off all the fluff, get rid of the nonsense, use the razor of simplicity to get to the truth.

in mafia terms, people use it as interchangeable for "obvious is the correct answer".
for the record i reckon its a good way of nailing two thirds of scum?!

[mozamis]

Plus he says he's been townreading Flubb but went hostile with him earlier.

I'm not buying town!Moz here.

Wasn't that along the lines of them thinking I'm stupid town?

i was in abad mood and he pissed me off. i may have been abit harsh on him.
but yeah, the fact that flubb was arsey as well i took as town. scum normally less aggro.

[mozamis]

idk why but Moz's reasons for townreading me aren't really things that I'll townread me for. it really seems like pocketing.

you're probably still annoyed because i scum read you earlier. you'll calm down and see the truth soon.

[mozamis]

@Intern - 188 was me stating intent. But I was saying I wouldn't until the people I mentioned posted and even after that I may decide I want more time.

That was 188. Now I don't want flubb dead yet. Gotta sort out the scummier options first: serg, intern, moz.

If you were townreading him until recently (in the context of page 16ish) idk why you'd state intent on him lol

good catch!
town points for inter.

[mozamis]

you'll note as soon as started my catch up a few hours ago today, i changed my read on you. so there was "good process".
anyway, i think i am done., i may have missed a few pages, but i think i have most of it.

[mozamis]

So lynch order - most scummy to least:
Buj, Hop,DoYou (probably scum team)

Serg, Inter, Schism.

Everyone else town.

[mozamis]

i thought i had voted for Bujaber, but it looks like i didnt.
but now i see sheep voting fro DoYoykniw, which is tempting.
who are we more up for lynching?both of the could well be scum.

[mozamis]

VOTE: bujaber

[mozamis]

i'll vote for doyouknow if thats consensus.

[mozamis]

i played this game on mu where i was scum and our entire scumteam just lurked and pussywolfed and some powertowns dominated the discussion
this really feels like then, the way the wagons shift and reads change and the shared townblock grows and i have too many townreads

that is most games lol

[mozamis]

List of people who didn't want a BuJ lynch:

Monkey
Kat (?)
Moz

If there are more I don't remember.

Do you think these people are partners? If so why are you townreading them?

what? i've been pushing his lynch, i'm voting for him.
i said i'll happily change over to DoYou, because we need a lynch. But...no. Clearly i want a Buj lynch.

[mozamis]

For some reason, we seem to be panicing. We have 8 days left. But i dont see why people are resistant ot a Buj lynch. The only guy on his wagon that looks scummy to me is Hop - and maybe i'm worng about that.
So lets lynch BUj.
And if not, Doyou is excellent compromise.

[mozamis]

Explain what info you will get from BuJ's flip. Because I can explain what info I can get from Hopkirk's flip.

info is: he's scum.

[mozamis]

For example, Hopkirk is a great D1 lynch. Very great D1 lynch

completely agree. buj, doyou, hop they are all good, if we could just maybe lynch one of them

[mozamis]

deway tells us nothing, too

decent chance of them flipping scum. that's kinda..the point, not info. UCV looked scummy.

[mozamis]

the schism slot to post

i guess i am putting schism aside until tomorrow. it's a "fos on the back burner"

[mozamis]

I notice you aren't wagoning Moz monkey.

lol i note your "scumread" of me only appeared since i scum read you.

@ Serip and Monkey - need you guys to drop the pissing contest, you are both town!

p-edit: and lol you now vote me! scummy bs

[mozamis]

Moz, I'm flashwagoning you 2 days before deadline so you better town it up.

you see ,thats why people accuse you of bullying - its over the top, monkey. anyway, i've put out a lot ofreads and cases, and been pretty transparent in my thought processes. if you cant see that, i can t help you.

[mozamis]

Anyway, join me on Moz like you did on Bu. That went well for reads.

translation: i know moz is town but i have to give some reason lol "yeah, lets get info from a mislynch"

[mozamis]

i really dont know what you expect from a mafia game moz lol

just try and play sensible. with your head, not your heart or ego. The more "lolz" games are, the more scum win them. Because they can hide behind "yeah, lets flashwagon!", "yeah, lets lynch for info" etc
keep it clever!

[mozamis]

VOTE: doyouknow

L-1. Claim.

[mozamis]

Moz, Buj, Hop all feels upside down to me. Considering she doesn't scum read Hop and Flubb and Moz, I can't see why she townreads Buj. This is highly unusual to me and I want to know more.

it could be weird cos shes scum.
i mean, claims to have got up to p20, and yet didnt comment on any of the main events? town are naturally curious.
it's nothing definite, but a fos nontheless.
still, deal with her tomoorw.

[mozamis]

Has anybody given the thought that the ucv slot hasn't bothered to read the game at all and has no clue there's a wagon on them

can i just clear something up? UCV said could he be replaced with his alt Doyouknow? was that a joke or not?

