Mini 1993 - Earthbound Mafia: Giygas' Curse - GAME OVER

[BuJaber]

Sup

VOTE: infernobrafin can I vote inferno only?
Nothing against him there's just something.. I don't know. Robotic? About his tone.

I'm skipping RVS. I am outright calling him scummy.

[BuJaber]

@mod - my access might be limited until saturday. I should still be able to post once a day easily but this is a heads up in case I can't.

[BuJaber]

Inferno:

@BuJaber, mind if we call you BJ for simplification?.

I do mind. Please call me Bu or Buj. You can capitalize or not capitalize any letter you see fit. I'm used to these shortened versions.

As for why I called you scummy is because your tone seemed unnatural. It was as if someone is trying to talk in as neutral a way as they can. Only scum would feel the need to do so. I only called inferno scummy not james because james hadn't said anything yet at that point.

Your posts have since lost that toneless feel to them. You are now genuinenly frantic and nervous. So far I have to agree that your slot is looking like a very likely scum. Especially that math sounds almost exactly like he did when he replaced in the only game I've played with him. He loves over explaining. He can lose himself in the little things. But more importantly here he is just right about the semantics debate. So please put the whole what does 'scummy' thing to bed. People always have different interpretations of certain words or phrases in every game. Infer what each person means from context. You called him out on him calling you scummy but not calling you scum and he responded and explain what it means from his pov.
Not to mention that this discussion is pretty much what mafia is about. Town players scumhunt and generally don't care about themselves if town can win. They are therefore likely to appear scummy in some instances by saying things and not thinking about how they sound. PR's may also intentionally do scummy things to avoid being NK'd. As for scum they are trying to appear town but if they overdo it it starts to look fake. They also need to lynch tactically to ensure they can win. I can continue but I think the point is clear. There is a lot of overlap between what a town player would do and what a scum player would do. The game boils down to figuring out intentions behind actions.

If anything IB is the more likely scum.

What makes him more likely scum then math, from your perspective?

Very good question. This post is NAI. But your previous post has me slightly townleaning.

And math of course I'm townreading if that isn't clear.

I like my vote on I-B.


Pedit - yes icon yes. More good questions. I wanted to talk about the worst too.. I got distracted with the 'scummy' definition topic.

The worst seems to be posting just enough to look active and mainly NAI stuff. Scumlean.

[BuJaber]

Oh I forgot to mention that math replaced into a town slot in our only previous game together. ***

[BuJaber]

Erm what?

I'm sure you can interpret a lot of things I've done as scummy but how am I piggybacking? I started the wagon. I also commented on inferno v skitter earlier and gave an updated opinion based on their continuation.

[BuJaber]

Oops ignore the last bit. Wrong game.

[BuJaber]

@all: Who has played with the worst before? I need a sounding board to read him better.

Okay right now I'm feeling IB, mom, one of {sing, LUV, kthx, whoever marshy is supposed to be, alban} as scum.

The worst, acryon, beef are null.

Math, icon, paradox town.

Reasons for IB mentioned before, reasons for mom is because he seems to be coming in with theories first then reading and if I'm honest with myself I didn't like how he accused me. The rest because statistics - too many lurkers - and I didn't want to put them in null list because null list for me is for later analysis as those 3 people seem hard to read and I need more. I want to try and sort the scumlist as soon as possible.

I think that's everyone.

@kthx - sorry to hear that. I wish you and your family strength and patience.

[BuJaber]

Ironically, I it really weird that you have the exact same PoE pool as I do. TW, acryon, Beef are all townlean to town for me.

I've played with the worst before, as a few have noted. Played his first towngame and I cold meta'd his first scumgame (scumbuddies with someone that I later hydra'd with).

Tbh, I'm nervous to go after Marangal so soon because if we open that floodgate now it's never gonna close. Our playstyles don't mesh so well. I should be able to sort her by associations later on though.

marshy is alban, good to know you're not scum with them.

Regardless, talk to me about your null-list.

Null list is people I'll keep an eye out but can't place. The worst seems like scum to me but it could just be his playstyle. So far I haven't picked up on anything in particular he did. Beef I could see being either alignment. He doesn't seem afraid to accuse people and build cases. Icon does make a point wrt the 180. But then again beef never seemed sure of his math read anyway so I don't know. He's being kinda fence-sitty on math. That might not be a scum thing on its own though. Acryon simply hasn't posted enough for me to learn either way. The first few posts seemed like he's focusing too much on the hydra thing but he did move on and start to offer reads and respond to people.

[BuJaber]

Yeah I read those. I admit I forgot this post you made about acryon and I'll agree with acryon likely to be town.

But the other two is a matter of opinion and anecdotal evidence. So we'll just have to see.

[BuJaber]

@acryon - I'll get to the worst when I can if you want a break down of each of his posts. As for paradox yes gut and some meta of his town intros.

@inferno - I didn't mean to sound aggressive. I wouldn't really get upset if you called me BJ but you asked a question so I responded with my preferred nicknames.
@james - the question you said I did not answer was not difected at me. It was directed at Beef.

Your slot is not just 'sticking to your gut' you seem to feel attacked by everyone. There's a certain come and forth that is expected in a mafia game. Why do you get so defensive whenever anything one of you does is questioned? And why do you attack everyone that votes you?

I'll agree that your continued aggression towards math is more likely to come from town than scum. But if I'm not mistaken most of the argument between you two are about the definition of scummy. So I don't really see town motivation for that. Math has done other things for me to townread him but him overly explaining and arguing about something insignificant is actually a personality trait. Otherwise I'd also call that part of his posts scummy.

[BuJaber]

(By personality trait it means for math it is NAI.)

[BuJaber]

IB my first vote on you was a gut reaction to your opening posts. You sounded like a robot. That is a scum tell because people sound like robots when they are trying to not convey any emotion.

I am well aware that I cannot go through the entire game with my first read but you haven't really done much since that makes me change my mind. You claim you read my ISO. How do you miss that? You can think my reasoning is weak and argue against it but you can't say I didn't give a reason when I did.

[BuJaber]

Buju also said there are to many lurkers.

How can there have been when this game is only two days old if even?

Brafin:

This is an interesting point, one I had not considered. Isn't Lurking = NAI?

Sure but my point was that given the game started and there is plenty of things to talk about and posts to get reads from I would expect when there are 4-5 lurkers in a 12 player game one of them would have to be doing it on purpose.

[BuJaber]

I am?

Yet another person on my scumlist trying to dispute facts.
I laid out my D1 reads for everyone. The only way they would change is if people post something that changes my mind. There's nothing more for me to actively do at this moment in time.

[BuJaber]

Yes there is a lot to react to and calling out lurkers now now would be an ok think to maybe do but the game had just gotten out of RVS and there was like one maybe two things to react to.

Why is it insane to believe that there are 5 people who hadn't posted in a >48 hr time frame

So me calling out people for not posting is wrong, but it's perfectly fine for people to say I'm not doing anything useful?

I see

Pot calling the kettle black.

IB of course completely ignored half of my case on them even when they asked me about it and I explained it again. I don't know what I want more. For you to be town and realize that you don't have a clue how to play with fellow townies or for you to be scum so at least it makes sense what you're doing.


Can we lynch either IB or Mom? scum have nobody to go after so they're focusing on me. They know they can't go after someone else. I had an early wagon on me and nobody is townreading me strongly so I'm a good scum target.

Frigging hilarious this. I get called out for not scumhunting in the only game where I am clearly the one doing most of the work. You guys realize post count is not an indication of how much a player is contributing right?

It kinda makes sense to soft-defend lurkers if you are scumpartners with one or more of them.
SO I'm pretty confident there are 2 scum in {IB, Mom, NM, LUV, Sing, acryon, (and paradox though less likely since I'm TR'ing him at the moment)}

If there is a 3rd scum that would be pretty difficult to figure out but if that were the case I'd have to reconsider all my townreads. Though a 3rd scum probably isn't likely because it seems risky to defend a lurking scum partner if you have another one also in the game. Unless of course the game is as easy as it seems and both IB and mom are scum, that leaves one of the lurkers as their final partner. At least that theory would explain why they haven't gone after each other or disagreed. IB agree that mom is confusing, and that asking questions could be scummy but they low-key defend mom early on.

Can one of you just bus the other one so it's easier?

[BuJaber]

Regarding IB: Like you asked the question of why I found you scummy, and then Dino is the one that responds not you. You obviously will argue that your neutral tone at start isn't AI and that would be fine, we'll argue back and forth. It's not even hard evidence so I am actually open to changing my mind contrary to what you seem to think. However you didn't do that. You just up and ignored it and went back to frantic and nervous. Which btw you can totally be both. A person can be nervous about getting caught so they frantically try to come up with a way to explain themselves out of a jam.


pedit - NM replaced into a lurker slot. I have no reads on him either way. I'm just drawing conclusions based on my belief that mom or IB or both are scum.

[BuJaber]

I assume you're referring to me, BuJ.

Frantic? I'm always frantic, especially as town. It's when I'm not frantic that you have to watch out for me. Or stated differently, when it looks like I have a plan, I'm probably scum. But eh. Self meta defense. Do what you will with it. I only have 2 recent completed scum games for you to go on anyway.

Nervous? Nah.

I was talking to IB but okay I'll keep that in mind

[BuJaber]

What is AoE?

What is there to answer about your question? I think it's insane that 5 townies would miss 48hours of the game after confirming. You clearly don't think it's insane. It's a matter of opinion.

Your other points are just your pov vs my pov. We are both attacking each other so we both hate each other in the game. It's cool. I didn't do any misrepresentation. If you think I did, then please can you explain what the difference is? Because I don't see it.

[BuJaber]

Here let me make it clearer, because the way this is going you're just gonna play off my mislynch as "he just sucks at town" and that's worse than getting killed as scum, and if they do give you a pass for lynching me I won't be able to handle it.


You both are basically saying I'm being anti-town right? let's just take it one step at a time. if no, I'll go re read.

[BuJaber]

IB saying I'm reactive is clearly bullshit as I have started a wagon all by myself and declared my reads without prompting.

