Mini Normal 2012: Tropical Mafia [Endgame]

[havingfitz]

VOTE:

^ get it?

Also...v/la till Monday.

[havingfitz]

18 is bad

I agree.

VOTE: Garuga

Serious vote.

[havingfitz]

Garuga's town.

I was going to ask why but you answer that later. I don't care for your reasoning...because scum wouldn't call out their own poor posting?

Sho: Why do you think Rampage is scummier? The only suspicious thing I've noticed up until now is TBB's OMGUS vote.

Rampage's entrance has that trying-too-hard-scum-vibe.

I don't see anything try hard in Rampage's first post. Did you find his explanation suspect?

Why is 18 bad?

You don't agree with the points Garuga himself makes on post 18?
I didn't care for it because 1) there was nothing wrong with my rvs vote and it felt like he was trying to start a non-rvs push on me for no reason. And the fact he actually gave a reason for suspecting someone else but stayed off them.

Neither did Fitz - why did you choose Invisibility out of the two?

The wagon on Invisibility seems more viable at the moment.

If I had to guess, I'd say the three votes on Garuga's 18 were town. But those are very weak reads.

I disagree. I think there was some malicious intent in the wagon against me.

My current pet theory on this game is that havingfitz was scum, my vote on him made Scumsibility worried and he wants to discredit me, and Sho is scum playing a different angle. These are very premature reads though.

You don't give any really good reason for suspecting invisibility...and you detail a theory on me for why I might be scum...but then you avoid voting me because you think the invisibility wagon has better potential? This is twice you express reasons for suspecting someone and vote elsewhere. I'm still good voting you.

My current pet theory on this game is that havingfitz was scum, my vote on him made Scumsibility worried and he wants to discredit me, and Sho is scum playing a different angle. These are very premature reads though.

i feel like

this

kinda stuff are very hard to fake as scum

What in

"this"

is hard for scum to fake?

[havingfitz]

Catching up from the weekend...up to post 108. Got to Shosin's post 58 and have to call BS. 18 isn't independently scummy...but 18 looks bad? Bad doesn't equal scummy to you? Garuga says the

only suspicious thing

he has seen up to this point is BBT's OMGUS vote and yet he votes me for an unexplained bad rvs post. Then you go on to say Garuga "had a reason for voting as he did." WTF was his reason again? Oh...the bad rvs post that wasn't even the only suspicious thing he had seen up to this point.

I don't know about most people but I tend to vote people I think are doing suspicious shit. Garuga and Shosin both scum reads for me.

@Shosin...WTF? How does the comment you quote from Garuga even come off as from town? smh....

Garuga's post 65 is terrible. iirc I touch on it in my last post.

@ BBT...who is your town read and why did you vote JJD?

@ Rampage...so you unvote Garuga because it was still there from a joking first vote....but what are your thoughts on Garuga currently? He has generated a good deal of suspicion/discussion.

@ Jodaxq...wtf?

@ bacy...but Garuga was under pressure for his post 18. He would stand to benefit as scum (or town) to explain himself. Why would he double down on me being scum...and also call out his defender (Shosin) as scum...but instead vote someone he has not given any reason for voting because their wagon looked more promising? How is any of that coming from town?

Piggybacking on this invisibility post because I missed the subject earlier...didn't Garuga go against his own advice he gives in post 34 when he votes me over BBT in #18?

Early reads:

Suspect - Garuga, Shosin

Lean town - JJD and BBT. And probably invisibility and Gustavo as well.

TBD - everyone else.

Rampage

...would you consider getting an avatar so your posts can be readily identified? While no avatar does set you apart...it just seems easier imo to quickly ID on any given page who is who from their avatars.

[havingfitz]

You're assuming that defending Garuga means I automatically agree with Garuga's perception (that his own post is bad).

You said his 18 was bad.

[havingfitz]

I don't like HF's use of "wtf" - his reaction seems a bit over-the-top.

I use it a lot. If you think it's scum alignment indicative of me vote me. Otherwise I could care less...especially given I'm sr'ing you.

[havingfitz]

he did give a reason for voting invisibility though.

I disagree that he would have no reason to elaborate on me like he did. As for invisibility...what was Garuga's case on him? Can you quote it?

[havingfitz]

@Rampage....

could you answer my questions to you in post 115?

[havingfitz]

RL busy yesterday. Will effort to catch up by this afternoon.

[havingfitz]

Post incoming.

