Mini Normal 2012: Tropical Mafia [Endgame]

[Gustavo]

VOTE: invisibility

Mafia ninja found

[Gustavo]

18 is bad

I agree.

VOTE: garuga

[Gustavo]

My issue with 18 is he said he found the omgus suspicious but didn’t vote it.

[Gustavo]

Cause you don’t rvs vote over something suspicious

[Gustavo]

Cause you don’t rvs vote over something suspicious

Why would scum do this?

Idk. But more importantly I don’t know why town would which is why it’s suspicious

[Gustavo]

Got prodded. I will attempt a catch up today

[Gustavo]

you know I really hate when people do stuff like that. sometimes people are busy irl, telling people to "do stuff" isn't really being helpful and it kind of pisses me off.

[Gustavo]

Garuga's town because he called his own posts bad, which demonstrates a lack of concern about appearances, and because the OMGUS point shows that he's looking for the underlying meaning to every post, including naked votes during RVS.

meh, I disagree with this post. this implies scum will never call their posts bad which clearly isn't true and if he was really looking at reasons, he would have pressured the omgus thing to try and get something more substantial from it.

[Gustavo]

The problem with Jar is that he's making his case on me before trying to understand my thinking. That's how scum play, not town.

maybe you should be more transparent with your thinking? i find myself agreeing with jar so he clearly is hitting a nerve with you. You not wanting to vote him seems you are afraid of how people perceive you. Like you don't want to vote him for fear of somebody calling it OMGUS, but you clearly are omgusing him.

[Gustavo]

UNVOTE:

I don't have a single town read yet...if you're town can you start doing towny things please?

Thanks.

same to you

[Gustavo]

i feel like this kinda stuff are very hard to fake as scum

stupidity isn't hard to fake as scum.

[Gustavo]

I don't see anything try hard in Rampage's first post. Did you find his explanation suspect?

His explanation confirms the amount of thought he put into the post.

I still don't understand what is suspicious about it? trying hard isn't alignment indicative.

[Gustavo]

18 is bad

I agree.

VOTE: garuga

I don't like this vote. I disagree that 18 was bad and it seems strange to jump on it like this with what seems like a serious vote.

you don't see anything wrong with finding something suspicious and ignoring it?

for early on, pressuring that is a good vote. if you disagree and are town, do better please. if scum, carry on.

[Gustavo]

I think people took 18 a bit too seriously

have to start somewhere. that was a great place to start and look at all the discussion it generated.

[Gustavo]

Cause you don’t rvs vote over something suspicious

I'm confused at where you're coming from. He didn't RVS vote for something suspicious. I thought that was the whole point?

he ignored something he found suspicious and voted for something stupid. That was my issue.

[Gustavo]

I disagree with your "no attempt to find scum" quip on TheRampage: 80 132 198 look like scumhunting to me (regardless of the actual quality of the posts). He also attacked Jodaxq by voting her, which invalidates your claim.

As for the meta: I seem to be doing okay with less frequent, shorter posts. Maybe that's just because people aren't asking me many questions since they're too busy bickering about if a post I made in page 1 is bad or not.

Just checked those posts. I definitely wouldn’t classify those as scum hunting.

As for people bickering about a post you made on page 1, all posts matter. You don’t get a free pass just cause it was said on page 1.

[Gustavo]

Garuga, I still want to know how 80, 132, or 198 evidence scumhunting.

Does it really matter?

[Gustavo]

Oh man.

Why have we got 3 splintered wagons?

I’m sad the garuga wagon fell apart. I don’t think I like any of his posts which only strengthens my scum read on him.

[Gustavo]

that was a weird question by bacy.

[Gustavo]

it isn't the same type of question though.

[Gustavo]

it isn't the same type of question though.

Why is your question "okay" but Bacy's "weird"? What's the intent behind your question? What were you hoping to learn?

my question is ok because I asked it.

but seriously. what is the point of asking him to explain how it is scum hunting especially when he sort of does already iirc. If he explains it, are you going to change your opinion? I don't think so.

bacy is questioning havo's attempt to try and get somebody to provide reads. Getting reads from people is much more beneficial than asking them to define their idea of scum hunting.

[Gustavo]

I didn't ask Garuga to define his idea of scumhunting, I asked him to identify where in three specific posts he saw evidence of scumhunting.

