Mini 1993 - Earthbound Mafia: Giygas' Curse - GAME OVER

[Beefster]

Inferno390

: Well crap. I wasn't even paying attention to what account I was on. I deserve major mod reprimanding for that.

On a more positive note, how are Brafin and I playing scummily?

VOTE: InfernoBrafin
Semi-serious vote.

IB looks awfully self-conscious.

[Beefster]

Yeah. Mathdino's pinging me too. Let's see how this progresses.

[Beefster]

Inferno390

: Well crap. I wasn't even paying attention to what account I was on. I deserve major mod reprimanding for that.

On a more positive note, how are Brafin and I playing scummily?

VOTE: InfernoBrafin
Semi-serious vote.

IB looks awfully self-conscious.

Inferno:

What's pinging you as self-conscious? That post in particular? Or just the way Brafin and I are interacting with each other in general?

Other posts pinged me too, but it was the fact that you were already asking others why they thought you were playing scummily... on page 2.

It's hard to say if that really means much this early on, but it's a start.

[Beefster]

Inferno:

A) It's no benefit to you, but it is benefit to town. Town needs to explain reads so that they can better sort and find scum, even if the read is poor. The fact that you're going to withhold information so as "not to get a mislynch" on someone you find is playing scummy seems incredibly off.

We're not going to change our play to look townie. That's scummy behavior in of itself. What I can do if you explain your read is have a conversation about it and gather information from that read to form my own reads.

And you're telling me that if Paradox had a very towny town game, you'd call it scummy anyways becasue he's a scummy player? Because that's what it seems ike you're saying.

Hmm... Once again, this looks self-conscious.

[Beefster]

Inferno:

I would define them as "not very good at playing mafia."

@Beefster: Which part of this is self-conscious?

The second line mostly.

[Beefster]

Beef!!

How are you reading Math so far?

Leaning scum. His posts feel kinda IIOA-ish.

[Beefster]

Inferno:

I would define them as "not very good at playing mafia."

@Beefster: Which part of this is self-conscious?

The second line mostly.

And the question itself.

[Beefster]

Beefster, because you read both IB and Math as scummy right now, you believe it's a SvS fight? Thoughts?

It's probably not SvS, so I'm likely wrong on at least one of them. I need to wait and see how things develop.

[Beefster]

If anything IB is the more likely scum.

[Beefster]

If anything IB is the more likely scum.

What makes him more likely scum then math, from your perspective?

Just how they've been acting in general. IB looks very self-conscious to me.

Math looks confident and it's always kinda hard to read him at first.

[Beefster]

I otherwise seem to like your posts, but this ends up feeling like convenient hedging for you:
1. "Leaning scum [on Mathdino]. His posts feel kinda IIOA-ish"
2. "[Math vs. Inferno is] probably not SvS, so I'm likely wrong on at least one of them. I need to wait and see how things develop.
3. "If anything IB is the more likely scum."

So are you more or less saying here you think Mathdino is likely town?

If you want to take it that way, sure.

It's too early to tell.

[Beefster]

Inferno:

I would define them as "not very good at playing mafia."

@Beefster: Which part of this is self-conscious?

After some more in-depth thought, while it's probably normal for hydras to be self-conscious about playstyle, it's another thing entirely to be self-conscious about others' reads on you.

I might be falling prey to confirmation bias here...

I think Mathdino is town because my gut is telling me that the worst is town and that Math and tw are the same alignment.

Momrangal confuses me.

[Beefster]

Inferno:

Interesting read there Beefster. What about both Worst and MD comes off as town?

I do agree with you on Momrangal.

the worst is being totally goofy, but in a genuine way. I would expect him to be somewhat more serious or more self conscious as scum. He doesn't seem to give two shits about what other players think of him.

I'm not sure I can put my finger on exactly what makes me think tw and Math are the same alignment. It probably is meaningless since they're friends outside the game I think.

Maybe it's just that I'm starting to see Math!Town in other ways and that's just how my gut interpreted it.

[Beefster]

Spoiler: Beefster's 180

Yeah. Mathdino's pinging me too. Let's see how this progresses.

Beef!!

How are you reading Math so far?

Leaning scum. His posts feel kinda IIOA-ish.

I otherwise seem to like your posts, but this ends up feeling like convenient hedging for you:
1. "Leaning scum [on Mathdino]. His posts feel kinda IIOA-ish"
2. "[Math vs. Inferno is] probably not SvS, so I'm likely wrong on at least one of them. I need to wait and see how things develop.
3. "If anything IB is the more likely scum."

So are you more or less saying here you think Mathdino is likely town?

If you want to take it that way, sure.

It's too early to tell.

Inferno:

I would define them as "not very good at playing mafia."

@Beefster: Which part of this is self-conscious?

