Mini Normal 2010 - Scientific Mafia [GAME OVER]

[TehBrawlGuy]

voyc
v coy
very coy

Obviously mafia, why else would you be very coy? VOTE: voyc

[TehBrawlGuy]

I mean the user not_mafia, which should have been obvious by the underscore between the words.

If you spoke up, maybe we all would've heard the underscore.

[TehBrawlGuy]

VOTE: tehbrawlguy
He told me he was scum

But it was in the scum PT so it's OK

[TehBrawlGuy]

VOTE: knuflanto

counterwagon

[TehBrawlGuy]

Generally, people make jokes like that for two reasons.

1) Lulz
2) For reactions/to break rvs

If it's the former, I amuse us at least. If it's the latter, posting something lets him look at my reaction and anyone else's.

[TehBrawlGuy]

I actually think my read on it is less important than anyone else's, given that we all have my reaction to it and these posts to judge me on.

I want to see what the rest of the thread thinks.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Huh, I'll bite. Why are you implying the vote is serious now? Why not state it outright?

[TehBrawlGuy]

Garuga, are you gonna stop giving us your thoughts just now that it's interesting?

[TehBrawlGuy]

Screen's probably town because of post #20. Feels town.

Fake
VOTE: Shoshin

Vote feels creepy.

What is it about this vote that feels creepy to you?

Do you not want to comment about anything else that's gone on so far?

[TehBrawlGuy]

Huh, I thought Byron made a good point, but that Sho's comment on Screen was fine, so I didn't put too much stock in it. The OMGUS vote is really weird, though. I can get on this wagon. VOTE: Shoshin

[TehBrawlGuy]

Huh, I thought Byron made a good point, but that Sho's comment on Screen was fine, so I didn't put too much stock in it. The OMGUS vote is really weird, though. I can get on this wagon. VOTE: Shoshin

Let me explain. Byron's voting me for townreading Screen. His explanation: Screen's town, I'm buddying Screen, so therefore I'm scum. My read on that: Byron's scum under his own criteria for what's scum and what's town, because (a) Byron assumes that Screen's town without any basis (he needs to do that to claim that I'm buddying Screen), (b) Byron buddies Screen by sheeping him (i.e. voting me), and (c) Byron claims that buddying is scummy (which he's doing) is scummy. This is precisely the type of hypocrisy that comes from scum because it's an example of someone's scumhunting criteria corresponding to their own behavior.

If we assume 10-3 and that Byron is Town, then the odds of any particular player being Town are 3/4. I think that makes it pretty reasonable for him to assume Screen or anyone else is Town on the odds alone.

I think it's a pretty false equivalence, what you did vs what Byron did. You called Screen's post Town without any other motivator, whereas he's scumhunting and his best lead assumes Screen is Town, so he's going with it, but his primary motivation isn't to establish Screen as Town.

[TehBrawlGuy]

I think it's a pretty false equivalence, what you did vs what Byron did. You called Screen's post Town without any other motivator, whereas he's scumhunting and his best lead assumes Screen is Town, so he's going with it, but his primary motivation isn't to establish Screen as Town.

I called post #20 town because it's a town-tell. The motivation was to get people talking about reads, to move away from RVS, to figure out who the scum are, and to eventually lynch them. And figuring out who the scum are involves figuring out who the town are. My motivation wasn't to buddy Screen. If anything, I did the opposite because I dislike his personality.

Byron's scum because his internal logic doesn't square. He said buddying Screen is scummy, yet he's buddying up to Screen. let me put this in more abstract terms.

You can't say player X is buddying player Y unless you already know (or believe) that player Y is town.

And if you think player Y is town, then you can't fault player X for also thinking player Y is town. But that's what Byron is doing. He's assuming Screen is town for the sake of scumreading me. In a way, he's scumhunting through associative tells, which is scummy at this stage in the game because the scum already know everyone's alignments while the town don't.

You do see how that's several steps removed from scumhunting as opposed to what Byron did, which is just directly scumhunting, though?

w/r/t the bolded, that's just incorrect. I've seen and done that many times before and it's not particularly uncommon.

[TehBrawlGuy]

No, what Byron did is several steps removed from scumhunting. I directly read a post as town. That's direct scumhunting.