Possibly a hammer.

Thoughts Rampage?

[havingfitz]

Catch up from page 6:

@Shoshin..."was bad" "looks bad"....ok. Whatever. I interpret them to be the same thing coming from you.

@Rampage...this feels like a unusually strong effort to defend someone while at the same time saying you are having a hard time pin pointing things from people's posts. You don't think Garuga expressing stronger suspicions towards people (BBT...myself) and then voting others (myself...invisibility) instead is not suspect?

@Garuga...
- You voted me because I didn't give any information in a joking RVS vote instead of someone you say had done the most suspect thing up to that point? Not good IMO.
- Why are you telling me why you thought Sho was scum? But on that note...I see no Sho vote by you either.
- WRT post 34... I stand corrected. Disregard.
- WRT your reason for voting invisibility....that's pretty weak reasoning compared to what you have said towards me. Point stands.

WRT Bacy's vote on invisibility...I don't like the way he backs into the vote ("might as well") as if he has no choice but to do it. Lessening his accountability. FOS Bacy.

And lol at Jodaxq liking Bacy just 2 posts later.

@Jodaxq...my use of "probably" in a read is just a weakening adjective. I'm less confident in the read (whether it's referring to scum or town). Less sure. Beyond votes I'm not tracking everyone's suspicions towards each other so no...my town reads/leans are not based on opinions towards Garuga.

@Jodaxq...I think Rampage's point wrt Shoshin's push on him vice JJD makes perfect sense.

WRT to Shoshin's post 191...I actually like the way she has this dialogue with invisibility laid out. It makes sense. And has me questioning my read on her and invisibility.

@ Shoshin wrt "HF doesn't know how to read"....read this: "kiss my ass." Do you know which one is an ad-hom?

A little passive ad-homing by Shoshin. lol... Garuga bit less passive with his in 253.

@Shoshin...what "error" do you need to understand? The "looks bad" "is bad" discussion?

OMG the f'ing Shoshin JJD back and forth on post 47 etc etc. What JJD said. ffs.

Gustavo upgraded to town read.

ignored...

WRT to Garuga's post 253...he and Rampage seem keen on defending the other if my catch up recollections are accurate. Perhaps they are the same alignment...

@Havo...I've stated she is a scumread of mine with Garuga. So no, not at the moment.

OK...I'm going to have to look invisibility over more closely......

@Shoshin wrt HF, despite playing poorly...WTF? OK...I still suspect Garuga but f' it. You'll do.

VOTE: Shoshin

OK...and Garuga claims. Stupid. L-4 is not the time to claim. Not a fan of Garuga's play but willing to give benefit of the doubt on the claim.

Reads as of probably 358:

BlueBloodedToffee - town.
Gustavo - town.
JarJarDrinks - Lean town.
Havo - Hasn't posted much but what they have posted hasn't set off any alarms. Town.
Garuga- not a fan but claim gets a bye for now. Lean town.
Jodaxq- Not as big a fan of her posts as some who are town reading her but it might be a playstyle thing. Lean town.
Mumble - null. Not too active and what little posting they have done I still need to digest.
texcat- null/suspect. Not too active and what little posting they have done I still need to digest.
Invisibility - liked earlier off the cuff...more they have posted the less I like. Null....could be scum.
bacy - not a fan...things they have said have struck me as odd or suspect. Lean scum.
TheRampage - The more I've read the less I like. Could be scum. Not opposed to their lynch.
Shoshin - scum

Feels good voting Shoshin atm. Will wait and see what posting happens for a while and consider a Rampage hammer later. No rush with 6 days till deadline.

[havingfitz]

Cool, hammer please Fitz

Will wait and see what posting happens for a while and consider a Rampage hammer later. No rush with 6 days till deadline.

[havingfitz]

Garuga should not have claimed. Even though I was pushing his wagon it wasn't getting a lot of support so I was leaving it as well. Don't get his early (L-4?) claim.

Still like my vote from eod yesterday.

VOTE: Shoshin

v/LA till Tuesday morning

for holiday weekend in US.

[havingfitz]

UNVOTE:

[havingfitz]

Garuga's death makes a lot of sense from a scum HF perspective (Garuga scumread him, after all).

Errrrr

I think havingfitz is scum in association with Invis, I think

Sho is scum

due to her attacking TheRampage earlier on and I don't like her exchange back in 251,

Just in case I get NKed: I'm particularly intrigued by the prospect of a

Shoshin

/JJD/Mumble scumteam.

