Mini Normal 2012: Tropical Mafia [Endgame]

[Jodaxq]

Hello everyone!

I'll get into this game tonight. Sorry weekends are generally bad for me.

[Jodaxq]

no wagons yet? smh

VOTE: Invisibility

I like this

[Jodaxq]

18 is bad

I agree.

VOTE: garuga

I don't like this vote. I disagree that 18 was bad and it seems strange to jump on it like this with what seems like a serious vote.

[Jodaxq]

Garuga's town.

I agree with this

[Jodaxq]

I think people took 18 a bit too seriously

[Jodaxq]

Cause you don’t rvs vote over something suspicious

I'm confused at where you're coming from. He didn't RVS vote for something suspicious. I thought that was the whole point?

[Jodaxq]

Shoshin why is Garuga town?

Probably because I voted for him.

I don't like that you answered this question, even in a joking way.

[Jodaxq]

Let's get this game started!

VOTE: JarJarDrinks

His name is... unpleasant.

Is it cuz u dont like Jar Jar. Or u dont like people making fun of Jar Jar's name?

Answer may affect where I vote.

Checking in

VOTE: Garuga for stealing my initial vote

Meaning u were planning to vote for me or ur mad that he made the games first vote?

These kind of questions seem scummy to me. The answers would clutter the thread with some useless information

[Jodaxq]

Checking in

VOTE: Garuga for stealing my initial vote

Meaning u were planning to vote for me or ur mad that he made the games first vote?

It was because I was gonna vote for you and make some off handed comment about how Jar Jar sucks and turned the Galactic Republic into and Empire by getting Chancellor Palpatine Emergency Powers.

Padme made him supreme chancellor in the first place. And anakin was as annoying of a character.

What do u think of Shoshins Garuga read (and her vote on you) ?

As I was saying

[Jodaxq]

what do u think of Shoshin hard defending u?

It could be buddying. I don't think TheRampage's opening post was scummy.

RIP my vanity wagon, at least it got some reactions.
VOTE: Invisibility

He didn't provide clear arguments for his reads on me.

Is a vanity wagon a thing on page 2? That seems like an odd term to throw out there right now

[Jodaxq]

If I didn't find Rampage scummy, I'd vote Jar for that shallow attempt to throw a vote my way.

I find this pretty strange. He asked a question on something that seemed out of place and voted. That's a pretty normal happening in a game of mafia. I don't see how it stands out this much to you other than that it's a vote for you.

[Jodaxq]

The problem with Jar is that he's making his case on me before trying to understand my thinking. That's how scum play, not town.

This comes across as defensive. No one else had even commented yet.

[Jodaxq]

UNVOTE:

I don't have a single town read yet...if you're town can you start doing towny things please?

Thanks.

they seem like an awkward attempt for scum to seem like town for agreeing with criticisms.

What about it comes across as

awkward

to you?

On another note, I have my first town read!

VOTE: JJD

What happened in between these two votes to make you vote Jar?

[Jodaxq]

they seem like an awkward attempt for scum to seem like town for agreeing with criticisms.

What about it comes across as

awkward

to you?

On another note, I have my first town read!

VOTE: JJD

I also don't understand why this is question you're pressing. This kind of seems like fishing for a relevant question to ask now that you're coming in to make a vote

[Jodaxq]

Padme made him supreme chancellor in the first place. And anakin was as annoying of a character.

What do u think of Shoshins Garuga read (and her vote on you) ?

While this is true, the whole reason for having Padme go on the run and not be in the Senate was so that Jar Jar could be manipulated into recommending emergency powers for Palpatine. Jar Jar was placed for that exact reason. But yeah, Jar Jar was annoying, but he played an important role in the saga.

Anyways, I think Shoshins is fishing with their reads. We have 3 pages right now and in my eyes, there really hasn't been any slips. I think Shoshin is trying to force a slip and is setting a trap. Still, I am not really thinking anything of Shoshin's read or vote on me. Their reasoning is very poor and based off of my first post, and apparently to them, everything I write is scummy. Possibly even this post.

I really don't like this post. One complete filler paragraph and one that feels very forced and defensive in a passive-aggressive way.

[Jodaxq]

I am gonna UNVOTE:

I feel like Shirt on is trying to trap and it is failing. Either that or hoping the newb is an easy target for lynching as scum. Tough call. Will wait as the day drags on.

It's a tough call between Shoshin being scum and setting a trap and Shoshin being scum and hoping for a mislynch?

[Jodaxq]

VOTE: TheRampage

I don't like how he's typed more words about Star Wars than the game, and I don't like how he's pushing for Shoshin

[Jodaxq]

I am gonna UNVOTE:

I feel like Shirt on is trying to trap and it is failing. Either that or hoping the newb is an easy target for lynching as scum. Tough call. Will wait as the day drags on.

