Newbie 1859 (Game Over)

[pinturicchio]

Hey guys, I'm going to catch up and post my thoughts as soon as I can!

[pinturicchio]

Ok guys its really late here in Chile and I tried to read everything but somewhere in between became really difficult, and I already convinced myself that Oxy is scum and that his partner is either ruru or ofrhz because of the early towncred to both. A lot of scum motivation there, gives free credit to his partner by giving credit to two players instead of one. The towncred he gives to both is so random I really can't see any other explanation. Also his 1v1 with Scioness seems like building the first mislynch of the game, and he's doing quite good, but nah, you're scum.
VOTE: Oxy

[pinturicchio]

Welcome to the game, Heisenberg =)

Btw, even if I'm scumreading you, I really love your playstyle, it's obvious that you're having fun and your grammar is splendid. I'm not a native english speaker, so your posts are fun to read.

[pinturicchio]

[...] I already convinced myself that Oxy is scum and that his partner is either ruru or ofrhz because of the early towncred to both.

Early on, skitter also said me and ruru were slightly town (post 87). By this line of reasoning, would she also partnered with one of us?

In that same post you're talking about (87) skitter says she's getting townvibes instead of obv!towning ruru. So no, not the same.

[pinturicchio]

ebwop:
not 'explained by', 'answered by'.

Welcome, pinturicchio.

Forgot to vote ealier.
VOTE: ruru

Thanks! By the way, someone already talked about Newbie 1851 and I read that game too; you are on my watch list because of that game, you blended in so good! But I'm townleaning you for now, because the 1v1 with Oxy is an SvT and you are the T.

I'm having trouble catching up, why the vote on ruru? Help good ol' Pin please

[pinturicchio]

Ok guys its really late here in Chile and I tried to read everything but somewhere in between became really difficult, and I already convinced myself that Oxy is scum and that his partner is either ruru or ofrhz because of the early towncred to both. A lot of scum motivation there, gives free credit to his partner by giving credit to two players instead of one. The towncred he gives to both is so random I really can't see any other explanation. Also his 1v1 with Scioness seems like building the first mislynch of the game, and he's doing quite good, but nah, you're scum.
VOTE: Oxy

Interesting. Do you think ofrhz has acted scummy?

Also, if you could pick your role, which role would you prefer and why?

I'm a little biased about my Oxy read, but yes, I've seen scummy behavior coming from you and ofrhz. BUT! The thing is, you've been acting scummy either if you're Oxy's partner or not. What I mean is, if we lynch Oxy today and he flips scum, both you and ofrhz would be in my lynchpool for D2; but if Oxy flipped town, you would still be on my lynchpool and I would townlean ofrhz. This, because knowing that Oxy is town, I would know the motivations in his posts about you and ofrhz, and that would be good for you both, but as I said, you have been scummy with or without Oxy. You remind me of myself in my first town game, but also on my first scum game... So I'll have to sort you out before it's too late.

About my role, it would depend of the setup; in this specific setup, I would be the jailkeeper. I like to think "what would mafia do in this situation" and being jailkeeper is great for that matter, as you can protect the players that you think mafia would try to kill, and after lynching a scum you become an investigative role. It's awesome!

[pinturicchio]

I'm going to be away until evening EST, but I'll put in some effort then, so feel free to leave me any questions. Ideally, Eth0s follows up on the quote below while I am gone.

Will elaborate when I have more time. Should be available within next 14 hours. Almost done being super bust for awhile.

I only realized just this moment that your name is not Heisenberg. lol

Pinturicchio, could you please give us your thoughts on Ruru and Ofrhz? From your PoV, there are only three players in need of examination, so I expect you've put some thought into it? I would be interested in your thoughts on others as well, to a lesser extent.

I'll answer this next, I have to prepare everything for the DBS' last episode and will come back to this

[pinturicchio]

I'm going to be away until evening EST, but I'll put in some effort then, so feel free to leave me any questions. Ideally, Eth0s follows up on the quote below while I am gone.

Will elaborate when I have more time. Should be available within next 14 hours. Almost done being super bust for awhile.

I only realized just this moment that your name is not Heisenberg. lol

Pinturicchio, could you please give us your thoughts on Ruru and Ofrhz? From your PoV, there are only three players in need of examination, so I expect you've put some thought into it? I would be interested in your thoughts on others as well, to a lesser extent.

I'll answer this next, I have to prepare everything for the DBS' last episode and will come back to this

Ok Oxy here's my answer, I'll talk about Ruru and Ofrhz first, I'll go further on my other reads in another post. But before talking about this, I've gotta say, we NEED a replacement for the last slot; if that slot is scum, all of the reads we have are useless because of the lack of interaction of that slot and his/her partner and the rest of town. PRs need to sort the best course of action for the night and having someone missing is worse for town than scum (even if the remaining player is a VT).

That being off my chest: my gutread when I came to this game was that there was a "love triangle" between you (Oxy), ofrhz and ruru, and by love triangle I mean there was a loooot of interaction between you three. Let me put an example: ruru voted for ofrhz because of some mafia theory reason, you and Scioness vote for ruru, ofhrz says he was going to vote for ruru but both of you voted for her first and that she answered already, and literally two posts later ofrhz goes and vote for ruru because of bad reading comprehension. Some posts later, you go with your infamous post where you give too much towncred to both ruru and ofrhz, and ofrhz disagrees with your townread on ruru, and ruru also disagrees with you giving her so much credit. You then go in a 1v1 with Scioness and guess who says that got trouble reading the 1v1 but thought it was a TvT? You guessed it: ofrhz. In the meantime, ruru unvoted ofrhz because she didn't want to keep her vote overnight on someone she was starting to townlean, and started a random question because of... reasons she can't explain.

Conclusion? Ruru was REALLY gamesolvey at the start and it made sense, since she said she was used to another forum where days were shorter; that's why her unvote on ofrhz ping me as scum retracting on getting too much attention with a wagon no one was following. On the other side, my read of ofrhz is totally based on my read on you; that's why I said earlier that, if you flip scum, he MUST be your partner, it just obvious newb!scum; but if you flip town, your read on him would start to make more sense.

[pinturicchio]

I'm a little biased about my Oxy read, but yes, I've seen scummy behavior coming from you and ofrhz. BUT! The thing is, you've been acting scummy either if you're Oxy's partner or not.

Which of my posts seem scummy to you and why?

What I mean is, if we lynch Oxy today and he flips scum, both you and ofrhz would be in my lynchpool for D2; but if Oxy flipped town, you would still be on my lynchpool and I would townlean ofrhz. This, because knowing that Oxy is town, I would know the motivations in his posts about you and ofrhz, and that would be good for you both, but as I said, you have been scummy with or without Oxy. You remind me of myself in my first town game, but also on my first scum game... So I'll have to sort you out before it's too late.

You said ofrhz is acting scummy, but then you said that you would not suspect him if Oxy flipped town. But the reason you link Oxy to ofrhz is because Oxy town-read ofrhz - in other words, not because of ofrhz's behavior.

So I'm not really clear on your answer. Is ofrhz behaving scummy or not?

1. Read my last post, there's my read on you!
2. Never said ofrhz was acting scummy before, I said there was some scummy behavior coming from him and you, and ofrhz' behavior is scummy IF Oxy is scum, because his interactions with him are too obviously scummy to be true. So yes, my read ond ofrhz is linked to my Oxy's read. That's exactly why I'm voting Oxy right now and not ofrhz or you: you three are on my lynch pool, but Oxy's flip would give me the most information to solve the game.

[pinturicchio]

Now, about the other 4 players who are here:
eth0s: I played a game with him where he was the D1 lynch... He lynched himself being VT. Don't try to sort him too early, it's not going to work. He hasn't engaged enough also. I'm townleaning him because of reasons I will discuss when it's appropiate, but trust me, you don't want to lynch eth0s wihout him giving his thoughts about the game. He has good reads as town; if he gives a shitty read, that's a tell.
Dryxx: don't know where, but I townread him because of something... maybe because he sees the same connection I see between ofrhz and Oxy, but he says "if ofrhz is scum, Oxy is scum too" and I think it's the opposite, which may look the same but it isn't. But I do need more content coming from him to sort him out.
Scionness: already talked about her: town vibes, but I don't trust her because her scumgame is so good. I'll sort her out when it's needed, hope I'm dead before that happens.
skitter: I have absolutely nothing to say, I don't remember any of her posts so no reads on her. Not nullreading, just no reads lol

[pinturicchio]

Conclusion? Ruru was REALLY gamesolvey at the start and it made sense, since she said she was used to another forum where days were shorter; that's why her unvote on ofrhz ping me as scum retracting on getting too much attention with a wagon no one was following.

Say it louder for the people in the back

I lol'ed. That means you agree with me on this?

[pinturicchio]

Ok guys its really late here in Chile and I tried to read everything but somewhere in between became really difficult, and I already convinced myself that Oxy is scum and that his partner is either ruru or ofrhz because of the early towncred to both. A lot of scum motivation there, gives free credit to his partner by giving credit to two players instead of one. The towncred he gives to both is so random I really can't see any other explanation. Also his 1v1 with Scioness seems like building the first mislynch of the game, and he's doing quite good, but nah, you're scum.
VOTE: Oxy

@pinturicchio- To be clear, you are basing the bulk of your read of Oxy on just one post?

No no, that post is more like a summary of the playstyle he's been showing on this game. There's a post where he talked about ruru and you with spoiler tags, the 1v1 with Scioness... There's much more but I don't like wallposts, so I'm trying to simplify my read on Oxy for everyone

[pinturicchio]

BUT! The thing is, you've been acting scummy either if you're Oxy's partner or not. What I mean is, if we lynch Oxy today and he flips scum, both you and ofrhz would be in my lynchpool for D2; but if Oxy flipped town, you would still be on my lynchpool and I would townlean ofrhz.

If ruru is scummy independantly of oxy, why are you voting oxy and not ruru? I get that oxy's flip will help you read ofrhz, but you still think that ruru is scummy irregardless of oxy's flip.

If we lynch Oxy and he's scum, ofrhz is his partner; if Oxy flips town, ofrhz is prob!town. If we lynch ruru and she's scum, nice! But who's her partner? Could be Oxy; if she's town, back to plan A with Oxy and ofrhz being partners in crime.

From my point of view (as biased as I am with this trio), lynching Oxy is the best way to go.

[pinturicchio]

because from my pov that logic would confirm ofrhz = town, which would be useful. I don't get the argument tho

3 am here, let me do it tomorrow. I'm curious, though: why would ofrhz be town confirmed?

[pinturicchio]

Don't try to sort him too early, it's not going to work. He hasn't engaged enough also. I'm townleaning him because of reasons I will discuss when it's appropiate

What is this? Paraphrasing: "Don't try to read Eth0s because he hasn't engaged enough to base a read on. I am reading him town." I know you said, "reasons" but what?

First of all, I'm not reading him town, I'm townleaning him; second, don't be impatient, my friend. Eth0s is like a wrecking ball, he will eventually come and I will give my early thoughts on him when this happen.

Look I'm sorry and hate to be that guy but I have just been so busy. I am finally off work and school tomorrow so I WILL have some meaningful content soon. Would do it now but alcohol may be clouding my judgement. I will say that I am liking Oxy's posts a lot and think he is probably night kill target #1 (assuming he isn't scum).

@Pinturicchio You said that "a shitty read" is a scum tell from Eth0s. You believe I am obv scum. Eth0s thinks I'm not just townie, but so townie as to be a probable N1 kill. You have said that you are "townleaning him because of reasons."

Please make sense of these contradictions.

Umm, two ways of disregarding the "contradictions": first one, he made that read AFTER I said I was townleaning him, so his "shitty read" came after my post, so my read could've changed now; second, having a different read to mine doesn't mean he has a shitty read lol, I would be too full of myself if I think my reads are the best and if someone doesn't think as me is having shitty reads. On the contrary, now I want to wait eth0s even more because my read on you could be really really bad, so maybe you should wait for him too.

and

I already convinced myself

that Oxy is scum

I don't like the phrasing of this at all. First, it implies the same sort of early read on someone that he calls me scummy for. Second, "to convince" is a strange verb to use when describing how one comes to have a read. Scummy posts "ping" a town's radar. Town "notices", "picks up on", "catches", and "finds" scum clues. All of these describe the instantaneous nature of realization. Scum, knowing that they must deceive others, must "convince" themselves that others will find an argument believable.

My read wasn't an early read! It is a first gutread, yes, but the game started without me and I had a lot of material to sort my reads unlike your early reads. About the phrasing: you're right! I've said it before: I'm not an english native speaker, so sometimes thing like that happen, so the only thing I can say is "sorry" thanks for the free teaching lesson!

I know were you are coming from, Oxy: you have suspicions on eth0s and I'm the one defending him, so in a world were eth0s is scum, Pin is probably his partner. It's exactly the same thing I'm doing with you and ofhrz, so I get it.

