Mini Normal 2012: Tropical Mafia [Endgame]

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Havo

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Invisibility

[BlueBloodedToffee]

21 and 22 also seem very scummy
VOTE: Garuga

What's scummy about them?

Rampage's entrance has that trying-too-hard-scum-vibe.

In what way? I don't understand the try-hard part.

Garuga's town because he called his own posts bad, which demonstrates a lack of concern about appearances, and because the OMGUS point shows that he's looking for the underlying meaning to every post, including naked votes during RVS.

Why couldn't scum do this? If he makes a bad post as scum, instead of trying to defend it and dig himself into a hole (thus making himself the first real suspect of the game) why doesn't he just admit it was a bad post and try to move on from it?

VOTE: Invisibility

He didn't provide clear arguments for his reads on me.

Neither did Fitz - why did you choose Invisibility out of the two?

Jar, your "reasoning" is based on a misreading/misunderstanding of what I said.

The problem with Jar is that he's making his case on me before trying to understand my thinking. That's how scum play, not town.

These two posts appear to contradict each other - scum don't 'misread or misunderstand' a post, they misrep it. In 54, you seem to imply Jar is town and 'misreading' what you wrote and in the second post you're clearly calling him scum for it.

Which one is it?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

UNVOTE:

I don't have a single town read yet...if you're town can you start doing towny things please?

Thanks.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

they seem like an awkward attempt for scum to seem like town for agreeing with criticisms.

What about it comes across as

awkward

to you?

On another note, I have my first town read!

VOTE: JJD

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll get to this after work today, apologies for lack of engagement so far.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Scum "could" do anything... and especially in hindsight... this isn't a helpful way to sort alignments.

This is the best way to sort aligments - you weigh up the motivation/intent behind a post and decide whether it's more likely to come from town or scum. You just said yourself that scum could easily backtrack on a bad post, especially with hindsight, so I'm asking you why you're so sure it has come from town.

Two things. (1) Different audience: 54 addresses Jar, whereas 55 analyzes him. If I thought Jar had "misrepresented" me, I'd still give him the benefit of the doubt when addressing him directly.

(2) Scum "misread" all the time. The difference is this: When town misread, it's due to confirmation bias (and you can trace the trajectory of that bias based on how they developed the read throughout the game). But when scum misread, the bias comes from a malicious intent to paint a player in the worst light (unlike with confirmation bias, there's no trajectory or grounding for the misread).

Jar interpreted my meaning in the worst light without any grounding for doing so. Or as I put it in 55, he made no attempt to understand my thinking before deciding I was scum, which resulted in biased analysis (i.e. misreading/misunderstanding).

If you thought someone was misrepping you, why would you give them the benefit of the doubt. That doesn't make sense.

Your point relating to confirmation bias and a 'trajectory' is absolute nonsense. More often than not, it is scum who have a perfect 'trajectory' on a read because they are more aware that their read HAS to look good and believable to the rest of the town. Conversely, town are much more likely to be whimsical with their reads because they know they're town and don't have any other agenda other than to find scum.

who's the town read?

And what's the vote on me for?

Nosey neighbour.

Because I didn't like your push on Shoshin. Felt misreppy.

What happened in between these two votes to make you vote Jar?

I decided where I wanted to put my vote.

I also don't understand why this is question you're pressing. This kind of seems like fishing for a relevant question to ask now that you're coming in to make a vote

Given that the question has absolutely nothing to do with the person I am voting I fail to see the point you are trying to make with this post. I ask questions to get what I want.

good posts from Jodaxq. I townread her.

Which posts did you like?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

JJD vs Shoshin is not SvS

VOTE: Shoshin

That's an interesting phrase to use - not SvS. How did you rule out TvT?

And he STILL hasn't said anything of significance about why rampage is his top scumread.

I would actually like to see a response to this from Shoshin.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

feel kind of weird about him but that situation brings him to a townlean. it was either SvT or TvT but, given the people he spoke with, it was probably SvT

Why do you feel weird about him and how have you ruled out TvT?

I think it's natural to assume that JJD is a townread for invisibility if he says that invisibility/shosin is not SvS and immediately votes shosin. why is there a talk about a slip..?

This. The talk should be about the case that Shoshin put forward regarding Invisibility trying to backtrack on an implied town read and I'm surprised this hasn't really took off.

Maybe it will over the next page or two.

UNVOTE:

Need to catch up and then decide where my vote is going.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

all of her posts to that point were pretty good.

Which ones? And why?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VC 1.04

Shoshin

(3): Mumble, JarJarDrinks, Invisibility

This wagon though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

shoshin feeling better

This happens right after JJD jumps off the Shoshin wagon. JJD/Invisibility seem unlikely to be scum together and I'm much more confident in Invisibility being scum.

Interesting. Why Invisibility?

What's interesting is that you think this is the most important thing for you to take your first real stance on in this thread. Why do you feel so strongly about Garuga voting Invisibility?

