Open 710: MKUltra - Foreign Spies Win!

[skitter30]

VOTE: Mumble

You need to make your votes bigger lol

@mod:

I'm v/la on Fridays and Saturdays

[skitter30]

To that end, standard reminder that, yes, this is multiball, and yes, scum scumhunt too. That said, town is the only faction actively hunting for both teams, town is the only faction completely uninformed, and town is the only faction that can have most of its members die and still win. So on one hand, fuck multiball scumhunting (thanks Impede for signing me up for this), but it's also possible by tells that are different from singleball.

This feels kinda LAMIST to me tbh.

Like you're throwing out (very) general advice for what you think town ought to be aware of, and the last paragraph kinda feels like it exists to demonstrate that you're scumhunting.

N_M vote/wagon is good, Beefster/Mumble seem town. Sky is weird and that might be due to toning against meta.

Like I feel like the conclusions you've drawn are kinda weird/unsubstantiated for this stage of the game? Like I'm not really sure what you've seen that's AI from either Beef or Mumble. What does 'weird' mean in this context, and what does this context even mean lol?

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Failing to doc us results in us dying and statistically means that y'all lose the game which is not fun for you.

I'm pretty sure statistics don't work this way lol

[skitter30]

re: Math/TD

(spoilered just cuz I write a lot and I'm trying to make my posts easier for people to read)

@Hawk also because I talk about the hydra thing in the spoiler

Spoiler:

:/

This post kinda boils down to: obvnewbtown on Iconeum + policy on NM + fence-sitty on {me, red, rc, beef}. Like you gave yourself a PL and room to backtrack on like four people.

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I don't understand the self conscious thing? are we not supposed to acknowledge we are in multiball. Both Hydras opened this way so if it's an accurate multiball Scumtell or something then I doubt that's a pair.

It's not the multiball thing. It's that I feel like math is intentionally planning on lying low, but informed us that if impede is in trouble he'll come and help him out -> it kinda feels like he almost expects this to happen and is forewarning people not to pay attention to what impede does as much because he'll come rescue the slot if necessary.

Yeah it took me a while to figure out how to articulate what's bothering me in with math / the hydra dynamic, and that's it.

I'm not playing Mathdino at all. I'm playing half of me/Impede, and I intend to put in 50% of Mathdino-level content. The extra steps to log into this account is also gonna be a natural barrier to me hyperposting and insta-responding as usual.

And while that hurts people's ability to read my slot

I fully expect that 50% of my usual content and >50% of Impede's usual content will be about equivalent to one of me. If this slot starts running behind on content (or town is doing dumb shit and Impede does nothing about it), I'll step in and start picking up the slack, hard.

Like he's announcing that he's going to lie low because he wants to give impede agency but he's also saying that if impede doesn't provide content or if the slot is hard to read, he'll pick up the slack, which is implicitly informing us that we don't need to worry about impede that much because math is always around as a backup.

So I'm just getting this overall vibe that he's like pre-emptively trying to defend against scumreads on the slot that might happen because of impede's posting by telling us that Math will pick up the slack if impede isn't contributing.

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tldr: I feel like Math is being pre-emptively defensive and LAMIST and I think 48 is a :/ post.

VOTE: Technical Difficulties

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So I basically agree with Red but I don't really feel like Hawk was reaching when he called out Red, because Hawk doesn't see the hydra thing as being AI.

[skitter30]

The fact that his activity was to countervote me made me feel that he resented being poked. Or it could just be rvs. I don't know. I guess I'll see where it develops.

I get townpings from this but idrk how to articulate why rn.

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Eek this reaction, "I did not read everything properly" sounds too defensive for town. However props to voting someone who's voting the player who voted you, odd move for scum.

Really? I didn't read that as defensive; it sounded kinda honest and genuine to me.

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@Everyone scumreading my opening: What do you think town-Math does in that situation? More specifically...
1. Do you think town-Math even tries to lie low? (if no, this implies I'm lying about the nature of this hydra)
2. Assuming town-Math DOES lie low, how does town-Math do it differently in the opening?

I don't think I can answer this question because you seem to be asking me to answer how I think town!*you* would play this, and not just how some generic random town player would act in this situation, and I don't have any experience with you upon which to base an answer.

You're correct that I'm preemptively defending against people who expect too much of me.

No, what I'm arguing is that you were pre-emptively defending against *scumreads on impede if he's the main poster*

I'm mostly afraid that Impede scums it up and gets our slot lynched because I haven't been here enough to produce readable content.

My problem isn't inherently the activity thing so much as this whole thing boils down to the fact that it seems like you're expecting the slot to get scumread and you're basically telling us not to worry about it because you'll be around to pick up the slack. It's the fact that you feel the need to defend *now* against potential future scumreads from impede's posting that's bothering me. It isn't the activity thing; I don't really care that your head will be low activity, and that isn't really my point. Like you sound overly concerned about potentially being scumread because of impede, and you're telling people not to worry about it because you'll pick up the slack, which is what I find scummy.

Also I feel like you're being kinda manipulative in that you're *very* subtly misrepping my point from 'I think math is pre-emptively defending against scumreads on impede's half of the slot' to 'I think math is pre-emptively defending against his lack of activity'. Like there's a subtle distinction between the two, and I find the former to be scummy and is what I've been posting about, but I don't think the latter is relevant or important to your alignment given that it's a teaching hydra.

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Vague townread on Iconeum for their reaction to the ice mafia claim as well, maybe?

Kinda agree with this; I feel like scum would be more awkward around someone literally claiming scum, instead of going along with it jokingly like they did.

[skitter30]

VOTE: Iconeum

Like...43 could have been funny and RVSy. But your 51, 54, and 58 are just...unnecessary and fake. Especially 58.

Talk to you Monday, I guess. Wouldn't be surprised to see you pop in soon.

Honestly kinda townreading most of those posts because I don't think scum reacts to someone claiming scum by joking about it and carrying through the joke for multiple posts tbh.

Kop’s entrance pings me. Although I always feel like scumreading Kop because he looks tryhard.

Somewhat inclined to agree with Kop on N_M. Although I can see some effective scumplay in his posts.

a) I don't really see tryhard

b) These two statements are kinda weird juxtaposed with each other? IE his entrance pings you but you agree with his main point? Like it's kinda weird to argue both at the same time

c) Your slot wants to policy NM (a sentiment that has since been echoed by others), you say there's things about NM's play that you could scumread, and NM is the leading wagon, and you leave it to start a vanity sesq wagon?

the only person I feel strongly enough about to consider as an alternative is RedFlavor but even them there's stuff I like?

Yeah I kinda feel like this right now. The only person I'm scumreading atm is TD; everyone else is null or townleaning. I don't much like that I have like no significant scumreads besides the one but I feel like that might be a feature of multiball, idk.

I kinda disagree with you on RF though, I'm tending town on him overall.

Sesq feels town, Skitter has been bumped up to near locktown, not happy with mumble, Kop is okay.

Why on me and mumble?

[skitter30]

You really feel like you're trying to gamesolve. I've also seen you several times as scum and generally know what to look for and am not seeing it this game.

Mumble literally copy pasted a bunch of posts from a game where he was town and got locktowned by me page 1 and I want an explanation of why he did it because it feels like he's trying to get the same townread.

I guess I was kinda surprised by the strength of the read given what I've posted thus far, and it's making me wonder if the read was given out too easily, if that makes sense?

Also link the mumble game?

[skitter30]

Given that I essentially (correctly) claimed a guilty on you last game before you claimed vig to get out of it I don't think it should surprise you that I'm townreading you?

That was like six months ago and I don't think you've played with town!me, but fair enough.

@skitter 127 point b does not conflict, someone can come in being a tryhard and you can also agree with them

you've never had any scum agree with you on something and had it feel a bit weird?

also not a fan of this trend of people scumreading for explaining a thing then voting another thing. something is off.

Yeah I agree with you in that I don't think it inherently conflicts, but it's still kinda weird to at once shade someone's posts but also agree with the main argument posited in those posts.

Is the last line directed at me? If so, I'm not really sure what you're referring to?

[skitter30]

If he flips town it removes a non-contributing player so we don't have to deal with him in LYLO? We don't have a vig to take out the trash this game so I'd rather do it on day 1 so we can get interaction reads over a slot nobody is supposed to care about. It seems a lot of people have an opinion some way or the other, so I think a flip there increasingly has merit.

I now explicitly support this and if NM's getting policied I'd prefer it happened today rather than later.

[skitter30]

When playing the game with Boonskiies I took the time to read every single game you've played. I feel pretty confident in my ability to ascertain that.
If I couldn't recognize your towngame I wouldn't have had the confidence to push on you like I did in the boon game

Hmmmm, I guess I can buy this.

I guess I'm just feeling kinda wary of your slot atm because I'm getting some pocketing / buddying vibes from you guys rn and it's disconcerting me a bit and making me kinda paranoid.

Like I feel like Key was low-key defending me to Iconeum. And like explaining my posts for me?

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You mentioned this a bit but can you explain more?

I think it's mostly gut atm, and I can't articulate it super well right now. I guess he just seems very open and forthright. Like he doesn't seem to be trying to be evasive or misleading or manipulative.

Also yeah I was kinda reaching, I did not read everything properly when I voted that

It's mostly from this -> I feel like if scum got called out for reaching they probably don't immediately back down and admit they didn't read everything? Like they'd be more self-conscious imo.

Someone asked me about what would I expect from math's scum game, I thinked about it and it would probably be pocketing some people and outing their scumread, so I agree that it might be early to TR him.

Like this feels very open and reflective.

I feel like I'm getting his unfiltered thoughts about the game, if that makes sense?

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Agreed it's early, but I noticed it and found it worthy to mention.

Regarding Skitter, his 38 was in response to TD's 19. I feel that post would have been better suited as a response to your 21. It strikes me that he chose TD's post over yours to respond to.

He only responded with a joke on statistics.

a) she

b) I'm an applied math major and after working through a sequence of classes in probability, I feel oddly compelled to point out when people are misapplying statistics lol

c) RC's post was kinda LAMIST also but it differed from TD's in that he actually gave concrete scum behaviors to look out for in this particular game (although now that I think about it, I don't really recall seeing TT follow up on that anywhere ...), whereas TD's just threw out some incredibly vague and general advice. Like TD's advice wasn't really directed towards any specific purpose and was so vague that it wasn't actually helpful. Like at first glance, his advice seemed useful but if you actually thought about it, it wasn't. So it looked like it was there more to make him look good and like he was contributing then to actually help people look for scum in this game, which is why I called it LAMIST.

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can you guys please read my posts before you respond to them?

I'm reading your posts but tbh I'm having trouble parsing them and figuring out what you're referring to much of the time.

[skitter30]

@Beef:

I don't really like the Hawk -> NM vote.

The Hawk vote in the first place was reachy imo, and when people pushed back on it you fell back on a safe NM vote.

Also I don't understand your readslist at all tbh. I have like only ~4 reads that vaguely much with yours, and I don't really get where you're coming from on most of the rest of them.

[skitter30]

I have like only ~4 reads that vaguely much with yours, and I don't really get where you're coming from on most of the rest of them.

Like sometimes when I see a readslist that I fundementally disagree with I can still understand it because it's cohesive. Like I can say something like 'It makes sense you're scumreading A if you're scumreading B in this gamestate' even if I disagree with both of those reads if there's a central POV binding together the reads.

I just don't see that in yours. It feels like a bunch of names stuck in a random order that don't have much to do with each other. There's no cohesion or direction and it just fundamentally doesn't make sense to me.

[skitter30]

Beefster wagon was too fast...not scum, I think.

@Tael

: You didn't really care about your question to me, did you?

In singleball, I'd definitely agree with your first line, but I kinda feel like in multiball that a wagon can be scum-driven (and thus appear to have little resistance) but still be on scum because there's two scumteams who want to eliminate each other.

And looking at the wagon (TD, Sesq, RF, Iconeum, Sky), I think the following:

-> I still think TD is likely scum but not with Beef. And they're still my biggest scumread, which means in singleball I wouldn't touch any wagon they were pushing with a ten-foot pole. But I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea that a wagon could be scum-driven and still be on scum which is overall making me kinda unsure whether or not I support it; I think it's scum-driven but has merit.

I'm not particularly impressed by TD's initial case tbh; it overall feels like Impede picked a random player (like what prompted him to choose to look at Beef in particular?) and found that Beef's ISO made him pushable, so he just pushed him. Like the push feels like Impede felt like he needed to push something and found Beef and found that an ISO-dive of him makes a good case, as opposed to actually finding Beef scummy in the first place and then writing a case on him.

Like Impede's Beef push feels more like a vehicle for Impede to push *something* than Impede actually scumreading Beef, if that makes sense.

At the same time, I do *not* like Beef's reaction to getting pressured, and I really don't like the Hawk->NM vote.

-> Sesq's vote is :/ and I overall feel like her votes are lackadaisical in that she seems to be fine with pushing like anything.

->RF's, Iconeum's, and Sky's reasoning all echo some of the problems I've had with Beef's posting after TD started his wagon. Red called out Beeff's bizarre reasoning on Hawk/Red and I like his vote but I'm having a lot of trouble articulating why. Like it doesn't feel agenda-y, but more like he found something scummy and voted it. That doesn't really capture why I like it but I don't know how to explain it better right now.

