NY 213 - Game Over!

[Lalendra]

oh hi

[Lalendra]

12. Lalendra+ (Town. Reminder: Mathdino's not scum either)

Wait, what? Math isn't in this game right?

[Lalendra]

Either way, I get flipped and they won't ever guess I named the whole of my scum team for real

Wait...is that literally a scumclaim

[Lalendra]

@Hopkirk:
How to sort a Creature 101 - The maual: Town!Creature posts. Scum!Creature doesn't. It's as simple as that.

It's not though, because I have fallen victim to this logic before and he was just busy town.

[Lalendra]

5? (physical education?) presentations to do

How does one do a presentation in phys ed

[Lalendra]

12. Lalendra+ (Town. Reminder: Mathdino's not scum either)

Wait, what? Math isn't in this game right?

Nope, but he might be later on. You never know who's going to replace out and who's going to get in their place.

But seriously, that was a poor joke attempt in reference to our last game together. Nothing more.

Gotcha. That's fair, Math does have the tendency to just pop up places. He's like a creepy Santa - always watching and brings you presents, but only if you're town.

[Lalendra]

Either way, I get flipped and they won't ever guess I named the whole of my scum team for real

Wait...is that literally a scumclaim

Yes. I slipped and posted in the wrong PT. Tell no one though. Let's keep it between the two of us. (And then I won't kill you bc it makes me look bad. Or maybe I do and WIFOM myself out of it. Or maybe I don't and WIFOM the WIFOM... or.. oh well, you get the drill).

it's page 9 and you're making me want to pluck out my eyes. stop it.

[Lalendra]

VOTE: Almost50 until I figure out what the hell you're doing

[Lalendra]

This is very unlike your tone in other games we've played and I'm not sure if you're just trying something new or if you're really as scummy as you're making yourself sound, and that's almost impossible to believe but as of yet I have no other explanation

[Lalendra]

Definitely thought I posted yesterday. I'll catch up and make a meaningful post tonight.

[Lalendra]

How my mind works
-Start of d1 is to interact with people and form reads on them.
-I want to interact with Lalandra but nobody else does. No need to interact with Edo as there's a wagon which is a subsitute.
-Vote Lalandra.

1) You say that I am one of the bad votes on the A50 wagon but never explained why, unless I missed it - can you do so now? Not sure why mine is different than the others.
2) I don't remember anyone saying they don't want to interact with me, but I'm here so interact away.

[Lalendra]

So you know he usually doesn't do anything day 1, but can easily be spotted as scum if he continues his lurk on later days?

My last unfinished game w creature was a while ago but all I recall is not thinking his play is anything special.

Which is why I think it's shady that so many people are clamoring to keep votes off him. Like I'm not saying u people should be voting him but he's done nothing in this game to warrant a defense from anybody.

I'm not defending him per se, but I played a game with him recently where people were convinced he was scum because he doesn't like playing scum and therefore tends to lurk and not be active when he rolls scum. Unfortunately we were wrong, and he was just busy town. Hence why I'm reluctant to follow that same path again. I'll have to see more of what he posts when he does post, and form my opinion from there.

[Lalendra]

Gut, tone, my ouija board.

Why did I never think of that
*pulls out tarot deck*

[Lalendra]

17. Andriod18+ (Scum. Forgetting to post "here" = already posting in the Scum PT)

If you were serious on this, we're on the same page.

I can see that but I read it more as forgetting that the mod required us to post in pre-game in addition to confirming privately, which is normally all that's required.

[Lalendra]

Nah, the right formula is X-1/4:

9-1/4=2

Had to read this like 3x because I kept going "NO 9-1/4 IS 8 3/4"
PEMDAS, man.

[Lalendra]

wtf page 6 is like trying to guess how many scum there are? What's the point?

I think it can be helpful when trying to determine associatives, do you not agree?
I guess it could also be someone going "hey look I'm not scum because I'm trying to figure out how many there are and if I was scum I'd already know!!!"

[Lalendra]

i;m townleaning osuka for consistent tone

Scum can be consistent tonally too.

[Lalendra]

<unvote>
Starting to feel much better about A50 now that he's posted more.

[Lalendra]

aksjd;flaksjdf
<unvote></unvote>

[Lalendra]

jfc I give up
UNVOTE: UNVOTE: UNVOTE:

[Lalendra]

It feels like you voted your scum buddy for some distancing then it backfired, now hes yelling at you in scumchat.

I'm old and out of practice, but is day-scumchat a common thing?

Mmmm, this feels fake.

[Lalendra]

What do you think of lalendra unvoting you and not knowing why?

I said why I was though?

[Lalendra]

This is not a content heavy catch up.