Your crappy shade aside...Garuga made sense as the NK to anyone based on his claim. smh...

[havingfitz]

why do you feel the need to justify your vote/unvote on garuga?

Because despite being one of the players who suspected him and ergo contributed to his (uneccessary) claim...I still think his claim was a stupid move.

[havingfitz]

First, Mumble says he never implied that Invisibility is town, even though he's been defending Invisibility (and thus implying Invisibility is town) on both D1 and D2

If I see a crap case against someone I will point it out. That should not be construed as implying that person because I "know" he is town...it should be contrused as pointing out crap points against a player.

I know you are talking about Mumble...not me. But your point was crap so I felt the need to point out why.

See how it works?

[havingfitz]

First, Mumble says he never implied that Invisibility is town, even though he's been defending Invisibility (and thus implying Invisibility is town) on both D1 and D2

If I see a crap case against someone I will point it out. That should not be construed as implying that person because I "know" he is town...it should be contrused as pointing out crap points against a player.

I know you are talking about Mumble...not me. But your point was crap so I felt the need to point out why.

See how it works?

Actually...your post by post break down is well laid out and has some good points.

[havingfitz]

Weekend catch up from Shoshin's 455 which I addressed in my posts yesterday.

OK...I like Shoshin's post 311. I agree with most of it. The part not included in the "most of it" is whether I think Mumbles is scum. I need to ISO Shoshin and Mumble I think. And Invisibility.

wrt Mumbles' 457, one of the things I find suspect of Shoshin is what I see as an inconsistency on who they suspect vs who they are voting. Though iirc I might have thought the same thing wrt Garuga. I need to go back and check that.

@Jodaxq...wrt 489, how is my first post of today active lurkerish? I am v/LA every weekend so that can't be it. And why wait till I get back? I was voting Shoshin to end D1.

@Jodaxq...wrt 502, conspiracy theorists could posit that INvisibility asked BBT about Shoshin because BBT had just voted Mumbles (two who Shoshin seems to think have some connection).

wrt Shoshin's 511...I agree...Garuga's post 311 to Mumble does not seem like an attack (or shading).

wrt BBT's 521...those are some sh*t reasons to vote Rampage. All of them pretty bare other than JJD's vote.

wrt Havo's 525, V/LA for me means I have better things to do than mafia so probably not going to do much analyzing of game content. It doesn't mean I won't pop in a few times over the weekend (as I did in this game) and if necessary vote or unvote. I didn't want a speedy end to D1 and I'm don't D2. Doesn't mean I won't vote if I see fit to.

@JJD wrt 529, why do you suspect BBT (independent of his suspicions towards Inv and Mumbles if you could)? (This question is echoed a few posts later by Mumble).

Reads as of this point (copied and edited as necessary from previous reads):

Gustavo - town.
JarJarDrinks - Lean town.
Havo - Hasn't posted much but what they have posted hasn't set off any alarms. Town.
Jodaxq- Not as big a fan of her posts as some who are town reading her but it might be a playstyle thing. Lean town.
texcat- null/suspect. Not too active and what little posting they have done I still need to digest.
BlueBloodedToffee -

pending ISO 5

Shoshin -

pending ISO 1

Mumble -

pending ISO 2

Invisibility - liked earlier off the cuff...more they have posted the less I like. Null....could be scum. -

pending ISO 3

bacy - not a fan...things they have said have struck me as odd or suspect. Lean scum. -

pending ISO 4

TheRampage - The more I've read the less I like. Could be scum. Not opposed to their lynch.

Garuga - not a fan but claim gets a bye for now. Lean town.

Basically there is an evolving group that feels town to me and an evolving group that I'm not sure about. Consider the ones

pending ISO

the ones I think contain scum. 3 would be nice. 2 I could live with. 1 or less and f* me.

No vote until I get a few of the ISO's done.

[havingfitz]

Gustavo - town.

Explain this please. I’ve been really busy irl and haven’t posted as much as I could so I’m kind of skeptical why anyone would town read me. Don’t get me wrong, I definitely appreciate it just don’t understand it.

You haven't posted anything to make me think otherwise. And a congruence of thought for the most part.

[havingfitz]

Gustavo - town.

Explain this please. I’ve been really busy irl and haven’t posted as much as I could so I’m kind of skeptical why anyone would town read me. Don’t get me wrong, I definitely appreciate it just don’t understand it.

