schadd_'s Mini Normal Review, May 2018

[implosion]

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Your "Normal Queue" That You Sent Me In November Again
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:59:50 15235379901523537990 ththth Thursdayth th12121523537990th
From: schadd_
To: Nexus

Hello!

Thanks for joining my queue! Please let me know, via return PM:

1. That you'll be ready to run your game when you get to the top of the list
2. How many players your game will have (13 or under for a mini; 14 or over for a large)
3. Whether or not you want the setup distribution to be open or closed, and what it would be - e.g. 10:3/9:3:1 etc. See this post for details.
4. Who your backup/co-mod will be, if you have one (compulsory for larges)
5. What, if any, other modding experience and/or commitments you have

Also, in order to ensure that Normal games stay "normal", we require that setups be evaluated. When it is ready, please forward your full setup to me, including the following:

1. Your opening posts (rules and flavor, if any). Remember: your opening post
   must
   contain a copy of your Vanilla Townie role, which will be public knowledge to all game participants
2. The complete text of all role PMs
3. Any hidden moderator information (this includes any possible result PMs)

As soon as they are available, your game will be assigned to a panel of reviewers who will check/discuss your game in a private topic with you. When they are satisfied that your game fits within the boundaries of MafiaScum's definition of Normal, they will let me know. Until I receive that go-ahead from them, your game will not enter the sign-up phase, even if you reach the top of the moderating queue.Once you've been approved, please post the role distribution in the PT so a co-/backup mod can take over in an emergency.Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks, and good luck

1. yes yes!
2. 13
3. 10:3. can i have a setup note that this game will not include any cops?
4. will not have one
5. mini normal 1982; no commitments right now

setup

1 town tracker
1 town weak fruit vendor
1 town bodyguard
1 town 1-shot rolecop
1 town night 3 vigilante
5 VTs

2 mafia 1-shot roleblockers
1 mafia 1-shot neapolitan

welcome to mini 6969: the chorus of outkast's

i'll call b4 i cum ft. gangsta boo, eco

mafia!

modded by: schadd

reviewers: andré 3000, big boi
shoutout to: rosa parks

i'll call b4 i cum
i won't just top over, out the blue (oooooo)
i hope that you do too
i'll call b4 i cum
i won't just top over, out the blue (ooooooooo)
no, after you

Spoiler: alive

(living players in default text, order of signups)

Spoiler: dead

(dead players, in order of death, with alignment, role, time of death, color of alignment

Spoiler: events

"Day 1 starts: (post number)"
"Night one starts: (post number)"
"John Tyler replaces William Henry Harrison: (post number)"
"Richard Nixon converted to neutral survivor and modkilled: (post number)"

rules, adapted from nexus's

--most important rule: be nice and don't be mean--

general:

- Please adhere to the site rules.
- Do not discuss this game of mafia outside of this thread.
- Day phases will last 2 weeks (or until a lynch is achieved).
- Night Phases will last 48 hours maximum.
- During night phase, no talking may be done in the thread.
- Do not quote PM's from the mod at all (real or fabricated). Paraphrasing is acceptable.
- If you have any questions about your role, or the game, feel free to PM the mod.
- "Bah" posts are not allowed.
- If you break any of these rules, you will probably be modkilled.

voting / player actions:

- Vote either with vote tags (VOTE: schadd) or with bold (

vote: schadd

). Note that I didn't include the underscore in my username; you may choose to use a string that will uniquely identify a player to me instead of the exact thing.
- Don't try to confuse me with your votes.
- You may vote No Lynch to Not Lynch.
- A lynch will occur once a majority decision is reached. If no majority is reached by deadline, then no lynch shall occur.
- Following a lynch, it is twilight. You may continue to post until I lock the thread and declare it night.
- If you have a Night Action, you may submit it from Night 1 and each subsequent Night (or whichever nights are specified by the role).
- Every night, if all players consent to a fast night by PM, the night will end earlier.

activity:

- You are expected to post at least once every 48 hours. If you haven't posted for 48 hours, I shall prod you. If you do not respond to the prod within 48 hours (either in thread if it's Day, or via PM during the Night) then I will replace you.
- As well, if you require more than three prods, I will force-replace you.

mechanics:

-

Aquamarine, 21B35F

is my color. Please don't use it.
- Confirm by how your Role PM tells you to once you are ready to play. Once there are 7 confirms, the game begins.
- Do not edit your posts.
- No impossible/hard to read text, or cryptography. For example, I would prefer that no font size smaller than the one you're reading now be used.
- The mod may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
- If you need to get the mod's attention, either PM me, or bold the text you wish to draw to my attention.
- I reserve the right to alter/remove/add any rules as I see fit. You will, of course, be notified if that happens, however.