[pinturicchio]

@Ofrhz How do you feel about RVS in a general sense?

Ah. I misunderstood your question.
Ruru Read

Spoiler:

Initial vote on 5 seemed scummy initially because (in my mind) it implied that eth0s had been logged in AFTER the game began and had been lurking. This wasn't the case as I pointed out in 8.

In reality, Ruru had checked other members of the game, found the person who had been active most recently, and chose them. This is super town motivated because it increases the chances that Ruru has to actually engage with the person they vote on.

It also turns out to be exactly the mindset that I took last night while waiting for the game to begin. I made the following image to accompany a vote on Callitwhatyouwant, referencing the difference in our name lengths:



And then I looked at everyone's last time online, realized how long it had been since they had logged in, and decided to switch RVS votes to someone more likely to be active early. Scum!Oxy would have likely used the original image, had he bothered to make an image at all, since it would give him an excuse to passively wait for his RVS target to show up.

Ofrhz Read

Spoiler:

7 has a carefree attitude that I like in response to an RVS vote, and that I especially like coming from someone not comfortable with RVS generally.
12, 16 seemed odd in the moment because they misrepresented what Ruru had actually written.
18 apologizes for the misunderstanding, and

proceeds to never bring it up again

<--- townie

After this point in the thread there seems to be mainly misunderstanding/misrepresenting between the two of them. It continues to look like town trying hard to scum hunt but talking past one another. I look forward to more content from this back and forth to help cement/refute my reads, but I'm not interested in joining in.
(and yes, Sajj, I see that you also apologized for that misunderstanding, but my gut is telling me not to give you the same town cred for it. That's why I want to engage with you.)

What do you think about these reads?

If you could choose your role at the beginning of the game, which would you prefer?

mafia roleblocker

I'll bite. Why mafia roleblocker?

Could you please explain the case for Ofrhz being scum iff oxy=scum

Here are the posts that incriminates ofrhz as your partner. I had some posts from ofrhz too but this would be too long. Basically your interactions with him is giving him the option to create content so he can get towncred from everyone else. These interactions seems prefabricated, like ofrhz asking you in your mafia chat "dude ask me about why I like being mafia roleblocker, I have a good answer to redirect this to ruru" kind of prefabrication. Also, ofrhz saying "Scioness and Oxy's 1v1 was painful to read, but it comes from TvT and I don't want to add fuel to the fire there" is odd.

What I see here is a well aligned mafia! Mafia has daytalk so making this kind of strategy is fully possible: you townread your partner and your partner's D1 mislynch target; your partner push that wagon as there is no tomorrow (he #242 he asks Drixx why in his lynchpool he's not considering ruru, as an example of what I'm portraying); your partner's D1 target gets mislynched, and you successfully gave yourself an alibi if your partner gets lynched on D2. You could even jump on your partner's wagon to get even more towncred! And if your partner's D1 target doesn't get mislynched on D1 and you both survive to D1, even better! Keep this going for D2 and you will be closer to the win.

This is why my read on ofrhz is tied to my read on you: if you flip scum, ofrhz is your partner; if you flip town, all the interactions between both of you comes from town. But you could be doing this exact same strategy with ruru, with ruru going on ofrhz and now following your scumlean on eth0s; then, my lynchpool is well defined. I know this is a tinfoil hat theory, but omg I love my tinfoil hat theories in this game.

[pinturicchio]

I tried to read everything but somewhere in between became really difficult, and I already convinced myself that Oxy is scum

This implies that your read on me had solidified by "somewhere in between." If your read on me was not an early read, then by what point in reading this thread had you solidified your read on me?

Yeah, I read the first posts and thought "Oxy must be scum with either ofrhz or ruru". After reading everything, I confirmed my hypothesis because it kept making sense after all. Let's draw a line:
*--------+------>
*first read of you: "he could be scum with orhz or ruru"
+in between read of you: "he still obv!towns ruru and ofrhz after ruru did some suspicious posts, this makes sense with my first read"
>now: "reading the game again from a macro point of view, my read still makes sense"

[pinturicchio]

How is that different from me making an early read and then having that read still make sense as the game goes on?

My first read: "he COULD BE scum with ofrhz or ruru". Your first read: "ofrhz and ruru are conf!town". Do you see the difference?

[pinturicchio]

@Pinturicchio
Do you have any examples of town!Pin that I could look at where you entertain highly speculative "tin foil hat theories" on D1?

Can't answer that because rules, but yes. Actually, Newbie 1854 is a good example too, as I replaced in and began with my wacky theories almost in the same way I did there.

[pinturicchio]

@pin: did you read the game before you replaced in? What I'm getting at is *when* did you convince yourself oxy was scum - before you replaced in, or after?

I'm a little lost, why is this relevant? Yes, I read the thread before replacing in and the dynamic trio pinged me, but I thought that my Oxy/ofrhz was a really long shot since there was two players missing. Now that I know my alignment, the possibilities grew. Don't get me wrong, it's still a long shot, but is the best I can do with the information provided at this point.

[pinturicchio]

@pinturrichio regarding 288:

you have built your argument on shaky ground

It's the only ground I have at this point, I'm doing what I can!

Also I’m flattered you think Oxy and I have masterminded this strategy to give me town cred. Unfortunately, I can’t convince you that the flow of conversation was _not_ premeditated, since you’ve already dug yourself into this hole where you believe Oxy is scum. Therefore you’ve also convinced yourself that Oxy and me and irrevocably linked, which is a stretch. I will ask this to help you reconsider: do I only come off as town when I’m responding to Oxy? I sure hope not, but this is up to you.

I think you meant "as scum", but yes, I've said it already, I'm not independently scumreading you, I only think you would be obv!scum if Oxy flipped scum!

If you find both Oxy and ruru to be scummy, you should try to lynch whoever is more scummy. The next day, you can go back and revise your idea on who the possible scumteam is. Considering Oxy’s actions can be read as overeager or misguided town, I am confused as to why you think he is the better target. You yourself admitted that Oxy’s actions can be explained if we’re both town.

I'm more convinced on Oxy being scum with you than ruru being scum with someone else (or even with Oxy)!

But let me get this straight: I know I sound convinced and everything but that's just because it's the best I have... But I said it already: not having a replacement on the last spot is obviously affecting the game and I'm too focused on the people who is actually giving content, so no, I'm no THAT convinced, and my reads will eventually change when NSG catches up and eth0s come here and give some content too.

That being said: hi NSG, welcome! I think this is the best replacement we could get for this game!

[pinturicchio]

@Oxy maybe I haven't said this before, I feel I already did, but I think you confirmed your townreads way too early with some weak posts, that's the difference between you and me and why I feel your early reads were confirming town, but ok, I get your point. I will insist, however, that I'm not as convinced as I'm pretending to be and I'm going to reevaluate after NSG and eth0s catching up.

[pinturicchio]

@Skitter30

When analyzing behavior, you seem to be asking "Is there a reasonable doubt that this behavior is indicative of scum/town?" and if the answer is yes, you discount the behavior when forming your read on the player.

You don't like it when others attribute their reads to behaviors that haven't passed that test in your mind, and you argue against it. I believe that this has had a moderating effect on the game to some degree.

This behavior is seriously pro town. Pro town play is not necessarily alignment indicative. That said, I think that maintaining your current playstyle while playing to a scum win con would get much more difficult as the game goes on, and I think this playstyle feels, and should continue to feel, natural for town!Skitter30. +town points

You had a lot of hollow content early where you explained things like why someone might lurk, etc. I was looking for them to die down as we got rolling, and they have. +town points

As to the basics, you have excellent questions, and you usually follow up on their answers. Your analysis seems very reasonable even when it is incorrect. Your voting conformed early to the cautious style I have described, and has looked pro town in intent since having belatedly left RVS. +town points

I have not found instances in your post where the inner town emotions ring unambiguously clear and true. +NAI

tl;dr Skitter30 is playing a very townie game. If Skitter30 is scum, I expect her to basically scum claim by Lylo.

Ok, this... Is not what I was expecting.
UNVOTE: Oxy

[pinturicchio]

That being said: hi NSG, welcome! I think this is the best replacement we could get for this game!

flattering!

can i assume from you saying this that you're not scared of me catching you like last time?

Haha I just meant that you have great reads, and I know that because of that game. But I'll give you that: neither as town or scum I would be scared as I learnt a lot from than game!

[pinturicchio]

Ok, this... Is not what I was expecting.
UNVOTE: Oxy

I think this read could be as easily faked by scum as any I have written in this game, and could be more easily faked than most. What, precisely, makes you town read me for it?[/quote]
You have too many townreads. I've waited for your case on skitter expecting a scumlean or even a scumread because scum!Oxy would need at least two or three scumreads to fabricate the mislynches. If you are scum, townreading so many people is suboptimal as in a LyLo situation where you are placed with two towns and you, by PoE you would be lynched just because of your good cases on town. You are a good player, my friend, and you would not do this as scum. I was wrong, and I'll have to reread everything with you being town from my perspective.

[pinturicchio]

Pin - could you compare Oxy's town read on skitter and his case on me and tell me what you think?

I will, but let me read the thread first, I need to see Oxy's ISO with another perspective now.

[pinturicchio]

@Pinturicchio
Do you have any examples of town!Pin that I could look at where you entertain highly speculative "tin foil hat theories" on D1?

Can't answer that because rules, but yes. Actually, Newbie 1854 is a good example too, as I replaced in and began with my wacky theories almost in the same way I did there.

I assume this refers to 407, since your original entrance was less dramatic in that thread?

Your tone is fairly confident in 1854 as well, but when it became tinfoil hat time you didn't have nearly the same certainty as you did in this game. What's bothering me is that in this game you had both the certainty and the tinfoil hat at the same time (and then went back on it, but only after people found it scummy).

I was not refering to a specific post but my playstyle as a whole, but yeah, that's a good example! About confidence: I blame myself for losing that game exactly because of my lack of confidence in my own reads, and I'm trying to improve: that's why I have said multiple times that I seem more confident than I really am! There's a better example of this, but as I said, site rules.

What do you mean by "(and then went back on it, but only after people found it scummy)"? I'm not following you with that statement.

[pinturicchio]

You have too many townreads. I've waited for your case on skitter expecting a scumlean or even a scumread because scum!Oxy would need at least two or three scumreads to fabricate the mislynches. If you are scum, townreading so many people is suboptimal as in a LyLo situation where you are placed with two towns and you, by PoE you would be lynched just because of your good cases on town. You are a good player, my friend, and you would not do this as scum. I was wrong, and I'll have to reread everything with you being town from my perspective.

Missed this post til just now...

Huh. I guess since I only ever read/watch games to scum hunt I've never really thought about it that way. I am upset with you, my friend. I enjoyed hearing you narrate fantastic tales of scum!oxy's genius, and I was eagerly awaiting the next installment. =)

Tbh, I felt flattered to the point that I almost didn't want to dispute them.

Well, I'm upset with you for towning it up to a point I just can't see you as scum! Tinfoil hat theories are in a thin line between greatness and absurdity; that's the risk of following them.

[pinturicchio]

Pinturicchio, if you aren't going to vote me anymore, you should put your vote here.

Let me keep my faith on eth0s, I have my own reasons to believe it's the best course of action for us! Not gonna lie, I thought he would already be here by now, but I'm ok with waiting one more IRL day.

[pinturicchio]

Here's something funny: the last time I ate pesto I got intoxicated; this was on February of 2017. I said I would never eat pesto again because I started to feel nauseous everytime I smelled it. Today I ate pesto again, and I got intoxicated yet again... Listen to your body, kids.

I'll catch up tomorrow since I'm going to be in bed, but for what I've seen since I conf!towned Oxy:
@Oxy: I don't like too much your team town. I like your case on skitter but I have to make my own read on her to convince myself; ruru is giving me better vibes but that could be coordinated with her partner, sometimes it feels she is being coached; and obviously, I want my jersey please... But I'm with you about ofrhz now, and if I had to build my own dream team right now, even if I'm not fully convinced on skitter, the only change would be ruru for eth0s. I know you will hate me for this, but pleeeeease trust me on this. And about your target's preference: my own target preference now is Drixx and Scioness, in that order. Yesssss I have my new conspiracy theory on the way.

What I'm trying to say is basically my readlist:
Townreads: Oxy and ofrhz
Townlean: skitter30 and eth0s
Null: NSG
Scumlean: ruru
SCUMTEAM: Drixx and Scioness

Won't vote tho, I don't like voting without explaining and as I said, food poisoning will delay this until tomorrow.

[pinturicchio]

I basically don’t trust pinturrichio to not lol hammer (sorry pin I like you a lot but your play is exceedingly eccentric). And I can definitely see town pin laying down the last vote since he already thinks drixx sajj is a team so town would be at a severe disadvantage tomorrow in this case.

Hey, rude!! I'm eccentric, not stupid! I have an intention to vote, but I would NEVER hammer without a claim! And as I said, I'm not voting without explaining my read on Drixx and Scioness before, so don't worry, I wouldn't do that, and I don't think there will be a lol hammer at all, unless a PR is convinced enough and doesn't care to claim on D2, but that's a bit of a stretch.