If you suspect Shoshin, why aren't you voting her? After all, we just had a discussion about this topic.

Agree with this. Like why unvote in the same post?

I unvoted because I wished to remove my initial joke vote since the game has taken a turn for the serious. Now like I said, I did not vote Shoshin yet because I am not solid on believing he is scum.

but it's the best scumread you've got so far im guessing, right? i really don't see why you wouldn't wanna vote here unless there's some shady business going on

I haven't commented on many of her posts yet but I like what Bacy has been doing so far.

[Jodaxq]

If I didn't find Rampage scummy, I'd vote Jar for that shallow attempt to throw a vote my way.

I find this pretty strange. He asked a question on something that seemed out of place and voted. That's a pretty normal happening in a game of mafia. I don't see how it stands out this much to you other than that it's a vote for you.

Jar also interpreted my meaning in the worst possible light without any reason to do so, and that bias isn't "normal" at this point in the game.

The problem with Jar is that he's making his case on me before trying to understand my thinking. That's how scum play, not town.

This comes across as defensive. No one else had even commented yet.

I understand why you'd read this as defensive but that wasn't my intent - I was clarifying 51.

I don't see how that's really strange, though. I feel like framing people being scum and thinking their doing things for scum reasons is indicative of town and kind of the purpose of this game.

[Jodaxq]

Early reads:

Suspect - Garuga, Shosin

Lean town - JJD and BBT. And probably invisibility and Gustavo as well.

TBD - everyone else.

How are invisibility and Gustavo "probably" lean town? If you have to slap a "probably" on that then it looks like you're just throwing out names without a ton of reason and they should likely be in your TBD. I'm especially interested to hear why you town lean Gustavo since he's made only 5 posts and none since page 2. Are you just okay with those who scum read Garuga?

[Jodaxq]

I have to agree with Jar Jar right there. I mean, you have seriously pushed for me for the majority of the game; and while I would appreciate being one less vote, I think it is fishy that with very little proof or reason, you would go after Jar Jar before me.

This kind of post is why I scum read Rampage. This post is awkward, defensive, and out of tune with the game.

[Jodaxq]

How do you still have Rampage ahead of me?

You're voting him, so I don't see why that's a mystery.

Oh this one really stands out to me. Why avoid answering?

[Jodaxq]

VOTE: Shoshin

Were you caught up at the time of this vote?

[Jodaxq]

More like Shoshin questioned the town read on you instead of the scum read on him. So it seemed like he slipped and basically said we are right to question his alignment.

I have no idea what you were trying to say during this exchange

[Jodaxq]

I thought Shoshin was.questioning the consistency of Invisibility's reads. I don't like that Rampage immediately jumped on it as a slip.

I think it's natural to assume that JJD is a townread for invisibility if he says that invisibility/shosin is not SvS and immediately votes shosin. why is there a talk about a slip..?

I'm with these two.

[Jodaxq]

I'm sorry everyone but I've had a rough couple of days. I will be here in the afternoon

[Jodaxq]

I think the claim comes from town. It's a bad play from town, but it's worse from scum. A scum claiming an investigative would have to fake invest results while also explaining why he hadn't been killed.

[Jodaxq]

VOTE: Invisibility

I don't really know what I think about this vote. Not necessarily the person you voted for, but the fact that you naked voted to start day 2. You were pretty verbose on day one with no reservations about explaining your thought process. Why a naked vote? Why not give an explanation here?

[Jodaxq]

Garuga should not have claimed. Even though I was pushing his wagon it wasn't getting a lot of support so I was leaving it as well. Don't get his early (L-4?) claim.

Still like my vote from eod yesterday.

VOTE: Shoshin

v/LA till Tuesday morning

for holiday weekend in US.

I really don't like this. It's very active lurker-like.

Why vote now instead of waiting until you come back?

[Jodaxq]

Why?

Besides the points I raised on D1, his continued push on Garuga in the latter part of D1 felt very mechanical (as town, I think his read would have shifted more fluidly), and his refusal to hammer Rampage while doing nothing to prevent the mislynch suggests Invisibility knew Rampage would flip town but had no desire to save his life.

Isn't this what you were accusing JJD of on day 1? That he interpreted your actions in the worst light without understanding your thinking?

[Jodaxq]

Could you elaborate?

No, your posts peak for themselves. Why JJD?

