NY 213 - Game Over!

[EspeciallyTheLies]

confirming. no time to post today though. will be tomorrow after work

HI PINE!!

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Public service announcement: I plan on active lurking through D1 at least. This is a very large game, and my reads are traditionally sub-random in crowded D1s.

If he can do this so can I.

Yeah, let's all active lurk and lynch Pine on day 1.

Hey Khan. Guide me.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

VOTE: A50

Follow me to greatness.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i need vla.

if it ends up being for more than a few IRL days and i can't play, i'll help you find a replacement.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Hey everyone!

Ok so I've been skimming up to pg 7 and I am just dying laughing at some of these funny posts. I mean, man. Smokebomb throwing, claiming bp pgo compulsive commuter...one of the funniest games I've seen in awhile.

On a serious note, I don't like asuka mentioning a traitor. I hosted an offsite game where I had a mafia traitor. It really looks like signaling of some sort , what she did. And that's not a good thing for town, if there's a traitor.

Personally I think there exists 4-6 scum in this 25 pool if I were to go by the 20% guideline.

The mentioning of creature lurking on d1 , is true from what I recall. He's the only one I played with in a large normal , years ago. Interestingly he was town that game. Unless it's one of my idols, I don't believe giving someone a free pass just because it's how they play, is a wise idea.

Anyway, have to continue my catchup. I have a big bunch of null right now.

Reading this as scummy

me too

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Hey everyone!

Ok so I've been skimming up to pg 7 and I am just dying laughing at some of these funny posts. I mean, man. Smokebomb throwing, claiming bp pgo compulsive commuter...one of the funniest games I've seen in awhile.

On a serious note, I don't like asuka mentioning a traitor. I hosted an offsite game where I had a mafia traitor. It really looks like signaling of some sort , what she did. And that's not a good thing for town, if there's a traitor.

Personally I think there exists 4-6 scum in this 25 pool if I were to go by the 20% guideline.

The mentioning of creature lurking on d1 , is true from what I recall. He's the only one I played with in a large normal , years ago. Interestingly he was town that game. Unless it's one of my idols, I don't believe giving someone a free pass just because it's how they play, is a wise idea.

Anyway, have to continue my catchup. I have a big bunch of null right now.

Reading this as scummy

me too

This metoo post is not good. ETL, can you tell us anything about why you think the post was scummy?

he said exactly what i was thinking. saying "me too" sums that up pretty well imo. and i think it's scum because it sounds fake as hell and all his posts are LAMIST-y nonsense. "hur hur yah we don't wanna do anything SCUMMY now would we?" <<< that's how all his posts come off. trying waaaaay too hard to be "nonchalant" and to look town without actually being town, not to mention every single "observation" he's made thus far has just been regurgitating facts rather than actual opinions.

he's scum. kill it with fire.

VOTE: performer

[EspeciallyTheLies]

and also i'm pretty sure i declared v/la so i didn't have time to quote and go into it more than pointing out something i agreed with. that's gonna be the case for much of this first game day. personal shit. i'm not gonna waste time defending my short posts for today. deal with it. ALSO ALSO i find it suspicious that you jumped to his defense. just saying.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

hopkirk has too many townreads.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

hopkirk has too many townreads.

What is too many townreads? Why is this an issue?

generally speaking, town have more scum reads on d1 and scum have a hard time not seeing things that make townies town, so they point them out or inadvertently townread more people than they "should". it's not a hard and fast tell since some people are just more gullible in nature but it's a good place to start and consider if the second bit fits the person or not.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

and because some scum will try to protect buddies by throwing a town read at them though that's not as common as it used to be. bussing is very popular these days. but all in all that adds more townreads than would necessarily exist if they were town. also town are naturally looking for reasons to scumread people because they have an objective. scum need to manipulate town away from their buddies. town will naturally have more scumreads in the beginning

[EspeciallyTheLies]

as far as "what is too many", i guess that's subjective. more than i feel he should.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i'm not a fan of jar. i haven't gotten any great townreads yet tbh. gamma comes really close though. i'm not as involved here as i normally would be. just finished a game where i screamed my face off and all it did was make me frustrated. i'm trying to trust people's abilities more and help rather than lead. i don't trust my reads enough anymore plus the size of the this game means i'll probably be more useful later and in the meantime i'll point out things that make sense to me.

i don't know yet if your reads list is indicative or not. we'll see i guess.

pedit: @ hopkirk

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I wasnt questioning his reads because I disagreed with them. Srscreen and ETL had close to zero posts at that time so I wanted to know how he was getting a read off them.