I like sky's more than iconeum's because it just articulates like all the things that I found *wrong* with that readslist. Like it feels like he looked at it from several different angles and found it lacking in several ways. His post feels multi-dimensional and like he's trying to understand beef's motivation.

Like I feel like I'm largely townreading the back end of the wagon more than the front end, which is weird.

[skitter30]

Sorry for being absent, just finished midterms

RedFlavour and Hawk are lockscum

You're making a rather compelling case for your policy lynch.

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i was unsatisfied with the game state, willing to vote almost anyone, but didnt have any strong scumreads - waiting for a purpose.

And I'm saying that I find this to be scummy.

nobody on the wagon really pings me yet

but i still think sky is scum

Sky is on the wagon ...

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T&T's mumble case is garbage. Mumble is obvtown.

I'm getting townpings from him occasionally but I can't say I feel strongly enough about him to townbin him confidentially.

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HOWEVER, #219 is a very terrible (scummy terrible) and ppl should put some more votes on that dude.

I thought it was a town post tbh.

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There's a bunch of things I rather dislike about TD's readslist but I'm not going to put time into picking it apart because they replaced out and won't be able to like talk about it.

Read on me is actually quite bad imo.

Also it's weird that they asked to be replaced, made a whole readslist, and then popped back in to vote GIF. I don't much like it.

Also I don't get why he out of all of his scumreads/pl's, he picked GIF to vote.

And I suppose I'll never find out lol.
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I have issues with GiF's playstyle as it's hard to derive intent from quite minimalistic posts. However he is actually engaging players in most of these posts - eg 57 when he votes Hawk 'for reaching', 121 when he questions Kop/TD about reaching, expressing an opinion on NM, and a few other things.

So I feel this is more likely to come from town and I'm not really interested in lynching there.

I'm evaluating Beefster's response.

This feels weirdly defensive of GIF tbh? Especially since you start off by saying that it's hard for you to 'derive intent from quite minimalistic posts'. Like his posts are hard for you to parse but you're going to use them to towncase him.

Also like it's weird timing? There isn't much pressure there and it's not like he was in imminent danger of being lynched, so the bolded feels kinda off.

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okay let's just lynch N_M.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

I mean, yes, I support a pl on him in general but I feel like it's too early in the day to settle on a PL on him?

[skitter30]

I thought it was a town post tbh.

y

Felt genuine and like he was *trying* to me. Like it doesn't feel faked to me.

Why do you think it was scummy?

[skitter30]

I actually think this game that the right option is still to lynch NM day 1, and now there is a chance. So I am going to push for that chance.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Not Mafia

I don't really like pl's, but that game showed me he really oughtn't be anywhere near LYLO, and I'd rather pl today than like two (game) days from now or whatever.

I agree that he's playing pretty much exactly the same way he did that game.

VOTE: Not Mafia

I still think TD's slot is scum thoug

I thought it was a town post tbh.

y

Felt genuine and like he was *trying* to me. Like it doesn't feel faked to me.

Why do you think it was scummy?

That "trying" had a lot of scummy intention.
As if he wanted to justify(? dunno if it's the correct word here) that "townread" too hard

It felt more *try* than *tryhard* to me. Less like he was trying to justify it and more like he was trying to work out what he was thinking.

[skitter30]

a) me pushing TD wasn't really gaining traction so me sitting on my vanity wagon doesn't exactly accomplish much.

Like the slot is kinda absent and no one is listening to me, so me and my one vote can't do very much right now, but I'm hoping that if I say it enough maybe someone will join me at some point. If a TD-slot wagon re-emerges I'll rejoin it happily.

b) Yesterday I was objecting to the fact that it felt kinda too early to settle for a PL cuz I want to ensure that the day doesn't get cut off prematurely, but the gamestate is starting to get kinda stale/apathetic and like no one's talking.

The only wagon with *any* sort of momentum rn is the NM one, partially because Sky just voted there, so I decided to join it to see if anything interesting happens.

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@mod

: I'm going to be v/la Sunday-Wednesday cuz I'm traveling to a wedding. I'll probably be able to post, but not super regularly.

[skitter30]

Yes let's PL with two scumsided nightkills

For some reason, I thought it was max 1 kill per night, but upon reflection I have no idea where I got that from.

Going through the current wagons (based on the last vc from the last page)

-> Beef - not super feeling scum!beef right now.

-> NM - a great pl and he's playing exactly the same way as scum!nm did in open 711, but yeah this is a bad idea

-> redflavor - I think town

-> iconeum - I think town

-> GIF - not sure. I don't really have a read here but forestalling a PL in this setup is probably town-motivated?

-> Hawk - agrees with GIF that a PL is a bad idea and switched to vote RF (with GIF) but is also shading GIF by saying that he might be partners with NM

Who says the Policy Lynch hits town?? Are you that convinced lynching NM flips green? That's some scum partner talk there.

I don't think Hawk+Red is a thing.

-> TD slot - still scum but people aren't into it right now.

So for now I'll

VOTE: Hawk

@Mikan - are you like going to do anything?

[skitter30]

Skitter what about my play was scummy?? GiF confidentially stated that we shouldn't PL and gave a double mislynch as his reasoning. It's not shade, it's just pointing out Gifs logic should be that NM is a mislynch which not even scum would know.

No I don't. You could be gambiting as partners. Or if you are scum gambling he's not 2 in 11 that you know could be town which are pretty good odds. It being multiball doesn't change the fact that confidentially saying someone is town isn't logical.

Also yes that is worst case scenario. Who says the Policy Lynch hits town?? Are you that convinced lynching NM flips green? That's some scum partner talk there.

You agreed with his logic and unvoted because of it and proceeded to then pick it apart and explain why you think it's illogical. So I'm calling this shading because you're at once agreeing with his point but also attacking him over it.

And you also posit he might be *that* confident because they might be scumpartners. If you really think this, I'm not sure why you aren't like doing anything about it, like voting him.

Why is TD slot scum still?? Don't bring up anything about the hydra or Maths play versus dinos play cause that isn't talking about the "slot" -_-;;

I mean, just because the players changed it's still the same slot?

I don't really understand why you don't want me to bring up math's play / the hydra when that's the basis of my scumread.

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:

Till I get back tomorrow night; I want to follow up on Hawks response but I won't have time till then.

[skitter30]

(sorry, was traveling)

Also it regarding the slot I was basically asking why you think the slot is scummy independent of TD since well you said the slot is still scum...

Because I didn't think it was alignment indicative. I'm not meaning to sound like I'm attacking him? I'm just paranoid I guess... I agree that we can probably do better than a policy lynch with 5 days left. I disagree with his logic that NM is town and that we shouldn't policy lynch him because of that "fact"/"confidence" he's spouting.

OK, so do you want to lynch NM as policy or because you legimately scumread him?

If you actually scumread him, I don't understand why you backed off when GIF said a PL is bad in this setup. If it's policy, I don't understand why you agreed with GIF that policy is bad and unvoted and then got into a whole debate about whether or not it's bad while also accusing him of being NM's scumpartner.

TLDR: I don't really get the vibe that you *want* a NM lynch, between how you joined it and how you were willing to back off it pretty easily, so I don't really understand why you got into a whole argument with GIF later about it, wherein you were shading him and arguing about the efficacy of a pl in this setup.

Like given you don't actually seem to *want* an NM lynch, your argument with GIF kinda looks like it happened for the sake of having an argument.

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Also it regarding the slot I was basically asking why you think the slot is scummy independent of TD since well you said the slot is still scum...

Oh yeah, by that I just meant that just because there's a replacement doesn't mean that TD's scumminess should be forgotten.

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OMGUS?

I'm afraid deflecting and calling attentions to other viable wagons does not count as a legitimate defense. Try again, scum.

Why is this OMGUS or deflecting to other viable wagons? He's going through the votes on his wagon.

Given 258 and 260, you've became a lot more confident about hawk!scum. Can you walk me through why?

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Thank you for your confession.

VOTE: Hawk

YOU'RE FUCKING RETARDED IT'S THE QUOTE NM POSTED WORD FOR WORD EADLIER THAT EVERYONE IGNORED AND DECIDED WAS NAI!!

Always serious remember to announce L-1

pedit:... maybe I'm just to strung up. Guys please forgive me if I'm coming off as an insane o right now.

I agree, anyone who claims scum is scum

.... i... I know this has to be joking... you claimed scum...

pedit: okay I'm getting off I'm not in the right mindset for this trolling...

These actually feel kinda town to me?

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We probably could have used more time to hear his defense, but we'll see how important that is after the flip.

Again, given how confidentally you were calling him scum above, why do you want to hear more of his defense? In the posts I quoted above, you kinda seemed like you were convinced he was scum and you were ready for a lynch already.

This feels like a fake reaction.

This basically.

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I'm not really into Hawk anymore. I don't really like how Beef has interacted with the Hawk wagon, so

VOTE: Beef

[skitter30]

Thanks I'm free now

I don't think I will play multiball ever again because I literally scumread everyone then they did very townie things and I put them to my townreads

I still kinda think this is flipping town, but meh.

BBBBUT WAIT

when i said "but I understand" in #384, i meant i understood where rf was coming from, because there is a legitimate case to be made. Also, he looks like scum I guess. more than anyone else.

anything and everything deserves total clarification

thoughts on the lynch: he's probably town. at least it gives us something to talk about

If you think he's probably town, why were you on his wagon ?

Still think mikan is scum.

[skitter30]

@mod:

Has mumble been replaced? Also

Fire Mafia kills and Ice Mafia kills have different kill flavour (i.e. the moderator will make it clear which Mafia team was responsible for each kill).

VOTE: GIF

I don't like the way you pushed the Red wagon and I don't like any of your twilight posts.

I also have scumreads on Beef and Mikan. My only townread of note right now is Iconeum but it's weakening.

[skitter30]

Gif, while we're in twilight, thoughts on Kop?

As an aside I have been too busy to really focus on this game; I'm probably going to drop out if I can't commit properly by the next phase.

I think this is a pretty weird post. Like you pop in during twilight to ask GIF about Kop (ie as opposed to talking about something topical like Red wagon or the rc/mikan/gif thing).

Like why is this directed at GIF in particular? Why were you specifically asking about Kop at that juncture?

[skitter30]

How did I push the red wagon exactly?
Your own words pls

You were lobbying for votes on him by like asking anyone who posted to vote him. You took it from like two votes to L+1 in hours and I still maintain that he wasn't scummy. He was like awkward in a trying newb town kinda way.

[skitter30]

Because ...?

[skitter30]

B-Because ummm... I think its kinda easy to push someone for pushing a mislynch.
I-I think you're pushing a fact and n-not a read, s-so in the event GiF flips town y-you can u-use your justification you built up as a scapegoat.

Aaaah sorry! I must be wrong.

It's a read based on a fact, so I don't really understand the distinction?

Oh don't worry he's not even pushing the fact well because this guy is clearly not explaining how I was able to get that wagon up so fast in the first place.

a) she

b) I don't really get what you're trying to say. You lobbied for votes and people listened to you and did it. I don't know why people listened to you. Like you, me, and like half the game agree that you were responsible for yesterday's lynch so I don't get what you're asking me about exactly.

to remove a fairly inactive player, although I can't specifically recall why RF was being scum read other than this

Like this kinda articulates why I didn't like the wagon. It felt low-hanging-fruit-y on a guy that was like awkwardly newb town and people were just saying he's scummy but never really explained *why* they thought that. Like it felt compromise-y and like people didn't care enough about who got lynched so they just went along with you, which makes me think it was at least partially scum-driven.

This entire post feels like awkwardly over-explain-y tbh.

What made RF special over Kop?

Turns out the answer was 'nothing'. After that I felt completely disempowered. I was ambivalent on the RF lynch, and then while I was deciding whether or not to push elsewhere, there was a hammer. So I just gave up and called it a night.

K, so from this snippet I think you're saying that you were asking GIF about Kop to see whether or not you ought to join the RF wagon or do something else because you wanted to know what diffrentiated Kop and RF but then hammer happened before you could go anywhere with it.

So this is like weird given that in your initial post you popped in during *twilight* and said as much. Why would you be asking GIF about Kop to try to figure out if you should push RF that day if you knew that the hammer happened already? Like in the snippet I quoted you're making it sound like you first asked GIF about Kop to try to figure out if you should join the RF wagon or do something else but then hammer happened, but the two events actually happened in the opposite order. And you *knew* that at the time given that you literally said in your initial post that it was twilight, and I specifically asked you about making that post during twilight.

Something feels kinda fishy here tbh.

I should not have gone along with you.

VOTE: GIF

Tbh the fact that you're voting here with me makes me want to leave it which means I should probably be voting you.

VOTE: Beef

Reading through the Gif/you thing doesn't really do much to change that opinion.

It's miles-away more towny than TD IMO.

I don't see anything townie and I rather disliked the L-1 tbh. Does the fact that one of your biggest townreads is voting the other bother you?

Spoiler: answer

Yes, that is correct.
I actually just formed a "compromise" wagon.

Yeah, and that's what I don't like about it.

[skitter30]

Yeah, and that's what I don't like about it.

So just jealousy. gotcha gotcha.
Because I don't know who wouldn't want to lynch their scumreads more effectively than rallying people who have shown interest in lynching the same scumread.

I'm saying that I don't like it because it felt compromise-y and like people went along with it because it was just *there* and were just like 'why not?'. I don't actually think that most of these people actually sincerely thought he was the best lynch but just did it because it was an option. Like weren't you getting those same vibes?

