Gerrymandering Shadow Government Democracy Mafia Endgame

[Ausuka]

It looks like we're going to play the "everyone nominates themselves for president before we have any idea what the gamestate is like" game and that's boring.

[Ausuka]

HURT: mutantdevle

Also lol I'm glad I'm here for the start of the game because I can already tell this will be a spamfest.

[Ausuka]

I think there's clear benefit in creating parties/townblocs between players.

idk mutant. Isn't assassination a political thing to do?

[Ausuka]

It looks like we're going to play the "everyone nominates themselves for president before we have any idea what the gamestate is like" game and that's boring.

It is CLEARLY a part of the design of the set-up that this is to happen, for we have TWO chances to select our party

I think it is USEFUL data to ascertain to see whom steps up and WHY

"I think I am a good player so I announce my candidacy" and "I don't think I am a good player so I announce my candidacy" isn't really useful data? I think it would be a lot more useful if we waited until later because then there are game-related reasons for everything.

[Ausuka]

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Note that I'm not really scumreading FD but I'm not comfortable calling anyone scum yet so for now this will do. I don't know how to read purr but I think nosf is an easy read so that's fine.

I made a format for official campaign posts:

Code: Select all

My alignment is []
My party is called []
I/We should be president because []
My/Our policies are []
Players I am likely to execute are []

Obviously you can spice it up a bit because that's fairly boring and uncreative but I think it's a good guideline for what should be contained in a post.

I don't see much advantage in trying as hard as we can to make this a normal game of mafia with inconvenient lynching mechanics. I also don't see how electing obvtown and letting them kill without mafia evidence is worse than letting mafia vote and influence our lynch. Obviously we still do discussion as normal, just with the absence of voting for a lynch.

I don't really like any of the parties so far enough to join them but I might end up joining one at some point. Most likely is probably Ruby's but obviously anything could change.

[Ausuka]

Holy shit how long did it take you to color every single letter differently?

https://www.stuffbydavid.com/textcolorizer

[Ausuka]

I don't see much advantage in trying as hard as we can to make this a normal game of mafia with inconvenient lynching mechanics. I also don't see how electing obvtown and letting them kill without mafia evidence is worse than letting mafia vote and influence our lynch. Obviously we still do discussion as normal, just with the absence of voting for a lynch.

what does this mean btw?

I think we should elect obvtown and let them have authority over the lynch, taking non-binding advice from the other players.

[Ausuka]

There is no

gurantee

that this 'obvious townie' isn't just a deep wolf and this policy just enables them to have their way with the lynch.

I think there are several players in this game who can be metaread to the extent that they are basically guaranteed to be town. Also if the towniest player to the game (or close to it) is scum we just lose anyway.

Besides, being obviously townie =!= good reads.

Well yeah? The majority of players generally don't have good reads either and town gets lynched most of the time. If we elect competent obvious town I believe that can optimize our odds of lynching scum.

[Ausuka]

I don't think there's any point in discussing the districts. There's no way to tell what the mafia were thinking and what they did with the districts, and even if we could work that out I don't think it would do much good for us.

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[Ausuka]

Who do you believe is scum based on district placement? I don't see how we can identify scum based on their district placement but feel free to prove me wrong.

Ruby's party is the best because she's more likely to be town than the others. NK15 is town too but joining his party would imply I support ideas which I don't support.

[Ausuka]

I think there's a very reasonable chance we have at least 1 all-town group of 3. And to me the placement is all WIFOM because the mafia control it. Like, mafia could have put most of their members in New York or Theme Park to spread WIFOM and/or get a guaranteed Mafia-controlled seat. Or they could have put 2-3 members in a group of 3. There's no way to tell and that's why I don't think we should do speculation on that- I think just regular scumhunting will end up being a lot more productive.

Spoiler: My experience with players going off memory

FIGHTING DREAMERS (the worst / SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis hydra)- Have played with both heads multiple times.
NicoRobin- Never played with outside marathons.
Firebringer- Played with once.
Iconeum- Played with multiple times.
Hebichan- Never played with.
ArcAngel9- Never played with, have modded a game with them in it.
Edosurist- Played with once.
Myloninja13- Played with multiple times.
123456789- Played with multiple times, have modded a game with them in it.
Wraith- Never played with.
Blind Bandits (Nosferatu / Purrcocet hydra) Have played with both heads multiple times.
Aronis- Never played with.
Ruby Red- Played with multiple times.
Tazaro- Never played with.
Not Known 15- Never played with.
Whemestar- Played with once.
Invisibility- Played with once.
mutantdevle- Played with once.