I actually do like this quite a bit, Hopkirk. Oh and fwiw - I think the baseless townreads on A50 are suspicious AF. Like.. a few people were like "eh that guy doesn't look very towny" and then suddenly MULTIPLE PEOPLE decided to jump to his defense and make a scene about how they think he's town and derail the wagon

immediately

. That's just fkn weird.

KHAN

dont be lurky. You're supposed to be showing me how to be awesome.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

how doesn't one wagon have 3 times as many votes as any other? that tells me it's probably not right.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

623 from performer looks like he went looking for reasons to join the biggest wagon

[EspeciallyTheLies]

how doesn't one wagon have 3 times as many votes as any other? that tells me it's probably not right.

Really? Can you explain how that works?

My thinking is that if Osuka were town, he'd already be lynched. It's only when he's scum, and his buddies keep stalling and pushing back on his lynch, that he's still alive.

what makes you think he'd already be lynched? where is the counterwagon that his buddies are helping to push to avoid his lynch? it isn't there. you're telling me all his buddies are bussing?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

No, I think his buddies are still trying to find a wagon that will get some traction.

that's nonsense in a game this large at this point in the day.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

No, I think his buddies are still trying to find a wagon that will get some traction.

that's nonsense in a game this large at this point in the day.

you'd have to somehow believe that all the townies are acting so towny as to be seemingly impossible to lynch and also assume that the scum team is full of idiots. do you believe this to be true?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

No, I think his buddies are still trying to find a wagon that will get some traction.

that's nonsense in a game this large at this point in the day.

you'd have to somehow believe that all the townies are acting so towny as to be seemingly impossible to lynch and also assume that the scum team is full of idiots. do you believe this to be true?

No, the large game means that there are a lot of townies who could potentially be an alternate wagon to scum!Osuka, and it's been hard to gain traction on a single one. Just look at the number of people with one or two votes. Plus it could be that the scum are among the lurkers -- we've certainly got a few. I'm waiting for one of them to step up as we get closer to deadline.

Look at Osuka's votes so far in this game: Wavemode (80) --> JarJarDrinks (124) --> ArcAngel9 (229) --> Pine (332) --> JarJarDrinks (353) --> Performer (769) --> TheRampage (771)
That looks like scum in search of an alternate wagon to me.

scum have an advantage we don't - they can coordinate their efforts in private. i think you're wrong in believing the scum team is completely incapable of organizing where to lynch. they have day chat. unless you believe osuka is not only a rogue within his team but so expendable that they don't even care about losing him, occams razor says it's probably more likely that scum don't have a counterwagon because they don't need one.

i think you're spinning a narrative to fit your read on osuka and you should probably evaluate that. unless you're scum in which case this refusal to understand logic makes more sense.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

623 from performer looks like he went looking for reasons to join the biggest wagon

I'm still open to wagon Performer.

let's do it

[EspeciallyTheLies]

HI DAVE.

performer is confscum. just give him an ISO and review the vote counts to get an idea. osuka is the town sacrifice the scum team is on. 9 votes vs 3 or less elsewhere. tex at has been heavily trying to deflect things away from performer so that's something to look at if perf flips red. i think gamma is town, osuka town by vca. creature maybe? don't get distracted by the shiny jarjar stuff. he's probably town too.

golden robster has done some strange things. he might be worth a closer look in the coming days. almost50 is acting strangely too. i was initially scumreading that but with smiths game over i am inclined to believe the difference means he's town here. dunn can be town too i think. android is another weird one. people also seem to want vax dead. dunno why, i'll have to read more thoroughly for that but on the surface his posts are meh.

those are the ones that stand out for me at the moment.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

people also seem to want vax dead. dunno why, i'll have to read more thoroughly for that but on the surface his posts are meh.

The meh is what grabbed me the most when looking at vax. Do you have background that says it wouldn't be scum indicative?

no i've never played with him.

for the "more" on performer, check my iso. it's quite short at the moment

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Creature naked voted me (suspicious without explanation), stayed active with his one-line posts (good sign). Later he just randomly votes mylon of all people. Later naked voted me again. Added to my sr for fishy sequence of unexplained events

rampage - I do agree with his post 100 talk about lynching lurkers. But his 509 looked very odd for unvoting creature simply since he "took up an entire page." That just makes no sense from town, it looks like a manufactured reason. The rest of the ISO just looked too bare to be town, seemed like coasting scum. He said he would catch up, then posted about being unable to catch up, didn’t say anything about his reads (sr or tr), even did an unneeded claim - in other games, I’ve seen folks do a claim like that with no good reason, later they turned out scum. By this point of the game, he should’ve put up something more than what he's put up.

