VARSOON VARIETY HOUR : GAME SCRAPPED

[Maid Cafe]

Why is Mastina town for having a role in a role madness game?

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Also i thought Mastina's condition applied but the pay off was worse.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Mastina is scum btw

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Instead of sorting people who like or have anime avatars we should just policy lynch them.
Not only is complete rng going to be just as accurate as our reads but it will also make this game a better place.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I want Mastina or Yume to fully claim the ability they mentioned in thread btw.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

gomenasai it appears my partner got here a bit sooner than me. How may I be of service

[Maid Cafe]

oh bee obv towned for me already god bless
~M

[Maid Cafe]

Asking people to not vote at each day start is anti town?
How is it not?

~B

I am signing my posts like this btw Creature

[Maid Cafe]

I am not saying that claiming is anti town in that post.
I am saying asking us to not vote until a designated Mastina time is done is antitown if left unchecked. That is why I set a time based boundary in my post.

Like what?
"Here beeboy says claiming an antitown ability is antitown."
??????????

When did I say not to claim in that post? i just told her to do her stuff quickly.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Can you find me the post where I say claiming is anti town?

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I am not saying that claiming is anti town in that post.
I am saying asking us to not vote until a designated Mastina time is done is antitown if left unchecked. That is why I set a time based boundary in my post.

Like what?
"Here beeboy says claiming an antitown ability is antitown."
??????????

When did I say not to claim in that post? i just told her to do her stuff quickly.

~B

Oh look we went in a circle.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

key word in both posts
"There gets to a point"
"If left uncheck"

I.E. X is anti town if Y
Not X is anti town

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I'm part of this hydra too
and am the better head and maid
~M

[Maid Cafe]

I'm part of this hydra too
and am the better head and maid
~M

So you're scum with beeboy?

You've never played 1 game with me where you've tr me so yes
~M

[Maid Cafe]

I am going to claim something I prolly should have approached subtly but it heavily helps the town to target us with actions that grants our slots abilities/items/whatever you wanna call it.

When we gain an ability as a result of another player/Creature's spell or ability (which is all actions) we will "power up", well not exactly but I don't really want to claim that part.
But essentially just give us free stuff since it's more cost effective then giving other players stuff in a pretty meaningful way.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

The reason I say that is people will make assumptions based on their role PMs. This is a Varsoon game. That means heads out of mechanics and eyes on the prize lynching scum.

How do you say this stuff and town read mastina for having a role.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

^ Like I want you to expand on that read please.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

but an outright factual claim isn’t something she does as scum.

This is the part I kinda want you to expand on.
Why wouldn't she outright claim something as scum?
How do you know the claim in question is "factual"?

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I don't really want to like make this go on for longer so I'll just tell you a bit of info I am not sure if you acknowledged yet or not.
Our planeswalker cards were made before our alignments were randed.
If that is truly her role why would she holster the info.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

er longer then what it needs to be*

[Maid Cafe]

mastina's claim was anti town yes but anti town doesn't=scummy it was purely NAI she would've claimed that as mafia and town to help whatever side she's on gain an advantage the fact this is a topic of debate is silly
~Maki

[Maid Cafe]

I'm part of this hydra too
and am the better head and maid
~M

So you're scum with beeboy?

You've never played 1 game with me where you've tr me so yes
~M

I did in HP mash.

After I was clear but fair 1 game out of the...many

[Maid Cafe]

Finally, Flavor has no bearing on alignment. All alignments were generated AFTER roles were created.

If Mastina claimed something you'd want to hide as scum sure.
But "I need to do X to enable my role so please don't make this harder" isn't exactly one of those abilities.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

HI GUYS PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

I NEED TO BE THE 2ND LARGEST WAGON EACH DAY TO GET MANA. NOT VOTING ME IS AN ACTUAL SCUMCLAIM, THIS IS NOT A FARCE

thank you, cooperating with me so i can use my role would be greatly appreciated so i can break this game open

this is scum btw
~Maki

[Maid Cafe]

My thing with OMW is I don't really like how he refuses to acknowledge how Mastina hasn't actually put herself in any risk.
Like he keeps arguing the claim is true but not really how it makes the slot town.

She hasn't got rid of any of her options or put potential scum buddies in an awkward position. Like the arguments are all just statements that sound really nice is theory but there isn't really anything to back them up and I keep engaging him to try and figure out what that stuff is but then OMW just keeps going in circles.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Like I wasn't engaging about Mastina because I care about the Mastina read. I wanted to see how OMW would handle the discussion and I don't really like it?

~B

[Maid Cafe]

80% sure OMW is scum btw.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

OTM=You. I am not sure where OMW came from.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Sub out all previous uses of OMW with OTM.
Tyty.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

80% sure OMW is scum btw.

~B

What grounds for this?

-Tibor

I don't really like how when they argued with me it was from the POV of someone just arguing to prove there point and not really someone who is thinking about mine or there own posts.
The stubborn nature is something I'd ignore for the most part but they are also ignoring half the statements I made but was willing to argue me on issues that mostly aren't relevant so I don't think that there intention is to sort me even if they give 0 shits about readjusting there mastina read.

Also the buddying all the posters thing is also scummy af.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Mark isn't sorting they are buddying people and calling them town.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Your still selectively replying to my posts.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Call it selective as much as you wish. If you feel I need to address something in particular call it out.