[mozamis]

just be clear, there is no rush. we can give th eguy a day after his prod.
but the worry always is: that won will start infighting and lose focus and start a wagon on someone else.
So happy to give the guy time, as long as we all agree to a sabbatical while we wait.

[mozamis]

If he wanted a summary he'd ask for one. He was asking for an explanation of something he read

You're also ignoring the fact he's been online and posting elsewhere the past few days. He's ignoring the game deliberately.

oh really? scrw it then, hammer him.

[mozamis]

sorry, didnt realise there had been a hammer.
i reckon he will be flip scum.
hopkirk and buj reluctance to get involved with the lynch noted.

[mozamis]

VOTE: DeWay

Fine with me

you smoking Pink Floyd when you posted this lol
you were already voting DoYou.
so he is still alive.
i say hammer.

[mozamis]

at the very least give him the chance to respond to his prod

post or perish is still very relevant - cant post if you've perished.

do we know when he was prodded?
24 hours from his prod aand then guillotine.

[mozamis]

at the very least give him the chance to respond to his prod

post or perish is still very relevant - cant post if you've perished.

just out of curiousity, which game was it where you replaced in and nailed me and me scumfucks?

[mozamis]

he'll be prodded in 2 hours.

ok, so we hammer him 9pm friday night if no claim/decent post? any hint of prod dodge and we hammer him.

[mozamis]

ok ManyMunchTrobairitz

[mozamis]

rip

also 9pm what time zone

also

I feel like UCV lynch is bad but whatever.

he doesnt like it but "whatever" ?
pingy as fuck

9pm GMT Fri,so thats 4pm EST usa?

[mozamis]

nice sabbatcial people lol

[mozamis]

oh i fart them out constantly

re-using old material? disappointed

[mozamis]

a hammer would be good.
but i'm less panicky than i was because this town has kept this lynch together for a while now, so i think we'll be good even i f we have to wait a bit longer.
if i dont make it, defintel ylynch hopkirk tomorrow. it's a very strong meta read.this isnt town hop.

[mozamis]

it probably amounts to the same thing, but 12 hours from his prod seemed fair.

[mozamis]

a hammer would be good.
but i'm less panicky than i was because this town has kept this lynch together for a while now, so i think we'll be good even i f we have to wait a bit longer.
if i dont make it, defintel ylynch hopkirk tomorrow. it's a very strong meta read.this isnt town hop.

You literally haven't played with me as town in a finished game, so either:
a.) You're scum and know this isn't true, or
b.) You're referencing an ongoing game.

Which is it? I already raised this point and you flat out ignored it.

1) you were effectively town in that weird upick game (he was "effectively" town because he had a weird shapeshifting/morphing role that meant he became town and won with tthe town in the end)
2)i cant talk about it AND YOU KNOW THIS SO DONT MENTION IT AGAIN

this is why your scummy - you KNOW i have played with as you as town, and you are seriously trying to argue the toss, perhaps even get me in trouble with the Mod?! Thats not town.

MORE IMPORTANTLY YOU ARENT DOING SHIT TO GET ANYONE LYNCHED.
Contrast you with someone like Seph. He may or may not be convinced that Doyou is scum, but he wants a hammer, he is trying to push the game forward, he is CURIOUS for a flip.
All you do is vote for peop[le that are neve gettong lynched today, like me and Kat. You jumped off the Baj wagon as soon as got near a lynch.
You literally show no interest in lynching anyone.

[mozamis]

we all good with lynching Doyou at 9pm GMT/4pm EST if nothing from him?

[mozamis]

Hammering before we get a replacement helps scum so lets not do that

Doyou is a replacement, and time is ticking by. We lynch tonight.
We have so much info for day 1 - th eamount of content is huge! We are good fro alynch.

p:edit - shit, have i missed that? has someone replaced in?

[mozamis]

*sigh*
just gotta hope town can keep this together *looks at Kat and Flubber*
dont talk too much!
and yes scumfucks

[mozamis]

I AM TRYING OT STIFLE DISCUSSION

[mozamis]

*TO

[mozamis]

So, the Mafia Discussion forum here has a thread expressing a concern for the town win rates being in decline.

i've been playing for a while, and i'm fairly sure scum have always won more than town. It's hard to work out whos lying on the internet. No facial giveaways, no nervousness - or its harder to pick up on. Plus people are arguably just more...dickish on the internet, they use it as a way to let of steam, which is good for scum, they can let town tear each other apart.
Well played scum, dont think i got any of you lol

[mozamis]

sorry hopkirk

[mozamis]

once agin, its thing about "semi-lurkers".
"Moz, lurkers arent always scum!"
No - but how often are scum the BIG posters? Not often.

[mozamis]

funny how monkey is being quiet lol

[mozamis]

why was i nk'ed?

[mozamis]

serg was scum! kinda...kinda...got one read right *CLUTCHES AT SMALL STRAW*