Mini 1993 - Earthbound Mafia: Giygas' Curse - GAME OVER

[Iconeum]

Well, seeing how I seem to have slept through the RVS altogether, might as well:

Not liking the discussion between Math and IB regarding the definition of 'scummy'. I'd say I dislike IB the most in that exchange, though I don't know why Math is going through all that trouble to explain. Also not liking the OMGUS behaviour of that hydra.

Beefster, because you read both IB and Math as scummy right now, you believe it's a SvS fight? Thoughts?

VOTE: InfernoBrafin

fp'd about 7 times?

[Iconeum]

Beef!!

How are you reading Math so far?

Leaning scum. His posts feel kinda IIOA-ish.

Really? I read that whole deal as someone trying to explain something that's being misunderstood from his PoV. If anything, I read him as town because of that. Please respond to previous post of mine as well.

fp'd math

[Iconeum]

If anything IB is the more likely scum.

What makes him more likely scum then math, from your perspective?

[Iconeum]

I love being scumread as any alignment

Inferno do you agree that some players have meta that makes them seem scummy regardless of alignment?

What is the goal of this question?

If a player made like 75% scummy sounding posts and 25% Townie sounding posts how would you define them?

What is the goal of this question?

Inferno:

I would define them as "not very good at playing mafia."

l0l

You are actually probably scum.

That's a pretty sure statement you make here. IB has posted quite a bit already. Make a case on him?

[Iconeum]

You seem nervous

[Iconeum]

VOTE: the worst

[Iconeum]

tbh though by the end of the argument he feels so... phoney. like, he's clearly realised he's wrong but it feels like he's still going to win some moral high ground or something.

quote where you get this from plz


It's bad that I think your last post is your best, so far.

[Iconeum]

Indulge me

[Iconeum]

I can whinge about nearly all of his posts if you want. Tbh I'm not sure if I don't like him cause he's scum trying to discredit obvtown reads or don't like him cause his debating skills suck and he's trying to wing it anyway.

It's not about what I want. It's about you scumreading him but being reluctant to push.

[Iconeum]

Spoiler: Beefster's 180

Yeah. Mathdino's pinging me too. Let's see how this progresses.

Beef!!

How are you reading Math so far?

Leaning scum. His posts feel kinda IIOA-ish.

I otherwise seem to like your posts, but this ends up feeling like convenient hedging for you:
1. "Leaning scum [on Mathdino]. His posts feel kinda IIOA-ish"
2. "[Math vs. Inferno is] probably not SvS, so I'm likely wrong on at least one of them. I need to wait and see how things develop.
3. "If anything IB is the more likely scum."

So are you more or less saying here you think Mathdino is likely town?

If you want to take it that way, sure.

It's too early to tell.

Inferno:

I would define them as "not very good at playing mafia."

@Beefster: Which part of this is self-conscious?

After some more in-depth thought, while it's probably normal for hydras to be self-conscious about playstyle, it's another thing entirely to be self-conscious about others' reads on you.

I might be falling prey to confirmation bias here...

I think Mathdino is town because my gut is telling me that the worst is town and that Math and tw are the same alignment.

Momrangal confuses me.

Alright Beefster, what happened that you did a 180 on your MD read?

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Beefster

You can be town now, the worst

[Iconeum]

I prefer to not answer that question at this time.

[Iconeum]

Im busy ill post more kn monday.

[Iconeum]

I definitely have no finished games together with MD. I don't have any finished games with anyone, for that matter.
My read on him definitely leans town.

[Iconeum]

heh. I was actually in the middle of casing beefster here... I'll be posting that anyways.

[Iconeum]

Don't like the misrep by A50 about me questioning the worst on his IB scum read. I asked him to expand on it, and point out what makes him come to such a certain conclusion. That's hardly questioning the read itself.

His scumreads/leans are acryon and Buj... I feel is weak. I read Buj ISO, and read him as town.

Beefster still hasn't really responded to my question re his turnabout read on Mathdino. He 'changed his mind' but can't dig deeper into it? Proceeds to OMGUS me over that... His 236 doesn't seem right, calling out for asking questions and calls it 'lurking'?
And then in 348, it's back on MD? I would REALLY like Beefster to explain his thoughts process on that entire track.
Also not liking how much he mentions his 'self-conscious' read. The read doesn't evolve beyond this at all.

