VARSOON VARIETY HOUR : GAME SCRAPPED

[OnTheMark]

Also, mastina, is it a rule that you HAVE to start every game making some claim about your role?
-Cerb

Only in a Varsoon game.

I can already tell this will be hilarious.

So glad I /in’d

[OnTheMark]

I play aether vial btw

Like dude? You’re accusing mastina of being antitown when you declare what the hell youre doing? When the mod just said no one can do shit yet.

mastina’s town people and still trying to sort beeboy. Is this a thing beeboy does?

@mastina Can I like “vote” but not vote? Meaning if I don’t actually use a tag to indicate a vote but I say “if I was voting I would vote ...” Does that work?

[OnTheMark]

Chara, it seemed like Mastina believed if. While her ability seems weak at the same time it doesn’t negate that she has one and it’s out in the open. The misunderstanding doesn’t negate the fact she claimed something and I want clarification from her. Note please also answer with just a yes or no mastina. The predicated belief is what is necessary and mastina from what I have heard about her if scum wouldn’t immediately drop a claim that her buddies would be pigeonholed into. Mastina is a lover of truth.

What specifically was the joke? Help me be “On the Mark” so to speak.

I saw the “misinterpretation” and I put that in quotes because it is irrelevant to why I townread her and thus Yume.

[OnTheMark]

@Chara Also interested in the fact you didn’t answer my beeboy question.

Has it played with beeboy before I wonder?

[OnTheMark]

Mastina when I ain’t out with my bros we need to legit talk.

Beeboy said your shit was antitown and claimings like antitoen and shit then asks you to claim like uhm? Huh?

I have a goal of d1 never calling anyone scum like at all. I have noticed when I push no one day one and just ask a shit ton of questions I find a shit ton of scum so talk with me gorgeous <3

[OnTheMark]

I play aether vial btw

Like dude? You’re accusing mastina of being antitown when you declare what the hell youre doing? When the mod just said no one can do shit yet.

mastina’s town people and still trying to sort beeboy. Is this a thing beeboy does?

@mastina Can I like “vote” but not vote? Meaning if I don’t actually use a tag to indicate a vote but I say “if I was voting I would vote ...” Does that work?

Mastina a yes no or not applicable or Marky Mark no can read would be like amaze balls.

[OnTheMark]

My birthday is the 14th so I will be paying attention but whatever Kiana wants is what we do.

FoS OnTheMark though.

Oh and before I forget I am like completely horrible with days so like Happy Birthday in advance! *grin*

[OnTheMark]

Mastina when I ain’t out with my bros we need to legit talk.

Beeboy said your shit was antitown and claimings like antitoen and shit then asks you to claim like uhm? Huh?

I have a goal of d1 never calling anyone scum like at all. I have noticed when I push no one day one and just ask a shit ton of questions I find a shit ton of scum so talk with me gorgeous <3

Hmph. When did this goal start?

As a dare from someone on MU a while back.

Wrecked scum in a turbo and a mash so far with it

[OnTheMark]

@Mastina you have 8 hours day 1, and 4 hours on all other days to place a vote.

There gets to a point in which what you said is just anti town and I am telling you what those points are right now.

Here beeboy says claiming an antitown ability is antitown.

Then he goes onto ask what it is? The premise of not voting is inherently antitown I agree. However the implication that you shouldn’t claim why and beeboy didn’t ask why is what has me troubled. It seems like he is acting like he knows you are town then asks you to claim later? Why? What benefit is there to you full claiming when it is mentioned in the setup to well not do that.

[OnTheMark]

@Chara Also interested in the fact you didn’t answer my beeboy question.

Has it played with beeboy before I wonder?

i feel like i was ignored here. :<

i'm a miller. i'll investigate as The End. thought about waiting until after pregame but there's really no reason not to claim now.

What made you feel ignored? You said a post was a joke and I am assessing that?

[OnTheMark]

I want Mastina or Yume to fully claim the ability they mentioned in thread btw.

~B

@Chara
It receives as it is asked.

[OnTheMark]

I am not saying that claiming is anti town in that post.
I am saying asking us to not vote until a designated Mastina time is done is antitown if left unchecked. That is why I set a time based boundary in my post.

Like what?
"Here beeboy says claiming an antitown ability is antitown."
??????????

When did I say not to claim in that post? i just told her to do her stuff quickly.

~B

Not in that post. It’s a weird contradiction later.

I don’t know what to make of it so I am asking.

[OnTheMark]

@Mastina you have 8 hours day 1, and 4 hours on all other days to place a vote.

There gets to a point in which what you said is just anti town and I am telling you what those points are right now.

Here beeboy says claiming an antitown ability is antitown.

Then he goes onto ask what it is? The premise of not voting is inherently antitown I agree. However the implication that you shouldn’t claim why and beeboy didn’t ask why is what has me troubled. It seems like he is acting like he knows you are town then asks you to claim later? Why? What benefit is there to you full claiming when it is mentioned in the setup to well not do that.

Here.

You said mastina claiming to have an ability that people should not vote is antitown. You did it through a joke request of mastina having a limited timeframe to vote?

[OnTheMark]

I find it disingenuous that you say she never should say it and then later on ask her to full claim.

It feels like dipping your hand in the cookie jar twice.

[OnTheMark]

no. my goodness. beeboy said mastina forcing everyone to not vote can get to a point where it's antitown, so he gave mastina a time limit.

Ohhhh

Then that makes more sense.

Yay for questions!

Beeboy can go back to null. Still don’t like the claim request but that seems NAI.

[OnTheMark]

I wonder who has a pregame ability to utilize in these 24 hours, and what will happen when it comes about?

Current guess is scum influence on which plane we'll be in each phase.

-Cerb

Hi town. How you doing?

I guess that line of questioning is silly and will lead us down a path of ruin.

[OnTheMark]

The reason I say that is people will make assumptions based on their role PMs. This is a Varsoon game. That means heads out of mechanics and eyes on the prize lynching scum.

[OnTheMark]

The reason I say that is people will make assumptions based on their role PMs. This is a Varsoon game. That means heads out of mechanics and eyes on the prize lynching scum.

How do you say this stuff and town read mastina for having a role.

~B

Because mastina is mastina. She crumbs as either alignment but an outright factual claim isn’t something she does as scum. Whether it’s a Varsoon game is irrelevant.

[OnTheMark]

but an outright factual claim isn’t something she does as scum.

This is the part I kinda want you to expand on.
Why wouldn't she outright claim something as scum?
How do you know the claim in question is "factual"?

~B

Because as scum she keeps options open.

I mean factual in the concrete sense.
I have no idea what spells etc are in the game. Mastina if town doesn’t know either and mastina if scum doesn’t know any town abilities either. Therefore an absolute of “I have an ability where...” is something that will resolve itself. Mastina as scum never pigeonholes herself like that.

[OnTheMark]

The reason I say that is people will make assumptions based on their role PMs. This is a Varsoon game. That means heads out of mechanics and eyes on the prize lynching scum.

How do you say this stuff and town read mastina for having a role.

~B

Because mastina is mastina. She crumbs as either alignment but an outright factual claim isn’t something she does as scum. Whether it’s a Varsoon game is irrelevant.

This is a true statement, though I wouldn't go so far as to say she WOULD NEVER do something as either alignment. She does tend to avoid outright lies though, that is true.

-Cerb

So in other words, since there is likely a truth in that yes, one would have to argue that if mastina hydra is scum then in the opening would have had to warn her allies or have just done a rogue plan?

The latter of which is not mastina’s bag unless pressured and the first requires all scum to be hyperactive or some degree of comfort level. It’s enough to where I give her a pass for now as town. If she is scum then I am wrong and we learn a lot about the scum team. Namely what I said before.

[OnTheMark]

@Chara: I'm sad that you're a miller, and happy that you're a miller. Sad because now I need to be paranoid all game, happy because if I can get past my paranoia, I get to know you're on my side!

i sure hope i can be town with you two for once. :>

i'm happy to be a miller for a second time. it's a part of my ongoing crusade against policy miller lynches!

pedit: hey, beeboy? i think Mark is town. or, to be more accurate, i believe they believe this. they could still be scum who believes this, i suppose.

I am a he,but good to know it supports gender quality.

[OnTheMark]

mastina's claim was anti town yes but anti town doesn't=scummy it was purely NAI she would've claimed that as mafia and town to help whatever side she's on gain an advantage the fact this is a topic of debate is silly
~Maki

This should be in your PT with beeboy to keep him from spamming the thread with lines of inquiry you don't agree with. <3

OnTheMark, are you going to make me go alt hunting to identify you?

-Cerb

Let’s just say that I have been reborn and doing things before I would not. I don’t like alt hunting but if you must you must.

[OnTheMark]

hey, let's everybody all claim how they get mana! that's a great idea.

Hey, let’s everybody put it in the town block!

[OnTheMark]

mastina's claim was anti town yes but anti town doesn't=scummy it was purely NAI she would've claimed that as mafia and town to help whatever side she's on gain an advantage the fact this is a topic of debate is silly
~Maki

This should be in your PT with beeboy to keep him from spamming the thread with lines of inquiry you don't agree with. <3

OnTheMark, are you going to make me go alt hunting to identify you?

-Cerb

Let’s just say that I have been reborn and doing things before I would not. I don’t like alt hunting but if you must you must.

You should probably make less arguments based on knowledge of individual playstyles if you don't want the more thorough among us to want to confirm how trustworthy your information is.

-Cerb

Noted.

Then mastina is town because *reasons*

[OnTheMark]

I wanted to be scum because I'm stronger as scum. Why y no give me scum?

- Phosphophyllite

You Yume or Mastina?

[OnTheMark]

Meh.

It's boring without votes.

The townblock it grows *manaical laughter*

Oops was that out loud? /end joke

[OnTheMark]

I don't think we actually have a townblock rn unless I'm missing something.

I do. You’re in it.

[OnTheMark]

I don't think we actually have a townblock rn unless I'm missing something.

I do. You’re in it.

What's the townblock then?

Everyone in my ISO I have called town.

@Venmar good luck with that. You can take the Mark out of the game but you can’t take out the town blocks that he leaves behind.

[OnTheMark]

I don't think we actually have a townblock rn unless I'm missing something.

I do. You’re in it.

What's the townblock then?

Everyone in my ISO I have called town.

@Venmar good luck with that. You can take the Mark out of the game but you can’t take out the town blocks that he leaves behind.

So Yume mastina hydra, Venmar, Chara and me?

Hell no on Venmar and Cerb is in.

[OnTheMark]

80% sure OMW is scum btw.

~B

OMW =?

[OnTheMark]

the fact is that if claiming how we all get mana would help the town coordinate to give everyone mana, this would not be a Varsoon game.

are you saying that im lying about the way i can get mana or are you saying im not lying and im scum with said ability?

It’s saying neither.

It’s saying mass claim or claiming abilities won’t help us like Varsoon said pregame.

Venmar is not a part of the townblock.

[OnTheMark]

yoooooooooooooooooooooooo i wasnt asking you markman

I Garcia more than the analyst on Criminal Minds XD

[OnTheMark]

Interesting.

Please continue with yourselves both of you.

This will help me sort you.

I am good with my townreads. You may not get me but I am just playing to my strengths.

[OnTheMark]

Your argument so far is I don’t like Mark’s playstyle.

Which scum generally don’t. Especially on MU.

[OnTheMark]

You're an alt.

Of which I have said I am. So? I have been reborn.

[OnTheMark]

If I replied to every post every person did I’d be Mr. Spam a Lot.

I reply to what needs replying to. *shrug*

Call it selective as much as you wish. If you feel I need to address something in particular call it out.

Otherwise move on.

[OnTheMark]

"people who dont like my playstyle are scum"

sounds silly and superfluous without having to even be said out-loud.

That is what you’re doing to me hence my point.

I dislike Chara’s style sometimes. However that is not alignment indicative.

Forming townblocks early is playstyle.

You want to point out things you scumread me for? Go right ahead. Til then you’re just bitching you aren’t in the town block.

[OnTheMark]

You in the past 4 pages have yet to answer the simplest questions.

Why do you think Mastina is making a risk here as scum?

Answered mentioned investigative roles

Why do you think Mastina would be forcing her buddies to play around her claim?

Answered mentioned investigative roles

What are your thoughts on role being made before alignments?

I already addressed I don’t want to get into mechanics. It’s a Varsoon game.

Like it isn't even about the answers to the question at this point. Your approach is just sketchy af here, your misrepresenting what is going on in the thread. you aren't talking about why your town reads are town and you aren't trying to avoid actual engagement, you just want to bicker.

~B

Already addressed those. See italics.

[OnTheMark]

Chara, it seemed like Mastina believed if. While her ability seems weak at the same time it doesn’t negate that she has one and it’s out in the open. The misunderstanding doesn’t negate the fact she claimed something and I want clarification from her. Note please also answer with just a yes or no mastina. The predicated belief is what is necessary and mastina from what I have heard about her if scum wouldn’t immediately drop a claim that her buddies would be pigeonholed into. Mastina is a lover of truth.

What specifically was the joke? Help me be “On the Mark” so to speak.

I saw the “misinterpretation” and I put that in quotes because it is irrelevant to why I townread her and thus Yume.

but an outright factual claim isn’t something she does as scum.

This is the part I kinda want you to expand on.
Why wouldn't she outright claim something as scum?
How do you know the claim in question is "factual"?

~B

Because as scum she keeps options open.