Mafia may be able to communicate with each other during day phases, depending on whether they have an encryptor.

Nobody may use more than one action each night.

There will be 10 town and 3 mafia.

Nobody will be a cop.

sample VT PM:

Welcome to Mini 6969! You are a

Vanilla Townie.

You have no abilities during night phases but may talk and vote during the Day.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

Please confirm by telling me what the bolded green text says.

Welcome to Mini 6969! You are a

Vanilla Townie.

You have no abilities during night phases but may talk and vote during the Day.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

Please confirm by telling me what the bolded green text says.

Welcome to Mini 6969! You are a

Town Tracker.

Each Night, you may target a player; if that player targets someone else with a night action I will tell you whom they targeted. If they don't visit anyone, I will tell you so; if your action fails, I will tell you that you didn't receive a result.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

Please confirm by telling me what the bolded green text says.

Welcome to Mini 6969! You are a

Town Weak Fruit Vendor.

Each Night, you may target a player; that player will be told "you have received a piece of fruit." If you successfully target a mafia member with this action, you will die.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

Please confirm by telling me what the bolded green text says.

Welcome to Mini 6969! You are a

Town Bodyguard.

Each Night, you may target another player; if they are successfully hit by a killing action, you will die instead of them.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

Please confirm by telling me what the bolded green text says.

Welcome to Mini 6969! You are a

Town Night 3 Vigilante.

On the third night of the game, you may choose to kill a target player.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

Please confirm by telling me what the bolded green text says.

Welcome to Mini 6969! You are a

Town 1-shot Rolecop.

Once in the game, during a night phase, you may target a player to learn what power role they have (but not their alignment). Vanilla Townies and Mafia Goons will both return "vanilla".

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

Please confirm by telling me what the bolded green text says.

.

Welcome to Mini 6969! You are a

Mafia 1-shot Roleblocker.

Once, at night, you may target another player to prevent any night actions they have from working. Each Night, you may talk to your partners in [PT link], and you may also talk and vote during Day phases.

You win when either mafia control half the vote during a Day phase or when all townies are dead, or nothing can prevent one of these scenarios from happening.

Please confirm by telling me what the bolded red text says, or by posting in your mafia PT.

Welcome to Mini 6969! You are a

Mafia 1-shot Neapolitan.

Once, at Night, you may target a player to learn whether or not they are a vanilla townie. You may also talk to your partners in [PT link] during Night phases and talk and vote in the game thread during Day phases.

You win when either mafia control half the vote during a Day phase or when all townies are dead, or nothing can prevent one of these scenarios from happening.

Please confirm by telling me what the bolded red text says, or by posting in your mafia PT.

Welcome, rb1, rb2 and neep, to your lair! This thread will be open to talk and submit actions during Night phases.

Spoiler: rb1's PM

Welcome to Mini 6969! You are a

Mafia 1-shot Roleblocker.

Once, at night, you may target another player to prevent any night actions they have from working. Each Night, you may talk to your partners in [PT link], and you may also talk and vote during Day phases.

You win when either mafia control half the vote during a Day phase or when all townies are dead, or nothing can prevent one of these scenarios from happening.

Please confirm by telling me what the bolded red text says, or by posting in your mafia PT.

Spoiler: rb2's PM

Welcome to Mini 6969! You are a

Mafia 1-shot Roleblocker.

Once, at night, you may target another player to prevent any night actions they have from working. Each Night, you may talk to your partners in [PT link], and you may also talk and vote during Day phases.

You win when either mafia control half the vote during a Day phase or when all townies are dead, or nothing can prevent one of these scenarios from happening.

Please confirm by telling me what the bolded red text says, or by posting in your mafia PT.

Spoiler: neep's PM

Welcome to Mini 6969! You are a

Mafia 1-shot Neapolitan.

Once, at Night, you may target a player to learn whether or not they are a vanilla townie. You may also talk to your partners in [PT link] during Night phases and talk and vote in the game thread during Day phases.

You win when either mafia control half the vote during a Day phase or when all townies are dead, or nothing can prevent one of these scenarios from happening.

Please confirm by telling me what the bolded red text says, or by posting in your mafia PT.

any of the three of you may perform the kill, but none of you may perform the kill and use your secondary action simultaneously.

[player name] is not a VT.
[player name] is a VT.
You have received no result.

[playername] is a [the thing in their role pm after "town" or "mafia"; or "vanilla" for the VTs]
You have received no result.

[playername] targeted [playername] last night.
[playername] targeted no one last night.
You have received no result.