In short:

Beefster scumreads MD, proceeds to townread him after pressure without explanation, then sheeps another case and goes back into scum MD without explanation...

[Iconeum]

I'm down for a Paradox wagon.

193 'effortpost' incoming
295 does not qualify imo

We can at least force him into the discussion.

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Paradox

BuJ, do you realize how much WIFOM that last post was?

[Iconeum]

The Worst/
Mathdino/

BuJaber/
A50/

Carrot & Stick/ will be doing an ISO read here. I feel the push on MD is too hard coming from an uninformed pov, and hedged as well. More forthcoming.

Kthxbye/
Lil Uzi Vert/
acryon/
Momrangal/

InfernoBrafin/
TheGoldenParadox/
Beefster/

This is where I roughly stand now. Disliking bottom 3, really liking top 2. I'll be making up my mind on Carrot and stick later today. A lot of players seem to be avoiding discussion altogether so there's a bunch of them neutral to me.
To be honest, haven't fully caught up yet regarding the replacements, I will be focussing on that as well.

[Iconeum]

Apart from some severe mismatches between my own and Carrot's readlist, 342 doesn't read town to me at all.
It attacks MD as if coming from a guilty result, that's how sure it is. All while saying that MD could 'definitely' still be town.
Every single point that is made to call MD scum, is hedged.

I'm pretty sure those 'associations' can be made if you pick random players and reread their interactions.

Also, I don't disagree with points made on acryon.

Let's just say that as long as MD is playing the town game, which Carrot admites MD is playing, I'm not lynching there. If at any point in the game evidence of these 'long term scum objectives' become apparent, it's time to adjust.

369 even more hedging.

There is no way ever MD is being lynched D1 based on this case.

Though reading through, Carrot seems genuinly conviced of the posts so I don't read it as scummy... Let's put you right in the middle for now.

[Iconeum]

Well, of all things posted against MD, at least Carrot & Stick's posts aren't bullshit.
Really REALLy disliking IB's continues shitposting.

Resorting to calling MD's defense 'fabricated anger' is just laughable. What do you honestly expect would happen with that kind of posting? MD has made a lot of effort in steering the conversation away from that, but IB just keeps going back.

I'd like to continue to D2 with MD alive, keeping Carrot's posts about him ready to fall back on if needed.
Going to reread IB's ISO to see if I actually read him as scum for it...

fp'd by Carrot, haven't read it yet

[Iconeum]

Carrot, let's talk about Momrangel. I read many of his posts as pro town. Even trying to 'seperate' the 2 bulls in their hornfight I read as pro town. I also see good content re scumhunting in his ISO.
Where is the scumread coming from?

[Iconeum]

Carrot, your 525 agrees with me that MD isn't faking. You also previously pointed out that MD doesn't think IB to be scum, rather 'wrong' town. That also explains the frustration much more.
You come to the conclusion MD is scum for being genuinly frustrated, while I believe it's much much more likely that a town!MD is frustrated at being tunneled by another town.
His vote on IB at the very end isn't even that odd, then. Enough effort was made to steer the conversation away.
TL'DR, it's a TvT fight.

Now, about acryon and Momrangel...

fp'd again by Carrot

[Iconeum]

Easy solution here.
Carrot already provided it.

Let's wagon acryon here, MD. You already expressed you are willing to lynch there...

VOTE: acryon

[Iconeum]

VOTE: carrot and stick

[Iconeum]

Hop on guys.

I take full responsability if I'm wrong here.

[Iconeum]

Let's see how many **** I give. If I say I dislike the way carrot is playing this, it's an understatement.

'Lynch player x whom I read as scum, but he could def flip town but that's ok I take full responsibility for it'. 'Oh yeah, I also will not look at his reads even IF he flips town because fuck it I'm awesome'. 'And oh yeah, I'll even mislynch a second time without hesitation and IF i'm wrong, well MAYYYYBE i'll re-investigate'. 'You guys won't lynch me even after I lead this town to multiple mislynches BECAUSE YOU NEED ME'.

Get this crap out of the game now

[Iconeum]

There was no PR claim. Stop insinuating that.

You 'promised' me those reads? I don't even remember reading that in this clusterfuck. I read the playerlist just now and I can't even recall a single post from half those players!
Why would I even give you shit if I did remember? You're being sandwiched between a hammer and anvil.

fp'd by carrot twice or smth

[Iconeum]

It would be interesting to see you make a case on acryon, MD.