Etl voted me for my opening post, said it was lamist. See my 623 for further sorting of him. Had sr on jar, me, rampage. gamma & wheme were his tr. I called him out for one of my posts, and he didn't reply about it - looked scummy, like he's brushing it off and just in some death tunnel. All he’s done is keep his vote on me ever since I came in, which makes him even fishier.

literally none of this is true ... i've never even mentioned rampage OR wheme... my vote has stayed on you because i'm convinced you're scum.

not cutting the rest of this fake garbage cuz mobile.

Arcangel - see texcat read for more on my read on arcangel. Also, arcangel voted texcat first, and voted her again in that 604 post. Since we’re nearing the half-day mark, the series of posts from arcangel does not make me tr her. Also in the area of possible lurking scum

wavemode naked voted osuka, voted texcat (my tr), voted the charles slot due to him asking a game setup question (scummy reason to vote someone), did a prodge post, continued lurking, popped up to vote osuka after osuka’s wagon analysis. Definitely suspect line of actions from wavemode, can’t see that [/color]

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Also, your sentence about me sorting the neighborhood being good if wave flips scum, needs to be corrected to me sorting the hood AND other people being good regardless of wave flipping scum. Anyway…. Lol.

EW.

Please lynch this scumbag.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

performer town game here
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=76171

he's waaaay more comfortable and less awkward and try hard.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@Gamma: see 1004 for A/B.
Why does wave not being bought up before matter?

Because it feels strange as heck that he just pops up as the hot topic

Same, I don't understand why suddenly everyone is on him when he hasn't posted and wasn't talked about before.

Needed a counter wagon

Not sure if you're trying to be sarcastic or not, but this is absolutely, 100% true, and if wave is lynched today and flips town, yall better lynch performer.

Or, you know, we could lynch scum

today...

[EspeciallyTheLies]

VOTE: wavemode
I am willing to do this.

Not surprised

I'd put money on scumPerformer = scumTexcat.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Gonna catch up today but first I wanna throw this out there:

Lurker Lynch?

I know people are often against it around these parts but this game seems pretty ripe for it.


I'll see how I feel about it after my catchup

Performer's buddies are trying to avoid his lynch. Thus, wave.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@Vax: you know Wave is hard lurking right? And has a good wagon? And is in the neighbourhood that statistically contains scum?

the hood that also contains performer who is scummy by play and not just a lurker/low content person, and whose wagon definitively resulted in a sudden scramble to create a counterwagon....?

what the hell is wrong with people??? this is basic mafia 101. like, helloooooo?????

[EspeciallyTheLies]

People are way too distracted by how shiny and lynchbaity Performer is.

Agree w this

This is garbage.

He's not lynch bait. I literally proved that. It's like no one is even bothering to think.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It would be one thing if I had some obscure case that I needed to explain to people, but it's fucking staring you all in the face. I cannot even believe the willful ignorance going on here right now.

I hope they shoot me tonight. I can't even deal with this game.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ETL, how can I be both perfromers buddy and a townread?

Do you not townread me anymore? What changed you mind?

I never said you were his buddy...?

@Vax: you know Wave is hard lurking right? And has a good wagon? And is in the neighbourhood that statistically contains scum?

the hood that also contains performer who is scummy by play and not just a lurker/low content person, and whose wagon definitively resulted in a sudden scramble to create a counterwagon....?

what the hell is wrong with people??? this is basic mafia 101. like, helloooooo?????

HOPKIRK, WHY ARE YOU IGNORING ME?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ETL, how can I be both perfromers buddy and a townread?

Do you not townread me anymore? What changed you mind?

I never said you were his buddy...?

Am I misinterpreting this ?

Spoiler:

Gonna catch up today but first I wanna throw this out there:

Lurker Lynch?

I know people are often against it around these parts but this game seems pretty ripe for it.


I'll see how I feel about it after my catchup

Performer's buddies are trying to avoid his lynch. Thus, wave.

Yes but only because I misinterpreted yours. I thought you were pointing out that wave was a lurker lynch. Which he is.

And it's garbage.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I can buy town Performer based on the effort around the reads lists kind of time.

*pulls my hair out*
DUDE. NO.

EFFORT DOES NOT EQUAL ALIGNMENT.....