Spoiler:

suspicious is a buzzword but i understand

why would you type like that if you weren't trying to obfuscate?

it's for the memes. it's the memes. she's a meme player. pass.

VOTE: rf

VOTE: Sesq

for backtracking... ish.

Sir your vote is in the wrong place.
Please fix it and vote RF asap.
Thank you.

Uhmm... So now I'm supposed to sheep you?

That would be fantastic.

You can always ISO RF to convince yourself if that's the way you prefer.

Maybe I'll hammer after RF claims.

I need to evaluate this for myself.

Like these are very compromising-y posts. Sesq doesn't think that 'suspicious' is a bad thing but voted anyways. Beef just did it cuz you asked him.

[skitter30]

I only said that wagon was "compromise"

because it probably was for others

. It wasn't for me.

OK, and does like concern you at all?

[skitter30]

skitter's 518...

Voting beefster over a vote that beefster made on GiF... While in that same post you attack Gif for the very reason beefster is all over GiF...
Really seems weird. Continues to attack GiF in 520 while skitter's vote is on beefster for doing the same thing.

VOTE: skitter

So, I think that wagon composition matters *a lot*, and being on the same wagon as someone I significantly scumread feels wrong. Voting with Beef bothers me more than I like my GIF vote, which kinda implies to me that I scumread Beef more and I ought to voting there.

At the same time, Gif's response to the Red wagon/flip is a little weird. Even if the fact that the Red wagon was essentially a compromise wagon didn't bother him at the time, the fact that he still doesn't really seem concerned by that *even though* Red flipped town isn't really sitting well with me.

Like a non-insignificant portion of that wagon was people just going along with GIF, and the whole thing just felt very complacent-y/compromise-y and like people just did it cuz it was a thing that was happening and they didn't really care about it or what Red actually flipped.

(And I think that Beef's vote was one of the worst)

No?
He was my scumread and I wanted him lynched?
And this game is a multiball so it is totally acceptable and understandable that scum would be on different scum wagon?

Like ... you agree with me that the wagon was kinda compromise-y and that opposing scum might be on it, so why don't you seem to be much concerned about this?

[skitter30]

You're currently voting Beefster so may I presume you are on board with this now?

No, because I don't like the Red wagon, neither yesterday nor how GIF is fine with its lackadaisical composition despite Red flipping town.

I totally expected him to be around in day 2 and I was wondering if I should push there in this day phase.

But a hammer had already happened and he had sporadic activity anyways so I don't really get why you'd think that pushing Kop at that time would be remotely beneficial or like accomplish anything, *especially* if you thought he'd be around tomorrow.

Like, there was a hammer. You popped in *after* that to ask GIF about Kop so that you could decide if you should push him. He was lurking so he probably wouldn't be around before the thread locked anyways. You think he's going to be around the next day. So like why bother to ask just then at all?

Idk it still feels weird, and your entire explanation feels over-explained.

You are suggesting that I came in to the thread, said "Hey guys look at Kop" and then killed him overnight to bring attention to myself because ???.

I have absolutely no idea why you'd do that.

I agree the Kop kill was weird, and my post is only weird because Kop also died. Otherwise it's nothing special.

And yeah, the kill is weird, and without the kill I probably would have blipped over the post, but like that context *is* in fact there, and in light of that context your post becomes weird too; together I think it's something that bears probing.

I don't see where this is happening? GiF/Mikan were my strong townreads at the start of the day

Gif's voting mikan ......

Generally my townreads cross-voting is not an issue, because there's usually an associated wall of rage from both posters where I can deduce alignment and either join in or reflect back on the flip later.

Unless it's LYLO, then I'm screwed.

There has been no accompanying wall of rage and if today we mislynch tomorrow it's 3-2-2 barring no cross-kill. So, does GIF voting mikan bother you?

@Skitter You have kind of pushed both GiF and Beefster this phase; and while you are voting for Beefster, do you have a clear position?

See above.

[skitter30]

Like ... you agree with me that the wagon was kinda compromise-y and that opposing scum might be on it, so why don't you seem to be much concerned about this?

Because I was scumreading RF?
Like all these "concerns" (Oh noes wagon went weird it must be on town etc) you mention doesn't really have the same effect in multiball.

Like the wagon was filled with bad votes. I don't think that the fact that it's multiball means that the bad votes ought to be ignored.

[skitter30]

The wagon was god-awful and I can't believe that I'm the only person who sees that.

LYNCH: RedFlavor (7) - Kop, GuyInFreezer, Not_Mafia, Sesq, Beefster, Hawk, Mikan Tsumiki

It's a town wagon in multiball. Kop flipped green. Are you really trying to discredit the notion that amongst {Gif/NM/Sesq/Beef/Hawk/Mikan} there's likely to be scum?

A good portion of these votes are *really*, *really* bad, and I can pick apart the wagon one by one if you need me to. I think Beef's was the worse, especially since he's like blaming GIF for the wagon even though he participated in it.

(In the one game I played with you I made a huge thing about how gross the screen wagon was so you think that this isn't something town!me does because ...?)

[skitter30]

You think I'm scummy because ... ?

You think I'm wrong about the Red wagon because ... ?

You think I'm wrong about your vote because ... ?

[skitter30]

I can't abide by you voting for Beefster yet criticising the wagon and not really pushing any other angle (other than my Kop post I guess). This doesn't look like the town Skitter I know.

Since you didn't really respond to my last post, can you explain:

a) Why you have a problem with me voting Beef even though I'm criticizing the wagon. One of the major reasons I'm scumreading him - and therefore voting him - is because of how he interacted with it. Specifically because he let GIF talk him into voting pretty easily, like without really evaluating it for himself, but then blamed him for it today. Like yesterday he was happy to go along with whatever was being pushed (this is one of those complacency votes I was talking about before) but today he tried to duck responsibility for being on a townflip by blaming GIF.

Why can't you 'abide' my Beef vote exactly? Like I don't really get why you're treating 'voting Beef' and 'criticizing the wagon and not really pushing any other angle' as being like contradictory or mutually exclusive notions.

b) why you don't like my criticism of the wagon in general? Like I strongly believe that there's very likely scum on that wagon given that it was a townflip in multiball and someone on it already flipped green. Is this a premise you disagree with?

c) how you think this differs from my towngame?

[skitter30]

Can a lynch not happen until we hear from both replacements please?

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:

To make that less likely to happen.

[skitter30]

I haven't read the entirety of day 1 but I don't like much the mikan votes.

Why? I think they're rather scummy.

A)The speed of the Beefster wagon makes me think the RF lynch wasn't scumpiling;

I don't understand the connection between the first half of this quote and the second half.

B)Kop's iso reads as low key no content: with susp on mikan and tatl , but not enough that it looks like defensive NK. -> I guess the NK was targetting a possible low poster flying under the radar doc.
C)The Taetl iso looks like a bunch a crap I'm hard pressed to see the rhyme to that kill so won't speculated there.

Did you get to Tatl's twilight posts? Wasn't such a huge jump from those posts to the fact that he might be the doc.

Man TD rep-out post still bothers me.

+1

(also mathblade and mathdino are different people)

VCs.

(1) Was Not Mafia an RVS wagon?
(2) Was the RedFlavour wagon a counter to Beefster's? (Meanwhile my slot was wagoned too.)
(3) Who was scum here?

Kop

, GuyInFreezer, Not_Mafia, Sesq, Beefster,

Hawk

, Mikan Tsumiki

(2) and (3) looks important, especially because the Beefster-wagon seemed to fade into nothingness.

1. iirc, yes. At least, I don't think that any reason was given for it beyond lol!NM.

2. Kinda? Beef happened, collapsed, there was a bunch of scattered votes, Hawk happened somewhere, and then GIF got Red to happen. I don't recall offhand if Red was a signifcant wagon between Beef the lynch. Beef consistently had a few votes throughout the whole day phase I think.

3. Unknown. I think Beef = Mikan > Gif > NM > Sesq, although I don't understand NM or Sesq and Sesq was voting someone she thought was town. I think the wagon is gross but this premise is meeting resistance. I'm in middle of trying to get sky to explain to me why he's objecting to me trying to analyze wagon but he hasn't responded in a few days, so yeah.

What has his replacement done so far?

Roleplay, causing Mumble to replace out.

I have a very reaching tinfoil theory of Sky/Mikan blueteam.
How far should I speculate this?

I'd be very interested in hearing about this theory.

Was Technical Difficulties a hydra? Regardless of the answer this post is scummy.

Yes a hydra, yes like all of their posts were scummy since the very beginning.

Was the Beefster-wagon launched by TD, in 167? Sesq and RedFlavour jumped on it on the same page. Than came Iconeum. And Sky Paladin.

Yes, TD started it. I picked it apart 195

In post 405, Tatl and Tael wrote:
First off you're scum
Second off I've survived the first night of my presence in game one game this year and it's also my only win
Gif is scum trying to bait the doc off me to kill me
If I am dead 1) doc is a moron and 2) speedlynch gif

And he got Nightkilled, didn't he?

Yes, and flipped doc too. (RC is Tael or Tatl or whichever head of that hydra he is; Alisae is Mikan)

[skitter30]

@mod: v/la till Friday

[skitter30]

Sorry, had a boatload of hw due today but have time for this now.

Putting this here cuz I found the kill flavor confusing:

Ice mafia killed: TT, Aneninen
Fire mafia killed: Kop, NM

Beef flipped town, RF flipped town.

There's 7 players alive, 4 town, 2 ice mafia, 1 fire mafia.

I kinda think that we probably want to lynch the fire mafia today so that we don't have two kills tonight.
----------

I guess I'm just going to ramble a bit about where I'm at. I don't have many firm conclusions though.

Mikan is very, very likely scum imo. I've been saying that throughout the game and I havne't really seen anything townie from the slot like at all.

I'm having a lot of trouble seeing town!sky; I think his vote on me yesterday was gross and he feels very band-wagon-y and oppurtunistic in a holistic sense.

Iconeum I haven't really seen anything scummy from, nor have I seen anything specifically townie recently. I guess they're town by default cuz there has to be town somewhere? Idk, I don't really feel confident about it.

Sesq's posts confuse me. I can kinda see sesq/hawk as being a thing since both hawk and aneninen were soft-defending her and her playstyle a lot. I guess I feel like she's lynchbait if town and the fact that there was never a serious push on her is a little bit surprising to me.

I didn't really have a read on Mumble. Spring's posts are really weird; I'm having a lot of trouble understanding how she's been coming to her conclusions. Spring/sesq probably isn't a thing. I don't really understand where her readlslist is coming from (especially the strong townread on Mikan)

I guess GIF is more likely town than not as well, but I don't feel confident about it either. Still don't like his involvement in the RF wagon. I don't think he's a hawk partner (their fight over the pl on nm doesn't really feel like partners to me).

@GIF: What do you think about the fact that RC wanted you lynched if he died?

--------
tldr:

{GIF, Iconuem}
{Sesq} -- null
{sky/spring}
{mikan}

probably not hawk partners: GIF,
maybe a hawk partner - Sesq

(I want to go through Hawk/Aneninen's ISO to get a better feel for who partners may or may not be.)

-------

going to go through today's posts now.

[skitter30]

Who were scumreading NM again?

Hawk had NM as a consistent scumread, and Aneninen was building up to an NM push.

I agree Mikan is almost certainly scum with that give-up message so consider my vote there in spirit.

OK, why was that a give-up message? I don't really like your sudden read-reversal on Mikan.

All I'm saying is gif has 4 to 5 days to mislynch me before I powerlynch him because he's a fucking wolf

Why did you come to this conclusion? And if you think he's a wolf, why didn't you try to lynch him before now?

If GiF R-rushes my lynch today b-before getting a chance to o-out other reads o-or to let me explain my read on him, then he's scum because he scared of me being a threat. I deserve to have my reads outed because I am town a

I mean, you had an entirety of like four posts day2 so it doesn't really seem like you're much interested in sharing your thoughts with us anyways.

Mikan Tsumiki - scum / Most sure about this one, pretty sure partnered with aneninen based on ISO. If anyone cares I can go into further detail here.

Yes, I'd be interested in this; I've been having trouble figuring out who hawk's partner would be. (Or who Mikan's partner might be)

How does 300 and 310 fit into your partner theory?

If anyone cares I can go into further detail here.

Please do.
Cos I see Sky as very strong potential partner of Mikan.

Why?

[skitter30]

OK, why does that point to town!you?

[skitter30]

I'd seriously love an explanation on that Mikan town read bro

Can you explain how you got these partners?

Sky_Paladin - scum / not with Mikan
Sesq - town
Mikan Tsumiki - scum / Most sure about this one, pretty sure partnered with aneninen based on ISO. If anyone cares I can go into further detail here.
skitter30 - not sure
GuyInFreezer - town
Springlullaby - not sure

[skitter30]

springlullaby is ice and tried to frame me

Is this accurate:

You said you would kill ane, and you're saying that since ane was fire mafia who died to ice mafia, the ice mafia is trying to frame you as having performed the kill?

I guess I'm a little skeptical of spring deliberately trying to frame you since she started pushing you before you said that and didn't bring up the ane death until you did.

