The Resistance #1: 7p (GAME OVER)

[Pine]

Ummm I'll vote for myself, but I'm not super comfortable with how easy it's been to run up this pairing.

[Pine]

Okay, okay....I'm getting it.

So if pine and I go.....and the thing gets sabatoged....then we know pine is definitely scum....and we don't send him on any more missions?
But if we pull it off, we are both conftown?

Sounds good.
VOTE: camn, Pine

Bolded in particular puts me off of Camn

[Pine]

Antinom Camn, fwiw

[Pine]

Yeah I could go on a mission with Alibae. E was first to suggest Pine/Camn, so I'm not worried about oportunism. The worst is on my watchlist though.

[Pine]

VOTE: Pine, ENAC

[Pine]

hardclaim miller

VOTE: Camn Pine
great vote

It also occurs to me that anyone who immediately votes for a pair that doesn't include themself is suspect. I know my position is that fully HALF of you are scum, so there's something in the neighborhood of a 75-80% chance that any random two contains scum (I don't remember how to do permutations, gimme a break on the math)

[Pine]

Well, given that the only people who haven't nommed me are you and the girl who hasn't posted yet (nancy) I have to wonder what your concern is. There aren't five scum.

Remember they don't need to have two spies on the roster. I'm more concerned with who people want to pair me with.

[Pine]

I do also want to point out I had plenty of opportunity to hammer Camn/Pine.

[Pine]

^nope

One down

[Pine]

Yeah, nancy's entrance feels contrived. Jury's out on Camn. That recent stuff feels like buddying. Not sure they're a team though, that doesn't look like distancing?

Town looks like Ali/Eddie, Ausuka (paranoia feels genuine) and I...which is probably all we need.

Scumzorz the worst, {Camn/nancy}

Keychain I could go either way on.

[Pine]

Lolnope

Theworst + nancy team TAKE IT TO THE BANK

That most recent from worst is transparent as fuck

[Pine]

Ofc not. I rather like and respect you.

However, boldness is a key scum trait, esp in micros. I think you're trying to push it there.

[Pine]

you know there's 3 scum right pine?

the way you did your reads list made it look like you thought it was tw + one of camn and nancy and then nancy + tw

No no, the list is incomplete. I haven't nailed down the Camn/Keychain dynamic. Camn's looking Townish in light of worst there, so my best guess rn is nancy, worst, keychain

[Pine]

Yeah 2200ish posts over 2.5y is comfortably not a newbie. Respect.

[Pine]

VOTE: Pine, Enac Eidde, Ausuka

Keep it rolling.

[Pine]

Hmmm. You have a point. We can always revert if another group doesn't work out.

How about

VOTE: nancy, Pine, Enac ?

Then when there's a sabotage we know to cross her off the list. We make sure not to send the worst or nancy on the N4 mission, so the third scum can't disrupt on their own. If she refrains from sabotaging, we get a point and only need one more, send our best TRs to N4 for the win. Do something similar N3. Essentially force them to sabotage or lose outright.

Positively sorting two scum here is essentially a win.

[Pine]

Well, not really.

[Pine]

Wait you're right.

VOTE: Pine, Enac, Ausuka

[Pine]

Is that different from the marathon we did?

[Pine]

I disagree. In fact, the worst endorsing Ausuka is making me have a little paranoia freak out about everything.

[Pine]

Alternatively: you are genuinely scummy.

Example: your above post does not contain an unvote.

[Pine]

Shit there's scum on the team. No way is it this easy.

[Pine]

Well shit. I was inclined to believe the nancy/Camn dynamic was scum/Town, but after that hammer with a sabotage, I'm thinking Camn/Ausuka scumteam, probably with the worst as the third.

So here's what we're doing:

VOTE: Pine, Enac, keychain

Lets us sort keychain, who I'm coming around to a Townread on.

[Pine]

Also 164 looks Townish, reinforcing my read on the nancy/Camn dichotomy.

[Pine]

Cool interpretation.

[Pine]

So uhh, this is still a thing.

Short deadline, folks. Let's get to it. We need broader participation. I feel like whenever a group is proposed that's bad for scum, they shut down and let the notion fade away.