Okay welp, I responded to the things I wanted to, so it is what it is

[Lalendra]

How my mind works
-Start of d1 is to interact with people and form reads on them.
-I want to interact with Lalandra but nobody else does. No need to interact with Edo as there's a wagon which is a subsitute.
-Vote Lalandra.

1) You say that I am one of the bad votes on the A50 wagon but never explained why, unless I missed it - can you do so now? Not sure why mine is different than the others.
2) I don't remember anyone saying they don't want to interact with me, but I'm here so interact away.

Ok, I did semi cover it in 276 like I thought.
You were 'engagin' with A50 in a way that doesn't look useful in helping you sort him at the expense of sorting other people.7

-You weren't calling out specifics or anything, it was playstyle. Nothing hard there, nothing he can really respond to beyond 'I play like this sometimes'.
-If you can't work out what he's doing, the vote won't necesarily help you read him. Despite this, you vote him but don't really interacts with other people. Gives impression you're less interesting in forming wider reads.
-As above, it isn't obvious why A50 is your top/only priority to sort.
So interactions outside+with A50 both make it feel different.

-Briefly- overfocused on Almost50 without obvious town motivation. Reads as alternative to giving content.

There wasn't much to go on at that point. I voted A50 because I didn't like his early posts. Then I did, so I unvoted him. I'm not going to try to generate content where there is none, I respond to things as I see fit. That's how I play.

[Lalendra]

I was ready to vote Osuka, but I really liked his catch-up. It's been a while since I've played a game this large and while I'm still trying to sort the people who have posted, it feels like we have a LOT of people who aren't doing enough for me to read them. Whether that's intentional or not is hard to say at this stage.

[Lalendra]

What part of his catch up did you like?

He didn't strike me as overly defensive. Rather than just focusing on convincing people not to vote him, he focused on gamesolving and scumhunting. That strikes me as town because he cares more about solving the game, and leaving clues for the rest of his team in the event that he is lynched, then he does about convincing people not to lynch him.

[Lalendra]

*than. Gd speech to text.

[Lalendra]

I could get behind a JJD Lynch. Convince me on rampage though? I'm not seeing it.

[Lalendra]

@Scion: why is Lalandra in your towns.

she talked about someone (creature?) with somebody and it was towny

[Lalendra]

No, I think his buddies are still trying to find a wagon that will get some traction.

that's nonsense in a game this large at this point in the day.

I'm inclined to agree, while it's not impossible it's far more likely that we are just early into day one and nobody wants to rush a Lynch at this stage.

[Lalendra]

Self meta comment, i like talking about myself. Literally look at any random game of mine, and you’ll get loads of self meta.

This is a fact, and he does it as both alignments.

[Lalendra]

Now Performer is in a spot where I’ve done exactly what they were implying I should do, however it was targeted at him.

I’m curious to see how Performer responds to me before I take much further action (I’ll probably delve Performer more in a bit)

If he comes at me, he’s strictly attacking for just analyzing one of my posts. I’m very aware that you could be town, but am leaning towards ScumPerf yet and seeing projection in your posts. Can I see you posting like this as town? Sure, but it’s enough that I’m going to delve further into it until I can figure out what I need or see something else worth putting more time into.

So Performer...how will you respond?

Why did you post this? Now he's self-conscious about the whole thing and will be checking himself.

ebwop: *if he's scum he will be

oof

Ok so I'm not the only one who went "hmm" when I read that. Not sure if we're reading too much into it though.

[Lalendra]

why not go on a rampage

I see what you did there

[Lalendra]

isn't it normal to be scumread?

Lol only if you're scum, or lynchbaity because of play style. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's normal.

[Lalendra]

I mean, when I do eventually show up to the party, y’all gonna wish I’d be less active, let’s be honest.

Y’all know how I am. This is a blessing in disguise.

I have no idea who you are

I do and I'm inclined to agree

[Lalendra]

Rampage's iso is hilariously ironic.

194- Attacks Creature for popping in and saying why he's been inactive. Rampage thinks town Creature would give some thoughts rather than just say he has a busy schedule.
509- (three days later)- Rampage pops in and says why he's been inactive. Rampage has a busy schedule but doesn't give any thoughts.
@Rampage: In hindsight, do you think the tell you had is legitimately something that applies to scum?

681 is very meh. The only thing that stood out being the easiest vote/lynch. Really, the second half of 681 applies to 681.

If you find rampages ISO so odd, why are you voting wave?

[Lalendra]

@Gamma: see 1004 for A/B.
Why does wave not being bought up before matter?

Because it feels strange as heck that he just pops up as the hot topic

Same, I don't understand why suddenly everyone is on him when he hasn't posted and wasn't talked about before.

[Lalendra]

I want to know what changed to make wavemode scum in that 24 hours and why claim neighbor with 6 days to go before deadline instead of the first RL day of play.