You've replied to a fuck ton of my posts but have yet to do so in any kind of meaningful way.

I mean my general issue is I confronted you on a read.
You didn't really attempt to read my posts, or think about your own while engaging me.
I don't think you've recognized a single thing I've said about Mastina, and even if you don't care about anything I have to say on the topic you haven't attempted to sort me once so like your posts are kinda accomplishing nothing.

And your also ignoring my arguments I want you to engage but are responding to the most random shit I post. Like I post something about your reads and approach to me and you respond to the double post saying that this is an issue with your playstyle ignoring my post directly above the one you replied to.
Like I refuse to believe you think this read is based on play style because that requires you to ignore a post directly above ones your reading.

[Maid Cafe]

You in the past 4 pages have yet to answer the simplest questions.

Why do you think Mastina is making a risk here as scum?
Why do you think Mastina would be forcing her buddies to play around her claim?
What are your thoughts on role being made before alignments?

Like it isn't even about the answers to the question at this point. Your approach is just sketchy af here, your misrepresenting what is going on in the thread. you aren't talking about why your town reads are town and you aren't trying to avoid actual engagement, you just want to bicker.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

er.
I meant you are avoiding actual engagements and all your are your mainly just bickering when you interact with people.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Your line of inquiry is confusing to me beeboy. Either I'm misunderstanding something about the position OTM is holding, or you are.

-Cerb

I am saying that Mark hasn't actually done anything this game.
The town block thing has really 0 explained reads or attempts to sort people and is just Mark looking busy and buddying people. Like Mark's townbloc thing is a super closed discussion that Mark is trying to keep that way which is something I don't like. (Like look at the response to Venmar)
And throughout interacting with me, Mark hasn't actually done shit outside shade me and call me scum for really shallow reasons. Which again just feels like mark trying to keep really closed discussion while looking busy.

Like Mark went out of his way to ignore replying to my read and said it was a playstyle issue.
I don't really care about the answer to the questions in all honesty. I just want to see how people approach engagements and that is what is important.

Like reading the post and showing he thought about it in anyway what so ever. Mark obviously cares enough to reply to my 1 line posts so I don't really see why all my other posts about him would be something Mark gives 0 shits about.

Like I said I don't care about the answers to the questions I just think the approach is what makes him scum.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Answered mentioned investigative roles

You haven't mentioned investigative roles this game a single time?

~B

[Maid Cafe]

What does that have to do with investigative roles?

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I mean I don't know why you are getting snarky.
You really didn't mention investigative roles in anyway.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I told you that you never backed up your statement. You said you backed it up and your answer involved investigative roles which it didn't involve.

You then proceed to answer my question by rephrasing it.

Me: "Why do you think Mastina would be forcing her buddies to play around her claim?"
You: "So as scum she’d be pigeonholing her buddies."

How is she doing this?

~B

[Maid Cafe]

hey, this argument is pointless, can we nix it. you're talking around each other. Mark's underlined bit means investigative roles to them, and his logic on this has been consistent. i don't think any more semantics are going to help.

I mean Mark keeps changing the argument so that's how it reads.
Mark hasn't explained anything they've said this game and he actively refuses to do so.

"How has Mastina committed to a claim"
"How has Mastina limit what her scumbuddies can do"
"If roles are made before alignment how is it AI when it could easily just be her real role"

Like these aren't questions that take 10 pages to answer.
Mark keeps answering by rephrasing the question.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

"How has Mastina committed to a claim" (As in Mastina claimed nothing so far)
"How has Mastina limited what her scumbuddies can do"
"If roles are made before alignment how is it AI when it could easily just be her real role"

@Chara

Show me the answers to these questions.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

If you let Mark go in circles for 10 pages while he actively ignores answering my basic questions and let him get away with it, I am not trying anymore.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

"How has Mastina committed to a claim"
"How has Mastina limit what her scumbuddies can do"
"If roles are made before alignment how is it AI when it could easily just be her real role"

There is no excuse that Mark can't answer this shit.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

That's not an investigative claim?

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Did it seriously take you 4 pages to say you thought Mastina claimed an investigative role.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Ok all your logic is bad but it's vaguely there.
Now the 3rd question.

Since Varsoon essentially designed 17 town roles then made 4 people scum.
Why exactly is that risky to claim given it's truthful regardless of her alignment?

~B

[Maid Cafe]

We almost made it down the 3 questions I asked on page 4.
Only 1 left!

~B

[Maid Cafe]

How the fuck is claiming a condition committing to claiming a role.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

If I say "My role can't be used if I am ever set to L-2" an example of a condition for a role.
How exactly does that limit what I can claim in the future.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

So Mark what exactly in your own words not Mastina's, did Mastina claim she could do.
I read that she claimed that she was "powerful" and needed people to not vote her.

Roleblock is powerful, 2-shot Cop is powerful, Jailkeeper is powerful, whatever cards are in my hand that can be drawn by any player with my color(s) is also powerful.
She didn't limit herself at all.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

It's super like duh,

but you SPECIFICALLY referred to nonexistent posts

mentioning investigatives as your response to maid cafes line of inquiry. That's what's weird to me. Not the reasoning.