Byron didn't say my post was directly scummy.

He said it was scummy because Screen was town. Byron's scumhunting only makes sense as an associative tell, and yes, associations are uncommon among townies at the beginning of a game. But scum do them all the time, because scum operate from an informed perspective, which means they're always seeing these sorts of associations, regardless of whether they want to.

I guess he'll have to clarify, but I read his 47 as exactly that. Byron, which way did your reads flow? Was it ScreenTown -> ShoScum, or ShoScum -> ScreenTown?

[TehBrawlGuy]

knuflanto is probably town. Very good point about BuJaber. Need to think on it.

It is a good point, but ironically, it dodges her commenting on the three of us (and also on Byron), so I'm not sure I give it townpoints.

Knuflanto, thoughts on a possible scum in me/sho/screen? Thoughts on Sho v Byron?

[TehBrawlGuy]

No, what Byron did is several steps removed from scumhunting. I directly read a post as town. That's direct scumhunting.

Byron didn't say my post was directly scummy.

He said it was scummy because Screen was town. Byron's scumhunting only makes sense as an associative tell, and yes, associations are uncommon among townies at the beginning of a game. But scum do them all the time, because scum operate from an informed perspective, which means they're always seeing these sorts of associations, regardless of whether they want to.

I guess he'll have to clarify, but I read his 47 as exactly that. Byron, which way did your reads flow? Was it ScreenTown -> ShoScum, or ShoScum -> ScreenTown?

I understand why Byron would say that Screen's townness makes me scum, because in Byron's mind, buddying is scummy. But why would me being scum make Screen town?

Better to let him explain it himself if that's the way it flowed.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Also how am I buddying with Screen? I'll admit I'm assuming he's town for the sake of the theory, but that's all there is to it. I'm not town reading him, I'm just making an assumption that could very well be wrong for the sake of scumreading you. This, more than anything else you've said, has come off super desperate to me, however weirdly enough I'm starting to think you're desperate town more than scum. I'll have to think more into this to decide if I'm actually confident in this read or not, although I'm still learning a bit more towards scum.

You defended Screen, said his creepy vote made sense to you, and then you followed Screen's vote. How isn't that cozying up to Screen? I get the sense that you're projecting your own motivations onto me.

Ok so his point made sense to me and I defended it. That isn't buddying. I'm not reading him as town, I'm assuming he's town. Me defending a point that your post felt out of place is different to you reading RVS nonsense as town-like with practically no explanation.

Also you really should stop calling his vote creepy, iirc no-one else has supported you on that poin

t. And that language man, creepy implies you're scared of his vote, and it really puts you off, which is quite a weird way to describe a vote, making it almost feel like he's onto you..? Idk maybe I'm reading too much into a single word, so I'm not too confident in that read.

I kinda will. I wouldn't really use creepy, but I actually agree with her that his vote seems kind of weird on a surface level. Given the baseline level of weirdness in his other posts, it's NAI, but still.

Hopkirk's 77 is a great post. I like his naked vote on me less, especially since that's the 3rd naked vote on me so far, but 77 is good enough I'll give it a pass.

Not a huge fan of how little content TiaM and Saudade have in their posts. Note that this is not a criticism of not having a lot of posts yet - it doesn't apply to voyc or knuf. I don't really want to swap votes right now though because giving them one vote doesn't do a whole lot. Would anyone else support TiaMWagon or SauWagon?

[TehBrawlGuy]

Note that this is not a criticism of not having a lot of posts yet - it doesn't apply to voyc or knuf.

Why group voyc with knuf?

Because they're currently the two lowest posters in the game.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Because they're currently the two lowest posters in the game.

Your point was that Saudade didn't have any content to his posts. Knuf only has two posts, but there's lots of content, enough to know he's looking for scum. But Voyc has less content than Saudade...

To clarify, my problem with having little content in your posts. i.e. making posts, and also having no content in them. Knuf gets a pass since has content, Voyc gets a pass because doesn't have posts yet.

[TehBrawlGuy]

VOTE: TehBrawlGuy

For reference, Garuga, this is the post where Hopkirk voted TehBrawl.

I misremembered, the post I was actually talking about was 81. I think the "find some town in the smart sheepers" bit is manipulative. TiAM is TwoInAMillion. In general, I think we need to wait on TiAM and Voyc since those two haven't posted much content yet.