I think purple girl is right, I think it's because a Performer counterwagon is needed.

Intent to vote Performer but I'm finishing my catchup first.

[Lalendra]

I want to know what changed to make wavemode scum in that 24 hours and why claim neighbor with 6 days to go before deadline instead of the first RL day of play.

I think purple girl is right, I think it's because a Performer counterwagon is needed.

Intent to vote Performer but I'm finishing my catchup first.

[Lalendra]

Not sure why that posted twice.

[Lalendra]

Yep still good

VOTE: Performer[/unvote]

[Lalendra]

jfc what is wrong with me

VOTE: Performer

[Lalendra]

Lal shows up, pops a naked vote , super opportunistic.

Would you say the same if I had voted for Wavemode, instead of tying up your wagon with his? Sounds OMGUS to me.

[Lalendra]

Nope, he was on a vanity wagon all day until Wavemode wagon popped up then it's "we need wagons" and voting for not even the largest wagon

Gamma can be scum

That's a really good point that I hadn't considered. So you think Gamma and Wave are scum together? If so who is with them?

[Lalendra]

it doesn't matter whether you SR wave or not; lynching in the hood isn't beneficial for town regardless of whether one player has a large boner for his lynch

Can you explain your logic here? If we know that the hood can be of mixed alignments then it's perfectly reasonable to lynch within the hood if we SR one of the players therein. I'm not sure what we would stand to gain by waiting to vote someone we're reasonably certain is scum.

[Lalendra]

Why do people claim @L-11????

[Lalendra]

@ausuka what in the? What are you talking about??

I'm thinking about Gamma. Maybe Texcat.

I don't see how they're scum. Why?


^pedit: say WHAT! Yes she IS town! Hell yeah!!!!!!!!!!!

This sounds so fake

^^^

[Lalendra]

VOTE: texcat

I don't like their content

We have one day left and town is split between two wagons. There is NO point in starting a new wagon now and if you really hope to have this take off (i.e., you strongly feel that neither of the leading wagons is scum and therefore don't want to vote either) then you need to supply some more convincing points.

[Lalendra]

the more theories come out for scum!wavemode the more i realize how bad of a player people think i am

Yeah honestly, that's part of why I'm having a hard time buying scum!wave, I think you'd be doing better than this if you were scum.

[Lalendra]

Happy birthday, 'Murica.
I'll do a full catch up tomorrow morning since it's the 4th, I'm unsober, and nothing that happened last in-game night was what I expected.

[Lalendra]

Town

: Ausuka (conf town) (3p hood)

Leaning Town

: KK, Gamma, ETL, FA
------- (town block)

Semi-leaning Town

: Hopkirk, Dunstrall, Pine
------- (not willing to lynch above)

Kind of town

: Android, Wavemode (3p hood), Lalendra

Neutral/Undecided

: Mylon (UD), PP (UD)

Meh

: JJD, FL, Texcat, AA9, Whemestar

Leaning Scum

: Vax*, Creature, Scioness

Scum

:

Sorry if you already explained and I missed it but why is there an asterisk on Vax?

[Lalendra]

Hey, Im not a vig. I claimed that yesterday to stop people pilling on the a stupid wagon and leading us to a no lynch. On top of that I was hoping I would be a scum target. Since I wasnt im assuming alot of my reads are wrong. I kinda like golden robs reactions at the start of the day, but he has a way to go for getting a town read.

Especially the lies doesnt look great today tho, who wasnt even on my radar yesterday.

[Lalendra]

That whether ur town or scum, u've played terrible this game.

I don't like ad hominem attacks but I also really, REALLY hate it when town lies about PR's. Because all you've done is call out the fact that there may or may not be a PR that scum may or may not have been thinking about before, did it aggressively, wasted a potential night action by another PR who may have tried to protect you etc. Although, I'm guessing we don't have a vig because if we did, despite your "NOONECOUNTERCLAIMME" flailing, I would think they would have CC'd you.

VOTE: Vaxkiller

[Lalendra]

KK is now way lower on my list cuz flav leaf v KK looks like obvious scum theater.

Lol, look at this attempt at distancing from their partner, KK.

huh? thats what I'm saying about you and KK. Did u really just "I know you are but what am I? my post?

He's been saying you and KK were scumbuddies for 2 pages, is this an intentional misrep or are you just not reading his posts?

[Lalendra]

Let’s lynch KK, then JJ. Calling your bluff here.

nah cuz i could be wrong. Not gonna lynch on an association read.

[Lalendra]

Shamelessly sheeping powertown, choo choo

VOTE: JarJarDrinks

[Lalendra]

Mylo slipped down to scumlean on my list with that vote on PP. I don't see any reason for it at all, and it seemed like he was opportunistically picking on someone that he knew was not around when he was pressured to throw down a vote.