That’s not how I interpreted it. That could very well have been your intention but the way you asked it to me looked like asking him to explain it. You should have probably been more specific in your question. My bad.

[Gustavo]

Bacy's question attempts to understand the underlying purpose of Havo's question - and to be clear, Havo's question wasn't simply asking my reads, as those had already been provided - it was asking me to identify my strongest townread among three players I'd already called town. Bacy's question directly gets at Havo's alignment because there's both pro-scum and pro-town reasons for asking Havo's question.

I should probably get back to reading cause I didn’t realize you had already given reads on those players. I assume you explained the reasons for those?

Anyways. Today is busy at work so I’ll try and read more tonight. I’ll be at a conference all day tomorrow

[Gustavo]

I don't really get the issue here. Forcing people to take a stance and put their opinions out there is kinda what you do in mafia.

agreed. It does strike me weird he is questioning somebody he town reads but it's not anything I haven't seen before.

[Gustavo]

Everyone has different ways to play.

[Gustavo]

I think Gustavo ignored 22 in 237.

I didn’t ignore it. Your explanation doesn’t make any sense. The point of the game is to find and lynch scum. If you see something suspicious you pressure it. You didn’t do that which means you aren’t trying to find scum.

[Gustavo]

v/la until Tuesday

[Gustavo]

No, no need to.

Bullshit. You always reevaluate without a flip. I fos anyone who doesn’t.

[Gustavo]

After a flip*

[Gustavo]

I would like to see more from Texcat and Gustavo.

What specifically do you need from me?

[Gustavo]

I would like to see more from Texcat and Gustavo.

What specifically do you need from me?

How do you see the game at this point?

Any strong reads?

Thoughts on Invisibility.

Let me catch up tomorrow or Wednesday and I’ll have some thoughts

[Gustavo]

Gustavo - town.

Explain this please. I’ve been really busy irl and haven’t posted as much as I could so I’m kind of skeptical why anyone would town read me. Don’t get me wrong, I definitely appreciate it just don’t understand it.

[Gustavo]

this could be a good start to get back into the game. where is this post about mumble?

[Gustavo]

man I really wish there was a way to click the person's name on the VC and it takes you to the post of the vote. That would make looking at the reasons for rampage easier. brb

p.edit - k thanks

[Gustavo]

I keep coming back to this:

He's not providing clear arguments for his reads. His "what?" trilogy (151 153 155) is probably the best example, along with the (19 23 28) trio early on.

So why naked vote him (essentially doing what you are scum reading him for) instead of asking him to clarify?

Because I see an alternative reason for your vote...

I was already voting him since 48. I don't think this sort of posting comes from town trying to solve the game. I think it's newbscum trying to discredit me since I voted havingfitz, and Invis's reaction is actually one of the main reasons I scumread HF.

The re-vote confirms my read on him and makes my post a bit more flavorful.

Garuga doesn't cast any suspicion towards Mumble.

Um...I'm not new? The re-vote is ridiculous and confusing (especially since I'm having a time differentiating you and Gustavo).

However, you didn't answer my question about clarification, and instead try to throw shade on me for a really weak reason.

VOTE: Garuga

But Mumble feels attacked? And then votes Garuga? I'm having trouble picturing a townie interpret 311 as an attack.

ok I read this. I also read mumble's response to you about this. I also clicked the link mumble provided that showed there was a misunderstanding that garuga clarified and mumble promptly changed his vote.

so now that was previously determined, why are you still using this as a reason to vote mumble?

[Gustavo]

^Oh i'll check that out thanks.

One thing I noticed looking at the VCs. How does the invisibility wagon hold steady with just 3 votes and never gains any traction? I'll have to look into that later.

[Gustavo]

When I get on my laptop I'm to look a little deeper into the reasoning behind them.

I find it interesting you are doing this considering you gave no reason for your vote on rampage and your iso is lacking explanation for it.

care to share with the class what about rampage you found scummy? The post you made you claim you caught up and then naked voted. That isn't very helpful especially given rampage was town.

[Gustavo]

looking at bbt's post, there was almost no reasoning given in the votes itself which means I have to iso each person. The only one who kind of explains a reason (jarjar) the were just kind of meh.

[Gustavo]

after we had a quick hammer Day 1?