No. TiaM has been here since RVS, Voyc hasn't. They're not the same at all.

[TehBrawlGuy]

I didn't. Scum doesn't care whether or not they're defending you there, they care that Screen is a non-offensive place to vote-park that doesn't disrupt any of the major wagons too much. Thinking about it, I actually like that vote even less. VOTE: TiaM Let's go.

[TehBrawlGuy]

No. TiaM has been here since RVS, Voyc hasn't. They're not the same at all.

True. After checking his ISO, I found out Gustavo has even less content than TiaM, and I don't like the way he checked out of the thread so antagonistically.. VOTE: Gustavo

I think his post voting Byron has content. I disagree with his conclusion, but it's still content. I also read Gustavo's tone as Town.

[TehBrawlGuy]

No. TiaM has been here since RVS, Voyc hasn't. They're not the same at all.

True. After checking his ISO, I found out Gustavo has even less content than TiaM, and I don't like the way he checked out of the thread so antagonistically.. VOTE: Gustavo

I think his post voting Byron has content. I disagree with his conclusion, but it's still content. I also read Gustavo's tone as Town.

Still has less content than TiaM though. 92 and 101 are his only 2 non-RVS content posts, compared to TiaM having 4 content posts.

Perhaps we see things differently. In TiaM's ISO, I really only see his first post as having any content. The others are pretty neutral points that don't really rock the boat that much.

[TehBrawlGuy]

oops I linked the wrong iso
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... b%5d=30239

[TehBrawlGuy]

I don't post shit just for the sake of posting shit

Ironically, that's pretty much exactly what I think 87, 89, and 95 were.

I didn't. Scum doesn't care whether or not they're defending you there, they care that Screen is a non-offensive place to vote-park that doesn't disrupt any of the major wagons too much. Thinking about it, I actually like that vote even less. VOTE: TiaM Let's go.

If voting Srceenplay is "non offensive" then it means that it's a good vote, considering I'm the first one to do it, and there's a lot of crappy votes out there. Trying to wagon me for a good vote is really bad. Besides that, there's nothing in my post that says I'm trying to be non offesnive, you are psychoanalyzing me and twisting my words.

It's not a good vote, it's a bad vote that's not obvious about being a bad vote. It's a pretty classic scenario, where Scum votes on a player who's playing weird/derp in a way that's NAI. Screen's been playing weird, and generally speaking, players don't take issue with votes on someone who's been playing weird. It's not a good vote, because weird =/= Scum, but it's less glaringly bad than a lot of the stuff Scum fabricate when they need to make stuff up, so it's usually safe.

Hypothetically speaking, if you were Scum, and wanted to vote to appear proactive without really changing the big wagons or sticking your neck out, what would you do? Cast a soft vote on an easy target, not really push it or do anything with it, and go on to make some neutral comments. That's what you did to a T.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Huh, he actually did it. I told him that it was a terrible idea, and to at least wait a few days to not disrupt the day, but he did it anyway. If this isn't some kind of mafia gambit, I do want you to know how obnoxious and self-centered your play is and how much I dislike it.

I agree that there's at least 1 scum in our group, but actually, I think there might be two. Screen's insistence on outing the group, along with the fight between him and Sho in the PT did not read natural to me. I couldn't post about this before, for obvious reasons, but I've had a bad feeling for a while. If they're both Scum engaging in a gambit to mostly clear one of the two, that makes all of it make the most sense.

Tiam, you said you would be my buddy.
Stop distracting from the found scum.

Look at Shoshin or Garuga

Which do you think. Has anything interesting been going on in the neighborhood?

Yes. That’s why I’m voting Shoshin.
I would think it’s why brawl voted with me.
It’s been silent for 24 hours now.

No, the vote was because of her behavior in thread. I'm pretty sure I covered this explicitly.


Sau's incredibly unhelpful, still, but his tone reads Town to me.

TiamWagon isn't going anywhere, and we can revisit Screen in the future. VOTE: Sho

[TehBrawlGuy]

TBG but you saying that now before shoshin flips makes you look more like shoshin's partner than screen. I'm happy assuming 1 scum among you for now. If shoshin flips scum the right move is to keep you both alive (TBG and screen) for one or two more day phases and see if one of you exposes himself.