[BuJaber]

Oh wasn't just IB.. you too.

There you go.

re read done

[BuJaber]

Have at it whatever. Let's see who gets lynched. if you're town too we can have a sit down after the game and I'll take as many classes as you're willing to teach.

[BuJaber]

Okay I just washed my face. I'll try to keep emotion out of this one.

Momrangel: Your latest posts, especially 281 show me that you are interpreting literally everything I'm doing and saying as scummy.

No player does everything scummy. It is pretty much impossible. So I can only assume that you are finding everything scummy because this is a case of confirmation bias.

Therefore I really can't see what I can gain by continuing to appeal to you.

Answer me this question though, because I think it's a good one, Why is being reactive even AI? Why wouldn't a townie also play reactively?

[BuJaber]

Yes you should read the thread

[BuJaber]

Yes you should read the thread

Why? What is/was so important that needs me to read first hand rather than you tell me about it?

Because there is heated conflict and I'm involved and you need to form your own opinion.

But basically I think it's obvious it isn't SvS so it's either TvS or TvT and I for one would appreciate the outsider perspective if I am to learn anything from this game after all alignments are revealed.

[BuJaber]

Basically I think we're in a situation where it's either me or IB or Mom today so it comes down to how people read us.

[BuJaber]

Inferno and brafin.. right now are you both scumreading mathdino?

[BuJaber]

Dino the odds of you surviving as town until lylo are near impossible. As in regardless of what people think of you or how they're reading you nobody can deny that you are an influencer and a polarizer. Therefore scum keeping you alive is a risky move as they would a) not guarantee they can manipulate you and b) can't be sure if people will sheep you or go against you with the votes.

Therefore if you somehow do end up alive at lylo you would be the lynch from my pov as the only way to explain your survival would be that you are scum.

Therefore going after Mathdino doesn't make sense imo from a long-term strategy kind of approach. Unless you are sure beyond doubt that dino is scum lynching him here removes an obvious NK from the playerlist and makes scum's job easier.

The other issue would be that analysing a dino wagon would be difficult. I could see all scenarios possible here: scum buddying him, town following him, town going against him, scum going against him, scum faking a fight with a dino partner, scum townreading a dino partner. From my perspective I would have no clue where to start with associatives after dino flips. Like unless someone left a really obvious clue the info we gain from lynching dino is minimal.

As opposed to someone quieter or more newbish where if someone TR's them they'd have to go out of their way to explain why and in that you would have an easier job figuring out their intent.

But for the record I'm still TR'ing dino.

[BuJaber]

VOTE: Paradox

BuJ, do you realize how much WIFOM that last post was?

Yes obviously but I wasn't trying to sell that MD is town, I'm just trying to show Carrot that he's a bad lynch, and for that purpose I reckon WIFOM is good enough.

[BuJaber]

@acryon - why did you comment on carrot's first readlist (the one he claims is correct up to page 3), but not the second?

[BuJaber]

But I am town!

Why is Buju town and what do you make of me having two followers on Buju?

Also how do you feel about how Buju engages me back?

Inferno:

So far, this is what stuck out. I'm having a hard time sorting the last few pages, so I'm probably going to reread... and reread... and reread.
I just want to point out that this is a really weird way to phrase this question. It looks like scum laying a trap.

Also, I would also like to know why all these people are calling this slot obvtown, becasue I can tell where the scumreads on me are coming from. So I don't understand what part of my play is making me obvtown.

This is enough for me to switch my vote to Mom. If you're willing to throw shade at Mom now (with no real pressure on mom), that makes my theory that you two are scum partners a lot weaker. If you are now distancing yourself after you and mom were buddying the whole game then you've outdone yourself and it would be excellent scum play but I just don't think scum would do that.

Plus I've been rereading your slot's posts and I think it would be really weird for the two heads of the hydra to play so differently consistently if you are scum. You're doing way too much weird shit and being all over the place. Scum would probably be more self-conscious about it.

VOTE: Mom


Mom if I flip town who would you scumread?

[BuJaber]

If these two don't stop arguing we need to policy lynch.
Probably IB because dino is a bad d1 lynch as I explained, but I also don't want to give dino a pass for continuing this. He should and does know better.

IB - I think both heads are making these mistakes, if not sorry but anyway- the fact that you came up with that godfather theory, the mason pair idea, and you coming up with entire scumteams and associations this early on tells me that you are making assumptions then coming up with narratives that make sense.

Now this is just me, it might be not be common, but basically a townie shouldn't be doing this. You scumhunt by reading people. Who makes sense as scum individually? After flips and other information comes to light (from PRs for example) you then start to form links between players.

Moreover I don't think I have ever tried to think of what possible role somebody has to explain their actions. It seems to me like an exercise in futility. Because how do you at day 1 with no information come up with the game setup that the mod has chosen. (Which in the case of non-normal games means sooooo many possible roles and setups) confidently enough that you then begin attributing players to those roles you've imagined.

You know why tunneling is bad right? Because of confirmation bias. Well this reverse scumhunting process you're doing is imo worse as it is even more prone to error.

Anyway those are my two cents regardless of your alignment.

[BuJaber]

Oh right I forgot the second point


Your last argument against dino is rediculous. Town doesn't know who scum is. If I say someone is scummy and I'm town I'd still have to acknowledge whether in my head or in the game that I could be wrong. If you searched the site I am sure you will find thousands of posts where people say "x is scummy for doing y, but if x is town then z". That is a normal thought process.

[BuJaber]

I only bothered to write this because I actually really believe you're town now and just making fundamental logical mistakes.

It's far more believable than you being scum doing this shit intentionally. And newb scum makes even less sense since you are way too comfortable arguing about this.

[BuJaber]

Logic mistakes not logical mistakes.

[BuJaber]

Damn it I lost the post. Typing this on phone.

Ahh.. I can't re write it.

Tldr - I'm having a lot on conflicting thoughts about the slot. But:
- don't think they are independently coming up with them
- they are clearly not always communicating before posting
- they feel they have to align their reads

Normally yes this would be a case of scum hydra sticking to one story but I've beeb seeing less and less scum motivation behind literally anything they're doing. Or it's really really bad. They can't really think any of this gets people on their side. What I suspect is happening is they are deciding to stick to an idea and as they move with it they get misleading positive reinforcement from their partner and their own confirmation bias. It becomes something like "well we can't both be so wrong here".
Whereas scum just know they're wrong so I feel like the way scum would try to get out of a bad situation would be different. They're not trying to weasel out here. They are trying to think themselves onto a place where everything makes sense.

I get the feeling I'm starting to ramble and not make much sense so I'll stop.

Pedit - will read IB's post after posting this

[BuJaber]

@IB - I don't want to continue to talk aout game theory while the game is going on. Do you mind if I respond after the game?

But just as it related to this game the short answer is dino saying he doesn't want to give scum tips and him scum or null reading you are two independent things. It's like hedging your bets. He evaluates that the risk of giving scum you tips is greater than the need to convince town you why he's right. So just in case you are scum he doesn't want to take that risk.

At the same time he has a read on you which us irrelevant. Because he could even be townreading you and the above would apply.

This is all from town pov. His argument was a town pov argument because regardless of his alignment he will always represent himself as town.

[BuJaber]

@IB - I don't know we are getting into the deep inner workings of someone's brain here. I honestly haven't paid enough attention to the fight when I saw that it just keeps going. I don't care enough to go back to look at his progression.

Just think about this if he was strongly scumreading you why didn't he try harder to lynch you earlier? Also if he is scum same question. He went back and forth a little and he spent too much effort explaining his perspective and meaning. You two already hihacked most of the threaf. If he were scum it wouldn't look too weird if he just tried to get you lynched without sorting other people.

[BuJaber]

Why is day 1 still not over?

Can someone answer me this?

@MD, icon, IB, mastina, TW - Most of your scumreads are active players. How have a scum team of mostly active players not managed to close this day?


I need to do a reread but I am strongly suspecting Beef, mom and kthxbye slot. I need to reread Beef specifically but if I remember correctly he has been fence sitting all game.

My spidey sense is telling me something is off with the way mastina is townreading me. It feels like buddying. Mastina you haven't once interacted directly with me. But again I suspect carrot v MD is TvT yet again. Also because she fucking nails it with all her posts about me. But I'll add that I like to consider myself a student of the game. I am interested in playing the game the best way possible that suits my personality more than I am interested in winning. So If I lose along the way for doing things I haven't done before it is a positive overall outcome. Plus VT is my favorite role so that should give you an insight into my personality. Favorite roles tell you a lot about a person imo.


And btw your explanation of why we won't lynch you makes no sense. "You won't lynch me for mislynching twice because I am more likely to lynch 1 or 2 scum" huh?


@mod - please please please update the OP with the replacements.

[BuJaber]

My point was apart from that sense of unease and the strange statement about her not getting lynched I am townreading the slot.

And it's helpful because I want people to start looking at the game differently because I suspect strongly that there is a lot of TvT tunneling and the scumteam have mostly been taken a passive approach. Because otherwise I think we would be at a different game state. There have been like what 4 1v1's that ended up in a stalemate.

Why does it matter how many days we have left? There is so much content already and day 1's have ended on a lot less. Do you find it normal that acryon seems to be the only wagon that more than 3 people would comfortably be willing to vote for?
Do you find it normal that nobody got to L-1 yet ?(haven't actually counted if that's true but I think it is)

[BuJaber]

Buj, you are 'strongly' suspecting these 3:

-beef
-mom
-kthxbye

Why are you not pushing these slots harder if you scumread them? There's over a whole week left for you to do stuff with.
What has kthxbye posted that makes you strongly scumread him?
If you have such strong reads, why are you not developping them? Instead you want the day to end?

Mom I have pushed but I'm not getting a lot of people to agree on.

Beef I just mentioned why I want to go after him. Nobody offered any opinion yet, and for me to build a real case I need to re-read some stuff and I haven't had the time yet.

Kthxbye is only because of my new theory in 573 that scum haven't ended the day because they couldn't yet. That lead me to think I have to look at the more passive players. Obviously I am not suggesting all the scum will be lurkers, but that's what put kthx on my radar.