I mean factual in the concrete sense.
I have no idea what spells etc are in the game. Mastina if town doesn’t know either and mastina if scum doesn’t know any town abilities either. Therefore an absolute of “I have an ability where...” is something that will resolve itself. Mastina as scum never pigeonholes herself like that.

@beeboy here you go again.

[OnTheMark]

Chara, it seemed like Mastina believed if. While her ability seems weak at the same time it doesn’t negate that she has one and it’s out in the open. The misunderstanding doesn’t negate the fact she claimed something and I want clarification from her. Note please also answer with just a yes or no mastina. The predicated belief is what is necessary and mastina from what I have heard about her if scum wouldn’t immediately drop a claim that her buddies would be pigeonholed into. Mastina is a lover of truth.

What specifically was the joke? Help me be “On the Mark” so to speak.

I saw the “misinterpretation” and I put that in quotes because it is irrelevant to why I townread her and thus Yume.

but an outright factual claim isn’t something she does as scum.

This is the part I kinda want you to expand on.
Why wouldn't she outright claim something as scum?
How do you know the claim in question is "factual"?

~B

Because as scum she keeps options open.

I mean factual in the concrete sense.
I have no idea what spells etc are in the game.

Mastina if town doesn’t know either and mastina if scum doesn’t know any town abilities either. Therefore an absolute of “I have an ability where...” is something that will resolve itself. Mastina as scum never pigeonholes herself like that.

@beeboy here you go again.

I feel like I am in the twilight zone. I underlined where I talked about roles?

How can I be talking about roles but yet to you I am not?

[OnTheMark]

Let me break it down for you
Case A:Mastina is lying.
Consequence A: Mastina/Yume hydra opens themselves up to roles that fuck with them.

Case B: Mastina is truthtelling.
Consequence B: Mastina/Yume has to then limit what her scumbuddies can do. This implies comfort with scumbuddies and/or hyper posters.

Like huh?

[OnTheMark]

What does that have to do with investigative roles?

~B

What do roles have to do with roles?

Like if Mastina is lying roles out her lie. *blinks*
So as scum she’d be pigeonholing her buddies.
As town it’s just silly.

Therefore the most likely option is Mastina is telling the truth. In which case also pigeonholes her buddies.

If you were scum would you role claim without consent of buddies?

[OnTheMark]

hey, this argument is pointless, can we nix it. you're talking around each other. Mark's underlined bit means investigative roles to them, and his logic on this has been consistent. i don't think any more semantics are going to help.

+1 Exactly my sentiments.

I am nixing it until someone can rephrase the question in a way I understand. I am trying here but I don’t get it.

[OnTheMark]

Oh, also.
I think this is important to claim.

NOBODY CAST ANY VOTES UNTIL OUR HYDRA HAS HAD A CHANCE TO CAST VOTES.

We have a very, very strong ability which has a very, very specific trigger--and every time a player votes before we use this, the ability becomes weaker.
Go ahead and FoS all you want, but for the duration of the time we are alive, this will apply at the beginning of every day phase.

(THIS IS WHY WORDING IN ROLE PMS IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE MY INTERPRETATION OF THE ROLE WAS A GAMEBREAKINGLY POWERFUL ABILITY AND YET V IS TELLING ME HE MEANT SOMETHING ELSE WITH THAT WORDING. /rant )

Oh.

Orrrrrr...our ability could be ridiculously, ridiculously week of the mod correction means anything.
Disregard my message then.

Mastina’s claim

If she doesn’t have a role that matches whatever this is investigative roles would fuck her over. Point A.

[OnTheMark]

Faking a claim pigeonholes the amount of worlds scum can operate in:

Either A) they believe it til lylo or B) they are forced to dismantle and therefore bus mastina

Truthtelling a claim gives town information and then they can’t have mastina say it isn’t true down the line of scum need a roleblocker or something.

It’s a ridiculously newb scum gambit move mastina would not make.

Point B.

[OnTheMark]

That's not an investigative claim?

~B

I didn’t say she was an investigative. I said investigatives would mess with her.

[OnTheMark]

Did it seriously take you 4 pages to say you thought Mastina claimed an investigative role.

~B

No.

I am not saying that.

I am saying whatever she does claim has to match her open.

[OnTheMark]

Ok all your logic is bad but it's vaguely there.
Now the 3rd question.

Since Varsoon essentially designed 17 town roles then made 4 people scum.
Why exactly is that risky to claim given it's truthful regardless of her alignment?

~B

It’s bad scum play.

Let’s say for shits and giggles Mastina claims tracker. (I don’t think she is this is for practical example) She then has to provide truthful results each night.

If she lies then she is outed scum. If someone rolecops her and she didn’t come back tracker then she is outed scum.

That is way too huge a risk in a 17 player game.

Now assume she is scum tracker telling the truth. Then she still has to give us accurate information. Scum also can’t challenge the claim or they have to bus her.

The manipulation they can do is then extremely limited and not talking about it with colleagues and/or winging it with hyperposters is just bad play.

[OnTheMark]

he answered them earlier, you just didn't understand. much like he didn't understand you, earlier. he's also already answered your question in 204, let's see how long it takes that to be figured out, hurray!

Pedit sorry

[OnTheMark]

Chara, can you please elaborate on your miller claim. Mainly if you're a universal miller, or if it's just alignment type investigations that your passive affects.

Regarding OTM: I find it weird that they never specified investigative as as problem for mastina, instead focusing on the rhetorically limitations an early fake claim would place upon her, but somehow thought they had mentioned the obvious threat of an investigative catching mastina in a lie. Seems like an unlikely mistake for scum to make(more town poorly expressing their thoughts than scum being inconsistent), but the slot is worth watching.

-Cerb

Because it’s like duh?

[OnTheMark]

Chara, can you please elaborate on your miller claim. Mainly if you're a universal miller, or if it's just alignment type investigations that your passive affects.

Regarding OTM: I find it weird that they never specified investigative as as problem for mastina, instead focusing on the rhetorically limitations an early fake claim would place upon her, but somehow thought they had mentioned the obvious threat of an investigative catching mastina in a lie. Seems like an unlikely mistake for scum to make(more town poorly expressing their thoughts than scum being inconsistent), but the slot is worth watching.

-Cerb

How the fuck is claiming a condition committing to claiming a role.

~B

Because the same logic applies.

Replace tracker with weird thing mastina claimed. She is still bound by it.

It all still holds.

[OnTheMark]

If I say "My role can't be used if I am ever set to L-2" an example of a condition for a role.
How exactly does that limit what I can claim in the future.

~B

Say for example a scum player claims L-2 Vengekill
Then when they get to L-2 a Vengekill has to happen or they are outed. By exposing ways they could put themselves they have to take that into consideration with their claim and plays.

Even if they don’t specify the exact nature of the item at l-2.
Then the scum play has to resolve around either getting to or avoiding l-2 depending on truth or fakeclaiming.

[OnTheMark]

So Mark what exactly in your own words not Mastina's, did Mastina claim she could do.
I read that she claimed that she was "powerful" and needed people to not vote her.

Roleblock is powerful, 2-shot Cop is powerful, Jailkeeper is powerful, whatever cards are in my hand that can be drawn by any player with my color(s) is also powerful.
She didn't limit herself at all.

~B

She claims she has some kind of ability related to voting towards day open.

This means I am expecting Mastina to watch day open like a hawk since she specifically has abilities tied to voting. If nothing comes of that or she doesn’t do something specifically towards how she opened then she needs a closer look at which point there is public evidence towards her lying.

[OnTheMark]

Like let's go to 66% of my read and forget about Mastina for the rest of the day
This line of reasoning can hardly be discussed as well so we are all lucky!

I don't think Mark tried to sort me but was randomly bickering with me regardless. Like pointing out typos but not my arguments.
I don't think Mark's townblock shit has any real sorting it's just calling people town, like I can go through his ISO and find plenty of people in his townblock that aren't explained.

Mark as town is a lot more aggressive and wouldn't just buddy people and try and townblock for unexplained reasons since Mark would try and communicate his read even if no one understands it.
Like Mark as town buddies like 50% of the time and it is more subtle and is based on liking people personally and wanting too cooperate or due to having stronger reads.

Mark as scum is this shit which is just buddying and posturing hardcore.

I am saying I know Mark's main but idk if I wanna dive into the meta too much.

~B

You can try to meta me if you wish but I have spent the past few months offsite working on meta issues.

So you CAN try to use the old meta if you wish. It just isn’t factually relevant.

[OnTheMark]

I have gone from directly case bombing to one or two word posts sometimes just being declarative of how I feel about a person.

I find when I do that I am almost exclusively right. I form two blocks and work with people not against as both alignments now.

I understand it’s not something people are used to from me, but I am trying to be a better player and assuming I am always going to be a shitty asshole sucks.

[OnTheMark]

I have gone from directly case bombing to one or two word posts sometimes just being declarative of how I feel about a person.

I find when I do that I am almost exclusively right. I form town blocks and work with people not against as both alignments now.

I understand it’s not something people are used to from me, but I am trying to be a better player and assuming I am always going to be a shitty asshole sucks.

Ebwop

[OnTheMark]

It’s a mastina (or a Yume!)

When you’re caught up I would love a sanity check chica.

[OnTheMark]

So ...you caught up Mastina?

Also I am curious about Creature being intentionally omitted. Why?

[OnTheMark]

Interesting. I had him as lock town because reasons.

There’s a current I am having trouble finding. Something is weird this game I can’t put my finger on.

[OnTheMark]

Kiana and I TR RR and Creature strongly.

I agree with this as well.

I look forward to trying to see more of your unified reads and Kiana posting.

[OnTheMark]

@mastina — Iconeum no posts.

How do you read that slot as town?

[OnTheMark]

Someone talk Tibor with me.

I can’t get a feel on Tibor.

[OnTheMark]

Shhhhh tell me your thoughts on Tibor. Maybe scum won’t notice

[OnTheMark]

Right now, I feel like either Maid Cafe or OTM is scum, I'm not sure which one though leaning towards Maid Cafe. I didn't like 53 and 88 from them.

Tibor and Lumia ping town to me. That is a gut read.

Pre-edit: Thanks Phosphophyllite

What post pinged you as town? I know pings if true can be hard to explain but which post shouldn’t be.

[OnTheMark]

it informs scum. it would be fine to claim later and confusion would easily be avoided that way.
anyway, it doesn't matter now.

this is my last, desperate call into an uncaring universe: please stop claiming, everyone.

Good thing I haven’t claimed then. Although this brings back memories. Please tell me I wasn’t townreading it too soon? I townread everything before this post.

[OnTheMark]

To my understanding, I have a very inconsistent way of acquiring mana. But primarily, two ways:

1) Not using my Planeswalker ability

2) I target someone with my Planeswalker ability. For 2 phases, I gain Mana the same way they would, and I gain their abilities. I can only do this once per dayphase.

I'm literally a temporary copy-cat.

i was......... kidding, Taly. did you miss my other posts on why claiming is anti-town?

I don't think so?

it's not a blessing and a hindrance. it's just a hindrance.

At most, my abilities wouldn't be original or stagnant ones. I'm not expecting other people to claim this early, especially after mine.

I figured if I claimed and stated that then it would avoid confusion later in the game when abilities and roles would likely be discussed.

I agree with Chara’s point even though something pinged me. Your claim gives me scum pings too. Don’t know why yet. Since your claim is out there can you expand more on why you claimed?

[OnTheMark]

Yeah. It’s a tactic I have seen from good scum. State the truth (claiming is a bad idea) in an emotional way but not delve into why they claimed. I have seen it way too many times and it made me flash to that. You’re probably still town but I think I am pinged by it not digging deeper. Does this make sense?

[OnTheMark]

How would you also feel if I said I didn’t townread Taly? @Chara

[OnTheMark]

ah, i thought you were making a vague meta point.
yes, that makes sense.

Taly did explain why they claimed, though.

pedit: i wouldn't really feel strongly about it. Taly hasn't done anything to be townread for.

Taly gave a reason yes.

However it feels manufactured.

Specifically because they have two short posts one of which claiming confusion so they had read. So if they were confused about your original post and saw no one was claiming why didn’t they ask you how you felt or try to ascertain what was going on. By asking Taly why I can see if the slot was not reading as indicated before or they were and chose to delay posting content.

[OnTheMark]

Like they had to have read to respond to later posts but at the same time are confused yet never ask a single question? It feels newb scum to me but they could be newb town. I want help in sorting Taly.

Hi Random. Hope to hear from Shiro soon.

[OnTheMark]

Furthermore notice how your name is in bold?

I’d take a bet that Taly is going to claim copy catting your abilities to get out of bad check.

Taly, care to prove me wrong and never copycat Chara?

[OnTheMark]

How do we even have claims?? GAME HASN'T STARTED YET

You gonna comment on anyone’s reads or alignment? Or just do the exact thing I just called out as scummy as fuck?

[OnTheMark]

venmar is a townlean, i respect the shitpost

listen here fucko, i will not take that lying down

Then you can take my townlean and like it.

[OnTheMark]

And...just like that you’re back into null.

Cmon dude. Wake me up when you go go. Because that post is a no go.

[OnTheMark]

is your thought process:

oh hey he made a joke, he's town!
oh hey's townreading a slot that's clashing with me, he might not be town!

or ??

Nope.

It’s more you’re blatantly sheeping without reasons and I think you’re better than that.

It’s like you’re trying to escape the day without content. The joke made me think you were doing it to hide from scum then when that bad sheep post came up it pinged me bad so I went nope.

I townread Chara and Chara townreads Bee if memory serves. So nice try though.