After some more in-depth thought, while it's probably normal for hydras to be self-conscious about playstyle, it's another thing entirely to be self-conscious about others' reads on you.

I might be falling prey to confirmation bias here...

I think Mathdino is town because my gut is telling me that the worst is town and that Math and tw are the same alignment.

Momrangal confuses me.

Alright Beefster, what happened that you did a 180 on your MD read?

I changed my mind.

[Beefster]

VOTE: Iconeum

Mountain out of a molehill. Low hanging fruit. Easy scum move.

[Beefster]

Mathdino is town. I will literally quit mafiascum if math is scum here.
Effortpost tommorrow, too tired today.

I MISSED THIS
It feels like the probability of town saying this so confidently is pretty low. Other than that though I like Paradox so treat this as a FOS

This is a good point, though scum usually tries to avoid confident town reads like this for that very reason.

Town!RC does these kinds of reads all the time for instance- and I have seen at least one occasion where he was wrong on a town read.

[Beefster]

Tbh, I'm nervous to go after Marangal so soon because if we open that floodgate now it's never gonna close. Our playstyles don't mesh so well. I should be able to sort her by associations later on though.

Is that why you are more or less limiting your interaction with me?

What are you making of the IB wagon building within the day?

What are you making of the fact that I feel pretty lock-steppy with you?

Buju also said there are to many lurkers.

How can there have been when this game is only two days old if even?

Someone's asking a lot of questions. This looks like active lurking to me.

[Beefster]

The key here is I've played with Paradox twice and snowed him as scum when he thought I was for sure town

Yet he's not suspicious of me at all this game

Hmm. That's something to consider.

[Beefster]

If forcing direct interactions with me and attempting to make people think is active lurking then yes!
I absolutely am doing so.


But hey!

That's the furthest from active lurking and he's low key trying to discredit me instead of trying directly engaging me.

There is no reason for scum to be doing that

Not to mention that Omgus that he's trying to keep on the down low

To be clear, it has more to do with

what

questions you're asking and not so much

that

you're asking questions. Asking questions can be a good thing, but I don't really see how your questions are going to move the game forward.

Another thing!

Buju is entirely just being reactive and not proactive.

Take with that what you will

I thought for a moment that it was odd that you didn't vote BuJ for this, but then I realized you've had a vote on him for a while.

Even still, I'm not sure I like the presentation of this, but I can probably chock it up to playstyle. You get the botd for now.

[Beefster]

Apparently, "for now" only meant about 5 minutes.

Your play seems reminiscient of Scum!CultOfAthena, but with less words. Not that it matters a whole lot. This is more of a casual observation.

141 looks like she's going after low-hanging fruit. It looks very opportunistic.

239 looks like deflecting.

241 looks like throwing shade without actually trying to make a good case.

VOTE: Momrangal

[Beefster]

Also: Happy Scumday, Mathdino!

[Beefster]

How is Buju any more or less low hanging fruit than IB?

Point taken.

Also my questions to dino was meant to specifically meant to help me get a handle on him as well as to pull him out of a run me and get him to think about the game logically like I know how he can do.

If he's town, it'll help him make better more informed reads and if he's scum he's forced to not ignore me because if he's scum he knows that I not gonna leave him alone until I am satisfied.

What's weird to me about your questions to MathDino is that it focused on what other players thought of the two of you rather than questionable actions.

[Beefster]

And instead of playing white knight, why don't you let the issue between me and Buju stay between me and Buju.

Answering his questions for him is getting him off the hook and is preventing me from forming a better read on that slot

Uhhmmm... How am I being a white night?

I'm pointing out that your case on BuJ is sketchy and that's why I find you suspicious. I'm not answering his questions for him.

[Beefster]

Brafin:

I'd like to put out and explain my scumreads, since it feels to me that the game has slowed down. Sometimes these help generate new conversation.

Mathdino:
For the most part, this slot feels sort of town to me. But the whole semantics thing has me kind of uncomfortable, and here's why. Math claims that his definition of scummy is not the same as scum-indicative, but whenever Inferno or I pointed out that something was scummy, even before either one of us scumread him, he treated it like it was. How can he both say that the word scummy isn't the same as scum-indicative when he uses it on others, but it is whenever anyone else uses it on him? It's super inconsistent, and I can't see any townie double-thinking that hard ever. If this weren't the case, I probably would town read him.

Beef:
There's a few things that pings me on Beef.
1) He makes a semi-serious vote, and then takes and obvious RVS vote seriously. That doesn't make any sense to me; he's foregone RVS and then interacts with RVS?
2) His next few posts are weird. He reads us as kind of scummy, MD as kind of scummy, but then says that it's probably not SvS. Then he says that it's probably us because "Math is hard to read at first." Didn't he just read Math?
3) Then he admits that he might be misreading us and does a complete 180 on another player without giving reason, and then OMGUS votes the first person that points it out.
4) He's done little actual scumhunting, just made general statements and kind of skirted issues as they've arisen.
By themselves, they're not much, but together it feels to me like he's scum. But I wouldn't put Math and Beef together as a scumteam. Beef has been super agressive to Math, while Math has just ignored it for the most part. I don't see scum doing that.

