Gerrymandering Shadow Government Democracy Mafia Endgame

[ofrhz]

ofrhz!!!!
hi hi hi!!

ofrhz replaces Iconeum.

OFRHZ MY DUDE WELCOME

Hi guys! Good to play with both of you again

[ofrhz]

Sorry I’ve been busy the last few days

Reading now

[ofrhz]

I'm basically all caught up, but I don't really have anything new to add lol

I think we should lynch in the New York district with edos being my top pick, tazaro, then hebichan

---

the general comfort with lynching Edo is pinging me as well.

I already said the consensus is disgusting

Where do you think we should lynch today

[ofrhz]

@Wraith I love the Cause and the Motherland and I love all men equally but.... our relationship needs work

Taz isn't impossible for a double vote. let me check if I'm thinking of party pt stuff but his stance on gamestate is OK.

I wouldn't be surprised if he double voted as town tbh.

Ignoring the double voting issue for a sec, do you have an independent read on him

As an aside, I think double voting is PL worthy this game

[ofrhz]

o hai ofrhz

why that order of lynches?

I think it's likely either edos didn't vote or he doublevoted. I see no reason for him to lie if he only voted once. If edos was telling the truth and didn't vote, then that means two people double voted...? In which case I think tazaro and hebichan are the most likely double voters, but I think this is kinda unlikely.

I'm concerned that Tazaro doesn't seem to care that someone double voted in his district. I think town would care more about that. Like if I were town, I'd want to get rid of double voters because having someone double voting is diminishing my own vote. So he's scummy even if he didn't double vote here.

hebichan I don't have a strong read on one way or another, but I found myself agreeing with her on her thought process wrt to her lynchpool. On the off chance edos didn't vote, I think hebi may have doublevoted because she was expressing doubts about her party and may have wanted to hedge her bets

I was townreading mylo for his frankness surrounding using his role. I feel like scum would have played their cards closer to their chest there.

You already said you wouldn't consider lynching ruby today, but yeah, ruby isn't a good D1 lynch if she's who I think she is.

[ofrhz]

do you think you are?

I'd say no, because I'm pretty obvious town, but you're also pretty terrible at reading people, so I might say yes cause of that

I kinda want to TR aronis based on the reasoning of "too much of a dick to be scum"

[ofrhz]

Nk15 for president

Also this means Tazaro likely voted twice too? Although I suppose there is a small possibility that edos lied about not going but I think his green flip makes this unlikely

[ofrhz]

Nk15 for president

Also this means Tazaro likely voted twice too? Although I suppose there is a small possibility that edos lied about not going but I think his green flip makes this unlikely

What about Ruby Red?

Ruby red was in two districts and the other district didn’t have any double votes so I don’t think it was her

Voting aside, her alt personality is making it hard for me to get a solid read on her

[ofrhz]

Yeah I assumed her vote had to be the same in both districts

Although I still think it’s unlikely she double voted. Why would she run for president on page 1 of the game but not want to win

[ofrhz]

Hebi’s “I thought ruby would win my district/the presidency” excuse doesn’t really make sense considering the party alignments in her district were:

2 for FD (taz and edos)
2 for ruby (ruby and hebi)
1 for wheme (Mylo)

This district was a toss up and if she wanted to double vote as a reaction test, I don’t see why she didn’t double vote ruby. Like this makes me think she double voted but wanted to avoid culpability

[ofrhz]

Firstly, it's exceedingly obvious that Tazaro was the second fraud voter. Since you admit to splitting your fraudulent vote (which is in itself completely inexplicable and arguably the scummiest aspect of your claim) that means the other fraudulent voter

also

committed their fraud to vote for The Worst. Since Tazaro was a member of SNKP at the time, he is the go-to suspect. My suspicion of Tazaro is further stoked by how he was fixated on viewing the Theme Park District as a lynch pool for no apparent reason, apparently in all seriousness. And must I remind you all, Theme Park was the stronghold of SPP yesterday.