The counterwagon you're talking about started with another neighbour member, which doesn't seem bad. Where do you dislike the wagon formation?

Look at the timing. Performer wagon started getting attention, and then suddenly wave is big news..?? gtfoh...

You're just going to take it at face value?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Another nail in the performer coffin is this BS about "yuh yuh I can see that ETL is town"

No townie reacts this way to a push on them, especially if the person pushing is wrong.

ERGO, I'M NOT WRONG. PERFORMER IS SCUM. LYNCH HIM NOW.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

This is infuriating. I feel like everyone is deliberately ignoring common sense.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Dude why would scumperf get hard defended at this point?

WHO?? Who is "hard defending" you? That's what a fucking counterwagon IS.

Why would I move my vote from osuka instead of leaving it there , and just coast?

MAAAAAAAAYBEEEEEE because I called you out on your scummy bullshit vote on osuka??

It's clear from this question that you were hoping that's what you could do without being noticed.

Lucky for town I'm a bit better of a scum hunter than you bargained for.

Lucky for you and your team, most people apparently have their heads up their butts

p-edit: OMFG DUNN PLEASE.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

there was NO counterwagon until performer started getting votes. that's my point.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

there was NO counterwagon until performer started getting votes. that's my point.

No counterwagon to Osuka?
Ok, so where's the scum on the counterwagon to Performer?

performer and texcat for sure. i will look into the other votes more closely. daves isn't great

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ETL - Whats exactly your case on performer?

my iso is pretty all performer case. it's short.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It's a tactical mistake to try to change wagons to a completely new one with such an inactive game, so late in the day.
If everyone was posting every 2-3 hours or faster it would be different. At this rate it will be hard enough to consolidate on a big wagon.

Someone's going to make the value proposition point on a Performer lynch. It is true that we get more information there, but I think the probability of it being scum is lower. For the record, I do see the things that Performer is being scumread for and would be willing to compromise there as needed. I can't tell if the town-motivated things I'm seeing from Performer are really coming from town or just scum making a decent effort at trying to save things.

I don't know vaxkiller well enough to know if the vig claim is likely to be a gambit. It would be pretty dangerous to fakeclaim as scum if there is a vig in the game, and equally dangerous to fakeclaim if there isn't one unless lack of a 2nd kill can be easily explained.

you should invest in a good pair of shears for that massive hedge.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

How do people feel about Dave?

scummy, but not for today - there's not enough time.

perf scum flip implicates texcat and dave strongly.

i have a quiet evening tonight for the first time in ages, so i plan to post my consolidated performer case.

there is absolutely zero reason to not lynch him today. all this talk about "information lynch" or "lurker lynch" is all complete and utter bullshit and none of that matters in the face of

lynching actual scum

.

i am so fucking confident performer is scum here, and i wish people would be more attentive and actually look rather than just skimming the surface and chasing idiotic vanity wagons at the 11th hour.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

TO THE VIG

Proper play in this case is if the lynch flips green, you shoot the competing wagon. If the lynch flips red, you shoot on association or hold your shot if you can.

A good place to look is the voting composition of the competing wagon, especially when it's a strong one with nearly equal votes at their peak. Partners are guaranteed to be there. Look at how the particular votes happened and when - what else was going on in the thread at the time - not just the voter's play as that is obviously going to be deceiving in most cases.

The one thing you DO NOT ever do is announce your target - this gives scum too much information.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

WTF are you talking about, hedge?
My position is as clear as day.
I want Wavemode lynched.

Your position on your partner, Performer.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Laughable.

So, you're telling me you

didn't

waffle back and forth all over this post without giving a definitive position on Performer?

It's a tactical mistake to try to change wagons to a completely new one with such an inactive game, so late in the day.
If everyone was posting every 2-3 hours or faster it would be different. At this rate it will be hard enough to consolidate on a big wagon.

Someone's going to make the value proposition point on a Performer lynch. It is true that we get more information there, but I think the probability of it being scum is lower. For the record, I do see the things that Performer is being scumread for and would be willing to compromise there as needed. I can't tell if the town-motivated things I'm seeing from Performer are really coming from town or just scum making a decent effort at trying to save things.

I don't know vaxkiller well enough to know if the vig claim is likely to be a gambit. It would be pretty dangerous to fakeclaim as scum if there is a vig in the game, and equally dangerous to fakeclaim if there isn't one unless lack of a 2nd kill can be easily explained.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

TO THE VIG

Proper play in this case is if the lynch flips green, you shoot the competing wagon. If the lynch flips red, you shoot on association or hold your shot if you can.