More on my third in a bit.

This post confuses me. So I'm scum because I changed my mind a bunch? I'm just trying to make sense of the game. And you know what? Math is looking sorta kinda scummy again. I don't know how to read him. But at this point any scum read on him would be a meta read that I can't explain to save my life. So I'll just give him the botd and put him in the "deal with later" bin and focus on other players I find questionable and/or confusing.

You also wouldn't put me and Math in a scumteam together, yet you think we're both scum?

[Beefster]

Ness took mortal damage.
Ness ate some

Steak

and recovered 237 HP.

[Beefster]

Is that a policy lynch?

[Beefster]

Regarding Not_Mafia: I say wait until he makes a few posts. I think I'm starting to get a feel for his low-content style. Though tbf, I haven't seen him flip. He just doesn't give you much to work with.

[Beefster]

I assume you're referring to me, BuJ.

Frantic? I'm always frantic, especially as town. It's when I'm not frantic that you have to watch out for me. Or stated differently, when it looks like I have a plan, I'm probably scum. But eh. Self meta defense. Do what you will with it. I only have 2 recent completed scum games for you to go on anyway.

Nervous? Nah.

[Beefster]

Points to anyone who just saw what I saw!

It's a stretch. BuJ's defense looks genuine IMO.

[Beefster]

For the sake of my own amusement, I'm going to call the scumteam as Momrangal/IB/(Paradox or Iconeum)

I'm probably wrong on at least one.

[Beefster]

Spoiler: Beefster's 180

Yeah. Mathdino's pinging me too. Let's see how this progresses.

Beef!!

How are you reading Math so far?

Leaning scum. His posts feel kinda IIOA-ish.

I otherwise seem to like your posts, but this ends up feeling like convenient hedging for you:
1. "Leaning scum [on Mathdino]. His posts feel kinda IIOA-ish"
2. "[Math vs. Inferno is] probably not SvS, so I'm likely wrong on at least one of them. I need to wait and see how things develop.
3. "If anything IB is the more likely scum."

So are you more or less saying here you think Mathdino is likely town?

If you want to take it that way, sure.

It's too early to tell.

Inferno:

I would define them as "not very good at playing mafia."

@Beefster: Which part of this is self-conscious?

After some more in-depth thought, while it's probably normal for hydras to be self-conscious about playstyle, it's another thing entirely to be self-conscious about others' reads on you.

I might be falling prey to confirmation bias here...

I think Mathdino is town because my gut is telling me that the worst is town and that Math and tw are the same alignment.

Momrangal confuses me.

Alright Beefster, what happened that you did a 180 on your MD read?

I changed my mind.

Inferno:

You "changed your mind?"
No, you need to elaborate on this. WHY did you change your mind?

Inferno:

You still haven't responded to this either, Beef.

I have nothing to elaborate on. I felt one way about him at one point. He posted some stuff that made me feel differently, so I changed my mind. It's intuitive gut-read-type stuff. Mathdino's just hard to read I guess.

[Beefster]

C&S: I think that's a point worth considering and probably explains why I've been waffling on Mathdino. And my initial gut read.

I was pinged by his defense against A50. So guess what? I changed my mind again.

I'm going to check his ISO and get back to you.

[Beefster]

After an ISO, I agree with C&S's MD read.

VOTE: Mathdino

[Beefster]

I'm just gonna wait until everyone catches up and is in real time before tearing this apart.

I think mastina thinks I'm someone else and is mixing up my playstyle with someone else.

I'll gladly chase after mastina/assembler if you flip town. I just think she/they have a good point.

[Beefster]

I'm just gonna wait until everyone catches up and is in real time before tearing this apart.

I think mastina thinks I'm someone else and is mixing up my playstyle with someone else.

FTR, I'd say the case is meta-agnostic. You

have

been doing an awful lot of hair splitting and actively trying to look town.

[Beefster]

While I have only been in two games with you (where you were town in both), compared to that, your play this game just looked off. Just a little bit. There was something uncanny about your posts. Sure, I don't have the same background on you that mastina does, but that's not actually necessary for her case to be valid.

What actually struck me was not what was in your posts, but what appeared to be behind them. Sure, going after PLs is bad (or can be, in many cases) and you can pin a lot of your actions as scummy, but I'm put off more by the agenda that is in your posts.

