Open 708: Pick Your Poison - Game Over
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You're better than fallacious analogiesIn post 83, Thor665 wrote:
Penguin will be scum unless he posts a smilie in his next post.In post 82, Flubbernugget wrote:Penguin will be scum if all they can do is continue to argue with you
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Wagons get the game going
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So, calling a scum read from one post is always an easy case to fake.In post 102, Beefster wrote:
Not sure how I feel about this post. On the one hand, I can see possible scum in Bella, but on the other hand, it looks slightly manipulative.In post 98, Flubbernugget wrote:Bella votes are pro town atm
VOTE: Flubber
Pinging me just a bit stronger than thor.
Would you like to elaborate on how it's manipulative? Because there's nothing in that post that says there's consequences for disagreeing with me, and I'm certainly not buddying anyone with it- Flubbernugget
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I mean your push against me now sucks too
I think seeing what I did as coaching makes your complaint make more sense. Think of it this way: if I'm already of the opinion that your timing argument isn't worth discussing, why would I town read someone who's only focus is that argument?
You're welcome to show me a tell based on timing actually working. I've never seen it before. Also, you've said that you're no longer attaching to this argument as a means to get out of rvs, so why are you even bringing that up?- Flubbernugget
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The general idea is that calling something out makes someone less likely to do it. Even if penguin is scum, they've now lost a tool to bog the thread down with bullshit.In post 110, Thor665 wrote:I just don't get the idea behind telling him 'yo, stop doing A and I'll read you townish'.- Flubbernugget
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I think an example of a timing tell with an explanation of why it worked and how it applies to this game and an example of a timing tell that didn't work with an explanation of how it doesn't apply to this game wouldn't take much effort, and would be useful in discerning your alignment.
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Thor, I expected better than defending your counterexample by virtue of it being a counterexample. How does that show me you didn't get lucky and lynch scum for the wrong reason? I'm well aware that yes, you *could* catch scum on timing. That doesn't convince me that it's a useful path of pursuit to find scum. In addition, asking if I would like examples of timing tells working, and then telling me doing such is a waste of time comes off as incredibly disingenuous.- Flubbernugget
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I liked them for scum off the unexplained town reads. That's now stale.In post 128, mozamis wrote:
not seeing Max scum, explain please.In post 82, Flubbernugget wrote:You should surely be able to tell I think maxous is scum.
You're null.
Whoever first brought up the timing thing is probably town-ish.
Penguin will be scum if all they can do is continue to argue with you
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The idea was that you had a weak entrance that scum could have hopped on to counterwagon maxous. It would have made for a good talking point in addition to Thors push on penguinIn post 147, Bellaphant wrote:Yeah, that is what I meant and was super helpful.
IF flub -doesn't- wanna lynch me, what does he think town is getting out of a wagon... I have some ideas but I'd rather flub talked to me.- Flubbernugget
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Moz - they've always been quick to push reads, and they're making good points amongst them.
HeWhoSwims - 66 critically analyzes how town and scum have to play differently to their win conditions, and pull reads from it. 164 handles the Thor/pp interaction in a way that gets the point across without belaboring it. There's also self reflection and uncertainty in some of their reads, which is comes off as honest. Very town.
Moneybags - I like 150 (reads list) . I can see the conclusions he made stemming out of the discussion he generated.
Bellaphant - I tend to see posts directly challenging asymmetric knowledge like 154 as hard to fake as scum (though not impossible). I also can't peg any scum motivation to the gut town read of texcat. It can also be difficult for scum to do a 180 on a stance without feeling like they have to cover tracks. I don't see that here.
Klick - making good observations. I'm partially sheeping 95 with my moz read above. They're also making reasonable pushes and seeing things that other players haven't.
Beefster - same 180 thing as Bella. Their reads are kinda weak, but I can see where most of them are coming from (except the moz newb thing, but I never call scum over one point)
CultofAthena - they caught the same thing I caught with PP early game. Their last post shows healthy town suspicion.
Maxous - good reaction to the pressure over their early Town reads. I can see them expecting that to be a moot point and moving on with the rest of the game, and didn't try to over explain their initial town leans.
Tl;dr: there's been a lot of strong town players for this early in the game and I took for granted that it was not immediately obvious what I was seeing.- Flubbernugget
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Well, there's seven pages of content, and texcat didn't have much to say about it. The "make a case or something" was a reference to the fact that texcat was shading Bellaphant without pushing many reads.In post 176, HeWhoSwims wrote:
QFT.In post 174, texcat wrote:
Hmmmm...In post 172, Flubbernugget wrote:So make a case or something
VOTE: Flubbernugget
Telling me to make a case, when you are not. Plus telling us that voting Bella is a town thing to do, when you are not.
Flubber, care to explain why both of these points are a thing?
Do you still think tex is town from their catch up? I don't.
VOTE: texcat- Flubbernugget
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It would have been an easy vote park when you were lurking. Not when you're here to defend yourself.
It's not that you said something about Bella, it's *what* you said. You were throwing rvs levels of suspicion when we're 8 pages into the game.