FUCK THAT

You shoot a lurker.

Yeah that's acceptable-ish in the case of a scum flip.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Replace out

Done with mafia.
See my sig.
Adios.
Fuck you very much.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Hi frozen. Vote Performer.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

not to mention the rest of the hood is town.

Ausuka. The IC. The one and only other existing hood member.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I don't really understand why you would make that post.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

What kind of derp is that. That was all the topic last day phase.

Wave is also a neighbor

HE SAID "

THE REST

OF THE HOOD". Are you not reading? He was already talking about Wave.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Also the meaning of "

other

".

[EspeciallyTheLies]

No.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

No.

No what.

Is this the most important thing to be discussing today? Can we talk about your shit play on day 1 ?

That's a bit uncalled for. How is providing my thoughts about the game "shit play"?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

The Wavemode wagon at its peak:

Wavemode (7) -

Ausuka

(998), Hopkirk (999), Davesaz/FA (1014),

Performer

(1051), Texcat (1080), Gamma Emerald (1107), JarJarDrinks (1112)

Hopkirk goes from indicating Wave is null to sheeping Ausuka with no explanation.

Group A: Almost 50, Ousuka, Creature, Pine, Dunn, KK
Group B: Mylo, Gamma, Robster, ETL, Wheme, Scion, JJD
Neutralish. Wouldn’t vote.: Lal, LB/Dave, Flavour Leaf, Ausuka
Need to reread pool: Vax/Arc/Performer/Android/Wave/Texcat/TheRampage

VOTE: wavemode

VOTE: Wavemode

Still think daveslot/FA could be scum but that's a very weak read at this point.

Texcat's vote here is horrible. Preemptively defends the vote and qualifies it by saying they'd rather be voting elsewhere, at a point in the game where compromise votes weren't even close to necessary.

VOTE: wavemode
I am willing to do this. Wave hasn't done anything to make me believe they are town. If we are lynching someone who hasn't done anything, my preference would be for ArcAngel9, but I understand that the neighborhood wants to clean itself up.

Gamma's vote is.. meh. I dunno. It's understandable I guess.

VOTE: performer
we need a real wagon. if people arent down to lynch performer, i'll vote wavemode

lynching either gives a 50% chance of scum, as i see it, because im fairly confident ausuka is town

I mean there's a wagon on you -_-
But I agree we do need other wagons given proximity to day end plus I feel fine with what I've gotten out of today so
VOTE: wavemode

Meh. I dunno how I feel about this. It's pretty null for Jar I think.

VOTE: wavemode

See no reason to vote performer at this stage. He's got that scummy tone which I've mislynched him for in the past so gonna need to see something a little more blatantly anti-town if I'm gonna scumread.

Performer and Android wagons at end of D1.

Performer

(13) (HAMMER @ 1849)-

EspeciallyTheLies

(515), Kublai Khan (957),

Wavemode

(1108), Vaxkiller (1116), Lalendra (1229),

Osuka

(1384), ArcAngel9 (1397), PenguinPower (1774), Dunnstral (1782), Andriod18 (1796), Frozen Angel (1814),Creature (1846),

Performer

(1849)

Andriod18 (10) (L-3) - JarJarDrinks (1410),

Almost50

(1460), Hopkirk (1679),

Ausuka

(1680), Gamma Emerald (1711), Scioness Sajj (1760), Flavor Leaf (1772), Texcat, Myloninja13 (1787), Pine (1835)

I find the Android wagon weird as hell. Somebody mentioned that when it happened, the Perf wagon got pushed through, so I think focusing on the end of the wagon is a good idea. The first vote on Android happened at post 1410, which means this set has a high likelyhood of containing AT LEAST ONE scum and possibly two: {PenguinPower (1774), Dunnstral (1782), Andriod18 (1796), Frozen Angel (1814),Creature (1846)}

I think Penguin, Android, Frozen Angel have the highest probabilities. All of this is pretty moot if Android is town, in which case I'd be looking at Jar for his push on Wave and his push on me right now. I was legit about to give him a pass for the wave stuff until he attacked me for no reason.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

No.

No what.

Is this the most important thing to be discussing today? Can we talk about your shit play on day 1 ?

That's a bit uncalled for. How is providing my thoughts about the game "shit play"?

Lol. You ran down people all day for not realizing how obviously scum performer was. You called people garbage for saying he was lynchbait.

It's shitplay or it's scum.