[pinturicchio]

how are you feeling this morning, buddy?

Dehydrated, but much better than yesterday. Thank you for asking! How are you feeling about Skitter's suspicions on you and your townbloc?

[pinturicchio]

@Scioness, before building my own case, I want to help you not to have a bad time with this game. I know it's not easy to understand since you are in the eye of the storm, but Oxy is a pretty easy sortable player, and it can be explained with one single word: overconfidence. Look at his progression: he starts with some townreads, he engages a little with you, but when he really really comes and push his reads is when he gets townread by his own townreads so he, in his mind, becomes the "leader" of his townbloc, because other people is having problems sorting out the rest of players. Best example: ruru voting for Drixx because Oxy asked her to do it. Another example: after I dismiss my case on him and ofrhz, he asks me to vote for someone he is scumreading (don't remember who it was, if eth0s, Drixx or you), because that's how he plays: he gets townread, he lead.

Overconfidence is a townie treat, because scum can't be overconfident in their reads. Why? Well, because scum knows who is town and who is scum, of course. That's not overconfidence in their reads, that's knowing for sure that their reads are good or bad. And simulating to be overconfident is really really hard, or at least keep playing like that during the entire game. The only post where I've seen Oxy not being overconfident is after you AtE posts in this page, and that stills make sense because he has tunneled you so hard that maybe he felt bad for it. And yes, I understand how you feel with the tunnel, it has been horrible, but that's a playstyle you will encounter more than once.

About your case on Oxy: it's great, really. People tend to analyze cases ex post and not ex ante; if Oxy flips town and you get lynched and you too flip town, people would say "wow what a shitty case", but that's unfair, since your case was built with much more less information. But the thing is, for the rest of us who aren't in the eye of the storm... Wait I'll talk for myself not for the rest: for me, Oxy is pretty much confirmed as town, so even if your case is great, I can't see how can we both be reading him so differently. I'm not scumreading you because of this, but because I'm scumreading you and townreading Oxy, I can't see your case as something else than a great attempt to get away of suspicions.

[pinturicchio]

btw scum!me has virtually no reason to go back to oxy now, when people has moved on and are about to lynch lurkers. The only reason for scum!me to push back now would be if you were about to lynch my scum mate but that would mean second scum is in {drixxx, eth0s} but I'd gain towncred from bussing then getting myself into the spotlight for refusing to lynch a lurker.

scum!me would also benefit more from having a scum lean on ruru and me not doing it would me that ruru is scum. but then scum me would have no reason to go back to mislynching oxy isntead of going with a luker lynch.

And I have no problems with your posts in 477 and 479, but this one is terrible. Not only because the self awareness, but because you've been reading the thread, and you know that going back to Oxy RIGHT NOW is the best timing for doing it, since skitter stopped voting Drixx and started to have suspicions on Oxy's motivations. So you building a case on Oxy now is well-timed and a great scum strategy.

[pinturicchio]

pin - I will get back to you tomorrow.

Take your time

[pinturicchio]

Ok, as I said, I would have to reread everything after townreading Oxy because all of my reads were determined by Oxy being scum. Of course, the first player that pinged me was Scioness because of the 1v1. I said in one post that that 1v1 was a TvS and thought that Oxy was the S, but now that I think he's the T, I had to read again that 1v1 (poor me). So here are some posts that back up my scumread on Scioness:

Spoiler: Scioness case

This is my first game I'm actually scumhutning, so I have yet to find scum this wat, but I see no reason why it wouldn't work.

Scioness says she is scumhunting, but she, at this time, has almost only interacted with Oxy, implying that, without even interacting with the rest, she already caught a mafia member.

You're not interested in townreads so nah, I have nothing to share with you.

A mild excuse to not provide with a readlist so she doesn't have to commit to any reads at all.

You don't want to commit to a read on me, so something is stopping you?

... And the contradiction. She engages with Oxy because he doesn't commit to a read, when she hasn't commited to her reads either. I've seen this before: scum reflects their own behavior on town to make them look as scum.

Yup, that's what I needed, thank you (sorry if getting on your nerves).

town lean: ofrhz
no read need more time: ruru, eth0s, Drixx, skitter30
need to figure out if I'm omgusing: oxy

Scumhunting, but one townlean and no scumreads? This is a really early read so I'm giving you a pass on this, but it's really weird and feels that you gave no content at all, so we still don't know your sorts.

Thanks! By the way, someone already talked about Newbie 1851 and I read that game too; you are on my watch list because of that game, you blended in so good! But I'm townleaning you for now, because the 1v1 with Oxy is an SvT and you are the T.

Oh lol, has somebody not read that game?
I like what you are saying there and I don't. I will need you to explain those reads at some point n the future.

I'm having trouble catching up, why the vote on ruru? Help good ol' Pin please

There are some inconsistencies from Ruru I want to figure out.

This is were I said you were T and Oxy was S; your vote on ruru makes sense with your later explanation (you saying it was a pressure vote), but never explained what inconsistencies you needed to figure out.

re convincing - I don't find it scummy in general and especially not in the context Pin used it originally.
------
some updates:
- some people are scumming it up for me, I wanna take a back sit for a moment and watch how all of this plays out
- not in for a ruru lynch or putting her on L-1 so I'm hopping off the wagon

UNVOTE: ruru

Again, you unvoting ruru makes sense, but you said "some people are scumming it up for me", and in reality almost all your interactions kept being an ongoing back and forth with Oxy.

Update on my reads and scumpool since NSG asked:

Ruru - up to a townlean. I think her intentions are geniue. She has 'passed' my pressure vote.
Scumpool of {Oxy, ofrhz}
ofrhz - towny on his own, I don't like his play that much after the scumteam of Oxy/ofrhz has been mentioned, though.
Oxy - since I have made my post with reasoning on my townlean he has been proving me wrong. If one is scum so is the other imo.

Don't really see a reason to wagon inactive slots (drixx & eth0s). Drixx has no reason to lurk and eth0s is inactive in both of his games.

VOTE: oxy

And here's the punchline. You said you would take a back sit and watch how the game goes on, but you vote for Oxy instead. You were asked to give a readlist, and maybe you felt the pressure to place a vote to suit your narrative, but you said a few posts ago that you had to sort your reads again. Also, as I said in my post above, the timing for you placing the vote is perfect: I ceased my case on {Oxy, ofrhz} and you take it back to the game with no further explanation. You never talked about it, you never said anything at all about my case. I would have understood you voting Oxy, but bringing up ofrhz into the equation is opportunistic.

I recommend reading the entire thing, but I know it's really long so here's the conclusion: Scioness has almost only interacted with Oxy in the entire game and seems to be really reactive on her wagon instead of trying to game solve. It seems to me that she thought going on this 1v1 was a good idea, because if Oxy gets lynched and he flips town, she will have a solid alibi to defend herself in case she draw suspicions on the next Day.

VOTE: Scioness

Stay tuned for Drixx' case, on the next episode of DBZ!

[pinturicchio]

488 - I have voted Oxy and said I'm scumreading him before you all have went into lynching lurkers. So it was a moment when nobody was actively considering Oxy as scum.

I considered Oxy scum even before replacing in; I stated that before.

[pinturicchio]

Also I really think he's got pin pocketed.

Could you explain? I feel I've given my own reads and content with enough explanation, and pocketing implies that he's scum, right? Because if I follow his lead and he's town, it would be sheeping and not pocketing, right? Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm having trouble with translation

[pinturicchio]

scioness almost solely focusing on oxy is something i noticed while catching up (which i got sidetracked on, sorry), but i'm not entirely convinced that it makes her scum. i'm hesitant to speak to meta here because scioness only has one completed game and it's a policy of mine that if you just played against someone and you think you know their scumgame, you don't actually know their scumgame. that being said, she was a lot more "agreeable" in all of her interactions last game as compared to here.

i guess the conclusion i would come to would be that if you're going to call scioness scum, the tunnelling probably isn't a good reason.

I gave more reasons, but when almost all her content is about the tunneling, it's difficult to not address it as the most important part of the read. As I said, feels like building a mislynch and a good alibi to not draw suspicion on her because of it.

[pinturicchio]

how are you feeling about eth0s analyzing the first of 18 pages?

Sorry I forgot to reply this! I'm still townleaning eth0s, as I feel his content changed after he said he got a load of work to do and he got sick; look at his first posts and the posts after he said he was not playing good. Give eth0s time, his lack of posts doesn't mean lack of content.

[pinturicchio]

Overconfidence is a townie treat, because scum can't be overconfident in their reads. Why? Well, because scum knows who is town and who is scum, of course. That's not overconfidence in their reads, that's knowing for sure that their reads are good or bad. And simulating to be overconfident is really really hard, or at least keep playing like that during the entire game.

I actually kinda think the opposite, that it's easy for scum to be overconfidant cuz they already have all the answers. Like they can seem overconfidant pushing something because they know what they're pushing. Like I think it's harder for scum to fake indecision than overconfidance. I don't particularly think this is a towntell.

--------------

Oxy RIGHT NOW is the best timing for doing it, since skitter stopped voting Drixx and started to have suspicions on Oxy's motivations. So you building a case on Oxy now is well-timed and a great scum strategy.

She went to oxy before I voted drixx - ie before the drixx thing happened.

Also I really think he's got pin pocketed.

Could you explain? I feel I've given my own reads and content with enough explanation, and pocketing implies that he's scum, right? Because if I follow his lead and he's town, it would be sheeping and not pocketing, right? Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm having trouble with translation

Pocketing doesn't inherently mean scum; sometimes town can pocket too, but yeah atm I kinda think he's scum who's pocketed you - he's trying to make you want to join his townbloc, and to make you want to do what he wants.

I'll comment on your scioness case in a bit.

Quote n°1: maybe I wasn't clear enough, but think about a scum being overconfident pushing a wagon knowing that he is lynching a town. Also, overconfidence: to feel you're right, which is different to knowing you are right/wrong. Scum will know they're right when townreading someone, but also know they're wrong when scumreading someone. But I get your point, of course.

Quote n°2: read my post on context: she was saying that there was no reason to go back to Oxy, and I said that the timing for going back was perfect, because she voted Oxy long time ago, but you recently started to suspect him and it's a good time to explain her read.

Quote n°3: well, it makes a lot of sense if Oxy was scum, so got it, thank you for explaining! But what would be the difference between pocketing and sheeping? It's like a "who came first, the chicken or the egg" situation? As in "Oxy persuaded me to follow him" instead of me following him not because he's asking but because I think his reads are good?

[pinturicchio]

Will pick up where I left off in approx. 2.5 hours.

or will I?

A page analysis a day keeps the mislynches away (?)

[pinturicchio]

OK, going in order:

@pin, 501:

1. Like I get what you're saying, but I think I'm going to have to disagree with this. I think scum are more likely to be overconfidant cuz they know all the answers, and cuz that way they might be able to get people to follow them.

2. There was only like 12 hours between when she voted him and I got suspicoius of oxy, and like another 18 hours or so before she wrote a case on him, and she wasn't really active in between. I think her case is just an extension of her previous vote.

3. I think sheeping can happen if somenoe is pocketed, but someone can sheep without being pocketed. Like being pocketed is player A specifically trying to manipualte player B into townreading them. Player B can townread player A and decide to sheep them without being pocketed.

In this specific case I kinda think that 'you think his reads are good and so are following his reads' might have been a thought process he cultivated/encouraged. Like you came to it on your own, but once you did, he started throwing in some lines that would encourage you to want to follow him (like the example I quoted before at the top of 416, with the jersey thing, and you replying that you wanted the jersey. )

------------------

@oxy: you said you had read stack-the-deck and NSG was in that game. What did you think of her play?

1. Ok, I get your point too, so not going to insist with my point!
2. Fair enough, but what do you think on my case on Scioness in general? I know this will be difficult to you because we are on different sidewalks, but from my point of view, town!Oxy took the bait and now is townreading Scioness because of the AtE. Why do you think scum!Oxy would do this? If Oxy was town, do you believe Scioness would be town too?
3. Ok, of course i don't feel pocketed because I feel my reads are not affected by him, but I get your point and it makes sense from your point on view. I simply think Oxy is town and that happened before the "pocketing"

[pinturicchio]

I'm reading everything you post, but I'll answer you after you fully catch up and see your own conclusions!

[pinturicchio]

Like you are trying to convince sajj that she needs to take a step back to see how Oxy plays but why do you care about this so much and then vote her? I know you have indecisive tendencies and I'm not trying to insult you for it, I just wonder if maybe you could give a really concise breakdown on why you think either of sajj or oxy is more likely to be scum. Because it seems like you think they're both scummy yet label it a tvs. At this point I think it's time to build a really good case and go with it (after thinking, of course).