1. that certainly wasn't a quick hammer so I am curious why you thought there was one? Shoshin said he would hammer, others were calling for hammers and one player asked for a self hammer.

2. aren't you the same person who made this post?

Doesn't havo do day one quickhammer thing

What happened to that

Are you an Alt?

Yes I will quick hammer Day 1 if I feel like it.

This makes me think you are ok with quick hammers...

[Gustavo]

The misunderstanding is the point... it's an unnatural reading of Garuga's language and reveals a scum perspective. Scum tend to think townies are after them even when they're not, and that's precisely the mindset that Mumble's misunderstanding exhibits. So it doesn't matter if Garuga clarified and Mumble changed his vote. The misunderstanding is the point.

That’s the dumbest thing I’ve read in a while. Mistakes happen. People misreading things happen. I almost always end up scum reading the people who scum read me and I do it as town. Your original point has been disproven and now spinning it to something else isn’t going to fly.

VOTE: shoshin

[Gustavo]

I think it's completely reasonable to think that Garuga is referring to Mumbles here.

I agree. I feel after that explanation, shoshin should have just admitted his mistake and moved on.

[Gustavo]

Why are you assuming that mistakes aren't indicative of alignment? Haven't you ever heard of something called a "scum slip"?

granted it's been a couple of years on this site, in general scum slips rarely happen.

I am actually not making the assumption that mistakes are alignment indicative. You are the one doing that.

The mistake is not alignment indicative, you want everyone to believe it is.

[Gustavo]

I guess I worded my post wrong.

I am not making the assumption that mistakes aren't indicative of alignment, why are you making the assumption that they are?

looks and sounds better.

[Gustavo]

Did anyone else read 311 as casting shade on Mumble? Or was Mumble the only one to make that error?

I didn’t because I wasn’t here to see it progress naturally but I could see it happening

[Gustavo]

I probably could when I get to a computer but does it really matter? It’s not alignment indicative

[Gustavo]

I can’t believe we are even discussing this at this point.

P.edit - it doesn’t matter though because it isn’t alignment indicative

[Gustavo]

Jar jar basically does it for me. I agree with that post. Now can we lynch shoshin?

[Gustavo]

Nobody is explaining why this isn't alignment indicative... saying it's not doesn't help me...

I’d suggest playing some newbie games to learn the ins and outs of mafia.

To quote a fairly famous quote.

“To err is human”

[Gustavo]

If that doesn’t answer it nobody can.

[Gustavo]

What is your definition of alignment indicative and go from there.

[Gustavo]

You have to look at the intent behind it. What’s scummy about misreading something, realizing it, then moving on?

I do that every time I make a mistake. I do it irl. I do it when I’m town and I do it as scum.

When I’m scum I dig deep and keep pushing the mistake even when everyone is telling me I’m wrong. I play stupid and keep pushing it.

[Gustavo]

What is your definition of alignment indicative and go from there.

[Gustavo]

yeah you are either delusional or scum

[Gustavo]

I'd also compromise on Gustavo at this point. There's at least one scum in this group ganging up on me.

Anytime you want to put your money where your mouth is, I’ll be here.

[Gustavo]

Yes I do

[Gustavo]

If shoshin was town he would compromise on his stance that misreading is AI

[Gustavo]

exactly how am I irritating you?

[Gustavo]

ok sorry I didn't realize you were so sensitive. I am used to playing with people who call each other way worse. I am sorry if I hurt your feelings.

You do realize you are pretty much all alone with your viewpoint right?

I don't see anybody taking your side or agreeing with you that mumble "scum slipped" because he misread something.

What

does

should that tell you?

This should tell you that you are wrong and should move on.

Your refusal to do that implies that if you are either stubborn town (hopefully you aren't offended by stubborn or else I am all out of words to describe how you are acting if you are town) or you are scum trying to pretend you are stubborn town.

[Gustavo]

I just apologized for my “insults” and explained that where I came how we deal with people.

What exactly was the point to go and quote it all again?

[Gustavo]

I'm not "all alone" - a number of players haven't even weighed in on this yet, and others have expressed some form of agreement/understanding about what I'm saying (e.g. HF, Tex, BBT, etc.).