[Ausuka]

I'm fine with the no electoral fraud rule.

[Ausuka]

AHIRU-TAN CHECKING IN

Ausuka how are you hard town reading NK15?

Feels genuine, like he really wants to help the town. I think he's a mechanically inclined player from what I've seen of him on the site so it makes sense that he would propose something like he did.

competent obvious town

See this is a cchallenge bc this player would need to have.

1. Decent townplaly
2. Decent reads
3. Bad/obvious scumplay


Throw some names at me?

Ruby Red/blind bandits if they post enough/potentially Altcher would fit that category. What I meant by "competent" wasn't "decent townplay and decent reads" just "will not make a hero shot on obvious town and generally use president power in a VI way" so that means we can elect Mylo or me too. And that's just the townies that are obvious via meta; I think we can probably get accurate townreads outside meta (and if we can't we probably just lose regardless of who we elect.) Other people can probably make metareads on other players outside the ones I've listed, too.

Fighting dreamers is scum

Invisiblity is scum.

FD maybe. Why do you think Invis?

Wait, what if I’m not eligible to vote? I can’t vote in real life lol.

Oh hey Mylo is probably scum in this game. That's nice.

I townread Ircher so far.

Everyone must join a party or create a party within the first 60 hours of this game. (Countdown: (expired on 2018-06-14 00:00:00).)

JOIN: SNK☆TUFATMLIOSP

.

I'm voting for the party that has cried out, boastfully exhibiting their brain power. Either they have enough brain to presidentially hammer scum, or else we can re-perceive their boasting with healthy skepticism if they fail us.

Trust me about political philosophy; I'm a philosopher (Immanuel Kant level!)

(202 was largely a meme post btw I think your attitude is healthy and pragmatic)

idk which of these posts I should scumread more tbh.

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[Ausuka]

Also I feel like there's probably roles related to the crier mechanic because it's really odd so give me like 10 hours and I'll think of some things we can do with those

join scum lynch day one party

[Ausuka]

Ausuka I'm gonna need you to talk about why you scumread me here. You know my personality and sense of humour so this doesn't feel like an actual read you have.

Please don't misread our slot just because SIMYK is a nightmare to read accurately

Your slot just feels really slimy this game, like you're trying to powerwolf (for lack of a better tone) and lead the town. Something that I don't like in particular is SIMYK's treatment of her mutant scumread. Another thing I don't like is your treatment of me and NK15- you say that you wanted me to help you sort him but you haven't really been engaging with me in any meaningful way about him. Basically I don't feel like you're really engaged with scumhunting but you want to look like you are.

doesn't feel like an actual read you have.

and for the record this is not alignment shading, I'm suggesting you're reading my head with confirmation bias >:

Can you explain this please? How am I confbiased about you?

We could always do unofficial voting for whom to "remove" and that could be taken as disqualifying a person as a nominee for president, if I am not mistaken?
So that was a post to make sure I post before I go for some hours (I say that so don't post at me thinking I'll reply very soon), but really we should do this^

In pursuance to this, I **

Disqualify

** Whemestar. Whom do you wish to disqualify, If I may ask of our good fellow people?

I am officially scumreading Tazaro now.

OMG mutant did you use mechanics to advertise your game

No .


I mean, clearly no one wants to join my party. And I get to use this ability every 36 hours. With nothing else to say, why not?

I would be very, very surprised if there is no mechanic related to the crier ability considering that we can post policies ourselves and it feels like the mechanic would just have no purpose unless there were PRs involved. One thing that's crossed my mind is a cop/lie detector role- I thought about this a bit earlier which is why I put the "my alignment is x" in the crier formatting post. Another possible role is a sort of assassin based on crier posts? but I don't know exactly how that would work and I don't think there's a way to use it unlike the lie detector thing.

[Ausuka]

Mylo, what are your reads?

[Ausuka]

Im claming masons with mylo

If you're gonna fakeclaim mason at least do it with a townie

[Ausuka]

There is roughly a 0.01% chance this is a real claim lol. Wheme did something similar the last game I played with him.

