mastina's 13p Pre-Designed Setup


Forum rules
User avatar
mastina
mastina
She
False Prophet
User avatar
User avatar
mastina
She
False Prophet
False Prophet
Posts: 16052
Joined: October 7, 2016
Pronoun: She
Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Contact:

Post Post #2 (isolation #0) » Tue May 15, 2018 7:09 pm

Post by mastina »

Wasn't quite sure what the process there would be.

The setup I had in mind was:
Mason-Tracker
Mason-Vigilante
Jailkeeper
VT x7

vs.

Mafia Rolecop
Informed Mafiate (Informed there's masons in the game but not who they are or how many there are)
Goon

I believe this is Normal, and my mental math for it has it work out to be in the right range; the town's roles become really strong with one mafiate alive but otherwise have virtually zero synergy, and the mafia have a fair amount of warning about them and the ability to hunt them down effectively.

What I wanted to avoid was the scum having too many ways to counter the town PRs, but also give them some fair warning about them.
User avatar
mastina
mastina
She
False Prophet
User avatar
User avatar
mastina
She
False Prophet
False Prophet
Posts: 16052
Joined: October 7, 2016
Pronoun: She
Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Contact:

Post Post #4 (isolation #1) » Wed May 16, 2018 11:12 am

Post by mastina »

In post 3, callforjudgement wrote:So the setup's going to have to rely on town power roles dying early. I fear that the Rolecop might be too slow for that?
I considered instead of a scum rolecop a scum JOAT with the powers of Rolecop/Roleblock/(either strongman or ninja but not both), but was worried that'd overpower the scum by giving them too much of an edge over the town.

Do you think that giving them that power would balance things out?
Or do you think it needs to be Informed Mafiate + Roleblocker + extra scum power in the form of something like a JOAT(Roleblock/Strongman/Ninja)?
In post 3, callforjudgement wrote:b) cap the Vigilante's effectiveness to help limit situations where town is running away with the setup (e.g. making them 2-shot or odd-night; in the latter case scum wouldn't need to be as powerful).
I wouldn't want game balance to revolve around nerfing the vigilante by gating its shots (I'd opt for 2x over odd-night), but I am receptive to gating the vigilante for reducing swing, if you think that less shots would help lessen swing.
In post 3, callforjudgement wrote:As for Normalcy, I'm not 100% sure giving a player two roles, e.g. Mason and Tracker, is allowed
I am, absolutely, 100% positive it is Normal, since it has been done in not just one game but multiple prior games. I could track them down if it'd make you feel better but I know for a fact it's something which has been allowed through in the past. And I am fairly certain it was allowed without it being considered the graylist role, so if it was allowed before without it being a graylist role, then it should still be allowed.
In post 3, callforjudgement wrote:That said, I'm not sure how well this setup fits into the spirit of the Normal queue; it feels more like an asymmetrical multiball setup, it's just that one of the "scumteams" wins with town.
I wanted to design a game which had both masons and a vigilante in it but I wanted to have as part of the design the vigilante not shoot the masons; my solution was to give the vigilante TO a mason.

The other roles were designed to revolve around the resulting mason-vigilante. Masons are Normal and a Vigilante is Normal and I wanted a way for the vig to not SHOOT the masons (because while you can balance around the possibility of vigs shooting masons, it's something I felt players would be visibly upset by) and literally the only other way I can think of to have that happen is for the Vigilante to be an Informed Vigilante with the information being "You know that playername and playername are masons", but that'd give three conftown in the game (vig shot goes through, confirms vig as town, vig knows masons and vouches for them) rather than just two.
User avatar
mastina
mastina
She
False Prophet
User avatar
User avatar
mastina
She
False Prophet
False Prophet
Posts: 16052
Joined: October 7, 2016
Pronoun: She
Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Contact:

Post Post #6 (isolation #2) » Wed May 16, 2018 11:50 am

Post by mastina »

In post 5, callforjudgement wrote:So I'd say that we need to gate the vig so that at least they aren't killing on all three of the first three nights (which would lead to a runaway town situation if the JK managed to stop a kill); that's why a 2-shot modifier helps. If you do that, plus change the Rolecop to a Rolecop/Roleblocker JOAT, I think we're probably within range; I'm still a bit concerned about townsidedness but we nearly always aim too scumsided, so I guess that's OK. (Given that the Mafia aren't Multitasking, there are no loop scenarios that require special resolutions; everything is based off the Golden Rule. It's important that moderators know that the JK can block the RB if the RB is aiming for someone other than the JK, though.)
Hmm. Idea then. Would giving scum a minor defensive ability overpower them? What I mean by that is this:

Mason-Tracker
Mason-2x Vigilante
Jailkeeper
VT x7

vs.

Mafia JOAT (Rolecop/Roleblock/Rolestop?)
Informed Mafiate (Informed there's masons in the game but not who they are or how many there are)
Goon

The rolestop is probably too strong here because it blocks literally every town PR. (I'd suggest Asceticizer as an alternative but that's not whitelisted so it can't be that.) Doctor instead would allow both the tracker and jailkeeper to still work as intended while providing minor defense against the vig.