And? The people who ARE active though have chimed in. If you are holding on hope the others will agree with you that means TO ME that you are desperately grasping at straws.

[Gustavo]

I'm stubborn because in the past I've been right when pushing a lynch that everyone else disagrees about.

Being stubborn in this game doesn’t work. If you are town you have to get other people to work with you. Stubbornness is the best way to push people away and not want to play with you anymore. Sometimes you have to scrap your original idea and go back to the drawing board.

[Gustavo]

maybe we should move on because conversation is going nowhere

Agreed

[Gustavo]

To get others' perspective...

I admitted I insulted you. Why do you need other people to agree I insulted you?

[Gustavo]

Gustavo, why are you voting me?

I think you are scum. You fit the definition I gave earlier about what scum does. I don’t think this “stubbornness” is genuine, it looks desperate to me.

[Gustavo]

Shoshen might just be ridiculously stubborn town.

Possible. But he could be scum faking it. It’s very easy to do

[Gustavo]

shoshin already said he thinks we are all ganging up on him and he thinks scum is in that pool.

[Gustavo]

So Gustavo/JJD/Invisibility disagree with my analysis... I'll wait for others to weigh in.

I'd also compromise on Gustavo at this point. There's at least one scum in this group ganging up on me.

There's clearly scum in this group of Mumble/Invisibility/JJD/Gustav

[Gustavo]

VOTE: Invisibility
I didn't like his quick vote on JJD toDay, followed by a vote for Shoshin, the 2 people he said were not SvS.

can you chime in on shoshin's idea that mumbles making a reading mistake is AI which makes mumbles scum.

[Gustavo]

Using that as a reason to reinforce your beliefs is beyond dumb

careful. he thinks calling his ideas dumb as a personal insult.

[Gustavo]

In a different group of players, Mumble would already be hanging.

not on this site in a game outside of the newbie que. Experienced players know the difference between mistakes and scummy behaviour.

[Gustavo]

I have played mafia at least 6 or 7 years on various sites. I have played on this site off and on for 3 or 4 years. Took a year or 2 off from playing but still stalked games.

[Gustavo]

so everyone who disagrees with you are town with no semblance of skill, yet I get criticized for calling you dumb and delusional? get the fuck out of here. I take back my apology.

btw, if I had no semblance of skill, i'd say 682 was a scum slip, but I will just assume you made a mistake when you basically called everyone voting you town.

[Gustavo]

oh, you done fucked up now. I haven't waffled on anything. don't toss false accusations at me cause i'll own you.

[Gustavo]

sure, but first you have to show where you think i waffled. You can't toss out a false accusation without backing it up.

[Gustavo]

If scum slips happen, then mistakes can be alignment indicative, right?

I mean if you want to argue semantics. Sure some mistakes can be AI but since true scum slips happen so rare in my experience, I stand by my argument that mistakes aren’t AI.

I’m not playing the semantic game and I certainly am not going to start changing the way I post to appease assholes who like to deal in absolutes.

[Gustavo]

Wait, nevermind. Mistakes can be alignment indicative ("have to look at the intent behind it").

This is just twisting what I’m saying in that post. If somebody makes a mistake, realizes it, admits it and moves on. That’s not AI. If they deny they made one and keeps pushing their agenda, then it’s AI.

This isn’t a game of absolutes.

[Gustavo]

Oh, that didn't last long - we're back to saying mistakes can't be alignment indicative.

I’ve never waiverd from that idea. You tried your best but just like I expected you failed. You are very obviously scum at this point.

[Gustavo]

Gustavo, what's your read on Invisibility?

Town

[Gustavo]

Gustavo, you said earlier that "you have to look at the intent behind it." What did you mean by that if no that mistakes can be alignment indicative depending on the underlying intent?

Meaning if somebody makes a mistake and gets called on it, it they don’t admit their mistake and back off, their intent is scummy. It actually means it wasn’t a mistake after all.

Sort of like your “mistake”

[Gustavo]

I'm waiting to be "owned." Guess that's not going to happen? All bark, no bite, lol...

You’ll be owned when you are lynched and flip scum which I’ll make sure happens.

[Gustavo]

This isn’t a game of absolutes.