[implosion]

Primary reviewer: RadiantCowbells
Secondary reviewer: mhsmith0

[schadd_]

i was just thinking about this moments ago : O

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright fucker

Come mod song game or this review is finishing in 2020

[schadd_]

i simply won't

[RadiantCowbells]

Fuck

[RadiantCowbells]

Do I want to make town slight stronger
Maybe
Hmm

[RadiantCowbells]

Okay there's no day talk

Maybe we just pass after I check rules and pms

[RadiantCowbells]

Role cop is liable to get mislynched if.it doesn't guilty

Do I wait to add the missing roles to my program and test balance

[RadiantCowbells]

Smith I demand useful input

[schadd_]

my assumption is that 1-shot rb is kinda gunna be a guilty and that bodyguard is generally gunna be an inno

also assuming the normal change goes into play right now i will include a line next to the cop thing that psychologist isn't included in the setup

[schadd_]

o and weak fruitie is also an inno and n3 vig obv

[RadiantCowbells]

ya it gets lots of innos

[mhsmith0]

Smith I demand useful input

Useful input


I’ll check in tomorow this was a super late day for me at work

[RadiantCowbells]

I am willing to pass this if Smith has nothing to say in 48 hours.

[RadiantCowbells]

kk

i'll pass

[implosion]

Sweet.

I think you're welcome to still give more input if you want (particularly since mhsmith hasn't checked in with thoughts), and schadd_ is welcome to change things in response to that if you all agree, but there's no obligation to and signups will proceed either way. If it changes before signups complete then it can use the new version.

[mhsmith0]

Notes below:

10/3 games with 5-6 VT's, 0-1 goons (I'm using this expanded sample because 0 goon games are rare) (as you can probably note, my database hasn't bee updated in a while so it's not fully up to date but is still indicative imo):

Spoiler:

Game Lookup Vanilla Townie Mafia Goon
1401 Town 6 1
1456 Mafi 6 1
1460 Mafi 5 1
1480 Town 6 1
1481 Town 5 1
1486 Town 6 1
1496 Town 6 1
1511 Mafi 6 1
1514 Town 6 0
1521 Mafi 5 1
1543 Mafi 5 0
1587 Mafi 6 1
1642 Mafi 6 1
1658 Mafi 6 1
1666 Mafi 5 0
1682 Mafi 5 0
1688 Mafi 5 1
1700 Mafi 6 1
1709 Mafi 6 1
1715 Town 6 0
1725 Mafi 6 1
1733 Mafi 6 1
1740 Town 6 1
1744 Mafi 6 0
1747 Mafi 6 1
1749 Mafi 5 1
1755 Mafi 6 1
1763 Mafi 6 0
1782 Town 6 0
1786 Mafi 6 1
1817 Town 5 1
1823 Mafi 6 1
1825 Mafi 6 1
1829 Mafi 5 1
1839 Mafi 5 1
1841 Mafi 6 1
1844 Town 5 1
1865 Mafi 5 1
1866 Mafi 5 0
1923 Town 6 0
1925 Town 6 0
1940 Mafi 6 1

So in that expanded set, you've got a 13-29 town record. If I restrict it to 5 VT's and 0-1 goons (which is probably the fairest comparison point, as usually scum PR's are more than 1-shot), town is 3-11. As a 14 game set, that's a bit more doable...

Spoiler:

Town Wins
1481
jailkeeper, tracker, even night vig, 2x neighbors
vs goon, roleblocker, encryptor

1817
2 masons, 1-shot tracker, 2 other ??? roles since dwlee forgot to update OP and I'm not spending more than a minute looking it up lol
vs doctor, tracker, goon

1844 (hey I remember that one )
weak doctor, tracker, 1-shot gunsmith, backup, neighborizer/deneighborizer
vs rolecop, backup rolecop, goon

Scum Wins
1460
bodyguard, odd night cop, miller JOAT, 2 neighbors
vs 2-shot rb, neighbor, goon

1521
2 masons, even tracker, 1-shot bp, compulsive vig
vs goon, rolecop, godfather (mod wifom?)