[Iconeum]

't would also be lovely if you got some breathing room to do that, as well.

[Iconeum]

@Almost50, what do you think about carrot's read on MD? You had him as (top?)town.

[Iconeum]

The problem I have right now is that I find a lot of what Carrot is posting, makes sense. I don't agree about MD, but I can see scum in acryon.
And I still hate the way carrot's going on about it. Let's just say I have a problem with that big ass ego. It's anti-town because you won't create a strong town core acting like that, even if you are right.

MD, why do you need someone to hold you accountable for anything? If you are town, that should be motivation enough to do the scumhunting. Like you said, it's your own choice.

[Iconeum]

Momrangel, what about following up on your scumread on acronym from early game?

[Iconeum]

Carrot, seeing how sure you are about your reads, you are still willing to lynch acryon over MD on D1?

[Iconeum]

You'll do a whole lot better if you drop the MD lynch on D1. I'm sure you will convince more players to follow your MD lead if you are right about the others.
There's not enough common ground with the rest of us for your case on MD to get an actual lynch on D1. Not saying it's a waste of time, but maybe your effort is currently best used elsewhere.

So we come to acryon (common ground).

And now I'm holding both MD and Carrot responsible here:

What is best for town? This discussion, or finding a more suitable wagon?

[Iconeum]

Why is day 1 still not over?

Can someone answer me this?

@MD, icon, IB, mastina, TW - Most of your scumreads are active players. How have a scum team of mostly active players not managed to close this day?


I need to do a reread but I am strongly suspecting Beef, mom and kthxbye slot. I need to reread Beef specifically but if I remember correctly he has been fence sitting all game.

My spidey sense is telling me something is off with the way mastina is townreading me. It feels like buddying. Mastina you haven't once interacted directly with me. But again I suspect carrot v MD is TvT yet again. Also because she fucking nails it with all her posts about me. But I'll add that I like to consider myself a student of the game. I am interested in playing the game the best way possible that suits my personality more than I am interested in winning. So If I lose along the way for doing things I haven't done before it is a positive overall outcome. Plus VT is my favorite role so that should give you an insight into my personality. Favorite roles tell you a lot about a person imo.


And btw your explanation of why we won't lynch you makes no sense. "You won't lynch me for mislynching twice because I am more likely to lynch 1 or 2 scum" huh?


@mod - please please please update the OP with the replacements.

how is this helpfull? D1 isn't over maybe because still OVER 8 DAYS LEFT?
Your question re active scumreads, I can't see town motivation in that.

If you suspect Carrot, I believe there are 'a few' posts for you to work with if you want to make a point. 'spidey sense' only goes so far

[Iconeum]

My point was apart from that sense of unease and the strange statement about her not getting lynched I am townreading the slot.

And it's helpful because I want people to start looking at the game differently because I suspect strongly that there is a lot of TvT tunneling and the scumteam have mostly been taken a passive approach. Because otherwise I think we would be at a different game state. There have been like what 4 1v1's that ended up in a stalemate.

Why does it matter how many days we have left? There is so much content already and day 1's have ended on a lot less. Do you find it normal that acryon seems to be the only wagon that more than 3 people would comfortably be willing to vote for?
Do you find it normal that nobody got to L-1 yet ?(haven't actually counted if that's true but I think it is)

You don't need any more interaction between all the lurkers and the current lynchpool? You believe the current 'content' is actually worth much?
What do you mean by the 'normal' question about acryon?

[Iconeum]

Bujaber's last 2 posts are pinging me so hard

[Iconeum]

Buj, you are 'strongly' suspecting these 3:

-beef
-mom
-kthxbye

Why are you not pushing these slots harder if you scumread them? There's over a whole week left for you to do stuff with.
What has kthxbye posted that makes you strongly scumread him?
If you have such strong reads, why are you not developping them? Instead you want the day to end?

[Iconeum]

Just like quickly caught up. Still processing everything a little but gut says
VOTE: Carrot and Stick

Replacing in like 9-10 days out from deadline, attempting to sweepingly discredit nearly the entire player list for being "morons" then War and Peace-casing the fuck out of the player who has BY FAR been the most proactive pre-replacements is nuts.