[Lalendra]

Those are good points. I'm not sure what to make of the language and attitude in KK's posts - as you said, it is his town meta, but would be easy to fake - but the fact that KK ignored the Android wagon is very troubling to me.

As a matter of fact, I also would like to see more from Android.

VOTE: Andriod18

[Lalendra]

Mylo slipped down to scumlean on my list with that vote on PP. I don't see any reason for it at all, and

it seemed like he was opportunistically picking on someone that he knew was not around when he was pressured to throw down a vote.

talk to me why you believe this?

Because of the progression. Mylo doesn't mention PP anywhere in his ISO and then:

Responding to my prod. I'm busy tonight and tomorrow morning, but I'll be back tomorrow afternoon.

Are you going to vote for anyone?

I guess I could VOTE: PP because OMGUS and they haven't really done anything to town read them on.

He hadn't mentioned Mylo since his vote for him in 1947 - 470 posts earlier. Mylo dropped a vote there when asked for a vote and came up with some weak reasoning, didn't even really try to back it up. So, it looked like he was opportunistically throwing a vote on someone who had literally just said they wouldn't be around to defend themselves and using OMGUS and vague "I don't see any reason for them to be town so they must be scum" as an excuse.

[Lalendra]

Those are good points. I'm not sure what to make of the language and attitude in KK's posts - as you said, it is his town meta, but would be easy to fake - but the fact that KK ignored the Android wagon is very troubling to me.

As a matter of fact, I also would like to see more from Android.

VOTE: Andriod18

This would imply you scumread KK as my partner yes? Let's change that
VOTE: Kublai Khan

Are you saying one vote should be enough to make me go "Oh wow, they're definitely not scumbuddies because Android would NEVER bus, I guess he's locktown now!"

[Lalendra]

Those are good points. I'm not sure what to make of the language and attitude in KK's posts - as you said, it is his town meta, but would be easy to fake - but the fact that KK ignored the Android wagon is very troubling to me.

As a matter of fact, I also would like to see more from Android.

VOTE: Andriod18

Why android specifically? Also haven't you also ignored the android wagon until this post?

Correct. Hence why I said I'd like to see more, and threw down a reaction vote. And look, I got a reaction. Weird.

[Lalendra]

Those are good points. I'm not sure what to make of the language and attitude in KK's posts - as you said, it is his town meta, but would be easy to fake - but the fact that KK ignored the Android wagon is very troubling to me.

As a matter of fact, I also would like to see more from Android.

VOTE: Andriod18

This would imply you scumread KK as my partner yes? Let's change that
VOTE: Kublai Khan

Are you saying one vote should be enough to make me go "Oh wow, they're definitely not scumbuddies because Android would NEVER bus, I guess he's locktown now!"

Yeah if anything I read this as the opposite. Like android wants you to think he's buddies w/ KK.

Wait, how? He literally said "You think KK is my partner? Let's change that" and then votes. I don't see how that could be construed the way you're reading it.

[Lalendra]

I'm just looking for some sort of evidence from either of you that this wasn't just scum distancing

This is where I am at on the GROB/FL mason claim as well. As soon as I saw Rob's confirmation of his mason role with FL I thought, how do we know they are legit masons and not just scumbuddies gambling on there not being any real masons to CC them?

[Lalendra]

To be clear, I don't currently SR either of them. But I don't want to promote them to locktown status until I can resolve that "what if" to my own satisfaction. Obviously if one of them flips mason, the other is automatically cleared.

[Lalendra]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

Wait, I'm so confused. So Rob isn't really a mason, he claimed mason with FL just to call FL's bluff, and then FL didn't react? hmm. This changes things.

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[Lalendra]

UNVOTE:
I would like to hear from the mason partner this dayphase.

[Lalendra]

UNVOTE:
I would like to hear from the mason partner this dayphase.

Uhh then why unvote?

Because I don't think he's scum? Nor do I believe that being at L-7 is going to pressure the mason partner into claiming.

[Lalendra]

It is blatant role fishing, and if you’re town who “needs a second mason to claim” that’s just bad. It’s a fucking mason claim. It’ll come out.

Is it not better to have confirmed masons so that we can narrow the lynch pool by knowing who is definitely town? I understand that also means that scum will know who the masons are, but scum already know who is town so what's the difference?

[Lalendra]

Mylo has specifically chosen PP because he knew PP wouldn't be able to defend themselves against opportunistic vote with no reasoning? Is that what you are saying here?

Yes.

[Lalendra]

Shamelessly sheeping powertown, choo choo

VOTE: JarJarDrinks

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

Wait, I'm so confused. So Rob isn't really a mason, he claimed mason with FL just to call FL's bluff, and then FL didn't react? hmm. This changes things.