I do think you're not giving mastina enough credit, and overestimating how much the claim mastina made would limit her as scum if untrue, but it's a reasonable perspective.

-Cerb

T H A N K Y O U
It's not he failed to try and answer is that he is saying he answered in ways he didn't.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

What sorting has Mark done this game?

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Like let's go to 66% of my read and forget about Mastina for the rest of the day
This line of reasoning can hardly be discussed as well so we are all lucky!

I don't think Mark tried to sort me but was randomly bickering with me regardless. Like pointing out typos but not my arguments.
I don't think Mark's townblock shit has any real sorting it's just calling people town, like I can go through his ISO and find plenty of people in his townblock that aren't explained.

Mark as town is a lot more aggressive and wouldn't just buddy people and try and townblock for unexplained reasons since Mark would try and communicate his read even if no one understands it.
Like Mark as town buddies like 50% of the time and it is more subtle and is based on liking people personally and wanting too cooperate or due to having stronger reads.

Mark as scum is this shit which is just buddying and posturing hardcore.

I am saying I know Mark's main but idk if I wanna dive into the meta too much.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I got mad while talking about Mastina, my point is Mark was ignoring a lot posts I was making but poking at really tiny stuff.
Like I got distracted my read isn't the mastina shit.

I think the Mastina stuff further shows a lack of sorting but it isn't my entire read and it never would be.

It's the above. Mark would buddy and Mark would try and townblock as town but not in the way he is doing this game.
It's just the 0 explanation random posturing buddy stuff isn't how he'd do it. But he'd do it as scum.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I've seen you play on MU.

I just really think it's different, it's not like "Hey town cerb how is it hanging let's town bloc up"
It's more like "Yay Cerb did X and is town, how's it going let's townbloc up".
Like you'd be communicating your reads as you go in a more meaningful way then just outright stating them.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

To brace for the incoming meta arguments I mean you can sub out the word meta and this is a read I'd mostly hold for anyone.
The way Mark is posturing and not really talking about a lot of his reads is just scummy.
I have meta to back it up but like even without it I think it's something you can identify.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Tibor has posted no meaningful content not that it really matters. Thank god it seems like Bee and mastinas pissing contest is over so I can post now
~Maki

[Maid Cafe]

Hopefully, I can repress these posts into the back of my mind and wait for day 1 to start because all this buzz talk just makes me roll my eyes
~Maki

[Maid Cafe]

I need to ask Bee what he's faking and what he really believes sometime soon. When I said "you do you" I didn't expect this. The only solid read I've got is Creature is town and on the mark feels scummy but that's due to meta and nothing by play so I don't wanna go down that path for now
Would also vote RR for my own personal gain but I can't vote atm sigh
~Maki

[Maid Cafe]

Why did I have to hydra with Beeboy the one game he plays so far out of his scumrange that when I say it I'm "bias" cause I'm his hydra partner reee
~Maki

[Maid Cafe]

Mastina's claim is anti-town but NAI?...

Yes, why do you say it like it's not? You can do anti town actions with good intent in mid or you can just be scum who did something anti town the overall thing is anti town I believe her emotions were genuine when she said her power was "game breaking" for scum or town? We don't know. Also how the fuck do people have so many reads. Oh the fact I don't have Chara as obv town yet makes it highly likely their scum btw but take that with a grain of salt
~Maki

[Maid Cafe]

Oh the fact I don't have Chara as obv town yet makes it highly likely their scum btw but take that with a grain of salt
~Maki

<3 you Maki.

<3 you too qt

[Maid Cafe]

Right now, I feel like either Maid Cafe or OTM is scum, I'm not sure which one though leaning towards Maid Cafe. I didn't like 53 and 88 from them.

Tibor and Lumia ping town to me. That is a gut read.

Pre-edit: Thanks Phosphophyllite

If OTM is town (and that's quite possible) this flips scum all the time and I'll prob want to vote here

Skybird, Creature, RR, Shinding D townread.

Maid Café should respond to 237. I love how she bashes OTM for not responding, yet doesn't answer herself.

Maid scumreading right now. Maybe lyncher - lynchee with OTM. That would be hilarious

Why do you townread Skybird I assume it's for the post above because the other 3 posts are just greetings and considering skybird has prob the worst post in the game I'm interested to see your answer.
~Maki

[Maid Cafe]

i don't think im sheeping anyone actually, lol. if i am its a pure coincidence since i just kind of skimmed the thread and those two reads were the ones that jumped out at me.

im townreading chara because of this post:

like this isn't AI. maybe it is but i wouldn't know how to look at it. i hate reading it, not because it's noise (i really don't care about noise), but because i can see what both of you are trying to say. but there's no clear communication, just a series of misinterpretations. that's why it's taking pages and pages to explain simple things on, now, both fronts.

which just screams "hey i'm town, slap that on me pls". chara here is giving genuine, well-intentioned guidance and structure to the discussion, and combined with chara's discussion regarding claims, which again feel like he's trying to steer us solely into town's benefits, i think chara is coming from a strong townie mindset

maid cafe is town because im mirror telling them regarding their points on onthemark and because i think their questioning of mark in general was a productive exercise of scumhunting

While I disagree with Venmars conclusion this feels genuine regardless. Take back my sr town lean
Well that was easy once I can fully be awake
~Maki

[Maid Cafe]

and that would be why i believe iconeum is scum.

vote em with me and I'll only buddy you half as hard as I normally do as

scum

town

[Maid Cafe]

All alignments were generated AFTER roles were created.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I wish people would actually talk with me instead of at me.