[OnTheMark]

I wish people would actually talk with me instead of at me.

And I think one of Taly or RR is scum. Not necessarily an either or just at least one. I don’t like what Cerb did there.

I also wish people would explain Tabor to me and talk about how Taly doesn’t interact with recent stuff.

[OnTheMark]

Also, I want to reiterate this from the signup thread:
Do not expect that all the Spell Cards in this game reflect their real-game counterparts.
I've mostly tried to render the Magic the Gathering mechanics as Mafia mechanics, but some spells may have different mana costs, type, or effect than what you expect.
In short, flavor knowledge will not help you solve this game unless players claim their spell card flavors and their spell card flavors happen to match the real card flavors.
Also, as a very important heads up, a large part of this game design will include players gaining advantage over others if they have knowledge of the setup flavor.
For that reason, claiming flavor may have an actual mechanical detriment to your win condition.
Finally, Flavor has no bearing on alignment.

All alignments were generated AFTER roles were created.

TL;DR: Flavor can, to an extent, be gamed, but only IF CLAIMED. Flavor =/= Alignment.

If you have any flavor questions, feel free to ask in this thread or via PM.

@Chara It should read the underlined.

[OnTheMark]

I wish people would actually talk with me instead of at me.

And I think one of Taly or RR is scum. Not necessarily an either or just at least one. I don’t like what Cerb did there.

I also wish people would explain Tabor to me and talk about how Taly doesn’t interact with recent stuff.

What do you wanna talk about
~Maki

I need help sorting Tabor and how Taly seems to be deliberately post behind and not post anything relevant. See my prior post asking about it.

[OnTheMark]

ah, i thought you were making a vague meta point.
yes, that makes sense.

Taly did explain why they claimed, though.

pedit: i wouldn't really feel strongly about it. Taly hasn't done anything to be townread for.

Taly gave a reason yes.

However it feels manufactured.

Specifically because they have two short posts one of which claiming confusion so they had read. So if they were confused about your original post and saw no one was claiming why didn’t they ask you how you felt or try to ascertain what was going on. By asking Taly why I can see if the slot was not reading as indicated before or they were and chose to delay posting content.

This last paragraph specifically is my concern about Taly.

@Cerb

[OnTheMark]

In regards to your play it feels horrible like you’re trying to put a reason down to avoid interacting with my original points.

[OnTheMark]

The claim is bad imho for two reasons.
1) Investigative (good point)
2) Taly has demonstrated reading in which no one claimed and then so Taly would see the thread ignored it or read it as a joke yet hasn’t read the thread to be confused. Taly can’t have read and not read the thread. That is where I am confused.

[OnTheMark]

I'm confused reading this conversation

mastina's claim was anti town yes but anti town doesn't=scummy it was purely NAI she would've claimed that as mafia and town to help whatever side she's on gain an advantage the fact this is a topic of debate is silly
~Maki

Mastina's claim is anti-town but NAI?...

Also, claiming is both a blessing and hindrance to everyone, regardless of their alignment. I doubt any of us have normal roles or abilities, and I don't know if many have synergy with another.

@Chara Also interested in the fact you didn’t answer my beeboy question.

Has it played with beeboy before I wonder?

i feel like i was ignored here. :<

i'm a miller. i'll investigate as The End. thought about waiting until after pregame but there's really no reason not to claim now.

I feel more good about this claim than uneasy. I've been a Miller before, and I know personally, claiming that early is most helpful to the town.

So while flavor or mechanics do not reflect alignment here; I like what I'm seeing from

Chara

.

hey, let's everybody all claim how they get mana! that's a great idea.

To my understanding, I have a

very inconsistent

way of acquiring mana. But primarily, two ways:

1)

Not using my Planeswalker ability

2)

I target someone with my Planeswalker ability. For 2 phases, I gain Mana the same way they would, and I gain their abilities. I can only do this once per dayphase.

I'm literally a temporary copy-cat.

i'm a miller. i'll investigate as The End.

You're the me this game!
...Except you'll actually be nightkilled rather than be taken to 3p lylo.
(That being said, I anticipate being dead before lylo this game, not by lynch.)

Pretty sure most people read their abilities and thought the same thing.

Trying to townblock on page 5 feels kinda insane to me.

I read the whole thread but most of it felt pretty meaningless. I'll be back when we can vote.

predit: oh look its mastina. looking forward to finally playing a game with you.

No response about Mastina's claim, though? ...Because it's affected by votes based on what she's stated.

Okay, I might see it. These posts are weird. The second one would be fine, if not for the existence of the first one. They were clearly around and reading etc, and chose not to post expect for a useless bit of fluff, then went back and responded to a bunch of older stuff, out of order even, so it's even less likely that they were just skimming previously and then came back and read. Either they were ISO'ing people, seemingly randomly, skimming and saving stuff to respond to later(when those responses weren't exactly extensive, so...why not respond to them immediately), or going out of their way to respond to things in this weird way.

-Cerb

Exactly. Hence my confusion and I am wondering why.

And was hoping for input.

[OnTheMark]

I wish people would actually talk with me instead of at me.

And I think one of Taly or RR is scum. Not necessarily an either or just at least one. I don’t like what Cerb did there.

I also wish people would explain Tabor to me and talk about how Taly doesn’t interact with recent stuff.

What do you wanna talk about
~Maki

I need help sorting Tabor and how Taly seems to be deliberately post behind and not post anything relevant. See my prior post asking about it.

Tabor feels null they haven't really posted much of anything that makes me pull one way or another just fluff questions
Taly seemingly not being here at the gamestate when they post is an interesting take but posts alone make me cringe I'd call em a light sr.
Anything else on your mind? I'm curious why those 2 were the top 2 on your mind.
~Maki

Tabor is because I don’t see any Gamma posts and I can read Gamma much better I think. I am struggling to figure out brass and I want to get people talking about slots in general so I can get a feel for the unknowns. It’s weird people don’t talk that slot to me because it’s somewhar active.

[OnTheMark]

80% sure OMW is scum btw.

~B

What grounds for this?

-Tibor

I don't really like how when they argued with me it was from the POV of someone just arguing to prove there point and not really someone who is thinking about mine or there own posts.
The stubborn nature is something I'd ignore for the most part but they are also ignoring half the statements I made but was willing to argue me on issues that mostly aren't relevant so I don't think that there intention is to sort me even if they give 0 shits about readjusting there mastina read.

Also the buddying all the posters thing is also scummy af.

~B

Makes sense, thanks.

And for Venmar, exclusively, I have updated the signature.

-Tibor

Really? Tibor calling me town then saying Beeboy’s points make sense then not following up is not interesting to you? Gamma a hyperactive poster NOT posting is not interesting to you?

[OnTheMark]

Tibor Taly Micc Skybird potential team?

Will explain when home but I think the Maki slot is town but beeboy scum. Since I tend to read beeboy backwards going with beeboy slot is town for now.

[OnTheMark]

I kinda think Sky is town but 160 gives me scum feels for Tibor not town.

And the entire argument isn’t activity. It is just a piece. He’s really hyper as town and not so much as scum.

[OnTheMark]

Actually, it was me, and yet it wasn't.



The statement before this one is true.

The statement before THIS one is false.

So tell me, is it me, or is it not?

This resolves to Actually, it wasn’t me, and yet it was.

This is of course assuming the last statement made by the hydra is true.

If the last statement was false then this resolved to Actually it was me, and yet it wasn’t.

However then we end up in a confirmation spiral so the general principle is that the statement is true unless otherwise indicated.

Therefore I believe the answer you want is
“Actually it was me, yet it wasn’t.”

[OnTheMark]

Actually, it was me, and yet it wasn't.



The statement before this one is true.

The statement before THIS one is false.

So tell me, is it me, or is it not?

This resolves to Actually, it wasn’t me, and yet it was.

This is of course assuming the last statement made by the hydra is true.

If the last statement was false then this resolved to Actually it was me, and yet it wasn’t.

However then we end up in a confirmation spiral so the general principle is that the statement is true unless otherwise indicated.

Therefore I believe the answer you want is
“Actually it wasn’t me, yet it was.”

Ebwop

Derp words crossed last line.

[OnTheMark]

I kinda think Sky is town but 160 gives me scum feels for Tibor not town.

And the entire argument isn’t activity. It is just a piece. He’s really hyper as town and not so much as scum.

Wait, is this a meta argument on me or Gamma?

-Tibor

Gamma. Every town game I have read of Gamma’s he has like a bajillion (scientific term IKR) posts. I know you said earlier that Gamma was back seating but I would expect to see something from him. I also don’t like it took me asking about Gamma for you to mention it, while Mastina was uptight about it.

[OnTheMark]

I felt this way about another person once, and I was right, so there is 90% chance I am right this time as well.

how could you possibly be 90% sure on anything this early.

Venmar seems a bit off.

lol your face seems a bit off

Actually, it was me, and yet it wasn't.



The statement before this one is true.

The statement before THIS one is false.

So tell me, is it me, or is it not?

this post is cancer

Being sure doesn’t have a time frame.
I have known people to catch people in a single post.

What matters is how they follow that up.

[OnTheMark]

quick reminder to everyone that i need to be 2nd largest wagon each day to be useful :/

vote: Venmar

If you’re town then it’s much more important to have natural wagons.
If you’re scum then I endorse your full blown lynch.

Reminder denied.

[OnTheMark]

You're correct. You win a puppy.

Yay! Puppies!

Just as long as they arent rabid and don’t kill me.

I love puppies!

[OnTheMark]

@Cerb — Name one thing you disagree with me strongly on and one thing you disagree with me but it’s meb.

@Kiara (the other part of the Titus hydra) same question.

I am thinking I might be rescinding the Cerb TR.

[OnTheMark]

Kiana checking in.

I've been keeping up with the thread, everything's well and good. Titus is great and expressed my reads on players dutifully. We'll make a great team.

@OnTheMark, Why do you want me to find something disagree with you with? I'm townreading you. Do you want me to specifically look through your posts and find something to disagree about?

~Kiana

I want to make sure I am not being buddied.

Generally I am used to more resistance to my ideas.

I am legit concerned that I am going to be buddied. The easiest way I can sort that is to find some disagreement and then examine it and see if the points seem valid or not. However with too much agreement that’s really hard. I am a rather vocal player and if I am wrong I can easily see people propping me up. I mean I have had that concern and just been right but it’s more I kinda wanna get a feel. Right now I can’t get that from your slot.

[OnTheMark]

So to kinda make it easier I'm just gonna go through each slot's ISO and just pick out posts I think are relevant and alignment telling. That way if I'm completely off base the assumption that lead to that can be corrected.

Pedit: Hi Dunnstral

[OnTheMark]

Iconeum

How have you guys pooped out 11 pages in pregame...

Skybird, Creature, RR, Shinding D townread.

Maid Café should respond to 237. I love how she bashes OTM for not responding, yet doesn't answer herself.

Maid scumreading right now. Maybe lyncher - lynchee with OTM. That would be hilarious

I find this rather hilarious that in 11 pages that this is the only read that has some substance to it. It feels manufactured though. I find it disingenuous that in 11 pages Iconeum has only one read and then doesn't really push that read hard. Multiple players have done this and it's one of the main reasons I think the Beeboy/Maki hydra is town. I think the content being generated by the Maki/Beeboy hydra sucks and I can see where the Mastina/Yume slot is coming from with it, but the way people are sheeping sans reason the Beeboy scumread makes it more likely they are town.

How do we even have claims?? GAME HASN'T STARTED YET

How do we even have claims?? GAME HASN'T STARTED YET

You gonna comment on anyone’s reads or alignment? Or just do the exact thing I just called out as scummy as fuck?

I gave reads myself. Im trying to stop this turning into massclaim before the has evenbegun ffs

What was scummy about me making a readlist?

It's more how Mastina/Yume put it. There is a readlist but there's nothing else your slot has done. It leaves me rather uneasy. It's why I'm reevaluating all the people you townread on that list.

Overall Read: Need assistance in reading.

[OnTheMark]

oh bee obv towned for me already god bless

Sorry, but no. (Consider this also a response to bee's content prior to this. All of it.)

Btw as indicated--I can push this stronger if need be, I am recording stuff in a PT the mod provided, but I'll be trying to keep my posting to a minimum in this thread. So I'm only responding to the most important of things publicly.

This qualifies.

I like this post from Mastina here. It's direct and takes a stance early. Similar to the claim stuff before. It just feels genuine.

Hi town. How you doing?

So they're gonna find out when I post my final readslist anyway, but Reasonably Rational is in my scum list already. (I'M SORRY.)

This has many caveats to it--I am giving you my word that unless something of absolute dire consequence comes up or Yume specifically asks me to (if Yume wants to push them, then I will of course help her out <3), I'm not going to actually push that before D3 at the absolute earliest (with even D3 probably being too soon). The scumread is not rock-solid; it is barely above average in strength. It is subject to change and I consider Reasonably Rational to be a self-sorting slot akin to Creature.

They just take much, much, much longer to get to that stage. I know damn good and well not to trust a scumread like this so early on, that it very well can (and probably will) reverse. And while I do expect to die during the night, I don't expect it to be immediately, so I can afford to wait on this. To put it another way--I won't lie and say I townread them, but I will still work with them actively as possible and come to my own conclusions later on. Though the read is technically scum, I am going to treat them as if town and give them that reads pass more or less for about (preferably slightly over) half the game.