I dislike the following though:

Sesq, whereas I was scum I wouldn't see the point of your "gambit". Me being town just make me go wut about your reasoning. I have zero control over NK's so what you are saying is akin to me saying, "yeah sesq is scum who killed Aneninen to frame me by saying that I killed Aneninem to frame him"

That kind of logic is just bad and not townie and I don't know how people are not reading it as scum. Plus the casual jokes about who you are going to NK, it's just piling up.

Yeah the logic is bad and not townie ... but I don't think it's scummy either. It's just ... bad. I don't really get why you're pushing it as being inherently scummy when it's just ???.

[skitter30]

but Technical Difficulties's #225 (IIRC) is a strong town read from my going through D1

Yeah but posting that after he asked to be replaced is kinda weird and kinda makes me think he just did it for the towncred.

Beefster was quite obviously town to me just on account of the speed of his wagon. You better bet that, esp in multiball, there will be resistance to a wagon on scum.

Yeah but the scumteams only have two players apiece so I'm not sure how much resistance that there would be.

BTW, this is actually a good post from skitter BUT it lacks a vote.

I want to vote mikan but sesq isn't on it and I know that a lot of people are interested in it and I don't want the day to end just yet by a lolvote.

How do you explain the read change between 167 and 225, where TD goes from scum!beefster to town!beefster? That's a full 180 there.

Tbf, two different hydra heads wrote those two different posts, so idk if that's necessarily scummy.

Whose alt/hydro is Mikan? It occupes to me it was larking or rp'ing or something.

Yeah it's a rp alt of alisae

[skitter30]

I kinda think that we probably want to lynch the fire mafia today so that we don't have two kills tonight.

GIF, what do you think about this?

[skitter30]

I kinda think that we probably want to lynch the fire mafia today so that we don't have two kills tonight.

GIF, what do you think about this?

Guess that's optimal.
I have no leads on the fire one though.

Then I guess I think it's probably suboptimal for you to want a Mikan lynch today given that you strongly think they're partners with sky.

[skitter30]

Then I guess I think it's probably suboptimal for you to want a Mikan lynch today given that you strongly think they're partners with sky.

GIF, I actually find it quite troubling that you started the day pushing for an Alisae lynch given that you think they're ice mafia; it's kinda hard for me to believe that you've overlooked the notion that it's obviously optimal to find fire mafia today.

Its much more likely that Scum shot RC in attempt to pin me for shooting him after RC's twilight read on me in attempts to help score my mislynch.
Therefore, GiF's read is not a naturally formed response.

I mean, it is possible that scum shot RC to frame you, but from my POV, it's just as likely that scum!you shot RC because you thought he was going to push you the next day, and that you're now brushing off the connection as a frame attempt.

Like idk if the RC kill directly points to scum!you .... but I don't think it directly points to you being framed either. They're both valid WIFOM-y options to me, so I'm not putting super much thought into the implications of the RC kill especially since it could just be he got killed cuz they figured out he was the doc, or for some other reason altogether. Like idk if the RC kill is directly related to you, meant to look like it was related to you when it wasn't, or not related to you at all, and I don't really think there's a way for me to come to any firm conclusions about this, so I'm just kinda ignoring it, cuz otherwise I'm probably just going to get stuck pondering WIFOM.

Why would you ever shoot someone who has mislynch equitity?

Yeah that's why the NM and Kop kills are kinda bizarre to me.

I don't really like GIF's reaction to the NM kill tbh. Like he said that it likely came from someone who was scumreading him and was looking for scum from the opposing team. I guess the next thing I'd do there if I believed that would be to go look at the people who scumread NM and see which of them makes sense to have performed the kill. But he just kinda dropped that idea and never really followed up on it so it felt like he was just largely shading anyone who scumread NM without actually doing anything about it.

And it felt kinda distance-y and posture-y since GIF had been loudly proclaiming a townread on NM - if he floats the idea that someone with a scumread on NM killed him, it kinda distances him from the kill.

their FoS on Skitter seems like they are just forming reads on the spot.

Tbh I don't often have people complaining about the wallposts and also say that I'm low-content at the same time.

Spring is making no attempt to get a read on my own play because she knows I'm town.

I don't think it's possible for her to know that you're town even if she's scum given that it's multiball. I don't think that you're scum together, but from her POV if she's scum it's quite possible that you're opposing-team scum.

Her read on me is extremely lacking in that its day 3 and there should be more then enough information to get a read off of my slot. It really doesn't feel like she's trying to sort my alignment here. And if her townread on me is so strong then it really doesn't feel like she's making any attempt to really defend my lynch, if anything it feels like she doesn't care if it goes through. Hence why I asked for a towncase, if she was town and thought I was town and had a strong townread on me, she would attempt to do everything in her power to make sure I am not the lynch today. However she's not doing that.

+1

(Although I disagree with the notion that your slot is town; my read is still mostly based on TD cuz you haven't really been posting much. Most AI thing I got from *you* is that I don't like your Red vote - he was obviously a new player and I think that you calling him scummy for finding the rp scummy is kinda predatory given that I'm pretty sure you know that the rp made it harder for people to read you.)

When it comes to Icon, I would like to see why he thinks I'm the pigeon's partner, but I kinda just think he's scum for attempting to rush my lynch today. Like I kinda don't get why he's in such a hurry.

Kinda agree. I want you lynched, but I don't want you lynched *right now*. I think that the day can still be used to sort other people. I'm not sold on scum!Ico tbh, but I do feel :/ about GIF and spring.

BTW, just throwing another wrench in there, this is multiball, no scum can actually know that another player isn't scum. This is just eww from Alisae and makes me thing ego parade OMGUS more than scum because it's just so dumb.

Anyway. I'll be reviewing the game once more sometimes tomorrow, put in a definitive vote and call it a day.

I don't like how easily you dropped the Alisae townread when they questioned you on it.

[skitter30]

And it felt kinda distance-y and posture-y since GIF had been loudly proclaiming a townread on NM - if he floats the idea that someone with a scumread on NM killed him, it kinda distances him from the kill.

I can only see NM kill as an attempt to xkill. Like, think about it for just a bit. Would killing NM for wifom reason worth it when there are others?

...You know what, I'll just come clean. I'm just mostly salty that even he get to eat a nightkill over me.

I mean, I don't disagree with the notion that he was probably an attempted cross-kill. However, I don't think I agree with the idea that scum who were thinking about cross-killing would have necessarily expressed a scumread in thread. I'm not saying that they *wouldn't*, so much as I think that 'attempting to cross-kill NM' isn't particularly correlated with 'expressing a scumread on him in-thread'.

And either way, I don't like the way you reacted to it since it felt like you were trying to distance from it.

Its being pushed, therefore it was probably a frame job.

Just because GIF is pushing it doesn't imply that he did the kill to frame you given multiball; I am seriously considering the possibility of ice-mafia-you and fire-mafia-gif.

In that scenario, you killed RC and are trying to brush it off as a frame attempt, and GIF saw that this was something he could push you with even though he had no involvement.

I'm not sure what you are referring to but to recap if isolated, I a)read TD as town, b) read Alisae as annoying, even more so with the putting forth of dumbs argument that I underlined.

I'm trying to separate the two not to get all my reads jumbled up because of dislike of the later's posting but Alisae is not protown, that much is clear. Though the sheer ego-ness, defensive over the top tone of the posts make me think more annoying than scum.

Sorry, I misread your post; I thought you were saying that they were being ego-y on purpose and that it was scummy.

So yeah I'm basicly sheeping this read at this point

Form your own reads based on your own conclusions.
Plus I can bring up multiple quotes where RC as said that he cannot read me reliably.

Can you eli5 why it's scummy for iconeum to be doing this? ie why he isn't just being lazy and/or inept town? (And more specifically why you think it points to him being ice-mafia in particular?)

man I never knew telling people that they're incompetent and that they're trash could be so god dam fun.

Can you not?

You think I'm town

I don't. By the time you replaced in, your slot was scummy cuz of TD, so that became my default read on the slot from that point on until/unless you do something to change that read. And since then, I don't think you've done anything particularly town-motivated. Or, more accurately, I think you're completely capable of faking the vaguely town-motivated things you've done - scumhunting today. (Especially given multiball)

(I call it 'vague' cuz I think that you're trying to look town today cuz you're actually in danger of being lynched. IE I think that the scumhunting is at least partially a survival tactic, as opposed to you just doing it cuz you want to find scum)

Also I don't like how you keep on arguing that people's scumreads on you are bad because they know you're town when it's

literally impossible for anyone to know that in multiball

[skitter30]

What do you guys think about the convo Hawk/GIF had starting around 272? Could it be between partners?

[skitter30]

I don't think I support an iconeum lynch tbh. I don't think he's done anything particularly scummy, especially when compared to other players. The fact that the people I *do* find scummy are pushing this is making me kinda wary of it.

[skitter30]

Yes, I'm aware.

I don't think he's scummy. You haven't explained to me why he's scummy (And not just inept town). Given multiball, I might follow even you there if I independantly thought he was scummy, but I don't.

Like I don't think he's scummy in the first place, and the fact that you and sky want it makes it even more dubious.

[skitter30]

I kinda said this already, but in case it wasn't obvious, I don't think it's a scum slot. Or more accurately, I don't think he's done anything actively scummy, and in comparison to multiple other players (you, alisae, gif, and spring), he seems townie, and he's probably like my fifth or sixth choice of a lynch today, out of six players. I think a lot of the things people are using to call him scummy might just be signs that he's new. I haven't seen anything inherently scummy from him.

Also I can't just ignore who's voting for there.

Also I had read your post.

I had looked at the vcs prior to your post and I didn't find anything particularly conclusive imo.

I feel like your post is kinda designed to push a narrative tbh, because you say:

So I am interested especially in people who found a reason to vote not!Hawk, because those players might be the other Fire scum, and I agree that our strat should be finish off the red team so there's one less night kill a time.

Which I think is very valid and a good place to look for Hawk partners.

You say about me:

Skitter had also been voting Hawk and empty-unvoted right before this vote count had gone out; she switched to Beefster.

But your lynchpool, based on hawk votes, is iconeum, gif, mikan. I'm not in it, and GIF was previously a townread and alisae cross-voted, and I don't really feel like you're actually interested in my unvote or the alisae cross vote given that you don't follow up with either of these anywhere.

I kinda feel like your post was more about justifying an iconeum push than actually looking at the hawk votes tbh.

[skitter30]

Emphasis mine. That's an interesting choice of words. May I presume he has done something actively towny to make you town read him? Please indicate where/how.

No, he hasn't, which is why I said that; I elaborated in the rest of the paragraph. I don't townread anyone right now, so I'm resorting to ranking people by how scummy I find them. He's like the fifth/tied-for-fifth/sixth least scummy person. (I'm having trouble deciding if I townread sesq more or less than him). He hasn't done anything townie recently, but he hasn't done anything scummy either, which makes him less scummy than my scumreads, so I want him lynched less than them.

I don't think the reasons given to scumread him are particularly compelling, or at least, I don't think they do much to explain why he's scummy and not just new town.

These appear to directly contradict each other. Could you please clarify for me?

I thought it was a good idea to look at the Hawk voters. I had. After doing so, I don't think that the Hawk votes were particuarly conclusive or gave any solid leads, which is why I didn't really have much to say about your vca.

the Beefster/GiF wagons terrible even though you wanted to push both of them

I liked the GIF wagon. I didn't like that Beef had joined it and I wanted to leave it cuz he joined it, which told me I scumread Beef more so I voted there. I never had a problem with the Beef wagon (I unvoted solely cuz I didn't want a lolhammer while there were two slots that weren't doing anything; we ended up having a lolhammer like the next day IRL anyways.)

or tldr: I was cool with a wagon on either of them but the way beef joined gif made me want to vote beef more than gif cuz I didn't like his vote. I left beef cuz I didn't want a lolhammer with two empty slots

I still don't get what you don't like about this, and I don't think I called either wagon terrible. (I called the *red* wagon terrible, cuz it was. I also called *my* wagon terrible, cuz it was). I don't think I called either of the beef or gif wagons terrible. I did say that I didn't like beef joining the gif wagon.

I still think GIF is sketchy and I think I might be voting for him shortly. (I'm trying to come to some sort of conclusion whether or not that convo I linked comes from partners).

When you switched your vote off of Hawk and on to Beefster, you didn't join in the push on Red Flavor,

Hawk and red weren't concurrent so these two things have like nothing to do with each other. Like I was actively v/la for like the entirety of the formation of the red wagon so the fact that you're using that as a reason I'm not a hawk partner is silly.

(Although tbf I wouldn't have voted there anyways if I was around cuz I was townreading him)

That's because it is. I am trying to correlate what has happened in the game so far and project it to an end - and then make alignment guesses based on where I feel that path is going

Yes, I agree that the goal of the game is to look at what's happened and to use that to make informed guesses about what's happening, but I feel like you aren't sharing what you're actually thinking, so much as looking for things that you can push. Like you feel pre-meditated and planned. Like you're pushing this because you can push it and you think it'll gain traction, and not so much cuz you actually think he's scummy and want to lynch scum.