[Ausuka]

There is roughly a 0.01% chance this is a real claim lol. Wheme did something similar the last game I played with him.

I do not remember that game.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=72727
You fakeclaimed masons with Creature. He was a mafia neighbour.

.... Ergo ....

We could always do unofficial voting for whom to "remove" and that could be taken as disqualifying a person as a nominee for president, if I am not mistaken?
So that was a post to make sure I post before I go for some hours (I say that so don't post at me thinking I'll reply very soon), but really we should do this^

In pursuance to this, I **

Disqualify

** Whemestar. Whom do you wish to disqualify, If I may ask of our good fellow people?

Ergo ... Don't doubt me on this

What scum motivation do you believe scum!Wheme has for what he's doing?

[Ausuka]

Oh so you think he shouldn't be president because you think he's antitown. Who's actual scum then?

[Ausuka]

Are there reasons for that or is it a gut feeling?

[Ausuka]

6. In 211:

What I meant by "competent" wasn't "decent townplay and decent reads" just "will not make a hero shot on obvious town and generally use president power in a VI way" so that means we can elect Mylo or me too. And that's just the townies that are obvious via meta

Clarify what you mean by "and generally use president power in a VI way". As far as I'm aware, VI generally stands for Village Idiot here, and I don't think that's what you mean.

That's what I mean. Basically what I meant was that they would use their shot competently.

10. In 245:

I would be very, very surprised if there is no mechanic related to the crier ability considering that we can post policies ourselves and it feels like the mechanic would just have no purpose unless there were PRs involved. One thing that's crossed my mind is a cop/lie detector role- I thought about this a bit earlier which is why I put the "my alignment is x" in the crier formatting post. Another possible role is a sort of assassin based on crier posts? but I don't know exactly how that would work and I don't think there's a way to use it unlike the lie detector thing.

I don't think there is a mechanic related to the crier ability. I feel like it is just an additional way for parties to try to recruit people.

I mean you're very likely just wrong then. Also, what do we have to lose? Nothing. Because anything that's said in a crier post can be said in a normal post, which is exactly why the mechanic is related to roles in the first place. I stand by the fact that any candidate should 100% announce their alignment, or someone else's, in a post (for example, "Wraith is aligned with the Town.")

Nice choice Wraith!

^Refusing to give game-related content. This is scum!Mylo.

@ausuka any updates to the readslist in 211

have some questions but dont want to be asking about outdated reads

I'll post an updated version at the end of this post.

Ehhh more just unsure what to do rn

Join Fighting Dreamers' party; or, heck, vote for me and get me elected--I'll take care of things <iron fist>

I feel like only scum would make a name that long. I'd be more inclined to join the lynch scum day 1 party, but I don't have any faith in their ability to actually do what they say.

clearly scum who doesn't want a member dead day 1

policy put them into a lynch pool?

Or policy dump Theme Park denizens into a lynch pool. Or whatever group you please. What is your pleasure, Aronis?

what...? what does being in Theme Park have to do with anything?

Anyone not joining the party of claimed masons is a scum claim

This is scummy.

How can you have death row without having some people already in lynch pool prison?

I'm seriously not sure what you're getting at. We execute scummy people. Lynchpools are optional and putting people in lynchpools based on districts is just ridiculous.

wtf is this game

D2 record is solid too.

Just don't believe her if she claims a guilty

Blind bandits is probably town.

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[Ausuka]

I wish my district name wasn't 'Theme Park'.

[Ausuka]

I wish my district name wasn't 'Theme Park'.

And I wish I didn't have to live under a bridge in central park, but here we are

I'm just interested in what will happen because when Mylo said that the mod changed the name for him

[Ausuka]

Ausuka and Ruby how are you reading 123456789? if you have a strong read rn

He's probably town.

[Ausuka]

hbd ausuka owo

hbd ausuka

Thanks!!!!

[Ausuka]

Okay so I kinda think Tazaro is lynchbait town now. His actions are strange but not thinking they're scummy rn.

Also wheme, what would you do as president?

[Ausuka]

NicoRobin
Wraith
FIGHTING DREAMERS
Tazaro
Lurkconeum
Myloninja13

Can you give elaborations on these reads? (Mostly for a starting point.) (Not that I have too much in reads at the moment; I should but I haven't been focusing quite that intently yet.)