(You CAN read them correctly before then...it's just that it's much, much harder and both Drixx and I at the very least don't want the grief of me trying regardless of his alignment. It gets UGLY when I am vocal about scumreading him. I mean it's ugly for me to scumread him REGARDLESS since me being subtle about it doesn't do much to lessen how shitty it is...but however bad scumreading him in the background might be, doing so in the foreground is ten times worse.)

SO WITH THAT SAID.

You can go ahead and trust them...
...But don't trust them to be town fully until they have the resume actually supporting it.

They absolutely don't have that yet. I honestly don't think it's possible for them to have it before D2 because before D2 there's no definitive information to tell you what is and is not town. Only assumptions. And given that Reasonably Rational is just about the most powertown hydra in existence regardless of whether they are town or scum...on D1, assumptions will always point those not more in the know to them being town.

tl;dr version: Please don't be mad at me, Drixx. I'm giving you a LOT of leeway here. A LOT. I just can't afford to give you unlimited sway because Cerb's play has been such where you aren't in the zone where I can. My read is what my read is and right now that read is not a positive one, so I advise others to take caution in having one prematurely.

I see a lot of genuineness here in trying to townread Drixx. However at the same time, I think either you're right or you're having a self realization that you scumread Drixx every game he's in. I have a tendency to over town read the slot. I'm trying to figure out which. So the truth is one of us and I kinda wanna figure out which.

I am going to claim something I prolly should have approached subtly but it heavily helps the town to target us with actions that grants our slots abilities/items/whatever you wanna call it. When we gain an ability as a result of another player/Creature's spell or ability (which is all actions) we will "power up", well not exactly but I don't really want to claim that part. But essentially just give us free stuff since it's more cost effective then giving other players stuff in a pretty meaningful way.
~B

I am fairly certain this is a >random scum ability.

Not just from a game design perspective, but from a Varsoon game design perspective.

It's the kind which

could

come from town, admittedly, yes. But it is still far >random odds of being a scum ability.

Claiming it openly does nothing to lessen that.

I kinda find it weird there's a rash of claims after I said my reaction to yours. I fully believe scum would have had time to plan for some of the later ones and the act of claiming for those is NAI. Same with the abilities itself because Varsoon game. Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy if the Beeboy slot was scum because that would explain the frustrations earlier but I just don't think that's the case. I think that based on others Beeboy is town, but if we get off track, the slot is worth revisiting.

If that is truly her role why would she holster the info.

I state what I deem I need to--nothing more. Revealing the information I saw as giving no benefit with potential harm; holstering the information I saw as doing no harm but being potentially helpful.

How do you know the claim in question is "factual"?
~B

Well given V's interpretation of my role is different from what mine was when I claimed...it wasn't.

Buuuuuuuuuuut, aside from that technicality: the claim in question is factual because scumastina doesn't make (deliberately) non-factual claims. (And for that matter is less likely to accidentally make a non-factual claim.) You have played with me often enough to be well aware of this. I've no interest in rambling on my mafia philosophy on why I hold this stance, but there's no need to; there are multiple individuals in this game who can vouch for it, and you SHOULD be among them.

Seconded. They're making a true statement, which is not indicative of their alignment.
-Cerb

No prizes for what I think of your content thusfar.

I think while this post seems to be "fillery" it adds a lot of content. I think this post is written both by Mastina and Yume and kinda speaks towards what I'm feeling. Like if Mastina is scum I don't mind actually losing to her because I'd have been fooled. I just want to get to a point of synergy. The pair are tying themselves to me in a really obvious way. In mastina's scum games that I've read I don't see that being the case.

i'm a miller. i'll investigate as The End.

You're the me this game!
...Except you'll actually be nightkilled rather than be taken to 3p lylo.
(That being said, I anticipate being dead before lylo this game, not by lynch.)

Mastina when I ain’t out with my bros we need to legit talk.

If the talk is about a bee scumread, I am all down for it. bee's not my only scumread and isn't my strongest scumread, but I'll only be sharing the final readslist I have when caught up. (The others you'll just have to wait until postgame to read the PT to see.)

I like what the slot did here because it shows a desire to synergize and drive at the same time. I kinda wanna push Taly because of this, yet at the same time Taly feels town and scum at the same time and it's messing with my head. I usually get a "vibe" of the thread and I feel like there's some major discord and I can't figure out fucking why. I think I might want to see how Skybird responds to the thread.

The reason I say that is people will make assumptions based on their role PMs. This is a Varsoon game. That means heads out of mechanics and eyes on the prize lynching scum.

How do you say this stuff and town read mastina for having a role.
~B

How do you say this stuff and yet post post 88?

You're not the only player to point this out about Beeboy? How do you feel about the other players making this point? Are they sheeps or town? Why?

like this isn't AI. maybe it is but i wouldn't know how to look at it. i hate reading it, not because it's noise (i really don't care about noise), but because i can see what both of you are trying to say. but there's no clear communication, just a series of misinterpretations. that's why it's taking pages and pages to explain simple things on, now, both fronts.

I am of the opinion this is deliberate on the part of bee.

More bee talk. I wish you'd talk more about the people you scumread more.

Chara
OnTheMark (CAVEAT: if I know his identity this is a much weaker townread because my ability to read him is shit and in actuality bee's raised points mirror many of my own concerns)
Iconeum
Bronya Zaychik
Tibor and Lumia

Baku and Munna

Dunnstral
SnarkySnowman
Almost50

Venmar


Micc
Taly


Reasonably Rational (CAVEAT: IS EFFECTIVELY LYNCH-IMMUNE BEFORE D3)
Maid Cafe
Skybird


(ABSENT: Creature deliberately removed.)

Final readslist.

To try to make this more brief I'm going to just say that MOST of this I agree with. However, I have a hard time agreeing with anyone being lynch proof barring IC. That being said I can see if you're trying to work with Drixx that you won't push him before D3. I think that if a wagon forms without you pushing and is majority townreads, I don't think the lynchproof should hold.

Oh.
Meant to.
For clarity--powertown is something I consider to be "greater than protown" in this context.
But I did in fact mean powertown.
As in, something beyond protown, into powertown territory.

I like how this was just an "oops" and fixed it and wasn't a big hubba loo.

[OnTheMark]

Kiana checking in.

I've been keeping up with the thread, everything's well and good. Titus is great and expressed my reads on players dutifully. We'll make a great team.

@OnTheMark, Why do you want me to find something disagree with you with? I'm townreading you. Do you want me to specifically look through your posts and find something to disagree about?

~Kiana

I want to make sure I am not being buddied.

Generally I am used to more resistance to my ideas.

I am legit concerned that I am going to be buddied. The easiest way I can sort that is to find some disagreement and then examine it and see if the points seem valid or not. However with too much agreement that’s really hard. I am a rather vocal player and if I am wrong I can easily see people propping me up. I mean I have had that concern and just been right but it’s more I kinda wanna get a feel. Right now I can’t get that from your slot.

Okay, then how about I go for this one: I'll disagree with this very post itself then.

I'm glad that you are aware of your own weaknesses, that you have a blind spot for scum who may be trying to buddy you; this is good self-awareness of your strengths and weaknesses and makes you a better player! But, I don't believe that it's likely that many scum, if any, will be planning to specifically target you to be buddied; you're an anonymous account with an obfuscated name and reputation. Scum would likely target the "big fish" for buddying, rather than you who is putting on a mask to hide your true identity.

And, to add on, even if scum were trying to buddy you, then that means that player has a certain heightened degree of skill; your current method of wanting to specifically obtain a "disagreement" is inefficient and perfunctory at best. That player would be more than likely to perform the full job and go all the way to complete the "buddying" process. It is not difficult at all to "find a disagreement" and answer your questions.

Honestly, if you feel that your scumhunting ability is weak, that's fine! What I suggest you to do is to find a townread or two that you trust, then work with them to solve the game. It's okay to let stronger players tackle the scumhunting if you know you're weaker at that area, all you need is to give them your support, and cooperate with everyone, and it will advance town wincon. You don't have to try too hard and force yourself to do something that you know you're weak at. Again, knowing your strengths and weaknesses is a good thing, it's even better if you know how to work on them and capitalize on your strengths!

That works You can be in the town block. <3

[OnTheMark]

Please stop ISO-ing players on Page 16, OtM! I don't think it's going to be very productive with so little information on the table, and if they're too long soon people will stop reading them!

Well it's more, I kinda need to to see where people stand and where my thoughts are. It's kinda a thing I need to do. Would spoiler tags help? I think it's gonna be productive for a few different reasons. Mainly should I be night killed (which is kinda the road the game seems to be heading towards) I need to be more verbose. In the games where I wreck scum in later days the verbosity helped the town left after my NK/turbo mislynch to just power lynch the remaining scum.

[OnTheMark]

I mean if it really bugs people I'll just spoiler tag it.

[OnTheMark]

I mean if it really bugs people I'll just spoiler tag it.

Okay, I see, so those ISOs are for your own personal use? If that's the case, then yes, I suppose spoilering them will help.

Do take into account however that not everyone will pay attention to your reads until you gain some degree of accuracy credibility. Heck, I don't even think town pays attention to my own reads sometimes!

Kinda both. Mainly it's weird. I'm a player no one listens to when alive, but if things kinda seem to be going correctly and I die, I get listened to a lot at death.

I also kinda don't recognize you. I recognize Titus but not you. I feel like I should but I don't so I'm treating you like a null entity for now and it's kinda why I townread the slot. Titus I just quite frankly give up on reading and since she's in a hydra and has to share you're alignment I'm just going to read you.

It's one of the reasons I'm kinda pissed at the Tibor response. It's a courtesy if in a hydra to keep players informed of if one head V/LAs or what not. Both slots do contribute. While they do share the same alignment if only one person is playing the game (unless outed as a coaching hydra) it's scummy as fuck to keep one head silent.

[OnTheMark]

I mean if it really bugs people I'll just spoiler tag it.

Okay, I see, so those ISOs are for your own personal use? If that's the case, then yes, I suppose spoilering them will help.

Do take into account however that not everyone will pay attention to your reads until you gain some degree of accuracy credibility. Heck, I don't even think town pays attention to my own reads sometimes!

Kinda both. Mainly it's weird. I'm a player no one listens to when alive, but if things kinda seem to be going correctly and I die, I get listened to a lot at death.

I also kinda don't recognize you. I recognize Titus but not you. I feel like I should but I don't so I'm treating you like a null entity for now and it's kinda why I townread the slot. Titus I just quite frankly give up on reading and since she's in a hydra and has to share you're alignment I'm just going to read you.

It's one of the reasons I'm kinda pissed at the Tibor response. It's a courtesy if in a hydra to keep players informed of if one head V/LAs or what not. Both slots do contribute. While they do share the same alignment if only one person is playing the game (unless outed as a coaching hydra) it's scummy as fuck to keep one head silent.

That's fine. I myself have significantly better accuracy when reading "null entities", as you put it, as compared to friends, because sometimes I don't want to scumread friends even though they are actually scum

But I'll be happy to work with you and I'd be interested to see if your reads are as good as you are claiming them to be, or is it another case of RC-syndrome.

If you're an anonymous account though, I don't think players will listen to your reads regardless because you don't have the reputation that your main account goes off.

Funny. I'm in the same boat with null entities. I actually have much more respect when my name isn't attached. I've got a few sites where I'm almost an instant NK even over PRs now. I'm just working on getting this one to the same point, hence the alt account and deliberating trying to change my meta. I think if on MS, that you are required to be popular to be listened to and have your reads examined after death, that seems to be a flaw of MS. That's typically not the case on sites like MU, DLP, and a couple of proboards sites. That results in an easily exploitable meta for scum and it's something I am unashamed to admit I have used on MS.

[OnTheMark]

@Taly -- As a reminder you CANNOT copy Chara.
Chara is a known miller. If you copy them based on what is implied here then it seems like you'd cop that alignment if being a miller is how Chara gets mana. (AND NO FOR THE LOVE OF THAT IS TOWNIE Chara don't validate/correct/comment on my hypothesis.)

Spoiler: Chara

no. my goodness. beeboy said mastina forcing everyone to not vote can get to a point where it's antitown, so he gave mastina a time limit.

This is a quick example of Chara helping to defuse a situation. I don't see scum!Chara doing this regardless of Beeboy's alignment as if Chara is scum this benefits scum rather greatly.

hey, let's everybody all claim how they get mana! that's a great idea.

Another example of being protown quickly. The sarcasm was so bold everyone picked it up. Even me. Yay self humor.

while i completely understand Venmar's reasons for claiming if he is indeed town with what he

believes

to be a killer role, the fact is that if claiming how we all get mana would help the town coordinate to give everyone mana, this would not be a Varsoon game.

pedit: Venmar, there's a townblock because i'm so incredibly towny, all of the time, that my mere existence necessitates one so i might be in it.

I also like how Chara progresses here. At first it's a "Hey. This won't work" and then when Venmar tries it again, it's all like "Hell no you can wagon obvTown me instead". It's a good way of diffusing the situation. I think Chara is more focused on a healthy game than enforcing its opinion and that's a good thing to me. Because a healthy game will naturally spawn scum and townreads and form a block.

hey, this argument is pointless, can we nix it. you're talking around each other. Mark's underlined bit means investigative roles to them, and his logic on this has been consistent. i don't think any more semantics are going to help.

More of the same ol' helping everyone out and stopping me from self destructing. Hooray!

To my understanding, I have a very inconsistent way of acquiring mana. But primarily, two ways:

1) Not using my Planeswalker ability

2) I target someone with my Planeswalker ability. For 2 phases, I gain Mana the same way they would, and I gain their abilities. I can only do this once per dayphase.

