Reviewed by Cheetory6, DeathRowKitty, and ErrantParabola
Mini 2011: Partition Mafia (Game Over)
Forum rules
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Mini 2011: Partition Mafia (Game Over)
Partition Mafia
Reviewed by Cheetory6, DeathRowKitty, and ErrantParabola
Spoiler: Players
Spoiler: Alive at endgame (including flips)
Spoiler: Dead
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Role PMs have been sent.
It is now night zero.If 12/13 players have not confirmed within 48 hours, night zero will be extended as replacements are sought.
Night zero ends at 7 PM PST on the 12th, in (expired on 2018-05-12 22:00:00).- implosion
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Note rule 5 in setup specifications:zMuffinMan wrote:VOTE: DV('s group)You cannot vote for players; instead, you must vote for groups. Votes must be of the form VOTE: 1 or VOTE: Group 1, for instance. Any votes listed for players will be ignored.- implosion
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Whoops. Deadline is in (expired on 2018-05-20 23:00:00), 8 days from the post opening the day at 8 PM PST.In post 27, Eddie Cane wrote:In post 25, implosion wrote:Deadline is in (expired on 2017-10-26 22:30:21).- implosion
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Cannot confirm or deny.dramonic wrote:@Mod: confirm/deny that this is mountainous?- implosion
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**************************ATTENTION ATTENTION ATTENTION**************************
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Groups have changed. The vote count has been reset.
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I don't believe any rules have been violated to the extent where action is needed, but will remind everyone:dramonic wrote:@Implosion: You wouldn't allow sexism or homophobia in a game and this is just a different flavor of the same type of bullshit. Do something about RMOJBe respectful of other players; do not insult them. Attack the argument, not the person.- implosion
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Group 3 has been lynched on day one. It contained:
dramonic,.Vanilla Townie
Pine,.Vanilla Townie
riku,.Vanilla Townie
SirCakez,.Town 1-shot Free Walker
Spoiler: SirCakez's role PM
It is now Night One. Deadline will be 11:00 AM PST on Sunday, in (expired on 2018-05-20 14:00:00).- implosion
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DeasVail has been killed on Night One. He was a.Town 1-shot Protector
Spoiler: DeasVail's role PM- implosion
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Group 1 has been lynched on day two. It contained:
northsidegal,.Vanilla Townie
Wisdom,.Town 1-shot Mindbender
Spoiler: Wisdom's role PM- implosion
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I would also like to give a shout out to all of you for letting me run a game with 0 replacements and 1 prod- implosion
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The theory behind the setup's balance is this: the setup at 3:9 with scum having no nightkill is very probably exactly 50% EV. A proof has still eluded me, but alas. Adding one townie and giving scum one nightkill probably doesn't change that EV very much; initially I thought that it might not change it at all, but looking at your math, it's accurate; it does swing the EV, probably ever-so-slightly, in the direction of scum. Probably somewhere around 55-60%. Adding the power roles is a boon for the town, on average, overall, I think; partially this is because of DV's role however, because his role was quite likely to be seen as town and was one of the most effective at actually screwing with scum want to do in this setup, which is sometimes to pair themselves with town. What happened as a result of this in practice was that town used group-switching roles to move around someone that they weren't sure of, but with DV's role, you could have, for instance, taken Wisdom out of group one and then just lynched nsg, or taken out whoever was towniest from group 3 and lynched the other 3.
Of course, there's always the potential for scum to do something like 1-1-11, or 7-3-3, or some other manner of ludicrous split; the power roles were partially put into place to give town some counterplay to that. The choice to give muffin's power as the one for scum was actually almost entirely arbitrary; I came up with flavorful names for all of the roles and gave scum the one that sounded the most scummy. I think all of them are useful for both sides. Cakez's is probably the weakest just because obviously it's by far the least flexible since it's the only one that has no choice in who it's moving.