Okay MD I'd like to see where the overlap between players is on who they're willing to lynch. So for now you're doing your part.

I would lynch mom without hesitation.
I would lynch beef unless my reread changes my mind.
I suspect kthx but can't just lynch without any real posts from that slot so we'll have to wait.
I would be willing to lynch acryon.
I would be willing to lynch NM or paradox if those are the only wagons the majority agree on.
If I don't like mastina's response to these last few posts then I would put her with NM/paradox.

I would not be willing to lynch anyone else at the moment.

[BuJaber]

Sorry kthx that came out wrong. By 'real' posts I meant game-related.

[BuJaber]

Okay I read Beef's ISO.

Not sure I can change my mind based on it. Like he has on occassion made some good points, but his scumhunting isn't very aggressive. He calls some things out but doesn't usually follow through much.
He went back and forth on math a lot but to be fair that in itself isn't AI.
What is he saying in 268

Still not sure why he thought I was referring to him (275).

His strongest push was on mom and obviously I'm biased but it was a good case imo - but then he dropped it really easily.

I dislike his use of meta especially when it doesn't seem to have helped him be more confident in his reads.

He claims he's confused or unsure a lot more than I'd expect for town (the fact he's actually saying it could be a scumtell not that he's unsure).

If you look at his posts a large portion of them are talking about MD in some way, and after the flip flopping it seems he's settled on scumreading MD but then in the end he decides he'll revisit later without explaining why.
Also why vote paradox there? His only case on paradox is paradox defending MD, but if that is the case why not vote MD? He also said he's willing to vote for acryon so why not vote there instead?


pedit - @acryon: you mean you don't see me and icon as scum together? Because you put both of us as scumleans.
FWIW if I do base my opinion on our previous game together then you are probably town. You were confused and unsure how to read me there too. I don't know if you'd imitate that to look like town again here though. I feel like the normal approach for scum!acryon here would be to not bring up the fact he has trouble reading me, but if he's trying to get me to town read him he might.

[BuJaber]

@Mom - No I am acknowledging that you

could

be town. And if I am gonna lose a 1v1 I'd rather not lose it to another townie.

So by asking you to not tunnel you either end up a) letting go or b) you continue to push for my lynch.
If b) and you're town that's the worst case scenario and after the game it'd probably be a good idea for me to go back and analyse what happened.

If b) and you're scum one of us gets lynched. If it's you that's great and if it's me people would be a little more inclined to lynch you next and so it'd be a 1 for 1 trade.

If a) and you're town we can be more productive and perhaps catch an actual scum

If a) and you're scum I admit I wouldn't really know what would happen. I might end up townreading you and that'd be bad or I might think you're buddying me and I'd catch you but at the very least we'd both be posting more about other people and that's good for town anyway.

More importantly though regardless of whether or not you continue to scumread me by asking you this I get more information about your pov that I can use to sort you better and/or we can find another player we are both willing to lynch. The interesting part is that since we are scumreading each other then if we lynch someone else we both agree on and that player flips town, the most likely explanation is that one of us is scum. So town will know who to lynch.

And if the player flips scum it is likely we are both town.

This is because if two townies with a widely different approach or views about what is scummy and what isn't are both scumreading someone that person is probably scum as he would have checked off more 'scumtells' than anyone we could have independently scumread.

And if it's TvS between us it is unlikely that whichever one of us is scum would be buddying up to the player they've more or less been single-handedly going after and butting heads with. It would look too weird. Thus the scum would not point at a scum partner to gain credit in this scenario and instead would lynch one of the other townies. We'd get lynched after. That means one scum dead in 2 or 3 lynches max. Hopefully if it takes 3 lyncges the town would get the associations right and finish the scum off.

So I reckon it'd be a win for town in most of these scenarios.

[BuJaber]

For the record Almost50, it has not escaped my notice that you haven't engaged my posts.

I've learned the hard way that once you're on a roll there's no changing your mind about it. I don't have the time or the energy to go back on forth with you on your reads.

I'd be content with an acryon lynch today and we can wait for the night action to give us more clues. acryon happens to be my top SR and I see that we agree on that, so that's fair and I don't feel motivated to consume much effort elsewhere on D1 tbh.

Seems like the only issue you've had with me is 16, which you seem to have held onto. We're both town. Look somewhere else.

Or if you're town he's scum.
In fact if you're town it makes a lot of sense that he'd be scum.

Who else apart from you would be relatively easy to lynch that almost50 could vote for without putting much effort into explaining why?

[BuJaber]

Does that include LUV's posts?

Also what about his inconsistency with dino?
Dino goes from a townread to a scumread (even though he doesn't say it explicitly) because of just one thing he did? One which doesn't even seem that scummy. And then he's just "willing to let dino live"?

While we're talking about him is it normal for almost50 to quote and respond to his own question? It pinged me the first time but I didn't want to form an opinion on just that and I've since focused on other slots but reading his ISO again now I noticed it again.

[BuJaber]

i'd say it's 40% policy 40% reaction/pressure 20% memes

Umm.. so am I allowed to drive or not after having that??

@Math: Did you include Gamma deliberately in your reads? Hmmm.. probably not. I hadn't even joined the game by then so it can't be that you are baiting me.

But still, man.. you know THAT is why I SR'd srceen in the game you were modding, so excuse me if I'm starting to really be wary of you.

fuck i mixed up my games lol

GDI! And same excuse too. Now why would you confuse ONLY ONE SLOT and not any other(s)??

Also Screenplay was town, lol.

I know he was, but that's not my point. The point is when I saw that the first thing that jumped into my mind is "Dino is setting this test for me, because he saw what I did with srceen, so he wants to see how I would react here..", but then I realized I was not yet in this game by the time you posted that.

And it's still scummy, mate. Evidently it's not exactly "hard evidence" as I thought it was when I pushed srceen, but still including the MOD in your read list is suspicious unless you make it clear you were joking.

But I will accept your explanation for now.. I know I almost posted in the wrong game thread many times before for similar reasons.

I think I'm willing to let Dino live for today. Forcing him into defense + The IB issue aren't helping me get a read on him at all.

That said, it's be a farce if all three turned out to be Town, and scum were just watching in amusement. Of the 3 I'd say Mastina comes off townier followed by Dino, while I still have doubts about the IB slot (basically Inferno, which may or may not be just me not liking the play style.)

@Inferno: Can you please remind me of the last game we played together? I mean, I know I've played you before but can't remember anything about it.

How is this not implying you were scumreading him at some point? You don't even go back to a townread.. the last thing you land on is a null read.

[BuJaber]

That's not even the point.

The point was why is acryon TR'ing you.
Do you think you've done/said enough to be townread?

[BuJaber]

Do you think you've done/said enough to be townread?

I dunno. Do you?

I don't go like "I'll post this because it makes me townread". I just post my thoughts regardless.

Also, does "I will accept your explanation for now" imply I'm SRing Dino? I don't care how YOU perceive my play/talk. I said to ask Dino himself if he thought I was SRing him. He knows me better, and he is the subject of the this discussion.

I don't do that either, but when someone does TR me their reasons have to make sense. I might in that case read my ISO to see how it might look liked to an uninformed party.

As for the last paragraph: Yes it does though. You wouldn't need an explanation if you didn't think what he did was a possible scumtell. And " for now" implies you'd revisit. But okay I'll ask.

MD - was A50 scumreading you?


Pedit - yeah what was the point of that question Beef?

[BuJaber]

Thought we were waiting for kthx?

It'd be funny if kthx hammers actually.

Intent to hammer.. MD was pretty much only holdout on an acryon lynch but not anymore.

[BuJaber]

MD have you reread any other ISO?

Beef in particular

[BuJaber]

So we can only vote MD, icon, or acryon, right?

VOTE: icon

[BuJaber]

Wiki says can be multiple targets with PR anyway we can easily check the claim

VOTE: beef

[BuJaber]

Well maybe not if mod doesn't post VC's lol

[BuJaber]

Icon what do you suggest we do if he is indeed scum gladiator? We dont't have a choice and I don't see how he would be lying about gladiator.

So between you and math it'll always be you. Like I said I really want math to survive until lylo because then he'd be auto lynch at that point. Obviously with his claim that's not gonna happen anymore, but his claim makes him even worse for a lynch.

And frankly acryon made a plausible case of why you are scum. But unfortunately since you were widely townread your lynch gives us nothing.

If we somehow can lynch acryon I still want to.

[BuJaber]

That doesn't make sense. Why would my claim not change who to lynch?
Also, if you admit my lynch gives nothing, it's super weird you still chose me.

Don't understand the first question.

Your lynch gives nothing if town but you're still more likely to be scum than MD even if by a little.

[BuJaber]

I haven't like LUV anyway.
I am even more sure that at least one lurker is scum now after these claims. It explains the weird trajectory of the day. You leave town to their own devices enough and everyone becomes shady.

Icon was widely townread because he is not a danger to scum. Ie he is scum. This is how my brain is solving this little puzzle.

Also because if acryon is indeed town then he can't be completely wrong on everything.

I never actually asked though.. acryon beef and I are you scumreads but do you think we're a team? Because that's crazy how does your brain even rationalize it.

[BuJaber]

I disagree completely with IB's reasoning.

Info is great but it isn't everything. We are primarily concerned with catching scum. And imo icon is more likely to be scum than MD.

Not to mention that yes maybe MD's lynch gives us more info to work with, it isn't impossible to get info from icon's lynch. Scum know alignments. Therefore they sound more sure and their reasoning is generally weaker. Their approach is vague and widens the lynch pool... etc. Etc.

[BuJaber]

btw I'm only keeping my vote on beef for now to see how it reflect on the VC in case acryon is lying.

I fully intend to vote for icon given the gladiator thing.