I disagree that they speak for themselves in this regard and it really makes your previous explanation seem forced

[Jodaxq]

VOTE: Mumble

From the way he's playing, he's clearly implied that Invisibility is town in a way that suggests he's pre-inclined to do so (either because Invisibility is his partner, or because he knows Invisibility is town). He read Garuga as scum, he read me as scum, and he jumped on the Rampage lynch when it was popular to do so. In other words, he's voting townies. And he's obscured his alignment by keeping his thoughts to himself, and when pushed to offer some thoughts, he's refused. He'd rather vote me to answer his questions than actually say who he thinks is scum, or vote whoever he thinks is scum. Also, note how he's still voting with support in HF - never making decisions without someone else pursuing the same things. It's time for him to offer some thoughts on the game that don't consist of pointless questions or voting popular wagons or voting without any semblance of a scumhunting mindset. Also, consider how terrible his vote on me is - voting because he doesn't want to offer his own thoughts about the game before I answer more of his questions, as if somehow I'm scum because I want to know his thoughts on the game uninfluenced by my answers).

Invisibility, join me on Mumble!

This is what I mean. Your explanations are really inconsistent. You naked vote Invisibility, refuse an explanation, and then provide this explanation and vote all in the same page.
Then, you ask someone who you supposedly scum read to vote with you for who you believe to also be scum. I'm just confused at your progression at this point.

[Jodaxq]

i like this better
VOTE: Shoshin

How do you square this with your scumread on JJD?

You are calling him scum while voting another slot.

Do you think there's only one scum in the game?

These thoughts oppose each other. Invisibility's scum read is bad because he has a different scum read, but it's okay for you to have multiple scum reads?

[Jodaxq]

im kinda feeling shoshin as town tbh, will post more thoughts in the morning though

I would like to hear this.

[Jodaxq]

I'm voting Mumble for a few reasons. First, Mumble says he never implied that Invisibility is town, even though he's been defending Invisibility (and thus implying Invisibility is town) on both D1 and D2 - and that's scummy because he's acting in a way that shows he's pre-inclined to read Invisibility as town while refusing to actually commit to a position. Second, Mumble's done very little other than vote townies (me, Garuga, and Rampage) when it was popular (read: opportunistic) to do so. And third, Mumble's unnaturally defensive in a way that betrays a scum perspective.

For those of you who aren't seeing what I'm talking about, here's a post-by-post breakdown:

I haven't seen any questions aimed at me in the last few pages, so here's my prodge:

I getting a vibe from texcat that she'll be easier to sort as the game goes forward and more substantial info comes up. Nullreading her for now.
I think BBT should reveal his townread. Since the only posters between 64 and 71 are me, bacy and Invisibility, I'm guessing it's bacy, but it would be nice to get official confirmation.

Lynchplan:
VOTE: Invisibility
2. havingfitz
3. Shoshin
4. Gustavo

Interesting. Why Invisibility?

Mumble questions Garuga's read on Invisibility.

He's not providing clear arguments for his reads. His "what?" trilogy (151 153 155) is probably the best example, along with the (19 23 28) trio early on.

So why naked vote him (essentially doing what you are scum reading him for) instead of asking him to clarify?

Because I see an alternative reason for your vote...

The Invisibility questioning becomes a defense ("why vote him instead of asking for clarification?").

Um...I'm not new? The re-vote is ridiculous and confusing (especially since I'm having a time differentiating you and Gustavo).

However, you didn't answer my question about clarification, and instead try to throw shade on me for a really weak reason.

VOTE: Garuga

Mumble continues defending Invisibility by voting Invisibility's attacker.

Mumble also interprets Garuga's 311 as an attack when it's clearly not. Seriously, read 311. There's no hint of an attack on Mumble, yet Mumble feels attacked? Scum know townies are after them, so they tend to feel unnaturally defensive when engaging townies in a conversation.

So, assuming the entirety of that was directed at Invisibility (unclear, but I'll assume), I agree with the points he made on you at the time. You feel like you're scum reading him because he voted you.

Mumble continues defending Invisibility. And Mumble continues suggesting that 311 is an attack, even after Garuga clarified that Mumble misinterpreted him.

I think my vote is better served here for the moment.

VOTE: TheRampage

Mumble votes a townie, which has become the popular (and safe) wagon at this point. He offers no reasons for joining the wagon. He's the fifth vote of seven.

Summarize your D1 points. I don't see how his refusal to hammer Rampage while pushing another read is scum oriented. Looking at his ISO, I don't see anything to assume he knew Rampage would flip town and that seems presumptuous./quote]
Mumble continues defending Invisibility by attacking the reasoning for my push. Mumble's blindness is also unnatural - it's fairly obvious why refusing to hammer Rampage while allowing the Rampage lynch to happen is scum-oriented (scum love to let mislynches happen without having to actually vote town themselves), and Invisibility's ISO exhibits further evidence of an informed perspective when Invisibility read Rampage as VI (i.e. scummy but town) (evidence that Mumble has chosen to ignore so that he can attack my push as "presumptuous").