Ok that you cought up:
1. I cared because even if I scumread Scioness, I do believe that she got upset with Oxy because of the tunnel. I felt sorry for her because this game really get on the nerves of some people and I don't like that; it's really easy to avoid those situations, but sometimes it escalate too quickly. I would say is the least fun part of this modality (remember my situation with Harambey on Newbie 1854? That hit me hard, I was not expecting it). So I tried to lend her a hand. This is a game, after all: if someone is not having fun, I don't care if I'm winning or losing, it stops being fun for me.

Now, about "building a really good case on it", I think that you missed some essential posts about this: I gave a townread on Oxy long time ago because his read on skitter was not what I was expecting from scum!Oxy, because he had two "conf!towns" and I was watching carefully for his next move: I thought he would give a scumlean or scumread to someone because it would suit his narrative as being the townleader but in reality leading town to mislynches. But he instead townread skitter, and having too many townreads on early game is not an optimal strategy for scum. At that point of the game I thought Oxy was being very meticulous, so if Oxy was scum, I don't believe he would have gave skitter a townread. I read the whole thread after that, but believing Oxy was town instead of scum, and it made sense to me. So yes, I still thought that Oxy's and Scioness' 1v1 was a TvS, but now believing that Oxy is town, I started to think Scioness was the scum.

One last thing: I've addressed my indecisive tendencies in this game too. I firmly believe that one of the reasons that you self hammered on our game was partly my fault because of my indecisiveness, so I've tried to improve in that matter. I've shown myself as more confident in this game, even if I'm not as confident as I seem to be.

Glad you cought up, eth0s.

[pinturicchio]

but I am 100% okay with lynching him today.

You won't lynch me today.

Lol, what, where? I told you not to vote eth0s, I think that's the only "pocketing" I could have ever done to you. What changed?

[pinturicchio]

I mean I don't care if you don't townread me, but me pocketing you makes no sense. That was just a compliment and I stand by it

[pinturicchio]

I still appreciate the compliment. It made my night that night, and I hope my scum reading you doesn't change our future friendship.

I see what you mean, but you're technically doing the same thing here.

Why would I not be friendly to scum? It's not like they are mafia IRL

[pinturicchio]

First: I was trying to simplify as much as I could why Oxy was tunneling you so hard, but yeah of course it's not as simple as that. And yeah, I think he thought he was doing a great job putting you on top of mind of everyone by posting about you from time to time, so he leading a lynch was possible.

By less information I mean that, at the time you made the case on Oxy, you didn't know the alignment of anyone but yourself on the game; that's what I mean with ex post analysis. People would read your case knowing for sure that Oxy was town and try to debunk your case and maybe scumread you for it, but that would be unfair because the case is good. And no, when I said I liked your case I meant that, no matter your alignment, it's well constructed. I mean, if you are town, it's a great case and I would totally buy it, and if you're scum, you did a great job to drive a mislynch. I believe the latter because I started scumreading you before the case. Having good or bad reads is NAI from my point of view.

About the bolded: yes, it's biased, that's what I meant. From my point of view, Oxy is town, so seeing someone so convinced that Oxy is scum is weird for me, because one of us has to be wrong. But as I said, I'm not scumreading you for that, so no, town doesn't has to have the same reads, it only drew my attention that someone could be reading the game in such a different way.

Last: no need to thank me, I'm glad that you aren't having a bad time as I thought you were!

p-edit: shit, ninjaed to the death. @Scioness this was a reply to your post!!

[pinturicchio]

It looked to me like you were grooming pin to want to hammer if drixx hadn't posted in 24 hours.

Don't you think you could have just unvoted after pin gave intent to hammer if you felt the lynch shouldn't go through?

I didn't give intent to hammer at all. Y'all assumed I would vote Drixx because I said that Drixx and Scioness were the scumteam, but I said specifically that I wouldn't vote Drixx nor Scioness without making a case on them before. The closest thing I remember saying is that I intended to vote him, but I said immediately that I wouldn't vote for him without my case.

[pinturicchio]

mod, did you prod Drixx?

[pinturicchio]

You're relying that your reads are better than mine in that case, because saying "drixx posts something townie/scummy" is assuming that Drixx is town/scum, so your read on me would've still be lame. Also, "drixx posts something scummy ---> Pin start hard scum reading Drixx ----> we get off the wagon" doesn't seem right; we would have lynched Drixx in that case, and I believe that is something that skitter was afraid of, because determining Drixx alignment just because some posts defending himself after being inactive is lame.

[pinturicchio]

@Scioness:
I made my case on you by ISOing you, maybe that's why my commentary is out of context or was already answered. First off, I totally misrepped your "scumhunting" post, so I take that back. I thought you were saying you were applying a new strategy to scumhunt, not that this was literally your first game being town. I mean, that still is up to WIFOM, but is not what I thought you were saying, sorry! This also means that my post about your first readlist was wrong, because again, I thought you were doing a scumhunting method and that made no sense with a readlist without scums lol.
About ruru's reaction test: yeah you don't have to explain everything, but if you are doing a reaction test, I would hope to know about the results at sometime? But as I said, you made sense. Now, a reaction test can be made by town or scum, so this doesn't tell me much
I do think that almost all the inconsistencies I saw from you were misrepped because of a stupidity of mine.

The thing is, I'm way better at townhunting that scumhunting, so I'm pretty sure about my townreads (ofrhz, eth0s and even Oxy who has been doing some weird posts lately), so by PoE I still believe you are a good lynch from my point of view. At this point, when I get too many townreads, my best course of action is to worry that my townreads don't get lynched instead of worrying who could be scum; I have three townreads and a townlean (skitter), two nulls because of lack of content but I'd say that NSG could be town because she's acting like our last game together, and ruru and you who I don't see as town at this moment. That means that, even if my cases are shit (which usually are), my townreads are usually good, so you and ruru are my best bets for today.

[pinturicchio]

One more thing: I'm kinda worried about the deadline of this day, because this sunday is easter and I don't know how that will affect the participation of some players in this game. I know for sure it will affect my posting as I'm going to spend this weekend with my family and we're leaving home, so I will have limited access and only through my phone. Is anyone else having that problem like me? Because if I'm not the only one, maybe we should ask the mod to extend the deadline, or we're going to make a pressured decision. I'm not up to any policy lynches, I don't advocate to that kind of strategy.

[pinturicchio]

Sorry for lack of content, as I said, I'm a little complicated, but I'm to stay read everything. Thanks for the extended deadline!!

Just two quick things:
1. I'm with NSG: start commiting with your votes. If you're afraid of being scumread because of commiting, you're not helping.
2. This could be a longshot, but someone brought the fact that ruru didn't said that, with her vote, Drixx was on L-1. Could this be a townslip?? Remember that she's a newbie so maybe she didn't know that was something you should do; if she was scum, her partner would've told her in their chat what L-1 is while talking about strategy or something like that... I know this is stretch, but I've been scumleaning almost all the game and I'm trying to decide if she's my best option to vote along with scioness.

[pinturicchio]

EBWOP I'm trying to read everything

[pinturicchio]

EBWOP 2.0 scumreading her (although I think that was easy to get because of context)

[pinturicchio]

I'm on my way to my house, I'll be there in maybe an hour or two! But no, I still think you're town except for one tiny detail that I don't want to talk about for now!

[pinturicchio]

Ok, I'll clarify some things:

1. Now that eth0s is asking for a replacement, I'm not townreading him anymore. I was convinced that the way eth0s was playing was not because of lack of commitment or lack of time, but because he could be an investigative PR playing a little scummy so he won't get nightkilled to get results for D2. Now that he's replacing, I don't think this anymore and I'm totally open to the idea that he could be scum. I must say: replacing out is not consistent with the idea of him lurking as scum, but he could perfectly be scum with not much time to play, so for now, eth0s slot is null to me.

2. When I have a scumread, I usually pair them with another player to see some reactions. Example: I scumread Oxy, I pair him with ofrhz to see how both react about that. If Oxy is scum and ofrhz is town, they both will react in a way that will be helpful for D2 if Oxy gets lynched; if Oxy is town and ofrhz is scum, same; if both Oxy and ofrhz are town, another set of reactions; if both are scum, another set of reactions. As an example, when I scumread Oxy, ofrhz kept his townread on Oxy, when I expected him at least start having some doubts on him because of me pairing him with Oxy; that would have been a reaction I would've noticed on D2 if Oxy flipped scum, as a way of separating himself of Oxy. Given that ofrhz didn't do that, I assumed he was town, regardless of Oxy's alignment. Then, I townread Oxy because of other reasons, and now I got two townreads.
I tried to do the same with Scioness and Drixx, this time Scioness being my scumread and Drixx my objective. Problem is, Drixx didn't participate at all because he was AFK, and Scioness focused on defending herself instead of talking about the possibility of her being scum with Drixx, so I couldn't read him better. I must note that some reactions to my scumread on Drixx pinged me (skitter and ruru, specifically), so I'm not entirely disappointed; even if Drixx has been null for me, skitter and ruru's push on him gives me the idea that Drixx is town being pushed by scum. The unvote from skitter pings me a lot on this matter, as if Drixx was lynched and flipped town, she thought she would be scumread on D2 and she panicked.

3. Thanks to the players who answered me about ruru's supposed townslip, I agree that it isn't a townslip and that helps me even more on my reads now, because ruru voting Drixx is something I see as scummy. ruru and skitter would be my both prime suspects if Drixx was indeed town; there should be one scum on that pair. ruru is pushing skitter right now and I don't know what to think about that, because she makes sense, but maybe it's a scum motivated push.

That being said, my reads right now are:
Townread: ofrhz
Townread with a little detail: Oxy
Townlean: Drixx
Null: eth0s
Scumlean: ruru and skitter
Scumread: Scioness

P-edit: lol forgot about NSG and I see ruru is now pushing her... I don't know, haven't seen anything about NSG that pinged me, no read on her at this moment.

[pinturicchio]

@ruru: I nullread Drixx, but his wagon feels scum motivated; that would make Drixx town.

@Oxy: I haven't said much about Drixx' wagon until now because of what I mentioned: I was waiting to see some reactions. ruru's vote on Drixx is scummy in a world where Drixx is town; you gave explanations for voting Drixx, and ruru's reasoning was "I was following my townread", and I believe that is pretty convenient. A town is leading a mislynch, I agree with that town, the lynch flips town, the town who lead the mislynch is scumread, etc etc. I already had my suspicions on ruru, her vote on Drixx is one more thing to scumread her. But I can't fully scumread her because her push on skitter is alligned with what I think about skitter, so I'm a little lost about those two.

[pinturicchio]

Conclusion? Ruru was REALLY gamesolvey at the start and it made sense, since she said she was used to another forum where days were shorter; that's why her unvote on ofrhz ping me as scum retracting on getting too much attention with a wagon no one was following.

This was my first approach about ruru, which is why started scumleaning her. After this happened the Drixx wagon, where I confirmed my read on her, started to scumread her. After Drixx wagon came ruru's push on skitter, so I started doubting of my scumread on her; back to scumlean. I think this is the best way to summarize it without making a wallpost or having to reread the thread again

[pinturicchio]

ruru's reasoning was "I was following my townread", and I believe that is pretty convenient.

When did I say this?

Didn't say you said it, but you could say it after Drixx' flip; I think that you following Oxy was implied by Oxy, can't recall

[pinturicchio]

hm, drixx seems to be going through the same thing that eth0s and i have experienced.

Who do you townread the most because of this, eth0s or Drixx? Because eth0s gave a lot of content before asking to be replaced, unlike Drixx, so I don't think they were going through the same thing.

[pinturicchio]

I'm referring to Pin's explanation about his eth0s read.

What explanation? The last one I did about nullreading him now that he's replacing out?

[pinturicchio]

@pin yeah that one. I also need you to answer my posts to you when you will have time. If you will explain those things I'm asking for it will be easier for me to sort you.

Wait, what posts?

[pinturicchio]

One post, sorry. 721 I don't think you have answered that one.

Ooooh I remember reading that after waking up and couldn't understand a thing about the first quote and I was like "damn, I don't know how to say that I didn't understand without looking like an idiot" haha; that, added to the fact that I got really tired with our back and forth posts and that I was only phone posting by that time made me completely ignore that post. I'm sorry Scioness but I already said my scumread on you is partially because your 1v1 with Oxy and MAINLY because of PoE.

And speaking about PoE... I HAD TO talk about my read on eth0s. I've been very "misterious" about my read on him to follow his strategy and now that I see it wasn't a strategy but being busy IRL, my read on him changed drastically. I can't go and say "hey guys I've been hard townreading eth0s this game but now that he's replacing out I'm no longer townreading him" without any explanations at all; people would think I'm nullifying my read because of the replacement itself and that's not it. And changing my read on eth0s is a big deal for me, because my PoE shattered a little with one less townread. That means that my read on you is now worse just because he replaced out, and that's a bummer.