Secondly, I think the dynamics of the gerrymandering, which was orchestrated by the scum, make it

exceedingly

clear that SPP is a town party, and the scum are seeking to marginalize us. They are quite overtly attempting to make today's election a two-horse race between SNKP (whose members have

been proven to have committed multiple acts of voter fraud to elect their man (!!!)

and whose president executed a townie) and LSDOP. Therefore, I trust neither.

I urge the town to vote for the SPP candidate.

I agree with point 1

Not sure about point 2 though

Given the discontent with the SNKP term, I think it was pretty clear by the end of D1 that the SNKP wouldn't be a strong contender in D2 elections
I think I understand what you're saying wrt the SPP members being purposefully spread out. but at the end of the day, whemestar said he was townreading hebi, so I don't foresee myself joining that party. I don't see the merits in throwing my weight behind a candidate who likely won't lynch my top scumspect, all town party or not

[ofrhz]

This is really simple. I know it sounds bad, but it's not. Voter fraud is a good thing, not a bad thing for us. The mafia have a lot of control over who is in what district. They don't need power roles to manipulate voting, because they can already do it by placing you in your districts. The town needs these brave vigilantes to go out and fight back against the mafias control over the districts by committing voter fraud. Hebichan is not mafia, Hebichan is a saint.

You all tried your 'lynch pool' strategy yesterday. You elected the SNK party leader and enabled the worst presidency. We saw a leadership that was incapable of functioning properly. It was plagued by indecisiveness and it led to a town lynch. Don't let that happen again. Vote Aronis and say goodbye to this horrific lynch pool that is going to give way to townie after townie dying and embrace a better future where we lynch scum.

Suppose I accept your premise that double voting is more beneficial for town in order to combat the gerrymandered districts

This doesn’t apply in hebi’s case because she didn’t double vote to thwart the scum-manipulated districts; she allegedly did it as a reaction test (which doesn’t explain why she voted two different people)

I still don’t understand why you townclear hebi by virtue of her double voting without taking into consideration the motivations behind her doing so

[ofrhz]

/join mutante party

Does this mean your candidacy is automatically withdrawn

[ofrhz]

thinking taz might be town

We already killed Edosurist for this "big deal" about nothing at all. Aronis is right on this and so am I.

The case against hebi has only been growing though
like her double voting isn't the only reason why I'm scumreading her
It's the double vote + bad reason for double vote + voting for two different people + letting edos get lynched (and in fact, pushing for edos to get lynched because she, in all her hypocrisy, wanted to out the double voter)

[ofrhz]

join mutante

[ofrhz]

this would not have happened if we elected supreme leader ruby red

Does this mean you still support ruby for president

I’m not sure what ruby would have done differently as president considering she was also in support of an edos lynch.

[ofrhz]

So you double voted yesterday to try and achieve a tied district?

[ofrhz]

That role is so out there, I actually believe it

So if hebi is in a tied district today, we have to lynch her, if I’m understanding correctly

[ofrhz]

Ugh

[ofrhz]

Okay new plan

We plan to lynch hebi anyway to neutralize her one shot protest ability and then kill someone else

The people in her district need to just vote for the same person today. Then we can kill her tomorrow

*looks at district composition*

Shit

[ofrhz]

Uhhh. So can we like do the lie detector thing. It doesn't count as a lie if the person doesn't know it's a lie so we're gonna have to stick with clearing people running for president/not in a party.

{Blind Bandits, ofrhz} is a great cop pool ftr

Hmmm I think I'd have to get mutant to temporarily pass control of his party to me in order to do this

I don't think I can form a party and run for president because I just joined this one today

@mod, how many times can a party change its leader in one campaign phase?

[ofrhz]

Idk why taz fruaded for you, if he didnt things would have gone better for me. Really dumb role to win with.

I’m still not sure why you revealed your role. I feel like you still had a chance of winning

[ofrhz]

endorse: mutantdevle

My short lived presidential run was fun while it lasted

[ofrhz]

Have you reconsidered your party tenets

[ofrhz]

Yay ruby’s back!

If hebi can’t be lynched today because of her protest ability, where would you look?