You haven't posted anything to make me think otherwise. And a congruence of thought for the most part.

[havingfitz]

Catch up from pg 23 to post 759.

Trying to digest the Shoshin push on Mumble for feeling defensive towards Garuga which was almost immediately resolved and therefore casts some shade on Shoshin for still pushing it.

NOTE to self...does Havo reply to Gus' 567? Answer...not that I recall seeing.

OK...so Shoshin is psycho-analyzing Mumble's very brief "misunderstanding".....seems like a lot to pin a lynch on.

@JJD wrt 570....I don't see how anything Garuga was saying to be construed as being ABOUT Mumble other than the fact the reply was TO Mumble.

wrt Shoshin's 580...all his descriptions of the lines from Garuga's 311 are reasonable. I agee. The cpognitive stuff...not so sure.

wrt Shoshin's 581...I see no shade on Mumble.

I'm starting to think Shoshin is over-analytical town whether he's going down the right or the wrong path.

@Shoshin

...are you like this in all your games? Do you have any completed scum games?

@ Shoshin...wrt 643, this seems a little hypocritcal considering the insults you have been dishing out towards me. A little "what goes around" bothering you?

Not sure I can survive a Shoshin ISO.

I did ISO invisibility though and did not care for it. Not lock solid tells/slips to hang my hat on but moreso just gutfeel as I read his body of posts.

Kind of hoping Shoshin and Mumble is TvT as neither of them is high on my list of people to lynch atm.

Who is high on my list you ask?

VOTE: invisibility

Looking forward to seeing more from Havo and texcat. (pot kettle)

I still think Gus is probably town though he's got pretty aggro recently. Not sure if that's AI for him or not.
Lean town on Jodaxq.
And JJD.
I'm leaning town on Shoshin atm per "over-analytical" comment above.

Still a bit TBD on the rest of you.

[havingfitz]

On board with a Shoshin lynch regardless of BBT flip. Will wait a day or two to see what is said.

[havingfitz]

I think town is screwed.
We're in MYLO btw.
I would suggest town not be hasty in their votes. One tvt vote could win it for scum.

texcat...you're the only player on all three mislynches. Thoughts?

[havingfitz]

part of the problem with this game is that 4 out of the 7 alive players have been largely inactive this game.

Agreed. Myself included.

[havingfitz]

interesting that you're using 'town is screwed' instead of 'we're screwed'

Brilliant. der hrrr

[havingfitz]

If it wasn't apparent I'm not engaged in mafia much over the weekends. I might try to do some reading today but probably won't post thoughts until tomorrow soonest. If I've missed anything directed at me I'll try to respond asap.

[havingfitz]

I lean towards believing Dredd's claim.
Consider my vote on texcat.

@Havo...why did Mumble go from a scum lean (1158) and a can't read (1161) to probably town (1184)?

@Mumble....why are you town reading Bacy?

[havingfitz]

VT

[havingfitz]

I lean towards believing Dredd's claim.
Consider my vote on texcat.

@Havo...why did Mumble go from a scum lean (1158) and a can't read (1161) to probably town (1184)?

@Mumble....why are you town reading Bacy?

what are your reads as of right now?

Suspect texcat which means I tr Dredd.
Suspect you.
Suspicions towards Havo.
That leaves Mumble and Gus as town per poe.

Assuming Dredd is telling the truth we live another day and can re-evaluate post scum flip tomorrow.

@Mumble....why are you town reading Bacy?

His receipt of fruit and lack of contradiction or counter.

That's easily manipulated by scum with a rb.

[havingfitz]

@fitz, pick somebody to claim next.

Who hasn't claimed?

[havingfitz]

Bacy claim.

[havingfitz]

Scum win?

Bleh.

[havingfitz]

Yes they are.

[havingfitz]

Now I'm thinking I messed up.

Yes you did. Quite a few times actually and for that I thank you. Couldn’t have asked for a better scum mate.

Yeah you could. texcat and havingfitz.

Thanks for "playing" you two.

This is poor sportsmanship Mumble. Poor form. I do think the criticisms towards you have merit. Knowing you were a pr as you did...you should have questioned Dredd's claim in relation to the flipped PRs before voting tex. At least let others chime in on your claim as tex tried to. And knowing what your night actions were should have gave you more pause on Shoshin.

RL was too much in the way for me this game but I doubt it would have mattered as I had the entire scum team as town. Good creative claim Dredd.

bleh