I'm flattered that you think I have the stones to interject and mention there might be two Scum in the group after most people are assuming one Scum, all while I'm attempting to bus my scummate, instead of just like chilling out and scoring a million townpoints, but no. If I'm right, even if you kill me before Screen, we still kill most of the scumteam by offing the hood.

I agree, though, it's best to keep us alive a while and then go from there. That's what I was trying to tell Screen to do before he decided to claim us unpressured less than 72 hours after game start.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Setting up any lynches past today is an awful idea, with the sole exception of maybe lynching in the hood again if we ML Sho.

The real discussion should be on if we want to hit inside the hood today, or if we should leave the hood to sort more or to the PRs. Is anyone is worth hitting outside the hood? Outside of TiaM I don't really think I could get behind a non-hood lynch.

[TehBrawlGuy]

You are d deflecting the lynch. That looks scumy.

Yes, I'm trying to see what other candidates we have. If we off Sho now as the only major wagon, I don't think we gain as much as we could, especially if she's a ML. I'm not really concerned with how that looks, because I think the three of us probably have to die by the end of the game anyway.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Neither is acting on them prematurely. The three of us are still going to be in a hood tomorrow, and the odds will be the same tomorrow. There's merit to discussing our options, otherwise we lynch through the hood and there's not a lot gained because we've just lynched on the odds.

[TehBrawlGuy]

But I've been wanting to lynch one of you even before screen confirmed being in a neighborhood.

Shoshin is scum by play not just odds.

You have other suspects I will gladly discuss with you, but the lynch shouldn't change for today.

I agree, I just want everyone on the wagon to state some version of the bolded so we can look at this afterwards under that lens.

Thoughts on TiaM?

Oh ok, so let me rephrase my question, how does Garuga get tangled into this?

I’ll go ahead and announce the scum team.

Shoshin
Garuga
Brawl

We lynch Shoshin.
Vig Garuga
Cop brawl.

Gotta line up those mislynches amirite?

OMGUS much?

Considering he called my read on him fake with no arguments whatsoever, I'm not going to give him the privilege of a proper post.

In the event you

are

actually Town, you're not giving him the "privilege of a post", you're giving players like me it so we don't mislynch your ass.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Normally I catch up page by page, but I’ve seen some of the stuff about PTs so have more knowledge than I usually would.

@Boys: Bujaber townread earlier was for good thought process, asking questions that I could see town asking (aka that I was thinking at times), effort. Much more reason to townread him after the PT revelations.

Shoshin seems scum based on PT stuff as of p9. Rereading the first couple of pages and either Shoshin is unaware that 3 person neighbourhoods usually contain scum, or he isn’t trying to hunt in it like the other two are.

@Screen/Brawl- was there any mention early in the neighbourhood that one of you was likely scum?

Yeah, Screen had a tussle with me and Sho over it. Screen said our first priority should be figuring out who in the Hood was Scum, whereas Sho and I disagreed and said it should be in general scumhunting and reads development. My rationale was threefold:
Breaking the town out of RVS and generating discussion was the most important because it gets the whole Town going
We could simply wait and sort the hood naturally as info comes in based on our discussions both in thread and in PT.
Getting a case going on someone b/c they're in the hood or said something off in PT is not feasible without claiming, so better to wait until you can build cases off of in-thread content.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Nope I don't see those 3 together at all.

I think there is a big chance garuga is scum with one of them. But that would clear the other imo.

Like it's shoshin/garuga/x or brawl/garuga/x or even screen/garuga/x (kudos on the theatrics if this is it) but in the event that scum is found in the hood and garuga also flips scum they'd be a really terrible team if their 3rd member was also in the hood. I don't think the hood survives until end game. I mean I can't speak for anyone else but I'd be so paranoid if I was alive at lylo and 1 of the neighbors was still alive with me.

Again, brawl is on the list because of the theater.
We were having the discussion amongst ourselves in the pt.
As soon as I left for the night the stopped in the pt and moved to the main thread.
What motivation is behind that? It felt awkward and looks like theater.
Brawl is not as strong as the other two but it’s definitely worth an invest.