One more thing about you: I think you towned it up after getting off the 1v1 with Oxy; you asking me questions constantly gave me a hard time and I find a little odd that you focused on the only person scumreading you instead of focusing on others, but there's something important in that statement: I'm the only one scumreading you, and that could be either because you have a scumpartner reluctant to jump on your wagon or because you are indeed playing like town and I got too biased because of the 1v1 with Oxy; I really don't know which one is the correct answer, but being the only one makes me believe I'm just very very wrong.

[pinturicchio]

Now, about talking of softclaims...
VOTE: skitter30

[pinturicchio]

Now, about talking of softclaims...
VOTE: skitter30

I neither understand what this means nor why you're voting me. I'm explaining why I'm not voting my biggest scumread.

Also did you ever explain why you're scumreading me in the first place, which I asked about a few pages back?

Hey math!

Skitter, I've explained multiple times my reads, please don't make me do it again. If you have any doubt, be more specific.

[pinturicchio]

844 Pin
I have been asking so much becuase a lot of your conclusions appear unclear to me. E.g. you said that I have made my case on Oxy without all information because I didn't know anybody's alignemnt in the game at that time.
And that's true becuase I don't but if you were scumreading me I don't think that's a conclusion you would make.

He could have been acting the way he did because of being pr and have to replace because of lack of time, I guess. I mean I get why you said that but I just wish you could have leave the pr part out.

I was asking you questions because I didn't understand where your conclusion came from. Knowing why you think the way you do would make it easier for me to get a read. At the time I have also been talking with other players, so I wasn't really focused on you.

Why are you voting Skitter over Ruru? What do you think of my case on Ruru?

1. I said that about your case because you were frustrated at that time and even if I didn't agree with you, I thought it would be nice to say that your case was good, no matter your alignment is.
2. The PR part was the most important part about my read on him, why would I not talk about that? I'm saying I thought he was a PR, now I'm saying I don't know and I will not talk about it; his playstyle seemed like a PR, but now that he's been replaced I don't believe that, he was just busy. I'm not helping scum with PR hunting if that is what you're implying.
3. I have my own suspicions on ruru, but you scumreading her gives me a bad feeling; I still got you on my lynchpool. Skitter over ruru: I already gave my reads about skitter and ruru after catching up, and after that, skitter says "I'm not voting Oxy because of his softclaims"; if I'm town and think that Oxy is softclaiming, I shut the hell up about it, no matter how obvious the softclaims are.

[pinturicchio]

Mathdino replaces eth0s!

Pleeeeease don't claim tracker welcome Dino! You're here to conf!read NSG?

[pinturicchio]

@math: saying that you want to no-lynch or vote drixx and then falling back on me when that idea gets some resistance after you say that my posts are kinda townie and after I say I'm fine with it is not exactly a good look.

Also after I flip town I want everyone (cough math) reconsider oxy cuz his posts are incredibly pocket-y and just feel fake.

Soooo what's your read on Dino? Because first you throw some shade saying that his push on you could make him look scummy, and then you tell everyone and specifically Dino to reconsider his read on Oxy...

[pinturicchio]

1. I only replace into townslots when I have the option. I almost replaced into NSG's slot when callit flaked out, but I wasn't scumreading enough people at that point in the game to say "well I guess callit is town by PoE".

Dino, I was going to address this the first time you said it, but now that you said it again... Do you have any example (I mean another game) where you said this (that you only replace into townslots) but you actually were scum?

[pinturicchio]

@Dino I'm townreading you because of you because of your posts, but you saying that you only replace on townslots is making me paranoic; at some point you will have to lie about that, right? Because you saying that everytime you replace in on a townslot... Wouldn't that become a trust tell? Help me about this point.

Also, you said you wouldn't read the entire game because is full of walls. How did you townread eth0s before replacing in if you didn't read the thread?

[pinturicchio]

@math: saying that you want to no-lynch or vote drixx and then falling back on me when that idea gets some resistance after you say that my posts are kinda townie and after I say I'm fine with it is not exactly a good look.

Also after I flip town I want everyone (cough math) reconsider oxy cuz his posts are incredibly pocket-y and just feel fake.

Soooo what's your read on Dino? Because first you throw some shade saying that his push on you could make him look scummy, and then you tell everyone and specifically Dino to reconsider his read on Oxy...

@Skitter

[pinturicchio]

Happy 1000 posts on long ass D1!

[pinturicchio]

pin what is your preferred lynch order today, again?

Skitter
Ruru or Scioness
Drixx

In that order. Drixx is the only one I would be surprised if flipped scum as I'm pretty much convinced that both scums are into the other three, but I'm trusting other reads more than mine about him. The only obv!town for me are you and ofrhz, and you being obv!town confirms even more that Skitter is just trying to make one last attempt to save herself by saying you are scum.

[pinturicchio]

@ruru, 1004
@pin, 1005 - I don't get why you're townreading drixx. And like, I keep on saying I scumread oxy cuz he's scummy to me. And like how would me persisting in saying that he's scummy despite great resistance help me not get lynched exactly? IE I don't understand the connection you're drawing between 'me saying oxy is scummy' and 'saving myself from getting lynched'.

Skitter for real, don't make me repeat the same things I have already stated. I said I don't believe Drixx is scum because I think scum is between you, ruru and Scioness, and bot you and ruru pushed for a Drixx lynch and you panicking makes me believe you knew it was a mislynch.

About your read on Oxy, I think you're trying to town it up by scumreading a player who has been townread by many; "scum would try to deviate attention to another mislynchable player; instead, I'm going to stick to my read on the townie player so they don't see any inconsistency"

[pinturicchio]

@ofrhz I'm with you that a skitter green flip doesn't give a ton of info, though i don't think it gives none. I think if skitter flipped green, I'd look harder at Pin, nsg, mathdino, and less hard at drixx. I'm not actually confident in that conclusion, however.

Do you believe that you would be less suspicious than me if skitter flipped green? Theoretically speaking, as I believe you would still be town, but I don't see why you are suspecting me among others, other than simple bad PoE.

[pinturicchio]

@pinturicchio No, I'd still be 100% town from my pov. Ya my man, my read on you is 98% poe + 1%your tendency to wild conspiracy theories that is probably nai +1% i haven't identified a solid town tell in your game (also nai). Is that bad?

Lol of course you are town from you PoV, I meant from anyone else's PoV. I'm quiet ok with you scumreading me just because of PoE because that's probably the best way to get scum and you don't give me a chance to defend myself so I don't have much to say about it, but in a world where skitter is town, I would wait for the nightkill before speculating who would I go after. I only know what would I do if skitter flips scum: tunnel the sh*t out of ruru after that lame "fuck it if I'm wrong I'm wrong vote". I'm actually considering voting ruru now if anyone else joins that wagon, but we have 13 hours left and I'm not a fan of a no lynch today.

[pinturicchio]

Aaah this feels good
VOTE: ruru

[pinturicchio]

Oh, didn't notice she was going to be afk. Damn I really don't know what to do in this situation, I'll probably be sleeping when the deadline comes

[pinturicchio]

Ok back to skitter then
VOTE: Skitter30
We need a lynch

[pinturicchio]

like i said, our two options are:

1. lynch the VT claim

2. No Lynch (mathematically pretty good) and agree to take skitter30 to endgame because it's obviously worse if we're just gonna lynch her tomorrow anyway

I thought we agreed that the no lynch was not optimal in this situation

[pinturicchio]

I'm uncomfortable with the idea of talking about the tracker in general, maybe we can discuss it at the end of the game

[pinturicchio]

"Now assume VT lynch and tracker doesn't claim and mafia opts to not shoot the tracker for fear of protection:
Under all setups, mafia has a 20% chance of hitting the other power role, which is strictly better.

Now assume VT lynch and tracker doesn't claim and mafia opts to not shoot the tracker for fear of protection:
With cop/tracker, mafia has a 100% chance of hitting a power role.
With JK/tracker, mafia has a 0% chance of hitting a power role AND a kill is stopped.
With doc/tracker, mafia will shoot elsewhere, and thus has a 1/5 chance of hitting the doc, coming out to 20%."

I assume you wanted to say on the first paragraph that the tracker claims and scum doesn't shoot him, and in the second paragraph that he claims and mafia decides to shoot him? Correct me if I'm wrong please

[pinturicchio]

"Now assume VT lynch and tracker doesn't claim and mafia opts to not shoot the tracker for fear of protection:
Under all setups, mafia has a 20% chance of hitting the other power role, which is strictly better.

Now assume VT lynch and tracker doesn't claim and mafia opts to not shoot the tracker for fear of protection:
With cop/tracker, mafia has a 100% chance of hitting a power role.
With JK/tracker, mafia has a 0% chance of hitting a power role AND a kill is stopped.
With doc/tracker, mafia will shoot elsewhere, and thus has a 1/5 chance of hitting the doc, coming out to 20%."

I assume you wanted to say on the first paragraph that the tracker claims and scum doesn't shoot him, and in the second paragraph that he claims and mafia decides to shoot him? Correct me if I'm wrong please

yes that's what i mean my bad

that also leaves out the benefit that we'd know the setup by tomorrow by whether or not tracker lived and/or was roleblocked

Ok, but my problem is that in your analysis, you're assuming that the tracker knows that the lynch is a VT. If the tracker believes that the D1 lynch will flip scum, then he becomes an investigative role as eficient as a cop and it would be better for him and for everyone to keep his/her identity hidden. So it would have to be other two scenarios: 1. No lynch and the tracker claims, but we don't know if there's a tracker so it's risky; and 2. Tracker claims on D2 if he's alive.

My other problem with the tracker claim strategy is that scum can do it when there's a roleblocker. You said "by whether or not tracker lived and/or was roleblocked", but there's no setup where a roleblocker and tracker coexists.

[pinturicchio]

I've never seen a massclaim so I don't know what you're talking about, and if the 2 PRs are alive when that massclaim hits, that means that it could be a D3 LyLo with a false tracker and 2 PRs, but we wouldn't know which PR is lying... I don't know Dino, I just think is not that simple

[pinturicchio]

Just noticed this was back. I will be very busy until maybe wednesday, but now I've got a little time, let me see something

[pinturicchio]

I'm going to quote every thing that pinged me from ofrhz this day because Dino didn't townread him and I want to confirm that he (Dino) was wrong:

Actually no, I think the Drixx Lynch could have been entirely town motivated.

VOTE: ruru

Ok, why? This is pretty convenient for you since you were on that wagon. Are you trying to evade pressure?

My reasons for voting are the same as yesterday, and I'm pretty sure I explained them yesterday, but basically you're not genuinely scumhunting.

ofhrz

: ruru, Drixx, ruru, ruru, Drixx

You're accusing ruru for not being active scumhunting, but you've only voted two people: the person you're accusing and the mislynch...

if you are scum, Drixx and NSG were both viable scum partners (at the time).

I would have preferred to lynch you as I indicated later, but I wouldn't have done it without a claim.

Ok, I was going to look why did you vote Drixx because from all the votes he got, Scioness and yours were the ones that pinged me most, since you were basically tunneling ruru... But I get it. I'll reread your vote on Drixx tho.

I guess aside from Mathdino's read on NSG, I don't really see anything that indicates NSG is town.

Yes, good job. This is a real contribution.

Gonna try looking from another angle. I was thinking that Math being targeted night 1 was odd. Like I had a feeling he wasn’t a PR based on how he took control of the game from the outset, and the only other reason to lynch him otherwise is his ability to game solve.

This would put the spotlight on scioness and me (lol) because we’re the first two up in his list of people to lynch if Drixx is town.

Talking about why Dino was the nightkill is WIFOMy; I see what you're saying, scum could've thought that Scioness and/or you would be an easy mislynch this day, but then again, Scioness and/or you could just stage this by killing Dino and saying "scum is trying to mislynch us"... Let's analyze Dino's reads and the votecounts on D1, that's better info. Dino made a post with a lot of that. (I see you said something about Dino's townreads in this post but I want to talk about that later in another post).

Hmm, I’m townleaning pin though. Could pin/NSG be a thing? If not, all possible scumteams involve scioness (I also think skitter/NSG is unlikely)

I've seen you implying that NSG could be scum, scared of Dino changing his read on her, and saying that maybe Dino was wrong... Also, why are you townleaning me? I haven't seen your read on me in this game at all.

I also couldn’t find any read from NSG about pin except for a town tell she saw. I’m guessing that’s why she had pin in her top 3 townreads.

Good job again.

Fast conclusion: ofrhz is town, Dino was wrong. NSG is town too, you're wrong there ofrhz

[pinturicchio]

Now, about Dino: I'm glad and pissed at the same time that he died and flipped VT.

Glad for two things: I thought he was a PR because of eth0s and because he didn't claim Tracker (he really likes breaking setups and I'm not so sure that claiming Tracker as a VT is the best course of action for town, even if he gives very good reasons based on numbers and shit), and also because his entrance did ping me; I don't like his "I'm confirmed town because I only replace townslots I townread", so him flipping town is a very useful tool for us now, because his townreads are indeed really good.