Pine/Eddiehydra/Keychain. Disagree? Fight me.

[Pine]

I’m sorry, did I stutter and say “Please let’s allow the overtly scummiest player in so he can sabotage?”

No, I didn’t. Take your naked vote and quack off, you downy-feathered fuck.

[Pine]

VOTE: pine tw keychain

Nup sorry not falling for your scum smokescreen bs

This group will have 0-1 sabs. If it has one it'll be you.
U sp00ked?

So you’re voting for me to go on mission...but think I’m scum.

...WARNING...WARNING...

COGNITIVE DISSONANCE DETECTOR OVERLOAD

[Pine]

I’m sorry man, but the classic tells are old, but they’re classic for a reason. You done fucked up right there

[Pine]

Sorry to multipost, but I’m stoked at having nailed the worst with one of the oldest tells in the book. That is 100%, take it to the bank, invest your life savings in it scum.

PE: what the actual fuck, Eddie.

[Pine]

...that’s fair.

I may be a bit confbiased

[Pine]

nancy your name autocorrects to capital. I have to actively tell it not to.

Eddie hydra, can you talk more please? You’re making a lot of tightly-parsed statements.

[Pine]

I read the spoiler for nancy
Am I a bad person

Yes. But not for that

[Pine]

I read the spoiler for nancy
Am I a bad person

Yes. But not for that

>; still friends?

Of course! My antipathy here is only because you’re scum

[Pine]

I read the spoiler for nancy
Am I a bad person

Yes. But not for that

>; still friends?

Of course! My antipathy here is only because you’re scum

...that’s fair.

I may be a bit confbiased

JESUS FUCK PINE

I’m sorry, I don’t see him not scum here. I tried to back off, but he’s so clearly pandering to you.

[Pine]

I sees what I sees.

[Pine]

I fucking hate you all.

[Pine]

I'm sorry, I can't endorse {camn, nancy, keychain}

I'm almost positive that {camn, nancy} contains one scum, and that set doesn't let us sort, it just costs us a point.

[Pine]

Eddie, jam with me here a bit. Ali's craziness has shaken my confidence in your slot, but it's not gone completely.

Leave aside tw. My opinion there is known, but we don't have to agree. Which of {camn, nancy} do you think is scum? I'm thinking nancy.

[Pine]

Hmmm. Well then let's not send either of them.

[Pine]

The problem with sending them both is that we can't sort them if they sabotage. We're just left with "yep there's a scum".

[Pine]

Go away duckling

[Pine]

Wait why would scum!tw want in with {camn, nancy}

Ideal for scum would be having only one of them go, so there's no confusion as to who's sabotaging.

This is making me reconsider my reads.

I'm just not sure if I need to rethink tw or camn/nancy

[Pine]

Unvote

[Pine]

Actually I had a "fine I'll stop ripping on tw" moment at Alibae's request. Now I'm having an actual moment of self-doubt.

Shush. I don't trust you yet.

[Pine]

7 players, 3 scum

++{Enac, Pine} = no sabotage
-----Enac either Town or scum trying to be clever. Jives with TR on Enac

++{Enac, Pine, Ausuka} = 1 sabotage
-----At least one of Enac/Ausuka is scum. Unlikely both, as sabotaging here would be a critical necessity, and odds of both sabotaging together is high. Scumteam likely would have avoided putting in them in that position.

>>>Conclusion #1: At least one of Enac/Ausuka is scum.
>>>Conclusion #2: Enac and Ausuka likely not scum together.

Enac - Strong TR, supported by circumstantial evidence
Ausuka - Initial TR, contradicted by circumstantial evidence
Keychain - Weak TR
camn - Weak TR, interactions suggest not scum with nancy
nancy - Weak SR, interactions suggest not scum with camn
the worst - Strong SR, recent evidence demanding reconsideration.

++the worst angling to get on team with {camn, nancy}.
-----This makes no sense if {camn, nancy} contains one scum and tw is scum. Even less sense if all three are scum.