I'm 'not interested' in your unvote of Hawk because I don't think you are Fire mafia; and if you are mafia with any of Mikan/GiF/Icon that excludes that player from being Fire. Icon could easily be either Fire or Ice mafia, and so that's why I'm favouring the vote there. I AM interested in you hating on both the GiF/Beefster wagons, but less so now that Beefster has flipped green - you could legitimately be town hating two wagons, or you could be scum buddying. WIFOM.

a) I wasn't aware that your scumread on me was so big that you're POE'ing teams (and therefore potential Fire mafia) based on whether or not they could be partners with me

(IE this feels like something you just made up to respond to me saying I didn't like your post, as opposed to something you've been thinking this entire time)

b) I think your reasoning for me not being a hawk partner is silly and completely inconclusive given that the red wagon happened while I was v/la.

c) You say 'you're not interested in my Hawk unvote cuz you don't think I'm fire mafia', but then you say 'you don't plausibly see me being fire mafia cuz of the unvote' - you're reasoning for why I'm not fire mafia is the hawk unvote as far as I can tell? Like you're using the conclusion as the premise so this is really twisty circular logic. I'm not fire mafia cuz of the hawk unvote, but my hawk unvote isn't interesting cuz I'm not fire mafia.

d) I feel like there's something else very twisty with the logic in this paragraph but I can't figure out what it is right now; I'll get back to it if I figure it out.

The Mikan/Hawk vote is interesting, but not as interesting as Mikan pushing for Spring.

I find that mikan/hawk vote to be *super* interesting given that we *know* hawk to be scum but we don't know about the alignments of mikan or spring or icon or you or me or gif or sesq.

[skitter30]

Idk. I feel kinda stuck with this game, and I fell l

[skitter30]

Skiiiiiiitter who are you going to vote for.

I feel like you want to vote GiF because you've wanted to since forever, but you're not voting because...?

Idk. I feel kinda stuck with this game, and I fell l

Whoops, sorry, I was on my way to a thing and hit submit accidentally before I finished the thought.

Basically, idk. My goal for today is to find fire mafia, but I feel kinda stuck - people aren't posting and I feel like I'm basically talking to my scumreads. I have a scumpool - you/GIF/Alisae/spring - and I think that most, if not all, scum are within that group. I really want to bounce my ideas off of someone I think town, but my townreads aren't posting. The townreads aren't even that strong anyways, but to refine them I'd like need to talk to them .....

I don't think you're partners with Hawk. Or at least, I don't see anything either pointing towards that or ruling it out. Same with Spring/Mumble.

I'm not joining a wagon pushed by my scumreads on someone I don't scumread.

I'm basically trying to decide if I'm going to vote GIF or Alisae. Probably Alisae cuz I'm very confidant the slot is scum even if I'm not sure if it's Fire mafia.

I'm leaning against thinking that GIF is fire mafia cuz I think that convo that I linked *probably* doesn't come from partners. I really want input on that but you're the only person who responded and I don't really trust you right now.

I'm also kinda wary of setting down a vote cuz I've kinda gotten the vibe that scum may have figured out who each other are at this point, and I'm worried that if I vote a townie scum will pile on.

Actually I think I'm just going to vote Alisae. I don't know if I'm going to make much headway figuring out fire mafia while talking to myself. Even if they're not fire mafia, I'm fairly confidant that Alisae's scum.

VOTE: Alisae

[skitter30]

Dear Alisae:
I don't think you're town and your Red vote was awful.

[skitter30]

Dear Alisae,

That isn't the only reason I scumread you; I was trying to write something parallel to your 'you're bad for not voting scum'. I'm not using a hammer vote as a justifcation for a scumread. (ie the fact that it was a hammer isn't the issue)

Math was scummy cuz he was being LAMIST and was like looking for towncred. Impede was scummy cuz he was making things to push so he'd look busy. Your vote on red was gross (not cuz you hammered a scumread but cuz you know quite well that the rp alt was hard for people to read and you using that as an excuse to scumread a guy that new for saying that he didn't like it is scummy). I think you're putting up a show of scumhunting today cuz you'd have been lynched if you didn't start doing something; it's a survival tactic from you as far as I can tell.

I don't think Icon is scummy and I won't be voting them until you can tell me why they aren't new town.

I think your slot is scummier than Spring and the fact that like all of my scumreads want it is suspicious (yes multiball, yes aids, no that doesn't change my mind)

[skitter30]

/shrug

You can keep posting that but that won't do much to change my mind.

[skitter30]

"

I don't care abut the game anymore I just want my only real read dead because I am incapable of re-evaluating" syndrome.

Those flip town 100% of the time.

Yes, I think I just said that. I don't care about the game super much and I can't re-evaluate cuz I don't trust any of the people posting right now, and if I can't bounce ideas off of someone I can't re-evaluate.

The only thing I'm sure of is that your slot is scum. I'm not sure about much else.

I don't think that these sorts of reads flip town 100% of the time; they haven't in my experience. It's the only thing that I feel good about in this gamestate and I'm trying to use my read on you to figure out the rest of this mess.

And you are in no way obvious town.

[skitter30]

No, I don't think so. I really haven't seen *anything* townie from your slot tbh. And the fact that you got wagoned means you aren't exactly obvtown to everyone else either.

I see little reason to believe you telling me that given that I think you're just going to say whatever you think will get me to unvote / change the read.

And why are you telling me I'm throwing the game? If you think I'm scum tunneling on town .... isn't this exactly what I want to be doing? I can only be throwing the game by tunneling on town!you if I'm town.

[skitter30]

What is town-motivated about Alisae play? Bashes everything and everyone that has a different opinion, not a single effort to try and get some form of town cohesion. Quite the opposite in fact.
I'm not calling spring town, but I am not voting where Alisae is.

I don't think Alisae is a fire scum sooooo

Right, and the fact that you started off the day voting for them given that you don't think they're fire mafia is kinda bothering me.

[skitter30]

I have a very reaching tinfoil theory of Sky/Mikan blueteam.
How far should I speculate this?

I'd be very interested in hearing about this theory.

[skitter30]

I have a very reaching tinfoil theory of Sky/Mikan blueteam.
How far should I speculate this?

I'd be very interested in hearing about this theory.

I mean I explained that few posts below that post already.

You mean in 579? So it's basically that you think both of them were involved in killing RC? I think that's kinda flimsy reasoning to put them in a team together since a lot of people (ie not just them) could have had motive to kill him, especially since it wasn't that hard to figure out that he was the doc (sky, you, and me at the very least figured that out; possibly others too who didn't mention it).

Like I could just as easily argue that you didn't want to deal with RC wanting to lynch you day2 if he had lived so you decided to pre-emptively kill him. I wouldn't try to build an ice mafia team around you based on who else may have wanted to kill him though cuz I think the pool of such people is too big and too ill-defined.

Plus I townread sesq and ico, and I don't think how skitter acted today is redscum sooooo

Why don't you think I'm redscum?

[skitter30]

Sky's post had just convinced me that you were actually bluescum cuz there wasn't a hammer, but I guess that's cuz like no one realized you were at L-1.

(I was in middle of writing a post about how I came to that conclusion and I was going to unvote but I kinda fell asleep before I posted it, so I guess that's a good thing).

Tbf it wasn't really you; it was mostly math, and mostly math's like first three posts, but you didn't do anything to make me think you were town like anywhere. Although I didn't know *which* scum you were, from my POV it wasn't the kind of read I was ever going to unsee or get talked out of; it was more a matter of waiting until enough people came to the same conclusion.

And yeah that hammer was *incredibly* scummy.

I think scum is:

Spring, gif, sky, icon, sesq, in that order.

[skitter30]

I think scum is:

Spring, gif, sky, icon, sesq, in that order.

Dunno why you have me up there when all the Fire Mafia is dead.

Honestly, my reads atm are gut - I don't have the words right now to explain what I'm thinking/feeling/seeing. I'd usually try to elaborate, but it's finals and I"m really, really, really not awake enough to try to do that right now. If I'm not like dead, I'll have time/motivation for this game on like Monday.

[skitter30]

OK so it's probably not Sesq/Spring. That doesn't rule Spring out from other combinations though.

Well, sesq-slot is dead, so yeah it can't be sesq/spring lol.

I agree that spring is probably scum, and that hammer was awful.

I need to reread day1 I think before I do anything though.

[skitter30]

I'm down 100% for lynching sky today. Skitter as secondary option.

Why are you most confidant on scum!sky?

[skitter30]

Okay guys you got me, I can't handle the pressure anymore, I'm Ice Mafia, you can leash me if you spare my life

VOTE: Not Mafia

Out your scumpartner so we can leash the both of you. Also, your name suggests otherwise and I don't like liars.
I guarantee cookies for complying.

Ofcourse. If his claim is real let's have him prove it.
I lied about the cookies though, but don't tell him that.

I really, really, don't think this comes from newb-bluescum. I feel like if bluescum saw someone fake-claiming bluescum, they wouldn't be so chill/casual/cavalier about it. There's like no awkwardness here; this is too natural a response to come from bluescum imo.

[skitter30]

LYNCH: RedFlavor (7) - Kop, GuyInFreezer, Not_Mafia, Sesq, Beefster, Hawk, Mikan Tsumiki

This kinda shows that if there's bluescum on Red it has to be GIF given that everyone else on the wagon flipped already. (I still maintain that was a horrific wagon on someone not that scummy and I still don't like that GIF pushed it.)

Both mislynches had both redscum on it, which is kinda weird. If there's bluescum on the Beef wagon, it's you or ico. I don't think that ico is bluescum. That's the thing I'm most confidant in right now.

Looking at day 3 - My natural thought is that if Spring is town, scum will want to have been spread over the wagons, which implicates GiF.

You're saying that if spring is town, there would have been one bluescum on Alisae and one on spring?

I personally expected GiF or myself to be the night kill because GiF had for a long time pushed the narrative of blue scum being Sky/Mikan, and with Mikan flipping red (and red being dead) that doesn't hold water any more. So, what better way to setup a GiF mislynch then by killing me and showing a green flip?

Skitter has wanted GiF lynched for most of the game - wouldn't that be enough?

If somebody wanted to push a mislynch on me, the easiest way would be to kill a player who I'd been focusing on. Is that why Kop was killed? Is that why Sesq was killed? But red killed Kop and blue killed Sesq. If both mafia teams hated me so much, why not just kill me? Or am I just obviously mislynchable?

I don't get why you think GIF might have been the nk because he was pushing sky/mikan. Like I don't get the connection between being the nk and pushing sky/mikan. And you're saying that killing you shows that GIF was wrong on you and Alisae so he'd be mislynchable? I don't get the connection between being wrong on {you/mikan} and becoming more mislynchable.

I don't really think that the nk points anywhere specifc tbh. Sesq-slot was largely townread and I don't think was particularly mislynchable so I think they just killed her to remove her and to let us continue pointing fingers at each other. I don't think it points to you. Offhand only person I remember having a signifcant scumread on her is spring. I don't really think you're being framed here tbh.

Also bolded almost sounds like you know I'm town - to mislynch town!GIF you'd need one townie on it, and it sounds like you think that's me. (and that by default scum is ico/spring if you're town, I'm town, and GIF is getting mislynched).

I feel like you're being kinda defensive of GIF? Or maybe that you're tying yourself to GIF? Or that you're kinda very-focused on GIF? Idk the right words for what I'm seeing. I had been reading some of the game earlier today and I'm reminded of this post I wrote:

This feels weirdly defensive of GIF tbh? Especially since you start off by saying that it's hard for you to 'derive intent from quite minimalistic posts'. Like his posts are hard for you to parse but you're going to use them to towncase him.

Also like it's weird timing? There isn't much pressure there and it's not like he was in imminent danger of being lynched, so the bolded feels kinda off.

[skitter30]

I don't really see any credible scum teams with GiF on them - I can accept players may be suspicious of GiF/Sky though. I've been leaning town on GiF for a good chunk of the game and I thought he'd be dead and I'd have to deal with Icon/Skitter scum.

I do think that you're the most likely GIF partner, yes (in a GIF scum world).

I don't townlean GIF; the most town-motivated thing I've seen him do is speak out against a NM PL. I haven't really gotten townvibes from him like at any other point this game, and that's concerning me. Why are you townleaning him?

From my position you and Icon have largely been in lock-step for a good chunk of the game

and that is the most appealing pick for a scum team but I want to make sure I'm not just confirmation biasing it.

OK, where's the bolded happening?

I am concerned that you've both 'independently' come to pick me as your preferred lynch because neither of you have really considered the night kill or implications of the lynch - despite you calling Spring's hammer scummy - and Icon's insistence that he's obv-town because he helped lynch red. That doesn't follow. I also categorically disagree that he's newb-town because the quality of his posts are higher than what I would consider to be new.

a) where did I ever say you're my preferred lynch today? I don't know who my preferred lynch is right now; I don't believe I ever stated who I wanted to lynch today - closest thing I said to that is that I said that I think that spring's hammer was scummy. Like I literally never said you're my preferred lynch today (or even yesterday. Maybe I did day2, I don't remember), so I don't get how you can possibly be using that as a reason to scumread me or teamread me/ico when it

never happened

.

b) I didn't say anything about the scum-kill cuz I don't think it means much. I think they just removed someone who was kinda inconsequential but largely townread, leaving the gamestate in basically the same muddled mess it's been in for a while. Like I don't think the nk points to anyone, which is why I didn't bring it up.

c) I feel like you're scumreading me specifically for not doing stuff yet when like *no one else* has done stuff yet.

d) that's not why I'm townreading ico. Or, more accurately, I don't actually townread him - it's more like I 'don't-bluescum-read him', which means he has to be town.

e) What do you think about the spring hammer?

It seems like neither of you are really looking for logical scum pairs - you're just looking for a (any) lynch. That bothers me a lot.