But I'm also pissed, also for two things: because if he was scum I would understand him doing what he did, but him being town I think it's a little unfair to come and be basically a conf!town in a Newbie game... I mean come on, I had a blast in my first Newbie because I was really engaged and almost dreamed with that game. When someone as experienced as Dino comes, conf!town himself and start solving the game... I don't know, it feels unfair, for town and for scum, because if Dino's reads are right, it doesn't feel like a win at all, and obviously for scum is unfair too because there was a conf!town. I believe that's why the scumteam decided to kill him: you have to kill the people who won't be lynched by any chance, that's one of the reasons scum tries to hit the PRs at night (and because of the PR's night actions, of course), and Dino was basically conf!town...

The other reason why I'm pissed is because Dino was wrong about Drixx, and I was right, and now there's a slight chance that we won't win because of this... From my point of view, Oxy, NSG (because Dino's reads on her are basically always correct and I won't think much more about that) and ofrhz (confirmed now for me) are town, so my lynchpool is still between skitter, ruru and Scioness. Why in the hell did skitter's wagon died? I pretty much convinced myself that the scumteam was Dino and skitter after rereading the last pages of the thread, but now Dino is dead... So I'm back to my lynchpool. If, instead of Drixx, skitter would've been lynched, if she flipped town, ruru was basically conf!scum from my point of view; if she flipped scum, Scioness was a good target for the next day. But that doesn't works on D2 because if we lynch skitter and she flips town, ruru could fakeclaim on D3 and I'm not willing to be in that situation because everyone else is townreading ruru and I trust my townreads better than my scumreads so I could be wrong on her but then again I could be right and OMFG anxiety.

Sorry for the long ass post, as I said, I will be busy and I'll try to do back and forth posts, but it's unlikely, so I had to give my early thoughts

[pinturicchio]

Hi Pin!

Why is ofrhz conf!town from your pov?

Why is ruru conf!scum if skitter is town? Who could she be scum with?

What is your initial opinion on where we should lynch today?

Sorry, change both confs for obvs. They are not confirmed, but obvious.

ofrhz was pretty much obv!town all D1 but I was willing to reconsider because of Dino's read on him. His first posts on D2 pinged me hard but then he went back to obv!town ofrhz of D1. scum!ofrhz would townread NSG and keep pushing ruru as it is far easier than starting to doubt Dino's read on NSG and townread the player he has pushed consistently, and that's not something he would do premeditated.

About ruru: I fucked up that part, I meant to say that if skitter flipped scum, ruru would be obv!scum and if skitter flipped town, ruru could still be scum and she would have the chance to fakeclaim. ruru being the obvious partner of skitter is because PoE and because her vote on her saying "fuck it if I'm wrong I'm wrong" which seemed so awkward to me.

[pinturicchio]

About my initial option... There are two players who haven't even posted lol there could be a guilty and we're just losing our time discussing so nothing yet, but I already stated that my lynchpool stayed the same as D1 as I got no new information (the only thing that got me was Dino not being a PR but that doesn't change his alignment)

[pinturicchio]

ruru being the obvious partner of skitter is because PoE and because her vote on her saying "fuck it if I'm wrong I'm wrong" which seemed so awkward to me.

huh. When I try to read this in its most scummy manner, it's as scum!ruru apologizing in advance because she knows it's town!skitter that she is voting on. Why does she say that when she is voting her partner?

It could be read in both ways, but I see it like "I'm not convinced with this vote" when she clearly knows she's voting for her partner. She had to join the skitter wagon at some point and it seemed the right time since skitter was the most probable lynch on D1 (I still don't get what the hell happened while I was away and Drixx got lynched)

[pinturicchio]

okay i'm willing to fucking lose to scum skitter30

i finished my metadive and unfortunately her scumgames onsite are horribly outdated

nuance and general signs of intelligence are not towntells for her, unfortunately

THAT SAID i think she's towntold in this game in numerous ways that i'd have serious trouble seeing out of her scumgames without, for example, being coached by RC (a thing that happened once in what seems to be her best scumgame lol)

gimme a bit to do a onceover on skitter and to decide on drixx

but yeah we no lynch before we lynch skitter

"I'm willing to fucking lose to scum skitter30" - "her scumgames onsite are horribly outdated"

- my read on skitter: are we comfortable betting the game on town-skitter? i didn't play with her in 711 (i honestly didn't read most of her posts because walls) so all i have is cold meta

Cold meta

Neapolitan NEEDS to check skitter30 if there is one

we can take silence followed by a neapolitan flip to be immediate proof that skitter is town

Why asking an hypothetical PR to check skitter if she's prob!town from his perspective?

current scumteams I'm willing to consider:
skitter30/Scioness
skitter30/Drixx
skitter30/ofhrz
Drixx/ruru
Drixx/pintu
Drixx/Scioness
Scioness/NSG
Scioness/ofhrz
Scioness/pintu
NSG/ofhrz
NSG/pintu
ofhrz/pintu
ofhrz/ruru (bussing still possible)

He doesn't consider Oxy in any scumteams because he's conf!town from his perspective, while there are three options he would consider with skitter in it. Only flaw in this argument is that he considered NSG in three scumteams too and his read on NSG was indeed a townread, so this post is not that good to consider.

I don't think Dino's case on skitter looks like he was townreading her at all...

[pinturicchio]

THAT SAID i think she's towntold in this game in numerous ways that i'd have serious trouble seeing out of her scumgames without, for example, being coached by RC (a thing that happened once in what seems to be her best scumgame lol)

"serious trouble seeing out of her OUTDATED scumgames"

don't see myself scumreading her tomorrow or the day after except on rock solid PoE if she continues playing like this

so beyond "it's mechanically awful to lynch her later on if not today"

i literally don't see myself being willing to lynch her after today if i'm not even willing to make the mechanically correct call

that's why i'm asking you to evaluate that read

I'm not saying that his read should be considered scripture or anything, but he was pretty obviously town reading skitter.

Bolded my answer. But yeah more like not thinking that Dino was townreading her or not, I'm stating that his supposed townread on her would be the worse townread he has in this game

[pinturicchio]

pin or Oxy, if you guys have time, do you mind talking about skitter and scioness? This is where I'm at by PoE

I'm at PoE there too, but with ruru included. It's 2 in the morning here and I should be sleeping like at least 2 hours ago lol

[pinturicchio]

oh damn I thought you were about to tell me about an ofrhz scum slip, and I was getting really excited.

Same lol

Still pretty busy, but I'm reading everything so I don't fall behind that much when I can post again (I think I will be able to do it tomorrow instead of Wednesday!)

[pinturicchio]

I'm back. I'll reread from my last post and see if there's something I want to address

[pinturicchio]

Ok no I'm not capable of rereading right now, but I know that, while I read the thread this 2 days (irl days I mean) I got a good way of simplifying my reads:

There are 6 players along with me, 2 of them are the scumteam. Knowing that, there are 15 possible scumteams. But I can add some restrictions by including my reads:
- Oxy is town (obvious read)
- NSG (Dino's read, I already stated that not trusting Dino about this, knowing that Dino is town, is not a good idea. Scumteam confirmed town NSG by killing Dino. Yeah there's a chance of "NSG killed Dino so everyone would know that Dino was town so we would know that he was sincerely townreading NSG and now NSG is conftown bla bla bla"... bullshit)
- ofrhz most likely town

Now there are 3 players who could be the scumteam. That means there are 3 possible scumteams, and that's easier to analyze than 15 teams, but instead of analyzing, I'll comment where they are now:
- {ruru, Scioness}: Scioness is hard scumreading ruru, and thinks that her partner is between three players: Oxy, ofrhz and skitter. Ruru is scumreading Scioness too.
- {ruru, skitter}: skitter is actually voting ruru, and ruru is scumreading skitter too. Skitter doesn't like team analysis without a flip, so she's saying that ruru is her least townread of all at this point. ruru associates skitter with Scioness,
- {skitter, Scioness}: skitter is townreading Scioness saying that their posts are well composed and with a lot of logic behind, while Scioness thinks that skitter has been pretty townish, but by associations, she could be scum with ruru.

Now knowing this, how possible are this scumteams? From less likely to most likely:
- {skitter, Scioness}: They're both pushing ruru, and after that...? If ruru flips town, the next lynch would absolutely be between these two, so strategy-wise what they're doing would be suboptimal, as it would be too shortsighted.
- {ruru, Scioness}: a lot more likely, but at this point I'm trusting Scioness (a little) more than skitter. See {ruru, skitter} to know why
- {ruru, skitter}: I scumread skitter independently from any association, specially because of her behavior around Drixx' wagon, and her "until we get a scumflip I try to focus on individual scumminess and not choose who to vote based on associatives", while is a good advice, pings me a lot because she has only one scumread; if ruru flips town, then what? Still no associations. Also is pretty convenient not associating your scumread with anyone since then you can go wherever you want on the next day without compromising. The thing is, you know ruru is scum because she's your partner, so you being right about your scumread would give you credibility for any read you try to push on the next day.

So, being {skitter, Scioness} basically discarded:
- By PoE, ruru is scum
- By personal scumread, skitter is scum

Two important things to add:
- Ruru not voting and her partner bussing her could mean that, if there's a scum PR (roleblocker or rolecop), it's most likely that the PR is not ruru. Then, ruru is a Goon, and her partner the PR (if there's one)
- Eliminating Scioness by PoE doesn't mean I trust her, but in a world where she's town, my restriction of ofrhz wouldn't be ok (that's why I worded it with "most likely" unlike Oxy and NSG), and that would complicate the analysis; {ofrhz, skitter} would be a plausible possibility, and ruru would stop being scum by PoE, so I'll rather follow my gutread on ofrhz being town because I'd go nuts without that

Now, who should I vote?
- ruru is the safe vote, as voting skitter could still be risky with the possibility of Scioness being scum, but ruru is most likely the Goon if there's a scum PR
- skitter would be risky, but if she's ruru's partner, she is most likely the scum PR, which would be a better flip

[pinturicchio]

For the very little that it is worth, that night kill seems most beneficial to a scum team of exactly Skitter + Ofrhz.

Why those two? I thought it would be more convenient for Scioness + Ofrhz

[pinturicchio]

shitposting is the way to go

let's go guys i've already started

Oooooh boy I've been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh Lord!

[pinturicchio]

Oxy being alive in 5way lylo is sketchy. Oxy being alive in 3way lylo is even sketchier, and if he's town, should be an *incredibly* strong indicator that his reads are upside down.

I agree with this to some extent.

I agree with this to a large extent.

Nice WIFOM you got there

[pinturicchio]

pintu could you actually shitpost some crazy tinfoil hats?

I feel like people are pretty upset right now

I guess I could build a case with Oxy and NSG as partners in crime to make this game even more difficult to sort!

[pinturicchio]

@pinturicchio I beat you to it.

except it would def have been more beneficial for nsg+oxy LOL

I've been surpassed as the tinfoil master!

[pinturicchio]

btw

people
don't have
to write dense walls to 1 v 1

This is exactly why I think skitter's point about the intended 1v1 is garbage, and throws shade to the wallposters saying that its their fault that a lot of players are not engaging. Eth0s said he was busy, Dino did engaged, Drixx was V/LA and NSG usually plays like this.

[pinturicchio]

Lol

@Assemble I was trying to sort out how to use Mathblade's tool to make my own votecount and couldn't do it, do you use that same tool or something else?

I manually count each vote that took place between that moment and the last votecount.

[pinturicchio]

This is exactly why I think skitter's point about the intended 1v1 is garbage, and throws shade to the wallposters saying that its their fault that a lot of players are not engaging. Eth0s said he was busy, Dino did engaged, Drixx was V/LA and NSG usually plays like this.

hey, don't take tit for tat or this game as my normal play. typically i like to think of myself as more engaged.

I was thinking about Newbie 1851 more than Tit for Tat; I can't recall if you were more engaged there, but I do feel you definitely invested much more time to solve the game when it was going to end. In Tit for Tat you died too early to make a read on how you usually play as town

[pinturicchio]

Ruru voting Scioness instead of skitter pretty much confirms my suspicions. She could be either Scioness or skitter's partner
VOTE: ruru

[pinturicchio]

erm, if you still think she could be scioness' or skitter's partner, what suspicions were confirmed?

That she's one of the two scums, and that the other is in skitter/Scioness. Right now I suspect skitter being the scum PR and ruru not putting her scumread on L-1 is indicative, but there's a slight chance that ruru voting Scioness is her way of separating herself from her partner before being lynched, so even if I believe skitter is her partner, I think it's better to play it safe (if I'm wrong about skitter, we go to LyLo or MyLo and that pressure is suboptimal, especially with Oxy and ofrhz hard townreading ruru)

[pinturicchio]

Pin, stop being dense. Wanting to explore other things

before lynching skitter

is a perfectly fine thing to do.

And the things she wants to explore are good things to explore.

Bolded: how do you know she will actually change her vote to skitter? She's been scumreading skitter since D1 and when she finally can put her on L-1, she votes Scioness.