That's my point... You seem to be saying mistakes can't be alignment indicative (i.e. an absolute) and I'm saying that in some circumstances they can be (i.e. looking at specific circumstances on their own terms). So I want a straight answer:

can

they be alignment indicative or not? The non-absolute answer is yes, the absolute answer is no.

Ever heard of Occam’s razor? You are going against the most likely scenario.

[Gustavo]

Gustavo, if I'm town, who would you say is scum?

I don’t think I can answer that rn.

[Gustavo]

Gustavo, you said earlier that "you have to look at the intent behind it." What did you mean by that if no that mistakes can be alignment indicative depending on the underlying intent?

Meaning if somebody makes a mistake and gets called on it, it they don’t admit their mistake and back off, their intent is scummy. It actually means it wasn’t a mistake after all.

Sort of like your “mistake”

Then why isn't the ultimate scum strategy to just always admit a mistake? "Oh, you suspect me? It's because I made a mistake, I'm sorry about that, I retract what I said earlier as that was just based on a mistake." Flawless defense every time, huh?

Who says that isn’t the ultimate scum strategy? Smart scum do this.

[Gustavo]

I'm inclined to vote Gustavo at this point but I can't tell if he's having a bad game or if he's scum, so I'll let others weigh in on that.

Where is option c? I’m not having a bad game and I’m not scum.

If you are town you are having a TERRIBLE game.

[Gustavo]

This isn’t a game of absolutes.

That's my point... You seem to be saying mistakes can't be alignment indicative (i.e. an absolute) and I'm saying that in some circumstances they can be (i.e. looking at specific circumstances on their own terms). So I want a straight answer:

can

they be alignment indicative or not? The non-absolute answer is yes, the absolute answer is no.

Ever heard of Occam’s razor? You are going against the most likely scenario.

You didn't answer my question...

Which one?

[Gustavo]

I don’t really think mistakes are AI. There are obviously exceptions to everything but for the most part no they aren’t. I definitely don’t feel mumbles mistake was AI.

[Gustavo]

There was a game where a player wrote a post with links to the scum topic and not the game topic. That was clearly AI. I’ve seen scum post in the game thread thinking he was talking in the scum thread. That was AI (also a good argument to bring back QTs)

Mistakes like what mumble did aren’t really AI. Now if you compiled a body of work in addition to that mistake, I’d be inclined to listen but I haven’t really seen much else. You say you have but I don’t remember seeing it nor is it what you are pushing. So your push looks like scum looking for an easy target and digging in when people aren’t listening.

[Gustavo]

Gustavo, what's your read on Invisibility?

Town

Why?

Cause my top scum read scum reads him.

[Gustavo]

VC 2.03

votes

Shosin

(3): Mumble, Invisibility, Gustavo

Mumble

(1): Shoshin

Invisibility

(1): BlueBloodedToffee

Not Voting

(6): Havo, Jodaxq, texcat, JarJarDrinks, bacy, havingfitz

With 11 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

The day 2 deadline is in

: (expired on 2018-06-09 19:20:59)

Mod Notes

:
If I have your vote in the wrong place, please let me know.

mod. Is it still 7 to lynch with 11 people?

[Gustavo]

Gustavo, what's your read on Invisibility?

Town

Why?

Cause my top scum read scum reads him.

VOTE: Gustavo

There's no way a townie is so confident I'll flip scum that Gustavo bases an entire read on a major wagon (Invisibility) on a surface-level observation that I've scumread the guy, while ignoring Invisibility's actual behaviors. I'd lynch Gustavo on this basis alone.

I think we're looking at a Gustavo/Invisibility/Mumble team, with Gustavo most likely to flip scum.

Jesus dude lighten up. It was a joke.

I don’t scum read him cause I haven’t seen anything scummy he’s posted. I haven’t seen a case that sells me on him being scum. But yes, I’m able to piece together enough to know if somebody I’m scum reading is pushing somebody, odds are that person is probably town. That’s how you poe the scum team. That’s basic mafia. If you don’t know that you are definitely in over your head.

[Gustavo]

Invisibility seems like a fine lynch

Why?

[Gustavo]

Reasons.

Yes. What are they.

[Gustavo]

Why?

[Gustavo]

Because you have shown an unwillingness to listen to other POVs. Once you have your mind set on something, it seems nigh impossible to change your mind.

So I'd rather not waste my time and the effort.

that isn't true at all.