I never once called anyone garbage? I said that saying he was lynchbait was garbage. He wasn't lynchbait. I showed that he wasn't lynchbait. Excusing it as lynchbait is shit play. I followed my conclusions - that's not "shit play". Being wrong isn't "shit play". Townies are wrong 90% of the time. You need to reevaluate your standards or hop off my dick.

If you think it's scum, go ahead and vote me.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

VOTE: PenguinPower

[EspeciallyTheLies]

This is about where I'm at right now. I need to sort more townreads before anything else.

[TOWN]

Ausuka, Wavemode

[MAYBE TOWN]

Dunnstral, Hopkirk, Jar, Gamma???

[MAYBE SCUM]

Golden Robster

[SCUM]

Penguin, Texcat

[NULL]

--the rest--
Pine, Creature, Khan, Wheme, Lalendra, FA, Android, ArcAngel, Vax, Mylo, Scion, Flavor

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Actually FA should move up to the maybe town spot.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Why is wave town?

why is Golden Robster, Penguin and Texcat scummy?

I'll talk about Wave later - I'm waiting to see some things first.

Golden Robster is scummy by tone and gut. I need to look into others more to see if it's justified. Penguin is scummy by VCA and the fact that the Rampage wagon had several false starts throughout the day but was resisted multiple times which is a good indication that they have help on their side. Rampage was pretty null and being pushed at a point in the game where the other shiny targets were just as viable, so why the resistance? There should have been no reason for that to happen but it did.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Oh texcat is scummy by tone and gut - mostly because the way he argued certain points made me feel like he had an ulterior motive - like there was a hidden agenda going on there. Of the 3, GR is the weakest read, followed by Texcat.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm more concerned with establishing solid townreads early on because that's something I'm good at and the scumreads need to happen very naturally or they land on town and skew everything. My read on Performer yesterday was based solely on the crap he was saying and how he was saying it. It was all very awkward and sounded like he was trying to compensate for something, or hide his true intentions. I was too busy at work to catch everything and I think that really hindered my ability to see other aspects of the game. It's hard for me to do research without some direction first, especially in a game this large. But I was able to catch up and reread some ISOs over the night phase, so I'll be far more active now.

Except for this weekend - It's a holiday weekend and we're going out of town Friday/Saturday.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Ok. That doesn't mean you're not scum

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I thought you didn't catch up, Penguin. Being able to gauge the timing of a wagon and surrounding arguments is a pretty in-depth thing that you can only gain from a true read through.

Or someone in your Mafia PT told you to say that XD

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I thought you didn't catch up, Penguin. Being able to gauge the timing of a wagon and surrounding arguments is a pretty in-depth thing that you can only gain from a true read through.

Or someone in your Mafia PT told you to say that XD

Or I ISO'd the mod and saw the vote history. Which takes all of a few minutes to do.

That doesn't explain your comment about "that's when the neighborhood stuff happened". The mod's ISO doesn't give you that.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

If you're claiming that you made that comment based on ISOing the mod to look at Rampage, then my assessment of your lie about catching up stands.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

PROOF THAT PENGUIN IS A LIAR.

Rampage was never a wagon...3 votes at most, and it disappeared when the neighborhood stuff happened.

I thought you didn't catch up, Penguin. Being able to gauge the timing of a wagon and surrounding arguments is a pretty in-depth thing that you can only gain from a true read through.

Or someone in your Mafia PT told you to say that XD

Or I ISO'd the mod and saw the vote history. Which takes all of a few minutes to do.

That doesn't explain your comment about "that's when the neighborhood stuff happened". The mod's ISO doesn't give you that.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Um...the wagons formed on wave and performer? That's how I can tell it went away when the neighborhood stuff happened.

Nope. The VCs don't show that and you wouldn't get that from mod ISO without having read the game. You're scum.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Jar, that's a huge misrepresentation of my case on performer which i did post. unfortunately you're wrong and i'd probably vote you for the horrible push but i think you actually believe it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Townies are wrong 90% of the time.

Also, speak for yourself. I'm pretty sure I've lynched more scum than town on this site.

my winrate already does. ask anyone here who knows me or knows of me. that's about it for tooting my own horn.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Spoiler: case on performer

Hey everyone!

Ok so I've been skimming up to pg 7 and I am just dying laughing at some of these funny posts. I mean, man. Smokebomb throwing, claiming bp pgo compulsive commuter...one of the funniest games I've seen in awhile.

On a serious note, I don't like asuka mentioning a traitor. I hosted an offsite game where I had a mafia traitor. It really looks like signaling of some sort , what she did. And that's not a good thing for town, if there's a traitor.