[pinturicchio]

so ruru voting one of scioness or skitter at all makes you think that she's scum?

No no, if she voted skitter my theory of skitter being the scum PR would've been disproved

[pinturicchio]

I guess I don't know the future, but neither do you!

No, but I see the past and the present of this game, and with that I can speculate the future. Past: ruru scumreading skitter since D1. Present: skitter at L-2 and ruru votes Scioness.

[pinturicchio]

so ruru voting one of scioness or skitter at all makes you think that she's scum?

Sorry double quote because I think I misunderstood your question.

I've already stated that my three possible scumteams are {ruru, Scioness}, {ruru, skitter} and {Scioness, skitter} (with the last one being less likely than the two first).

I've been sorting which of the three is the better lynch for today, now with ruru's vote on Scioness convinced me that playing it safe is the better option

[pinturicchio]

+1

This is how you should be looking at my wagon.

Also this from D1. I really don't think ruru/skitter is a thing.

Hmm, I also think there's something flawed with pin's thought process, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

OMG I totally forgot about that, and that could even make more sense for a ruru/skitter scumteam: skitter flips red, ruru gets even more towncred!

[pinturicchio]

Oxy you change your read on me like a girl changes clothes. Whenever I do something that goes against your reads, I'm scum; if I do something in favor of your reads, that post seems townie. What do you want me to do, to follow your lead? I can't vote ruru for some extraordinary reason I can't see? The lack of coordination is killing us.

@ofrhz you say there's one scum between ruru and skitter, I'm scumreading them both, why do I "really want them to be scum" and not just scumreading them both? I don't get it. If skitter flips rolecop/roleblocker, could you PLEASE reconsider your read on ruru?

VOTE: skitter That's L-1.

[pinturicchio]

Sure, but I'm getting frustrated that whenever I bring up scum!ruru, Oxy and you jumps and start throwing posts after posts saying why I'm wrong. I get it, both of you townread ruru, I'm not dumb. But my last analysis from my point of view gave all the explanations I had to give to make both of you understand why I'm pushing ruru. Oxy said my analysis was town motivated, now he says he has a slight scum read on me after I vote ruru (when I said in my analysis that it was the safe choice to vote so he KNEW I would eventually or possibly vote there), and you scumread ruru a lot and you reevaluated... So I get if both of you don't agree with my read on her, but not understanding where I'm coming from? Frustrating, to say the least

[pinturicchio]

@skitter you're disregarding the starting point of those "circular logic" reads. A circle has no beginning, and my reads have a beginning, you just decided that they don't. The circle you're mentioning is just me using cientific method to make analysis; I start with a hypothesis, I test it, see the results, I confirm/adjust/disregard the initial hypothesis. Me going back to my conclusions is not circular logic, it's me closing my case.

Hypothesis 1: Drixx' wagon was scum motivated. Test 1: look at Drixx as an individual; test 2: look at the players on said wagon. If test 1 throws Drixx no significant information that could make scum!Drixx a thing, then we can safely do test 2. At this point, I'm not townreading Drixx, but I'm not even scumreading him neither, so Drixx getting to L-1 was suspicious. Test 2: two of my most townreads are in the wagon, one of my scumleans and one player who I haven't sorted out. After some analysis, test 2 throws enough information to believe that hypothesis 1 was correct, with the two suspicious people reactions as the main reason to believe so. Conclusion: my gutread of the Drixx wagon is correct, it is indeed scum motivated, so Drixx must be town, and I suspect ruru and skitter (individually) for it.

I'm tired of replying to you because you clearly don't read the thread. You asking me "why are you not voting me if you think I'm the scum PR" is the perfect example, as I have addressed that at least 2 times now. You saying you've pointed out the circular logic thing: doesn't feel like it, I think you pointed it out ONE time and I ignored it because fmpov it came as scum trying to disregard my read on her. I'm addressing it now because I'm tired of people saying my reads are bad when I'm trying to improve in that matter.

Yes, I want Oxy and ofrhz to townread me because the lack of organization coming from town could lead us to a scum win; voting patterns from almost everyone are really messed up. Me voting you is not giving up my theory, it's playing riskier than voting ruru but coordinating with the rest of the town for the sake of it. "Why are you voting ruru instead of me if I'm the scum PR?" followed by "now it seems you're voting me because you want to be townread by Oxy".............

Case closed, I can't keep up the pace with your wallposts

[pinturicchio]

I'm sorry, I'll catch up quickly. I read all posts without really concentrating on them. I only remember something skitter said that pinged me like hell, but something that could prove town!skitter and that's fucking me up

[pinturicchio]

I don't think scioness is scum:

pin/ofrzh ----> I don't know why you're ruling this one out.
pin/ruru ---> probably not super likely given his ruru vote. Not enough for me to rule it out though.
ofrzh/ruru

Like none of these seem implausible enough for me to rule out.

If I absolutely must include scioness:

scioness/pin
scioness/ofrz

scioness/ruru ----> I don't think scioness starts a push on her partner just before deadline at the end of the day1 when she wasn't going to be around.

Ok here it is. Bolded is my point of inflection. Out of all the combinations skitter could've given her thoughts, she chose Scioness/ruru, saying that she doesn't think that's a possibility. Discarding the best alternative for scum!her just doesn't add up. The only scum motivation I see doing this would be if she's scum with Scioness and she tries to push a lynch on ruru today.

I'll have to reread skitter's ISO (again ) and see how it looks like from town!skitter pov

UNVOTE: Skitter

[pinturicchio]

Thought experiment, skitter is town, so is oxy and so is ruru. Who's scum?

You mean this? From her PoV, it would be me, you or ofrhz right? I think that an ofrhz/pin makes much more sense than a Scioness/pin pairing since we both tried to start a wagon on ruru at the end of D1 so it could be a reason to scumread us, so if ruru is town, that would be fair reason to think we are the scumteam. I mean, it's the same reason I basically assumed that skitter and ruru are the scumteam. Problem is, from my PoV, it would be even easier: if skitter, Oxy and ruru are town, and I think NSG is town, then the scumteam is ofrhz and Scioness, and this even match with Dino's read on D1.

But I don't want to do any experiments before reading skitter's ISO, because if she's town, it fucks up all of my reads (for example, you would become a strong townread and I've been scumleaning/reading you almost all the game... Imagine how hard is to reset after almos 70 pages)

[pinturicchio]

Hello everyone

[pinturicchio]

I think that an ofrhz/pin makes much more sense than a Scioness/pin pairing since we both tried to start a wagon on ruru at the end of D1 so it could be a reason to scumread us, so if ruru is town, that would be fair reason to think we are the scumteam.

@oxy

How does this fit into the 'ofrzh and pin are never a team' theory?

I disagree with this on a fundamental level, and I just made a post as to why.

If you forced me to analyze this statement,

From town!pin: The entire idea of arguing which person makes sense as your partner when you know you are town is kind of troll to begin with, so maybe that's where the reasoning ends. Otherwise, he just hasn't put much thought into it because why would he spend much time analyzing who he is town with, anyway?

From scum!pin: Attempt to wifom who his partner is - Did he say that scioness+pin would make sense because they are in fact partners, or is his partner skitter which is why he doesn't mention her at all

From town!me, it's important to address what people is thinking about me, to make it easier for them to sort me. I try to analyze myself even when I know my alignment to be the most transparent I can be.

[pinturicchio]

Help me sort you.

Are you scum with Ofrhz?

No?

Great! I came to the same conclusion.

Good talk!

Sorting me individually is not the same. I help you sort me by talking about what you or someone else is thinking about a possible ofrhz/pin team. Don't condescend me, Oxy, you know what I was talking about

[pinturicchio]

hi pintu are you scum?

No, I'm not

[pinturicchio]

Are you scum Scioness?

[pinturicchio]

Okay, I trust you too

[pinturicchio]

For the first time, I felt trusted in this game, and you take that from me that fast? Shame on you

[pinturicchio]

o, no!

i trust that you are town i don't think you believe that i am

At this point I'm not trusting my own reads so you not believing me makes sense. But I'm willing to trust you. You and skitter. And Oxy, in a less degree

[pinturicchio]

Not calling you out for something I called out for someone else =/= pocketing you. Second time I'm accused of pocketing someone, first was Oxy, now you. I'm getting tired of that. My reasoning this game seems off because your conclusions differ from mine? Just say my reads are shit, because that's what you're saying.

[pinturicchio]

Actually, I would really like pin to explain why he is now townreading (townleaning?) Scioness.

I'm not explaining anything to you or anybody else. I'm approaching this game in a different way now, because we are in page 80 I think? On D2, because we give too much space to people explain themselves and oh! We are all town! Wonderful! I'll talk about my reads when it's completely necessary. I'm not giving scum more platforms to defend themselves.

[pinturicchio]

Sorry, that came a little harsh... What I meant to say is, I'm not convinced at anything right now, sorry. Yes, I'm townleaning Scioness because I think skitter is town, and the interactions between them seems town from both of them. I'm frustrated because if skitter and scioness are town, I really don't fucking know what to do, and I'm trying to 1. Sort it out or 2. Sheep someone who seems to know what the fuck they're doing. The problem? No one seems to know what the fuck they're doing

[pinturicchio]

Scioness, are you abstolutely townreading skitter right now? If yes, keep talking

Skitter, are you absolutely townreading Scioness right now? If yes... You know what to do

[pinturicchio]

Ok, back to square 1. I assumed Oxy was town because he had too many townreads on early game, and kept him as obv!town for the rest of the game. Problem is, I linked this read with my read on ofrhz, because at the beginning of the game, I stated that if Oxy was scum, ofrhz would be his partner, but if Oxy was town, ofrhz would probably be town. What is wrong here? 2 individual problems:

1. Oxy being scum ---> ofrhz scum makes sense, but Oxy town ---> ofrhz town is not correct from a logic point of view (what I mean is, from a logic point of view, scum Oxy ---> scum ofrhz doesn't imply town Oxy ---> town ofrhz). I made a bad assumption, one that made me believe all the game that both of them were town without reevaluating during almost all the game. That reduced my lynchpool to three players, and made me read the game thinking all the time that everything Oxy and ofrhz said was coming from town, and everything that ruru, Scioness and skitter could be coming from scum.

2. From 1., you can see that I basically did a "town tunnel": I don't know how to describe it or if there's a word to say it better, but I tunneled Oxy all the game as town. I know that's not how that word is meant to be used, but I really don't know how to say it, do you understand what I'm trying to say?

And a third problem: I thought Scioness was town at the beginning of the game, but as soon as I started townreading Oxy, I assumed Scioness was scum because of the antagonism that both of them had been having along the game. Also, I must admit, I wanted Scioness to be scum because she's good at it, and I wanted to catch her... My bad.

From this two problems, I've been building a big snowball that crashed a few posts ago; skitter became my top townread, with Scioness in a close behind. What. The. Fuck. That changes everything from my point of view, and I don't know if rereading the whole game will give me the answers I'm looking for. But I know how I feel now:

I feel like I've circled back to oxy/ofrzh

Back to square 1. Both Oxy and ofrhz have implied (without foundation) that I have pocketed them, and that pinged me hard, both times. They tried to turn upside down what they were doing with me; Oxy left me out of his townreads until what, always? Because he has never townread me, he only says things like "I think I'm townreading you

more

", always leaving room for changing his mind about me, because "more" is not townreading per se, just "more than before". ofrhz, on the other hand, has been more subtle, but what pinged me the most is that, after a wagon formed on him for the first time, he jumped on me, saying that "before the wagon formed, he was metareading me" and that he found some inconsistencies, something that he never brought before, and he implied that I was pocketing him.

VOTE: ofrhz

This is L-1

[pinturicchio]

I'm having a little trouble understanding, Pin.

Are you town reading me or scum reading me?

Neither. I don't know what to think about you. My gut says town, but my brain is messed up. I'm inclined to believe you're town, but I really need a flip to start over. I want to think you're town, but I can't.

[pinturicchio]

You'll have a difficult D3 if ofrhz flips scum, but I'm not tunneling anyone anymore

[pinturicchio]

Lol I didn't read it as sarcasm and I was freaking out. Sorry, bad english strikes again

[pinturicchio]

NSG COME HERE PLEASE WE NEED TO TALK TO YOU

[pinturicchio]

I'm kind of confused why you're not voting, ofrhz.

Not really because I think not voting is scummy here

Just curious about your thought process

Wait, Oxy is right here. If you're town, shouldn't you be trying to build a counter wagon to survive? Or vote Scioness, whose wagon is already built and you have said that she's one of your top scumreads??

[pinturicchio]

I think Scioness is not a good lynch because I think Scioness is town

[pinturicchio]

Wait a fucking minute

[pinturicchio]

Vote Count 1.08

Not Voting [4]:

northsidegal, Drixx, pinturicchio, skitter30

Drixx [3]:

ofrhz, Oxy, ruru [L-2]

Scioness Sajj [1]:

eth0s

Oxy [1]:

Scioness Sajj

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

Day ends in (expired on 2018-04-03 09:00:00) on

April 3, 2018

.