And I think one of Taly or RR is scum. Not necessarily an either or just at least one. I don’t like what Cerb did there.

I also wish people would explain Tabor to me and talk about how Taly doesn’t interact with recent stuff.

What do you wanna talk about
~Maki

[Maid Cafe]

I wish people would actually talk with me instead of at me.

And I think one of Taly or RR is scum. Not necessarily an either or just at least one. I don’t like what Cerb did there.

I also wish people would explain Tabor to me and talk about how Taly doesn’t interact with recent stuff.

What do you wanna talk about
~Maki

I need help sorting Tabor and how Taly seems to be deliberately post behind and not post anything relevant. See my prior post asking about it.

Tabor feels null they haven't really posted much of anything that makes me pull one way or another just fluff questions
Taly seemingly not being here at the gamestate when they post is an interesting take but posts alone make me cringe I'd call em a light sr.
Anything else on your mind? I'm curious why those 2 were the top 2 on your mind.
~Maki

[Maid Cafe]

I play aether vial btw

I put a counter on our aether vial.



~B

[Maid Cafe]

@Judge/Varsoon Can I use the former to refer to you this game?

[Maid Cafe]

Cerb inspired me to improve this game.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Yay!

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Mastina I think your logic is kinda flawed in 2 regards.

1) Meta/Ancedote type stuff doesn't really work cross players on such a small sample. + Your kinda just wrong in spotting my intentions and kinda aren't really taking into consideration I could have got frustrated and reeled myself in considering you thought my overall case was logical after I stepped back and summed it up.
2) I think I am a very rough player to read day 1, but like mid day 2 I am usually easy af to read.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Generally I don't really have anything I want to do atm.
Kinda stumped on who I want to vote so I am going to roll with what Maki wanted to do.

I don't really want to vote Skybird, I tone read 1 post as town but it's mostly due to how I think I can more comfortably reading her compared to other players in this game.

VOTE: Ico

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Mastina I think your logic is kinda flawed in 2 regards.

1) Meta/Ancedote type stuff doesn't really work cross players on such a small sample. + Your kinda just wrong in spotting my intentions and kinda aren't really taking into consideration I could have got frustrated and reeled myself in considering you thought my overall case was logical after I stepped back and summed it up.
2) I think I am a very rough player to read day 1, but like mid day 2 I am usually easy af to read.

~B

Actually that could have been Yume posting.
But same thing generally applies.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I don't think Scum Mastina goes.
"I am going to go setup a beeboy lynch for you Yume"
a lot of the time so I lean town on the slot because of that.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Is your read on Chara based on meta?

Me: Taly directed a thing at you.
Maki: It's not meta.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

ah classic kiana posting <3
~Maki

[Maid Cafe]

Chara is in my pocket maybe not right now...but they will be they always are.
I'm not scum thankfully but if you impress me enough I could be of service to you ^_~
~Maki

[Maid Cafe]

Maki who do you think is the towniest player in this game and why?

And tell me your read on Dunnstral.

Dunn is Null
Venmar and Creature are the most town players because creature can't fake a scum game and vermars answers feels genuine even if I don't agree with some of the answers he has

[Maid Cafe]

wtf I wanna be in the town block
~Maki

[Maid Cafe]

Otm has went from scummy to towny so I'm putting them at null
Meta suggests scum but I feel like some of the sorting they've done feels real so I'll put them at null

[Maid Cafe]

Right now, I feel like either Maid Cafe or OTM is scum, I'm not sure which one though leaning towards Maid Cafe. I didn't like 53 and 88 from them.

Tibor and Lumia ping town to me. That is a gut read.

Pre-edit: Thanks Phosphophyllite

worst post in the game

[Maid Cafe]

Being anti town doesn't make it scummy nor does it make it towny it's the reasons behind it
but saying anti town and scummy are the same thing are incorrect
@Ico
Pedit: I will not out there alt.

[Maid Cafe]

Don't know love
~Maki

[Maid Cafe]

Hmm, then that means it's a player I haven't played with before. My completed games all have Maki in it because she's so awesome! <3

(Actually, just a coincidence. But part where Maki is awesome is true.)

I-I like you too.

[Maid Cafe]

Chara I agree with your theory but its kinda flawed since it doesnt really work when you are aware of it.
Like a policy lynch wont help town, a well structured and discussed lynch even on town is generally a lot more pro town then actually lynching scum day 1. I agree with your theory but it doesnt work as a goal.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

These last few pages were literal garbage btw and I stopped reading them.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

The reason I say that is people will make assumptions based on their role PMs. This is a Varsoon game. That means heads out of mechanics and eyes on the prize lynching scum.

How do you say this stuff and town read mastina for having a role.
~B

How do you say this stuff and yet post post 88?

I have by no means suggested I should be town read for that post so not really the same.