Alternatively, instead of protecting a scumbuddy the third power could be a Commute (should be weaker because I do believe that without said multitasking modifier you can't both commute and kill) or if that's still too strong Activated Bulletproof.

I think you can get the idea of what I'm going for here though: something built into the JOAT beyond the roleblock/rolecop to ever so slightly give scum just the smallest of boosts such that the setup isn't townsided.
User avatar
mastina
mastina
She
False Prophet
User avatar
User avatar
mastina
She
False Prophet
False Prophet
Posts: 16052
Joined: October 7, 2016
Pronoun: She
Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Contact:

Post Post #8 (isolation #3) » Wed May 16, 2018 1:00 pm

Post by mastina »

So, this?

Mason-Tracker
Mason-2x Vigilante
Jailkeeper
VT x7

vs.

Mafia JOAT (Rolecop/Roleblock/Watcher)
Informed Mafiate (Informed there's at least one Masonry in the game)
Goon
User avatar
mastina
mastina
She
False Prophet
User avatar
User avatar
mastina
She
False Prophet
False Prophet
Posts: 16052
Joined: October 7, 2016
Pronoun: She
Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Contact:

Post Post #12 (isolation #4) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:43 pm

Post by mastina »

My Role PM formatting may take approval. Especially since I can't find official word in the changes thread RE: daytalk. I'm writing these PMs with the assumption both masons and mafia have it, but that's easily changed.

Mason TrackerWelcome,
Playername
.
You are a
Mason Tracker
.

Playername
is confirmed town to you.
You may talk in this private topic with
playername
at any time.
During the night, you may target a player. You will receive results in the form of "
Target
visited
Playername(s)
", "
Target did not visit
", or "
No Result
".

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town player is alive.

Confirm via PM.

Game Thread link.


Mason 2x VigilanteWelcome,
Playername
.
You are a
Mason Two-shot Vigilante
.

Playername
is confirmed town to you.
You may talk in this private topic with
playername
at any time.
During the night, you may target a player. Should your action succeed, you will attempt to kill that player. You can only use this action twice in the game.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town player is alive.

Confirm via PM.

Game Thread link.


JailkeeperWelcome,
Playername
.
You are a
Jailkeeper
.

During the night, you may target a player. Should your action succeed, you will protect that player from a single attempt on their life that night. You will also prevent that player from performing any action that night.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town player is alive.

Confirm via PM.

Game Thread link.


Vanilla TownieWelcome,
Playername
.
You are a
Vanilla Townie
.

You have no special powers.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town player is alive.

Confirm via PM.

Game Thread link.


Mafia GoonWelcome,
Playername
.
You are a
Mafia Goon
.

You have no special powers.

Your partners are
X
and
Y
.
You may talk in this private topic with your partners at any time.

During the night, you may target a player. Should your action succeed, you will attempt to kill that player. You may not both kill and use another action.

You win if all non-mafia players are dead and at least one mafia player lives, or nothing can prevent this.

Confirm via PM.

Game Thread link.


Mafia Informed MafiosoWelcome,
Playername
.
You are a
Mafia Informed Mafioso
.

You are aware
This game contains at least one Masonry
.

Your partners are
X
and
Y
.
You may talk in this private topic with your partners at any time.

During the night, you may target a player. Should your action succeed, you will attempt to kill that player. You may not both kill and use another action.

You win if all non-mafia players are dead and at least one mafia player lives, or nothing can prevent this.

Confirm via PM.

Game Thread link.


Mafia JOATWelcome,
Playername
.
You are a
Mafia JOAT (Rolecop, Roleblock, Watcher)
.

During the night, you may target a player with one of the following abilities:
  • Rolecop:
    You will receive the target player's role, but not alignment. If your action fails, you will receive "no result".
  • Roleblocker:
    Should your action succeed, you will prevent that player from performing any action that night.
  • Watcher:
    You will receive results in the form of "
    Playername(s)
    visited
    Target
    ", "
    Target was not visited
    ", or "
    No Result
    ".
You may only use one of these abilities per night. You may only use each of these powers once.

Your partners are
X
and
Y
.
You may talk in this private topic with your partners at any time.

During the night, you may target a player. Should your action succeed, you will attempt to kill that player. You may not both kill and use another action.

You win if all non-mafia players are dead and at least one mafia player lives, or nothing can prevent this.

Confirm via PM.

Game Thread link.
User avatar
mastina
mastina
She
False Prophet
User avatar
User avatar
mastina
She
False Prophet
False Prophet
Posts: 16052
Joined: October 7, 2016
Pronoun: She
Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Contact:

Post Post #16 (isolation #5) » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:05 am

Post by mastina »

The listed abilities here:
Your partners are X and Y.
You may talk in this private topic with your partners at any time.

During the night, you may target a player. Should your action succeed, you will attempt to kill that player. You may not both kill and use another action.
Are all factional abilities, thus, the kill is factional, and limited to one person. (Not the best wording, but message gets across.)
Post Reply