This is after skitter unvoted Drixx

Vote Count 1.16

drixx [5]: skitter30, ofrhz, Mathdino, Oxy, Scioness Sajj [Lynch]

skitter30 [2]:

ruru, pinturicchio

Oxy [2]:

Drixx, northsidegal

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

Day ends in (expired on 2018-04-05 09:00:00) on

April 5, 2018

.

And this is the lynch.

I was so focused on skitter and Scioness today that I forgot about Drixx' wagons 1 and 2, for fucks sake, it's so obvious now. Oxy and ofrhz were both on Drixx' wagons, and are both voting now for Scioness. Oxy's "atempt to hammer in 48 hours" and now analyzing ofrhz again is so fucking obvious now.

[pinturicchio]

I reread what I posted and I think that's pretty clear what I'm implying. Not giving you more content to answer with wallposts and rethoric

[pinturicchio]

For fucks sake I don't give you anything and you still manage to convince me. Ok I'll drop that, and will stop looking for asociations until we have another flip. It's pretty obvious that the scumteam is doing a good job at doing WIFOM shit to either separate themselves or something like that

[pinturicchio]

What's your native, Scioness?

[pinturicchio]

Yeah skitter and ofrhz unvoted

I don't really know how lynching me would actually help here if you are not scumreading me nsg

Um, ofrhz hasn't unvoted, you're still on L-1

[pinturicchio]

For fucks sake, there could've been a lolhammer because Scioness saying ofrhz unvoted, that would've been the funniest and worst moment I've ever seen on this site

[pinturicchio]

@Skitter Cop and Neapolitan or Doctor and a roleblocker, Cop and Tracker and a Rolecop or only Cop with two Goons

P-edit: ninjaed

[pinturicchio]

At least I don't have to worry about NSG cuz tbh that's where my vote was probably heading.

Same, but of course, Dino was right

[pinturicchio]

And I realize that this is just going to look like I’m covering my ass, but I don’t think two scum would partner up together to push for a Scioness lynch.

Self conscious, huh? Don't you think that it's way more reasonable that both scum were on Scioness' wagon? If you're town, I think you should be pushing Oxy and Ruru, but it's too late to take that train for you. Who's your partner, ofrhz? Oxy or ruru?

[pinturicchio]

And I realize that this is just going to look like I’m covering my ass, but I don’t think two scum would partner up together to push for a Scioness lynch.

Self conscious, huh? Don't you think that it's way more reasonable that both scum were on Scioness' wagon? If you're town, I think you should be pushing Oxy and Ruru, but it's too late to take that train for you. Who's your partner, ofrhz? Oxy or ruru?

Sigh.

This post kinda makes me doubt that pin read though.

He's soft pushing a wagon on me, and I'm tired. I was right about Scioness and NSG, I'm pumped up to believe my own reads now

[pinturicchio]

Lol to the pin + ruru twice

[pinturicchio]

Yeah, can we leave this on standby until tomorrow? It's 1.30 in the morning here, and I have to wake up in less than 5 hours, and I'm only awake to see if someone do something stupid enough

[pinturicchio]

VOTE: Oxy let's go

[pinturicchio]

VOTE: Oxy let's go

This is a really bad vote if ruru is scum btw.

It might just be ruru/pin tbh.

You can ask me why I'm voting Oxy instead of keep "losing your townread on me"

[pinturicchio]

But yeah sure my other option is ruru so idk VOTE: ruru

[pinturicchio]

Ok, why are you voting oxy?

No no, we can leave it until tomorrow, this game's solved

[pinturicchio]

But yeah sure my other option is ruru so idk VOTE: ruru

EBWOP idc

[pinturicchio]

Ok, why are you voting oxy?

No no, we can leave it until tomorrow, this game's solved

I mean, you just told me to ask you.

The way you're behaving on this page is fairly parter-indicative of ruru tbh.

Gotta run, I'll be around later.

I started playing more aggresively because the game's solved from my point of view. I'm 100% sure about scum!Oxy now, NSG and Scioness conftown, I townread you, we win lynching either ruru, ofrhz or Oxy today and the remaining tomorrow

[pinturicchio]

I started playing more aggresively because the game's solved from my point of view. I'm 100% sure about scum!Oxy now, NSG and Scioness conftown, I townread you, we win lynching either ruru, ofrhz or Oxy today and the remaining tomorrow

In what world do any of these three people get nk'd tonight?

I don't understand your question, I'm talking about lynching, not nightkilling

[pinturicchio]

I started playing more aggresively because the game's solved from my point of view. I'm 100% sure about scum!Oxy now, NSG and Scioness conftown, I townread you, we win lynching either ruru, ofrhz or Oxy today and the remaining tomorrow

In what world do any of these three people get nk'd tonight?

I don't understand your question, I'm talking about lynching, not nightkilling

You said that we lynch one today, and the remaining one tomorrow.

There are three people in the pool, so this assumes one is night killed?

No, I said you're obv!scum from my perspective, so if we lynch you today, we have two more lynches; if we lynch either ruru or ofrhz today and flips town, we lynch you tomorrow and we lynch the remaining the last day.

[pinturicchio]

I guess there's no point on keep going with this. I claim Tracker. I followed NSG (sorry! I lol'ed when I knew that Scioness confirmed you too)

Oxy has been softclaiming a PR a lot of times and now that I know that Scioness is the other PR, Oxy's softclaims have no value.

I softclaimed on D1 when Dino replaced in

[pinturicchio]

Of course

[pinturicchio]

Mathdino replaces eth0s!

Pleeeeease don't claim tracker welcome Dino! You're here to conf!read NSG?

I'm uncomfortable with the idea of talking about the tracker in general, maybe we can discuss it at the end of the game

Two examples of what I'm saying

[pinturicchio]

And Oxy's cc is pretty obvious... The only way he would have a believable claim was if he claimed the only PR that can't be on the same game as a Tracker, and saying that he got roleblocked so he don't give no more info about the rest of the players is... well, obvious

[pinturicchio]

Oops forgot to change back to you VOTE: Oxy

[pinturicchio]

And yeah, ruru's posts speculating that Scioness could not be the cop, given the circumstances, I think both are scum. We won

[pinturicchio]

I played a shitty game

which included me softing very loudly

but im still nea

You saying you played a shitty game after being so confident on your reads doesn't add up. You softing very loudly came like three times on totally different situations, so clearly you didn't regret of doing it.

It's also the obvious play from the neapolitan to check skitter

and the one I was told to do in the thread

Another reason to fakeclaim Neapolitan: say that "I was told to do that".

[pinturicchio]

but I am 100% okay with lynching him today.

You won't lynch me today.

I'm just gonna take a break. Good luck solving this game. If ya'll end up scum reading me, make damn sure you give me 12 hours after intent to hammer, because I am 100% not the lynch today.

Also I'm pretty sure I get what you're saying ffs; you're being kinda blatant. Like hi I'm not voting you cuz of 547, and that's why I went through this whole thing last night and this mroning by trying to understand what you meant this whole time instead of just voting you for your pin vote.

I'm 100% not the lynch today because if you think I'm the scummiest person in this game you're off your rocker. On. What. Planet. Does. Scum!Oxy. Play. This. Game?????????????????????????

Oxy softclaiming. After the second softclaim, I changed my read on him from "townread" to "townread with a little detail". The little detail was exactly this: he was softclaiming without being the other PR

[pinturicchio]

That being said, my reads right now are:
Townread: ofrhz
Townread with a little detail: Oxy
Townlean: Drixx
Null: eth0s
Scumlean: ruru and skitter
Scumread: Scioness

This is what I said, and I said it like that waiting for Oxy to ask me "what detail", but he never asked

[pinturicchio]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAAHAHAHAHA

[pinturicchio]

No, wait! Lynch me, confirm my role and then lynch the other two!
VOTE: Pinturicchio

[pinturicchio]

VOTE: pinturicchio

why are you not conceding?

What's conceding?

[pinturicchio]

pintu

concede -> give up -> surrender

Oh! Then yeah, I concede

[pinturicchio]

I can't stop laughing at how this ended

[pinturicchio]

Yeah, I told ruru I would claim to win the 1v1 with you I was sure you were the remaining PR, but she thought she would be screwed on the 3p LyLo, so she tried to separate herself from me without asking what to do and she unintentionally solved the game

[pinturicchio]

if they flipped me first,

I think the ruru, ofrhz, skitter 3 way could have been ugly

That was my bet

[pinturicchio]

I never slipped. ruru was the rb. If it was me, I wouldn't have claimed tracker; I had to deviate the attention from ruru today

[pinturicchio]

I think the best bet I should've done was lolhammer Scioness and counterclaim Oxy on D3, but I was convinced that NSG was the other PR and that Scioness would claim VT

[pinturicchio]

Oxy softclaiming. After the second softclaim, I changed my read on him from "townread" to "townread with a little detail". The little detail was exactly this: he was softclaiming without being the other PR

you couldn't know D1 that Oxy wasn't 2nd pr. unless oxy claimed nea somewhere and I missed it

No no, I said that Oxy's softclaiming made me believe he could be the other PR or scum trying to make us believe that he's a PR, and your claim confirmed the second.

You see, I was really prepared for this moment

[pinturicchio]

You guys played a really good scum game

I know, that's why it's so funny that this complex game ended like this; it's so ironic I can't be mad

[pinturicchio]

Hey @Oxy, what did you mean about the AtE thing when I claimed?

[pinturicchio]

We killed Dino because he talked about a Neapolitan at some point and that was very specific instead of talking about a cop, so I thought he was the PR along with Oxy. I wanted to kill Oxy and roleblock Dino, but ruru was afraid of Dino and it was a good idea yo kill him and make Scioness even more suspicious. Problem is, when Dino flipped VT, it was either Scioness or NSG the other PR, so I had to push skitter. Along the way I saw that skitter was playing too good, so I thought it would be a good idea to "reconsider my reads" and go for ofrhz, the obv!VT. WE WERE SO CLOSE

[pinturicchio]

@Dino, were you reading the game after dying? What do you think about my scumgame here compared to Tit for Tat?

[pinturicchio]

@skitter about my backwards reads...
I don't think I make them only as scum, but thanks for the advice to get better at making reads!

[pinturicchio]

ah the Oxy thing well, all the lamist things he said felt forced to me and that tunnel and people scumreading me for I still don't really know for what that early in the game.

I felt that I needed him gone to play the game it didn't really matter to me if he was town or scum when I posted my case, so that probably also this.
and I was overproducing content becuase I thought that people didn't understand me becuase I can't speak enlgish. Idk, d1 was awful for me.

I feel you. That's why I wrote #486 to you, it was obvious that you weren't having fun at that point

[pinturicchio]

That being said: hi NSG, welcome! I think this is the best replacement we could get for this game!

flattering!

can i assume from you saying this that you're not scared of me catching you like last time?

Haha I just meant that you have great reads, and I know that because of that game. But I'll give you that: neither as town or scum I would be scared as I learnt a lot from than game!

Just wanted to say that post 308 was the post that scared me the most in this game, and that 322 was the reply I took the longest to think what to say

[pinturicchio]

I'm in, brassherald is a fine chap, the setup seems fun and it looks like we're dominating the queue

[pinturicchio]

Does it say anywhere how long are days? I kind of want to sign but I don't know how much of a time commitment it would be

Also I don't want to ruin the game by making pin replace out if we both roll scum

Lol ruru, I loved playing with you, including you throwing the game, that was a good laugh

[pinturicchio]

LOL ruru

I feel like I need to play another newb game cuz I didn’t play well this game. But I’ll be cheering all of you on from the sidelines!

You should play with us ofrhz. My second game in this site was an Open game and one of the worst things about it was that everyone knew each other so I felt a little off there, but in this game you will know at leas 1/3 of the players, so it could be a great experience to improve. I'm still pretty newbie, Oxy is new too, so it won't be a overwhelming game

[pinturicchio]

Hey NSG, what was that towntell you got early from me, before you replaced in?

[pinturicchio]

That's a shame, really wanted to know what I did

[pinturicchio]

Damn, rereading the Mafia PT, I got right ofrhz, NSG and skitter being VT and Oxy being a PR; we were so close to hit both PRs on the first night, I can't believe how close we were of doing everything right

[pinturicchio]

I was blinded; I started to believe that NSG could be the second PR, so I wanted to have SS and ofrhz at L-1 to make NSG choose between one of them; if she chooses Scioness, we roleblock you again and kill NSG, ofrhz and ruru the most suspicious after Scioness flip, or maybe I gambit it and claim tracker early to make a 1v1 with you. If ofrhz is lynched, people suspect about skitter again or people suspect me, I claim tracker...

It was the perfect plan, until Scioness claimed Cop

[pinturicchio]

Yeah, thanks Assemble, it was a great game, clearly the game I've enjoyed the most since I got here! Thanks to everyone for this, too!