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

Powertown in the first post refers to flavorleaf. I don't really get how Rob fakeclaiming would change her read on FL from powertown to scum.

FL sounded powertown. Then I didn't like how he didn't react to Rob's fake claim, because it seemed to me that if he was really a mason, he would have had a reaction. Then I decided he probably was really a mason because he explained that he was just making that post as he was heading into work and didn't have the chance to react, so I unvoted.

FFS, I really don't understand why people have such a hard time following my reasoning in EVERY GODDAMN GAME

[Lalendra]

VOTE: PenguinPower

[Lalendra]

Wow this last sentence looks like the fakest outrage in the history of outrages.

You just post an unvote without saying a damn thing about why and complain that people aren't following your reasoning?

I really couldn't care less if you think it's fake, and yeah, when I've already explained myself multiple times it's getting a little old.

[Lalendra]

Is it not better to have confirmed masons so that we can narrow the lynch pool by knowing who is definitely town? I understand that also means that scum will know who the masons are, but scum already know who is town so what's the difference?

So do you believe it's correct play for all masons and ICs to claim immediately on day 1?

I think if we already have one mason claimed, there's little point in waiting for the other to claim, and since you are of the same mind, I'm not sure why you're arguing with me on this.

[Lalendra]

Also the Hopkirk claim was underwhelming, I'm glad he claimed but I was already townreading him so I was hoping it would be some other slot that would give me more info. I guess at least now I don't have to worry about wavering on that slot later.

[Lalendra]

Wow this last sentence looks like the fakest outrage in the history of outrages.

You just post an unvote without saying a damn thing about why and complain that people aren't following your reasoning?

I really couldn't care less if you think it's fake, and yeah, when

I've already explained myself multiple times

it's getting a little old.

links?

I explained my reasoning in both the original posts, and my responses to your questions. I'm not going to waste my time quoting my own ISO, go back and read it if there's something you don't get.

[Lalendra]

Lalendra, I didn’t have a single post in between. You just jumped from one point to another. It’s not that there wasn’t a reaction, i just wasn’t around

And you not being around is why I changed my SR on you.

[Lalendra]

Also the Hopkirk claim was underwhelming, I'm glad he claimed but I was already townreading him so I was hoping it would be some other slot that would give me more info. I guess at least now I don't have to worry about wavering on that slot later.

Yet you all forced the second mason to claim. There was literally no reason for it.

It would have EASILY been confirmed in a day or two. Never do that again.

We have yet to see whether it's a good or bad thing for town.

[Lalendra]

confirmed conf town

[Lalendra]

I was already conf town before. Now I’m confirmed conf town.

I...what

[Lalendra]

town: flavor/hopkirk, kk, jarjar, etl (from d1, needs updating).
town???: mylo13, gamma, golden robster, penguinpower,
null: and everybody i forgot about
scum???: texcat, lalendra? (i can't tell how much of it it's peculiar posting style and how much is weird motions), andriod, wave (not really in lynchable pile, but doesn't fit anywhere else).

there is no 'scum' because this is based on pages 100-116 +what i remember thinking of slots from d1. i'd put andriod in scums since nobody is willing to explain their townread on it but it will do just fine in

VOTE: andriod18

Wait. So you don't have any scumreads, and your readslist is admittedly missing half the players, so you're arbitrarily deciding android is scum because other people TR him and haven't explained it well enough? That's...odd, at best.

[Lalendra]

VOTE: Whemestar

[Lalendra]

nah fake hammer Gambit too WIFOMy. disregard

How was this a fake hammer? He was at L-1 before your vote I thought.

[Lalendra]

nah fake hammer Gambit too WIFOMy. disregard

How was this a fake hammer? He was at L-1 before your vote I thought.

lalendra still managed to generate wifom from this lmao

i'm almost, impressed.

I can generate wifom from literally anything, it's why I never have confident reads

[Lalendra]

VOTE: TehBrawlGuy

Jumped onto the Wheme wagon late
Unvoted when he got to L-2
Was one of FL's main scumreads if Wheme flipped scum
Didn't finally re-vote until multiple people pressured him to do so

[Lalendra]

I felt like he was trying to play up how uninvested he was in the game, his constant "oh I didn't realize that haha guess I'm not paying attention" didn't seem genuine. Seemed more like scum who knew exactly who everyone was and was trying to fake ignorance. Also, FL scumread him, and he was my top townread after the mason claim was confirmed by Hopkirk.

[Lalendra]

I'm not going to waste my time defending myself against the wagon that's forming, other than to say I'm town. I prefer to spend my time trying to find the actual scum. But I'll answer any questions people have.