[Beefster]

Just like quickly caught up. Still processing everything a little but gut says
VOTE: Carrot and Stick

Replacing in like 9-10 days out from deadline, attempting to sweepingly discredit nearly the entire player list for being "morons" then War and Peace-casing the fuck out of the player who has BY FAR been the most proactive pre-replacements is nuts.

This feels like a ploy to win towncred/town leader position and not an active scumhunt.

Just need to decide for myself whether this play is too poor for scum!C&S honestly


P.S. my duck cuz is reading town to me. Still liking inferno less but this slot is more nullish/nulltown I think.

Chainsaw defense?

[Beefster]

acryon's vote looks opportunistic.

[Beefster]

Why would I suck up to you? The fact remains that I find your posts uncanny and C&S essentially explained why my intuition is pinged by you. I'm not 100% certain that makes you scum, but I'll say it's enough to go on for now.

[Beefster]

pedit: the acryon post got ninja'd by yours. I posted it before I saw your response to my chainsaw defense comment.

I'd settle for an acryon lynch.

[Beefster]

Though that would pretty much be based on the one post, so...

[Beefster]

Anyway... Gotta go to work now.

[Beefster]

See, if math is town, that's going to carry us far. If mastina is town, it's going to carry us even farther. If both are town, that's an automatic win. But if both are scum, we lose.
I want to hear the thoughts on the game from assemble right now, that'll help me sort mastina.

Some of the best players are wrong sometimes. Even as town.

[Beefster]

I agree with IB that Mathdino's frustration looks fake.

I find Paradox's defense of MD suspicious. It is sort of a fence-sit defense which is super common as scum. Or at the very least, it's the kind of thing I can see myself doing as scum.

mastina also doesn't bus, so we can be almost certain Math v C&S isn't SvS. It could still be TvT though.

[Beefster]

Lol. I just realized that could be taken as a fence-sit defense of mastina.

[Beefster]

VOTE: Paradox

We can revisit Mathdino later.

[Beefster]

We're not policy lynching a PR claim D1.

I think that would be everyone. IIRC, this was supposed to be a role madness game.

[Beefster]

I'm annoyed about people writing off mastina as incredibly town by tone. You're seriously underestimating mastina's scumgame in doing that, and if and when I get NK'd (wouldn't be surprised if I was NK'd for being right) and if acryon flips town,

mastina needs to die before LyLo

. I can't emphasise that enough. She will 100% have the best argument in LyLo regardless of her alignment, and I don't want to just gamble the game on which side she's on. If you're feeling nice, let her choose the LyLo lynch.

I'm fine with this, but she needs to die by vig if she shows no signs of being scum.

[Beefster]

Mastina is just Mastina. She sees something she doesn't like and she pursues that case and God help whomever is the target of that case, regardless of their alignment. She would play this exact way regardless of her alignment.

However, so far I haven't seen a sign of Scum!Mastina. There's at least one scumtell of hers that I am very well aware of, and that doesn't seem to exist in here.

Would you mind enlightening us on what tell that would be? Or would it be the kind of thing that self-awareness would prevent her from exhibiting?

[Beefster]

VOTE: acryon

From what I can tell, this is L-2.

[Beefster]

I was just hoping to get some insight on what to watch out for. I figured self-awareness would play into it and that he probably wouldn't be able to answer.

Meta is never enough by itself anyway.

[Beefster]

What an interesting turn of events. I had scumreads on both of you...

[Beefster]

Okay... So apparently, I'm very prone to confirmation bias because I just looked over Mathdino as if he was town and he looks town- and mastina's case is actually a bit of a stretch (and is littered with nitpicking). I changed my mind again. Get over it.

Iconeum's play is questionable for sure, but I don't think it's super scummy.

VOTE: Iconeum

I'd rather keep Mathdino alive at this point. I think both the gladiate targets have a decent chance of being town and I'm not letting a coin flip choose who dies.

acryon's desire for self preservation makes me think he's scum.

[Beefster]

Also note that acryon's gladiate use gives us very little information on him. It could very well be a scum role in a game like this and how MD and Icon flip gives no indication of acryon's alignment due to WIFOM.

[Beefster]

Forum mafia is hard.

[Beefster]

Let us ask then.

@MOD

can we go to a no lynch today?

I'll allow it if majority votes for it. However since I am doing this if no votes are cast for either player gladiated and no majority is achieved for no lynch then a coin shall be flipped to determine which is lynched.

No lynch goes to a coin flip I think.

@mod: am I correct in this statement? Or is the no lynch coin flip only if we time out D1?

[Beefster]

I will switch to No Lynch only if it actually results in no lynch.

[Beefster]

Let us ask then.

@MOD

can we go to a no lynch today?

I'll allow it if majority votes for it. However since I am doing this if no votes are cast for either player gladiated and no majority is achieved for no lynch then a coin shall be flipped to determine which is lynched.

No lynch goes to a coin flip I think.