>>>Conclusion #3: {camn, nancy, the worst} contains at most one scum.
>>>Conclusion #4: {camn, nancy, the worst} almost certainly contains exactly one scum.
>>>Conclusion #5: {Enac, Ausuka, keychain} almost certainly contains exactly two scum
>>>Conclusion #6: the worst is probably, begrudgingly Town

++Given earlier evidence and the combination of above conclusions, the scumteam is probably {Ausuka, keychain, one of camn/nancy}

>>>Conclusion #7: Town is most likely Pine, Enac, the worst, and one of camn/nancy.

[Pine]

back to worst key pine it is

I am entirely capable of rationally reconsidering strongly-held views, but only when presented with contradictory evidence. the worst's recent actions constitute sufficient evidence.

[Pine]

having 2 scum go is fine lol and your theory doesn't make sense with your entire scum team supporting camn Nancy key which has 2 scum in your words

This is a good point, I missed that.

Hmmm. Will factor that in after dinner.

you're like. scum. thanks.

I'm not so sure anymore. Why are you suddenly on the other side?

[Pine]

uuuugggghhhhh I think there's a world where you're scum tho

Nah, I don't think so.

I still refuse to send both camn and nancy. I'm like 98% sure one of them is scum, and I'd really rather not have a no-information sab.

[Pine]

VOTE: Pine, Enac, camn

I'm pretty sure that's a no-sab team. I'm like 75% sure that the camn/nancy split is Town/scum respectively.

[Pine]

That's pretty close to what I have, though I think Enac is solidly Town. They didn't sab N1, and I'm pretty sure it was Ausuka who sabbed N2. Plus, I've had a pretty strong standard TR on them from the beginning.

[Pine]

Enac, now I'm going to kind of insist on you answering why you suddenly flipped from chastising me for hard SRing the worst to contemptuously SRing him yourself.

[Pine]

I'm gonna insist we do camn Nancy eddie

Oh great, the one that gives us no information and a guaranteed sab.

What a splendid idea.

/sarcasm

I'm gonna insist we do camn Nancy eddie

I'll roll w this

No. Bad. Stop it. Sending both camn and nancy doesn't sort the dichotomy.

[Pine]

the dichtomy is you and camn have a wolf, I dont get why you're so insistent on camn nancy

camn and nancy had some weird interactions D1 that makes me think they were SvT. I've been trying to sort them since.

So! Tell me about this camn/Pine dichotomy you just came up with.

[Pine]

It's not my birthday yet. East Coast USA. I've still got 36ish minutes of being 31.

But I'll be your friend! "Best" friend is taken, but I've got lots of room in my heart.

[Pine]

I'm so torn about Australia. On the one hand, I would love to visit and see all of the wonderful things you have down in Oz. On the other hand, I'm a fan of things not trying to kill me.

The most dangerous animal we have in central upstate New York are hornets.

[Pine]

Early interactions that I'm too lazy to look up. Trust me it's a thing.

Hey, check your role PM. Does it contain the answer? That would help a lot.

[Pine]

literally camn/nancy.
I guess kinda

you/eddisae

but that's by PoE only.

I'm starting to be paranoid about the bolded. Enac's behavior and unexplained read changes in the last page or two is kind of making me worried that they're afraid of a gamesolve in progress.

[Pine]

vc

Lies

[Pine]

if you're so convinced on pine/key/tw why does camn/nancy/key apparently lose the game?

hi

Go back to the corner. You already cost us a sab.

[Pine]

Link to game in question?

[Pine]

If you're going to use

someone else's

meta against me, I'd love to see it.

[Pine]

Seriously. Why.

There's no sorting there. Sab happens, we don't know whether to blame camn or nancy

I mean, personally, I think it's nancy. But I'm not sure.

[Pine]

?

[Pine]

What are you trying to pull?

[Pine]

Still refusing to endorse enac, nancy, camn

[Pine]

I have done so repeatedly

[Pine]

Will sort after work.

Pissed that enac/nancy/camn went through, no opportunity to sort nancy/camn dichotomy

[Pine]

Well bully for you and your confidence.

You're working on logical assumptions I don't share.