Also I didnt want to reply to that since I saw it as a jab and not a question.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I don't think role pms that were made before people's alignments work that way.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I don't really think we should try and solve this game from a role/role usage POV, especially day 1.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

This game was literally advertised as.
"You may leave this game thinking it was bastard"

~B

[Maid Cafe]

@everyone also important note, if you have the ability to kill another player please opt to use another card if possible.
There are 8 planes to see across 8 days and I want to visit all of them.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

hat was specifically noted with regards to the different planes, not the roles, so I don't think that point is relevant to this line of discussion.

-Cerb

Generally, I think Planes would effect roles and balance regarding them

~B

[Maid Cafe]

talk to me plz ppl (this is rando btw incase that wasn't obvious)

Sup, I am town hbu fam?

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I town read Venmar.
Oops, I can pull posts up later need be.

~B

pedit: that is a town post I think.

[Maid Cafe]

Btw, I got a PM telling me my vote was stolen

Interesting af, also I look forward to your posts tonight!

~B

[Maid Cafe]

VOTE: ReasonblyRational

Ooh look what you made me do. Look what you made me do.

Can you explain this read.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I didn't get a pm asking me to join, wtf.
I was just awake at 4am looking at game announcements.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

VOTE: Chara

Chara can you vote us I want mana?

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I am claiming that if you vote me I can generate mana.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Idc I just need someone to vote me who currently has 0 votes on them.
Then I need to cross vote them.
Unless I am misreading my role pm.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

UNVOTE:

>I need to cross vote someone with 0 votes
>votes chara.

Thx m8.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

CHARA I NEED MANA, WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO SAY.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

scum knowing who has mana is bad. scum knowing how we get mana is bad. this is a Varsoon game.
will someone listen eventually? :<

There is no magic mechanic that enables you to steal someones mana and Varsoon is trying to stay true to the real game.
I have an idea about what happened to A50 but I won't talk about it.

I think everyone can gain mana more or less easily?

~B

[Maid Cafe]

i'm not talking about stealing mana, i'm talking about informing scum nightkills, and scum power use.

and how Varsoon hates massclaims, explicitly warned us against flavour claims, etc.

maybe it means nothing. but i can guarantee Varsoon did not design this game so that it's a good idea for everyone to claim and coordinate mana stacking.

and this hasn't even touched on the fact i'm not townreading you, so why should i be giving you mana? :<

I dunno people said this about mass claiming not breaking both GiF magical girl games and both got broken via mass claim if people went for it.

I think generally its more pro-town if we all just openly try and get mana. If there are conflicting ways to generate it then we lose maybe 3 people casting spells. Vs me and Maki trying to play like a jester get voted, cross vote under a specific condition then hope that we can walk it off.

Like being hidden about mana generation I think hurts town, I think the game was made so most of us can generate mana, Varsoon wouldn't design cards people can't realistically use and by hiding how i get mana me and maki just get taken off our cards 9/10 times.
Lot's of people can still hiddenly generate mana and don't need to claim conditions.

Scum knowing I always act tonight is strictly better than me not acting.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Not voting RR today or in any early day btw.
GLGL wolves.

~B

pedit: I think my second paragraph explains why I need to claim cause like acting at night and having scum knowing is stricly better then playing like a jester and probably not acting.

[Maid Cafe]

The notion venmar shouldn't claim is the notion you think he should play like a jester and naturally become the 2nd largest wagon.
The notion I shouldn't claim is the notion scum knowing I can act at night is worse then us not acting at night.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I mean if you really think me trying to play like a jester so a player with 0 votes places a vote on me, so I can cross vote and then I bs why I opted to cross vote is good play to stay hidden then I think you are as misguided as what you think I am.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

i don't know anything about magic. are these cards fake, or non-tourney legal, or something?

Those are real.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I mean tell me playing like a jester was good play for me when I have a stupidly simple condition upon claiming. You can tell me that all you want but your wrong.
I am not advocating other people claim, it's correct given trying to secretly achieve my condition is stupidly anti town and distracting given I have to try and bait people into voting me in order to achieve it.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

There is no magic mechanic that enables you to steal someones mana and Varsoon is trying to stay true to the real game.

after looking some more, there are certainly cards that do this besides the ones i posted.

anyway. you're outed, it's done. let's not all follow along, though.

should i be townreading Maid Cafe for this? they were nullscum before but now i'm musing.

I'd town read me for claiming a role that I'd have regardless of my alignment.
+1

~B

[Maid Cafe]

So Mark in regards to your case on RR.


I think generally mechanics based things aren't alignment indicative as people don't tend to fake that kind of stuff very easily. It's really easy to just talk about how people should play mechanics regardless of your alignment since your opinions hold game by game. Your alignment has no impact on how you think mechanics should be optimally played nor is it hard to think about. It's not like a case where you need to spot shit and think about in a way that can be hard as scum.
So I don't think his comments on mechanical play indicate his alignment at all.

I don't think he is focusing too heavily on mechanics in a problematic way either.

So yeah I don't think the mechanics stuff indicates his alignment and I don't really agree he was too mechanics focused early?
I am sure I missed replying to some stuff but I wanted to keep my reply short.


~B

[Maid Cafe]

Me and Cerb have flavor knowledge and flavor is something that apparently matters a lot this game.
I think we pose a threat to a scum team with 0 magic knowledge.