Personally I think there exists 4-6 scum in this 25 pool if I were to go by the 20% guideline.

The mentioning of creature lurking on d1 , is true from what I recall. He's the only one I played with in a large normal , years ago. Interestingly he was town that game. Unless it's one of my idols, I don't believe giving someone a free pass just because it's how they play, is a wise idea.

Anyway, have to continue my catchup. I have a big bunch of null right now.

Reading this as scummy

me too

Hey everyone!

Ok so I've been skimming up to pg 7 and I am just dying laughing at some of these funny posts. I mean, man. Smokebomb throwing, claiming bp pgo compulsive commuter...one of the funniest games I've seen in awhile.

On a serious note, I don't like asuka mentioning a traitor. I hosted an offsite game where I had a mafia traitor. It really looks like signaling of some sort , what she did. And that's not a good thing for town, if there's a traitor.

Personally I think there exists 4-6 scum in this 25 pool if I were to go by the 20% guideline.

The mentioning of creature lurking on d1 , is true from what I recall. He's the only one I played with in a large normal , years ago. Interestingly he was town that game. Unless it's one of my idols, I don't believe giving someone a free pass just because it's how they play, is a wise idea.

Anyway, have to continue my catchup. I have a big bunch of null right now.

Reading this as scummy

me too

This metoo post is not good. ETL, can you tell us anything about why you think the post was scummy?

he said exactly what i was thinking. saying "me too" sums that up pretty well imo. and i think it's scum because it sounds fake as hell and all his posts are LAMIST-y nonsense. "hur hur yah we don't wanna do anything SCUMMY now would we?" <<< that's how all his posts come off. trying waaaaay too hard to be "nonchalant" and to look town without actually being town, not to mention every single "observation" he's made thus far has just been regurgitating facts rather than actual opinions.

he's scum. kill it with fire.

VOTE: performer

623 from performer looks like he went looking for reasons to join the biggest wagon

Also, your sentence about me sorting the neighborhood being good if wave flips scum, needs to be corrected to me sorting the hood AND other people being good regardless of wave flipping scum. Anyway…. Lol.

EW.

Please lynch this scumbag.

performer town game here
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=76171

he's waaaay more comfortable and less awkward and try hard.

@Vax: you know Wave is hard lurking right? And has a good wagon? And is in the neighbourhood that statistically contains scum?

the hood that also contains performer who is scummy by play and not just a lurker/low content person, and whose wagon definitively resulted in a sudden scramble to create a counterwagon....?

^ reinforced the existing read.

I can buy town Performer based on the effort around the reads lists kind of time.

*pulls my hair out*
DUDE. NO.

EFFORT DOES NOT EQUAL ALIGNMENT.....

The counterwagon you're talking about started with another neighbour member, which doesn't seem bad. Where do you dislike the wagon formation?

Look at the timing. Performer wagon started getting attention, and then suddenly wave is big news..?? gtfoh...

You're just going to take it at face value?

^ reinforced existing read

Another nail in the performer coffin is this BS about "yuh yuh I can see that ETL is town"

there was NO counterwagon until performer started getting votes. that's my point.

^ reinforced existing read

just because i didn't make it all nice and pretty in a single post with bullet points doesn't make it any less a case. to say that i didn't post anything about why i was scumreading him is a flat out lie. i thought it was pretty obvious why i was scumreading him.

you're taking advantage of the fact that i was mostly mobile all of day one and unable to quote, edit and format my posts properly, which isn't really fair. if you're going to scumread me for pushing a scumread on DAY ONE and being wrong, at least show what makes you think it had scum motivation.

(hint: there isn't any because I'm town)

[EspeciallyTheLies]

did vax say who he targeted N1?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

what... he didn't even post yet. why are people saying he claimed to have been blocked??

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Vaxkiller, where's your vig shot?

like, why is this assuming the a50 kill was the scum kill and not vax's shot? a50 wasn't really a townread and seems a weird nk choice to me. this moves dunn down quite a bit in my reads tbh.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Are you saying that the wagon on Android was town driven?