Pedit: not sure how I feel about a raptors fan being president :/

[ofrhz]

That role is so out there, I actually believe it

So if hebi is in a tied district today, we have to lynch her, if I’m understanding correctly

can you explain this again? i don't understand the connection between being in a tied district today and lynching her; her district wasn't tied yesterday, it was 3-2-1

she can technically win by the end of tomorrow’s election phase without us ever getting the chance to lynch her.

The sequence of events would be like:
- election phase —> tied district d2 (hebi’s first tied district)
- lynch phase (tries and fails to lynch hebi)
- election phase —> tied district d3 —-> hebi automatically achieves her wincon

^ in that scenario, I think hebi would win even if she gets lynched d3 because she will technically have been in two tied districts throughout the game

If today we make sure the greatest city in the world doesn’t have a tie, then it’ll be mechanically impossible for hebi to win. We can always try to make hebi’s district not a tie tomorrow but with her night action that moves around districts, idk if I want to bet on that.

Basically, the issue is that once the election results are out and hebi is in a 2nd tied district, she can win before we get a chance to even lynch her. We ideally should lynch her right after her first tied district but her protest ability makes this difficult.

[ofrhz]

That’s assuming town and third party can win together though

[ofrhz]

Why do you care if I win,

my win doesnt end the game

, as far as I'm aware. I just leave the game.

This wasn't clear to me

[ofrhz]

Oh cool VOTE: ofrhz

I isod a random person and that random person turned out to be scum you got bad luck friend

what why

[ofrhz]

wtf is this game

[ofrhz]

When I’m president if I kill scum I become scum if I kill Town I become town

Vt and goon respectfully

Is that the right word idk

me irl

can we just lynch wheme

mfw i realize i never should've left the open queue

[ofrhz]

Dude seems like obv scum

W H Y

I’m surprised I’m obv anything

[ofrhz]

Wheme did fullclaim? It was just bullshit.

I think his earlier full claim was a joke based on 1408

I think his win condition is pretty obvious.......

It’s not obvious to me

[ofrhz]

E L E C T I O N D A Y H Y P E

[ofrhz]

I voted for mutant!

[ofrhz]

Ofrhz voting for mutant makes me think mutant shouldn’t be president

Mutant 4 president

[ofrhz]

WhemeStar's revelations have done nothing to shake my faith in our great leader and his vision

Not even his third party claim?

[ofrhz]

E L E C T I O N R E S U L T S H Y P E

I expect my district to go to mutant

[ofrhz]

Hey doesn’t look like anyone frauded this time

[ofrhz]

who the fuck voted for whemestar

Wraith and wheme presumably

[ofrhz]

HURT: hebichan

[ofrhz]

It wouldn’t have made a difference if ruby had voted or not I think

You winning that four-way tiebreaker in NY mattered a lot though

[ofrhz]

how problematic is hebi's role?

We don't know. Considering hebi was partially lying about her protest ability, I don't think we can trust what she says her wincon is

[ofrhz]

Mr President, protesters seem to have gathered in light of your recent decision to lynch Hebichan.

It is possible that following through on this course of action will significantly affect your approval ratings.

Are you sure you want to lynch Hebichan? At any rate,

the protestors will prevent you from following through on this particular course of action for the next (expired on 2018-07-06 16:15:00), and you may change your decision if you so wish.

Bad approval ratings could mean the president cannot run again

[ofrhz]

I think we should lynch hebi anyway

[ofrhz]

To the dummies hurting me lemme ask you

What scum motivation is there to counterclaim a third party claim?

I do think there is some merit to this

[ofrhz]

HURT: tazaro

[ofrhz]

HURT: hebi

[ofrhz]

Current running tally is 5 for wheme, 3 for taz and hebi I think

[ofrhz]

Lol

Try quoting someone else’s post with the hurt tags

[ofrhz]

Code: Select all

[hurt]tazaro[/hurt]

[ofrhz]

Where’s ruby

[ofrhz]

What is this game

Taz, are you claiming one-shot vig or do you get multiple shots?