I'm literally a temporary copy-cat.

i was......... kidding, Taly. did you miss my other posts on why claiming is anti-town?

Yeah...This post is a quick summary of why I scumread Taly so hard.

it informs scum. it would be fine to claim later and confusion would easily be avoided that way.
anyway, it doesn't matter now.

this is my last, desperate call into an uncaring universe: please stop claiming, everyone.

Send in the mass hugs to the obvTown!

saying something makes sense isn't agreeing with it. i also said someone made sense earlier, and it was about either a scumping or a scumread on me. i think it was you, actually.

Gamma not posting isn't interesting until it becomes a pattern, (need more time) or you can show me Gamma scumgames where he avoids the thread.

I just quite frankly do not have the time to look this up. It's just a pattern I keep in my head.

...right. i knew that. because i received one. sorry about that.

also, i counterclaim Venmar's mana-farming method. wagon me instead.

Again, I freaking love how Chara shut this shit down. I look forward to seeing where Venmar votes after this.

[OnTheMark]

I actually have much more respect when my name isn't attached. I've got a few sites where I'm almost an instant NK even over PRs now. I'm just working on getting this one to the same point, hence the alt account and deliberating trying to change my meta. I think if on MS, that you are required to be popular to be listened to and have your reads examined after death, that seems to be a flaw of MS. That's typically not the case on sites like MU, DLP, and a couple of proboards sites. That results in an easily exploitable meta for scum and it's something I am unashamed to admit I have used on MS.

Sorry, I couldn't parse these sentences. I think you accidentally started rambling!

Well, I disagree with what *I think* you are trying to say. Being "popular" to be listened to is not symptomatic of MS, it's apparently how the world works: Your track record creates a reputation, and that reputation creates trust, which is tied to your name or brand. This happens on every site: recognized names get listened to more than random players; and even in the office, the "popular" guy or the one with a better reputation gets listened to more often. I don't think that's necessarily an issue, as long as said reputation is justly earned and verified over the course of a couple of games, instead of something that is bogus or assigned. Given that MS.net is more of a community website, I believe this isn't a large issue.

Are you saying that you are trying to get this specific alternate account to the same level of revere and reputation as your main account? Well, that would be an interesting challenge, for sure. You must demonstrate a good track record of catching scum with this account though! And you'll also have to deal with the fact that certain players with certain overrate and undeserved egos will think that they are better than you, and try to strongarm lynches and override your reads, when, oh boy, they really just don't know.

Probably it's like 1 am here and I'm staying up to work with you. Yay for days where I'm not doing things with the bros.

Well it's more I agree with the concept of track records, just not how they are used on MS.
A person with a track record of being 100% right during that game, gets NK'd, flips town, should be given a lot more weight, regardless of their prior track history.

Now if a person happens to be mislynched due to seeming scummy, being wrong, and/or going against the town block, then flips town and has a "good" reputation then maybe they get some more credence, but the main problem I have is that the priorities seem reversed.

That on MS you have to be popular in order to be listened to, but you can't be listened to unless you're popular. It's a problem I've only seen on MS. And I'm not sure how to address it but I can change myself. So I'm trying to do that to fit in more with the meta.

[OnTheMark]

Right now, I feel like either Maid Cafe or OTM is scum, I'm not sure which one though leaning towards Maid Cafe. I didn't like 53 and 88 from them.

Tibor and Lumia ping town to me. That is a gut read.

Pre-edit: Thanks Phosphophyllite

worst post in the game

Really want to talk about this one! This is the one that makes me townread Skybird.

He get's his opinion in on the 1v1 between Maid and OTM, takes a stance, and backs it with a reasoning.

I don't see it as a terrible post at all.

It's what makes me scumread Sky.

Ironically this response makes me nullread you.

[OnTheMark]

@Bronya probably done for tonight with the general thoughts, but I'll pick it up tomorrow probably at some point. If you don't need anything I'm just gonna crash for the night?

[OnTheMark]

A person with a track record of being 100% right during that game, gets NK'd, flips town, should be given a lot more weight, regardless of their prior track history.

But a counterargument with that would be the gambler's fallacy: Just because a random player has 2 correct scumreads does not mean that he has the 3rd one correct; what if it's just luck? If a player who always uses an RNG to perform scumhunting somehow had 100% correct reads in a game, would you still trust his reads even after they're dead? With his track record, it'd be pretty easy to tell, but what if we're following your ideal of not using prior track records to judge a player? What then?

It doesn't necessarily mean that the player is correct. However, gambler's fallacy in this case doesn't apply.

Mafia is not a game of luck, it's a game of skill. If mafia was a game of luck it would apply.

However since mafia is a game of skill and logic, the scientific theory applies. Meaning that you have a hypothesis:
Player X (who was NK'd) had good reads in this game.In fact, Player X hasn't been wrong yet. Until there is evidence that is presented to counter them being wrong, they should be listened to. The evidence has been presented that they are right. Evidence therefore needs to be presented that they are wrong before they quit being listened to.

The track records, are a separate matter. In general Player X could be good or atrocious. That's not relevant to this game. However if they are atrocious and are doing the same atrocious things then it WOULD be relevant. However, a track record ALONE is not enough. It has to be combined with a pattern of some evidence in this game. What the problem is that someone goes "Player X has a 75% win rate as town" therefore their reads are right and should be listened to. And that is the real gambler's fallacy as it's not based on any evidence in game.

[OnTheMark]

historically, a scum lynch on day 1 is actually worse for town. sometimes, it can work out wonderfully despite that. but for the most part, i'd call it bad. Maki knows what i mean.

therefore, seeing as my role powers up on town deaths, and a day 1 scum lynch is bad for town, i propose we collectively agree to lynch town. i know it sounds silly, but it makes sense. i hate seeing town do well on the first day only to tank every other.

VOTE: Mark

This is a problem to address if it comes up not before. I have seen town sweep games. Should the problem you mention occur then reexamining the townblock would need to happen.

Although I think at this point it’s a joke thing or a mana thing.

[OnTheMark]

@On The Mark, Are Rubicon and Sloth still on DLP? What was your favorite game and role there?

~Titus

I can check the site to see if their usernames are there if you want but I am alting for reasons I said before so answering specific questions about whether/if I have played there and how is not something I want to do. I used DLP for research.

[OnTheMark]

it's the first time i've heard of the theory, pretty null on it, more interested in the reactions to it. i honestly thinks it's kind of silly and we should just lynch productively and naturally to what the gamestate demands, but it's not like i haven't seen wackier theories have some merit.

Interesting. Why did you try to form a wagon on yourself if you think wagons should form naturally?

[OnTheMark]

i don't think me pursuing a wagon on me is natural at all actually. i think

from my pov

a wagon on me falls under the "productive" category.

So then what is the difference between a forced wagon on you and a forced wagon on me?

Both still have “reactions” to the imho silly idea.

What makes a wagon on you productive versus a wagon on me not be?

I think neither are productive.

[OnTheMark]

i think you're wanting to draw conclusions from places that don't have them lol. a wagon on me in this case is productive only from my pov so i don't expect it to look like so to you from yours. a wagon on you is productive if the people pushing it think you're scum. a wagon on town can be productive from chara's pov. simple as that, nowhere in #493 did i specify that being "productive" or "natural" has to mean the lynch is on scum.

why do you think i am forcing a wagon on myself, which i no longer am? do you consider me and only me voting myself a wagon and "forced"?

Because it isn’t something the whole group could use.

Imagine if a player claimed they get mana from lynching an IC?
If town then they probably tell the truth.
If scum then they are probably lying to remove the IC.

Either way a vital part of the town is inherently gone. And at that point you’re playing more mechanics than mafia. Right now we have no evidence or rational foundation in which to springboard from and so we need more of the undercurrent to find scum rather than mechanics or lol based posturing.

[OnTheMark]

This is far too early for VCA.

Let's let things develop. We need wagons with actual lynch threat.

~Titus

Om we agree. Can I have my puppy?

[OnTheMark]

This is far too early for VCA.

Let's let things develop. We need wagons with actual lynch threat.

~Titus

Om we agree. Can I have my puppy?

You can have a cookie. Gluten free even.

What kind of blasphemy is this? I want a puppy not a cookie!

I will take a gluten free puppy

[OnTheMark]

VOTE: Skybird

Give me your reactions peoples.

[OnTheMark]

i got slight scum vibes from shining dreamers push on maid cafe. it seemed like they started from the position "we're pushing maid cafe" rather than either "we are looking at evidence for maid cafe's alignment" or "we think maid cafe is scum, what evidence supports this" but nothing too strong atm
Venmar is a 100% gut read. it could be bias but i think he is at the very least genuine in his opinions, and am leaning town.
Maid Cafe is that i was on their side in the pregame arguments making me think they were town.
OTM is playing misguided town to a T. A lot of wrong pushes but they genuinely believe them and are trying to solve the game.

Where do you think I am right and where do you think I am wrong?

[OnTheMark]

VOTE: ReasonblyRational

Ooh look what you made me do. Look what you made me do.

[OnTheMark]

i would guess the vote moves via privately messaging Varsoon.
but, as usual, your questions are quite thorough.

pedit: :<

Mark, is there a reason you enjoy swooping to my defense so valiantly?

It is not to your defense.

I am about to case Reasonably Rational and show how irrational and contradictory Cerb is being.

Odd that you respond to this and not the Skybird vote.

Then after I get done if someone townreads RR then tell me why.

[OnTheMark]

Hello friends. I haven't posted yet because I wanted brass to play before I did to give him some chance to freshly interact with some people he wasn't as familiar with.
Gonna try to internalize my thoughts to reduce post volume/mass
~Lumia

Yay! It’s a Lumia!

Your slot goes back to null.

Next time please state so upfront. It’s a common thing.

[OnTheMark]

I wonder who has a pregame ability to utilize in these 24 hours, and what will happen when it comes about?

Current guess is scum influence on which plane we'll be in each phase.

-Cerb

Hi town. How you doing?

I guess that line of questioning is silly and will lead us down a path of ruin.

I'm fantastic, thank you for asking! Trying to get synced up with my other head, and taking a bit of a break from work because I've been focusing on the work shiz all day. ^^ How are you doing?

And yes, it might not lead us down a path of ruin, but I'd rather not go there. Mastin is smart, if she didn't actually claim the whole thing and she's town, then not claiming it is probably a reasonable option. If she's scum, then whatever they claim will be perfectly reasonable, just like their refusal to claim will be at this point. Besides, there are other details about that whole situation that make it a lot more helpful to not push them on it.

@Chara: I'm sad that you're a miller, and happy that you're a miller. Sad because now I need to be paranoid all game, happy because if I can get past my paranoia, I get to know you're on my side!

@Maid Cafe: Noted. Not going to be giving you anything, but, good to know.
-Cerb

I find it odd here, that Cerb's thoughts here directly contradict my thoughts in post 96 among others. However when I asked him for something he disagreed with he said, in post 392 nothing. This is one of the things that makes me worry. Cerb generally doesn't "mind meld" for lack of a better word this early and I was supremely scared.Drixx, while being offline, tends to favor the "case" type of arguments, and lots of data and endpoints. The fact Cerb decided to not really think about it long and then blow off the question seems odd. It's more like a "I don't give a shit to answer this." That's not really how I expect someone who town reads another to disregard what they are saying. The Titus/Kiana question was more an after thought but I was mainly trying to get a feel for Cerb. (And yes I'm calling the slot Cerb until Drixx pops in. Deal.)

Cerb has also tried to spend most of pregame and D1 towards a mechanics based play style instead of a reads based one from his opening.

it's the first time i've heard of the theory, pretty null on it, more interested in the reactions to it. i honestly thinks it's kind of silly and we should just lynch productively and naturally to what the gamestate demands, but it's not like i haven't seen wackier theories have some merit.

Interesting. Why did you try to form a wagon on yourself if you think wagons should form naturally?

Seconded.

Also, that whole theory thing is, as someone else said, simply something to keep in mind when town lynches scum D1, not a reason to deliberately try to lynch town.

Also also another thing, but I wanna wait and see what everybody else has to say before I bring it up. <3

-cerb

Now notice that Cerb specifically mentions that he agrees with my point on wagons forming naturally. He says a minor contradiction in which he says games should always be solved from a role POV. That's not always the case. If a role provides evidence, e.g. you KNOW someone did something, that is mod confirmed obviously don't ignore it. Similarly if someone says they did something, then that gets taken into account. However, the point about role POV directly goes counter to this being a Varsoon game. Take for example Steven's Universe. That game was specifically solved through the power of a town block and THEN actions. Not ACTIONS then town block.

I don't really think we should try and solve this game from a role/role usage POV, especially day 1.

~B

You can always try to solve a game from a role usage POV. Not necessarily from the role alone though, so you're half right.

-Cerb

Notice here it's a "disagreement" without teeth behind it. It's like "you're half right" but he doesn't actively discourage or dissuade the parts he finds wrong. In fact, Cerb has been rather quiet in terms of that, just sort of floating. I haven't seen Cerb actually take a stance for something he believes in. Players with far fewer posts have left a stronger imprint on the game. Drixx's being MIA while that annoys me is typical for his personality/work life balance. Lumia gave a reason so I'll back off for now on them, but I want to see some townie content before D1 is up from the slot.

I'm also considering asking everyone to just vote for themselves until a VC happens to see if we can identify who the thief is, but...alignments were rolled after roles were made, so that won't be useful since the decision was made pretty early.