I can't speak for Sho, but my motivation was that Sho was Scum, and that you're either also Scum or pretty obnoxious/clueless Town and either way it was better to just do shit in the thread.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Look, Gustavo, if you're here enough to vote on the scumclaim, you're here enough to give us a few sentences of your thoughts. Stop being a dead weight slot.

[TehBrawlGuy]

That's all I was asking for. You hadn't commented on anyone besides Byron up until this point, I didn't know how much of the thread you'd read, and I don't like naked votes.

[TehBrawlGuy]

To be honest it'd be much better if we also managed to get something from you before the flip... that is if you're faster than the mod.

^^^

Again.
Garuga is a good vig shot.
Brawl is an excellent cop check.

Nah, I'm way better unchecked. If you clear me I'm just straight up dead. At least now the scumteam has to choose between silencing me and hoping I draw a ML later. Plus, you should be able to read me off my posts.

Voyc/Gustavo/Knuflanto are better cop targets.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Interesting.

Sho's other posts in the hood before shit broke down were early D1. They were asking what we thought of Gustavo, who posts sounded off to her, and saying she thought Garuga was scummy for sounding afraid in his posts around the start of Page 2.

Now that we know that whole thing was a bus, I'm a lot less gung-ho about ScreenScum. Especially weird is that Garuga seemed to originally be leaning towards ShoScum and then pivoted away from that to go onto Screen. That pivot makes a lot of sense if you're trying to force a ML, but a lot less so if you're just shifting from one scummate to another. With Garuga off Sho, that would imply to me that the other Scum was either on Sho, or going to join the wagon soon.

The final VC was:
Shoshin (7):Srceenplay, BuJaber, TehBrawlGuy, Hopkirk, Gustavo, Mumble, Garuga
and TiaM was on Sho until the last second when he pivoted to Garuga over the scumclaim.

Screen I trust more as stated above
BuJaber literally called the hood in thread, which I doubt Scum would do.
I'm town fmpov obv
Gustavo's vote came hella late on sho.
Mumble and Garuga are dead and flipped.

So to me, that means I'd wager one of Hopkirk/TiaM is scum, outside shot at Gustavo. I'm flipping back and forth on who I think it is between them, but I'm pretty sure Scum is in that pile.

[TehBrawlGuy]

I dont think anything of the swap to Garuga, because it's NAI given the scumclaim, I just want to say for the sake of VCA that we should probably treat ShoWagon as 8 people with you on it.

[TehBrawlGuy]

I really would like to vote brawl myself.

Would you guys believe me if I said I was a neighbor cop?

p. sure the combination of the two is non normal

also no because you would've copped me and know I'm town

[TehBrawlGuy]

FWIW I'm pretty sad people are just looking at ISOs and behavior in isolation to determine the last scum. We have 2 scumflips, go look at how your suspect pool interacted with the known Scum and vice versa and sort based on that. I don't think you'll be able to convince me to vote anywhere other than TiaM and Hopkirk today, so I may as well start on one of the two. VOTE: hopkirk.

Why can’t we start with brawl? I mean he took issue with somebody else omgusing and they flipped scum. Now he’s doing the same thing.

Coincidence?

I'm not voting you - TiaM is voting you. Are you even paying attention?

I thought this was confirmed 10-3 also.. but mod didn't specify so I guess in theory we could have another scum in the neighborhood.

I still think it's best to start by sorting out and lynching within voyc/knuflanto/music.
You and brawl can continue to sort each other through the neighborbood and we can come back to it once the player count is smaller.

That would require him to post in the neighborhood. He's made one post since the 10th, which was him asking me if I was going to NK him.
I don't think I'm gonna get anywhere on that front.

I thought this was confirmed 10-3 also.. but mod didn't specify so I guess in theory we could have another scum in the neighborhood

If it's 9-4 *

It's not. Mislynch D1 and misvig N1 would put us in MYLO on Day 2. There's absolutely zero way that's possible.

[TehBrawlGuy]

That's multiball. Multiball is pretty rare in games this small (because it's awful in small games).

Also, look at the wolf PM. Very obviously two partners.

Shoshin has been lynched! They were a...

Spoiler:

Werewolf Neighbour

Welcome, Shoshin, to Mini Normal 2010! You are a

Werewolf Neighbour

!