@mod: am I correct in this statement? Or is the no lynch coin flip only if we time out D1?

@mod: can you please answer this?

[Beefster]

@gamma: ^^

[Beefster]

The number of protectives in this game is too damn high.

[Beefster]

If he did know that no lynch is possible why waste his gladiate on 2 people unlikely to get lynched who he in fact did not strongly scumread?

Because it didn't matter what he did--no matter what, it was a scumclaim. No matter what, he wasn't walking out of this. No matter what, he was only buying time. So if escaping death is impossible, instead, maximize utility while alive. The maximum utility is not to gladiate players who could be mislynched without the gladiate.

Maximum utility for a scum gladiator is to gladiate players who can

only

be mislynched WITH the gladiate

.

And that's EXACTLY what he did.

What happened to your Mathdino wagon?

[Beefster]

VOTE: No Lynch

[Beefster]

If we are certain scum has no roleblocker, we can also be certain that Momrangal did not make either nightkill. I know because of my role and action.

[Beefster]

And yes.
I am both a protective,
Yet also know thanks to my role scum have no roleblocker.
When you see my role, it'll all make sense how I know that.

If this is a JK claim, I cc.

[Beefster]

Last night you should have gotten something, and you're ignoring it. Something that substantial proof that I'm not scum

Sorry, I got nothing and frankly there is no role you could claim to send something that I would believe--especially given that I did not roleblock you.

I know scum don't have a roleblocker because I am one.
If scum had a roleblocker and I was wrong on my belief they don't have one, their usage of it would be most likely to block either me or Mathdino.
If scum had a roleblocker, they would absolutely not use it on you given the scumreads on you.

And since I doubt town has a second roleblocker role, that means you're full of shit.

Yup. You're a Jailkeeper.

VOTE: Carrot and Stick

I am

Ness's Mom

, the real Jailkeeper and cooker of Steak. GTFO.

[Beefster]

I breadcrumbed that when Not_Mafia entered.

[Beefster]

UNVOTE:

Apple Kid claim checks out.

[Beefster]

Anyone cc Apple Kid? The existence of Orange Kid implies Apple Kid, so I guess that confirms C&S as town unless we get a CC.

[Beefster]

@mom: That can certainly be true. It's also possible to have a backup JOAT without the real JOAT and that would reflect accurately on the source material since Orange Kid is just useless.

The rolecop is slightly suspicious on a town role, even if this is role madness. In fact, all 3 of those JOAT powers make sense for scum.

But C&S lives for now. Will reconsider on D3.

@Mathdino: would you mind flavor claiming?

[Beefster]

Dino should protect mastina and mastina should rolecop tonight.

[Beefster]

I'm about 5 pages behind but just to clarify.

I didn't receive anything from Mom last night. Also I refuse to roleclaim atm but I did not target Mom last night. This will be important later.

Well I did JK her, so that would make sense.

[Beefster]

Mastina used the RC on dino

What post? I can't find it.

[Beefster]

mastina wtf happened to "MY SCUMREADS ARE ALL COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT, IF IM WRONG ON ONE I SHIFT TO THE NEXT"
so much for you independently scumreading me

@Beefster: no, i'm protecting you, no way do i protect mastina here

@Marangal: dude she claimed the gunsmith guilty on me during D1

Edit: holy shit yeah i'm ignoring mastina today

Well there's no way I'm JKing you since that makes you useless.

[Beefster]

@Mathdino: would you mind flavor claiming?

[Beefster]

Actually, after thinking some more, C&S would be a decent lynch. If she flips town, we get information via associatives. If she flips scum, well, we hit scum and still get some information via associatives.

As far as I can tell, we currently have 3 conftown: Myself, Mathdino, and Momrangal. This holds especially true if mastina flips red.

[Beefster]

Messenger Momrangal gets blocked by me thinking that she's scum. Messenger is undoubtedly a town role and she claimed her target/role before I claimed mine. The only way that Momrangal can be scum is if I am too. (Hint: I'm not)

Dino is a bit more of a stretch. I really can't say he's conftown, but the general situation suggests he is.

VOTE: Carrot and Stick

We are NOT lynching Momrangal today. I accidentally confirmed her as town.

[Beefster]

carrot/kthnxbye/?

The third could actually by acryon,

especially

if C&S flips scum. She had every opportunity to fully bus him today, but did not, instead going after conftown Momrangal.

the worst is also plausible from my POE.

[Beefster]

@Not_Mafia: Are you Mr Saturn? [/joke]

[Beefster]

Here's the deal. like you said, you both could be scum. It's a super strong strat to come up with at night. It's also risky as it links the two of you.

You are not confirmed, thus she is not confirmed.

I'm just saying that throwing confirmed around like that doesn't make it true, especially to anyone not you (if you're town). I don't know you're town yet.