Oh, also: A50, when was your vote stolen? Midday, at day start? Were you told anything about the source of the vote steal? Like if it was a card used by someone?

-Cerb

Now this is where one contradiction is a potential fuckup, a second is shame on you. Earlier, Cerb agreed with wagons forming naturally. Now Cerb is arguing for the destruction of current wagons in that everyone votes for themselves. Not only does this NOT address the core problem of people missing votes, it hides the voting pattern, and goes strictly against the mechanics post Cerb agreed with me on. He can't both agree and disagree with himself can he? If other players are missing votes (I have not received such a PM) then that would come up in a VC or if A50 is telling the truth the players inbox. The only thing hunting for a vote stealer does is create chaos and distract from hunting scum.

Mainly the buddied feeling hasn't gone away where it actually has with Titus/Kiana which is a nice bonus.

I miss A50 too. I also agree that natural forming wagons are more important than whatever venmar can do, particular this early in the game.

-Cerb

This is kinda the nail I think in the coffin. With Cerb agreeing with me with a lack of mechanics focus (or rather more accurately flip flopping) whatever Venmar is claiming to do Cerb seems to be frightened of or scared of. He wants natural wagons over Venmar's ability and a then to remove those wagons because a vote stealer exists, despite the effect that comes from the player voting anyone receives the same results.

I'm pretty sure Cerb is buddying scum here, and those townreading RR I would love to have opinions from.

Although I lost my dare. Damn it.

[OnTheMark]

i got slight scum vibes from shining dreamers push on maid cafe. it seemed like they started from the position "we're pushing maid cafe" rather than either "we are looking at evidence for maid cafe's alignment" or "we think maid cafe is scum, what evidence supports this" but nothing too strong atm
Venmar is a 100% gut read. it could be bias but i think he is at the very least genuine in his opinions, and am leaning town.
Maid Cafe is that i was on their side in the pregame arguments making me think they were town.
OTM is playing misguided town to a T. A lot of wrong pushes but they genuinely believe them and are trying to solve the game.

Where do you think I am right and where do you think I am wrong?

1v1 with maid cafe, early townbloccing. nothing you were right on springs to mind.

Interesting...None of those are actually pushes. Maid Cafe was pushing me for a perceived wording issue far as I can tell. I still legit don't get it.
However I don't see that as a wrong push...You said there was a lot of "wrong pushes" surely you can name one?

[OnTheMark]

i'm not talking about stealing mana, i'm talking about informing scum nightkills, and scum power use.

and how Varsoon hates massclaims, explicitly warned us against flavour claims, etc.

maybe it means nothing. but i can guarantee Varsoon did not design this game so that it's a good idea for everyone to claim and coordinate mana stacking.

and this hasn't even touched on the fact i'm not townreading you, so why should i be giving you mana? :<

I dunno people said this about mass claiming not breaking both GiF magical girl games and both got broken via mass claim if people went for it.

I think generally its more pro-town if we all just openly try and get mana. If there are conflicting ways to generate it then we lose maybe 3 people casting spells. Vs me and Maki trying to play like a jester get voted, cross vote under a specific condition then hope that we can walk it off.

Like being hidden about mana generation I think hurts town, I think the game was made so most of us can generate mana, Varsoon wouldn't design cards people can't realistically use and by hiding how i get mana me and maki just get taken off our cards 9/10 times.
Lot's of people can still hiddenly generate mana and don't need to claim conditions.

Scum knowing I always act tonight is strictly better than me not acting.

~B

LOL Let's assume you're town for a moment. This is a 100% horrible terribad idea. Throw it away.

Any good scum worth their weight in salt WANTS every town acting. Because uninformed players more often than not, do uninformed bad choices. Everyone's role is going to seem powerful. Furthermore since I'm taking Varsoon at his word that roles were made pre rand then scum would almost certainly have something factional to balance or some sort of help. I do agree with what was mentioned can't remember who that the phases are likely scum controlled. I think mana or flavor claiming is in essence suicidal and would be bad. I wouldn't be shocked to see scum have a flavor claim or mana claim mechanic in place either. It's just bad.

Please stop this bee.

[OnTheMark]

Each spell will have a unique 'type' modifier, such as 'sorcery', 'instant', 'creature', etc--these are simply keywords that help differentiate how a spell functions.
The entire functionality of a spell card will be reflected in its text; keywords will be described on the spell card itself rather than in public rules.
Unless noted otherwise, once a spell card has been used, it may not be used again for the rest of the game.

Furthermore, mana doesn't stack per what Varsoon put in the first post.

If we all out how we get mana, scum can like just stop us from getting mana. So let's NOT out how we get mana or our abilities. It will in essence make us all D1 actors and vanillas otherwise. So just no.

[OnTheMark]

That's not really how I expect someone who town reads another to disregard what they are saying. The Titus/Kiana question was more an after thought but I was mainly trying to get a feel for Cerb. (And yes I'm calling the slot Cerb until Drixx pops in. Deal.)

i would argue that scum RR pays

more

attention to how they answer questions, not less.

They did pay attention. The reaction was IDGAF. I wasn't saying they're not paying attention. It's that they are blatantly contradicting themselves. And I don't know where Cerb

actually

stands on mechanical issues or his reads. I want that to stop.

[OnTheMark]

I wanted to be scum because I'm stronger as scum. Why y no give me scum?

- Phosphophyllite

I don't get this, some of your recent best have been town games
Unless this is the wrong head then nvm
~Lumia

Phos is Yume.
Yume is an amazingly strong scum player.
I think the more she hydras with Mastina the better town player she becomes.
Like if the strength of a Mastina/Yume hybrid manifested itself it'd have the right to brag about it's torn muscle shirt from all the strength.

[OnTheMark]

There is no magic mechanic that enables you to steal someones mana and Varsoon is trying to stay true to the real game.

after looking some more, there are certainly cards that do this besides the ones i posted.

anyway. you're outed, it's done. let's not all follow along, though.

should i be townreading Maid Cafe for this? they were nullscum before but now i'm musing.

I'd keep them as null. I have a slight townread but that's based on others interactions. I'm still feeling out the undercurrent of the game.

Mainly I don't like how the current is flowing right now.

[OnTheMark]

Still don't understand how Venmar is out the townblock, but whatever.

Mind explaining how Venmar is in a townblock? All he did was claim how he gets mana. Don't see what's so towny about that, explecially since it's probably NAI
~Lumia

He's not. He keeps trying.

The only way he gets in is if RR flips red and people don't wanna push RR today for some inexplicable reason. So til then he's null.

VOTE: Skybird

Come tell me why I'm wrong on Sky peoples.

[OnTheMark]

I wanted to be scum because I'm stronger as scum. Why y no give me scum?

- Phosphophyllite

I don't get this, some of your recent best have been town games
Unless this is the wrong head then nvm
~Lumia

Phos is Yume.
Yume is an amazingly strong scum player.
I think the more she hydras with Mastina the better town player she becomes.
Like if the strength of a Mastina/Yume hybrid manifested itself it'd have the right to brag about it's torn muscle shirt from all the strength.

Why else did you think I offered?
- Phosphophyllite

I don't know. But that would be irrelevant as it's pregame.

Do you share Mastina's view RR is scum? I would love to hear your opinions more.

I'm probably gonna poke manna if the Skybird thing doesn't work with my block so far or if I don't like the current.

[OnTheMark]

The current seems to read Tibor manna and Sky....I still think RR is there but I could sideline that a bit.

[OnTheMark]

The current seems to read Tibor manna and Sky....I still think RR is there but I could sideline that a bit.

OTM, there is legitimately no chance of me being lynched.

Taly and Tibor are currently probable lynches with the way the game is going, skybird is maybe possible but there's no conviction behind any of the suspicion directed at her, and I have no idea who manna is.


^^ Also, I wrote up my response to your post in our hydra PT, but since nobody seems to care about your case or agree with you(so far), I won't bother posting it! <3

-Cerb

Noted. I am not trying to be a foghorn.

I am more calling things as I see them. You’re one of those people I need to sort early and the reactions to my case on you provide a lot.

Namely either A) You deserve to be in the townblock like I originally thought B) You are scum that has infiltrated early or C) You’re scum with one of Chara or Bee or D) this is a very long frustrating game.

I think those options will resolve in time and more I want people to take stances to help me sort you.

[OnTheMark]

That's not really how I expect someone who town reads another to disregard what they are saying. The Titus/Kiana question was more an after thought but I was mainly trying to get a feel for Cerb. (And yes I'm calling the slot Cerb until Drixx pops in. Deal.)

i would argue that scum RR pays

more

attention to how they answer questions, not less.

They did pay attention. The reaction was IDGAF. I wasn't saying they're not paying attention. It's that they are blatantly contradicting themselves. And I don't know where Cerb

actually

stands on mechanical issues or his reads. I want that to stop.

Also, you could actually ask me questions directly if you want to know where I stand on something. I think it's pretty clear where I stand on everything, and you're misreading a number of things I've said, either intentionally or due to some sort of bias, but I can certainly clarify stuff if you want to ask.

-Cerb

Do you value mechanics play or regular play?

Do you support the everyone vote for themselves plan?

Who are your top town and scumreads?

Let’s start there.

[OnTheMark]

I wanted to be scum because I'm stronger as scum. Why y no give me scum?

- Phosphophyllite

I don't get this, some of your recent best have been town games
Unless this is the wrong head then nvm
~Lumia

Phos is Yume.
Yume is an amazingly strong scum player.
I think the more she hydras with Mastina the better town player she becomes.
Like if the strength of a Mastina/Yume hybrid manifested itself it'd have the right to brag about it's torn muscle shirt from all the strength.

Why else did you think I offered?
- Phosphophyllite

I don't know. But that would be irrelevant as it's pregame.

Do you share Mastina's view RR is scum? I would love to hear your opinions more.

I'm probably gonna poke manna if the Skybird thing doesn't work with my block so far or if I don't like the current.

Don't know. I do however, share her view that MC is scummy. Then agains, considering that RR being scum multiple times in a row is a thing, I would consider it possible that the same thing happened again.

All that aside, I am not the best of player on the first two days or so, and I was hoping she could help me change that.

- Phosphophyllite

MC who is MC?

And I was hoping we’d talk some. If not on RR somewhere else. The best way to get better is by doing.

[OnTheMark]

it informs scum. it would be fine to claim later and confusion would easily be avoided that way.
anyway, it doesn't matter now.

this is my last, desperate call into an uncaring universe: please stop claiming, everyone.

Good thing I haven’t claimed then. Although this brings back memories. Please tell me I wasn’t townreading it too soon? I townread everything before this post.

How is this the post that killed your townread on Chara?
~Lumia

Asked and answered.

I didn’t like the repeated statements of don’t claim.

@Phos please talk about MC then. I would love it if you would talk more.

[OnTheMark]

As for RR, the patented Phosphophyllite test is that unless they bring actual read to the main thread, you hang them and you look happy doing it. Not into any PTs alone. Into the main thread. You cannot fail in this way.

- Phosphophyllite

+1 sub

[OnTheMark]

As for RR, the patented Phosphophyllite test is that unless they bring actual read to the main thread, you hang them and you look happy doing it. Not into any PTs alone. Into the main thread. You cannot fail in this way.

- Phosphophyllite

+1 sub

?

Like if you were a YouTube channel I would subscribe.

[OnTheMark]

it informs scum. it would be fine to claim later and confusion would easily be avoided that way.
anyway, it doesn't matter now.

this is my last, desperate call into an uncaring universe: please stop claiming, everyone.

Good thing I haven’t claimed then. Although this brings back memories. Please tell me I wasn’t townreading it too soon? I townread everything before this post.

How is this the post that killed your townread on Chara?
~Lumia

Asked and answered.

I didn’t like the repeated statements of don’t claim.

@Phos please talk about MC then. I would love it if you would talk more.

That feels rather petty. Like just because someone is repeating themselves doesn't make them scum. It just means they think it needs repeating.
~Lumia

Not sorry if it feels petty. I’ve been down this road once today with Beeboy. If you ask a question that can be answered by reading the thread I give you a flippant answer or quote it. If you fail to understand it then I get annoyed fail again wtf levels. I expect people to read the thread or in the case of having a hydra partner talk with them.

[OnTheMark]

I wish people would actually talk with me instead of at me.

And I think one of Taly or RR is scum. Not necessarily an either or just at least one. I don’t like what Cerb did there.

I also wish people would explain Tabor to me and talk about how Taly doesn’t interact with recent stuff.

What do you wanna talk about
~Maki

I need help sorting Tabor and how Taly seems to be deliberately post behind and not post anything relevant. See my prior post asking about it.

Tabor feels null they haven't really posted much of anything that makes me pull one way or another just fluff questions
Taly seemingly not being here at the gamestate when they post is an interesting take but posts alone make me cringe I'd call em a light sr.
Anything else on your mind? I'm curious why those 2 were the top 2 on your mind.
~Maki

Tabor is because I don’t see any Gamma posts and I can read Gamma much better I think. I am struggling to figure out brass and I want to get people talking about slots in general so I can get a feel for the unknowns. It’s weird people don’t talk that slot to me because it’s somewhar active.

Wait, who

are

you? There are very few people I know who have good faith in their ability to read me and one is already in this game and I don't think the other would be you.
~Lumia

I am OnTheMark.

Deal.

This reads like scum thinking he is caught for the wrong reasons.

VOTE: Tabor and Lumia

[OnTheMark]

@OTM Your scumread feels petty, not your response to me.
~Lumia

How can a scumread be petty?