[Gustavo]

Should have listened to me yesterday.

VOTE: shoshin

[Gustavo]

Hope everything is ok. My AC broke on me and it’s hot as balls so I’m dealing with that rn.

[Gustavo]

Jjd 2.0 is looking really bad when shoshin flips scum, and he will flip scum. I believe bacy and I’m still waiting on havo to answer my question. Havo could very easily be scum. Fitz worries me also.

Shaoshin is lock scum.

[Gustavo]

after we had a quick hammer Day 1?

1. that certainly wasn't a quick hammer so I am curious why you thought there was one? Shoshin said he would hammer, others were calling for hammers and one player asked for a self hammer.

2. aren't you the same person who made this post?

Doesn't havo do day one quickhammer thing

What happened to that

Are you an Alt?

Yes I will quick hammer Day 1 if I feel like it.

This makes me think you are ok with quick hammers...

[Gustavo]

It's clear at this point that scum blocked BBT on N1, so that's something to think about.

Or the more realistic explanation is that you are actually scum and that’s why you didn’t get the fruit.

[Gustavo]

Like even if you were actually town. It wouldn’t be clear to anyone but you that is what happened. Nobody else would know that 100%

[Gustavo]

Trying to trick people into thinking you are cleared isn’t analyzing the game.

[Gustavo]

Wtf? I'm providing you with the best analysis I can, based on the information available to me.

Alternative facts is what you are coming up with. The truth is you are scum trying to stall your lynch.

[Gustavo]

You can ignore my posts, then. But I'm gonna keep trying to figure this out.

Fine but you can at least cut out the omgus nonsense.

[Gustavo]

Yeah your stance seems off to me and it wasn’t even a quick lynch. When people are calling for the day to end, that’s not q quick lynch. And using the timing of somebody’s v/la is just low. People can’t control when they are busy.

I don’t remember you asking me this before but yes I am an alt, I quit a few years ago for “reasons”. I came back to give it another go but not having positive experiences this far.

[Gustavo]

V/la doesn’t always mean not active at all. There isn’t anything bad about that imo.

[Gustavo]

We have a good mod. Refreshing actually

[Gustavo]

What was your other user names?

Irrelevant. Have anything game related to ask?

[Gustavo]

I have one completed game on this account. Enjoy.

Games played 3 or 4 years ago aren’t going to be relevant to this one. If me not wanting my old account known somehow makes the playing field Unlevel. I’m sorry.

[Gustavo]

So Judge is the only player considering the possibility that I'm town?

I mean in the back of my mind I think there is a chance you could be town, but that is a very small chance. The odds that bbt has a role that if he targets scum he is RBd kind of makes scum having a RB or JK illogical. Think about it. If he targets scum he is blocked, so why would scum need a RB on top of that?

but let's say scum does have a RB and just so happened to block bbt. What are the odds?

We can safely say that town doesn't have a RB or a JK either, because if we did they would have claimed yesterday or at the very least today. Nobody is claiming Rb or JK.

we know redirectors aren't allowed so there isn't really anything else I can think of that would prevent BBT's actions.


I kind of wonder if JJD 2.0 is just pretending to take your side in an attempt to earn some town cred.

[Gustavo]

I am starting to think jjd 2.0 and sho are scum together, since basically everyone is willing to lynch sho, being the voice of reason after the scum flip will earn jjd 2.0 some town cred. People will think that no scum would be dumb enough to defend their buddy.

[Gustavo]

I also think Mumble/Gustavo had way too much certainty that I'd flip scum - could just be the way they speak but it really doesn't make sense - like, they didn't even want me posting anything because my posts were made from the only perspective I know, a town one. It's like every time I posted, it was so obvious to them that I was town that they needed to shut me up, lest I didn't get mislynched...

That’s a misrep. I wasn’t trying to shut you up. You said it was clear what had happened but it wasn’t. Nobody stopped you from analyzing the game. There is the ability to ignore people.

[Gustavo]

Tomorrow I plan on looking at the VCs to see if I can spot any patterns. I used to be pretty good at lylo.

[Gustavo]

got prodded, sorry about my inactivity I had family issues. i will try and catch up soon

[Gustavo]

I think it's a good idea. I would argue that Bacy, as our closest to confirmed town, should decide on the order.

how is he confirmed town?