So please, stuff it with the insistence that the game is solved. Scum have two points to our one.

[Pine]

Keychain still sorted as scum to me, tw sorted as Town, and there's no resolution to my camn/nancy concern.

And, quite frankly, your flip on tw without stated reasoning, plus your overbearing confidence about your "solve," makes me really worried about my TR on you.

In other words, the same things I've been saying.

[Pine]

By my math, we need a full gamesolve now. We can technically afford to send a scum today, but then we're faced with the same dilemma tomorrow with no safety net. We're out of sorting opportunities because we squandered the D3 chance. If we send two scum we fail now. If we send one scum we fail tomorrow when we send the same group, because one scum does nothing N4 in order to pull the trigger N5.

We squandered D3 because there was a concerted effort to make it a non-sorting day. If we'd chosen right, we'd have had a point and three locktown, we'd not be in this position, and we'd have at least one more probscum.

So everything has to be on the table, including my prior reads. I'm concerned that, prior reads set aside, Enac is CRAZY wolfish right now. The bizarre confidence, the refusal to explain the flip on tw, and their push for a non-sorting team D3 makes me think I was wrong to be trusting them.

Am I alone here?

[Pine]

While fully respecting camn could be scum she's also the second or maybe third person to see common sense....at this point all I can do is vote with people who realise I'm town

Well fuck, now I've got to reconsider everything.

That's like, the scummiest thing I've seen all week.

[Pine]

Yeah, but the fact that you're more concerned with voting with people who TR you rather than voting your own Townreads is HYPERscummy.

[Pine]

lol this scumfuck







(nancy you're still my darling kohai but you a scumfuck here love)

[Pine]

also... stop inning to new games wtf? how are you real

I really should not be inning to games. I have a baby due in three weeks and summer camp a month after that.

A little pinecone yayyyy!

[Pine]

also... stop inning to new games wtf? how are you real

lmao I'm trying to stop inning for new games also I'm in very little currently and I only play with friends so...
Like I am making a move to a diff site that you may or may not have heard about.
It's a slow one but it sure is definitely a move.

Wait

Which head is this

[Pine]

also... stop inning to new games wtf? how are you real

lmao I'm trying to stop inning for new games also I'm in very little currently and I only play with friends so...
Like I am making a move to a diff site that you may or may not have heard about.
It's a slow one but it sure is definitely a move.

Wait

Which head is this

alihead

NO

STAY

(This is not to be dismissive of Eddie-head, I just don't have the same history with you as with Alibae)

[Pine]

2. Pine

My army of alts will all sign too

[Pine]

Sorry for no real content today. This is a busy week. Spring break camp, sonogram, etc.

[Pine]

Enac, I haven't agreed to your Enac/Pine/key/nancy 'solve' because I have doubts about all of them except myself.

My doubts about you are feeling more like twitchy paranoia though.

Long, weird day. This game requires hardcore, dedicated logic that I just don't have today.

[Pine]

I mean, even leaving aside my nagging doubts about you and the unsolved camn/nancy issue, I'm like 75-80% sure keychain is scum. She's mostly coasted and semi-lurked the whole game, and my PoE logic from before still insists she's probably scum.

Convince me otherwise and maybe we can talk about nancy/camn. Otherwise we are at a hard impasse.

[Pine]

Fine.

If you want to start there, convince me of nancy. This looks like her scumgame to me.

[Pine]

Also leaving this right here.

[Pine]

Boooo link fuckup. The one time I don't preview.

Also leaving this right here.

[Pine]

camn looks Townish in ISO. nancy looks scummy in ISO. However, I'm not amazing at reading either, but I am feeling 1 scum between them.

[Pine]

See? ^This is a scumpost.

"My whole suspicion of Pine is lazy OMGUS."

[Pine]

Hmm. Good archive pull. That post makes me question my camn read.

My nancy!scum read started with her "I AM TOWN" entrance. Go read that?

[Pine]

OH MY BAD

I IS SO SORRY

THIS MEANS nANCY!TOWN

/mildsarcasm?