Top two haven't done anything.
FD I've expanded on, mostly gut feeling.
Tazaro is Tazaro.
Iconeum hard lurks as scum.
Mylo also hates scum and is actively refusing to actually play mafia despite requests for reads. Town him CAN be useful and helpful, he's choosing to active lurk.

[Ausuka]

I don't rate that as likely. Someone as scum might be familiar with you guys and not me? Or maybe they know me but I'm just too generic to be in a pool idk. I'll leave it to mutant because this isn't my forte.

[Ausuka]

[Ausuka]

I'm awake!

And by the way, I was the one who actually changed the name of my district lol. It's my special superpower!

See, I told you guys PRs are based on mechanics! We really should do that lie detector thing, ngl I almost forgot too...

[Ausuka]

Shitpostbloc is more likely to be riddled with antitown town than scum but I still kinda feel like we should shoot in there :3

If you shoot Mylo you could shoot in the shitpost bloc AND hit scum.

[Ausuka]

Gut saying fabulousbringer isn't bringing much fabulous (nor fire)

pedit: lie detector thing?

Based on mechanics lie detector is most likely pr for the crier and we lose nothing by testing it so people should make a crier post saying “I, username, am aligned with the town“

[Ausuka]

Gut saying fabulousbringer isn't bringing much fabulous (nor fire)

pedit: lie detector thing?

Based on mechanics lie detector is most likely pr for the crier and we lose nothing by testing it so people should make a crier post saying “I, username, am aligned with the town“

I'd be down, how do we do this?

I guess just submit that as your crier post? With fighting dreamers instead of username of course.

[Ausuka]

PM the mod presumably asking him to post that message.

[Ausuka]

I feel like if you have to have the mod announce you're town, you're probably not town. If you were really town it'd be obvious from your behavior

what

[Ausuka]

Hi!

I finished finals so I have time to play this now! I shall get around to reading this soon. Also I'm semi v/la this weekend specifically because I'm graduating, but I should have lots more time come Monday!

congrats skitter!

[Ausuka]

I feel like if you have to have the mod announce you're town, you're probably not town. If you were really town it'd be obvious from your behavior

what

I feel like if you can't understand that post, you're scum. If you were town it'd be obvious what I'm saying because then we'd both be town and thinking alike. But since you don't get it, we can't both be the same alignment and since I'm town, you must not be.

No I just feel like either you're scum or you have absolutely no clue what we're doing with the mod announcements. They are for lie detectors. Why do you think that if two players don't understand each other they have to be TvS?

[Ausuka]

Oh uh Mylo might be town actually.

[Ausuka]

There are a lot of unreadable players in this game. I townread most of the players I have solid reads on so I'm guessing there's scum in them.

[Ausuka]

If you oppose fighting dreamers you should just vote for ruby.

[Ausuka]

Who is scum in Ruby's party?

If FD is town I don't want them dead d1.

[Ausuka]

Sure, I voted ruby.

[Ausuka]

I think that ircher is town.

[Ausuka]

i agree that edos is probably scum there? unsure what else to say

[Ausuka]

I think we should lynch edosurist and just leave aronis to the vig.

[Ausuka]

Of course do that if he flips town.

[Ausuka]

And Aronis is scummy and presumably Tw's other lynch choice so...

[Ausuka]

Yeah tw is town

[Ausuka]

Omg I forgot to respond to that thing

[Ausuka]

Yeah tw is town and should be our president again today imo.

(also can people do the lie detector thing again please with nothing else in the post because it costs nothing etc)

[Ausuka]

I think hebichan is scum and even if she isn't she can't live to lylo so meh I support her dying at some point. If any other town doublevoted they should admit it to minimize town death and really town shouldn't be doublevoting...

[Ausuka]

did you doublevote?

[Ausuka]

ok sorry D:

[Ausuka]

tw is just town lol

[Ausuka]

okay so I'm just going to come out and say this since people are ignoring me and we probably have some sort of protection other than presidential bodyguard. I'm a 2-shot lie detector on presidential mod posts, so yes we do actually need to do the lie detector thing.