This feels like a ploy to win towncred/town leader position and not an active scumhunt.

Just need to decide for myself whether this play is too poor for scum!C&S honestly


P.S. my duck cuz is reading town to me. Still liking inferno less but this slot is more nullish/nulltown I think.

UNVOTE:
1. Mastina feels towny.
2. If this is scum!Mastina I need to think a LOT deeper.

VOTE: Iconeum

@the worst, you made no posts between these quotes, so it's a strange thought process to follow. What made you change your gut feeling about carrot?
Would you care to elaborate your vote on me, before I omgus you? Care to join in on the actual discussion instead of being silly?

[Iconeum]

Acryon, in that entire big wall of a readlist you make, you come to the conclusion that Beefster is your most likely scum. You also vote him, but there is 0 effort in you pushing that case; There wasn't even a reference to Beefster in that entire post.
What's up with that?

fp'd MD

[Iconeum]

An answer to how I read you? Town, which is why I'm questioning your vote on me.
Also, I now expect a bigger post from you explaining this:

'jumping into conversations and asking apparently pointless questions, making odd suggestions & not following through on them and generally agreeing with the tone of the game'

[Iconeum]

My intent and thoughtprocess? OMGUS

You called me out for ''jumping into conversations and asking apparently pointless questions, making odd suggestions & not following through on them and generally agreeing with the tone of the game',

but when asked what posts made you feel this way you don't want to? Why did you attempt to shade me in the first place? And not only shade, apparently I jumped to the top of your scumlist lol

somehow it's more important for you to effort that, instead of commenting on the actual discussion.

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Iconeum

[Iconeum]

Wait, how does that work (if real?)?
It's between MD and me now? I Always thought a gladiate is between the PR and a target of his choice?

[Iconeum]

heh easily tested indeed.
Also, how am I your pick out of those 3?

[Iconeum]

When I flip town, what will that tell you?

[Iconeum]

Even if the claim is true, it doesn't make acryon town.

[Iconeum]

why the hell are you voting me again? i'm seriously considering casing you at this point

[Iconeum]

Fine if this is gonna how this day is ending.

acryon, any last words?

[Iconeum]

On another note, a town player would use this ability to get himself out of trouble, AND force a duel between his own/majority scumreads.
This feels very panicky and def not pro-town.

[Iconeum]

How do you see yourself progressing the game on D2, now that you've certified a D1 town lynch?

[Iconeum]

How do you see yourself progressing the game on D2, now that you've certified a D1 town lynch?

This needs to be answered.

[Iconeum]

lol @ golden, nice skimming.

acryon, what information do you hope to get from my lynch?

[Iconeum]

I need information about the gladiate ability, is it inherintly scum, town, or NAI?

[Iconeum]

That doesn't make sense. Why would my claim not change who to lynch?
Also, if you admit my lynch gives nothing, it's super weird you still chose me.

[Iconeum]

If you think the gladiator claim is town, why would you be down with a revenge-vigshot on acryon?

[Iconeum]

VOTE: mathdino

[Iconeum]

My time (irl - lol) is running out today. Don't lynch me until I, eh, claim.

[Iconeum]

Though this is an easy choice to lynch MD over me. There's a divided playerlist over his slot, while I'm still overall townread. Lynching MD gives a much better start of D2 in any case.

[Iconeum]

@Icon: In a role madness game, probably everything is NAI. Hell I just got out of a game with a scum compulsive bodyguard on a townie with the ability to suicide.

You make such a strong case here.

[Iconeum]

I see now where the name 'gladiate' comes from.

[Iconeum]

I believe the game is large enough to allow us this no-lynch. I would prefer if both MD and myself got out of this mess alive.
However, I do not agree that a vig should shoot acryon. There are plenty of juicy vig targets out there, that probably won't be pressured on D2 but deserve to flip anyway.
Acryon is a prime target for a wagon on D2, which gives us a lot more information then simply killing him off during the night.

fp'd 3 times?

fpp'd again

[Iconeum]

VOTE: no lynch

[Iconeum]

No it's not.