[Pine]

Wolfread her at the time
then nancy made a post which made me feel kinda bad and not want to play
but that post was also kinda good and I read it
I think I value that more over her entrance

Which post

(Also, I've decided to entirely table my concerns about you. I'm essentially being asked to wager the game on you vs Ausuka, and Ausuka's behavior, especially lately, makes that a no-brainer choice.)

[Pine]

Okayyyyy I agree that the post in question is Townish.

But I don't see where you're getting the notion that scum!nancy couldn't have written that too. All she's really saying is Ausuka!scum, which could easily be a bus because she thinks Auskua's cover is blown, and comments on the two of us which could also come from scum.

So in other words, I don't really see what's so special about it.

[Pine]

Okay.

nancy doesn't bus.

Ausuka is scum.

Therefore nancy!Town.

Therefore camn!scum.

[Pine]

Ausuka

Pine

the worst

nancy

camn

ENAC EIDDE (Alisae + Eddie Cane)

Keychain

So {the worst, keychain} is 1/1.

Here's where we are going to (weirdly) disagree. I had tw as lockscum, and you called me to task for not being fair and rational. Then I saw something that was hardcore Town, and you suddenly flipped to scum!tw.

So. There we are.

PE I can't read Keychain for fuck, she's always been a PoE read.

[Pine]

Share with the class.

[Pine]

Actually...I think nancy might have it. My PoE has keychain and tw remaining, and I've been hard TRing tw for a while now.

Withholding my vote for now to encourage further discussion, but I'm pretty sure Pine/Enac/nancy/the worst is the solve.

[Pine]

We got there in pretty different ways, but yeah.

You know, despite all this angst, the only different between my reads now and the last dayphase is solving the nancy/camn dichotomy.

[Pine]

Well, always.

Just not here.

[Pine]

I knew it couldn't be solved by last night. That's why I fought tooth and nail against sending nancy/camn together. Surprise surprise, there was a sabotage, and we can't mechanically tell which of them it is. If we'd sent Enac, camn, and myself, a sab would have sufficiently proven camn to be scum. Now I'm wishing it were Enac/Pine/keychain, because that would be a definitive game solve.

[Pine]

Enac TRs nancy and SRs camn. We got there different ways, but agreed in the end.

Honestly, the fact that we have convergent conclusions with divergent origins makes it a pretty strong correlation.

[Pine]

I think that's the proof.

In this game, the final day is essentially "guess all the Town or lose". I think they don't believe it's possible, and so they're being low effort. I know if I were Town about to lose the game because I was the one the bloc was getting wrong, I'd be screaming my head off trying to change minds. They're not.

[Pine]

Yeah, there's that. But when you're in effective LYLO, you have to make some guesses that bet the game. I bet the game on Enac being Town, which led me to betting the game on nancy being Town.

[Pine]

Yeah... our thinking is lining up too well again.

I think I just need to stop being paranoid of you, mr evil tree

See, that looks like last-ditch buddying, and makes ME paranoid about YOU.

[Pine]

Why would scum me buddy you here?

I feel the answer is probably self-evident.

[Pine]

Yeah, that's not an effort to change minds. It's just whining.

[Pine]

I haven't voted because I'm not 100% on keychain vs the worst.

[Pine]

Ehhhhh, that's fair enough I suppose?

Pine/Enac/nancy/tw seems the simplest path, then.

[Pine]

VOTE: pine nancy enac tw

[Pine]

I was definitely signaling nancy to sab. I couldn't think how to signal camn. I'd established a preferential suspicion of nancy, so stating she was likely to sab was the only covert signal I could concoct.

Enac, you guys had me on my toes. Pushing the nancy/camn dichotomy was the best method I had for making sure one of us was included in the D5 mission. tw and Ausuka, I had fun with you, and painting you both into corners was tough. Keychain, you were tough for a different reason; you were kind of arms-length all game, and it was tough to fabricate anything either always on you.

[Pine]

Honestly, I didn't overlook it. I missed it. It's possible I was just skimming your posts, or perhaps just forgetful.

Either way, good on nancy for hearing you clearly.

[Pine]

Yeah, I'd like to try my hand at Town.