[BuJaber]

Okay

@Carrot - I want to agree with you when it comes to acryon, MD, and Icon. Because then we just no lynch and move on to D2 and kill acryon or he gets vigshot. But the problem is specifically that Icon was so widely townread. If acryon is indeed scum, and both MD and Icon are town, then why would scum choose to gladiate these 2? It is insanely difficult to lynch icon, and if they wanted to make it easier scum would have slung a little mud. There was no mud slung on icon. Icon has such a clean image this game that scum would have to NK him. By your own admission acryon has scumclaimed by doing this, so realistically they did all that just to lynch Dino at the cost of losing acryon? No. If acryon was doing this just for survival he could have chosen better options to gladiate. Ones that wouldn't be scrutinized as much. Ones that people could quickly lynch without hesitation. If gladiating at that point was a scumclaim either way he would have done it in a way that ensures it actually works.

@Icon - I was hoping you would argue or scumread mastina. That would make it obvious to me you were town because there is no benefit to scum!icon to townread her.

My case on icon is wifomy but I cannot shake it. He is scum this game.

Summary of it:
- Doesn't make sense imo for acryon to gladiate these 2 players if both are indeed town.
- Icon was too widely townread. Such a strong town player would make scum nervous and they would want to reduce his influence over town. There is no evidence of this happening. As such they probably decided only way to get rid of him is through NK. Another reason why point 1 doesn't make much sense.
- Mastina and MD agree that acryon is not compulsive. If scum I think he'd ask the mod if no lynch was possible. If he did know that no lynch is possible why waste his gladiate on 2 people unlikely to get lynched who he in fact did not strongly scumread? (which is what raised questions in the first place). Just seems too haphazardly of scum!acryon to me. I get there was insane pressure on him but a) he would not be heavily bussed by his buddies if they know he has gladiator (as they know his lynch will stop at any time) b) this is a colossal fuckup for scum!acryon and arguably worse than if he just fell over on his sword. Sure they couldn't have predicted what would happen but it has resulted in all 3 of MD, mastina, and Icon to be TR'd. If all 3 are town game over scum just quit.
- Why were a lot of icon's posts comprised of just asking good questions? Because town was doing his job for him. He just needs to encourage more of these TvTs. And when your scumbuddies are lurking you can act 100% town because it doesn't hurt. Scumhunt the fuck out of town. Don't do anything scummy because you don't need to. (This point ties to my earlier point that I wholeheartedly believe that at least one scum has lurked the entire game)

Anyway I'm voting Icon. I hope I'm wrong. It's better for town if I'm wrong. But I think I'm right.

VOTE: icon


As for reading mastina:
-Leaning town, BUT
-If I'm right about icon and acryon she is more likely to be scum (though not definitely, she could just be wrong )

And if Icon flips town then I will townread mastina and MD for the remainder of this game.

[BuJaber]

Your reaction makes no sense as town either.

If I'm scum like you think who cares if I scumread you.

If I'm town let's face it my influence isn't that big my vote on you is not enough pressure for you to give up.

Plus you invited everyone earlier to make a case on you if they think you're scum and when I do you don't like it and just quit? Why challenge us if you won't offer a rebuttal?

[BuJaber]

I expect better than an OMGUS read and a self-vote.

If majority votes no lynch and only 1 or 2 votes are on you it's a no lynch.

You can still do the townie thing if you're town.

[BuJaber]

That was an obvious typo.There is no benefit for scum!you to scumread her since she is TR'ing you.

Look if acryon is scum you'd be town because my case falls apart. I suppose also if kthx, NM, A50, and paradox all flip town then my case falls apart and I'd townread you too as that would mean scum aren't lurking. I'm unable to get a strong read on you for either alignment based on only your posts.

[BuJaber]

@Icon - Nobody cares what acryon says now that he put us in this situation.
However if you're town thanks for using what might be your last few posts to try and get me lynched out of spite.
If you're town and you seriously are scumreading me you are no better than I am.

[BuJaber]

So MD you think D2 lynch should be one of {A50, IB, Kthx, Mom, Paradox}?

Actually I'd like acryon, Icon, and Mastina also to say who they'd lynch day 2. Doesn't look like all 4 are gonna live to see D2.

Obviously any potential flips might change your opinion but I figure this is still helpful.

Frankly though I'm not sure I'd be able to townread Icon anymore unless acryon flips scum or all the lurkers flip town. Because it isn't a good move for scum acryon to gladiate icon and md but it makes even less for scum acryon to gladiate a scum partner.

Like I am not against no lynch here as a policy but the problem is if Icon is scum and we lynch him we don't need to policy vig/lynch acryon. Acryon would be like an Innocent child the rest of the game.

[BuJaber]

Lol whatever I tried.

I'm happy at least that people are paying attention to the lurker bloc.

VOTE: no lynch

Btw what does gamma's post mean? Because I understood it as there has to be a majority voting no lynch AND there has to be at least one vote on MD/Icon for it to be a no lynch. Otherwise it'll be determined randomly.

[BuJaber]

Nvm I read it again. Majority no lynch guarantees no lynch.

[BuJaber]

I don't understand the question MD.

Predictable for whom?

[BuJaber]

UNVOTE:

[BuJaber]

Ehhhhh

Gun to my head I'd say you're less predictable.

Difficult question considering we still have no fucking clue how you, mastina, acryon, and Icon actually fit in this game.

[BuJaber]

Inferno:

I'm totally glad I made this suggestion.
C&S are scum. If we have a Vig or an SK, shoot them tonight. Trust me SK, you want that slot gone.
Acryon is possible scum.
Mathdino is prob town.

Now, I can't really back up these reads right now, because there is so much content to go through, but I will try to do it as soon as possible!

This is gonna be fun.

Scumreading IB again

[BuJaber]

Okay IB I'm gonna explain. Actually it's not really explaining more like just pointing at your posts and raising my eyebrows to the sky.

Inferno:

I'm totally glad I made this suggestion.
C&S are scum. If we have a Vig or an SK, shoot them tonight. Trust me SK, you want that slot gone.
Acryon is possible scum.
Mathdino is prob town.

Now, I can't really back up these reads right now, because there is so much content to go through, but I will try to do it as soon as possible!

So here we have Inferno calling both C&S and Acryon scum. Sure he has that 'possible' modifier when it comes to acryon but still reading them both as scum. So basically he interprets that giant C&S case on why acryon is scum as scum bussing their partner. Which doesn't make sense.

Inferno also in this post APPEALS TO AN SK TO SHOOT A PLAYER HE IS SCUMREADING. Seriously? I have never seen this happen in any game I have ever played and I cannot see a universe in which that would be something a townie comes up with. What is super weird is that everyone who posted after IB ignored this. Why are people not freaking out over that? Am I seriously the only one who considers that weird?

Brafin:

Of course I disagree with my buddy again. I see C&S as town, Acryon as obvScum, and MD as potential scum. Their partner: Either TGP, Beef, or Bujaber, leaning Bu. That neat little gambit that Ico pulled has me thinking he's the scum out of that group.

Publicly announcing disagreement among the hydra heads. That's NAI probably. But then what gambit did ico pull? What group is he in? There seems to be a pattern where IB post stuff without really thinking about what they're saying an example of which we shall also see in the next post.

Inferno:

@BuJaber: Why does this make me scum?

Going to start to explain my reads.
To put it simply, in scum!acyron world, scum!MD just doesn't make sense. Imo, Ico has been townread quite a bit more than MD, so why would scum!acyron put his scumbuddy in this position? I just don't see that happening.
This is not to say that acryon is town. I am having a very hard time justifying town!acryon right now. But scum!MD doesn't make sense in a scum!acryon world.
This combined with what I'm getting from MD's responses, makes me think that there is a fair possibility that he is town.

Acryon's play just does not seem to come from town. It could be possible, but I sincerly doubt it. I'm giving the benefit of doubt right now becasue of C&S, because i can't see them as partners.

But C&S is defintely scum. Here's the first things I notice about the ISO:
C&S gives us a readlist, but there's no specifications on where anyone stands on it. It's all very general.
They take out MD's towncred without actually attacking the reads themselves, hiding behind a "long term interactions" wall.
Here's something interesting: The order of the posts is making me heavily think that this is a case of AbN (Assumption Before Narrative). They form a read and say very little about how they get to those reads, and then begin to force the reads. Seems... informed.
A lot of what C&S walls wit halso seems rather piddly.
Post #547: Is there not such a thing as idiotic scum? Now granted, I don't think my play was that bad, but I know that such a thing exists.
C&S's responses to Ico consistently seem to come from buddying. I don't like that.
This gunsmith guilty thing is really pinging me. Because what kind of setup would have that as a day ability? And we haven't had a N0. So this softclaim seems very weak.
In #866, C&S says he's scumreading Ico. But in post #790, the slot claims that Ico is one of it's strongest townreads? Where did this changes so fast?
And yet he's all for protecting Ico?

One thing is for sure, and that is that C&S+Dino is not a thing, nor will ever be a thing this game.

p-edit: Here's a thought: could Ico+Acryon be a thing?

So here Inferno is implying he thinks acryon is town because c&s has to be scum. That would be fine if inferno didn't scumread acryon too in the post quoted above. He keeps saying he can't see acryon as scum then considers scenarios in which he is, like he does here again in the pedit.

Have you even read c&s's posts? Mastina is pretty much concluding that she now has a solid townread on MD. So 1) how is she taking out MD's towncred? 2) why can't they be buddies if she's TR'ing him?

Brafin:

@Math No, It's not C&S, Acyron, and you, in my opinion. It's Acryon, BU, and you. And Almost50 makes a good point in the next post; if Acryon is scum, you are most likely town. The chances of anyone bussing like that are slim.

That being said, anyone who tried to force a Ico lynch is reading scummy to me. With two reads that were unlikely to be lynched, anyone who does a complete 180 after there is no-lynch possibility is probably not playing in town interest. That includes TGP, who wasn't even reading Ico, and Bu, who not only does a complete 180, but then tries to quick-end d1 with an L-1 no-lynch when he realizes he's not going to get away with it. Super scum-indicative play, imo.

P-edit: which means at this point, we have several pretty much confirmed town and one confirmed scum. That's awsome.

Brafin is townreading MD but putting him in his scumlist with me???? Not only that but he says acryon is scum which means MD must be town but he puts them down as scumbuddies together???,



The IB heads continuously post things that are inconsistent, strange, and aggressively attack players for the wrong reasons.