[ofrhz]

I don’t believe that scum would target nico/muffin last night, so I’m kind of doubting taz’s claim right now

[ofrhz]

Also not gonna sugarcoat things, TW is such a shitty vig shot. Why would you target him? It doesn’t make sense

[ofrhz]

HURT: tazaro

[ofrhz]

Lynch orfhz or not known

Seriously?

Also why don’t you want to lynch hebi if you cc’ed her

[ofrhz]

ugh

[ofrhz]

I don't get these districts. It's like scum wanted the election to be a tied race

[ofrhz]

if I die I hope I can vengekill your shitty attitude

let's not

LOL nice

[ofrhz]

I thought his claim was fake and the fact that he wasn't shamed for double voting meant he was more likely to be scum

Also he was just... scummy

[ofrhz]

I want to lynch the oath/firebringer slot tbh

[ofrhz]

sadface

i'm town

oath and hebi would be great lynches. bb and nk15 are okay as well

you have two people claiming third party. it's very likely that one of them is scum unless you think wheme cc'd hebi as town, which is unlikely based on his posting since he is pretty committed to his third party claim

[ofrhz]

It’s likely the scum kill was roleblocked n1. Otherwise, you or someone else would have died based on what taz said.

Or scum killed the NicoRobin slot but that’s hard to believe

[ofrhz]

here we go.
hebi is a self judgement call
if anyone very very strongly disagrees with anyone in either bracket speak up

the worst
skitter30
Myloninja13
123456789
Wraith
Aronis
Ruby Red
mutantdevle
Hebichan


Oath
ofrhz
Blind Bandits (Nosferatu / Purrcocet hydra)
Not Known 15
Whemestar
Invisibility



pedit: yes mutant

I'm tone townreading invisibility and i think hebi should be swapped with wheme

[ofrhz]

The above is annotated by where I think people are gonna vote Election Day. Thoughts?

i'm leaning towards voting tw

[ofrhz]

why is wheme a

TERRIBLE

lynch
also i have no read on blind bandits so retract my vote on tw for now

why do you think blind bandits is town

[ofrhz]

wait a fucking second to think of what a fucking dumbass question that is

holy shit

Well considering the person you're planning to vote for has also killed town, it seems like a reasonable inquiry

id be voting for worst with the express hope of him killing town

aka me

uh what

[ofrhz]

@to everyone who’s going to vote the worst

Why him

Is it that you agree with his reads?

Maybe you should start agreeing with the people who were against a lynch that flipped town

well for starters, tw doesn't have a 1-person lynchpool who also happens to be town in a 19p game

but you probably weren't asking me

[ofrhz]

I think he should be the lynch. Y'all won't listen to me though and I'm likely gonna be the one to go soooooo

I am Honest Face, I can't be convicted of voter fraud

I am aligned with the town and essentially able to double vote without ramification.

is this your full claim?

[ofrhz]

5. The unfortunate thing about your claim is that it is very uncreative. Easily faked. Hard to prove. For all we know, only scum can out frauders. For us to confirm your role we'd both need to have a town PR that can out fraud votes AND then have them claim.

Even if we could verify her ability, I'm not sure if it would help with verifying her alignment.

[ofrhz]

#gotprodded

nothing has really changed since i last commented on the lynchpool though. still want to see oath lynched

[ofrhz]

Day 1 tied district:

Mayfair Club

Ruby Red: 1 vote
Edosurist: 1 vote
FIGHTING DREAMERS: 1 vote

100% district turnout
Ruby Red wins!

Day 2 tied districts:

The greatest city in the World!

mutantdevle: 1 vote
Aronis: 1 vote
Firebringer: 1 vote
Myloninja13: 1 vote

100% district turnout
mutantdevle wins!

Coney Island

Ruby Red: 1 vote
Whemestar: 1 vote

67% district turnout
Ruby Red wins!

so they obviously heavily favored a Ruby presidency, but failing that, mutant.

[ofrhz]

@blind bandits: why did you guys want ruby to be president?

[ofrhz]

I assumed BB would double vote to try and get someone who didn't express a desire to lynch them, so I voted to try and tie.