Go ahead and place your bets.

[Beefster]

Also, C&S may or may not be scum, but we aren't lynching them before we lynch acryon. Notice he's letting all this other shit play out and remaining silent yeah?

I can't prove that's what he's doing as he hasn't posted anywhere else since the end of D1, but my gut tells me it's so.

Oh sure, acryon is probably scum given his self preservation move, but how about you get off that fence for C&S?

[Beefster]

VOTE: Kthxbye

[Beefster]

Confession time
I don't get it

@Beef why does this confirm Momrangal as town?

I was thinking the messenger role was the same as the friendly neighbor. Since it's not, the line is not as clear as I thought it was.

[Beefster]

I go to work and 12 pages happen. WAT.

[Beefster]

Scum A50 --> Town Kthxbye
We can be almost certain of this because this is simply a bad bus and would backfire if SvS.

Town A50 --> Town Kthxbye
If A50's town, then he must actually be a commuter. This explains Kthxbye's "No result" and clears him.

Either way, Kthxbye has to be town.

UNVOTE:

[Beefster]

You're not conftown, you're not even town

Why is Kthxbye scum, in light of A50's claim?

Also
VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Beefster]

Scum A50 --> Town Kthxbye
We can be almost certain of this because this is simply a bad bus and would backfire if SvS.

Town A50 --> Town Kthxbye
If A50's town, then he must actually be a commuter. This explains Kthxbye's "No result" and clears him.

Either way, Kthxbye has to be town.

UNVOTE:

@Not_Mafia: this is why Kthxbye is town

[Beefster]

mastina who in the playerlist do you actually think you're swaying with posts like this lol

lol

Every time I see one of those posts, I think she's scummier than before.

In fact, three of her wagons today have been built around setup speculation. I know I'm not the one to talk, but between her pushing for players as scum for what powers they have and who their targets were is suspect. If she flips town, we can just take her advice.
VOTE: Carrot and Stick

[Beefster]

VOTE: Not_Mafia
Also a good wagon.
lol. Didn't read the last page when I posted that.

[Beefster]

It's possible. I'd have to look over ISOs to be sure, but I don't think they've had votes on each other.

[Beefster]

If Not_Mafia flips scum, the scumteam is probably M_M/mastina/acryon

[Beefster]

Beefster jailed her

Can confirm.

[Beefster]

A50

[Beefster]

Either Mom is lying or mastina is lying (jailkeeper does not rolestop actions as mod has said).

No. I JK'd Mom, not mastina. That roleblocks her.

[Beefster]

That plan seems a bit screwy, as it wastes mastina's roleblock, but it checks out as sane. Left to my own devices, I'd rather block BuJ at this point, but I can see how this plan breaks the setup.

[Beefster]

you're likely right on 2/3 of those

do you mind claiming? i heavily doubt you're gonna get shot anytime soon when there are 3 claimed protectives and 3 claimed investigatives

it occurs to me that because beefster's jail on marangal has been confirmed, one of the following must have happened:
A. mastina roleblocked me (or rolestopped Icon). No way there's a jailkeeper, JOAT with a roleblocker, and also another roleblocking ability.
B. I'm lying.
C. There's a strongman out there.

Going through the playerlist:
acryon: Is already a gladiator. That said, his flavour is literally Captain Strong, lol. Could be scum with both abilities.
A50: Isn't the strongman unless scum have a strongman ninja kill.
Beefster: Confirmed blocked Marangal.
Bujaber: Unclaimed, but softclaimed visitor of some kind. Doubtful this is strongman.
mastina: Icon was a backup JOAT, remember. Icon would not have been given a 1-shot strongman. Therefore mastina can't have this.
IB: Softing something or other.
Kthx: Confirmed follower.
Marangal: Wouldn't fakeclaim messenger. Probably not strongman.
N_M: Could have fakeclaimed his motion detector result, his results only came after a bunch of claims.
the worst: Some kind of investigative.

Roleblocker candidates: mastina
Strongman candidates: acryon, IB, N_M

I'd bet on A, personally.

[Beefster]

I'm okay with a double day acryon/A50 lynch.

Before I hammer, I want to check that the double day has been activated.

[Beefster]

VOTE: acryon

[Beefster]

IB is probably town.

VOTE: A50

[Beefster]

This was after acryon's flavour claim. It has to be flavour related.

OR.
Not_Mafia is just a scumfuck who was defending his scumbuddy.

No flavor necessary.

Or he legitimately thought his traitor was town...

[Beefster]

The issue I have with Beef is thus.

Why would he jail me of all people as scum? I wasn't particularly the most involved D1

Because your D1 posting was weird and you looked scummy. Given the night interactions, I def think you're town now.

mastina could have roleblocked, but given her scumspects, I find that unlikely unless A50 flips town. I can see her bussing a traitor, but not a regular scum partner.