Where am I looking for any lynch?

You literally just told me that I've indicated that you're my preferred lynch. Which is it?

I don't think I've said anything about my lynch preferences today so I don't know how you can argue that I'm both looking for any lynch and also indicated that you're my preferred lynch when I've literally never talked about it at all.

Like I kinda feel like you're just making stuff up cuz you're using things that I never said or did to scumread me.

[skitter30]

I'm beginning to entertain the idea, because he's using the claim that I wanted to lynch him earlier as a reason to scumread me, when I've done no such thing, so I feel like he's just making stuff up.

[skitter30]

@sky:

Do you want me to go through that line by line? And can you please respond to the things I've bolded?

You kinda misrep me in a bunch of places or are at best misreading my posts.

Other than this there is nothing really important to the lynch/current game state until 181 where Skitter voices opposition to Hawk's policy vote on NM, and his list of reads - which is valid given Hawk flips scum.

Like 181 wasn't about Hawk, it was about Beef, so idk what you're talking about here.

Skitter's 195 responds to Mumble/Spring re the Beefster wagon. She specifically picks TD as scum, but not with Beef; which implies she reads both as scum slots and is supporting this by currently voting Beef.

And I was voting TD at the time; I specifically made a whole thing about not joining TD on their wagon.

-----------

A few things:

So that's a long way to say: Skitter's excuse for not being on the Hawk wagon was because she was scumreading Beefster more, but that's not consistent with her reads, and the drop of Hawk as a scum read seems weirdly timed.

Because the Hawk wagon changed my read both on Beef and Hawk?

I would have thought Skitter would consolidate onto one of her other scum reads, which at the time consisted of TD, but she declined voting there previously because there wasn't enough votes on the TD wagon.
At the time she switched to Beefster, Beefster was on one vote - the other voter was Icon. Is this significant enough to warrant a vote there over TD?

Yes? I don't see the point at starting vanity-wagons towards the end of the day if I know that it won't go anywhere.

Yes, I am aware Skitter argues that it's different because Beefster let GiF 'talk him into voting RF' so it's not fair to hold Gif accountable, and I also think that's not a real thing.

Blaming someone else for a wagon that you let them talk you into joining with like no resistance is incredibly scummy to me. It's dogding responsiblity for your vote, and yeah, I had issues with Beef blaming GIF for the wagon when he happily joined him on it.

Why is this not a real thing?

-----------

I kinda feel like you approached my ISO with the intent of finding me scummy and are just finding reasons to back up that read, and are dismissing anything I may have done that could be town-motivated. That's kinda epitomized by:

Day 3 Skitter helped lynch Mikan who flipped scum; so we can't find scum intent behind it easily.

----------

The main one I want to address is: I was under the impression you were scum reading me. Having reviewed your game to this extent I can see I had imagined it because of our frequent disagreements during day 2.

Yeah, I'm kinda scumreading you, and have been for a while right now.

What I never did was say you were my preferred lynch, which is not at all the same thing as finding you scummy, and I'm taking great issue at you putting words in my mouth like that. And yeah, now I kinda want to cuz I feel like you're just blatantly making stuff up and misrepping me.

Thing is I'm not sure right now if my read on you is getting influenced by me getting annoyed cuz you're making stuff up - I can't tell if you're conf-biased or if you're just willfully misrepping me.

and largely ignoring Spring/GiF.

Kinda hard to engage with people that aren't here.

I can see from your position that it may look incredibly contrived and convenient that I would scumread both you and Icon.

I don't really care about your read on Icon right now tbh - I don't think he's getting lynched today so it doesn't matter too much.

I do object to your read on me since it seems to me like you're just making bullshit up and are misreading my posts and are using things I didn't say or do to find me suspicious. So yeah, I agree that your read on my does look rather contrived.

I've also seen that your read on Icon seems to have been created out of thin air and that concerns me - you did briefly null read him at the start of day 2 however.

For like the four trillionth time, I don't townread him. My actual read on him is null, but I explicilty don't think he's blue scum, so he's town by default.

Can you tell me what you think about 852 and why you disagree with this conclusion?

[skitter30]

I kinda feel like I'm letting myself get distracted by sky.

Out of everyone, I think that spring is most likely scum - she's been coasting for days now and providing very little content, and the hammer yesterday on someone she townread was atrocious.

Going through spring's ISO:

603 - sky likes TD's readslist in part 'for the use of an image to demonstrate a very valid point' -> I just realized the very valid point is that TD used that image to demonstrate his townread on mumble-slot. This actually kinda looks like she's using TD's readslist to bolster a townread on her slot?

OK, reading through the rest of her posts, and the main thing she does is defend the townread on TD despite badposting from alisae. I'm overall really confused as to the motivation of holding such a strong townread on someone for like two gamedays and doing like nothing else (and then hammering the townread when the oppurtunity came around). There's like very little scum-hunting from her at any point.

[skitter30]

skitter cos his reasons for scumreading me is expired/baited.
By baited, I mean literally going after me for "leading the mislynch" on RF when really all I've done was rallying people who were already scumreading RF. Opportune, etc.

(she please)

I don't really think 'all you've done was rallying people who were already scumreading RF' is entirely accurate:

Spoiler:

Hawk and RedFlavour are obvscum

Convince me

Read RF's iso

-Tatl

Bring Tael here
Tell him to read RF's iso
and put that vote to where it belongs.

@N_M let's lynch RF pls

Some of the people on the wagon were already scumreading him, but some of the people were not and you canvassed their vote.

----------------

Honestly, I'm not entirely sure how to read you. You have a lot of posts, but I don't find a lot of them to be AI. I guess I'm trying to figure out if you appear to be more town-or-scum motivated.

I think the most town-motivated thing you did was stall off an nm pl, but I don't think that's particularly unfakeable; I certainly don't find it a strong reason to townread you.

You weren't exactly playing to avoid the nk, which is I guess kinda a silly way for scum to play it, especially since red scum appear to have been looking for members of the opposing team in each of their kills.

The only person you kinda make sense as a partner with is sky - I don't think ico is bluescum and you had ample oppurtunity yesterday to hammer alisae instead of sitting on the L-1 spring wagon; doesn't make much sense to sit on your partner's L-1 wagon when there was a counterwagon at L-1.

I really don't like the rf wagon.

I didn't like the way that you responded to the NM kill, as I felt like you were kinda distancing yourself from it, but that is no longer relevant since you can't be redscum.

The more that I think about it, I think I just gut scumread you. I don't have any concrete reason for doing so. I don't really think I have a good reason to townread you either though, except that you haven't been trying to avoid the nk.

My conclusion after all of that is that I don't know how to read you and I don't want to lynch you today.

[skitter30]

I don't really think 'all you've done was rallying people who were already scumreading RF' is entirely accurate

I meant that's how I created the wagon.
I voiced my own suspicion vs RF and I remember saying that I take full responsibility with that with pride.

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

-------------

876 - my point is that the progression on alisae was gross and seemed more like she saw that an alisae wagon was gaining momentum so she changed her read to allow herself to vote there.

-------------

I found evidence that admitted fabricated at least some of her reads in my previous bloc and I don’t specifically know if that was addressed

Sky, this never happened. I didn't fabricate anything. You didn't show me fabricating anything.

You're using things that never happened to substantiate your case.

Here's another example:

Between Skitter/Icon, I think Icon has the stronger town play though I would like explanations of how

he is now town reading Skitter

and scum reading me. This doesn't appear to have developed naturally.

Spoiler: Icons read on me

Sky_Paladin - scum / not with Mikan
Sesq - town
Mikan Tsumiki - scum / Most sure about this one, pretty sure partnered with aneninen based on ISO. If anyone cares I can go into further detail here.
skitter30 - not sure
GuyInFreezer - town
Springlullaby - not sure

This is a copy of my previous readlist.

I'm down 100% for lynching sky today. Skitter as secondary option.

other thoughts?

Interesting that we don't have flips on any of the players who voted Alisae. I personally expected GiF or myself to be the night kill because GiF had for a long time pushed the narrative of blue scum being Sky/Mikan, and with Mikan flipping red (and red being dead) that doesn't hold water any more. So, what better way to setup a GiF mislynch then by killing me and showing a green flip? Skitter has wanted GiF lynched for most of the game - wouldn't that be enough?
If somebody wanted to push a mislynch on me, the easiest way would be to kill a player who I'd been focusing on. Is that why Kop was killed? Is that why Sesq was killed? But red killed Kop and blue killed Sesq.

If both mafia teams hated me so much, why not just kill me? Or am I just obviously mislynchable?

Or, more likely, you are scum

I'm also interested in you proving that i've been working together with skitter.
Because if you flip scum, I'm putting him at 50/50 with spring as your partner.

Notice how I'm his second biggest scumread in all the posts he has today wherein he mentions a read on me.

Sky, you're using evidence that doesn't exist to back up your conclusions.

------------------

I'm becoming increasingly concerned by the lack of content from spring / gif and I kinda feel like they're content to just let me/sky/ico argue it out between us.

P-edit: I haven't read through sky's last post.

[skitter30]

I kinda want to lynch spring more than sky.

Sky is at best super-conf-biased, and I really, really feel like he should be re-evaluating things using facts instead of just making stuff up to support his conclusions, and is ignoring me when I'm pointing this out. It's really hard for me to see this coming from town in LYLO.

Thing that's giving me pause is that the last time I said it's really hard for me to see his behavior coming from town in MYLO, I voted him and that lost town the game, so yeah, I'm feeling kinda wary about doing the same thing.

P-edit: Sky, I'm on mobile atm and it was the easiest thing for me to pick out to prove my point without opening up six billion tabs. Planning on going through the rest of it when I get off mobile in a bit.

[skitter30]

OK, going through this now.

OK hey I got some time to play. Here we go. Let's look at Icon. First of all, happy scumday, Icon! Have a read on your ISO to lighten up your day

So, this line is perhaps the most interesting line in the entire post for me. You wish icon a happy scumday. The thing is that it isn't icon's scumday - it's mine. (or was in your timezone when you were writing the post; whatever)

What this shows me is that you aren't paying a lot of attention to details, and that you're conflating memory with fact (I know that you said that this is what you're doing, but this kinda makes it a lot easier for me to believe.). And since this is clearly not game-related, it kinda makes me think you're just misreading things in general, and that the misreps probably aren't planned, since you're misreading things not directly game-related too. So although the misreps are annoying me, I don't think they're inherently scum-motivated, like I did previously.

This is just throwing me for a loop, since you don't really seem to be the type of player that would misread things this badly - like you're going through all these posts in great detail and I just don't get how you keep on seeing things that aren't there. But I'm pretty sure now that you aren't doing it on purpose (ie purposefully misrepping me to score a mislynch), but it does mean that you're not playing the way I'd expect you to, so I'm having trouble reading you confidantly.

I don't want to lynch you today. Right now, I do think you're incredibly conf-biased and that you're finding evidence to support your pre-existing notions.

---------------

He started out hard on Not Mafia which turned out not to matter because NM was town. All of Icon's first posts, up til 132, were drilling Not Mafia for claiming mafia.

I think this is the most important part of his ISO cuz I just don't see this coming from bluescum. Can you please address this point specifically?

---------------

The empty unvote a mere 70 posts later in 531 is therefore counter-intuitive; Icon actually drops his scum read on Beefster while disagreeing with Beefster's push on GiF. The unvote reason was because 'effort' but effort is not alignment indicative. So this unvote does bother me as I would have thought Icon would gravitate to his next intuitive read of scum!Hawk.

So things like this is where I'm getting *new* from, like the fact that he's reading effort as being AI.

--------------

Scrolling through, Icon never responded to this, and instead jumped on to the Beefster wagon in 559 to put him at L-1, because at this point Beefster had basically desintegrated and had lost all credibility.

If people don't respond to me I usually drop it; I don't really see the point of badgering people if they aren't responding to me.

---------------

Note in particular Hawk/Aninenen vanished from Icon's reads, and then Hawk/Aninenen died that night phase to blue mafia.

I don't understand the connection you're drawing here. Why is not having a read on Hawk/Aninenen suspicious in this context?

Who else died to blue mafia? Tatl and Tael, a player who Icon questioned over their interactions with Skitter, who was then flat out ignored by Icon once Tatl and Tael had moved on.

Hey, who is the player that Icon wants to lynch this day phase? Sky_Paladin, the player who has given Skitter the most trouble.

The cynic in me suggests this is probably not a coincidence.

Bolded: it's lylo. Why would scum do this instead of just pushing for the easiest mislynch?

Also I think it's kinda silly to suggest that TT got killed because blue-scum icon didn't like their townread on his partner. Like the 'interactions with skitter' that you're objecting to is that TT was townreading me for that post, but ico wasn't. Why would the follow-up there be to kill tt?

I think Icon's play looks town on day 1 and 3, and scum on day 2. The night kills seem to straight up implicate Icon as blue mafia although I can't place the Sesq one.

You're kinda arguing that the nks implicate ico *in reference to me*, not ico individually. (although I don't really understand the logic on any of them tbh).

I'm not sure why you're objecting to me responding to the bits about me when this post isn't really analyzing ico only, but more analyzing a me/ico scumteam from the ico side. Like a lot of this post *is* about me.

Between Skitter/Icon, I think Icon has the stronger town play though I would like explanations of how he is now town reading Skitter and scum reading me. This doesn't appear to have developed naturally.