For example you are considering the possibility that Ico is scum and are saying he pulled a gambit and then attack me for wanting to lynch him?

Also it is quite clear it wasn't a 180 on my read on him. The situation we are facing has forced to look at the game differently and I scumread icon based on other people's play.

@NM - I am inclined to agree that acryon is town I think I made that very clear. But spell it out for us we're dumb. Also a lot of people are scumreading him and even I think he could be scum. His play simply doesn't make sense as either alignment. So whatever you have that helps get a read on acryon will be helpful.


Pedit - okay mastina assuming acryon didn't know no lynch is possible then I guess it does make sense for him to gladiate these 2. If he did know though I'm not sure he'd still do it this way.

[BuJaber]

Entertain this though.

Icon claims himself that he has an unimportant role. Can't we afford to lynch him for the confirmation that acryon is scum?

Because if acryon is town we are losing a golden opportunity to have an IC and save any vig shots we may habe for a later target. AND use our D2 lynch on someone else.

I don't deny that it would be somewhat risky and playing into scum acryon's plans but what we gain from a potential scum flip on icon is much more than what we lose from an icon town flip imo. Are you really that confident in your acryon read?

[BuJaber]

If A50 is down to vote NL we do have the votes.

[BuJaber]

Okay nobody end the day until icon and MD say. I think it's fitting the 2 gladiators have the final say. But also wait until people catch up to and comment on the last 2 pages.

[BuJaber]

Actually I'd like acryon, Icon, and Mastina also to say who they'd lynch day 2. Doesn't look like all 4 are gonna live to see D2.

Surprising that you need to ask. acryon if he lives to see D2, Momra otherwise.

Unless about needing to ask more about needing it to be public for NK analysis.

[BuJaber]

Less*

[BuJaber]

The thing with mastina's case on acryon is it at least does have a full explanation on why the lynch went the way it did, why the gladiate was used in such a way, why the 2 targets were chosen. It also shows a scum doing the best possible thing he could for his team given the situation. I'm glad you explained it. It doesn't change the situation much no lynch was gonna happen but I feel better about it.

The only plausible explanation of why town!acryon did it is that he got frustrated, impulsively used his ability, chose icon because of a weakish suspicion and chose MD for spite/revenge/OMGUS.

[BuJaber]

(The 2nd explanation being much less likely than the first)

[BuJaber]

I hope it's some sort of post restriction because otherwise he is voluntarily torturing us.

And lol at post 1001.. what a classy move by beefster :S

[BuJaber]

Aight paradox.

Thrilling stuff.

Though what you're saying doesn't match with what MD is saying.

[BuJaber]

Okay

@NM - how do you know acryon is town? Since it's a complete war right now I don't think it's time to hide this. I am leaning towards lynching acryon first and if he flips town I will then sheep you on subsequent days. If you can make this decision easier that'd be appreciated.

@Mom - I can't speak for anyone else but I'm pretty bad with abbreviations and I tried to look for some on wiki but didn't find answers so please for my benefit can you not use them or tell me what they mean whenever you use them for the first time. For now what is OV? What is WK?

@TW - does later mean today or on later days? Because if you have any info that tells us carrot's alignment it would be really helpful.

@kthx - I did something but my role is useless except that I can confirm one specific very conditional night action claim. Nobody has claimed such a claim.

Acryon is the only lynch that makes sense to me. Lynching carrot only has positive consequences for town if she flips scum. If she flips town it doesn't automatically mean the 3 people she is scumreading are scum. Also right now it seems like a case of she said - she said.

Compare that with acryon lynch - if he flips town I would townread the fuck out of NM. If he flips town carrot is lynched next for sure. If he flips town I'm sure we can go back and find a lot of posts indicating people knew this would happen.
If he flips scum we pretty much have found the entire scunteam. As in this gambit by A50 and mom becomes clear as day.

Those are the objective reasons for lynching acryon over mastina.

Now for the subjective:
-For mastina to be town she would have had to plan that whole episode she did in town 1. That would suggest to me that she wouldn't be flailing now. When you have planned out exactly how you will get townread to that level of detail you don't just suddenly flail and make mistakes and say inconsistent things (do you have a protective or an investigative? Because you said investigative at some point I'm pretty sure). We ALL KNOW FOR A FACT that no lynch was the worst option for scum. She really doesn't need to be so aggressively scumreading acryon and pushing for no lynch just to be townread (WHILE GAMBLING ON THE FACT THAT TOWN WOULD NOT INVESTIGATE HER IN A ROLE MADNESS GAME). There is no version of this game where mastina is scum and I am willing to not only lose the game defending her but I am willing to quit mafia scum for a whole year if she is scum. It would mean I don't know how to play.

Mastina - Strong as fuck townread right now
Beef - strongish townread
MD - nothing changed since Day 1. Townread

Kthx, TW - townlean
NM - scumlean


Acryon - scum

Mom, A50 - strongish scumread



NM's answer to my question above MIGHT change things but I highly doubt it. Anyone not voting for acryon is scum.

VOTE: acryon

Good luck town. Scum would not have exposed themsleves if they aren't confident they can win. So town have to fight tooth and nail to win.



In my mind I can't understand anything that scum is doing this game. Regardless of who they are they are playing so out in the open JUST to be scumread? Like the only thing I can think of is too scummy to be scum as the defence. (This applies to anyone that flips scum between A50, mom, NM, Math, Mastina).

Seriously Mastina don't be scum. I would hate to quit this game. But fuck it if after several years of playing I can't make basic mafia analysis I don't deserve to play. I mean it I'll quit if you flip scum.

[BuJaber]

I forgot IB. Honestly I can't read that hydra so nullread with a slight townlean by PoE.

[BuJaber]

My last question should read "JUST to be townread"

[BuJaber]

I can't say until after he flips

Also pls don't quit

I really want to believe you. Like for some reason for the first time ever I actually have a gut read on you but the facts are contradicting it. My scumlean isn't based on your posts; it's based only on the fact that I can't believe acryon is town anymore.

[BuJaber]

Anyway easy solution.. vote acryon.

[BuJaber]

I previously explained my thoughts on lurkers this game.

So by PoE:
Kthx - townlean after they started posting
NM - I'm having an inner conflict with could be anything
Paradox was a lurker who flipped town.
LUV was a lurker who when he posted pinged me for a reason I can't explain. Just didn't feel right about him. So that slot for me is almost guaranteed scum.


Pedit - well obviously I disagree about reasons to scumread mastina (except if she did lie about the JOAT) but yeah that bit about her pushing people to claim is bs. The part he bolded from her quote does not read like a push and even if it did it's a very weak push .. no where near to "pressuring"

[BuJaber]

Fair enough

Okay if you targeted one of:
-A50
-NM
-Math
-Beef

Do you mind sharing the result?
(You already said you didn't target Mom)

[BuJaber]

How do you townread both acryon and mastina though? Mind explaining it to me?

[BuJaber]

Above is @Dino

[BuJaber]

Ico.. seriously?
Doesn't matter you're either scum or town who made a mistake. Not interested in your rationale now that it's done. It's just a sucky situation
Sigh.



@Dino - fine whatever but I prefer acryon over A50 and if you feel like spamming it up I'd want to know the answer after the game.

[BuJaber]

Actually why A50 over Mom.

From your perspective if acryon is not a lynch option and mastina is town shouldn't you be voting for mom?

[BuJaber]

@TW

In your poisition I would not have targeted Icon. So imo it was a bad choice.
If you are town you explaining your rationale doesn't really help us figure out the game and you can't undo it so it's unimportant as me agreeing or me convincing you it was a mistake doesn't change anything.
If you are scum you are lying so I don't care about any rationale you may have.

[BuJaber]

I might be missing something obvious but why can't beef/mom be a team?

Same with Beef/mastina?

Just trying to follow your logic. Bounce ideas of one another.

Also can you answer my question why A50 over mom?

If you think both mastina and acryon are town, then you believe mastina. Therefore Mom has to be lying. She says her case is not just based on mastina denying receiving anything but her actions contradict that. She went right to voting for mastina and aggressively pushing for her lynch when mastina outright denied receiving anything.

[BuJaber]

If Beef is telling the truth he can't confirm that Mom is not scum. Not sure why he thinks he can. If mom is lying then his jailkeeping is irrelevant.

[BuJaber]

Math are you scum?

[BuJaber]

Why would she get confirmation that she successfully sent a message?

Wouldn't a jailkept target means her message fails to send?

[BuJaber]

Math are you scum?

Btw my policy still applies. If we both are alive at lylo you are auto lynch.


-pedit : hang on let me find the quote

[BuJaber]

I am a messenger and I can send messages to up to three people. Last night I sent a message to Mastina stating that I was town.

Mod confirmed target and that the message was Ok.

[BuJaber]

Fuck it I'll ask the only person I truly can trust.

@mod - if a messenger sends a message to someone that was jailkept, would said messenger be told by you that the message was delivered?

[BuJaber]

Okay MD have you noticed anything about beef this game?

[BuJaber]

Yes good quote. One that represents how beef has played this entire game.

Honestly I know I just said it a page or so ago but I forgot why I townread him. He has been fence sitty about everyone and everything. Do you sense that too or just me?

[BuJaber]

I will only be able to figure out this game if I can absolutely definitively know acryon's alignment.
But for the time being I believe kthx role claim with 98% confidence; therefore A50 has to be lying.

NM sheep me please you asked for faith on acryon I am asking you to return the favor.

Town: vote for A50. Acryon the only reason I am not voting you today is kthx / A50 have just made it a 1v1 that has to be resolved. Help me townread you. Sheep me.

VOTE: A50

Don't know exactly who all the scum are.. but scum knew how this day was going down. People started claiming, scum participated with fake claims to continue the trend and it became a claimfest. This means they are probably banking on us mislynching today and if we do they are confident they can win since they outed all PR's. It's not a game of deception anymore, it is literally about who is stronger.


I will respond to A50's questions if he flips town. Don't see any reason to explain my associative reads to scum.

