mastina's 13p Pre-Designed Setup
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- mastina
- mastina
-
mastina She
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16052
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
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Wasn't quite sure what the process there would be.
The setup I had in mind was:
Mason-Tracker
Mason-Vigilante
Jailkeeper
VT x7
vs.
Mafia Rolecop
Informed Mafiate (Informed there's masons in the game but not who they are or how many there are)
Goon
I believe this is Normal, and my mental math for it has it work out to be in the right range; the town's roles become really strong with one mafiate alive but otherwise have virtually zero synergy, and the mafia have a fair amount of warning about them and the ability to hunt them down effectively.
What I wanted to avoid was the scum having too many ways to counter the town PRs, but also give them some fair warning about them.
The setup I had in mind was:
Mason-Tracker
Mason-Vigilante
Jailkeeper
VT x7
vs.
Mafia Rolecop
Informed Mafiate (Informed there's masons in the game but not who they are or how many there are)
Goon
I believe this is Normal, and my mental math for it has it work out to be in the right range; the town's roles become really strong with one mafiate alive but otherwise have virtually zero synergy, and the mafia have a fair amount of warning about them and the ability to hunt them down effectively.
What I wanted to avoid was the scum having too many ways to counter the town PRs, but also give them some fair warning about them.
- mastina
- mastina
-
mastina She
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16052
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
- Contact:
I considered instead of a scum rolecop a scum JOAT with the powers of Rolecop/Roleblock/(either strongman or ninja but not both), but was worried that'd overpower the scum by giving them too much of an edge over the town.In post 3, callforjudgement wrote:So the setup's going to have to rely on town power roles dying early. I fear that the Rolecop might be too slow for that?
Do you think that giving them that power would balance things out?
Or do you think it needs to be Informed Mafiate + Roleblocker + extra scum power in the form of something like a JOAT(Roleblock/Strongman/Ninja)?
I wouldn't want game balance to revolve around nerfing the vigilante by gating its shots (I'd opt for 2x over odd-night), but I am receptive to gating the vigilante for reducing swing, if you think that less shots would help lessen swing.In post 3, callforjudgement wrote:b) cap the Vigilante's effectiveness to help limit situations where town is running away with the setup (e.g. making them 2-shot or odd-night; in the latter case scum wouldn't need to be as powerful).
I am, absolutely, 100% positive it is Normal, since it has been done in not just one game but multiple prior games. I could track them down if it'd make you feel better but I know for a fact it's something which has been allowed through in the past. And I am fairly certain it was allowed without it being considered the graylist role, so if it was allowed before without it being a graylist role, then it should still be allowed.In post 3, callforjudgement wrote:As for Normalcy, I'm not 100% sure giving a player two roles, e.g. Mason and Tracker, is allowed
I wanted to design a game which had both masons and a vigilante in it but I wanted to have as part of the design the vigilante not shoot the masons; my solution was to give the vigilante TO a mason.In post 3, callforjudgement wrote:That said, I'm not sure how well this setup fits into the spirit of the Normal queue; it feels more like an asymmetrical multiball setup, it's just that one of the "scumteams" wins with town.
The other roles were designed to revolve around the resulting mason-vigilante. Masons are Normal and a Vigilante is Normal and I wanted a way for the vig to not SHOOT the masons (because while you can balance around the possibility of vigs shooting masons, it's something I felt players would be visibly upset by) and literally the only other way I can think of to have that happen is for the Vigilante to be an Informed Vigilante with the information being "You know that playername and playername are masons", but that'd give three conftown in the game (vig shot goes through, confirms vig as town, vig knows masons and vouches for them) rather than just two.
- mastina
- mastina
-
mastina She
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16052
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
- Contact:
Hmm. Idea then. Would giving scum a minor defensive ability overpower them? What I mean by that is this:In post 5, callforjudgement wrote:So I'd say that we need to gate the vig so that at least they aren't killing on all three of the first three nights (which would lead to a runaway town situation if the JK managed to stop a kill); that's why a 2-shot modifier helps. If you do that, plus change the Rolecop to a Rolecop/Roleblocker JOAT, I think we're probably within range; I'm still a bit concerned about townsidedness but we nearly always aim too scumsided, so I guess that's OK. (Given that the Mafia aren't Multitasking, there are no loop scenarios that require special resolutions; everything is based off the Golden Rule. It's important that moderators know that the JK can block the RB if the RB is aiming for someone other than the JK, though.)
Mason-Tracker
Mason-2x Vigilante
Jailkeeper
VT x7
vs.
Mafia JOAT (Rolecop/Roleblock/Rolestop?)
Informed Mafiate (Informed there's masons in the game but not who they are or how many there are)
Goon
The rolestop is probably too strong here because it blocks literally every town PR. (I'd suggest Asceticizer as an alternative but that's not whitelisted so it can't be that.) Doctor instead would allow both the tracker and jailkeeper to still work as intended while providing minor defense against the vig.
Alternatively, instead of protecting a scumbuddy the third power could be a Commute (should be weaker because I do believe that without said multitasking modifier you can't both commute and kill) or if that's still too strong Activated Bulletproof.
I think you can get the idea of what I'm going for here though: something built into the JOAT beyond the roleblock/rolecop to ever so slightly give scum just the smallest of boosts such that the setup isn't townsided.
- mastina
- mastina
-
mastina She
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16052
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
- Contact:
So, this?
Mason-Tracker
Mason-2x Vigilante
Jailkeeper
VT x7
vs.
Mafia JOAT (Rolecop/Roleblock/Watcher)
Informed Mafiate (Informed there's at least one Masonry in the game)
Goon
Mason-Tracker
Mason-2x Vigilante
Jailkeeper
VT x7
vs.
Mafia JOAT (Rolecop/Roleblock/Watcher)
Informed Mafiate (Informed there's at least one Masonry in the game)
Goon
- mastina
- mastina
-
mastina She
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16052
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
- Contact:
My Role PM formatting may take approval. Especially since I can't find official word in the changes thread RE: daytalk. I'm writing these PMs with the assumption both masons and mafia have it, but that's easily changed.
- mastina
- mastina
-
mastina She
- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16052
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
- Contact:
The listed abilities here:
Are all factional abilities, thus, the kill is factional, and limited to one person. (Not the best wording, but message gets across.)Your partners are X and Y.
You may talk in this private topic with your partners at any time.
During the night, you may target a player. Should your action succeed, you will attempt to kill that player. You may not both kill and use another action.