Perhaps the townread on me didn't develop naturally cuz it doesn't exist.

pressure against players who looked the wrong way at Skitter.

As far as I can tell, this is talking about TT, but they were townreading me, so this doesn't make sense.

----------------

spring

599 - yeah, I agree. she's not doing much to try to prevent a lynch on someone she seems to be townreading. It's actually kinda white-knight-y/'claiming towncred for correctly reading a flipped townie', if you compare that to 'I'm not very happy about the beefster lynch' from 647 and 'beefster was quite obviously town to me' from 659.

I feel like sesq was super obvious lynchbait and kinda exactly where scum would want to push - kinda like scum pushing on NM, like Hawk did. I'm just wondering if spring would kill a major scumread of hers, leaving her with nowhere to push?

@spring: what *date* did you replace in?

I'm getting kinda paranoid of GIF/spring, with some major distancing/bussing going on.

[skitter30]

@sky

huh, that's weird: https://imgur.com/tSbjnYc

Either way, I'm pretty sure that you're just super conf-biased. I think you're probably town, but I don't really trust your judgement tbh. Don't really know how to argue you out of it either.

I think sky is town.

Spring is probably scum.

I don't think icon/mumble-slot are scum together - I don't think icon jokes like that with NM's bluemafia claim. I don't think blue-scum mumble *pushes his partner* for joking about NM's bluemafia claim.

Spoiler:

You expect me to actually utilise my brain? Pls

Fair point.

Okay guys you got me, I can't handle the pressure anymore, I'm Ice Mafia, you can leash me if you spare my life

VOTE: Not Mafia

Out your scumpartner so we can leash the both of you. Also, your name suggests otherwise and I don't like liars.
I guarantee cookies for complying.

Fair point.

No, it's not.

Ofcourse. If his claim is real let's have him prove it.
I lied about the cookies though, but don't tell him that.

Ice Mafia Goon Role PM wrote:
Welcome, [player name]. You are a Foreign Spy, along with your partner, [player name].

Abilities:
•Factional Communication:

During the night phase you may talk with your partner here

[Private Topic link].
•Factional Kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partner may perform the factional kill.

Win Condition:
You win when the other mafia team is eliminated and you control 50% of the town or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Quoted from OP. Bolded part. You do not fool me. Give us your scumpartner if you want to live.

VOTE: Iconeum

Like...43 could have been funny and RVSy. But your 51, 54, and 58 are just...unnecessary and fake. Especially 58.

Talk to you Monday, I guess. Wouldn't be surprised to see you pop in soon.

I don't really think this is a blue-scum partner interaction over someone else claiming bluescum. Like since you guys disagree on bluescum ico can someone tell me why?

If ico isn't blue-scum, and I don't really think mumble doesn't make sense a a partner there anyways, and sky I think is probably town (although I disagree with like everything you're saying), I'm kinda left with spring and GIF. But GIF's voting patterns yesterday and today don't really match.

Idk, I'm kinda confused and frustrated by this game.

[skitter30]

I'm pretty sure spring is scum, and it's been like a week and she's said nothing of substance. I tried to metadive but they haven't played in like three years so I didn't get much out of that.

VOTE: Spring

I don't know who her partner is.

Hoping this doesn't lose the game.

[skitter30]

town!spring + scum!sky should be hammer.

scum!spring + scum!sky isn't necessarily an autohammer

town!spring + town!sky means the team is gif/ico and ico hasn't been around yet.

scum!spring + town!sky isn't an autohammer

Like the only way sky isn't clear from my POV is if it's one of the following:

1. scumteam of spring/sky; unlikely; I think he'd hammer for the cred tbh.

2. scumteam of gif/ico and ico hasn't been online yet; last visit was before my vote.

So yeah barring the two above scenarios, sky's town from my POV.

p-edit: yeah that's fine with me. lack of hammer to me means you're town or scum with spring or it's gif/ico and ico hasn't been online yet.

[skitter30]

I really hope that it isn't ico/gif cuz that would mean I would have spent an age writing walls when the game was already over, but here goes.

@sky:

Spoiler:

909, spoiler, 2: I still think sesq was killed cuz it her death wouldn't provide any clarity to the gamestate; it left everything just as confusing as before the kil because the death doesn't point to anyone. Your explanation for why scum!me would be pushing GIF today if you died is a thought process that would literally never occur to me; like I don't think I would ever push GIF specifically for thinking the blue team was alisae/you after alisae flipped red and you flipped town. Like that thought process for deciding who to nk (ie kill you in order to frame GIF that way) is kinda alien to me tbh.

851 - that wasn't me saying you were my preferred lynch; that was me asking ico why you were his preferred lynch cuz that wasn't what I was feeling at the time.

909, spoiler, c - honestly a lot of the change in my posting style is that now I'm on spring break this week and I've caught up on a lot of my sleep debt. A lot of the game on days2 and 3 was during the end of a very hectic school term and I was running on very little sleep for like a month and towards the end the lack of sleep caught up to me and I came down with the flu and I just couldn't think straight at that point. Like my critical thinking skills for anything beyond 'Let Ax=b be an underdetermined system and we wish to minimize ....' were completely shot and although I was reading everything I just couldn't figure out the implications of anything. That's why my posting dropped and like I was kinda just running on gut.

It's not that I wasn't interested in conversation so much as I wasn't really capable of carrying it out and thinking through everything through a lot of day2 and day3. 856 was still written during finals week and I wasn't really prioritizing this at that time but I kinda felt like you were pushing me specifically for not contributing when no one really was.

909, spoiler, E - I think she may have held off on hammer cuz no one realized alisae was at l-1 tbh. I didn't realize they were at l-1 till you pointed it out.

looking-for-any-lynch - yeah that was on the off-chance I had died, I wanted to make sure everyone knew what my reads were. I didn't elaborate cuz it was the last week of the term and I hadn't slept in like a two days and I didn't have either time or mental wherewithal to try. It was always spring before you.

-------------

910 - about 181. No, it was about Beef's vote on Hawk. That whole post was about Beef and was never about Hawk. The readslist was Beef's readslist.

the beef/gif vote thing - I don't think that beef gets to hold gif accountable when *beef let GIF talk him into it*. If he had a problem with GIF's push he shouldn't have sheeped him. The difference is that Beef let GIF talk him into it and was fine with it the day before and once RF flipped town was looking for someone else to blame for the wagon. Beef was on the wagon, and didn't have a problem being on the wagon. If he thought it was a bad wagon he shouldn't have been on it. Blaming GIF the next day screams of trying to pass off responsibility for his vote. (yes, I know beef flipped town, but that was an awful reaction to that flip) Like if you don't get what I'm trying to say I don't know how else to explain it.

-----------

I don't know how to explain newb Ico. Like I just read his ISO and that's what I see. Also I'm not townreading him. I'm 'not-blue-scum-reading' him, which makes him town by default, but that isn't the same thing as townreading him.

-----------

For Hawk, dropping the scumread - he had written some posts that looked kinda townie to me, but I didn't have time to respond fully and digest them at that moment so I just unvoted. And then I was traveling and I responded to his posts when I had a chance but the day ended on a RF lynch before I had a chance to check back in again to see what he said after that.

Also if the game doesn't end I'm going to be v/la from Friday to Monday and I won't have internet access for most of that time so if I'm not like dead I won't post till Sunday night or Monday like at all.

[skitter30]

First time being in 3-way lylo, so this will be interesting.

I'm very probably going to be voting GIF because I think sky is probably town, and I haven't really been townreading GIF at any point this game.

Sky, can you give me a tldr why you scumread me? And a tldr why you townread GIF?

I think scum!sky probably wins the game so long as ico wasn't here cuz me/gif are townreading him, but ico thought sky was scum. But I'm kinda townreading sky though; I don't really think he's scum.

Gif said he was townreading sky and thought it was spring + one of {me/ico}.

I kinda think GIF has sky pocketed and wanted sky in lylo cuz it doesn't really look like sky has ever really been open to considering the possibilty of scum!GIF; he's been townreading him fairly consistently.

[skitter30]

@Skitter my OG reason for scum reading you was because you pressured Beefster for voting GiF when you had done essentially the same thing. After that, the next problematic

thing was what felt like a refusal to see Icon as scummy because he was new

; I would have infinitely preferred you pointing out some reason for him to be town e.g. in post x Icon did y and that is town because z. It's much harder for me to sympathise with a feeling when I don't have that same feeling.

I don't really know why you don't get my beef vote, because there's a nuance there (ie beef followed GIF's wagon and later blamed him for that wagon and it seemed to me that he was trying to evade responsibility for his vote) that you seem to be missing that I can't seem to make you understand.

And for like the twelve-billionth time, I wasn't townreading ico past like mid day 2. I was not-blue-scumreading him, and I explained which specific posts prompted that read. Like the bolded is not at all an accurate representation of my ico read. It's not that I was townreading him because he was new, but that I was not blue-scum-reading him. In addition to that, he felt like a super new player to me. I asked both of you to like comment on that read and no one responded. Like I feel like you're telling me you're scumreading me cuz you didn't understand my ico read cuz I didn't give a concrete reason for reading him that way when I explained it numerous times and you declined to engage me when I tried to get you to tell me what you thought about it.

Also you've been townreading GIF for a while now - why were you townreading him before he voted for spring?

I kinda think GIF has sky pocketed and wanted sky in lylo cuz it doesn't really look like sky has ever really been open to considering the possibilty of scum!GIF; he's been townreading him fairly consistently.

I actually prefer ambiguity in LyLo over pocketing as scum.

Especially when I know town-Sky would roll his head around like crazy until the last moment for every possibilities.

What do you mean by this?

Which game are you referencing in 927?

930 - you read it backwards. Sky's been townreading you fairly consistently, not the other way around.

I think I need to do my due diligence and ISO both of you and do the meta-dive thing before I vote.

[skitter30]

(expired on 2018-04-03 18:00:52)

Can you not do this please? I need to put some time into figuring this out and I'm not going to be able to finish doing that in the next couple of hours.

[skitter30]

Yeah I'm still working on this; sorry I'm prioritizing another game for *reasons* and I really should declare semi v/la till like Monday tbh. (It's passover till then. Also I'm at a hotel till Sunday and the hotel wifi doesn't like this site and keeps on crashing on my laptop and won't let me reach ms on my phone at all. )

I'm not really ready for the day to end but I did make a start on the ISO thing and I actually think I'm tending to sky cuz his associatives with spring are kinda :/

Spoiler:

springlullaby (2) - Sesq,

GuyInFreezer

Can somebody please clarify why Spring is scum (and if possible, fire mafia?). They are at L-1.

While I'm waiting, I'll back the third horse.

VOTE: Iconeum

The Mikan/Hawk vote is interesting,

but not as interesting as Mikan pushing for Spring

. I would have expected her to go for GiF/Icon, especially after her wall on Icon. I am interested in seeing who cares about Icon, though.

Kinda weird that he keeps on bringing up votes/scumreads on spring when he doesn't townread her. Bolding my own.

springlullaby (3) - Sesq, GuyInFreezer, Alisae L-1

Alisae (1) - Iconeum
Iconeum (1) - Sky_Paladin
Sesq (1) - springlullaby

Not Voting: skitter30

Skiiiiiiitter who are you going to vote for.

I feel like you want to vote GiF because you've wanted to since forever, but you're not voting because...?

Bolding is sky's. Again, why emphasizing the spring wagon?

While I could see Skitter/Icon as Ice mafia team, neither of them are viable lynches at this point. I was hoping GiF would give me some insight into why Spring could be fire Mafia but he declined so maybe one of the others on that wagon (hint Alisae) could explain their vote for me. At this stage I'm not interested in hammering there.

Like he feels oddly concerned about this wagon on someone he's not townreading given the like three posts I've already quoted where he keeps on asking about the votes on spring.

813 - spends a lot of time analyzing the gamestate given *redscum* spring but neglects to consider bluescum spring. Also in light of the fact that scum don't have daytalk and the fact that spring literally hammered four posts later kinda feels like sky might be telling spring to just hammer alisae and end the phase already. Like in between sky saying the following and spring hammering:

Any of the players voting Alisae (myself included) could trivially hammer Spring and nobody would care. Spring at least should have counter-hammered to save herself IMO.

There's like three posts, two of which are GIF saying bluescum wouldn't hammer since it would be a scumclaim, and the third is a vc.

The hammer immediately after that is kinda weird, and doesn't make sense to follow bluescum-GIF saying a hammer is a blue-scumclaim, but does make sense to follow bluescum-sky kinda indicating he wants his partner to hammer.

Like throughout day3 he spends a lot of time developing other reads but seems kinda overly focused on the spring votes given that he doesn't really have a read on her.

I think I was townreading effort and AtE but like that isn't a good reason to townread someone in LYLO.

Also I'm rereading his posts and like I realized I never responded to the posts at the end of day2 and rereading them he misrepped me a bunch of times, or at best was misunderstanding them repeatedly despite multiple attempts by me to clarify. earlier Even now he still doesn't get my beef vote and I don't get what there isn't to get and he also misrepped my position on ico, again.

I don't really like *his* beef vote in 556 - it kinda feels like he hopped on the wagon to vote beef despite being too scummy to be scum. Like he's voting Beef for not making sense and not so much for being *scummy*. Like doing derp-things isn't necessarily a scumtell and I think sky knows that. Like is sheeping someone although you don't know their reasonining pro-town? Probably not. Is it scum-indicative? Probably not also.