You are partners with [REDACTED] and [REDACTED], who are also werewolves, and share a PT here.

You belong to a neighbourhood, and your PT is here.

Your win condition will be satisfied when your faction controls at least half of the remaining alive players.

The game thread can be found here.

Please respond via PM with your alignment and role to confirm.

Night One begins now. Please PM me all of your night actions.
The deadline for Night One expires in (expired on 2018-05-16 19:52:33)

[TehBrawlGuy]

You were already voting him. What was the point of that little act?

I'm legitimately interesting in how you thought this seeing as it's not possible to reach that conclusion even if you mixed me up with anyone else, or a mixture of people.

Nobody was voting him.
I hadn't posted.

He's straight up just not paying attention. I hate the fact that I tonally read him as Town, and that I doubt that Sho would talk about only her scumpartners in the PT, or else I'd PL him for all his nonsense.

There is not going to be another vig.

No mafia protective.

That’s probably why the vig was gated.

We don't know this? Unless you're the last wolf, which I don't think you are...

[TehBrawlGuy]

We don't know this? Unless you're the last wolf, which I don't think you are...

We don’t “know” this but it can easily be assumed.
If there was a mafia protection mafia probably wouldn’t have been vigged last night.

Stop trying to shade. If you really want to be a tree, get lynched and leaf.

Yeah, clearly they would've protected the Ascetic Werewolf.

I think something like mafia JK could easily make sense.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Good morning scientists!
Garuga has been killed. They were a...

Spoiler:

Ascetic Werewolf

Welcome, Garuga, to Mini Normal 2010! You are an

Ascetic Werewolf

!

You are partners with [REDACTED] and [REDACTED], who are also werewolves, and share a PT here.

You are ascetic, which means all actions other than killing actions will fail against you.

Your win condition will be satisfied when your faction controls at least half of the remaining alive players.

The game thread can be found here.

Please respond via PM with your alignment and role to confirm.

Mumble has been killed. They were a...

Spoiler:

Town Odd-Night Vigilante

Welcome, Mumble, to Mini Normal 2010! You are a

Town Odd-Night Vigilante

!

During the day, you may talk and vote.

On odd nights (ie: Night One, Night Three...), you may select a target and attempt to shoot them.

Your win condition will be satisfied when all anti-town factions have been eliminated.

The game thread can be found here.

Please respond via PM with your alignment and role to confirm.

Standardly, yes. Confirmed if you read the role PM too.

[TehBrawlGuy]

I think that puts me at L-1?

It's a pretty awful wagon without any solid basis, especially given that I was townread by most of the game D1 and was pushing Sho all of D1. I'm pretty perplexed at why I'm not obvtown and why we're letting slots with 0 content in skate by, but whatever. Screen/Byron/Bu/Gustavo is probably a townblock, and be super leery of anyone pushing Gustavo. I'd start by lynching in the inactives, but if TiaM lives to LyLo, off him. Other than that I don't have much to say, so you all can hammer away if you're not going to come to your senses.

[TehBrawlGuy]

That’s the issue. You don’t know if Garuga was fucking with us or not. We have a mislynch, a couple probably. I’m not comfortable leaving him alive til lylo, and he will survive if he’s town. If this wagon falls apart the only other person I’ll vote is Tim. He’s either scum or really Fucking bad town.

I don’t think I’ve seen a worse player ever if he’s town.

I get that the point of this sentence was to slam TiaM, but if this is the depth of your experience, I think you did a better job at highlighting just how naive you actually are.

I also find it amusing that you think you've never seen a worse player, but are on board with the idea that my scummate claimed Scum unpressured D1 and outed the entire scumteam.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Look. This game is weird. I was legitimately busy last weekend and when I came back both scum were caught with a potential lead on the 3rd. You can disagree with me all you want but there is no way I’m ever going to put brawl as confirmed town and I’m not comfortable leaving him til lylo.

Clearly we don’t have an investigative or else they would have investigated brawl.

You can say I’m not scum hunting all you want but based on day 1, brawl is my desired lynch.

Not necessarily. It's very possible they hit one of the inactives instead, which is the better play, because you have content to read me on and you don't for the inactives.

It's also possible we have something like a Tracker, so even if they investigated me, they wouldn't have a clear because Garuga could've performed the kill.