This is me from the setup design topic back when I first conceived of it (actually July last year):Essentially, some of the ideas behind it:
-Nightless is balanced EV-wise when 1/4 of the player list is scum. Add in a townie and give scum a 1-shot non-game-ending nightkill, and that should remain close to true. From an EV standpoint I am actually extremely curious if the vanilla version of this would have a 0.5 EV at 3:9.
-Scum have many options: 1-1-11, which turns into wifom over "did scum put themselves in one of the 1s?" and will probably result in town lynching one of the 1s. One tactic could be to keep putting the groups as 1-1-(LARGE), forcing town to figure out the right time to "strike" and hit the big group. They could go for an even-ish distribution of 4-4-5 with one scum in each group; this leads to 2:6 or 2:7. They could go for one small, one medium, and one bigger group, and try to wifom from that. They could go for something like 3-3-7, either with all 3 scum in one of the 3s or with 2 in one and 1 in the other, so that town lynching the 7 would win them the game then and there, or they could all hide in the group of 7 together since town is pretty unlikely to lynch there. Etc etc.
-The hope is that the PRs give town just enough power so that almost all of it still resides with scum for choosing how to distribute players, but that town doesn't feel completely powerless. They could conceivably be extremely powerful. I'd likely give one to scum and the rest to town, so as to sort of imply "there's probably some of these in the town too!"
-It's definitely swingy, by design. Or rather, as you said, the mafia can make it such if they want. The game could easily end in a win for either faction on d1, although it'd be harder for the mafia to win on d1 than the town as they would have to convince the town to lynch a group of at least 7 people.- implosion
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I'm pretty sure your 5/9 calculation is accurate.
2:1:1 groups will still be exactly 50% EV. Town's optimal strategy isn't to lynch randomly, nor is it to always lynch one of the 1's; they can in fact choose any pair of people that they like as the two people to lynch, and then lynch both of those people. If both of those people are in the group of 2, they simply lynch it; if not, they lynch one of them that isn't in the group of 2, then lynch the other at 1:1:1.
At least that's one way to think of it.- implosion
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Serious bonus points to anyone who can prove (or disprove) that 3:9 (or generally n:3n) of this setup, vanilla, has a 50% EV.- implosion
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I have many many thoughts about this game in general but I am very happy with it as, at the very least, a proof of concept; I think ideas like this have a lot of potential to be generalizable as well. The idea of a pseudo-nightless game in which scum in some way control what sets of people the town is allowed to lynch all at once. Another example idea I had was imagine a 13-player setup where each night the scum arrange all living players into a circle, and the town has to lynch 3 consecutive players in the circle. Or where the scum puts player names into a grid, and the town has to pick either a row or a column. Etc, etc. I think this is probably more interesting than those ideas because scum are less likely to do things completely arbitrarily and are more likely to actually put interesting thought into how they're grouping people.
The issue with the d2 swap was that it put all of the groups in even numbers, analogous to putting a game in evens; a group of 1 is a great lynch for town in that situation because it at least will yield information, while a group of 3 is also very sensible because it only needs to contain 1 scum to be safe. Although it could also be said that the scum played around this very well - it was an effective tactic to rely on the swap to muddle groups that they made that were "bad" for scum.
Kokichi's role would never exist in this setup. It's far, far too strong if it gets a negative on a group of ~4 people; having 3 confirmed townies in a game that is effectively nightless, even if scum is able to kill one of them and group the others together with scum, is brutal. Interestingly if the town can find 2 confirmed townies and whittle the scum's numbers down to 1, they can always win by just lynching the group that contains neither of the confirmed townies. This gets more complicated if scum have multiple people alive, though. Though it would be similar with 3 confirmed townies vs 2 scum if there were 4 groups in the game instead of 3, for instance. 2 groups could also be very interesting; I enjoy that thought because it's basically a fair division problem with scum as the divider and town as the chooser.Copyright © MafiaScum. All rights reserved.
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