I guess I assumed too much.

tw was very likely going to be the president regardless of how BB voted. But you thought BB would double vote for someone else, which would not only draw suspicion to themselves by double voting but also wouldn’t even change the outcome of the election. That’s not very plausible

The only reason for you to vote for tw here that I could think of is if you didn’t want your district to be tied? Which wouldn’t be playing to your alleged wincon

[ofrhz]

Oath still a good lynch. Hebi too

Also bb might be town. Their role makes sense as a balancing mechanism to the gerrymandering ability

[ofrhz]

3. You can keep posting after a lynch occurs until I get around to locking the thread.

i think so

[ofrhz]

because the last guilty worked out

The last guilty was not a hard guilty.

Yes I am serious.
I looked into the alignment of Aronis and it wasn't town.
If you want I can claim...
I am a retired Detective.
Due to my retirement, I will only go active after 3 mislynches(which happened yesterday).
Then I will be able to discern if my target is aligned with the town.
Before I resume my activities I will look like an ordinary voter(which probably means Vanilla).
Unlike a normal cop, I will not be fooled by millers and Godfathers.
But due to my old age I will only be able to act every other night.

Is your result on Aronis mafia or just “not town?”

[ofrhz]

If I’m president I’m lynching orfhz

no >:(

[ofrhz]

I want Wheme to be president because I think he has a good chance of killing mafia and if he does then we can trust him.

what

why are you scumreading me

[ofrhz]

ruby what are your reads

[ofrhz]

btw i don't think nk15 will vote for wheme and wheme is obviously voting for wheme, so hebi's district is very obviously going to tie. if hebi votes again in this election, i'm taking that as a scumclaim from her

[ofrhz]

Lol orfhz is scum

y u hate me

[ofrhz]

i don't know who to vote for

[ofrhz]

tfw one candidate wants to lynch me and the only other viable candidate might be scum

who would you lynch NK15?

[ofrhz]

OFRHZ CAN DIE

no

[ofrhz]

i might just lolvote for skitter

[ofrhz]

i might just lolvote for skitter

wait, but why?

i didn't want to vote for ruby because i'm not TR'ing her. but now i'm thinking voting for ruby wouldn't be the worst thing. it would at least for some AI content out of her

[ofrhz]

actually this isn't the worst idea but idk what she's thinking at this point in the game so idk if i want to give her full reign over the lynch in exchange of forcing her to produce content . i also don't know if there's another way to force her to produce content tho

would you vote for mutant? your district is you/ruby and i don't remember if ruby can vote in both districts or not so you can like at worst force a tie in your district and let bb resolve it, although i don't remember what they think about mutant offhand

Mutant isn’t even voting for himself though. And I’m not sure if the democratic thing is even a thing if he becomes president or what he’d do as president since he isn’t seriously running this dayphase. I also think ruby’s alignment is more in question rn

Yeah ruby can vote in both districts. I think I’m just going to vote for ruby

[ofrhz]

[ofrhz]

Hm. Maybe Wheme AND Ruby are scum?
These voter turnouts are way too low
Everyone, who didn't vote(except hebichan):
Why did you forget to vote? You could have postal voted...
Every non-vote by town is a vote for scum!

Did you double vote

[ofrhz]

Why vizzy

[ofrhz]

YO KEEP IN MIND

WE HAD A COP THAT CLAIMED THEY WERE GONNA TARGET OFRHZ

You can’t be serious

[ofrhz]

Hm. Maybe Wheme AND Ruby are scum?
These voter turnouts are way too low
Everyone, who didn't vote(except hebichan):
Why did you forget to vote? You could have postal voted...
Every non-vote by town is a vote for scum!

Did you double vote

Yes, because of Hebichan.

-______- I don’t get why

If you thought hebi was lying, then you would’ve wanted the district to tie to test her claim. If you thought she was telling the truth, then there should be no reason to double vote I think?