Hell, it's even possible they DID investigate me, but are hoping the wagon shifts direction so they don't have to claim publicly.

we are far enough ahead, why not mass claim?

Definitely not. If we have any PRs left, this just neuters them, and if we don't, we confirm that to the Scum and they know not to play around them. I would wager we probably do, given the Ascetic modifier on Garuga.

[TehBrawlGuy]

I'm down to hop to vocywagon for now. I'm pretty sure our last is in hopkirk/tiam still, but I think the pressure on voyc will do us good, and she's not a bad lynch anyway. VOTE: voyc

[TehBrawlGuy]

well with voyc out...

VOTE: tiam

[TehBrawlGuy]

I don't townread the /out, but part of the reason I wanted to vote voyc was for pressure so she'd post more, and with her /out, that's resolved.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Seeing as there's 1 scum left, I don't think it's a key thing to note at all/larger wagon stuff isn't worth looking at

This is part of the reason TiaM's 480 pings me. At most, one person pushing him can be Scum, so as soon as there are people, plural, that are pushing you, at least one's gotta be Town. The blanket attempt to discredit the people against him is pretty weird.

[TehBrawlGuy]

I'm really not in a position to change my inactivity rn, and I feel like it could drag town down so,

@Mod, please replace me, sorry!

@Mod I think this got missed?

[TehBrawlGuy]

I'm here.

Happy with my vote. Would be willing to switch to NK15 but maybe that changes as he posts.

Still believe TIAM and Brawl are town.

Still think Gustavo is more likely town than scum.

Gustavo v TIAM is TvT and distracting.

People just need to make up their minds and vote. Town is ahead so it's natural to see some implosion. We need a flip or two to start getting consensus.

Brawl should be lynched when there's 6 players left if the game isn't over before that.

Pick one? Like, either I'm town

or

I should be lynched.

If you think I'm Town then it's a bad idea to lynch me.

If you want to lynch me, then you clearly don't think I'm Town.

Because it'a a policy lynch based on a dead scum's word. Which is like the lowest form of authority there is.

Usually, yes.
However, 50% of their statement has already been proven to be true, by the highest from of authority in a game- the mod.
If we do want to lynch them eventually... why not do it now?
A good question, and there is an answer to that.
Because their lynch is pretty much set in stone we might want to ask them if they are a power role or not.
If they are not we should lynch them right away. If they are(or at least claim to be) then Mafia- if they aren't Mafia - might be incentivized to kill them at night.
This is worse than them not claiming and not being lynched, however this does also apply to every other potential lynch with a power role... with the caveat that these people have to fullclaim.

Screen and I are claimed Neighbors, along with the dead Scum!Sho. Given that there's only one Scum left, and we both agree that we're Neighbors, I think our claim is pretty much ironclad in terms of role at least.

The real reason not to lynch me now even if you're set on it is because it lets me talk and solve the game, if you think what I have to say is valuable enough to say. (and when it was me vs. a wall of inactives earlier today, it clearly was) You basically treat me like a suicidal IC until whatever phase you're set on murdering me hits.

[TehBrawlGuy]

That's not what pecking order is.

If he thinks I'm likely Scum, but wants to lynch less useful or more scummy people first, that's fine. That's what I've been arguing the Town should do today.

If he genuinely thinks I'm Town, PLing me off the WIFOM of a flipped Scum makes no sense.

[TehBrawlGuy]

I disagree.

I can townread you and still lynch you as a policy.

It's like if someone claimed miller for example. You can townread them but it's not a good idea to keep them alive at lylo. They need to be lynched or vigged eventually.

Doesn't look like we have another vig shot so we have to lynch you later.

Also I'm trying to negotitate with the wolves that are hubgry for your blood to delay your lynch because I think if we lynch elsewhere we will hit scum before the time comes to lynch you.

Haha, this didn't clear it up the way you meant to, but it did. Ironically, I have always opposed policy lynching miller claims on the grounds that your own normal read of them should take precedence over everything else. This is much the same. I guess we'll agree to disagree.

[TehBrawlGuy]

This, folks, is why you run someone to L-2 to force a claim, not L-1.

[TehBrawlGuy]

This, folks, is why you run someone to L-2 to force a claim, not L-1.