[Gustavo]

Bacy got BBT's fruit, or claimed to, and has not been counterclaimed. I realize that she's not confirmed; that's why I said closest to.

but I remember a point being brought up, why would mafia let BBt give fruit and confirm a townie? Mafia clearly has a RBer so why would they not block him?

I don't feel comfortable putting him as lock town just cause he claimed to receive fruit, that is a very dangerous assumption.

we are basically an uphill climb at this point, I will do my best to catch up but it is going to basically take a hail mary without any sort of solid evidence

[Gustavo]

Not sure what I feel about the claim. I was sure dredd was scum with sho but sho flipped town. Have to look at that more also.

[Gustavo]

Yes that’s definitely a possibility. Where is the claim? What page? Or can somebody link it? I’m about to go into a meeting

[Gustavo]

1212

Thanks

[Gustavo]

I’m here now. I’m Vt.

Havo can go next.

[Gustavo]

Ok fitz

[Gustavo]

looking over that Dredd claim and the response from text, I am inclined to believe the claim. Plus I don't really see anyone CC'ing him and also his reluctance for a mass claim to me points to him being legit.

you can consider my vote on text.

@fitz, pick somebody to claim next.

[Gustavo]

I think bacy and mumble.

[Gustavo]

I think mumble is the last one to claim

[Gustavo]

VOTE: text

[Gustavo]

Who’s your buddies tex?

[Gustavo]

Now I'm thinking I messed up.

Yes you did. Quite a few times actually and for that I thank you. Couldn’t have asked for a better scum mate.

[Gustavo]

In retrospect I think this setup was probably scumsided - that being said, it did end up happening that town ran into the worst possible scenario, so there's also just an element of getting unlucky.

I also don't think that JJD's claim as a role would be possible under the new normal guidelines (which this game was passed under).

This setup was definitely not scum sided, if anything it’s town sided. Town just straight up played bad and mafia sat back.

Mumble made at least 3 huge mistakes.

[Gustavo]

Well, CONGRATULATIONS to Havo & Gus. You did quite well and the NIGHT KILLS in particular were all PERFECT.

GG all. (and special apologies to texcat, but you were definitely the weakest link for me to exploit. SORRY!)

P-edit: I was also a bit lucky he didn't JK my slot at all. My slot made 2 kills AND I claimed 3 successful night actions.

Thanks but I was prett inactive and the game days always hit bad times for me. Lurking wasn’t my strategy.

[Gustavo]

It's so ridiculously hard to lynch lurkers on this site though.

Site meta has to change.

I do agree with this. I used to play on a site that always lynched lurkers day 1. Town won more than scum.

[Gustavo]

It's so ridiculously hard to lynch lurkers on this site though.

Site meta has to change.

I do agree with this. I used to play on a site that always lynched lurkers day 1. Town won more than scum.

This. If you don’t like lurkers and inactives you HAVE to policy lynch.

After a few months you want need too anymore.

Same with Lynch all Liars.

This. Years ago me and a few others were run off for lying as town. Now it’s accepted practice and some do it intentionally (boonskiies)

[Gustavo]

Why tho?

[Gustavo]

There is a game in signups. I’d be down for a mafia scum social experiment. Lynch lurker day 1

[Gustavo]

Why tho?

Definitely

not

"for the fun if it". I lie when I deem needed. For example, I once faked PGO as the Town Vig, because I obviously didn't want to get shot early by scum.

That’s different. I’m talking about poeple who fake claim roles when they are Vt.

[Gustavo]

I’ve only played 20 or so games here. But the one thing that jumped out at me early is that on this site town rarely plays as a team. Towns here have a habit of destroying each other. So I definitely let that play out. Just set back and watch it burn. Lol.

This

[Gustavo]

Fuck you.

Be mad. That’s good. It helps you learn

He’s 100% right. Town had a chance to salvage themselves and you not backing off bbt hurt town. You not protecting a claimed Pr hurt town. You not speaking up to save shoshin hurt town.

[Gustavo]

I never heard of parity cop but that was a very detailed fake claim.

[Gustavo]

I tbink the lesson to be learned is when there is a huge argument and people get quiet. Take a break, get those other people involved and then go back and see if that’s still how you feel.

I say this yet can’t follow my own advice.