Your omgus claim is dumb for two reasons. 1) it's reasonable to have something to say about your first (lacking) post of substance. 2) I have enough town reads to POE down to 3ish players, making your lack of substance even more damning.- Flubbernugget
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Cult, this answers your question to me.In post 111, Flubbernugget wrote:
The general idea is that calling something out makes someone less likely to do it. Even if penguin is scum, they've now lost a tool to bog the thread down with bullshit.In post 110, Thor665 wrote:I just don't get the idea behind telling him 'yo, stop doing A and I'll read you townish'.- Flubbernugget
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It's atypical to have this many town reads, yes. That's why I was hesitant to revote in the poe pool after unvoting. I don't see what the problem is with this is, and considering you didn't seem to take issue with my reads list, I don't see why you're taking issue to it either.In post 193, HeWhoSwims wrote:How... seriously do you want to consider this PoE in the D1 lynch or even further lynches? Can we (or well, you) really get 7-9 townreads that are strong enough and valid enough to pin one of the others down as undeniable scum? Agree that low activity = contra town but for the sake of town -assuming you're town for now- keep your vision open beyond this early PoE.
You're also arguing from a really strange angle that my early reads are locked in stone.- Flubbernugget
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So then, you're barely scumhunting, even for your activity.In post 248, texcat wrote:In post 171, texcat wrote: I don't understand either, but do note that Bella's pockets are roomy and warm.
I agree that it was not a super serious accusation. Perhaps that smiley tipped you off?In post 246, Flubbernugget wrote:Also, I have no clue why you're town reading texcat. Low content meta doesn't cut it. You still have to account for the very little scumhunting in what they had, which was a laughable pocketing accusation.- Flubbernugget
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Anyway, this is still plenty enough reason that my wagon is bad.In post 224, Flubbernugget wrote:Thor voting for me after "not pushing me" because they're interested in me vs tex interactions is some absolute weaksauce- Flubbernugget
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Not actually making a point here, but this was pretty funnyIn post 349, Klick wrote:scum-Moneybags (Scummybags?),
--
And no Thor, I didn't explicitly ask you for your case on me, but I casted suspicion on you never posting one almost immediately after your vote.
I don't recall you asking me to back up my meta read at all. If I didn't answer your question, why didn't you quote it several times like you did with maxous?
It's very fair to consider the wagon on me bad when the player known for being able to make strong cases isn't making an actual case on me.
---
Not 100% caught up.- Flubbernugget
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1) bad frame. I'm one of the few people actually putting effort into sorting you past "Thor is null"In post 361, Thor665 wrote:
I agree that your goal was to make me look scummy for something that wasn't scummy.In post 356, Flubbernugget wrote:And no Thor, I didn't explicitly ask you for your case on me, but I casted suspicion on you never posting one almost immediately after your vote.
You're still not answering the question I notice.In post 356, Flubbernugget wrote:I don't recall you asking me to back up my meta read at all. If I didn't answer your question, why didn't you quote it several times like you did with maxous?
I didn't re-ask because I never once felt that you had done it accidentally.
Who is this player?In post 356, Flubbernugget wrote:It's very fair to consider the wagon on me bad when the player known for being able to make strong cases isn't making an actual case on me.
Because if it's me - what's the evidence in support of me making strong cases?
And if it's not me - whose case are you dogging on?
2) Asking "I am?" sounds rhetorical. It's fair to assume that means our recollections differ, and it's fair to not dig much into the meta after that (I've never been a meta heavy player as is). Again, be explicit. You didn't have a problem doing this with me before, and now you do. You're giving yourself too much slack to backtrack on your arguments.
3) knock off the humility bullshit- Flubbernugget
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Fair postIn post 583, RadiantCowbells wrote:oh yeah and this is what happens when you don't give me a few days to figure out my reads and instead force me to half bake content, you get reads that fly all over the place while I'm still rereading the game.
I hope you all learned your lesson- Flubbernugget
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I'm not ducking your question. I told you I misunderstood your question as a rhetorical statement, and then took your word that my meta recollection of you was misrembered.In post 657, Thor665 wrote:For those keeping track.
Yes, Flubber is still ducking answering the question.
You'd think he'd answer it just to undercut me at this point since he claims to think I'm scum.
But he won't, because then he'd have to reveal that the case is empty and he's scum.
Are you arguing that I was correct on your meta this whole time?
No, you're flapping your arms and making a shit fucking case that, if wasn't shit, would only be pointing at a small point of my play, which is not how you find scum.- Flubbernugget
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Yeah, I have time to talk about this now.In post 717, Beefster wrote:
What re-evaluation?In post 650, Flubbernugget wrote:Beefster's reevaluation doesn't look natural
First, we can dissect all the lamist bullshit in 632. I misread it as a re-evaluation as opposed to a flat-out submission, but my issue in it lies elsewhere. First, "saying lynch me for info" doesn't solve the game. It absolves you from having to take responsibility for your actions, and it flat-outdoes notassist town. It gives you a free pass to do nothing, which is actually creatinglessinformation for town.
Lets look at this compared to the rest of your ISO. There's no frustration. There's no considerations or evaluations that your reads may actually be wrong. There's just this "gut" thing being thrown out to look good.
But...very interestingly...your scum reads got called out for the entirety of the page before 632. You got caught, and cracked under the pressure.
My town read on you stemmed from you being self-aware, but I now see that it was just a sign of you needing to leave your reads open to hide from suspicion. - Flubbernugget
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