[Iconeum]

That question goes nowhere, the worst. The option to no lynch while gladiate is in effect makes equal amounts of sense if it's town or scum alligned.

fp'd a milion times

[Iconeum]

Second season? Pilot? I feel like I'm watching it rerun for the 10th time

[Iconeum]

Look, if anyone is actually seriously considering lynching me, make a case on me. Let's at least discuss it while there is time.
Otherwise, I will be in favor of a

No lynch. <--- This is not my standard play, but this is not a standard situation either. It's between myself (and I don't wanna be lynched), or my town read.

Easy choice.

[Iconeum]

I'm also gonna say that I am beginning to see Carrot as town. It would make more sense for that slot to keep pushing MD after that 1v1, if it's scum.
Why would a scumastina go after no lynch, if it's TOP scumread for the majority of D1 is now being gladiated?

I mean, that's a bloody strong town tell imo.

[Iconeum]

Like literally the only other way for that backpedal by Carrot on MD to make sense, if it was a SvS fight.
That's unlikely because both have claimed protective roles, which is too vulnerable to being CC'd.

[Iconeum]

yo MD, now that the possibilty of No Lynch is in play, you still consider lynching me?

[Iconeum]

GoldenParadox, why are you not giving acryon more crap about his action? You were giving him crap before he gladiated, pushing for his lynch.
After that you vote for me, while I was also pushing for acryon lynch.

I'd expect you to at least question acryon on this.
IF acryon flips town, I'd give GP some serious attention here.

fp'd bujaber

[Iconeum]

Ok fuck i' i'm officially done with this game.
Let's all just lynch me now because I'm being townread and playing pro-town.

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Iconeum

[Iconeum]

It's probably the best if MD claim is real. I only have a backup role anyway.
Just reread my ISO to follow my reads on next day.

[Iconeum]

And yes this is me being upset because i'm being fucking lynched over 'everyone is reading him town so he must be scum'

[Iconeum]

I'd say acryon, Bujaber and Beefster are in my top scumrange right now.

[Iconeum]

Do you honestly want me to defend against a wifom case that is based on how strong townread i was?

[Iconeum]

I won't. I'm literally being scumread for doing the townie thing.

[Iconeum]

Okay


@Icon - I was hoping you would argue or scumread mastina. That would make it obvious to me you were town because there is no benefit to scum!icon to townread her.

What is this even supposed to mean?
You hope i'd go up against mastina, then you would townread me. Then you say there is no benefit for scum!me to townread her?

Wut?

[Iconeum]

Enjoy the lynch tomorrow

[Iconeum]

Though, my self vote was purely out of frustration and I'm not gonna give these scummers the pleaser.

UNVOTE: iconeum

[Iconeum]

I basicly just proved them as scum. Both acryon and bujaber want the townread lynched first because they know they'll have to NK me otherwise.
MD is more likely to get lynched then me on subsequent days.

[Iconeum]

Acryon even right out doesn't want to respond against the points against him because 'that's not usefull for town'.

[Iconeum]

I basicly just proved them as scum. Both acryon and bujaber want the townread lynched first because they know they'll have to NK me otherwise.
MD is more likely to get lynched then me on subsequent days.

I think anyone treating you as conftown right now is giving you way too much credit for your early posts. Like I said, I thought you played very tight in the early game, but saw a clear shift once people vocalized how strongly they townread you.

MathDino is also a higher-risk lynch if he is town because of his role.

I agree about me 'loosening up', but that doesn't explain why a town would ever out of all available options choose me in that gladiate duo. There are so many options out there that would help us so much more. Like it has been pointed out, choosing me is scum motivated.

[Iconeum]

The easiest explanation to your choosing me is simple: a panicking scum wants to get rid of a player they know is unlikely to be lynched.

[Iconeum]

If this is gonna be a choice between who's the more powerfull PR, I'm not sure if I beat bodyguard. At this point i'm more useless, but that changes as the game goes on.

[Iconeum]

I see good advice when I see it.
Will take a step back, calm down, and reevaluate tomorrow.

Do NOT lynch me or MD overnight with plenty of time till deadline.

I'm sure we can get our shit back together.

[Iconeum]

I consider no lynch the best option here. Or at least, the one with the smallest amount of damage done to town.
Seeing how I am promised to be protected, I could be a good target for someone to give me stuff.

[Iconeum]

Read the capitals

[Iconeum]

Yeah he's not post restricted. At least nothing in his previous posts suggests that he does.
I'm trying to figure out if he crumbed something that lead up to this, well, whatever it is but there was so little content I'm not sure there is even something there.