[Lalendra]

I felt like he was trying to play up how uninvested he was in the game, his constant "oh I didn't realize that haha guess I'm not paying attention" didn't seem genuine. Seemed more like scum who knew exactly who everyone was and was trying to fake ignorance. Also,

FL scumread him, and he was my top townread after the mason claim was confirmed by Hopkirk.

Well of course he's your top townread, he was confirmed mason. Are you saying he's over Hopkirk, despite scum masons not being possible? Like the specification makes me go wtf.

I...what? No. You're reading way too much into it. All I'm saying is that the fact that FL, who was conftown, was scumreading Wheme was a factor in my decision to vote Wheme.

[Lalendra]

I'm not going to waste my time defending myself against the wagon that's forming, other than to say I'm town. I prefer to spend my time trying to find the actual scum.

find actual scum yet?

Please see my post in which I vote TBG and list out my reasons for doing so.

I seriously can't believe that everyone isn't jumping on him after what happened late yesterday and the FL nightkill, it seemed so obvious to me when I was reading. I will need an extremely compelling reason to change my vote today.

[Lalendra]

Are there only two scum? Because it seems to me I have one more to find.

[Lalendra]

Are there only two scum? Because it seems to me I have one more to find.

that was my point. you said were too busy looking for scum to defend yourself/. Wondering when the scumhunting was gonna start?

Do you have an actual question or are you just going to nitpick me to death?

[Lalendra]

I'm 99 percent sure flavor called out two scum members at least. If that's true I'd be willing to bet on lalendra the most out of his call outs.

I was starting to think you could actually read me tchill

[Lalendra]

I'm not going to waste my time defending myself against the wagon that's forming, other than to say I'm town. I prefer to spend my time trying to find the actual scum. But I'll answer any questions people have.

Just quoting this.
So why is TBG scum for you, outside of last minute wagon related reasoning? Was he not a scumread before then? Who was?

I didn't have a strong scumread on him prior to the late-day wagon waffling, no. He was null before that. I was waffling on most of the playerbase honestly, this game has been difficult to read for me. But the fact that I independently thought "my god, this behavior from TBG is so obviously scummy", combined with FL also seeing it that way, combined with the fact that FL was nightkilled (likely for having correct scumreads, as others pointed out), makes me really think that TBG is scum. I was 100% sure at the end of the day, now I'm back to being unsure because others don't seem to see his behavior as obviously scummy as I felt it was.

[Lalendra]

Are there only two scum? Because it seems to me I have one more to find.

that was my point. you said were too busy looking for scum to defend yourself/. Wondering when the scumhunting was gonna start?

Wait Lalendra you seriously expect only 4 scum?

I indicated in that post that I expect 3 (Wheme confirmed, TBG suspected, one more to find). Do you think there are more than 4?

[Lalendra]

I guess it's possible that Pine is the third and he's lurking out because we caught the scumteam. I don't know how likely that is though, I'm not familiar with his meta.

[Lalendra]

lalendra why do you think there are 4 scum?

I already said I don't.

[Lalendra]

FL was killed because he was a mason.
His scumreads are probably good. Although the two he stated before dying most heavily were you and TBG, so maybe you killed him because of those reads.

If he was killed because he was a mason, why would scum pick him over you unless it was because his reads were accurate?

[Lalendra]

-his reads were accurate (although we agreed on most of them)
-you were one of his top (2, maybe 3) scumreads.

I feel like there's a problem with this that you aren't seeing.
Scum probably need to consider a bodyguard in their killpick too.

I am seeing the problem - that you think I'm scum because I was one of his scumreads before he died.
The problem YOU aren't seeing is that I'm town. I think his read on TBG was accurate, hence my vote there.

[Lalendra]

I'm 99 percent sure flavor called out two scum members at least. If that's true I'd be willing to bet on lalendra the most out of his call outs.

I was starting to think you could actually read me tchill

thats the point. not only does flavor and hopkirk SR you but I do as well.

*shrug*
It is what it is. You're all wrong together.

[Lalendra]

Are there only two scum? Because it seems to me I have one more to find.

that was my point. you said were too busy looking for scum to defend yourself/. Wondering when the scumhunting was gonna start?

Wait Lalendra you seriously expect only 4 scum?

I indicated in that post that I expect 3 (Wheme confirmed, TBG suspected, one more to find). Do you think there are more than 4?

actually wtf how do you think 3 is every acceptable here
do you not realize you're in a 25p? Do you think this is a 13p?

I don't know enough about the math of games to know how many there normally are. 5 or 6 seems like way too many to me but I'll take your word for it.

[Lalendra]

Are there only two scum? Because it seems to me I have one more to find.

that was my point. you said were too busy looking for scum to defend yourself/. Wondering when the scumhunting was gonna start?

Do you have an actual question or are you just going to nitpick me to death?

Sure, thoughts on the leading wagons?