VOTE: Shosin

Now answer my fucking questions.

Mumble votes town, not because he reads me as scum, but because I want him to offer some thoughts on the game uninfluenced by my answers to his questions.

I've not implied that I think Invis is town...I asked why you think he was scum given your naked opening vote. I jumped on Rampage because we hadn't had a wagon at that point, and wagons are good (absent dumbasses who will end the day early with them).

Mumble says he never implied that Invisibility is town... so Mumble's ignoring the pattern of defending Invisibility throughout the game? He doesn't want to take a position on anything. He even disclaims any sort of conviction in the Rampage wagon ("I voted Rampage because wagons are good, not because he was scummy"). There's no hint of any attempt to actually scumhunt or identify scum in his posting, nor is there any attempt to make his alignment known to us - only defensive moves (for himself and Invisibility) and votes on townies without any meaningful conviction behind them.

Invisibility, explain how Mumble's a townread for you? and explain how anything about my push (or its reasoning) is scummy?

I think you're trying to put a lot more implication in some of these posts than there is. A lot of that looks like standard questioning from Mumble. Once again I feel like you're doing some the things that you yourself claimed were scummy on D1.

[Jodaxq]

I didn't push HF. I raised concerns about his play.

I agree that Shoshin wasn't really "pushing" Fitz, and I think Mumble tried to extract too much out of it.

[Jodaxq]

your reasoning on the scumbuddy/knowing im town thing is bad. especially when you're telling me to join the wagon. also you're being contradictory by calling me scum and then telling me to join the wagon

What's bad about my reasoning? If you're town, don't you find it odd that Mumble keeps defending you while refusing to townread you? The point is that his behavior betrays an informed perspective about your alignment, regardless of whether you're town or scum.

There's nothing contradictory about asking you to join a wagon on Mumble - it's in the town's interest for people to vote scum, regardless of whether the voters are scum/town, plus it's an opportunity for you to show me how you think about the game. It's a reaction test with a pro-town objective. So far, you haven't given me any reason to townread you but I'm constantly reevaluating and if you're town I'd very much appreciate you making that as clear as possible to me.

Okay this is a good post and I like this explanation.

[Jodaxq]

no? its more like Mumble doesn't get why Garuga thought that i should have been lynched. it was less of a defense and more of a callout of poor logic

That's what scum do when they see a townie voting another townie - they call out "poor logic" while refusing to take a position about the player they're implicitly defending. And I've seen that pattern repeat itself in almost every game of mafia I've ever played. Townies behave differently: they usually take a position about both players, as it's only natural for townies to start sorting the relevant players when analyzing the "poor logic" - otherwise how are they even supposed to evaluate the logic?

I like this post too.

I'm unsure of what I think about Shoshin at this moment. I'll have to reread her day 1 as well.

[Jodaxq]

No, no need to. Mumble looked bad regardless, I would say Invisibility looks even worse for trying to avoid the wagon without any sound reasoning as well.

This doesn't seem genuine. If Mumble looked bad regardless, then there wouldn't be a "if Rampage is". Why not say anything about Mumble's day 2 play?

[Jodaxq]

I don't like HF's use of "wtf" - his reaction seems a bit over-the-top.

bad

JJD vs Shoshin is not SvS

VOTE: Shoshin

VOTE: JJD
scummiest person right now for me

Invisibility, join me on Mumble!

you were literally voting me a few posts ago what

So what? I'm voting Mumble now and you should join.

i like this better
VOTE: Shoshin

So do you now think that it was SvS?

probs not

probably so*

Idk but this seems like a strange typo.

[Jodaxq]

@BBT how do you feel about Shoshin trying to get me on the wagon?

This post rubs me the wrong way. It comes right after your supposed typo and this looks like you casually answered Texcat's question without thinking, realized you answered inconsistently and threw out your "correction," and then threw out a question to try and move the conversation past it. Why ask BBT in specific? Why did it have to be a question about something that happened to you? Why not ask about his general thoughts on his Shoshin town read?

[Jodaxq]

I'll be able to catch up tomorrow.

[Jodaxq]

@NSG - please replace me

I'm sorry, everyone. I've recently received a promotion and my hours and workload have been substantially increased. I'm already falling behind and I don't think I can keep up with this game going forward.

[Jodaxq]

Great job scum! I'm sorry I felt the need to replace out. I definitely would not have helped with activity.