Um...I'm not new? The re-vote is ridiculous and confusing (especially since I'm having a time differentiating you and Gustavo).

However, you didn't answer my question about clarification, and instead try to throw shade on me for a really weak reason.

VOTE: Garuga

This just gets worse. This is your strongest read at this point of the game? Having made next to no comments on anything else going on in the game.

I think my vote is better served here for the moment.

VOTE: TheRampage

Can we lynch Mumble after Rampage/Invisibility?

in fact VOTE: Garuga for 308 just being generally an awful post

What was awful about it? Was a fitting description of your play so far IMO.

Man I wanna lynch that claim. It's just about as scummy of a claim as I've seen.

Yeah, that's not happening.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, I'm caught up.

Will lynch any of Rampage, Invisibility, Mumble.

VOTE: Rampage

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Invisibility and Mumble abandoning the Shoshin wagon as soon as JJD did is suspect as fuck.

I have a lot of pre-flip associations going on right now that I'm trying not to do but I can't help it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Are you planning on answering my other questions?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, one of my strongest town reads.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Someone should state I2H on Rampage. Let's get this going.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You can leave the vote while we wait for the claim.

All you're doing now is stalling a wagon and relieving pressure. Why would you do that?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nah, he didn't.

Him asking Rampage for thoughts implies that I2H has been stated but he is willing to wait for Rampage thoughts.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Cool, hammer please Fitz.

All we do by waiting is give the wagon a chance to stall out.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I disagree.

Rampage is 100% being bussed.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, I can't disagree with that.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why are you suspicious of Mumble?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The most coherent and genuine post you have made all day.

I'd put the game on Mumble being scum if Rampage is.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Not much resistance to the wagon and based partly on my current reads.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Except there is a rush because as I just explained wagons tend to stall out and then disappear when conversation goes elsewhere.

Just because we have 6 days it doesn't mean we have to use them. We have 16 pages worth of information, which is plenty to work with.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I hate the site meta for dragging out days.

Absolutely despise it.

This is when I wish we had lolhammeres in games. You can rely on them to do what is needed.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Garuga, make us look like fools.

Hammer Rampage.

I dare you. Nay, I double dare.

Nay. I quadruple dare you to drop that hammer. Drop it like Thor.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

He isn't offering reads.

Are we reading the same game or have you taken crazy pills?

PEdit - Because I think Invisibility is scum and I don't think they can be scum together. I've also liked JJDs responses to my concerns and his later day posting got much better. I primarily scum read him for pushing you on what I felt was a misreppy case.

PPEdit - What Rampage said literally makes 0 sense. Like none. Nada. Zero.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Like, look how bad Rampage is scrambling for something.

For the love of all that is Holy and righteous, please end this scum's life in this game. Please. Have mercy.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Rampage hitting the AtE hard.

And the hammer falls in 3...2...1...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Shoshin, I would like to pear up with you today. Are you open to that?

I'm more than happy to lynch Mumble or Invisibility. I don't really have a preference either way.

VOTE: Mumble

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, no need to. Mumble looked bad regardless, I would say Invisibility looks even worse for trying to avoid the wagon without any sound reasoning as well.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Mod, I'm not voting Shoshin - I'm voting Mumble. That Shoshin wagon is disgusting as well.

Will get to this game a little later today.

fixed.
-nsg

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Shoshin, did you miss my first post this day phase?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What do you think about lynching Invisibility? I think I actually prefer that lynch today

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I really didn't like their end of Day play yesterday and their reads don't make sense to me.

The whole JJD vs Shoshin thing doesn't sit right either - it's like he has forgotten his previous reads/thoughts with the way he started this day phase.

I can give more detail when I'm on my laptop.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Spoiler: Votes on Rampage

VOTE: TheRampage

VOTE: TheRampage

I don't like how he's typed more words about Star Wars than the game, and I don't like how he's pushing for Shoshin

might aswell do this VOTE: Rampage

gonna UNVOTE: Shoshin for now

Latest bunch of posts seem decent and she does scumread the same people as me at least. Plus she's super active which I generally don't like to lynch in games with a bunch of lurkers.


lets VOTE: TheRampage
some reasoning here:

TheRampage

- scum. his seems to shade shoshin a bit but is very reluctant to vote there. Also he hasn't talk about another player in the game (aside from his most recent terribad vote for joda)

Plus 2 of my townreads are on the wagon which is a good sign.

I think my vote is better served here for the moment.

VOTE: TheRampage

VOTE: Rampage

Alright, so I have collected the votes that were placed on Rampage during D1. I will look into reasoning for each vote when I get the time but the first thing I notice already is that Tex and Jodax were sat on Rampage for a very long time - need to look into this further to see how much reasoning their was to back up these votes but that sets off a red flag for me straight away.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Invisibility

I'm not sure I'm 100% happy with Shoshin's response to my question, expected something somewhat different.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think I like a BBT/Invisibility scumteam right now.

Gonna reread everything tomorrow at work before deciding what lynch to push.