This is the only thing that's a weird assumption for me because I don't even understand the motivation to lynch android over performer yesterday BUT Pine makes an excellent point in that the performer and android wagons existed already and only when it started to look like android might trump performer for the lynch did the performer wagon gain a lot of momentum suddenly. that's a thing that happened.

now as far as making the conclusion that it makes android scum... i dont know. it's a tough call there because then you would absolutely have to assume that it WAS town driven, which generally doesn't happen with lurker lynches. so... maybe they were both town?

also if we assume the nk was scum shot and not vig shot, then i'd be more convinced that maybe android actually is scum because i'd be thinking that's where he'd shoot. he needs to come in and tell us what happened.

i think it's more likely a50 is the vig shot and the nk was probably on the a protected townie... like, oh i dunno, the IC.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

read all that. read still looks contrived. And it still all likes a scumread based on tone.

as for it not being fair cuz ur mobile, I dont think it's fair to ask to give u a break based on something that we only have your word for

i'm not asking you to give me a break, i'm asking you to think a little more deeply about things and consider all aspects of the situation. i'm not going to argue with you about facts - i know why i was scumreading him and why i pushed for his lynch so strongly yesterday - he was my strongest scumread by far. whether you believe it or not is up to you. i think your depiction of my case is disingenuous. and persecuting me for scumreading people based on tone isn't a reason to scumread anyone - that is literally how i play. i'm a gut-reader. you need to separate playstyle from motivation.

i'll be confirmed town in time anyway so *shrug* you should just assume i'm town for today and help me fix my reads.

p-edit: well yeah, i was sure i was right. i wasn't. i'm a dummy. what more do you want from me? i'm doing my best.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Are you saying that the wagon on Android was town driven?

This is the only thing that's a weird assumption for me because I don't even understand the motivation to lynch android over performer yesterday BUT Pine makes an excellent point in that the performer and android wagons existed already and only when it started to look like android might trump performer for the lynch did the performer wagon gain a lot of momentum suddenly. that's a thing that happened.

now as far as making the conclusion that it makes android scum... i dont know. it's a tough call there because then you would absolutely have to assume that it WAS town driven, which generally doesn't happen with lurker lynches. so... maybe they were both town?

also if we assume the nk was scum shot and not vig shot, then i'd be more convinced that maybe android actually is scum because i'd be thinking that's where he'd shoot. he needs to come in and tell us what happened.

i think it's more likely a50 is the vig shot and the nk was probably on the a protected townie... like, oh i dunno, the IC.

no android wagon was non existing. it had 2 reason-less votes. It just became something out of nowhere there - by towny people. But then people just jumped on it with no reason.

I don't get the logic behind night kill and that wagon relation

my thinking was just that if a50 is actually the scum kill, then that means, assuming vax is telling the truth, that he was blocked by scum. well why would they do that unless they feared where he would shoot? if android was town, then why wouldn't they just let him shoot a townie and get two kills in one night? (i'm assuming here that vax would have shot the counterwagon.) but if android is scum, then there is reason to block him.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

of course there's the possibility that both vax and scum shot the same target but i really dont see scum shooting a50 here. he was far from a universal townread. there's two things here where shooting a50 makes sense - 1) they thought he was a PR or 2) one of the universal townreads is actually scum, even besides the IC who was probably protected.

p-edit: no he didn't, i'm just thinking out loud to try to understand why or why not android could be scum. at the moment i'm conflicted on it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

like, if i were scum facing a vig claim, i'd be trying to predict where he would shoot and i'd be thinking he would shoot the counterwagon. if that counterwagon was town, i'd let him go and/or shoot him. if the counterwagon was on a buddy, i'd block the shit out of him. that's where this assumption is coming from - trying to guess the scum motivations here, not necessarily vax's.

at this point there's no reason to continue speculating until vax tells us what he did.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i thought vax implied he'd shoot wave.

i think he did say that. which is why i'm conflicted on the android wagon. if a50 was actually the scum shot, why? does it make sense to you? that scum would shoot a50 over the IC or gamma or anyone who was more widely townread?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

like, if i were scum facing a vig claim, i'd be trying to predict where he would shoot and i'd be thinking he would shoot the counterwagon. if that counterwagon was town, i'd let him go and/or shoot him.

not necessarily. If the counterwagon is still alive then he's still a viable lynch the next day.

you're saying as far as what vax might be thinking? or are you saying that scum would be thinking to reserve him for today if he was town?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

yeah. i hope he shows up soon.

what do you think of penguin?

p-edit: ah yeah ok that makes sense too.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

lalendras post sounds like scum mad about wasting a block or something and gamma pressuring vax to claim with like two votes on him is gross.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

prod received. i'm vla every weekend. i'll be able to read and catch up later today after work.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@Mod: Please replace me. I apologize; I just don't have the time for this right now. Work is a bit too busy.