Lalendra(7) ~ Hopkirk(23), Ausuka(4), PenguinPower(23), Tchill13(43), Wavemode(3), JarJarDrinks(54), Ankamius(3)
- Wrong. I'm town. I'm starting to think Tchill might be the scum on my wagon, not sure about the rest. I really think JJD is town at this point, I'd like to think Wave is but I'm not good enough at setup spec to figure out the odds of that. Pretty certain PP is town as he was the counterwagon to Wheme. No idea about Ankamius or Ausuka, though Ausuka could be scum as well as she just seems ...off from the other games I've played with her.
Texcat(3) ~ Creature(63), Scioness Sajj(15), TehBrawlGuy(27)
- Pretty sure Tex is town based on the fact that TBG is my main scumread, and Sajj is another scumread.
Myloninja13(2) ~ Dunnstral(6), Texcat(9)
- I haven't been able to sort Mylo all game but if he's scum active lurking, I'm almost impressed.
Dunnstral(2) ~ Golden Robster(37), Myloninja13(6)
- I have waffled back and forth on Dunn but I'm not sure enough about scum!dunn to vote or engage there until TBG is lynched.
TehBrawlGuy(1) ~ Lalendra(9)
- SERIOUSLY HOW IS NO ONE ELSE VOTING HERE
Creature(1) ~ Kublai Khan(19)
- I really think Creature is town this game and so is KK.

[Lalendra]

Ausuka could be scum as well as she just seems ...off from the other games I've played with her.

Fake town slip?

How so?

[Lalendra]

You see, my problem with this statement is you're cherrypicking which of Fl's reads are accurate. You can't say that one read is accurate and deny the accuracy of another without reason

Of course I can. Wheme flipped scum and I know I'm town. That's my reason. And as I said, FL scumreading TBG is only one of my reasons; I believe he was correct about TBG, largely because I came to the same conclusion myself, and him being killed for that seems logical to me.

[Lalendra]

Okay, why do you expect 3 scum?

please answer this, @lalendra

I already did.

[Lalendra]

I've never seen lalendra show great skills at fighting off her lynch. I can see her as scum saying "she won't fight" then acting like she has no clue whats going on the game. Thats what you do when you dont know how to methodically defend yourself.

So what you're saying is that it's not possible for town to not know how to defend themselves when they are getting run up?
If I didn't consistently scumread other people for doing it I'd self-vote to get this over with and let you guys get on with finding actual scum.

[Lalendra]

According to Gamma, 5 or 6. I think I remember reading that you can divide the number of players by 7.5 to get the number of scum, so that would mean 21 / 7.5 = 2.8, or 3. I don't get overly invested in setup spec so I don't really care. As far as I'm concerned, I have two, there are more to be sought out and getting TBG's lynch would yield enough information to start looking for the 3rd, and so on from there.

[Lalendra]

I don't understand what's confusing.

In 3822, I said I thought there were 3 scum.

In 3855, I reiterated that.

I just did the math to explain why I think that.

Other people don't agree.

Does that answer your question?

[Lalendra]

If I didn't consistently scumread other people for doing it I'd self-vote to get this over with and let you guys get on with finding actual scum.

Can someone explain how this could possibly come from a town perspective?

Tell me if I'm misinterpreting:

"I would self-vote and get myself lynched just to get this day over with.

But the reason I'm not gonna do that is because people might scumread me for it .... In which case ... they'll vote for me ... which I would then care about because .... "

My point is not "I'm not going to do it because I would get scumread for it." My point is "I'm not going to do it because it's anti-town and something that I don't like in other people, and doing it myself would be hypocritical."

pedit @ Gamma: I know FL was scumreading me. I never said his reads were perfect. Just that I think he was killed for being on the right track.

[Lalendra]

you refuse to defend yourself. You claim its because "you dont know how" youre helpless town. I dont buy that. Town SHOULD at least try to fight back. Then there's the self vote threat....

How would you like me to defend myself? I explained my reasoning for thinking TBG is scum, how many scum I think there are and why, why I think FL was killed...I'm explaining my logic for every stance I've taken. I don't have "reasoning" to explain why I'm town other than by saying that I'm town. If everyone is confbiased at this point and refuses to believe me, then that's not my problem. I just think it's sad that we're wasting time here when we could be lynching TBG and finding the rest of the scum team (whether it's 1, or 3, or whatever).

[Lalendra]

I guess I shouldn't say it's not my problem, because it clearly IS my problem because I'm probably getting mislynched yet-fucking-again.

[Lalendra]

I did actually forget she was IC so thank you for the reminder.