Looking forward to seeing your explanations for those random thoughts JJD.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Invisibility

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Invisibility

Double post for emphasis.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Gus, I made a post on the last page with a collection of the Rampage votes.

When I get on my laptop I'm to look a little deeper into the reasoning behind them.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Scum reads would be more interesting.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Invisibility seems like a fine lynch

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Reasons.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That Shoshin wagon is dusgusting.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Shoshin, I'd like to have the chance to talk to you in real time whenever you're around.

Got a couple of questions.

PEdit - Who you worrie about JJD?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm comfortable with bacy being town. Maybe Havo as well.

But yeah, nothing solid on Tex or Fitz

PEdit - I have no interest in explaining them to you Gus.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because you have shown an unwillingness to listen to other POVs. Once you have your mind set on something, it seems nigh impossible to change your mind.

So I'd rather not waste my time and the effort.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Should I try to convince you that you're scum?

Nah, I'm good.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's almost becoming a secret isn't it.

I think I like it.

Tbh, you're wagon is growing fairly well without me needing to state reasons. But, I'll offer you an olive branch, because I'm a nice guy like that.

Top 3 scum reads and why.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also, what do you think of the company you have on the Shoshin wagon?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, so first question.

Did anyone visit you last night?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Shoshin

Shoshin is scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If Shoshin is scum I need a serious reevaluation of this game.

I'm like 95% sure that Shoshin is flipping scum here though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I understand that.

You played well Shoshin, I had you as one of my strongest town reads.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nah, I think if you were town you would know who visited you.

If scum have somehow played the situation and got lucky, so be it. But your answers at start of day didn't give me a good feeling that you were town and I tried to ignore it.

But it won't go away.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Invisibilities posting around his lynch makes me think he is town. Could be snarky scum, but it doesn't feel like it and this thing with Shoshin has been itching away at me all Day.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I was fed information.

I thought you had it too. If you were town, I think you would have the same information as me. But you don't seem to.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You're getting ahead of yourself JJD - I didn't say I had anything to claim. I was given information.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's what I'm saying Shoshin.

Based on the information I have, if you were town you would KNOW what I know.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Lol.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

All in good time.

You're wasting your vote.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Shoshin is trying to explain that at start of Day I was pushing Mumbles with her. After asking her if she wanted to work with me.

Despite agreeing to do this, I then switched over to Invisibility on my own accord. Why does scum!BBT push town!Mumbles and then move onto scum!Invisibility for no reason? Hence Shoshin saying it only makes sense if Mumble is scum as well.

I find that I'm in a really strange position here - I'm hard town reading Shoshin but something isn't right. I want more people to weigh in with their opinions.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

People keep linking Invisibilty being L-1 to the timing of my switch in read on Shoshin.

Whilst they're very lightly connected - Invis posting around his L-1 made me doubt the read - if you read through my posts towards Shoshin today you can see that I was trying to work something out with her all Day long. This was just the end result.

It was niggling me all day and I didn't really want to force anyone to claim/claim myself if it wasn't needed. I'm still unsure with how to proceed.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I haven't even thought how this might effect other people and I may or may not have told a white lie or two. This could be seen as anti-town but, shrug, something is off.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Your answers to me throughout the day - but if you didn't know anyone visited you then it makes sense.

There are a couple of scenarios where you COULD be town but it's much more likely that you're just scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Fuck it.

I'm claiming Town Loyal Fruit Vendor and I visited Shoshin last night. She should have received fruit from me but she is saying she has no idea of anything. My action only fails if I target scum. Or if I was role-blocked which is highly unlikely.

PEdit - It wasn't the claim Tex - it was the posting in general.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Shoshin, I would like to pear up with you today. Are you open to that?

Note the 'pear'.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Despite numerous attempts to gain an answer from Shoshin today she has shown no knowledge of receiving anything.

I tried to ignore this as I was town reading her so strongly but I don't know, something is wrong.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I wasn't role-blocked. I don't think I would have been high on scum's priority list after my D1.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's a good point actually.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

JJD, go and have a lie down.

If someone puts Invisibility to L-1 I'll hammer him

Pedit - I find it highly unlikely I was roleblocked or jailkept tbh.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Invisibility

JJD, I was trying to form a town block - which IMO is a better way to use the role.

I would never target scum with this - I didn't even consider that option. I like working with people who I can trust and who make sense to me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm not relying on a night action to counter my in game reads when I don't know for certain what happened.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

And because Shoshin was my top town read in the game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I town read some of his posting at L-1 - that doesn't, and shouldn't, negate a games worth of posting before that.

Why would BBT fake claim at all at that point in the game?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

JJD is coming out with some of the craziest shit I have ever seen.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

JJD and Dread works for me.

Now Vote Invisibility. Thanks.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's so ridiculously hard to lynch lurkers on this site though.

Site meta has to change.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Town got super unlucky with how Night One panned out - that shit was unreal.

Mumble keeping the JK claim to himself was a bad move though. Could have avoided Shoshin being lynched