[BuJaber]

Especially

if a lynch on A50 were to go through, if he flips town we end up in a situation where Kthxbye's claim was vague enough that it could easily be construed as a misunderstanding.

Being explicit is super important here.

It's not. There's enough here to figure out the game. One of kthx and A50 is scum. It is waaaaaay more likely to be A50. Vote there and we move on from there. A50 and mom decided to be roped together so she'll be next if A50 flips scum. Not my decision. Literally theirs.

[BuJaber]

kthnxbye's claim isn't even consistent in itself

"Almost was lying when he said he took no action, therefore he must have done the NK, a night action."

Hmm? I feel really dumb..How is that inconsistent?

[BuJaber]

Scum NM has no reason to townread acryon unless acryon is also scum.

Okay I change my mind.. we need full claims from both kthx and A50 please. Let's go.

[BuJaber]

Okay I get it but how can you call it inconsistent if you don't know his full role? I don't want to go research every investigative role out there but what if he can differentiate between an action and a scum NK?

Like his claim is totally out of the blue and unnecessary as scum. If he wants a townie to die why go after A50 specifically without even trying to build a wagon and consolidate scumreads

[BuJaber]

I keep forgetting we still have ten people alive. I keep thinking it's almost MYLO.

Okay slow down everyone we have time.


Can you unvote please? Kthx and A50 aren't getting away with no full claims anymore. Can we not have a quicklynch here? I have hopes of cracking the entire scumteam either today or day 3.

[BuJaber]

Eleven*

[BuJaber]

Okay I get it but how can you call it inconsistent if you don't know his full role? I don't want to go research every investigative role out there but what if he can differentiate between an action and a scum NK?

Like his claim is totally out of the blue and unnecessary as scum. If he wants a townie to die why go after A50 specifically without even trying to build a wagon and consolidate scumreads

Him and mastin (his scum buddy) were the main counter wagons to acryon today, whose mislynch wasn't going through as easily as they thought, he tries to push through acryon anyway, doesn't work, so he gets desperate and throws out something at the other viable mislynch, A50

Okay unrelated - do you have a reasoning for why town!acryon would gladiate icon and MD or are you townreading purely because of your role?

[BuJaber]

This day doesn't end before:

A50 claims fully
Kthx claims fully
The worst comments on them


-pedit
noted MD
noted NM though that leaves me exactly where I was before asking :/

[BuJaber]

Add mastina to the list since she claimed to have a roleblock. Don't remember that she said she used it so let's see what she says about kthx.

[BuJaber]

Again.. unvote please

IB is unpredictable even if he's town.. don't you dare let this get lynched early.

[BuJaber]

Nobody is suggesting no lynch we're picking one of them

[BuJaber]

What's with the doomsaying NM.. 12 days left to reach a majority. You are not helping your case at all.

[BuJaber]

Kthx's pov is clear.

A50 full claim.

[BuJaber]

Kthx isn't though

I mean yes he could be lying. But his explanation has no inconsistency. He got no result. A50 claims he did something. Therefore he must be lying.

Him jumping to NK explanation was obviously flawed but him concluding A50 is scum makes sense.



-pedit.. we should have policy lynched IB when we had the chance :/ wtf IB

[BuJaber]

Wait for the 3 others to post. We will get to the truth.

[BuJaber]

So TW you believe A50 over kthx?

Where did A50 go?

[BuJaber]

Okay regardless of who is lying.. consider this


If kthx flips scum - does that townclear A50? (No)
If kthx flips town - does that confirm A50 scum (yes barring kthx did't get blocked)

If A50 flips scum - does that townclear kthx? (Yes)
If A50 flips town - does that cofirm kthx scum? (Barring kthx didn't get blocked)

A50 lynch objectively better

[BuJaber]

I can't decide who's lying here. So if you show me how kthx is an objectively better lynch i'll switch my vote.

Pedit - yes acryon why not? If it is truly 1v1 and we have no other reasons to stringly townread or scumread one of them then that is always the better option

[BuJaber]

This is all me choosing to ignore the reluctance from A50 and NM to fully explain themselves and/or at least unvote and the fact that NM seems to think it's all over.

Because that would grossly tip the scales in kthx favor but I am ignoring all of that for now


Maaaaaath. Give me credit. I am never hammering until I get everyone to respond

[BuJaber]

@acryon before the claim I was scumreading A50 harder than kthx. Kthx was null or a townlean by PoE. You yourself quoted my readlist didn't you? You knew this.

So yeah I am biased so objectively is more fair it allows me to artificially remove confirmation bias. Because you can all correct me if my objective reasoning is wrong.

-pedit are we talking about the winter wonderland I was in? Don't remember acryon in that

[BuJaber]

Math Buj and A50

How likely do you think Acryon is to be town here?

Not likely imo

So basically it's not a gladiate (guaranteed TvS between A50 and kthx) anymore...


Ehhh

Math & TW -

Does this post

Leaving a parallel flavour claim to a townie as a safe claim really isn't the herculean task of modding you're making it out to be, you can easily the role with yourself

@mod Are scum given fakeclaims, safe flavour claims, both or neither?

Scum are given fakeclaims with flavor.

Fuck it I'll ask the only person I truly can trust.

@mod - if a messenger sends a message to someone that was jailkept, would said messenger be told by you that the message was delivered?

Jailkeeper does not rolestop actions, so the message would be delivered. Messenger is not informed if a message is delivered successfully.

Mean mastina is definitely lying?


Also mod confirmed scum have fake claims.. no wonder they all sound believable.

-pedit not yet hang on we may end up with someone who's practically conftown

[BuJaber]

@Buj no only that if MASTINA had been jail kept she wouldn't have received the message. Since it was actually Mom who was jail kept it checks out that Mastina didn't receive the message I think

Oh shit I asked the wrong question then.

What the hell

@mod - sorry ... if a jailkept messenger sends a message would their target receive it?

[BuJaber]

but gamma didn't write blurbs for our role PMs lol

Can anyone else confirm this?

[BuJaber]

Acryon can you explain why kthx is scum here in as much detail as possible please?

I have a reason for wanting it reiterated.

[BuJaber]

WAIT I FUCKED UP LOL

gamma did in fact write a blurb for my role PM

it's just vague and doesn't really answer any questions about the role within the PM itself

Lol .. man do you know how difficult it is for me to scumread you? I wanted to catch you in the lie but I still can't because of all the shit you did all game.

I really wish your read on acryon would align with mine it'd make me very confident in it.


- pedit acryon so you think he is lying about his claim?

[BuJaber]

A50 read post before yours

[BuJaber]

Acryon I asked you because I find it weird that a townie would be unwilling to give some the benefit of the doubt that they messed up their role when you yourself was given the benefit of the doubt that you messed up your role.

A50

Something to ponder on:

Spoiler:

We are 8 vs 3 now.
mislynch + NK = 6 vs 3
scum lynch + NK = 5 vs 2
mislynch + NK = 3 vs 2
And we know there is no Vig, so I would definitely fake a guilty on someone of I was Mafia here in this situation. A 1 for 1 isn't such a bad gamble for Scum right now, especially with the town so divided.

^That's the motive^

HOWEVER, let's consider Kthxbye is town who misunderstood his result and scum are taking advantage of it. It would be even more plausible for them to push BOTH wagons (i.e. split themselves between them) so as to get one lynched and be semi-guaranteed the other will follow.

In this case we are 8 vs 3
mislynch + NK = 6 vs 3
mislynch + NK = 4 vs 3
So that is LyLo already.

UNVOTE:

Who would be scum in this you and kthx are both town scenario?

[BuJaber]

MD please don't answer questions I address to others.

If I wanted you I'd have asked. I'm very open about getting opinions from my townreads.

[BuJaber]

kk
a50's likely going to answer me so it's not like he can really sheep me on that
my reads work from my POV

hey can you hit me up with a scumgame or two

Bear in mind I haven't played that many games yet on here.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=73845

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=74725

Not sure how helpful they'll be. First is my first game and a newbie game and I replaced in to find my partner widely scumread.

2nd is not even close to normal setup wise. Literally got killed by my own scumpartner for his personal wincon. Turncoat something role.

[BuJaber]

First game here .. not first game ever

[BuJaber]

Oh wait I have a recently finished mafia game. Hang on

[BuJaber]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=74864

[BuJaber]

Mastina - you used up your rolecop yes? Remind me what happened?

[BuJaber]

I was gonna attemor to discredit A50 all by myself thanks kthx.. but anyway no need


Mastina use your role cop on kthx please.

Let's lynch acryon. I don't even care if he's scum anymore I really need to know so I can read the remaining players.

Or alternatively:
Acryon could you vote for A50 please? If he's town I'll sheep you rest of the game what do you say?

[BuJaber]

Who would be scum in this you and kthx are both town scenario?

Theoretically the lynch pool would include most anyone else, but I always assume 1 scum on each wagon and the 3rd off it.

So, 1 scum in Beefster/acryon/Momrangal/N_M
Another in You/Mathdino
And a Third is Mastina/TW/IB

Trying to to refine it I probably get one in Beefster/acryon/N_M (I dunno which, but mom is clear IMHO), another in BuJ/Dino (I'm undecided) and the third is Mastina (I can't see TW/IB as Scum in any world)

This is rediculous. There is no way MD is town. I know I'm town and I think everyone else also thinks I'm town by now so this literally can't be true. One scum HAS to be between you and kthx. Also why are you so confident mom is town?

@mom - why are you so confident A50 is town?

My problem now is do I believe you're a commuter and we have 3 other roles that protect/mess with scums NK or do I think the claim is way to convenient and you simply didn't act last night as a scum PR. The only way the latter makes much sense is if you are a 1-shot.

Another thing I'm considering is how long it took you to claim. Was it truly because you were trying to mess with scum night actions or was it because it took you a minute to find a better fake claim than the one provided by the MOD?

A 1-shot what exactly??

Also -and this is more important- I've been trying high and low, left and right to convince you that I was telling the truth and your result is still accurate. You haven't been cooperative at all. First you didn't want to claim the exact result, forcing me to make you. Second, you wouldn't get a hint (and I believe my hints were strong enough I suspect Scum already worked things out anyway).