855 - I dont' think that people voting together at lynch is a good reason to team-read people tbh. Also I kinda think he's overly focused on the implications of the nk and his analysis of the nk is still kinda bizarre to me. Like he seems to think I killed sesq to frame him or something and that's not something I'd do (at least, not using the thought process he's pushing), and I really don't think that the kill points anywhere. I do kinda feel like he's trying to tie me to it though and use the sesq night-kill to show that people are trying to frame him to try to clear himself a bit. Like he kinda has a pre-concieved notion as to what the nk means.

And a lot of his posts on day4 are pushing an ico/me narrative that doesn't make sense because a significant portion of that is based on me saying that I preferred to lynch him when that didn't happen. (Although tbf he retracted that once I put up a big enough stink about it cuz like that's a pretty big misrep tbh cuz it didn't happen). Specifically referring to 857. Also he repeatedly pushed me townreading ico as a reason to teamread us when again, that wasn't an accurate description of my read since like mid-day2. And I repeatedly clarified it and he kept pushing it (and still is even today). Like it kinda feels like he has a narrative that he wants to push (ie my townread on ico doesn't make sense) and he's ignoring me when I try to point out he's misunderstanding things (ie I'm haven't townread ico since mid-day2; my read on him is that I don't blue-scum-read him and he like never engaged with that read)

I was specifically townreading him for 885 - 887, but like as I go through his ISO he's misreading what I'm saying *a lot* and we didn't have this much trouble communicating last time we played together? Like I don't understand why he's repeatedly misreading *many* of my posts and using these misreads to scumread me or teamread me with ico and it takes like three rounds of back-and-forth for him to understand me, if ever.

Sky, do you have a recent scumgame you can link me?

Going to do the GIF ISO tomorrow.

[skitter30]

OK doing the GIF ISO now.

-> Still don't like the RF wagon

-> It's kinda idiotic for scum to soft doc to divert the nk off the real doc. Like the risk (getting nk'd) isn't really worth the reward imo (towncred from trying to divert the nk off the fairly obvious doc)

-> I think that scum!gif would probably hop on the beef wagon at some point instead of townreading him after their spat. LIke it would be easy to vote him for beef's bad lolcase on GIF, but he didn't.

-> I still think it's weird that he forgot we wanted to kill redmafia day3, but like, bluemafia is probably fairly likely to be cognizant of the fact that town wants to kill red. (ie I thought at the time it might be because he was red, but that isn't relevant anymore and forgetting that we wanted to finish off red after one already died isn't exactly a bluescum tell; if anything it might be a not-blue-scum tell).

->694 - yeah this is basically what's getting me cuz it doesn't make sense to try to eat the nk as scum, as epitomized with the softing doc thing. (@gif, did you sign up for this game *because* it's multiball?)

->786 - bluescum staying off the alisae wagon day3 because 'he doesn't think alisae is redscum' is just really weird. Like day3 bluescum!gif is voting his bluescum partner while staying off redscum alisae's *while scumreading them* because he doesn't think that alisae is *redscum*.

Overall I don't particularly townread GIF so much as think his behavior doesn't really match what I'd expect (blue)scum to be doing at various points in this game. And he particularly doesn't make much sense as a Spring partner, whereas sky seemed overly concerned by the Spring wagon. So I think I'm voting sky.

I said this in my last post, but just to say it again, the following sequence of posts kinda highlights why I think sky is more likely a spring partner than GIF:

Spoiler:

Any of the players voting Alisae (myself included) could trivially hammer Spring and nobody would care. Spring at least should have counter-hammered to save herself IMO.

@GiF - if Spring is red, why haven't blue hammered?

Blue absolutely will not hammer this dayphase.

By hammer, I mean like scumhammer.

VOTE COUNT

springlullaby (L-1)

(3) - Sesq, GuyInFreezer, Alisae

Alisae (L-1)

(3) - Iconeum, skitter30, Sky_Paladin

Sesq

(1) - springlullaby

Not Voting:

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Tick tock...

3 days, 12 hours, 37 minutes

Countdown has been paused while I replace Sesq.

I didn't realise all votes were accounted for.

VOTE: Alisae

Better than me because I'm 100% town.

(btw I'm fully cognizant that I get mislynched most of the time here. I want to solve the game before that happens so that I can say 'I told you so' after)

p-edit: I did not read that post

[skitter30]

lmao 2 V/LAs in LyLo

I'm going to be legit v/la tomorrow and saturday and not just semi-v/la like I was for most of the week cuz it's the last two days of passover and I"m going to be offline.

(I wasn't expecting this game to last this long or that I'd still be alive at this point)

Kinda wondering if I should just vote now cuz I'll actually be around for most of the day IRL instead of letting you guys argue it out while I'm not here? idk.

[skitter30]

eh, fuck it.

VOTE: sky

I get mislynched here pretty much always; I'm aware of that.

Like if town loses cuz I misvoted in LYLO or if they lose cuz I get mislynched in LYLO it's the same outcome.

I think I'd rather lose to scum!GIF than scum!sky.

p-edit: yeah I'm just going to do this cuz we're all here instead of dragging it out.

[skitter30]

I mean, I just did.

[skitter30]

Cool, I get to say I told you so after you mislynch me.

[skitter30]

I gotta go IRL for a bit but I'll be back in an hour or so.

I'll be here till sometime this afternoon but then I'm offline till Saturday night and I'll be off of semi-v/la when I get home some point on Sunday, so just telling you what my activity is going to look like.

p-edit: yeah, sorry. Like I said, wasn't expecting this game to last this long or that I'd still be alive during passover when I'm kinda v/la.

[skitter30]

Town!me:

* I've been re-evaluating things. Case-in-point: today. I came in thinking I'd be voting GIF, but I took the time to reconsider and do the ISO thing and I saw that sky made a lot more sense. Like when I wasn't sure I'd try to understand the other person's POV. (ie with sky day 2). My posts weren't designed to push a narrative. You got exactly what I was thinking all game, even if it didn't necessarily make sense (I do admit that the week before finals (ie end of day 3 / early day 4) I wasn't awake enough to actually like think properly or follow things to their logical conclusions or like *explain* what I was thinking in a way that actually made sense though). If I thought I was misreading or misunderstanding something I'd try to understand where I was going wrong.

* I've had fairly decent reads this game and have been off of all the town lynches and on all the scum lynches. When I had a read I was actually confident on I didn't budge - like I knew my read on TD wasn't the sort I'm wrong on and was consistent about it. I dropped it when I couldn't get people to follow me but I always ended up circling back there. Same with not-blue-scum-Ico.

* Scum!me did a hilariously awful job at setting myself up for LYLO. ex: Ico wanted to vote sky and I kill him last night because .... ? Best you can argue is WIFOM but like seriously why do I take the two people who are scumreading me to LYLO the most instead of the guy who wants to vote sky? Like that would make my life a billion times easier, especially since I made it abundantly clear I was never voting for ico yesterday/today.

I do admit to not prioritizing this game cuz it's been a bit of a slog with a bunch of lolplayers and long spells of inactivity, and like when I have limited time to play I'd rather play a game that I'm having more fun in. Like out-arguing thor is a lot more interesting and fun than trying to decide if beef is dumb or scum if that makes sense.

[skitter30]

Made mistakes - helped mislynch Beefster, cased Icon.

Skitter was never on a town-controlled lynch except when voting her buddy.

This is hilarious btw cuz I've been on all the scum lynches and none of the town lynches.

Unless he means 'town-controlled lynch' to mean something else, idk.

[skitter30]

Scum!sky:

* His posts are designed to push a narrative and he admitted as much. Namely, his analysis for the nks and repeatedly misreading what I'm writing when I made myself as clear as I know how. (and like in open 711, which ended like a week before this game began, we played together and didn't have this problem; we even talked about how much we liked each other's posting to the point that we were each worried about the other being in a 'blindspot', like townreading someone because you like how they post and you think they make good sense but you aren't sure if they're actually being town-motivated).

Or using my read on ico as a reason to teamread with him when his understanding of my read on ico was wrong is kinda silly given that I corrected him on it like three times. I kinda feel like he wants to scumread me. Like he's been building towards scum!me since like mid-day2 and hasn't actually like re-evaluated at any point. (I can predict what he's going to say to that last sentence).

* He basically told spring to hammer alisae to save himself; was oddly concerned with votes on spring given that he didn't townread her; was holding off on hammering when he didn't townread her because .... ? Didn't actually vote spring.

* Ico scumread sky and spring and after the bluescum spring flip ico is dead. Like this LYLO fits scum!sky a lot more than scum!me.

[skitter30]

Idk, I think I've said everything I want to say and I'm content just letting you decide at this point.

If you want me to answer something specific lmk.

[skitter30]

So I'm around for the next hour and a half or so and I'll keep an eye on this, and then I'm gone till Saturday night at the earliest, possibly Sunday.

[skitter30]

Cool, I get to say I told you so after you mislynch me.

First time getting mislynched on MS

[skitter30]

GG everyone I am still on holiday

Skitter everything out of my mouth was a goddamn dirty lie and I’m so sorry X____X

I gotta admit that the misreps were kinda pissing me off and making it hard for me to interact with you cuz you were basing your arguments on things that didn't happen and like I couldn't really do much about it when you kept on ignoring me pointing that out.

What convinced me it was you and not GIF when I actually went back and looked was the following:

1. Repeated misreps when we didn't have this problem in stack the deck

2. You felt like you were trying to frame me for the sesq nk or something, using a thought process I would never have used. It reminded me of the last time someone tried to pull that- they were scum hoping to frame me for the nk to get that required mislynch to win. And then I read your Beef vote again and it was wrong in the exact way another vote by a different scumbag in a different game felt wrong. A large part of how I play is comparing a given scenario to something I'd seen before, and you pulling the exact same tricks as other scum twice set off major alarm bells. But I didn't think GIF would buy this as a reason for scum!you so I didn't bring it up.

3. From my POV, the sequence of posts leading up to springs hammer on Alisae was practically a smoking gun for scum!you, but again, it only was from my POV.

You played a great game though, and I applaud the effort you put in for this win.

[skitter30]

You saying that almost saved yourself from being hammered tbh

I really didn't want to get mislynched cuz it ruined my streak but in this I realized I care more about being right than winning, and like, from my POV the game was solved already.

[skitter30]

Btw, sky, if you're ever interested in hydra-ing, lmk, I think it could be fun

[skitter30]

Btw, sky, if you're ever interested in hydra-ing, lmk, I think it could be fun

THE WALLLLLLLLLLLLLS

THE WALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLS

Yeah, idk how to be shorter lol. I try, but I always feel like I have a lot of things to say.

[skitter30]

Yeah, I try to be as concise as possible but often I'm like building up an argument and I need to bring in a bunch of things that aren't immediately relevant to show my point.

When I can tldr I do though.

And believe it or not, I actually don't put everything I'm thinking in thread

[skitter30]

I was paranoid Skitter was going to see I was scum right away because we have a very similiar playstyle and I thought she would know something was up right away;

So I eventually picked up on this, that we weren't like meshing at all like we did in math's game, but it took like a month; like I think I noted it subconsciously but I didn't realize it consciously till like end-of-day3 or thereabouts. I do think I probably should have picked up on that earlier though. (Also I realized in this LYLO that reading my own ISO is probably a good idea cuz it documents what I was thinking at various points of the game, and like by endgame I didn't really remember the reasons why I was scumreading you like day2 till I went back and re-ISO'd you. Also your scumgame here + my experience in Jungle Republic, which ran concurrently to this, has helped me figure out a new general scumtell for our kind of playstyle.)

And I didn't end up following up on your lie ~day2 cuz I was kinda v/la traveling to my best friend's wedding and catching up on the schoolwork I missed, and by the time I had caught up on my sleep debt/schoolwork, day2 had ended, and day3 had quickly become about alisae.

So I approached trying to get this out of Skitter - while she was not explicitly scum reading Icon, she was also not explicitly town reading him either.

It wasn't a nullread. It was a 'I don't townread him but I literally can't make RVS make sense if he's bluescum, so since red is dead he has to be town' read. Like I maybe would have bought redscum!ico prior to flipping alisae, but I was literally never voting him after red was dead. Like I was about as confident on not-blue-ico as I was on scum!TD, and I don't think anyone in this game could have talked me out of either read.

Like in a LYLO of me/ico/{one of gif/sky} I would have voted whichever of gif/sky was alive without a second thought.

Overall this was a difficult game for me mainly because of Skitter;

she didn't let me get away with anything and the only reason she didn't win was because people wouldn't read her posts.

I try

And that's also why I was feeling apathetic. Like imo I had obvtowned kinda fairly early and thought I'd be dead ages ago (for a while in the second LYLO I was thinking of pulling the 'I'm hilariously out of my scumrange card', but I was pretty sure that GIF would have viewed that as a empty grab for towncred, and that you absolutely would have portrayed it as such), especially given two nk's a night, but like I was still there (through the replacements and rp and inactivity and lol-nks and lolwagons) and people were scumreading me for inane reasons and I couldn't get people to listen to me, all of which combined made it hard for me to care, especially while running on massive sleep debt through most of that.

Skitter, I would love to hydra sometime. Once I've finished moving house and my situation is all good I'll let you know I'm ready.

Awesomeness, PM me when you're ready

I hope your move goes well!