Not_Mafia is probably the third scum if A50 flips scum.

[Beefster]

Actually, Not_Mafia is probably scum regardless. It's mastina who is conditional on A50's alignment.

[Beefster]

Yup. I definitely JK'd mastina, so there is a strongman unless mastina's roleblock had priority over my jailkeep.

@Gamma: what's the resolution of a JK and a RB that target each other?

VOTE: BuJaber
Half sheeping Dino's gamesolve. Half I had some suspicions before anyway.

[Beefster]

Yup. I definitely JK'd mastina, so there is a strongman unless mastina's roleblock had priority over my jailkeep.

@Gamma: what's the resolution of a JK and a RB that target each other?

VOTE: BuJaber
Half sheeping Dino's gamesolve. Half I had some suspicions before anyway.

This whole post makes me uneasy....

Understandably.

[Beefster]

I mean, you can go ahead and lynch me if it gives you peace of mind. The game is already pretty much solved. But I'm not scum.

Who did BuJ visit?

[Beefster]

Assuming mastina did in fact get killed instead of having some sort of modifier to her role:

If you're town you're power obviously cannot stop the kill so we don't need you anymore.
If you're scum we hit scum.

Unfortunately since mastina was too busy catching up we don't know for sure that she followed Dino's plan.

Even if she didn't she wouldn't have been the one to die.

[Beefster]

^ that

[Beefster]

@BuJ: claim your targets, please.

[Beefster]

TBF, it's a little late for that because he could easily lie with the most convenient target claims. We'd really need N_M or Kthx to confirm.

[Beefster]

:shrug:

[Beefster]

Wait, so NM motion detected Momrangal and saw nothing (because she holstered), right?

Doesn't that clear her from the NK? That is unless she's a Ninja

and

a Strongman. Or there are actually 4 mafia.

It seems a bit silly to me to have to check her if that was the case.

I think the worst's investigate would be better spent on BuJ.

How does the action plan change if I flip green?

[Beefster]

The plan doesn't change.

the worst can only check people not performing night actions. Bujaber compulsively performs night actions. He can only check me or Marangal.

N_M did in fact motion detect Marangal, which leaves the option open that N_M is just scum with Marangal. Hence the second opinion.

We'll probably have to no-lynch at some point in order to get more clears, but c'est la vie.

That leaves us at 3 possibilities for the remaining scum.
- Me
- BuJaber
- Momrangal & Not_Mafia

There are 8 of us left and room for 2 mislynches or 1 if Mom & N_M are the remaining scum. Meaning today or tomorrow, one of them has to be lynched to guarantee a win. But the game is indeed solved if scum is in these 4.

I doubt there are 4 scum, so that leaves no other viable option for me besides BuJaber, whom I am already voting.

[Beefster]

If you leave me alive, I could possibly save a life with my roleblock... and in doing so, find a mafia. Even if the mafia creates a red herring out of my target by holstering, the game is still solved.

[Beefster]

Neither are you.

I find it highly unlikely that Kthx is mafia. tw probably isn't either.

[Beefster]

Kthx gladiating A50 almost makes sense honestly

There's a difference between "almost" and ""

[Beefster]

I'll say it again.
If Beefster is cleared, I will lynch Not_Mafia.
If Beefster is not cleared, I will lynch Beefster.

So why the fuck. Would you lynch me today.

So in other words, I have no reason to wait for tw's result because I already know what it will be.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Beefster]

It's not.

[Beefster]

So here's the deal. This game has either 1 or 2 mafia remaining.

If there is 1 mafia remaining, it is confirmed to be Beefster.

Therefore if we lynch town today and the game isn't over by tomorrow, we autolynch Beefster. I think this is something we can all agree on.

So we should act as if there's 2 mafia remaining. Find all the possible scumteams and lynch once we've ruled out some of them.

If we assume Marangal townslipped earlier, scumteams available are:
Mathdino/TW (massive fakeclaim plan)
Mathdino/Beefster (Beefster jailkeeper, Mathdino anything)
Mathdino/Not_Mafia (Mathdino strongman, N_M roleblocker)
TW/Beefster (TW strongman, Beefster jailkeeper)
TW/Not_Mafia (TW strongman, N_M anything)
TW/IB (TW strongman, IB double-dayer)
Beefster/Not_Mafia (Beefster jailkeeper, N_M strongman)

I don't know how it happened, but I've been set up.

I holstered last night.

VOTE: the worst

[Beefster]

If you don't believe me, I get it. I just hope there are only 3 scum.

[Beefster]

Maybe there was a roleblocker all along. Not a strongman.

Think about it. We've been announcing all our protection targets every night, so it's pretty trivial to block the right one and then sweep in for a kill. Then, when tw had his chance to confirm me, he gets blocked.