Basically, if I was a Scum PR "who didn't act" why the hell would I tell you that I DID?? Like, you first assumed I did the NK although that IS an action, and now you tell me I'm scum who didn't act??

Town reactions:
-accusing kthx until one of you dies in game or in real life not backing up at all
-since you know a commuter might mess with his result you would consider his towniness from the beginning


A50 and NM went after carrot, went after kthx, didn't get the votes they needed so now they're changing their narrative and tone.


A50 and NM are so reluctant to disclose information that they claim makes them sure about someone's alignment. There is no open and shut case based on posts in thread that they can make to back their claims (NM claims acryon town, A50 claims kthx scum, carrot scum, mom town) and they just want us to trust them.


This is bs and if you really cared about town not mislynching you'd try to convince people better. You can either care about winning so you put the effort in or you don't care about winning and not put the effort in. In the 2nd scenario you would not make a big deal about how town are idiots for potentially lynching you. You can't have it both ways. If you're town take fucking responsibility for causing this game state.

A50 and NM are DEFINITELY SCUM making ACRYON SCUM by association.


I am never lynching anyone else unless one of them flips town.

That is not to mention that there is no town motivation for acryon's play, A50's play, NM's play.

That is not to mention there is no scum motivation for kthx's play.

That is not to mention how unlikely it is that mastina would be scum and act the way she did. Because the narrative in which she would be scum would be if she wanted icon/MD mislynch. If she wanted to buddy town. If she wanted to discredit mom.
While she would have motivation to do those things her actions cannot reasonably be said to help achieve this. The only one she appears to be buddying would be me.

That is not to mention that SCUM HAVE FAKECLAIMS. THEY CAN PLAN EXACTLY HOW THEY WOULD USE SUCH A CLAIM SO IT MAKES SENSE. That is why everyone could be telling the truth when claiming but they could also be lying. It's either this or that. We are wasting time considering things like well what if both are not lying. In a game like this the easiest explanation for a 1v1 is that one of them is lying that is it. No more no less.

EVEN IF YOU'RE READS DON'T MATCH WITH MINE. There are too many associatives linked with an A50 flip or an acryon flip. EVEN IF ONE OF THEM IS TOWN. We really need to see them flip. Considering anyone else is suboptimal.


Also give the mod some credit that he gave scum fake claims that actually make sense with the actual town power roles. Why are people not understanding this part? Just because it makes sense doesn't mean it's true.

Finally UNLESS THE MOD SPECIFICALLY TROLLED ME. my role implies that there is some sort of tracking ability in the game. Since only kthx has claimed something like this he has to be telling the truth. If there is no tracking ability then I am literally a VT. That's all I'm willing to say.

[BuJaber]

No worries A50 if you flip town I'll vote for mastina and then go quit like I promised when she flip scum.

That's not likely going to happen though.

[BuJaber]

Though in actual fact kthx would look the worst so he'd be first to get lynched after you flip town. I don't give benefit of the doubt to shit like this 1v1. One of you flipping town confscums the other.

[BuJaber]

I think he's scum but no. He is the last scum I want to lynch. If A50 and acryon are both town (again, I don't actually believe this is likely), that clears NM imo.

I am only voting for a50 or acryon. And I'd much rather it was A50 because A50 v Kthx is definitely TvS.

[BuJaber]

The worst.. sorry friend

[BuJaber]

Fuck all of the entire mastina vs A50. Both of them are blatantly manipulative. I'm pretending they don't exist for the rest of the phase.

I'm fine with that.

MD - I guess if there's no other wagon we all will agree on than NM it is. I just feel that's the one that gives the least info. And while I can't claim I know how NM plays he is still the one that I think could get cleared by others flipping. The other scumreads are only cleared if they themselves flip. (Well if kthx flips scum then yes A50 is town but I don't think kthx is scum for other reasons and I'm not lynching what is now a townread for me).

[BuJaber]

Kthx so we're assuming no result definitely does not mean no action performed; what made you reach that conclusion in the end?

Did someone actually pm the mod with questions to verify?

[BuJaber]

So either Math is lying or scum have strongman. (Strongman it is).

Either Mom is lying or mastina is lying (jailkeeper does not rolestop actions as mod has said).

Either kthx is lying or A50 is lying or A50 is ninja+strongman or A50 is ascetic or both town. Not a whole lot of help there. Just if kthx is scum his play was really weird. I mean it would indicate a kthx/NM/acryon team maybe. Or kthx/mastina/NM. Or Kthx/mastina/beef? Whatever don't need to figure that out now.

NM's result doesn't clear acryon. If acryon is scum no way he'd have gladiator and strongman. If we believe NM acryon is town because of the info he doesn't want to reveal not because of the result. So they're both either scum or town independently. But fwiw I actually believe NM here I just think he's wrong about acryon.

If NM is scum A50 makes sense as scum, mom, IB, heck even mastina.

We are assuming beef is town though there is nothing to suggest it honestly. Let's not forget him.

I think we have to lynch A50 or mom.

Mastina being a liar is so unlikely. Let's just find out now fuck it I want that shit put to bed.

We have to lynch mom. Mom you flipping town single-handedly ensures a mastina lynch. Gotta take what you can get. Self vote please we don't need to stretch this out anymore. You might say well why not lynch mastina and if the answer is not obvious is that me and MD both think her being scum is quite far fetched so by default you're more expendable.

3rd scum could be a lot of people so let's just find scum first and then we can think about the entire scumteam.

Mom is the lynch everyone.
MD check my work

VOTE: Mom

[BuJaber]

(Since acryon can't be gladiator + strongman him not doing anything just means someone else performed kill.. doesn't clear him)

[BuJaber]

I mean mod answered it in a pretty vague and general way but Fine we got time here's your only lifeline. (Assuminy beef is not lying - don't forget you flipping scum could implicate him too)

@mod - if a messenger is jailed will their message be received by their target?

[BuJaber]

Inb4 mod refuses to answer and we are left there laughing helplessly at our situation.

[BuJaber]

Please answer gamma <3

[BuJaber]

Okay so are you saying my question to gamma is unnecessary?

Fine I'm willing to assume kthx is town based on that 67% chance. (Ignoring Kthx and A50 scumteam because lol)

Unless one of kthx/NM flips scum I won't bother explaining why they could be a team now. I'd rather keep it to myself just in case.


Anyway I'm wrong on a few points and me telling mom to self vote was just tongue in cheek. But my conclusion is still correct A50/mom is the lynch.

I do want to point out that a person telling the truth about their role could still be lying about their alignment I may have overlapped some stuff there. Also don't forget what fakeclaims mean for the game. There is no way all the roles claimed are real claims. We can't make decisions on all of them being true because they aren't. What we can do is make decisions on things that work whether or not someone's role is fake or not.

[BuJaber]

Can anyone definitely say Mom/IB/Beef cannot be a scumteam?

Just want that out there because my first instincts tend to be pretty good and those 3 are are 3 out of my 4 first votes this game.

[BuJaber]

Oh you jusy cleared mom in your mind.. hmmm

[BuJaber]

To be fair if she had messenger as a fakeclaim not a difficult thing to say as scum. She'd have come up with a reasonable story.

[BuJaber]

To be fair if she had messenger as a fakeclaim not a difficult thing to say as scum. She'd have come up with a reasonable story.

Ref. To post 1076

[BuJaber]

Can anyone definitely say Mom/IB/Beef cannot be a scumteam?

Just want that out there because my first instincts tend to be pretty good and those 3 are are 3 out of my 4 first votes this game.

At the very least I would be shocked to my core if none of those are scum.

[BuJaber]

Well I still want a definitive answer on jailkeeper and messenger interaction but okay.

VOTE: A50

[BuJaber]

ANYWAY

Me and Mara are not synching Thus she must be scum (we never sync)
Mara is not working with me she must be scum
Maras plan with her role is more convenient as scum and she would never do that as town and thus is scum

So you're saying we had a town backup JOAT who was backing up a scum JOAT?

Is this even a thing that has ever happened?

This reminds me... That post of mom's is confusing as hell.
Mom is making fun of mastina's case on mom here right? Because otherwise who is mara?

I know I probably should have asked before but it wasn't gonna change my lynch pool of 2.

-pedit I'll think about it and answer separately

[BuJaber]

I think we should say which plan we like without saying why.

I like the alternate plan.

[BuJaber]

But holsters means no action right? I disagree with that
why waste an action?

[BuJaber]

She should send a message to kthxbye

[BuJaber]

@Bujaber: The point is that Marangal wouldn't fakeclaim her role; she's town messenger or scum messenger. By motion detecting her, we can basically stop her from performing the nightkill (or get caught by Not_Mafia).

Fine. I'm good with that.

[BuJaber]

Not_Mafia can potentially detect scum performing the nightkill, as long as we ensure that scum doesn't go and perform a night action on her instead.

@Bujaber: The point is that Marangal wouldn't fakeclaim her role; she's town messenger or scum messenger. By motion detecting her, we can basically stop her from performing the nightkill (or get caught by Not_Mafia).

But if we set up who N_M is going to detect, doesn't that person just make sure they aren't the one submitting the kill?

All his scumreads are blocked.

[BuJaber]

Yeah actually why check me?

How does definitively prove I'm town help anyone?

[BuJaber]

May I suggest you read everything, making notes along the way if you want to remember, and then organizing your thoughts and then posting?

I'm not trying to be rude but this post makes it sound like you haven't read the recent pages.

[BuJaber]

Either Mom is lying or mastina is lying (jailkeeper does not rolestop actions as mod has said).

No. I JK'd Mom, not mastina. That roleblocks her.

Yes sir. I realized that soon after that post. I asked the mod the wrong question so I asked the right question again more recently.

Mechanically, it is possible both mom and mastina are telling the truth assuming you are also telling the truth.

[BuJaber]

Sorry to disagree with IB and MD but I just think Beef is scum.

Meaning one of Mom/Mastina is scum.
To clarify: the interaction between beef/mom/mastina is only confirmed if all 3 are telling the truth. If one of them is proven to have lied (by a flip) then the whole thing breaks apart.