~B

[Maid Cafe]

Me and Cerb have flavor knowledge and flavor is something that apparently matters a lot this game.
I think we pose a threat to a scum team with 0 magic knowledge.


~B

Eh. I think a scum team with 0 magic knowledge could gain enough knowledge to figure stuff out once spells come out and people see how different colors are being represented mechanically.

-Cerb

I think based on a google search it's stupidly hard to differentiate between things that exist in magic and things that actually get played, used and were liked.
Like for example "mana stealing" is something you can find really old cards of that do it (i only found 1)

The best you can find now is cards that mind control you or cards that steal permanents which are inherently different then mana stealing since that wouldn't effect already generated mana or a planeswalker ability (our mana isn't generated through lands this game it's through this). But a google search would suggest that mana stealing is something you could realistically fake claim.


/shrug idk if I wanna discuss flavor too much

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Like i could discuss other examples but I don't want to inspire fake claims.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I have some mega fucking spicy pocket reads I am not sharing atm btw.
Super spicy.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

You don't strongly town read me yet?



~B

[Maid Cafe]

@judge what is your favorite magic deck?

*grabs ear*
Get back in here
~Maki

[Maid Cafe]

I am taking a break from this game mostly today.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Is it bad I town read Dunnstral for the timing of his "hi" post?
Because I do and according to Maki that's really stupid

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I also have this weird issue.
I should be town reading Titus but i am not.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

On what basis should you be townreading Titus? I can understand having a read one way or another on the other head, but not Titus, given the utter banality of their contributions so far.

-Cerb

I can normally get some kind of read on Titus by now is mainly what I was saying.
It isn't really an issue with her posts and if it was I am not sure if it would actually indicate her alignment.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

VOTE: Micc

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Have there been any other games with her where you were this ignorant at this stage?

Not that I can remember.

What are your thoughts on Micc so far?

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Bronya what are your thoughts on Micc so far?

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Thoughts on Iconeum?

I thought he was town but I forgot why, I'll give him a look again.
Maki said he was scum and I didn't mind rolling with her read.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

What is the spiciest read that you guys currently have?
Confidence doesn't really matter I am just curious.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

my spiciest read is my scumread on you two.

[Maid Cafe]

MC was stating earlier that he needs someone with no votes to vote them so they could get mana. (Post 566) That has been the case for them with Shining Dreamers since the first vote count. So why have they not voted SD and "gained" some mana?

Because it doesn't work exactly the way I described it.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

That was disappointing.

-Cerb

[Maid Cafe]

Hmm our mana ability doesn't work the way I thought it did.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

So I need 2 wagons that consist of 2 people cross voting.
Then I need 1 of those wagons to be bigger then the other.

P1 - P2, P3
P2 - P1
Would be valid but P1-P3 cannot be me.

Then I need everyone voting P1 to unvote.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Ty in advance.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Then I need everyone voting P1 to unvote.

Oh I need to bold text in thread before this happens.
This is an option step that lets us regain access to our vote.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

And you can also gain extra abilities when people give you stuff.

This is probably why gaining mana is so annoying lol.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I also can't generate mana through private means which is kinda interesting lol.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I think Taly should copy Chara to see if the miller thing is fake.
Not really show how useful that is though since Chara could just be a scum miller

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Not a chance in hell.

Taly is in my I am not sure they are town list.

If they are scum they could easily lie.

I mean let's run down the situations

Taly is scum:
Fakes a guilty - Oh no we caught scum what are we ever going to do
Fakes an "inno" - Roles were randed before alignment anyway and now Chara and taly are tied together
Truthful inno - Non issue

Taly is town:
Non Issue

~B

[Maid Cafe]

2) I target someone with my Planeswalker ability. For 2 phases, I gain Mana the same way they would, and I gain their abilities. I can only do this once per dayphase.

"And I gain there abilities"

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Passive abilities are still abilities.
The sample role pm shows one actually.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Taly is town, mislynch town << This is an issue

What?

[Maid Cafe]

Taly is town, mislynch town << This is an issue

What?

Taly is scum, we learn nothing

Nothing happening isn't a negative result.
It's a neutral result.

Taly is town yet Miller doesn’t copy for some reason << we learn nothing and have mislynched town

This would be a moderator lie if Taly is told he copies passive abilities.

A) Taly is blocked somehow

We move on.

B) Chara is scum

We catch scum or learn the miller claim is legit and roles were made before alignment rands.
Nothing bad occurs in this situation.

C) Ability doesn’t copy passives learn nothing

I have faith in our fellow players abilities to ask Varsoon simple questions about there role pm.

[Maid Cafe]

Cerb says Taly checks we Lynch Taly.

We don't do this unless a guilty result appears.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I have at 0 points in time have ever suggested that we lynch anyone without a guilty.

0 points in time.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Taly targets Chara, we lynch neither without a guilty.
Role coping a miller claim is a stupidly simple process thats really hard to mess up.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

And fun fact.
It is playing the game.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

All alignments were generated AFTER roles were created.

It won't clear you so your good!

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Fuck off.
Rolecopping a miller claim isn't mechanics bullshit.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Varsoon designed this game so we use the tools that are given to us.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Does anyone outside Mark or Chara have a reason on why we shouldn't rolecop Chara's miller claim?