You sound like you know the flip already

Odds are it's town, and music box isn't in my scummiest pool.

Maybe we win from dumb luck but I doubt it.

[TehBrawlGuy]

If this is a town flip we are lynching brawl tomorrow.

I'm pretty ok with this actually.

[TehBrawlGuy]

I can get behind Hopkirk wagon. My vca from d2 pointed to him or TiaM. VOTE: hopkirk

[TehBrawlGuy]

FTR I disagree that 578 sounds scummy, but I'm still content on hopkirk because of vca

[TehBrawlGuy]

I'll quote my old post here just to re-state it, but basically, I think you're putting too much weight on the hammer. Sho was pretty widely suspected, and with that run up to L-1, obviously going to be the lynch, so the hammer is free townpoints and/or free credence to Garuga's scumteam claim, depending on how he wants to play it. Garuga takes it there regardless of if anyone's on the wagon or not.

I think Garuga's earlier shifting between Sho and Screen, when the lynch was still up in the air, is far more indicative. If you go back and read it, it's pretty weird, and knowing Sho is Scum and Screen is Town, that makes sense because Garuga had to fabricate it. Why fabricate it, though, instead of just sitting on Sho without pushing to get free townpoints? If your partner is off Sho and wants to push elsewhere to secure the ML, you can just stay on. It makes the most sense to swap if your partner is already on Sho or wants to hop on her.

Interesting.

Sho's other posts in the hood before shit broke down were early D1. They were asking what we thought of Gustavo, who posts sounded off to her, and saying she thought Garuga was scummy for sounding afraid in his posts around the start of Page 2.

Now that we know that whole thing was a bus, I'm a lot less gung-ho about ScreenScum. Especially weird is that Garuga seemed to originally be leaning towards ShoScum and then pivoted away from that to go onto Screen. That pivot makes a lot of sense if you're trying to force a ML, but a lot less so if you're just shifting from one scummate to another. With Garuga off Sho, that would imply to me that the other Scum was either on Sho, or going to join the wagon soon.

The final VC was:
Shoshin (7):Srceenplay, BuJaber, TehBrawlGuy, Hopkirk, Gustavo, Mumble, Garuga
and TiaM was on Sho until the last second when he pivoted to Garuga over the scumclaim.

Screen I trust more as stated above
BuJaber literally called the hood in thread, which I doubt Scum would do.
I'm town fmpov obv
Gustavo's vote came hella late on sho.
Mumble and Garuga are dead and flipped.

So to me, that means I'd wager one of Hopkirk/TiaM is scum, outside shot at Gustavo. I'm flipping back and forth on who I think it is between them, but I'm pretty sure Scum is in that pile.

[TehBrawlGuy]

I haven't done anything to warrant being removed from the town pool. The people trying to remove me from it have basically no reasoning.

You haven't done anything to warrant being IN the town pool.

Claim order should be hopkirk because he softed and is on the block, then NK15, then Gustavo.

I think NK and Gustavo shouldn't claim today unless we pivot the lynch.

[TehBrawlGuy]

VOTE: tiam

fuckin' called it, guys

[TehBrawlGuy]

he's at l-1 then

[TehBrawlGuy]

What could he possibly say to convince you not to murder him? The only situation where his claim matters is if he's Town investigative and we're about to ML him.

I pretty much put that at 0%.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Universal backup, now odd night vigilante.
Will hammer in about an hour and a half since it seems pretty clear cut, but it's hard to type the vote right now.

Just in case we don't win, shoot someone tonight so we have a 3-man LyLo D5 instead of a 4-man MyLo. I'm probably a good candidate if we don't want to endgame me, since a PL won't get us much.

I think we win, though.

[TehBrawlGuy]

I honestly don't know if I played this game great or awful, although I haven't played in 3 years so I'd say with that length of a break I did pretty well (that's if the game is over as we're saying it is)

You did well, I think, especially with the Neapolitan hit on TiaM. You/Me/Bu did the most shit, imo. Honorary mention to Mumble for the vidge shot, but Garuga did make it kinda obvious.

town in general made me really sad this game, even when they were right, they were right for all the wrong reasons, and tiam flew utr for far too long

oh well, gg, and boy am i gonna feel dumb if we don't win here