3rd probably Acryon or A50.

I also think it's possible NM is scum and acryon is town or the other way around. I know NM claims it isn't possible but I'm not convinced. He could have made an assumption that is not correct.

It is also possible A50 is town and acryon is the last scum obviously.

Anyway those are my thoughts but basically yes IB use your ability. It proves you're town at the very least and guarantees no night kill. With 2 flips we should know exactly who scum are this game.

I don't think we need to talk about it that much.

And yes IB I never believed that gladiate was town-motivated. I dropped it because of MD and NM. But saying mastina would push for acryon and no lynch that hard just to distance herself from acryon seems far fetched. You could call mastina scum for a lot of things but this plan you described in particular would require a 3 person scumteam that is diabolical beyond anything I've ever even imagined let alone seen before.

[BuJaber]

Also there's no day chat as confirmed by OP so if you're right about acryon/c&S team it means they planned all of it at .. pre game setup? We're in day 2 right? Yeah acryon wagon was day 1.

[BuJaber]

Should we read into the fact that mastina is not posting here and the other head of the hydra hasn't shown up at all?

I would really hate to find out C&S is scum; just seems so wrong to me and even now I'm still townreading her pretty strongly here but I don't know anymore.

[BuJaber]

1. We don't need NM's vote; I'm fine with him just following the plan.

2. Acryon's plan is terrible. There is no way we are risking an ability as strong as IB's. Don't care how much protection we plan. Some people are lying about their roles I am not willing to find out who by seeing IB NK'd. PLUS HE CONFIRMS HIMSELF AS TOWN ALSO WITHOUT THE NEED TO GO TO THE NIGHT. That means next time we plan the night actions after the 2 flips we have even more information to plan the perfect night plan.

3. My lynch pool is {acryon/A50/Beef} - will wagon and hammer any of them.

Will be voting after we confirm double day is active.. or is it done during twilight?

[BuJaber]

Acryon fuck trying to convince you it's mechanically right based on claimed PR's.


Let's lay it down simply:

The worst case scenario for us using the double day is, as you've put it, 2 mislynches followed by lylo, right?

Okay so lylo means lynch scum or lose. And any subsequent day after that will still just be lylo.

Basically it comes down to this: if we flip two scumreada and they are both town and we can't figure out who scum is between the remaining players especially considering our PR claims, we don't deserve to win and it doesn't matter because we just aren't winning. In a world where we fuck up that badly it really doesn't matter when we use the double day vote.

Actually I'm so confident right now that pretty much the only way we lose this game is if math is scum. And like I threatened him multiple times I'm policy-lynching him at lylo if I'm alive by then. So even that scenario town wins.

ALL OF THIS IS ASSUMING WE MISLYNCH TWICE IN A ROW which is by itself probably unlikely.

[BuJaber]

Unless NM specifically received a PM from the mod saying acryon is town I don't understand anymore his refusal to vote for him.

[BuJaber]

Icon was exhibiting textbook scum play to me, and you were believing and following lines that made no sense for town!MD to follow IMO.

Wait a tick. I'm on phone so I can't track this down easily, but didn't ypu say you were town reading at least one of them when trying to explain your gladiate?

Anyone?

Yes I'm pretty sure he said he scumreads Icon.

No he didn't explain this part exactly like this but from what I understand and recall his plan to get enough votes on Icon was to pit him against a widely townread player. And I guess in his mind if math got lynched then we as town at least confirm MD's alignment for sure (at the time mastina was flip flopping so it would have shut up everyone arguing about MD).



-pedit: lol acryon .. the part you quoted doesn't support your case. It's proof against it. We win even in the worst case scenario is what I'm saying. There is literally no downside.

[BuJaber]

Actually I'm so confident right now that pretty much the only way we lose this game is if math is scum. And like I threatened him multiple times I'm policy-lynching him at lylo if I'm alive by then. So even that scenario town wins.

i just want you to know that i would never have taken this deal if i wasn't literally trying to die every night
also remember that mastina probably rolecopped me and confirmed me as BG; scum bodyguard with 0 town killing roles is just negative scum utility

also i'm still pretty sure that N_M is convinced acryon is town based on flavour

I know mate. I have other reasons for making this deal that don't just involve you agreeing to it and us being able to trust one another. Though of course that part did help me trust you when I wasn't 100% sure you're town.

[BuJaber]

Btw BuJaber do you think your claim will add anything to the discussion
My understanding is you've basically claimed vt-esque role like compulsive visitor

A full claim doesn't help town. Assume I'm VT.

Yes, scum are going to kill the person that is most likely getting lynched at some point this game.

Sensible, sensible.

FFS, when Mastina flips Scum I'm NEVER getting lynched. Only if she flips green should I be lynched, and that is where IB's role both gets proven and is put to use optimally. Scum!tina pretty much clears both myself and Beefster indefinitely.

Did I forget a significant portion of the game? Because I don't see how those flips clear you.



NM, TW, MOM, IB, BEEF, MASTINA:

Are you willing to lynch A50?
If no, who needs to flip town before you can vote for them?
Are you willing to lynch acryon?
If no, who needs to flip town before you can vote for them?

pedit: Heh .. acryon could be distancing.
Yeah I'm going with acryon/beef/A50 or acryon/NM/A50

[BuJaber]

MD is 120% town. Acryon is 120% scum.

[BuJaber]

MD is 120% town. Acryon is 120% scum.

Buj 240% should quit playing Mafia. *Nod*

Well if you are right about mastina I will I already said I would quit for at least a year if she flips scum.


Acryon think A50 lynch gives us no information. Are you even reading this game?

If we wany informative he literally might be the most informative lynch. HALF the players scumread him strongly. HALF the players townread him strongly.

[BuJaber]

I'm sorry I missed all the fun. Would have loved to triple vote acryon.

I think A50 should be given the chance to do the noble thing and self-hammer. The cat's out the bag.

Thank you all for not listening.

TW - check mom please

[BuJaber]

VOTE: A50

[BuJaber]

And we need one blocker to target NM please.

[BuJaber]

I am a compuslive visitor as MD correctly deduced so I can't holster; TW checking me wouldn't work right?

[BuJaber]

Beef can't be scum without also implicating either mom or mastina.

So beef/mom/mastina all town unless A50 flips town.

Otherwise acryon/A50/NM is the team. They outed themselves man wow.. that is a lot of confidence. Kudos to that really. Admirable.


MASTINA STOP READING OLD SHIT SERIOUSLY JUST READ BACKWARDS ACRYON IS ALREADY DEAD

[BuJaber]

I finally have definitive proof that posting while catching up is stupid.

Write notes then split them up into several posts if they still make sense after the catchup.

[BuJaber]

We don't need mastina. She can hear herself talk later.

MD could you finalize the night plan? And in the 1% chance that A50 is town make one for that too please. Or tell me and I'll do one when I get a chance.

[BuJaber]

Sorry MD if this is a dumb question.. but since acryon didn't flip strongman, then there's definitely strongman or one of beef/mastina blocked you, right?

[BuJaber]

ALL HAIL MASTINA
ALL HAIL MATHDINO
TOWN CHAMPIONS NOW AND FOREVER IM SORRY FOR EVER DOUBTING YOU

I take offence to that.

If TW flips town he and I played a significant part.

[BuJaber]

@mod - VC pretty please

Who's the holdout? Apart from mastina (lmao at the dead player vote) and A50.

Like obviously I'm not serious about waiting for a50 to self hammer. If he doesn't post we hammer.

[BuJaber]

My issue is that I don't think mastina is scum.
That means if beef is scum then mom has to be scum too; which clears everyone else unless we have 4 scum.

Mom could be scum independently from beef.

NM could be scum with or without A50 but he is looking like town.

If A50 is town this game is harder but we should have this anyway. And the odds of him flipping town are so so low right now.

[BuJaber]

Personally I don't think we need to wait.

A50 not posting means he's given up regardless of his alignment. Though in general it points to scum rather town.

[BuJaber]

I wasn't sheeping dino lol that's clear to anyone who read. Saying half-sheeped is a mud-slinging cop-out.

Does it matter how late I joined or not joined wagons when I've pushed for both acryon and A50 time and time again?


The description of mastina's death - do we read into it? Coz it sounds like he died on his own.

Anyway there's always a chance TW is scum but that's doubtful.

If beef somehow flips town because the fabric of the universe twists before his flip NM and mom are a team.

VOTE: beef
Think viable options for A50/acryon partners.

[BuJaber]

Dino which can't be proven.

[BuJaber]

Assuming mastina did in fact get killed instead of having some sort of modifier to her role:

If you're town you're power obviously cannot stop the kill so we don't need you anymore.
If you're scum we hit scum.

Unfortunately since mastina was too busy catching up we don't know for sure that she followed Dino's plan.

[BuJaber]

Your*

[BuJaber]

Though I've been thinking about a busdriver role since day 1 and I suppose that is possible and explains a few things.

[BuJaber]

You theoritically could have JK'd someone else

[BuJaber]

It's not on wiki.. what do you call it on MS? The role that reroutes actions.

[BuJaber]

Well yes but if he's town mom has to be scum anyway.

[BuJaber]

Just spewing theory I'm voting beef unless he gets mod confirmed as town in thread lol. I'll discuss alternatives if he flips town.

[BuJaber]

I don't think the answer is just 'strongman'. As in yes scum might have strongman but I refuse to believe all these claims. One of the remaining players is definitely fakeclaiming. So I am not basing reads strictly on what makes sense with the claims.

Who do you want to lynch NM? The only viable options for me are beef/Mom/you. If you're not happy with beef you definitely don't want the other 2.

[BuJaber]

N1: Beef
N2: Mathdino


Worst case scenario with 2 scum alive: we can afford 1 mislynch.

Worst case scenario with 1 scum alive: we can afford 2 mislynches.

Anything better than worst case scenario (mislynch only without NK) we have more leeway.

I am lynching Beef/Mom/NM in that order assuming they live.

[BuJaber]

No I'd rather you didn't holster.

It won't have a mechanical effect on NK's but it gives more control of any potential kill.