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Oh look a miller isn't in the game with non alignment indicative roles.

Ya Mark your right fuck me for wanting to rolecop Chara I am fucking awful

~B

[Maid Cafe]

That would be correct.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I mean your claim wasn't possible.
I kinda just wanted to see what happened if I attempted to force a rolecop on you.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Then I got mad because I feel like Mark is going against me for the sake of it.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

and what did you get out of that?

I had a scum reaction in mind that you didn't do.
I think your slot is town but not for this.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Why didn't you retract sooner?
What did you hope to gain by temporarily holding onto the claim?

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I mean Mark.

Chara doesn't want me to have mana because they don't think I am town.
You don't want me to have abilities for the sake of it despite thinking I am town.

What impression do you think I am going to get?

~B

[Maid Cafe]

what was the scum reaction?

Not relevant at this stage.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

*raises hand*

Thrice actually.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Having 3 people that aren't voting temporarily vote in a certain why isn't remotely comparable to lynching town. It really just doesn't impact the game, 3 people can't vote for like 1 VC, 48 hours into the day.
Like even compared to Venmars mine is more or less a non factor it just requires a lot of cooperation.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

My other option is lock my vote, late in the day. Publically so scum still know I have mana.
On a natural wagon that won't just disband so I can get my mana and do something else.

Those are my 2 options.
~B

[Maid Cafe]

I mean Chara faking a miller claim is fine, like when I have done it to cover for stuff.
And if you really think you needed to not be NKd in this game then whatever.

I claimed miller as cop so I wouldn't get NKd (I got vigged and its my fault for not retracting when I saw the vig in play)
I claimed miller as mason to avoid getting investigated.

But like as soon as you saw the public role thief not retracting the claim created risk for the town.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I don't think it's on Cerb if he truly wasted an action on you. Like when I got vigged as a cop it wasn't on the vig it was on me.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

My other option is lock my vote, late in the day. Publically so scum still know I have mana.
On a natural wagon that won't just disband so I can get my mana and do something else.

Those are my 2 options.
~B

The real question is why do you feel you have to have mana right now?

So I can only gain mana publically.
And having power is better then not having power.
Help me or don't help me. You can disagree with my POV if you think a VT is stronger then an open PR that makes us vote oddly for 1 VC but I have trouble seeing you not realize why I just want mana.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Anyway once I get mana I want to lynch Micc.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I've seen far worse gambits don't worry.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

i'm taking advice from both Ellibereth and Almost and creating a sort of hellish synthesis.

I can confirm the Eli half of this.
I can also confirm that Eli would suggest to Chara to play anti town to avoid being NKd.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

My last post was for Cerb, I can confirm that isn't outside the realm of things that I could see Chara doing as town.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

If Chara isn't scum reading me anymore or never was I am going to be kinda sad.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Likely.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I think my role was designed so I couldn't do this.
And I had to use my role the way it was intended and lock my vote on the smaller of 2 real cross voting wagons.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Shining Dreamers
Chara
Maid Cafe
Venmar
Dunnstral
Reasonably Rational
Baku and Munna

These slots are all town btw ^^

[Maid Cafe]

Also, please confirm exactly how your mana generation works before anything is done. Your prior statements lead me to believe that you've done that already, but just want to make sure you've received/given an explicit example of actions to take to generate mana for yourself.

-Cerb

So if 2 people are cross voting and 1 wagon is bigger then another I can commit to voting the smaller wagon and my vote will be locked into place (I have to bold this in thread), I get mana at this moment in time.

If the smaller wagon ever becomes bigger my vote is unlocked (this does not effect mana gain). Most optimal way to do this is we just get 3 people. Least optimal way is me locking onto the first wagon I see that meets these conditions.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

My favorite set to draft was Khans of Tarkir.

[Maid Cafe]

Catching up from page 30 fucking kill me now
Chara is lock town btw like if you ever try to lynch that I will haunt you (I was told about the gambit)
~Maki

[Maid Cafe]

Catching up from page 30 fucking kill me now
Chara is lock town btw like if you ever try to lynch that I will haunt you (I was told about the gambit)
~Maki

IJS, if we get to a 3p lylo with myself, chara, and someone else, chara is probably going to die.

-Cerb

gonna have to make sure you die before Lylo then.
~Maki

[Maid Cafe]

oh btw
OTM, you say I was feeling scumread for the wrong reason, but honestly activity is sometimes the right reason for me. As scum I have a tendency to flake out if I'm not into a game for some reason, whilst as town I might have more drive to try anyway. Creature can back me up on this, I had an offsite game where I was disengaged due to post volume + my "lover" partner (basically my mason if I had been town) not being around, but me finding an in-road and having an active partner made me more invested.

See now I am all kinds of confused. Tabor said not to scumread activity cases and now you are saying to do so. At this point it’s kinda clear y’all aren’t talking with each other and that could be causing some reasons for scumreading you.

VOTE: Skybird

Well brass is new so he isn't quite familiar with the way I am as scum. As such he tried to defend me against what he saw as bad logic. Also now that I know who you are it makes perfect sense that you would be reading me this way, as it's the same way I acted in Overwatch mafia to start, which you replaced me in.
I'll try to communicate more with my partner in the future.
~Lumia

hardcore town

[Maid Cafe]

Catching up from page 30 fucking kill me now
Chara is lock town btw like if you ever try to lynch that I will haunt you (I was told about the gambit)
~Maki

IJS, if we get to a 3p lylo with myself, chara, and someone else, chara is probably going to die.