There have to be gaps in the night plans that mafia was able to slip through.

UNVOTE:

[Beefster]

Math, can you help me out? What were the plans for N1 and N2?

Alternatively, it could be something like Odd-night strongman Even-night roleblocker.

[Beefster]

Or actually, all claimed actions would be nice.

[Beefster]

the worst, did you receive a message from Momrangal?
I remember seeing that in one of the plans.

[Beefster]

I'm thinking that with Mom being the only player still unaccounted for, it could be her.

N_M has been accurate with his motion detection AFAICT, so he's clear in my mind. That leaves no other suspects besides Momrangal and maybe Mathdino.

[Beefster]

I am not a scumpartner, but I will gladly

VOTE: Momrangal

[Beefster]

I would say just go ahead and lynch me for information, but if your theory of 4 scum really is true (seems plausible given what roles we've seen), this is lylo.

How do things change if Math is scum?

[Beefster]

Day 1:
acryon gladiates Iconeum/Mathdino

Night 1:
Not_Mafia motion detects acryon: detects no motion
Beefster jails Momrangal
Mathdino guards Iconeum
Momrangal messages Carrot: fails
BuJaber visits whoever
the worst checks Iconeum
Kthxbye follows Almost50: no result
TheGoldenParadox hides behind Iconeum: dies
Carrot ?????? (cookies for anyone who can actually figure out Carrot's night action, because I suspect they rolecopped me)
InfernoBrafin, Iconeum, acryon, do nothing

Iconeum dies

Day 2:
InfernoBrafin uses double day

Night 2:
Not_Mafia motion detects Momrangal: detects no motion
Beefster jails Carrot
BuJaber visits Mathdino
the worst investigates InfernoBrafin: town
Kthxbye follows Not_Mafia: sees investigative action
Carrot roleblocks Beefster
InfernoBrafin, Mathdino, Momrangal, do nothing

Carrot dies

Day 3:
N/A

Night 3:
Not_Mafia motion detects Mathdino: detects no motion
the worst investigates Beefster: no result
Kthxbye follows Beefster: dies
Beefster, InfernoBrafin, Mathdino, Momrangal do nothing

Wait so why didn't Momrangal send a message last night?

Nothing I can come up with is consistent with these actions. I was entertaining the idea of a Math/Mom team that went something like this:

Mathdino is actually a even-night strongman odd-night roleblocker. Bodyguard is a very safe claim to make because it isn't terribly common. It was probably his designated fake claim.
Mom really is a messenger.

N1: A50 makes the kill
N2: Mathdino makes the kill. Nobody was investigating him or watching him. He simply waltzed in for the strongman kill.
N3: Momrangal makes the kill. It's why she didn't send a message. Since Math was occupied with blocking tw (which would have been caught by NM's motion detect), Mom had to make the kill.

This doesn't work because NM would have detected Mathblocking on N3.

NM could be scum depending on his timing of motion detection results. If it was always after the claimed action that works. He played off his N3 results as a joke.

NM could be our roleblocker.
VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Beefster]

N_M is confirmed investigative...

That's the thing here. Nothing is adding up.

Momrangal and myself are the only ones that make sense, but I know I'm not scum.

So I'm just left scratching my head.

It can't be Mathdino alone because he would have to be a multitasking roleblocker strongman ninja for that to be possible
It can't be Not_Mafia alone because he's a confirmed motion detector who has acted every night and detected consistently with claimed actions
It can't be the worst alone because of his investigation results.
It can't be Momrangal alone, but her only plausible partner is me.
I admittedly don't have a great defense, but I know I'm town.

No pairings of any two of the above players make any sense, except for me/Momrangal

The only remaining possibility would be tw/IB. the worst could have lied about both N2 and N3 results. N1 was convenient for him. Fake-clearing IB is easy and so is fake being blocked. He's never been followed or otherwise investigated. IB's power is weird on scum, but it gives him big time town points.

I know I'm grasping at straws here. I really have no idea what the fuck is going on.

VOTE: the worst

[Beefster]

This game makes no sense.

I like the No Lynch night plan.

VOTE: No Lynch

[Beefster]

Actually

VOTE: Momrangal

I still have no idea what the fuck is going on.

[Beefster]

I'm not a guilty. I'm still unconfirmed. But sure whatever. Nothing else makes sense from an outside myself perspective, but I know I'm town, soo...

[Beefster]

VOTE: Mathdino

[Beefster]

VOTE: Not_Mafia
VOTE: Mathdino
VOTE: Momrangal
VOTE: the worst
VOTE: InfernoBrafin
VOTE: Beefster

Fuck this game. I give up.

I'll throw and self-vote.

[Beefster]

the worst: well played with the weak cop claim. You had us thoroughly fooled.