[Ausuka]

Also I'm really surprised nobody connected the dots that I didn't mysteriously determine that there was a lie detector SPECIFICALLY on presidential posts through some sort of mystery magic setup spec

[Ausuka]

Also yes I have an inno on tw so we can stop talking about if he's somehow fake cleared or not

somewhat annoying that my invest died n1 but oh well. I considered investigating mutant but if his info about how to make presidential posts was false that could have messed up the investigation so I decided to go with tw instead.

[Ausuka]

Players may vote on Election Day even if they have already voted by postal vote during the Campaigning Phase. This is considered electoral fraud.

@Aronis. Nothing is said about the player's alignment.

[Ausuka]

Yes, that was it.

[Ausuka]

Because he was my only conftown but he doesn't want presidency so...

[Ausuka]

Yeah. But I can only do it during the night if you guys post that you are town. So.

Hold on actually I should clarify something.

[Ausuka]

Yeah that's what I was going to clarify: whether something counts as a lie if the person saying it didn't know it was false.

[Ausuka]

Uhhh. So can we like do the lie detector thing. It doesn't count as a lie if the person doesn't know it's a lie so we're gonna have to stick with clearing people running for president/not in a party.

[Ausuka]

Uhhh. So can we like do the lie detector thing. It doesn't count as a lie if the person doesn't know it's a lie so we're gonna have to stick with clearing people running for president/not in a party.

Do you want me to make some sort of post for it? Would that help? if so just let me know and I'll submit w/e you want

Just pm'ing the mod to make a presidential post saying "I, Aronis, am aligned with the town" would be great thanks

[Ausuka]

Even making the argument that not everyone technically agreed to the no doublevote rule, not admitting to what you did when Edosurist was incorrectly on the chopping block is worthy of a lynch imo. Like, town in that spot really should have just come out and said "Yeah, I doublevoted, I admit it, I felt like it was the best thing for my wincon and I didn't agree to not doing it" and took the personal loss of presidential ability because it was obvious that town as a collective was going after the doublevoters. The fact that they are only coming out now when it is obvious what they did is immensely suspicious to me.

[Ausuka]

I mean I'm not locked into targeting Aronis tonight but the more options I have the better it is imo.

[Ausuka]

Ruby and Wheme doing the same thing as Aronis (substituting aronis' name for whoever you are) would be helpful and I'll listen to towny people's opinions on which person I should target.

[Ausuka]

I'll vote for whoever promises to kill hebichan.

[Ausuka]

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[Ausuka]

Like her whole protest claim really seems like a way to try and scare us out of lynching her.

[Ausuka]

i'm starting to think jjh calling this a meme game may be relevant.

[Ausuka]

ruby red for president!

[Ausuka]

Honestly I don't think we should care whether hebichan wins or not. We shouldn't go out of our way to make sure she wins but if she wins before we get rid of her that's honestly okay?

[Ausuka]

true but I'm assuming they can maybe we shouldn't take the chance actually.

That just means we need to get the people in the greatest city in the world to agree on their candidate today.

[Ausuka]

That could just involve having Aronis win that district while the rest of us elect mutant.

[Ausuka]

(can we please have no double votes this time thank you in advance)

[Ausuka]

I'm not sure whether to vote for ruby or mutant tbh.

[Ausuka]

i voted for ruby red.

[Ausuka]

I currently plan to lie detect ofrhz tonight ftr

[Ausuka]

I, ofrhz, am aligned with the town.

what else?

[Ausuka]

uh, no? I already had an inno on tw?

[Ausuka]

i can only target the modposts, i have claimed this. that is why i wanted everyone to say they are town with the modposts.

[Ausuka]

besides, she should die anyway so there's not much point. like that is an incredibly suboptimal target.

[Ausuka]

So should we go ahead and do it anyway?

[Ausuka]

HURT: tazaro

[Ausuka]

NK15 needs to do the mod post thing first.

[Ausuka]

I mean I suppose that'd be ok, the last part I'm planning to do? but I feel like there are better lynches than nk15? then again I'm out of touch with this game so

[Ausuka]

i hope this isn't like too rude to say but I feel like if tazaro is a vig they might just be a liability to town anyway.

this is a really weird game in which a lot of people are around a similar nullscum area.

[Ausuka]

I'm not a guy thank you very much.

Also that isn't how muffin's role worked according to the flip???

[Ausuka]

Ohhhhh sorry lol internally I still see ofrhz as the upside down duckling tbh.

[Ausuka]

Thanks for modding jjh.