1543
doctor, even night compulsive vig, 3x neighbors
vs nurse, traitor, joat
(not really comparable, neighbor heavy and a traitor game)

1666
tracker, 1-shot bp, cop, 1-shot vig neighbor, neighbor
vs godfather, neighbor, roleblocker

1682
friendly neighbor, voyeur, motion detector, doctor, 2-shot tracker
vs doctor enabler, rolestopper, vanilla cop

1688
odd night rolecop, even night rolecop, encryptor-enabler, backup IC, backup IC
vs goon, encryptor, backup encryptor

1749
odd night cop, 1-shot bp bodyguard, 1-shot vig, miller, whatever "party animal" was (night one mass neighborizer or something?)
vs goon, motion detector, ascetic

1829
2-shot bg, ascetic, 3-shot gunsmith, 2-shot vig, tracker
vs doctor, vanilla cop, goon

1839
IC, bodyguard, backup protective, neighborizer, tracker
vs odd night roleblocker, encryptor, goon

1865
1-shot novice deseprado, 1-shot bp, even night rolestopper, ascetic 2-shot watcher, vanilla cop
vs JOAT (track/rb/commute), odd night neighborizer, goon

1866
odd night rolecop, motion detector, non-consecutive watcher, 1-shot rolestopper, weak vanilla cop
vs modified ascetic (loses ability each night they make the kill), encryptor, 1-shot roleblocker

This setup
Tracker
Weak Fruit Vendor
Bodyguard
Night 3 Vig
1-shot rolecop
5 VTs

Scum
2x 1-shot roleblocker
1 1-shot Neapolitan

Two mid-range PRs and 3 kind of crappy PRs for town, against a set of 3 PRs for wolves, all of which are pretty limited. If weak fruit vendor hits scum, you’re looking at loss of a mislynch, ditto if weak fruit vendor simply gets shot and then it’s a night 3 vig shot (which may or may not get blocked or die first anyway)

If I’m drawing comparisons, I’d say that town power is materially weaker here than 1844, idfk about 1817 (but 2 masons and a 1-shot tracker is already some power, especially since scum tracker can easily claim and become by setup very likely scum, so anything more than utter trash roles means that 1817 was more town-friendly than this one), and 1481 had comparable-ish power on both factions. So basically just 1481 as a decent comparable that was a town win (even if 1481 had more concentration of power).
On the flip side, looking at wolf wins (I’m ignoring neighbor setups fwiw)…
1521 was more town-friendly than this one, and scum won
1682 seems… comparable-ish? Both factions have more *stuff* (doctor+friendly neighbor is an interesting combo, and motion detector + 2-shot tracker has potential utility even if probably they just derp=tunnel each other more often than not)
1688 seems more wolfsided than this one, not surprising wolves won
1749 seems comparable-ish, wolves won
1829 more wolfsided than this mainly because doc was situationally OP, not really comparable
1839 more wolfsided than this but not massively so given risks inherent in the weak fruit vendor
1865 didn’t have any super useful town powers, but lots of gated stuff with pretty decent odds of making/stopping 2 kills. A bit more wolfsided than this but not hugely so.
1866 was more townsided than this since most of the town powers were actively useful (weak vanilla cop > weak fruit vendor; non-consecutive watcher > tracker; etc) and wolf powers kind of sucked… wolves still won

I'd actively boost the vig and/or rolecop and/or nerf the scum team a bit. I'd say pick 1-2 of:
1) Make vig even night (i.e. his first shot happens earlier, plus if he lives long enough he gets another, and if that happens lolwolves)
2) Boost the rolecop materially, maybe something like 1-shot cop or odd night rolecop
3) Turn the 1-shot roleblocker and 1-shot neapolitan into goons

One thing I'll note that potentially helps town is that having a rolecop will create doubt around scum's Neapolitan claim (if made)... but I think the setup spec aspect is relatively weak overall if that's intended to be part of town's power (particularly since there's zero guarantee that the neapolitan even claims).

PS inb4 48 hours from thread open

[mhsmith0]

PPS if you guys want to run something that's (IMO) decently on the wolfsided end of things, that's ok and I won't object, but I figured it'd be helpful to lay out my thoughts now that I have a *BIT* more free time

[schadd_]

Balancing Act

[RadiantCowbells]

yeah my firrst impression was that town needs a bit more power

though I also, given that we're not trying to be picky about balance anymore, am kinda shrugging

what about making the vig a 3-shot vig or smth

[schadd_]

i think odd-night or even full rolecop is more in line with what im going for in the setup

the PR situation is odd and people will i think generally be wary of multiple investigative claims if they spring up, especially with a couple no results, but also between tracker and rolecop there are ways to piece stuff together

changing it to 1-shot cop would be bastard

i don't like powering up vig as much just because picking off any of the town PRs is smelly and especially since it's N3 it becomes rather unlikely that it screws up wfv

actually how about rolecop -> odd night and neapolitan -> goon

[schadd_]

my assumptions for weak fruit vendor are that
>people announce when they have received fruit
>the vendor will oftentimes be able to crumb their target effectively

[schadd_]

but yeah thanks muchly for those comparison games

[RadiantCowbells]

would prefer to cut a roleblock to a nea but sure