Either it is genuine or it isn’t a read.

[OnTheMark]

@On the Mark, we love all Creatures.

I love all subtlety.

[OnTheMark]

FYI it’s public info my main got outed since the micro finished.

I am MathBlade aka Roundabout on MU. I am alting to improve my play on MS and take some MU things that work here and because I wanna have an account separate the more I go on a life journey. Since it’s public knowledge on MU I don’t think it’s fair not to announce it here but I was hoping that micro would last a bit longer damn.

[OnTheMark]

oh btw
OTM, you say I was feeling scumread for the wrong reason, but honestly activity is sometimes the right reason for me. As scum I have a tendency to flake out if I'm not into a game for some reason, whilst as town I might have more drive to try anyway. Creature can back me up on this, I had an offsite game where I was disengaged due to post volume + my "lover" partner (basically my mason if I had been town) not being around, but me finding an in-road and having an active partner made me more invested.

See now I am all kinds of confused. Tabor said not to scumread activity cases and now you are saying to do so. At this point it’s kinda clear y’all aren’t talking with each other and that could be causing some reasons for scumreading you.

VOTE: Skybird

[OnTheMark]

...right. i knew that. because i received one. sorry about that.

also, i counterclaim Venmar's mana-farming method. wagon me instead.

Ah, interesting. I think I'm okay with my vote being on Chara rather than Venmar right now.
Although what do you want to bet one of them is scum
~Lumia

If any of them are scum it’s Venmar. I keep waffling in town and null for avenger but it’s enough not to push him today I think.

[OnTheMark]

Hi, guys. I didn't want to jump in when I am in the middle of work, but I would like to point out, Gamma and I had discussed yesterday in our PT that I should kind of take the reigns early on before he comes with his big catch ups and posts. I was in Court this morning and am now at work and need to mull over what's been said, probably re read and whatnot.

-Tibor

Hey OTM I recall you got on my case for not stating I wasn't going to be in thread for a while. What about this?

I believe I responded to this? Tomorrow I can look it up.

[OnTheMark]

Right now, I feel like either Maid Cafe or OTM is scum, I'm not sure which one though leaning towards Maid Cafe. I didn't like 53 and 88 from them.

Tibor and Lumia ping town to me. That is a gut read.

Pre-edit: Thanks Phosphophyllite

worst post in the game

Really want to talk about this one! This is the one that makes me townread Skybird.

He get's his opinion in on the 1v1 between Maid and OTM, takes a stance, and backs it with a reasoning.

I don't see it as a terrible post at all.

It's what makes me scumread Sky.

Ironically this response makes me nullread you.

[OnTheMark]

i got slight scum vibes from shining dreamers push on maid cafe. it seemed like they started from the position "we're pushing maid cafe" rather than either "we are looking at evidence for maid cafe's alignment" or "we think maid cafe is scum, what evidence supports this" but nothing too strong atm
Venmar is a 100% gut read. it could be bias but i think he is at the very least genuine in his opinions, and am leaning town.
Maid Cafe is that i was on their side in the pregame arguments making me think they were town.
OTM is playing misguided town to a T. A lot of wrong pushes but they genuinely believe them and are trying to solve the game.

Where do you think I am right and where do you think I am wrong?

1v1 with maid cafe, early townbloccing. nothing you were right on springs to mind.

Interesting...None of those are actually pushes. Maid Cafe was pushing me for a perceived wording issue far as I can tell. I still legit don't get it.
However I don't see that as a wrong push...You said there was a lot of "wrong pushes" surely you can name one?

Between prior reasons (one cited) and how manna did a reasonless attack on me I am pretty sure something weird is going on with manna and Skybird. Enough to wanna see where it leads.

[OnTheMark]

Damn it. Now I am universally townread.

I fucking hate that.

[OnTheMark]

Hard-townreading OTM. His 1v1 with Tibor and Lumia, I believe it could be a TVS fight. I feel like T&L were trying to find all kinds of reaons to shade OTM, even trying to use activity as a scum indicator.

Now that OTM has revealed who he is and we can confirm his meta, he is the towniest person here.

How do you think Lumia asking him to prove his meta is "trying to find all kinds of reasons to shade" him? And Neither myself nor Lumia has even mentioned his activity level as AI.

Maybe try a reread so that you can get the facts straight.

-Tibor

Except Post 651 does mention it’s the right reason for Gamma.

Iconeum and Tibor SvS?

[OnTheMark]

FYI it’s public info my main got outed since the micro finished.

I am MathBlade aka Roundabout on MU. I am alting to improve my play on MS and take some MU things that work here and because I wanna have an account separate the more I go on a life journey. Since it’s public knowledge on MU I don’t think it’s fair not to announce it here but I was hoping that micro would last a bit longer damn.

Hi!

It turns out that I do recognize your name! But I don't know you personally! And neither you do, for me. So, it won't affect my ability to sort you as a "null entity"

Incidentally, before your main was revealed, I had to ask Titus to try to ID you because I wanted to know how strong you were, and if you were as powerful as you claimed; Titus plays on MU and DLP as well, so I figured she would be helpful with this. But, then, with some clues, I managed to guess that your identity anyway! Titus was still being mean and told me "I cannot confirm or deny" when I asked her if I was right... hmph!!

~Kiana

Interesting? I don’t alt hunt but I feel I need to acknowledge some of this. I don’t know who you are and won’t try to solve that.

However I didn’t claim to be powerful. I claimed to be good on MU and horrible here. There is a distinction. I was hoping Titus didn’t recognize me. Lovely.

Assuming I am not a valid answer who would you give a puppy to(neighbor) and who would you give a defense dog to (pgo) and who would you give a show dog (named useless dog) to?

Aka neighborize,pgo, named useless?

[OnTheMark]

Sorry for recgonizing you. :/

Use the neighbor on two townreads who bicker. See Denmark mafia. If only one, pick a hard townread.
Use the PGO on someone who screams town protective.
Hold the show dog until you need to prove your woofiness.

~Titus

I am asking you for what

your slot

would do.

I am not claiming to be able to do these things.

I am asking to get a firm grip on your slot.

Since you recognized me all bets are off. I just picked things out of my ass that puppies could do.

Oh and I hope you enjoyed your birthday.

[OnTheMark]

can anyone with more meta comment on almost50's entry? am i the only one that feels like he's under-contributing than what i'd expect?

It’s not like him as either alignment.

[OnTheMark]

Hard-townreading OTM. His 1v1 with Tibor and Lumia, I believe it could be a TVS fight. I feel like T&L were trying to find all kinds of reaons to shade OTM, even trying to use activity as a scum indicator.

Then why aren't you voting T and L?

~Titus

I is scared. We agree.

[OnTheMark]

you might as well not have answered me then

pedit: re:mark re:a50

I did answer you.

He is undercontributing but the pattern doesn’t match town him or scum him.

@Titus Iconeum wagon?

[OnTheMark]

VOTE: Iconeum

[OnTheMark]

Screw it, catch up post off the top of my head, go!

I don't understand how A50 does not have ANY reads as of his last post, and in my limited experiences with him, this seems off. He usually seems confident to me. This is absurd.
VOTE: Almost50

Micc is limited in posting, might be a townlean considering he has good content but I just feel like there's so little.

OTM is trying to gamesolve, he's town.

Venmar is either trolling or just doesn't care about anything. It's odd.

Iceconum feels like he is soft feeling who he can push. I don't like it.

Taly is another case of not having much going on. Like, avoiding doing anything too AI but did claim early.

I know the Kiana/Titus hydra seems like it's pretty okay but I need more for a full read.

Maid Cafe who is someone and Beeboy seems decent, not great.

Chara has said really weird shit, but I don't know it's play style outside of an ongoing game with it right now, may just be a weird thing.

Reasonably Rational seems to be good. They are thinking, they are reasoning, they are sharing with the class from what I recall.

Rest I can't remember having strong feelings either way at this point.

-Tibor

Yeah I can’t shake the feeling Tibor/Lumia is scum.

Chara would love your opinions

Oh and Titus your VCA gets wrecked I have been moving my vote like a hyperactive kid with too much sugar.

[OnTheMark]

Interesting Cerb doesn’t answer Titus’s Iconeum question:

@Cerb I skimmed your response.
My short answer to what I think is your main point I wasn’t going to get what I needed to read you and town reads were telling me to drop it.

My main response is where are your arguments that don’t involve my main in regards to my original case? Are there any? Or had you planned on outing my main in order to attempt to defend against the case?

[OnTheMark]

so far; Skybird's scumread on me is my favourite. i didn't think anyone would actually be bold enough to call that a scum gambit, as though i

actually

believed someone would go along with that.

I did not read it as a joke. U seemed pretty serious to me. Did u not see the responses? Of course you did. U commented on them.

No time to explain.

Call it gut if you like.

VOTE: Skybird

[OnTheMark]

oh and my Skybird scumread is because *reasons* *reasons* *reasons*

Yay for no explanation explanations

[OnTheMark]

wow. does Varsoon hate you?

Looking at my PM you could ask the same thing.

Riiip.

Oh and Almost50 once he confirms his vote is stolen as I believe him is very likely town. Can’t explain why. I want an explanation for something Skybird said and they know what I mean.

Pedit: Sarcasm doesn’t suit you Cerb.

[OnTheMark]

wow. does Varsoon hate you?

Looking at my PM you could ask the same thing.

Riiip.

Oh and Almost50 once he confirms his vote is stolen as I believe him is very likely town. Can’t explain why. I want an explanation for something Skybird said and they know what I mean.

Pedit: Sarcasm doesn’t suit you Cerb.

This is a really off-color remark for you. I know you dislike people outing role info randomly so why are you doing it?
~Lumia

I’m not

[OnTheMark]

RR, Shall we have our obligatory fight? Mark ruined the pressure on Iconeum.

@Mark, Your rapid votes pressure none of your targets atm. :/

I am not looking to bring pressure.

I am looking to be memorable.

[OnTheMark]

If pressure happens so be it. That would be great.

[OnTheMark]

I think Taly should copy Chara to see if the miller thing is fake.
Not really show how useful that is though since Chara could just be a scum miller

~B

Not a chance in hell.

Taly is in my I am not sure they are town list.

If they are scum they could easily lie.

[OnTheMark]

RR, Shall we have our obligatory fight? Mark ruined the pressure on Iconeum.

@Mark, Your rapid votes pressure none of your targets atm. :/

I am not looking to bring pressure.

I am looking to be memorable.

? You want to be remembered as the dude who pressured no one and spammed? The best way to be remembered...drive a wagon.

The pressure is working to get reactions I want. Remember I am doing what works on MU to draw out scum. Give me a chance please. If I feel sure enough I will drive but I wanna find the strings first

And so much I wanna say but can’t.

[OnTheMark]

Taly check, lynch Taly tomorrow? Boom! Or even today, if their ability can copy them today(which I actually imagine it can).

-Cerb

We’re not lynching someone just because they are a claimed investigative to confirm/deny someone widely townread.

[OnTheMark]

Not a chance in hell.

Taly is in my I am not sure they are town list.

If they are scum they could easily lie.

I mean let's run down the situations

Taly is scum:
Fakes a guilty - Oh no we caught scum what are we ever going to do
Fakes an "inno" - Roles were randed before alignment anyway and now Chara and taly are tied together
Truthful inno - Non issue

Taly is town:
Non Issue

~B

It’s more like assuming Chara is truthtellkng
Taly is town, mislynch town << This is an issue
Taly is scum, we learn nothing
Taly is town yet Miller doesn’t copy for some reason << we learn nothing and have mislynched town
A) Taly is blocked somehow
B) Chara is scum
C) Ability doesn’t copy passives learn nothing

Taly scum case it’s wine we ignore.

[OnTheMark]

Taly is town, mislynch town << This is an issue

What?

Cerb says Taly checks we Lynch Taly.

So if Taly is town that is a problem.

If we don’t Lynch Taly and someone checks Taly
We have no idea if Taly was scum or if the check is genuine or Chara is a Miller.

[OnTheMark]

Taly targets Chara, we lynch neither without a guilty.
Role coping a miller claim is a stupidly simple process thats really hard to mess up.

~B

why are we sacrificing Taly to check me in the first place? i don't need to be towncleared, i don't get mislynched. sure, it works if i'm lying, and lynching Taly to catch scum me would be fine, but if Taly claims i'm lying, you should lynch

me

.

or we could simply play the game.

Play the game.

Shall we vote on the Mark so he omguses one of us so he is remembered? That will start setting up Maid to get their vote back.

I will not omgus someone I don’t scumread.

And I do not do this whole mechanics bullshit.

Play the game.

[OnTheMark]

Ok. I am scum. You must vote claimed scum right?

You’re clearly being sarcastic.

You aren’t

actually

claiming it.

[OnTheMark]

turning this game into a public role-planning fest the

fastest

way to kill most of the fun i was planning to have. not to mention that isn't how Varsoon does things.

+1 sub

[OnTheMark]

i wonder if this is a sign of Mathblade and i finally being able to work

together

. i want to believe it's so.

You have no idea how much I want this.

[OnTheMark]

Oh look a miller isn't in the game with non alignment indicative roles.

Ya Mark your right fuck me for wanting to rolecop Chara I am fucking awful

~B

Does anyone outside Mark or Chara have a reason on why we shouldn't rolecop Chara's miller claim?

~B

Rolecopping chara's miller claim is 100% the optimal course to take. That data point should always be gathered, given the means to do so.