Although I guess hebi actually is third party

[ofrhz]

i have been prodded

i voted for mutant to be president

HEAL: mutant
HEAL: aronis
HEAL: 123
HEAL: ofrhz
HEAL: mylo

why is aronis town again

[ofrhz]

is the case against scum vizzy that he didn't claim earlier? i still don't follow

[ofrhz]

i think invis is town

i'm having a hard time seeing NK15's posts come from scum with daychat, like the fakeclaim on aronis. this guy is also kind of just lynchbait as town

i think i want to VOTE: ankamius

[ofrhz]

A recent invis game where he was lynched as scum. The circumstances aren't entirely the same (invis replaced into a scummy slot evidently and quickly got lynched), but he kinda just gave up in that game instead of trying to claw his way out of a lynch. His reaction here doesn't feel the same.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10329535

[ofrhz]

Can we kill the person who posted directly above me? Tia

why

i think invis is town

i'm having a hard time seeing NK15's posts come from scum with daychat, like the fakeclaim on aronis. this guy is also kind of just lynchbait as town

i think i want to VOTE: ankamius

I'm sorry but NO.

what part(s) do you disagree with?

[ofrhz]

vizzy what are your scumreads

[ofrhz]

ofrhz i'm tending town on and i don't wheme to lynch him. the one thing that i'm starting to become concerned about here is that wheme has been trying to get him lynched for like a month now and wheme has generally had a fair amount of support but hasn't managed to become president so i'm wondering if the districts have been designed that way on purpose

the districts were also skewed against wheme on d2 though, which was before he started scumreading me

[ofrhz]

VOTE: WhemeStar

why?

[ofrhz]

join: lynch scum day one party

[ofrhz]

VOTE: WhemeStar

why?

He's my strongest townread and I'm too demotivated to find anyone else.

Why not?

But he wants to lynch your townlean aka me

[ofrhz]

consider my vote on mutant

[ofrhz]

i'm kinda wondering why he hasn't just hammered wheme given that i think wheme is still prioritizing ofrhz

They’re scum together

If it’s on them 2 mutant is gonna become president and then we will probably lynch town again

VOTE: mutantdevle

[ofrhz]

HURT: wh4t

[ofrhz]

Town: aronis, skitter, mylo

3p: hebi

Is Ircher still town?

Wh4t, ank, one of vizzy/Ircher

[ofrhz]

So was wheme actually scumreading me

[ofrhz]

VOTE: skitter

i still think we should lynch ank/wh4t over vizzy

[ofrhz]

WTF

[ofrhz]

i didn't see that coming at all skitter, well played!

mfw hebi was actually scum

[ofrhz]

yeah i was very confused when vizzy hammered that shit

yes that was me

i was scumreading hebi from D1 >:( but like all of my other reads were wrong

[ofrhz]

oh er

obligatory sorry for gamethrowing

[ofrhz]

I'm quite proud of my first message to jjh after dying being that the town unison was so shonky there was almost 100% scum in the open queue junkies that I couldn't be bothered sorting (probably excluding ofrhz I think) being like

{mutant skitter30 Rubez}

I do have some setup feedback which I'll prolly throw to jjh privately but I think he's more or less on the same page as what I'd wanna say

this game is like the type of joke I love to tell. it's dubious whether or not it's actually good, but it's definitely funnier for those who have more information

the real question is

did i do the secret towntell this game?

[ofrhz]

wait 123 wasn't roleblocker? what

[ofrhz]

NK15 double voting was -_________- and i think we would've gotten hebi at least if that didn't happen

but we probably would've still lost the game, so all's good

[ofrhz]

i was sad when you were nightkilled we basically lost the game at that point

[ofrhz]

If you read the scum chat, duck was kept alive exactly as long as we needed him though... We kinda had a really solid strat all game, then mutant just told us about the masonry and literally no one else. The opinion polls gave us great mislynch pushes too.

yeah you guys executed this entire game really well.

completely not related to anything but btw i live in seattle too! WHOO WILDFIRES ALL DAY ERRY DAY

[ofrhz]

Thanks for modding jjh!

I kind want to see a similar setup run again just so I can spectate and watch the drama from the sidelines

[ofrhz]

Mutant can you check your PMs