-Cerb

gonna have to make sure you die before Lylo then.
~Maki

:-/. That literally never happens unless I get shot.

-Cerb

noted ^_~
~Maki

[Maid Cafe]

Catching up from page 30 fucking kill me now
Chara is lock town btw like if you ever try to lynch that I will haunt you (I was told about the gambit)
~Maki

IJS, if we get to a 3p lylo with myself, chara, and someone else, chara is probably going to die.

-Cerb

gonna have to make sure you die before Lylo then.
~Maki

:-/. That literally never happens unless I get shot.

-Cerb

noted ^_~
~Maki

Beeboy could have told you that!

-Cerb

Your first mistake is thinking I care about beeboys opinion

[Maid Cafe]

Anyway all caught up I mostly agree with bees townread list besides a certain few

I still want Skybird and Ice dead for the most part nothing else really stands out as D I E to me.
~Maki

[Maid Cafe]

Catching up from page 30 fucking kill me now
Chara is lock town btw like if you ever try to lynch that I will haunt you (I was told about the gambit)
~Maki

IJS, if we get to a 3p lylo with myself, chara, and someone else, chara is probably going to die.

-Cerb

gonna have to make sure you die before Lylo then.
~Maki

:-/. That literally never happens unless I get shot.

-Cerb

noted ^_~
~Maki

Beeboy could have told you that!

-Cerb

Your first mistake is thinking I care about beeboys opinion

I mean, it's not really his opinion.

It's a fact.

The only time we've been lynched before LYLO is in our signature. There may have been one other game where we were scum and sacrificed ourselves to set up a teammate with a better position for a late game win, but I don't remember if that actually happened or if we just talked about doing it.

-Cerb

You clearly have not met me
Hi I'm Maki also known as MariaR
I will make your life a living hell...
ow beeboy I'm kidding OW OW NOT THE NEWSPAPERRRRRRRRRRR

[Maid Cafe]

Wait we're tring baku?
Since when
~Maki

[Maid Cafe]

@Creature but role != alignment?

Still I'm getting visions of Venmar catching some scum then dying to them.

I kinda like this post not gonna lie.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

As much as I enjoy people who scum read me, why tho?

~B

[Maid Cafe]

What do you think is more likely, I rngd a list of people to call town and Dunnstral ended up on it and was not aware he had 1 post.
Or I am legit just town who thinks Dunnstral is town as well.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

What do you think is more likely, I rngd a list of people to call town and Dunnstral ended up on it and was not aware he had 1 post.
Or I am legit just town who thinks Dunnstral is town as well.

~B

Oooooh oooooh I garcia

No more townblocky for you.

Option C you picked them strategically

I think the notion I'd try and buddy Dunnstral, when my slot contains a person that talks to Dunnstral every day (that person is not me) is kinda a silly one.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

It makes me happy that I make posts saying I enjoyed being scum read, and then you proceed to push me and vote me <3.


~B

[Maid Cafe]

Pretty sure the reason is more likely to make it seem you are useful and scumhunting and giving reads but actually you're scum and just put the names of all the people you know are town, including Dunnstral.

I think the timing of the post always comes from town.
Dunnstral is actually a very self aware and good at scum and wouldn't just open the game like that as scum, he would always open the game and do something. Like I can pull games but I fact checked my meta just to be safe, Dunnstral just wouldn't open the game doing fuck all like that, his openings are actually decent as scum.

His post of "hi" literally made me think he was town because if he was scum he'd do anything else. And it's not like that's a line of play that Dunnstral would ever consider faking for town cred either.

I don't need a case, read or a push to determine that someone is town. Mafia has more dynamics than just that.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

Rude :(((

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I've played games that didn't allow me (like the mod wouldn't) let me use my mafia vig powers on scum buddies

~B

[Maid Cafe]

So Kiana, Mark how are your mornings going?

[Maid Cafe]

OtM how do you justify Maid Cafe writing a paragraph to justify

locktowning

a player who said a grand total of "hi" in a 46-page thread only after being called out on its absurdity?

All reads are subject to review.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

OtM how do you justify Maid Cafe writing a paragraph to justify

locktowning

a player who said a grand total of "hi" in a 46-page thread only after being called out on its absurdity?

All reads are subject to review.

~B

Your maid status is also subject to performance review.

Please refrain from personally attacking me :(

[Maid Cafe]

This is Kiana i thought

[Maid Cafe]

I dont have a read on Skybird but Maki seems to really want to see her go so I havent been saying much on the topic because of that.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I wouldnt say I am bending over backwards.
I can sum up the read in like 1 sentence "Dunn does more as scum".

It is a pretty simple idea all the other words just explain why i feel that way.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

I lean town on Bronya I think Titus buddies me as scum and I like these Kiana posts.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

i find this more distracting. especially when you're townreading Mark, Kiana.
i still think Skybird is scummy. so far her defenders have not actually interacted with any part of the

case

.

I mean what is the case summarized.
I have a gasp of it but it is kinda explained over many posts throughout many pages of the game.

~B