-Cerb

pedit: I'm really really annoyed right now Chara.

At this point yes. Do you disagree that enabling all roles is a strong course of action?

I completely disagree for reasons I can’t explain at work.

And lol I am getting better I had Chara figured out early

*Mini victory dance*

Yeah yeah I am sure I will suck at something terribad later. Let me have this lol

[OnTheMark]

Then I got mad because I feel like Mark is going against me for the sake of it.

~B

Nah it was because I knew the copy wouldn’t get useful shit as Chara was lying but I couldn’t figure out a decent way to explain while doing my job.

[OnTheMark]

I mean Mark.

Chara doesn't want me to have mana because they don't think I am town.
You don't want me to have abilities for the sake of it despite thinking I am town.

What impression do you think I am going to get?

~B

I don’t want you to go through antitown crap to get them. It becomes nigh on impossible to tell what is scum and what is town.

Just be patient.

[OnTheMark]

If I was scum and said I needed to mislynch town to get powers.
Or make all votes invisible?

Where is the line?

Just stay far far away.

[OnTheMark]

At Cerb

Poking Skybird because of reasons reasons reasons

[OnTheMark]

My other option is lock my vote, late in the day. Publically so scum still know I have mana.
On a natural wagon that won't just disband so I can get my mana and do something else.

Those are my 2 options.
~B

The real question is why do you feel you have to have mana right now?

[OnTheMark]

Just chill and go slow Beeboy.

[OnTheMark]

My other option is lock my vote, late in the day. Publically so scum still know I have mana.
On a natural wagon that won't just disband so I can get my mana and do something else.

Those are my 2 options.
~B

The real question is why do you feel you have to have mana right now?

So I can only gain mana publically.
And having power is better then not having power.
Help me or don't help me. You can disagree with my POV if you think a VT is stronger then an open PR that makes us vote oddly for 1 VC but I have trouble seeing you not realize why I just want mana.

~B

Suebeisjisjshwisbsisbaiqnqpzhuwkwbsiw

That is not a code that is raw frustration at my hands being tied.

[OnTheMark]

Shining Dreamers
Chara
Maid Cafe
Venmar
Dunnstral
Reasonably Rational
Baku and Munna

These slots are all town btw ^^

Agreed with all but the last three.

[OnTheMark]

Oh and throw Titus in there. She’s town.

[OnTheMark]

Uhm can I please say no for reasons I can’t explain?

[OnTheMark]

@OTM: I want to hear about Dunn and B&M.

-Cerb

Tonight.

Anyone catch what that post said before it was edited?

[OnTheMark]

"Unfortunately, all my test animals have died or escaped, so I shall be the final subject. I feel no fear. This is a momentous night."

-Laboratory notes, final entry

VOTECOUNT 1.07

Skybird (2):

OnTheMark, Chara

Maid Cafe (2):

Shining Dreamers, Skybird

Iconeum (1):

Bronya Zaychik

Tibor and Lumia (1):

Venmar

Taly (1):

Micc

Micc (1):

Maid Cafe

Not Voting (9):

Iconeum, baku and munna, Creature, Almost50, Reasonably Rational, SnarkySnowman, Taly, Dunnstral, Tibor and Lumia

With 17 Alive, it takes 9 to Lynch.
Deadline

:(expired on 2018-03-27 20:30:00)

There are currently no spells in play.

What did this say before the edit?

[OnTheMark]

Preemptive read list:

- Creature is Town, he's active enough
- Chara is likely Town, nothing scummy detected. Also going strong against claiming and the Miller claim support that read.
- Maid Cafe & OnTheMark are being stupid to each other, but it's kinda townie-stupid

Notes:

This is NAI of course, but I strongly sympathize with Taly in 217. At this point while I was reading up I was seriously considering ignoring everything and just sheeping Creature (my strongest TR who is also "said" to have great reads). In fact I did skim/skip over some posts from both ~B & OTM before and after that point.

EoP 11

Just waiting til you catch up.

[OnTheMark]

"Unfortunately, all my test animals have died or escaped, so I shall be the final subject. I feel no fear. This is a momentous night."

-Laboratory notes, final entry

VOTECOUNT 1.07

Skybird (2):

OnTheMark, Chara

Maid Cafe (2):

Shining Dreamers, Skybird

Iconeum (1):

Bronya Zaychik

Tibor and Lumia (1):

Venmar

Taly (1):

Micc

Micc (1):

Maid Cafe

Not Voting (9):

Iconeum, baku and munna, Creature, Almost50, Reasonably Rational, SnarkySnowman, Taly, Dunnstral, Tibor and Lumia

With 17 Alive, it takes 9 to Lynch.
Deadline

:(expired on 2018-03-27 20:30:00)

There are currently no spells in play.

What did this say before the edit?

@Maid Cafe —?

[OnTheMark]

For my townies this is for you

Cause sometimes you just feel tired, you feel weak
And when you feel weak you feel like you want to just give up
But you gotta search within you, you gotta find that inner strength
And just pull that shit out of you and get that motivation to not give up
And not be a quitter, no matter how bad you want to just fall flat on your face and collapse
'Til I collapse I'm spilling these posts long as you feel 'em
'Til the day that I drop you'll never say that I'm not voting 'em
'Cause when I am not then I'm a stop pinning them
And I am not town and I'm just not Mark again
Subliminal thoughts when I'm stop sending them
Scum are caught in webs spin and hock venom
Adrenaline shots of penicillin could not get the votin' to stop
Roleblockin is just not real enough
The criminal cop killing townblock filling a
Minimal swap to secret block millions of town listeners
You're probably coming with me, feel it or not
You're gonna feel it like I showed you the spirit of town lives in us
You hear it a lot, lyrics that shock, is it a miracle
Or am I just a product of pop fizzing up
For shizzle my whizzle this is the plot listen up
You Bizzles forgot Slizzle does not give a fuck
'Til the day comes off, till the lights go out
'Til my fingers give out, can't shut my mouth.
'Til the smoke clears out and my mouse perhaps
I'm a rip this shit till my bone collapse.
'Til the day comes off, till the lights go out
'Til my fingers give out, can't shut my mouth.
'Til the smoke clears out and my mouse perhaps
I'm a rip this shit till my bone collapse.
Mark is like magic there's a certain feeling you get
When you're real and you spit and people are feeling your shit
This is your moment and every single minute you spittin'
Trying to hold onto it 'cause you may never get it again
So while you're in it try to get as much shit as you can
And when your run is over just admit when it's at its end
'Cause I'm at the end of my wits with half the shit that gets in (thread)
I got a list, here's the order of my townlist that it's in;
It goes, Chara, Titus hydra, Creaute and Almost50
Shining Dreams, me, and of course then Beeboy and Maki
But in this game I'm the cause of a lot of worry
So when I'm not nightkilled the shit does not offend me
That's why you see me walk around like nothing's bothering me
Even though half you people got a fuckin' problem with me
You hate it but you know respect you've got to give me
Titus’s power dream like in the last century, Varsoon hit me
'Til the day comes off, till the lights go out
'Til my fingers give out, can't shut my mouth.
'Til the smoke clears out and my mouse perhaps
I'm a rip this shit till my bone collapse.
'Til the day comes off, till the lights go out
'Til my fingers give out, can't shut my mouth.
'Til the smoke clears out and my mouse perhaps
I'm a rip this shit till my bone collapse.
Soon as a verse starts I eat at a scum’s heart
What is he thinking? Enough to not go against me, smart
And its absurd how people hang on every word
I'll probably never get the props I feel I ever deserve
But I'll never be served my spot is forever reserved
If I ever leave earth that would be the death of me first
'Cause in my heart of hearts I know nothing could ever be worse
That's why I'm clever when I put together every verse
My thoughts are sporadic, I act like I'm an addict
I post like I'm addicted to info like I'm Google Earth
But I don't want to go forth and back in constant battles
The fact is I would rather sit back and bomb some scum
So this is like a full blown attack I'm launching at 'em
The track is on some battling raps who want some static
'Cause I don't really think that the fact that I'm a PR matters
A plaque of platinum status is whack if I'm not the baddest
'Til the day comes off, till the lights go out
'Til my fingers give out, can't shut my mouth.
'Til the smoke clears out and my mouse perhaps
I'm a rip this shit till my bone collapse.
'Til the day comes off, till the lights go out
'Til my fingers give out, can't shut my mouth.
'Til the smoke clears out and my mouse perhaps
I'm a rip this shit till my bone collapse.
Until the roof (Until the roof)
The day comes off (The day comes off)
Until my legs (Until my legs)
Give out from underneath me (Underneath me, I)
We will not fall
We will stand tall
Feels like no one can beat me

[OnTheMark]

OTM, do you have an question for me that I didn't answer?

RR, I answered your question and you have ignored it. What gives?

Nope.

You’re just scum

Pretty sure of it. Keep playing as if my vote doesn’t matter
Because no one seems to want to be an On The Mark follower.

[OnTheMark]

@OTM: I want to hear about Dunn and B&M.

-Cerb

Tonight.

Anyone catch what that post said before it was edited?

Dunn is null.

B&M is still scumlean would vote. I am wholly unimpressed with random’s answers. Of the people in the “would vote list” the only reason I hesitate is because Shiro made an effort to say V/LA and when he was scum before he didn’t.

[OnTheMark]

So Chara question: Do you townread Titus?

[OnTheMark]

haven't managed to get a read on Bronya yet.

What would you need to do to be able to get a read on the hydra?

[OnTheMark]

so far; Skybird's scumread on me is my favourite. i didn't think anyone would actually be bold enough to call that a scum gambit, as though i

actually

believed someone would go along with that.

I don't see what's wrong with Skybird's scumread on you. I'm not scumreading you, but I don't find the reasoning unjustified; your gambit itself was pretty absurd, and would usually provoke a negative response in people who weren't familiar with you.

I'm not sure exactly what the purpose of that discussion was, or what conclusions you obtained from the data as well. Care to share?

~kiana

Except if memory serves Skybird is familiar with Chara. Or is at least familiar with gambits from Mass Effect. The way Skybird is reacting doesn’t feel authentic.

[OnTheMark]

I don’t know what you mean by The Chara Fanclub but Skybird is kinda a wildcard. I don’t think they are of a similar playstyle as most.

Who would you townblock Kiana?

[OnTheMark]

Interesting. Join me on Skybird needing rope?

[OnTheMark]

Interesting. Join me on Skybird needing rope?

No, not scumreading Skybird.

You should join Titus on her Iconeum wagon. I've approved it by the way.

Meh. Iconeum is more if I have to. A consolidation wagon of sorts. I would vote there just not until deadline if no one comes onto the Skybird wagon. Pretty much I have a townblock and well everyone else.

Why do you not scumread Skybird?

[OnTheMark]

What do you think is more likely, I rngd a list of people to call town and Dunnstral ended up on it and was not aware he had 1 post.
Or I am legit just town who thinks Dunnstral is town as well.

~B

Oooooh oooooh I garcia

No more townblocky for you.

Option C you picked them strategically

[OnTheMark]

Can I just pretend the group of people below are all IC's, and go from there? Anybody think that leads to a loss a significant percentage of the time?

OnTheMark
Shining Dreamers (Hydra: Yume & Mastina)
Chara
Baku and Munna (Hydra: Randomidget & Shiro)
Maid Cafe (Hydra: Maki & Beeboy)
Bronya Zaychik (Hydra: Titus & Kiana Kaslana)

-Cerb

We have reservations about OnTheMark and Maid Cafe. Titus abstains for OtM, and since she is a MathBlade expert I will defer to her read there. Maid Cafe isn't all that great and is definitely the odd one out in this list.

I know I said I was willing to townblock OtM, but that's my read. Titus has full power to veto my read on OtM if necessary.

...Yay that means never being in the townblock...riiiip

Titus legit never townreads me lolz.

[OnTheMark]

Interesting indeed.

Kiana you wanna explain to me why you don’t scumread Skybird?

[OnTheMark]

Interesting indeed.

Kiana you wanna explain to me why you don’t scumread Skybird?

I can't explain the absence of a scumread. Why don't you explain your scumread on Skybird instead?

Actually you can.

An absence of a scumread is either a nullread or a townread start there which is it? And why?

And I will expand once you, not Titus, answers the question.

Man I wish I knew who you were.

[OnTheMark]

Not memorable. Where scum want to be.

And that’s an excellent way to not confront your reads damn.

[OnTheMark]

Right now, I feel like either Maid Cafe or OTM is scum, I'm not sure which one though leaning towards Maid Cafe. I didn't like 53 and 88 from them.

Tibor and Lumia ping town to me. That is a gut read.

Pre-edit: Thanks Phosphophyllite

If OTM is town (and that's quite possible) this flips scum all the time and I'll prob want to vote here

Skybird, Creature, RR, Shinding D townread.

Maid Café should respond to 237. I love how she bashes OTM for not responding, yet doesn't answer herself.

Maid scumreading right now. Maybe lyncher - lynchee with OTM. That would be hilarious

Why do you townread Skybird I assume it's for the post above because the other 3 posts are just greetings and considering skybird has prob the worst post in the game I'm interested to see your answer.
~Maki

Interesting.

You push Maid Cafe, even switch your vote to them, despite the fact Iconeum pushed Maid Cafe earlier in an unprovoked way. Usually means Iconeum isn’t scum with Maid Cafe. Furthermore it seems like you’re actively ignoring the currents of the person you are voting why?

When Skybird has had major pushes of your scumread they are unremarkable?

This is to Kiana not Titus.