I am defending myself the best I can, I'm not calculating the way to do it. I am attempting to answer questions as they are presented and be as transparent as possible with my thinking. It's not methodical or subversive. I regularly get reminded that I'm no good at the game so thanks for that as well. I do, however, have to disagree with the statement that I am disengaged. I am reading the game thoroughly and doing my best. I may come off as a "lurker" because I only jump in and say something when I feel that I have something to say, I don't post just to post, nor am I capable of breaking setups or figuring out the scum master plan. I am simply here, doing my best, trying to have fun, like everyone else.

p-edit: My opinion right now is that apparently, I am just not a very good player, and for some reason people seem to confuse being scum and being a less-than-optimal player for the same thing. I am also getting frustrated that everyone is so convinced I am scum that they are taking everything I say as evidence of that. So I guess I'll just sit back and enjoy watching you all go back to square one tomorrow.

[Lalendra]

I did actually forget she was IC so thank you for the reminder.

I am defending myself the best I can, I'm not calculating the way to do it. I am attempting to answer questions as they are presented and be as transparent as possible with my thinking. It's not methodical or subversive. I regularly get reminded that I'm no good at the game so thanks for that as well. I do, however, have to disagree with the statement that I am disengaged. I am reading the game thoroughly and doing my best. I may come off as a "lurker" because I only jump in and say something when I feel that I have something to say, I don't post just to post, nor am I capable of breaking setups or figuring out the scum master plan. I am simply here, doing my best, trying to have fun, like everyone else.

p-edit: My opinion right now is that apparently, I am just not a very good player, and for some reason people seem to confuse being scum and being a less-than-optimal player for the same thing. I am also getting frustrated that everyone is so convinced I am scum that they are taking everything I say as evidence of that. So I guess I'll just sit back and enjoy watching you all go back to square one tomorrow.

square 1? we have a scum flip. thats not square one. I don't see why you're not attacking other people's cases and pointing out flaws against you. They can't all be good cases if you're actually town. The lack to do what i just mentioned screams scum. It's not hard to do that. Nobody is accusing you of being bad. You just lurk. I've yet to see a NATURAL read from you that looks too in depth, a hallmark of town lalendra. Thats my sole main case against you backed up by the fact hop and flavor also agree that you're scum and i thought flavor was kind of familiar with you isn't he?

Do you have a "case" other than that you disagree with my playstyle this game? Correct, having a scumflip isn't square one, but it is when everyone is studiously ignoring the OBVIOUS scum in TBG which was pointed to by said scum flip. No one has pointed out why my case against TBG is incorrect, they have merely ignored it completely, which leads me to believe that scum are still protecting him. Flavor is also familiar with me, you're right; however, he was wrong here, and so are you.

[Lalendra]

It is not justified because the fact that I frequently have reads that are "too well thought out" (?) is not something that I couldn't fake as scum. In fact, it would be easier as scum to fake a townread that was too well thought out, or a scumread that is largely based on WIFOM and nitpicking, than it is to find actual scum as town, in my opinion. I assume that Hop and FL had similar reasons to yours for misreading me, but neither of them have really elaborated on their reasoning so I can't dispute what I don't know.

[Lalendra]

If "half the game" scumreads TBG as tchill says, why am I the only one voting him?

[Lalendra]

The combination of his TR on TBG, plus that damning bit about him not being sure what to say as scum (combined with his earlier Beetlejuicing, and the fact that I'm clearly not getting my TBG lynch today) makes me okay with this Lynch.

VOTE: Myloninja13

Pedit: TBG alluding to a PL on Mylo, not voting, calling him town and then blatantly trying to start a counterwagon makes me feel even better about this vote.

[Lalendra]

VOTE: lalendra

Mylo is still scum.

Dafuq

[Lalendra]

Oh right, there's still that PP wagon no one wants to talk about.

I don't think PP is scum based on the fact that he was a counterwagon to now-confscum.

[Lalendra]

PenguinPower (5) - EspeciallyTheLies (1996), Myloninja13 (2437), WhemeStar (2930), Scioness Sajj (3255), Vaxkiller (3290)

These were the people on the penguin Power Wagon when Wheme I was hammered. I'd like to give creature a pass for switching to the Wheme wagon but he held out until the last minute and the hammer may just have been for Town cred.

[Lalendra]

VT.

[Lalendra]

I don't like the fact that creature is Town reading everyone I'm scum reading, and vice versa.

[Lalendra]

Nor does he look very good in my revaluation of the penguin Power Wagon, considering that he stayed off of Wheme's wagon until the last possible moment and then jumped on to hammer it for Town cred.

[Lalendra]

VOTE: Creature

[Lalendra]

Is that forced or do you have a reason?

I already explained my reasons.

[Lalendra]

People saying I'm naked voting need to consider the fact that I laid out my reasoning prior to my vote, just not in the same post. It's pretty simple to see the progression.

[Lalendra]

Ding dong, you're all wrong, have fun tomorrow